[NTG-context] doifnumberelse
The macro \doifnumberelse is not behaving as I would have expected
from the description in Taco Hoekwater's article Context System
Macros: part 1: General macros.
There I read:
The next macro executesa command depending of the outcome of a test
on numerals.
\doifnumberelse {string} {then ...} {else ...}
This text suggest that the the test is on whether string as a whole
is a number (taken as having digits 0123456789 only, I presume) of
contains nondigits and thus isn't a number.
However, it seems the macro tests on the first character only.
Below follows a minimal example, the context version is:
ConTeXt ver: 2010.02.18 14:48 MKIV fmt: 2010.2.20 int: english/
english
% test result of \doifnumberelse
\def\test#1{#1 is \doifnumberelse{#1}{a number}{not a number}\crlf}
\starttext
\test{1} % result: 1 is a number
\test{a} % result: a is not a number
\test{1a} % result: 1a is a number
\test{a1} % result: a1 is not a number
\stoptext
Hans van der Meer
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Re: [NTG-context] doifnumberelse
Hans van der Meer wrote: This text suggest that the the test is on whether string as a whole is a number (taken as having digits 0123456789 only, I presume) of contains nondigits and thus isn't a number. However, it seems the macro tests on the first character only. The wiki page has that remark added as a corrigendum to the article. Best wishes, Taco ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
[NTG-context] no protrusion for hyphen ??
Hi,
I have read there were troubles with |-| in MkIV last year.
I found another one: the hyphen set by |-| doesn't get protruded.
See example below, please:
\startluacode
fonts.protrusions.vectors['stpure'] = {
[0x002D] = { 0, 0.50}, -- hyphen
}
fonts.protrusions.classes['stwpure'] = {
vector = 'stpure', factor = 1
}
\stopluacode
\definefontfeature[default][default]
[mode=node,protrusion=stwpure,script=latn]% extend=2,slant=.2,
\usetypescript[postscript]
\definetypeface[postscript][rm][serif][times][default]
\setupbodyfont[postscript,18pt]
\setupalign[line,block,hanging]
\showframe
\starttext
\dorecurse{13}{test } test|-|text test
\dorecurse{13}{test } test- text test
\stoptext
Steffen
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Re: [NTG-context] Super- and sub-script in text mode, or, fonts in math mode
Hi Wolfgang,
Thanks, that gets me closer (though \highlow and \lowhigh result in
undefined control sequence here).
However, the superscripted text is not reduced in size at all. This seems
to be XeTeX-specific, as using PDFTeX works fine. The same issue arises
using \small{} in XeTeX, whether standing alone or in combination with
\high{}.
Some light could be shed on this by observing that *all* text produced by
XeTeX, when in comparison with PDFTeX, looks like has gone through \small.
I suppose this is possible as I note that \small can't be applied
recursively (i.e. \small{\small{x}} == \small{x} ).
Thoughts?
James
On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 10:02 PM, Wolfgang Schuster
schuster.wolfg...@googlemail.com wrote:
Am 02.03.10 22:58, schrieb James Fisher:
Hi,
A minor problem: I'm trying to place superscripted text in the text body
-- things like '2^nd March'. I can't see anything like 2{\sup nd}, so my
only known solution at the moment is math mode: $2^{nd}$. Despite this not
being 'math', I don't really have an aversion to it. However, there's a
problem with it: the superscripted text appears in italic Computer Modern.
I'm using Gentium Book Basic as my body font, using XeTeX. The Gentium
typeface is used perfectly everywhere, including the '2' in '2^nd', with the
exception of the superscripted text.
So what solutions are to hand? Is there either (1) super/sub commands in
text mode, or (2) a way of fixing this in math mode?
(Also, would this be a problem with ConTeXt or with XeTeX?)
a\high{x}b\low{x}c\highlow{x}{y}d\lowhigh{x}{y}
Wolfgang
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Re: [NTG-context] no protrusion for hyphen ??
On Mar 3, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Steffen Wolfrum wrote: Hi, I have read there were troubles with |-| in MkIV last year. I found another one: the hyphen set by |-| doesn't get protruded. Why do you need this |-| hyphen? Thomas ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] no protrusion for hyphen ??
Am 03.03.2010 um 13:31 schrieb Thomas A. Schmitz:
On Mar 3, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
Hi,
I have read there were troubles with |-| in MkIV last year.
I found another one: the hyphen set by |-| doesn't get protruded.
Why do you need this |-| hyphen?
For hyphenation!
Just try yourself: with - instead of |-| there is no hyphenation for
test-text:
\startluacode
fonts.protrusions.vectors['stpure'] = {
[0x002D] = { 0, 0.50}, -- hyphen
}
fonts.protrusions.classes['stwpure'] = {
vector = 'stpure', factor = 1
}
\stopluacode
\definefontfeature[default][default]
[mode=node,protrusion=stwpure,script=latn]% extend=2,slant=.2,
\usetypescript[postscript]
\definetypeface[postscript][rm][serif][times][default]
\setupbodyfont[postscript,18pt]
\setupalign[line,block,hanging]
\showframe
\starttext
\dorecurse{13}{test } test|-|text test
\dorecurse{13}{test } test-text test
\dorecurse{13}{test } test- text test
\stoptext
Steffen
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Re: [NTG-context] no protrusion for hyphen ??
On Mar 3, 2010, at 1:49 PM, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
For hyphenation!
Just try yourself: with - instead of |-| there is no hyphenation for
test-text:
\startluacode
fonts.protrusions.vectors['stpure'] = {
[0x002D] = { 0, 0.50}, -- hyphen
}
fonts.protrusions.classes['stwpure'] = {
vector = 'stpure', factor = 1
}
\stopluacode
\definefontfeature[default][default]
[mode=node,protrusion=stwpure,script=latn]% extend=2,slant=.2,
\usetypescript[postscript]
\definetypeface[postscript][rm][serif][times][default]
\setupbodyfont[postscript,18pt]
\setupalign[line,block,hanging]
\setbreakpoints[compound]
\showframe
\starttext
\dorecurse{13}{test } test|-|text test
\dorecurse{13}{test } test-text test
\dorecurse{13}{test } test- text test
\stoptext
And see
http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20071214.090643.99a01996.en.html
Thomas
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[NTG-context] including xml files
Hi all,
what is the recommended way of including an xml tree from one file in
another? Right now I'm stuck with the following
\startxmlsetups xml:inc
\xmlprocessfile{inc}{\xmlatt{#1}{file}}{}
\stopxmlsetups
combined with inc file=inc.xml/ in the xml source. But although the
content of inc.xml is processed the headings it contains don't show up
in the toc (there _is_ an entry for them and a page reference as well
but no title).
Personally, I'd prefer some include method like file entities (!ENTITY
inc SYSTEM inc.xml) but they don't seem to work.
Thanks for any suggestions,
Philipp
--
() ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments
pgpekPieH5eAv.pgp
Description: PGP signature
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Re: [NTG-context] Super- and sub-script in text mode, or, fonts in math mode
Am 03.03.10 13:04, schrieb James Fisher: Hi Wolfgang, Thanks, that gets me closer (though \highlow and \lowhigh result in undefined control sequence here). \hilo and \lohi Wolfgang ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] no protrusion for hyphen ??
Am 03.03.2010 um 14:04 schrieb Thomas A. Schmitz:
On Mar 3, 2010, at 1:49 PM, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
For hyphenation!
Just try yourself: with - instead of |-| there is no hyphenation for
test-text:
\startluacode
fonts.protrusions.vectors['stpure'] = {
[0x002D] = { 0, 0.50}, -- hyphen
}
fonts.protrusions.classes['stwpure'] = {
vector = 'stpure', factor = 1
}
\stopluacode
\definefontfeature[default][default]
[mode=node,protrusion=stwpure,script=latn]% extend=2,slant=.2,
\usetypescript[postscript]
\definetypeface[postscript][rm][serif][times][default]
\setupbodyfont[postscript,18pt]
\setupalign[line,block,hanging]
\setbreakpoints[compound]
\showframe
\starttext
\dorecurse{13}{test } test|-|text test
\dorecurse{13}{test } test-text test
\dorecurse{13}{test } test- text test
\stoptext
And see
http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20071214.090643.99a01996.en.html
Wow ... 2007.12.14 :o)
Thank you Thomas!
Steffen
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[NTG-context] Occasional words sticking out from flush-right
Hi,
I'm experiencing an issue where, when the width of a block of text is small,
the occasional word sticks out from the otherwise flush right. I've
previously seen an example of this in an image on the contextgarden wiki,
but now can't find it. To reproduce what I mean, compile this with Mark IV:
\mainlanguage[en]
\usetypescript[palatino]
\setupbodyfont[palatino,11pt]
\setuppapersize[A4][A4]
\setuphead[title][header=empty]
\starttext
\title{Personal statement}
\startcolumns[n=2]
This heavily-hyphenated
jauntily-formatted
flush-left
flush-right
justified-text
paragraph set in
a two-column layout and
subtly-quirky-but-never-offensive
Palatino shouldn't produce
out-of-flush
sticking-out-like-a-sore-thumb
words from the
flush-right.
\stopcolumns
\stoptext
In this example, the string 'sticking-out-like-a-sore-thumb' sticks out to
approx 3mm from the right edge of the paper. In this situation, I would
much prefer that that string is hyphenated, using one of the hyphens already
in the string.
Based on one other test (in which my text was far less hyphenated than the
above), it seems that the hyphenation algorithm refuses to hyphenate strings
of words that are already hyphenated. Is this true? If so, is it
deliberate? And how do I turn it off? (And do other people agree with me
that it's awfully ugly?)
Best
James Fisher
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Re: [NTG-context] Super- and sub-script in text mode, or, fonts in math mode
That's better. Also, for the record, I've been working with Mark IV today, and LuaTeX doesn't seem to have XeTeX's problem with \small. On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 2:07 PM, Wolfgang Schuster schuster.wolfg...@googlemail.com wrote: Am 03.03.10 13:04, schrieb James Fisher: Hi Wolfgang, Thanks, that gets me closer (though \highlow and \lowhigh result in undefined control sequence here). \hilo and \lohi Wolfgang ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___ ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] Occasional words sticking out from flush-right
Am 03.03.10 20:19, schrieb James Fisher:
Hi,
I'm experiencing an issue where, when the width of a block of text is
small, the occasional word sticks out from the otherwise flush right.
I've previously seen an example of this in an image on the
contextgarden wiki, but now can't find it. To reproduce what I mean,
compile this with Mark IV:
\mainlanguage[en]
\usetypescript[palatino]
\setupbodyfont[palatino,11pt]
In this case you don't need \usetypescript.
\setuppapersize[A4][A4]
\setuphead[title][header=empty]
\starttext
\title{Personal statement}
\startcolumns[n=2]
This heavily-hyphenated
jauntily-formatted
flush-left
flush-right
justified-text
paragraph set in
a two-column layout and
subtly-quirky-but-never-offensive
Palatino shouldn't produce
out-of-flush
sticking-out-like-a-sore-thumb
words from the
flush-right.
\stopcolumns
\stoptext
In this example, the string 'sticking-out-like-a-sore-thumb' sticks
out to approx 3mm from the right edge of the paper. In this
situation, I would much prefer that that string is hyphenated, using
one of the hyphens already in the string.
Based on one other test (in which my text was far less hyphenated than
the above), it seems that the hyphenation algorithm refuses to
hyphenate strings of words that are already hyphenated. Is this
true? If so, is it deliberate? And how do I turn it off? (And do
other people agree with me that it's awfully ugly?)
Add \setbreakpoints[compound] to your file.
Wolfgang
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[NTG-context] rsfs font problem with MKIV
Hi,
I followed http://wiki.contextgarden.net/rsfs and compile the sample
file in this page with MKIV and got the following error:
! Undefined control sequence.
\scr -\fam \purefamily
{scriptfamily}
l.18 ${\scr
ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ}$
?
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Re: [NTG-context] MetaPost bug? in MKIV
I hate to beat a dead horse, but I want to understand this for certain. Is the consensus that graph.mp is incompatible with MKIV? If so, are there any plans to make it compatible? After all, graph.mp is part of the base MP distribution. Troy ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] MetaPost bug? in MKIV
Am 03.03.10 21:21, schrieb Troy Henderson: I hate to beat a dead horse, but I want to understand this for certain. Is the consensus that graph.mp is incompatible with MKIV? If so, are there any plans to make it compatible? After all, graph.mp is part of the base MP distribution. \usemodule[graph]? (this loads graph.mp) Wolfgang ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] Occasional words sticking out from flush-right
Certainly works -- thanks Wolfgang.
Stymies me how people on this mailing list know this stuff -- even a Google
search for setbreakpoints, assuming I knew the command in advance, returns
nada.
James
On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Wolfgang Schuster
schuster.wolfg...@googlemail.com wrote:
Am 03.03.10 20:19, schrieb James Fisher:
Hi,
I'm experiencing an issue where, when the width of a block of text is
small, the occasional word sticks out from the otherwise flush right. I've
previously seen an example of this in an image on the contextgarden wiki,
but now can't find it. To reproduce what I mean, compile this with Mark IV:
\mainlanguage[en]
\usetypescript[palatino]
\setupbodyfont[palatino,11pt]
In this case you don't need \usetypescript.
\setuppapersize[A4][A4]
\setuphead[title][header=empty]
\starttext
\title{Personal statement}
\startcolumns[n=2]
This heavily-hyphenated
jauntily-formatted
flush-left
flush-right
justified-text
paragraph set in
a two-column layout and
subtly-quirky-but-never-offensive
Palatino shouldn't produce
out-of-flush
sticking-out-like-a-sore-thumb
words from the
flush-right.
\stopcolumns
\stoptext
In this example, the string 'sticking-out-like-a-sore-thumb' sticks out to
approx 3mm from the right edge of the paper. In this situation, I would
much prefer that that string is hyphenated, using one of the hyphens already
in the string.
Based on one other test (in which my text was far less hyphenated than the
above), it seems that the hyphenation algorithm refuses to hyphenate strings
of words that are already hyphenated. Is this true? If so, is it
deliberate? And how do I turn it off? (And do other people agree with me
that it's awfully ugly?)
Add \setbreakpoints[compound] to your file.
Wolfgang
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Re: [NTG-context] Occasional words sticking out from flush-right
On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 9:41 PM, James Fisher jameshfis...@gmail.com wrote: Certainly works -- thanks Wolfgang. Stymies me how people on this mailing list know this stuff -- even a Google search for setbreakpoints, assuming I knew the command in advance, returns nada. So why don't you grep in base/* ? -- luigi ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
[NTG-context] Using XeTeX results in: ! Undefined control sequence. \PDFversion -1.\the \pdfminorversion
Somewhere in my twists and turns to get Mark IV working today, it appears XeTeX has been broken. Running `texexec --xtx' on any ConTeXt file results in: ! Undefined control sequence. \PDFversion -1.\the \pdfminorversion All I've been able to find out is that these macros are something to do with PDFTeX. I really don't know where to turn now. I'm running: XeTeX 3.1415926-2.2-0.9995.2 (Web2C 7.5.6) TeXExec | version 6.2.1 - 1997-2009 - PRAGMA ADE/POD MTXrun | current version: 2010.03.02 12:34 ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] Occasional words sticking out from flush-right
I suppose because (1) The word 'breakpoint' didn't come to mind (2) I'm used to consulting documentation rather than source code in the first instance (3) I've never worked in Turing tarpits before (4) Grepping 'breakpoint' as suggested doesn't turn up anything obvious in any case -- about 100 instances any of which could be a lead. I'm getting the impression that there's no real-world distinction between ConTeXt users and ConTeXt developers. James On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 8:44 PM, luigi scarso luigi.sca...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 9:41 PM, James Fisher jameshfis...@gmail.com wrote: Certainly works -- thanks Wolfgang. Stymies me how people on this mailing list know this stuff -- even a Google search for setbreakpoints, assuming I knew the command in advance, returns nada. So why don't you grep in base/* ? -- luigi ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___ ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] Occasional words sticking out from flush-right
On 03.03.2010 22:41, ntg-context-requ...@ntg.nl wrote: Stymies me how people on this mailing list know this stuff -- even a Google search for setbreakpoints, assuming I knew the command in advance, returns nada. This all is sacred knowledge, for devoted seekers :o) (Arthur, what about your church of TeX?) Vyatcheslav ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] Occasional words sticking out from flush-right
(Arthur, what about your church of TeX?) I deny everything. Arthur ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] rsfs font problem with MKIV
On Wed, 3 Mar 2010, Mehdi Omidali wrote: Hi, I followed http://wiki.contextgarden.net/rsfs and compile the sample file in this page with MKIV and got the following error: Those instructions only work for MKII. I am not sure how to incorporate RSFS with MKIV. Unicode only has type of math script letters. Aditya ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] Occasional words sticking out from flush-right
On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 10:19 PM, James Fisher jameshfis...@gmail.com wrote: I'm getting the impression that there's no real-world distinction between ConTeXt users and ConTeXt developers. true , in some sense. I mean that to use ConTeXt at its full potential one must write his own setups and macros and the best source is the in base/* . TeX is a (macro) programming language so with TeX means with a program written in TeX . ConTeXt is a TeX format that offers a powerful way to program in TeX (and with mkiv we also have a classical language like Lua) but user is expected to have an active role and cook his own solution --- ConTeXt is like Lego . On other side, there is only one ConTeXt developer --- Hans Hagen --- and this model of development is ok in this context because otherwise things can become too much messes ( eg conflicts between LaTeX packages) because TeX is not a traditional language and because digital typography is not a traditional computer science discipline . -- luigi ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] setbreakpoints
Hi Wolfgang, To be serious, what \setbreakpoints[] do? I want to wikify this command. Vyatcheslav ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] Occasional words sticking out from flush-right
Well, it's reassuring that people can at least admit this is a closed community. (But aren't churches meant to evangelize?) For using ConTEXt, no TEX-- programming skills and no technical background are needed. (http://wiki.contextgarden.net/What_is_ConTeXt) So why don't you grep in base/* ? (Luigi; I appreciate the advice but a bit of a contradiction methinks) Also, re there is only one ConTeXt developer --- Hans Hagen: I'd suggest a few reasons for this are: (1) in order to develop on a project, you first need a the high-level appreciation of the system that comes from documentation (2) ConTeXt does not have any revision control system that I can see (the only source code browser seem to be http://source.contextgarden.net/ which looks entirely custom); all I can find is the SVN of the in-progress manual (3) The low-level macro documentation at http://texshow.contextgarden.net/is a start, but: (i) instead of a custom system with basic editing, a modern documentation system (I'm thinking of http://sphinx.pocoo.org/ used for the *fantastic* documentation of the Python library) would be more productive, and (ii) this documentation is completely non-structured, being just an alphabetical list. (This from the community that came up with literate programming?) Also, just having one developer is not at all anything to celebrate, and no, this model of development is not OK. I wouldn't say it's a model for development at all. Other projects manage just fine without naming conflicts. Admittedly this is with the amazingly obvious concept of namespacing, which TeX doesn't have -- though I've just been reading an article http://www.tug.org/TUGboat/Articles/tb27-0/neugebauer.pdf on namespacing in http://www.extex.org/. James On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 9:53 PM, Arthur Reutenauer arthur.reutena...@normalesup.org wrote: (Arthur, what about your church of TeX?) I deny everything. Arthur ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___ ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] Occasional words sticking out from flush-right
On Wed, 3 Mar 2010, James Fisher wrote: Also, re there is only one ConTeXt developer --- Hans Hagen: I'd suggest a few reasons for this are: (1) in order to develop on a project, you first need a the high-level appreciation of the system that comes from documentation MkII is fairly well documented. See http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Official_ConTeXt_Documentation MkIV is only documented at http://www.pragma-ade.com/general/manuals/mk.pdf. Part of the reason is that it is still changing. The documentation is not perfect, but is huge (more than 1000 pages last time I checked). Saying that ConTeXt is undocumented in not fair, IMO. (2) ConTeXt does not have any revision control system that I can see (the only source code browser seem to be http://source.contextgarden.net/ which looks entirely custom); all I can find is the SVN of the in-progress manual git clone http://dl.contextgarden.net/distribution/git/ Hans does not use a public version control system. The above repository is a daily snapshot of ConTeXt files. (3) The low-level macro documentation at http://texshow.contextgarden.net/is a start, but: (i) instead of a custom system with basic editing, a modern documentation system (I'm thinking of http://sphinx.pocoo.org/ used for the *fantastic* documentation of the Python library) would be more productive, and (ii) this documentation is completely non-structured, being just an alphabetical list. (This from the community that came up with literate programming?) The sources are fairly well documented. Just read the source files, or see http://foundry.supelec.fr/gf/project/modules/ for PDF output. The question of documentation has come up many times in the past. Everytime we conclude that we need a volunteer to do maintain the documentation, but so far no one has stepped forward (hint, hint). Aditya ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] Occasional words sticking out from flush-right
Right, to show I'm not just empty words, I've just spent ~90 minutes preparing the beginnings of some decent documentation. Presenting http://github.com/eegg/ConTeXt-doc : basically, I've: (1) wget'ed all the English HTML from the texshow documentation (2) converted it all to reStructuredText using html2rest.py ( http://bitbucket.org/djerdo/musette/src/tip/musette/html/html2rest.py) (3) plugged the result into a fresh installation of the Sphinx documentation system (4) Pushed the whole thing to a new github repo (including generated HTML so you can take a look without bothering to install Sphinx) To note: - Sphinx really is state-of-the-art. I suggest you spend a few minutes browsing http://docs.python.org/ to see what I think is 'good documentation.' It runs on reStructuredText, a powerful, purely semantic and readable (almost invisible) markup. - Revision control, people! I strongly encourage everyone to fork and push this repository. - There's a hella lot of documentation to do here. Most of the pages in texshow are just placeholders. There's also massive capabilities in something like Sphinx to organize the code documentation with sensible commentaries. - In my humble opinion, TeXies need to get out of the habit of 'self-documenting' TeX using TeX itself. TeX is not some replacement for all markup, it's for producing beautiful books (OK, and some presentations); in any case, this habit smacks of introversion. To address previous points in this thread: - Maybe I exaggerated a tad on how little documentation there is. - Why on earth is there a git repository that is just slave storage? That uses about 1% of its capabilities; it seems a terrible waste. So, thoughts? James On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 12:08 AM, Aditya Mahajan adit...@umich.edu wrote: On Wed, 3 Mar 2010, James Fisher wrote: Also, re there is only one ConTeXt developer --- Hans Hagen: I'd suggest a few reasons for this are: (1) in order to develop on a project, you first need a the high-level appreciation of the system that comes from documentation MkII is fairly well documented. See http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Official_ConTeXt_Documentation MkIV is only documented at http://www.pragma-ade.com/general/manuals/mk.pdf. Part of the reason is that it is still changing. The documentation is not perfect, but is huge (more than 1000 pages last time I checked). Saying that ConTeXt is undocumented in not fair, IMO. (2) ConTeXt does not have any revision control system that I can see (the only source code browser seem to be http://source.contextgarden.net/which looks entirely custom); all I can find is the SVN of the in-progress manual git clone http://dl.contextgarden.net/distribution/git/ Hans does not use a public version control system. The above repository is a daily snapshot of ConTeXt files. (3) The low-level macro documentation at http://texshow.contextgarden.net/is a start, but: (i) instead of a custom system with basic editing, a modern documentation system (I'm thinking of http://sphinx.pocoo.org/ used for the *fantastic* documentation of the Python library) would be more productive, and (ii) this documentation is completely non-structured, being just an alphabetical list. (This from the community that came up with literate programming?) The sources are fairly well documented. Just read the source files, or see http://foundry.supelec.fr/gf/project/modules/ for PDF output. The question of documentation has come up many times in the past. Everytime we conclude that we need a volunteer to do maintain the documentation, but so far no one has stepped forward (hint, hint). Aditya ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___ ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] Occasional words sticking out from flush-right
On Thu, 4 Mar 2010, James Fisher wrote: Right, to show I'm not just empty words, I've just spent ~90 minutes preparing the beginnings of some decent documentation. Presenting http://github.com/eegg/ConTeXt-doc : basically, I've: Interesting. (2) converted it all to reStructuredText using html2rest.py ( http://bitbucket.org/djerdo/musette/src/tip/musette/html/html2rest.py) The values in texwebshow are generated from xml files http://source.contextgarden.net/tex/context/interface/cont-en.xml - There's a hella lot of documentation to do here. Most of the pages in texshow are just placeholders. There's also massive capabilities in something like Sphinx to organize the code documentation with sensible commentaries. Someone will still need to *write* the details. That has been the biggest bane of ConTeXt documentation. Almost all documentation is written by Hans and Taco and currently they want to focus on development and advanced documentation, and not converting all documentation to an organized html. - In my humble opinion, TeXies need to get out of the habit of 'self-documenting' TeX using TeX itself. TeX is not some replacement for all markup, it's for producing beautiful books (OK, and some presentations); in any case, this habit smacks of introversion. In this case it is not a question of markup, but of the output format, and whether the source and the documentation are in sync or not. Basically, context sources are documented as %D documentation ... \tex code %D documentation \tex code In principle, we can replace the markup in the documentation to xml or an ascii markup. It is easy enough to extract the %D lines and post-process them by any tool that you like. The biggest advantage of using a pdf output is that we can show the output of code snippets. For example, \startbuffer some tex code \stopbuffer \typebuffer gives \getbuffer thereby ensuring that the documentation is showing the correct behavior. To do this in html requires additional context run, converting the output to png, and displaying the png (this is how the wiki treats context ... /context tags). - Why on earth is there a git repository that is just slave storage? That uses about 1% of its capabilities; it seems a terrible waste. Because ConTeXt has only 1 main developer :-) Aditya ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] Occasional words sticking out from flush-right
On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 3:35 AM, James Fisher jameshfis...@gmail.com wrote: - In my humble opinion, TeXies need to get out of the habit of 'self-documenting' TeX using TeX itself. TeX is not some replacement for all markup, it's for producing beautiful books (OK, and some presentations); I think that self-documenting in TeX is 20year olds now --- it started with Latex209 ,I believe. So, thoughts? Yes from http://sphinx.pocoo.org/ Sphinx is a tool that makes it easy to create intelligent and beautiful documentation but I believe that ConTeXt is better * Output formats: HTML (including Windows HTML Help) and LaTeX, for printable PDF versions Are you suggesting to use LaTeX to document ConTeXt source ? About model of development: one developer is not so strange afterall . In other situations maybe this is not adequate, in this situation actually it's the best choice (where for my experience actually goes from 10year ago until now). For example mkii is frozen while mkiv is at 50%, if we consider that luatex 0.50 is at 50%, and luatex 1.0 will be 100%: btw mkiv is really usable, not in some fuzzy alpha state (frozen is not a bad word : tex is frozen from ~1990, pdftex is cold, ie changes a little, luatex is hot) This model doesn't imply that you cannot contribute to the code base but only that all contributions need to be validate (and possible rejected) and integrate by developer,. You can also contribute with third part modules, but they are not in base code and in case of conflicts code base wins. There is no need for a public dcvs : for mkiv there is always one beta version, the last one. Errors will be fixed in next beta. This imply that you must be prepared to patch your macros/stylesheets to match with last version Patrick thinks that a public git is a good idea and me too, but one can always manage his personal dcvs --- which is a good idea to understand code evolution on a particularly subject (I believe the Arthur has an historical archive ) For comparison, luatex project is developed in traditional manner: svn, bug tracker, manual (in context mkii ): the code base is in C with target CWEB . You can think at luatex as low-level layer which development is driven by mkiv, a very high level layer, which development is influenced by luatex itself (a sort of negative feedback see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_theory) As I said the language and its semantic are particularly , almost unique. Nothing strange that there is an ad hoc model of development -- luigi ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
