[NTG-context] Re: Best source of ConTeXt documentation?
Hello again, Oh come on, this is completely crap. The people at PRAGMA (i.e. Hans) share ConTeXt, wich is the holy grail that PRAGMA is based on (besides the knowledge). It is such a generous gift to the community. Please think about if you write stuff like that. I realize better that you do Hans contibutions to the Open Source community and I never complained about the sharing of ConTeXt, which is indeed the best typesetting system I have seen. You are taking my comment into a completely different context, pun not intended! No, actually I am not. You wrote People at Pragma are willing to show off but not willing to share code and teach by example... Willing to show off - that is right. The talks etc. are really impressive (but more than that). but not willing to share code - this is, as you know, mostly wrong. How many thousands of lines do they share? How many lines do you share? ...and teach by example. There *are* a few examples online. Did you look at the magazines? Did you look at the pdftex manual? I just guess you did not find them. (Or know about.) There are already some styles in the ConTeXt wiki. And there are styles that come with the distribution. The discussion is not about styles, it is about examples and how-to. Styles are examples. Did you have a look? And yes, howtos are missing. [...] We are not talking about experience and or copy/paste, if you are assuming that I don't have the experience or that the guy that posted the initial message wants to copy and paste, again you are on the wrong track. You were talking about reverse engeneering. What is wrong about making up your own style and publish it? You obviously lack experience (which is not ment negative) (or are too unwilling to do so) in style design with ConTeXt, or you would do the first step and publish *your* styles somewhere, together with sources. Then you will find out that publishing source code is not always trivial. So my conclusion is something like this: write down your questions you have and we can fill in the gap. As long as people are only complaining and whining, nothing will change. Constructive criticism is much better than the messages you sent. And if we continue this conversation: please point out which styles you would like to see available. There too many documents at PRAGMA, so we might talk about different items. Patrick -- ConTeXt wiki: http://contextgarden.net texshow-web: http://texshow.contextgarden.net List archive: http://archive.contextgarden.net ___ ntg-context mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
[NTG-context] Re: Best source of ConTeXt documentation?
Hello Salman, The problem with normal users cooking up new styles is the lack of artistic abilities in some people (like me). But you will never gain artistic abilities by simple copy/paste. One can, obviously go thru the manual cover the cover, but if one does not have creative thinking, then creating professional looking styles would be hard. That is why, users like me really do not care if our documents look like everybody else's (just as long as they look professional). The ability to know how to program/use a text editor/use photoshop can only help you with the technical difficulties in making a professional cover and style. Not more. And of course, once we learn the tool, then making small changes here and there to make it look slightly different is no big deal. Each LaTeX document looks slighlty different. But overall they are extremely easy to classify as a LaTeX document. And why? The distances and parameters are all given so it looks right and there is no reason to change them. Patrick -- ConTeXt wiki: http://contextgarden.net texshow-web: http://texshow.contextgarden.net List archive: http://archive.contextgarden.net ___ ntg-context mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
[NTG-context] Re: Best source of ConTeXt documentation?
Hello Paulo, Everyone learns a language by example, if you try to teach one you will see, even Patrick, when he was a baby learned his first language by example (real language), it is only natural, it is only human. To argue the contrary is just lack of experience in teaching. Right, but what do you want to say? Typography and design is not a matter of learning a language. Patrick -- ConTeXt wiki: http://contextgarden.net texshow-web: http://texshow.contextgarden.net List archive: http://archive.contextgarden.net ___ ntg-context mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] Bug report, \frac as redefined in m-newmat.tex
Hi Brooks
The following simple file works fine if I comment out the
\usemodule[newmat] line, but crashes if I put it in.
\usemodule[newmat]
\starttext
\placeformula
\startformula
\eqalign{\frac{1}{2} \cr}
\stopformula
\stoptext
ah ... the alignment lookahead problem, i think we can safely patch
\mathematics to catch lookahead as well as make frac more robust for
unwanted expansion
\usemodule[newmat]
\unexpanded\def\frac#1#2{\mathematics{\genfrac{}{}{}\donothing{#1}{#2}}}
\def\mathematics#1{\relax\ifmmode#1\else$#1$\fi}
\starttext
\placeformula
\startformula
\eqalign{\frac{1}{2}}
\stopformula
\stoptext
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Re: [NTG-context] Understanding registers command
Taco Hoekwater wrote: This looked suspiciously familiar. And indeed, my bib module has the same problem: % Hans, Wat is er mis met [pub][pubs]??? % Werkt absoluut niet! \definieerlijst[pubs][pubs] dunno ... it's not like register definitions \definelist [whatever] [key=value,...] \definelist [whatever] [cloned-from] [key=value,...] Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ ntg-context mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] PPCHTeX broken
Peter Münster wrote: On Mon, 2 Aug 2004, Tobias Burnus wrote: If I do a dvips -Ppdf test.dvi I get the following warning: dvips: Could not find figure file ./test-mpgraph.4000; continuing dvips: Could not find figure file ./test-mpgraph.3999; continuing dvips: Could not find figure file ./test-mpgraph.3998; continuing I don't see from the log whether you have them, but in any case a DVI file doesn't carry enough information, you need a Post Script or PDF file. Oh, excuse me, I didn't see, that the dvi depends on other files... Now I send a pdf file. With 2004.4.9 this works - well, the bonds are a bit randomly distributed but otherwise. Can you state a bit more clearly what should be different from the result you get? The result should be as in example 5.9 on page 1-18 of the manual (http://www.pragma-ade.com/general/manuals/mp-ch-en.pdf). I complied the same TeX-file with an older version (2003.1.31) and the result is ok (also attached as pdf). Now, temporally working with the old ConTeXt version, I try to substitute Atoms in a chair structure. Is this possible? The following example shows the situation a little bit clearer: \usemodule[pictex,chemic] \starttext \startchemical \chemical [SIX,B,Z] [a,b,c,d,e,f] \stopchemical \startchemical \chemical [CHAIR,B,Z] [a,b,c,d,e,f] % Z seems to be without effect here... \stopchemical \stoptext Cheers, Peter looks like there is some interference with pdf inclusion (quite hard to find reasonable compromised in handling offsets and bboxes); i'll look into it Hans -- - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ ntg-context mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
[NTG-context] bug fix for ppchtex
Hi,
Concerning the problem with mp graphics in ppchtex, change:
\def\pushMPdrawing
{\globalpushmacro\MPdrawingdata
\globallet\MPdrawingdata\empty}
\def\popMPdrawing
{\globalpopmacro\MPdrawingdata}
in supp-mps.tex (recompilt ormat) or put those def's in cont-new.tex (no
new format needed)
Hans
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Re: [NTG-context] bug fix for ppchtex
On Tue, 3 Aug 2004, Hans Hagen wrote:
Concerning the problem with mp graphics in ppchtex, change:
\def\pushMPdrawing
{\globalpushmacro\MPdrawingdata
\globallet\MPdrawingdata\empty}
\def\popMPdrawing
{\globalpopmacro\MPdrawingdata}
Thank you very much for your fast fix, it works!
Concerning my other PPCHTeX question:
Can you confirm, if atom substitution is possible or not in a
chair-structure?
Cheers, Peter
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[NTG-context] Re: Best source of ConTeXt documentation?
* Paulo Ney de Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Aug 03, 2004 11:21]:
Everyone learns a language by example...
What you should really be doing is asking specific questions to problems
you're having with ConTeXt on this list. I have gotten almost all my
questions answered by now.
nikolai
--
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::: born: Chicago, IL USA:: loc atm: Gothenburg, Sweden:::
::: page: www.pcppopper.org :: fun atm: gf,lps,ruby,lisp,war3 :::
main(){printf(linux[\021%six\012\0],(linux)[have]+fun-97);}
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Re: [NTG-context] bug fix for ppchtex
Peter Münster wrote:
On Tue, 3 Aug 2004, Hans Hagen wrote:
Concerning the problem with mp graphics in ppchtex, change:
\def\pushMPdrawing
{\globalpushmacro\MPdrawingdata
\globallet\MPdrawingdata\empty}
\def\popMPdrawing
{\globalpopmacro\MPdrawingdata}
Thank you very much for your fast fix, it works!
Concerning my other PPCHTeX question:
Can you confirm, if atom substitution is possible or not in a
chair-structure?
not sure about that, chairs are kind of special and hard coded, tobias may know since he's the ppchtex expert
Hans
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Re: [NTG-context] Re: Best source of ConTeXt documentation?
Nikolai Weibull wrote: * Paulo Ney de Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Aug 03, 2004 11:21]: Everyone learns a language by example... What you should really be doing is asking specific questions to problems you're having with ConTeXt on this list. I have gotten almost all my questions answered by now. ... and after that write MyWays, or add info to the wiki or write an article for tugboat or the maps or dtk or ... Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ ntg-context mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
[NTG-context] Problem with TeXexec
Good afternoon. I have just installed a new Linux system (SuSE 9.1 with teTeX) and the new ConTeXt (texexec version 4.3) -- in the same way as older one. But it doesn't work. It writes a following error message: ... sh: line1: cont-en: command not found ... This is pdfetex... ... ** ! End of file on the terminal ... why? I do wrong? How can I correct it? I tried to link cont-en to pdfetex, but I've still got the second error message. Moreover, the system tried to make the format file. Many thanks for your help. Michal Kvasnicka ___ ntg-context mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
[NTG-context] Metapost variable problem
Good afternoon. I am sorry that I bother you with this offtopic but I don't know where else I can ask. I want to prepare a better interface for my metapost macros. I want to use the record-like variables to store object information. But I don't know how to copy such records. More precisely, let's suppose I have string a.type; a.type:=ecicsqrt; string a.name; a.name:=indifference curve number 1; string a.A; a.A:=1; string a.B; a.B:=1; ... And I want to copy it to a record b. But b:=a; doesn't work (now b is equal to some unknown token a). Is there some simple way to do it, or have I to copy it manually like this: string b.type; b.type:=a.type; ... Many thanks for your help. With wishes of nice summer Michal Kvasnicka ___ ntg-context mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
[NTG-context] Re: Problem with TeXexec
Hello, I have just installed a new Linux system (SuSE 9.1 with teTeX) and the new ConTeXt (texexec version 4.3) -- in the same way as older one. But it doesn't work. It writes a following error message: ... sh: line1: cont-en: command not found ... This is pdfetex... try the mailinglist archive: http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20030316.182709.93dce502.html and http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20040621.072819.d34d1b4d.html does this help? Patrick -- ConTeXt wiki: http://contextgarden.net texshow-web: http://texshow.contextgarden.net List archive: http://archive.contextgarden.net ___ ntg-context mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] Problem with TeXexec
Michal Kvasnicka wrote: Good afternoon. I have just installed a new Linux system (SuSE 9.1 with teTeX) and the new ConTeXt (texexec version 4.3) -- in the same way as older one. But my suggestion is to remove suse tetex in favour of Texlive + (uptodate) context installation hints are in http://contextgarden.net/Linux_Installation compressed Texlive iso in http://www.tug.org/texlive/ Context from pragma ___ ntg-context mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] Re: Problem with TeXexec
Many thanks. I will read it and try. Many thanks once more to both of you for your prompt answer. M.K. ___ ntg-context mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] Metapost variable problem
On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 12:37:18 + Michal Kvasnicka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good afternoon. I am sorry that I bother you with this offtopic but I don't know where else I can ask. There is a mailing list for metafont (and metapost). To subscribe, e-mail: To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: subscribe metafont Michal Kvasnicka Is there some simple way to do it, or have I to copy it manually like this: string b.type; b.type:=a.type; ... direct assignment will definately not work. Some sort of automation based on the suffix names may be possible (using forsuffixes perhaps) but writing a dedicated macro is probably easiest. Greetings, Taco ___ ntg-context mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] Re: Best source of ConTeXt documentation?
Patrick, Maybe we should move this discussion off the list to not bother others that may not be so interested in it. What I am trying to say (answering your question) is that learning by example is natural to human behaviour and extremely efficient. If you attend any of my classes here in Berkeley you will see examples from begining to the end, no matter what the subject is: math or programming. Even with learned programmers, examples do work well, I took, for example (no pun intended) an MSDN CD for C++ I have here by my side, 80% os the space in the disk is taken by examples, the rest is shared between the software, SDK, and manuals ... You promptly assumed that the guy wanted to copy the examples at hand. I don't think that this is right! He may indeed end up copying it, but you can't assume it. Paulo Ney From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Aug 2 23:40:12 2004 From: Patrick Gundlach [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [NTG-context] Re: Best source of ConTeXt documentation? Hello Paulo, Everyone learns a language by example, if you try to teach one you will see, even Patrick, when he was a baby learned his first language by example (real language), it is only natural, it is only human. To argue the contrary is just lack of experience in teaching. Right, but what do you want to say? Typography and design is not a matter of learning a language. Patrick -- ConTeXt wiki: http://contextgarden.net texshow-web: http://texshow.contextgarden.net List archive: http://archive.contextgarden.net ___ ntg-context mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context ___ ntg-context mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
[NTG-context] Re: Best source of ConTeXt documentation?
Paulo, Maybe we should move this discussion off the list to not bother others that may not be so interested in it. They should use the killfile and fill it with my name (and erverything related) :-) Seriously: the question concerning ConTeXt documentation and examples is brought up on this list quite often. This is almost worth an faq entry (there is no faq yet btw.). So I think that this is a good place to stay until it is getting really of topic. Please see also the thread around http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20040622.145524.ddf3cdc8.html What I am trying to say (answering your question) is that learning by example is natural to human behaviour and extremely efficient. But not everything is only done with learning by example. Sometimes concise references are needed. If you attend any of my classes here in Berkeley you will see examples from begining to the end, no matter what the subject is: math or programming. Even with learned programmers, examples do work well, I took, for example (no pun intended) an MSDN CD for C++ I have here by my side, 80% os the space in the disk is taken by examples, the rest is shared between the software, SDK, and manuals ... OK, but we are only partly talking about programming languages and not at all of math. Even in math (depending on the subject) examples except for trivial ones can be worthless because the complexity of the subject. So what are we talking about? We are talking about ConTeXt, wich is: a) a macro package built on top of TeX b) a typesetting tool c) to some extent a design tool. (a tool to create desings) a) ConTeXt on the high level aspect is mentioned in all the documents out there. You can break down the documentation in different pieces: 1: ConTeXt is there to help the user to create structured documents (\section, \cite, ...). There is absolutely no typographic meaning to these commands that are used for structuring. The same would apply to structured xml documents. 2: ConTeXt gives you the ability to give formatting instructions to the system. This is done by commands like \setuphead and alike. 3: all the add-on features that are not strictly necessary for a typesetting job but makes live much easier (references ...) All af these need to be explained and yes, I agree with you here: examples on these are instructive and good. a, part two) TeX is a nasty language (did I say nasty? Yes I mean it the way, I have used *lots* of programming languages, but only few can compete with TeX in its ugliness and obscurity.) Doing programming tasks in TeX is no fun (unless your first name is Hans :-). And reading TeX programs is impossible for beginners. TeX has nothing to do in the examples we are talking about. So the learning by example documents should either be TeX-free or rated R. (or whatever). And I guess (that is my experience I have with my ConTeXt styles), there are a lot of places in these manuals where low level TeX contructs are used to make things work and look right. b) a typesetting tool. Typsetting is something far beyond trivial. And it is something that needs theoretical background and much experience. TeX is very good to hide typographical issues and does things right. But it cannot take away the need for experience. What do we gain from examples in source in this respect? Nothing at all. Users might think this looks nice, but when applying what they have found might not always be appropriate. What do we need then? Perhaps a document (micro)typograhy in ConTeXt. c) a design tool. Yes, and this is the worst part of what you ask for (source codes on how to create a design). A design is only good for one thing and cannot be copied. The one thing might be something big like coproate identity or as small as a single document (or household appliance). If it is copied, it loses much. Just like the endless same-looking power-point presentations, I have seen quite some documents, totally unrelated, with similar desings. Well, it reliefs one from using his brain, but does not make things better. - cook up your own design or let it alone. What kind of examples do we need? Perhaps some *small* examples covering only one technical aspect of our tools. E.g. transparencies in MetaFun and alike (see for example http://levana.de/context/layout/page.pdf and the source file http://levana.de/context/layout/page.tex ). You promptly assumed that the guy wanted to copy the examples at hand. I don't think that this is right! He may indeed end up copying it, but you can't assume it. OK, perhaps I was too eager to say he would do so. But I know that this will be done as soon as more examples for complex stuff is available. And no, copy paste is not always evil. Patrick (still wondering if we could just create a list of needed examples and fill in the gaps without reverse engineer original manuals) -- ConTeXt wiki: http://contextgarden.net
Re: [NTG-context] Bug report, \frac as redefined in m-newmat.tex
At 01:40 PM 8/2/2004, you wrote:
ah ... the alignment lookahead problem, i think we can safely patch
\mathematics to catch lookahead as well as make frac more robust for
unwanted expansion
\usemodule[newmat]
\unexpanded\def\frac#1#2{\mathematics{\genfrac{}{}{}\donothing{#1}{#2}}}
\def\mathematics#1{\relax\ifmmode#1\else$#1$\fi}
[...]
That fixes the problem on my end; thanks!
Will you be updating the defintions of \tfrac, \dfrac, and so forth in
m-newmat to match? I admit to not being too sure whether I think it's a
good idea to support using math constructs such as \frac outside of math
mode, but I do think that if one's going to do that, it's good to be
consistent and do it with the variants too.
- Brooks
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Re: [NTG-context] Bug report, \frac as redefined in m-newmat.tex
Brooks Moses wrote:
At 01:40 PM 8/2/2004, you wrote:
ah ... the alignment lookahead problem, i think we can safely patch
\mathematics to catch lookahead as well as make frac more robust for
unwanted expansion
\usemodule[newmat]
\unexpanded\def\frac#1#2{\mathematics{\genfrac{}{}{}\donothing{#1}{#2}}}
\def\mathematics#1{\relax\ifmmode#1\else$#1$\fi}
[...]
That fixes the problem on my end; thanks!
Will you be updating the defintions of \tfrac, \dfrac, and so forth in
m-newmat to match? I admit to not being too sure whether I think it's
a good idea to support using math constructs such as \frac
do they need patching? they don't use \mathematics afaik
Hans
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Re: [NTG-context] Bug report, \frac as redefined in m-newmat.tex
On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 12:14:29AM +0200, Hans Hagen Outside wrote:
Brooks Moses wrote:
That fixes the problem on my end; thanks!
Will you be updating the defintions of \tfrac, \dfrac, and so forth in
m-newmat to match? I admit to not being too sure whether I think it's
a good idea to support using math constructs such as \frac
do they need patching? they don't use \mathematics afaik
They don't need patching in the sense of fixing a bug, no -- it's more a
matter of consistency in behavior.
What I see is that there's a list of definitions for \frac, \dfrac,
\tfrac, and various other similar forms, all of which can be used in
math mode only, and do not use \mathematics.
Then, a couple of lines after that, there's the second definition for
\frac, which is the one that needed patching. This one, unlike the
first definition, is wrapped in \mathematics so that it can work outside
math mode.
So I'm wondering why only \frac has this second definition that allows
it to work outside of math mode. I would think that things should be
consistent -- either that all of the definitions in the first list
should be changed to use \mathematics, or that \frac should be returned
to the simpler version -- so that \tfrac is still simply \frac typeset
in text mode as one would expect it to be.
Even if they're all left in the current form, I'd think that the unused
definition of \frac in the first list should be removed.
My argument for simplifying \frac to take the \mathematics out of it is
that it is a math-mode construct that typesets its arguments in math
mode, and allowing it to be used outside of math mode encourages sloppy
TeXing. It also hides the point of transition to math mode, meaning
that x and \frac{1}{x} will typeset x differently, which strikes me as
confusing. I recognize that this is a very debatable position, though,
and that there are at the very least arguments for backwards
compatiblity that contradict it.
- Brooks
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