Re: [NTG-context] Bug report, \frac as redefined in m-newmat.tex

2004-08-04 Thread Hans Hagen
Hi Brooks,
Then, a couple of lines after that, there's the second definition for
\frac, which is the one that needed patching.  This one, unlike the
first definition, is wrapped in \mathematics so that it can work outside
math mode.
So I'm wondering why only \frac has this second definition that allows
it to work outside of math mode.  I would think that things should be
consistent -- either that all of the definitions in the first list
should be changed to use \mathematics, or that \frac should be returned
to the simpler version -- so that \tfrac is still simply \frac typeset
in text mode as one would expect it to be.
 

this has a historical reason; it was added because latex users expect 
\frac to be there and to work in text mode as well;

Even if they're all left in the current form, I'd think that the unused
definition of \frac in the first list should be removed.
 

well, just consider it not to be there; it should definitely not be 
mentioned in manuals -)

My argument for simplifying \frac to take the \mathematics out of it is
that it is a math-mode construct that typesets its arguments in math
mode, and allowing it to be used outside of math mode encourages sloppy
TeXing.  It also hides the point of transition to math mode, meaning
that x and \frac{1}{x} will typeset x differently, which strikes me as
confusing.  I recognize that this is a very debatable position, though,
and that there are at the very least arguments for backwards
compatiblity that contradict it.
 

if i remember right (maybe tobias burnus remembers more) it was mainly meant to be used in section titles; in such cases, when one sets a font  explicitly, math is often not set up accordingly and frac permits one to do at least fractions 

Hans   

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[NTG-context] new stuff for brave users

2004-08-04 Thread Patrick Gundlach
Dear ConTeXt users,

I have started another service. Please note that this is not finished
yet and might change or get out of service once in a while (I have no
experience with such a service). You can process your ConTeXt
documents online. Just point your browser to 

http://live.contextgarden.net

and type in your favourite ConTeXt document. Click on typeset and
you will be able to donwload the pdf file. Please report any errors
to me!

And again: this service is still some kind of beta. 


Patrick
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texshow-web:  http://texshow.contextgarden.net
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Re: [NTG-context] Re: new stuff for brave users

2004-08-04 Thread Vit Zyka
http://live.contextgarden.net
one thing to add: I'd appreciate any kind of comments, since I have
only tested it with safari and old versions of mozilla. If you think
that there is anything strange, don't hesitate to tell me! And don't
rely on your impression that others will do so, so there would no
need for feedback. 

Patrick
Hmmm. Contextgarden with texshow are great ideas and tools for making 
usage of ConTeXt easier. So I desided to fill some contents occasionally.

Two weeks ago and again two days ago I asked Patrick what to do if I 
want to write some macro description but the macro is not present in 
texshow. But no response I have received yet. So the above Patrick's 
annoucement is a bit funny for me ;-)

OK, I ask here in the list again, see bellow.
Cheers
Vit Zyka
-
 Hallo Patrick,
 i have noticed that the next group of macros is missing in the
 texshow-web:
 \definelayer[name][...,=,...]
 \setlayer[name][...,=,...]{text}
 Can you add them, please? Or there is another way how to do it?
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[NTG-context] Re: new stuff for brave users

2004-08-04 Thread Patrick Gundlach
Hello Vit,

 Two weeks ago and again two days ago I asked Patrick what to do if I
 want to write some macro description but the macro is not present in
 texshow. But no response I have received yet. So the above Patrick's
 annoucement is a bit funny for me ;-)

 OK, I ask here in the list again, see bellow.

Well, I have receieved your message, but was too busy on
context-live. Your message is still in my inbox and I will work on
texshow-web this week. Your suggestion is not that trivial, since I
have an automatic update scheme that is not able to look at new
entries. I will have to extend the program and do some testing.
 Sorry for the delay!

Patrick

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Re: [NTG-context] Re: new stuff for brave users

2004-08-04 Thread Hans Hagen
Vit Zyka wrote:
 i have noticed that the next group of macros is missing in the
 texshow-web:
 \definelayer[name][...,=,...]
 \setlayer[name][...,=,...]{text}
 Can you add them, please? Or there is another way how to do it?
i have to do that to the main file; since layers are relatively new i didn't do it yet, but i'll put it on my todo list -) 

Hans 

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Re: [NTG-context] Re: new stuff for brave users

2004-08-04 Thread Taco Hoekwater


 Two weeks ago and again two days ago I asked Patrick what to do if I 
 want to write some macro description but the macro is not present in 
 texshow. But no response I have received yet. So the above Patrick's 
 annoucement is a bit funny for me ;-)

This also raises another problem: what to do if the syntax definition is wrong?

The very first definition is wrong: \about's syntax  is 
\about [ref] 
not
\about {text} [ref]

I fixed that in the garden, but will that new definition be destroyed at the
next automatic update? (my change also didn't update the display, btw.)


-- 
groeten,

Taco
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[NTG-context] texshow-web

2004-08-04 Thread Patrick Gundlach
Hello Taco,

 This also raises another problem: what to do if the syntax
definition is wrong?

 The very first definition is wrong: \about's syntax  is 
   \about [ref] 
 not
   \about {text} [ref]

 I fixed that in the garden, but will that new definition be destroyed at the
 next automatic update? 

No, it won't. If it does, it it clearly an error. (I was a bit lying,
the update is semi automatic, my script gives me the choice of using
the changed entry on the webserver or the new one in cont-en.xml).

 (my change also didn't update the display, btw.)

This is clearly an error that should not happen. I'll look into it
this week.

Thanks for the report.

Patrick
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Re: [NTG-context] Re: new stuff for brave users

2004-08-04 Thread Vit Zyka
Patrick Gundlach wrote:
Hello Vit,
Well, I have receieved your message, but was too busy on
context-live. Your message is still in my inbox and I will work on
texshow-web this week. Your suggestion is not that trivial, since I
 ...
 Patrick
All right, I understand that.
  \definelayer[name][...,=,...]
  \setlayer[name][...,=,...]{text}

  Can you add them, please? Or there is another way how to do it?
 i have to do that to the main file; since layers are relatively new i 
 didn't do it yet, but i'll put it on my todo list -)
 Hans

Great!
Vit
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Re: [NTG-context] Re: new stuff for brave users

2004-08-04 Thread Hans Hagen
Taco Hoekwater wrote:
 

Two weeks ago and again two days ago I asked Patrick what to do if I 
want to write some macro description but the macro is not present in 
texshow. But no response I have received yet. So the above Patrick's 
annoucement is a bit funny for me ;-)
   

This also raises another problem: what to do if the syntax definition is wrong?
The very first definition is wrong: \about's syntax  is 
	\about [ref] 
not
	\about {text} [ref]

I fixed that in the garden, but will that new definition be destroyed at the
next automatic update? (my change also didn't update the display, btw.)
 

best send such patches to me, or maybe collect them as comment so that they can be fed back to me  

Hans 

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[NTG-context] Re: new stuff for brave users

2004-08-04 Thread Patrick Gundlach

[...]

I fixed that in the garden, but will that new definition be destroyed at the
next automatic update? (my change also didn't update the display, btw.)
  
 best send such patches to me, or maybe collect them as comment so that
 they can be fed back to me  Hans

I collect all the changes in texshow-web and could notify you once in
a while of the differences between the current cont-en.xml and
texshow-web.

Patrick
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[NTG-context] Re: new stuff for brave users

2004-08-04 Thread Patrick Gundlach
Hello Mojca,

 Here is what I wrote yesterday, but haven't sent yet :)
 Did I send this accidentaly ? :) :) :)

No, but my looking-forward-in-time-gadget sent me a copy of your
message ;-)

 It's a great service, it would just make sense to connect the wiki and
 code rendering, so that the code written would be automatically
 copy-pasted in the window (or any other mechanism to enable quick
 acces to the documents described in wiki).

Yes, I was already thinking about that (if I am right, then the
live... service was mainly for interactive content generation from
the wiki). But I am not sure yet what and how should be done. 

 Well done again,

thanks!

 * rendering image as an example of the effect of the code written there

 For example, if someone would write:
 [context]
 a couple of lines of context code
 [/context]

yes, this is a good idea. I have also thougth about sth. like
texcommand\setupframe/texcommand  that links to texshow-web and
presents the syntax definition. 

Patrick
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[NTG-context] Animation in slides (\presentationstep, metafun)

2004-08-04 Thread Mojca Miklavec
I would first like to apologise for this flooding of the mailing list 
with some questions I can't tackle with alone. It's just a mixture of 
opinions and questions I came accross in the last month while making 
first steps into ConTeXt and I wrote them all at once. I'll appreciate 
any suggestion, hint or solution to any of these problems.

***   ***   ***   ***   ***
After some failed experimets with \presentationstep (I'm still not sure
why it doesn't work) I've browsed through the archives a bit, but still
didn't find any satisfying and elegant solution for what I need.
1.) line-after-line
... just as what \presentationstep was intended for.
Is there an elegant way to achive this standard PowerPoint trick of
showing the content of the same page stepwise?
I've found a presentation of Patrick Gundlach (Keine Angst vor (runden
Klammern)), 22.1.02 with
\StartItem ... \StopItem,
and it more or less solves the problem, but for some non-expert, not 
reading the archive and without the need of this pretty, fascinating 
shadowed effect, some easier solution should be (and maybe already is) 
provided.

In http://www.sfu.ca/~cdlinkle/jan23.htm there's an example of a nice
ans simple usage in Prosper:
	\fromSlide{[slideNr]}{...text...}
makes the portion of text or graphics available only from a certain 
slide number on.
	\onlySlide{[slideNr]}{...text...})
makes the portion of text only on a certain slide

and it would be nice to be able to achive the same effect in ConTeXt 
with the same simplicity of the usage. Maybe it is possible already, but 
I'm looking for suggestions how (this feature should be a part of the 
standard distribution since it is often needed).

2.) filling-up a table
This is a more complicated example and probably playing with TeX may
be the only solution, but I'll ask anyway.
I need to make something similar as, say, multiplication table or a
table for dynamic programming calculation of minimum editing distance.
There is a n*m table, whose fields have to be filled step-by-step
(sometimes the last entries in bold or in red) on consecutive slides.
Copy-pasting and correcting the table ten or twenty times makes no sense.
I would be grateful on any suggestion about how to solve this problem.
3.) graphics manipulation
Sometimes not only the text alone, but also the graphics should change a 
bit.
	itdemos/internal/calculat/calculat.pdf
(without the first page) can explain exactly what I mean.

http://www.theorie.physik.uni-wuppertal.de/~rainer/talks/sample3.pdf
is also an example, although I believe I would stil prefer using 
PowerPoint (I never did until now) if I was forced to make something
similar in the way they did (using the same tools, tricks and complexity).

I think I would be able to solve this anyhow, but with way too much 
effort and without some dirty trick. Can please someone provide me some 
minimalistic example of how to do this in metaplay? It would also be 
nice to include it in metafun manual or at least put it into wiki.

4.) Page numbering
Suppose I have now my perfect presentation :) and I want to number the
pages or achieve some visual effects such as in any of the following:
general/manuals/example.pdf (dots on the bottom of the page)
pre-funny (dark red spot in the frame)
pre-colorful (bottom line)
Introduction `a ConTeXt, Denis Roegel, 29th May 02
How do I make the pages belonging together also possess the same page
number? (for example pages 2-9 of collect/present/pre-ntsd.pdf could
theoretically be assigned the same page number, 10-14 the second, 15-17
the third, ...)
In the above mentioned example in Prosper this kind of page numbering is 
solved exactly the way I like.

***   ***   ***   ***   ***
Thanks a lot,
Mojca Miklavec
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[NTG-context] ConTeXt vs. LaTeX

2004-08-04 Thread Mojca Miklavec
At the very first moment I saw some manuals I was highly impressed of
what ConTeXt was able to do and decided to switch from LaTeX to the new
typesetting system. I've put (probably to much) effort to typeset my
first presentation and a couple of other documents in ConTeXt after
which I realised that it takes me far less time if I continue using
LaTeX for some documents (no need to redefine styles for headings,
simple tables easier to typeset there, ...).
I'm not sure if these are only the problems at the beginning (since I
have to look for almost any command I use) and would soon disappear or
would the general advice be don't use ConTeXt if LaTeX suits your
needs. What are your opinions about that?
I guess I could be missing something. \usemodule[pre-'something'] could
be a quick solution for presentations (and I needed quite some time to
realise that, but I've made up my own style anyway) - does anything 
similar exist also for LaTeX-like documents? I can write something for 
myself, but it still doesn't solve the problem if I want to convince 
someone to start using ConTeXt as a substitute for simple LaTeX 
documents as long he's unable to achive nice default formatting in one 
or two lines.

Thanks a lot,
Mojca Miklavec
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[NTG-context] EPS/PDF import and \underbrace in metaplay

2004-08-04 Thread Mojca Miklavec
I have two questions cencerning metapost/metaplay:
1.) EPS/PDF import
How do I make an existing EPS or PDF image a part of some other 
meta[post/play] graphic?

2.) \underbrace
I wrote the following two macros for drawing braces in graphics:
\def\underbracedescription#1#2{$\underbrace{\hbox{\vrule width#1 height
0bp}}_{\hbox{\strut #2}}$}
\def\rightbracedescription#1#2{$\displaystyle{\left.\vphantom{\hbox{\vrule
width0bp height#1 depth#1}}\right\}\hbox{\strut #2}}$}
However, the width has to be given manually - it doesn't care about the
actual size of the object it has to be applied to. How is it possible to
give the command some more flexibility?
(say, to be able to simply use 
\underbracedescription{pict}{description}, perhaps even without the need 
of specifying the coordinates explicitly, but)

Thanks a lot,
Mojca Miklavec
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Re: [NTG-context] EPS/PDF import and \underbrace in metaplay

2004-08-04 Thread Vit Zyka
Mojca Miklavec wrote:
1.) EPS/PDF import
How do I make an existing EPS or PDF image a part of some other 
meta[post/play] graphic?
Use externalfigure (Metafun manual, 8.4 Including graphics)
2.) \underbrace
I wrote the following two macros for drawing braces in graphics:
\def\underbracedescription#1#2{$\underbrace{\hbox{\vrule width#1 height
0bp}}_{\hbox{\strut #2}}$}
\def\rightbracedescription#1#2{$\displaystyle{\left.\vphantom{\hbox{\vrule
width0bp height#1 depth#1}}\right\}\hbox{\strut #2}}$}
However, the width has to be given manually - it doesn't care about the
I do not understand what is your desire. But in the case of obtaining 
real dimmensions:
  \setbox0=\hbox{ ... }%
then
  \wd0 is width
  \ht0 is height
  \dp0 is depth
  \box0 or \copy0 give the box contain

Vit Zyka
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Re: [NTG-context] ConTeXt vs. LaTeX

2004-08-04 Thread Zeljko Vrba
On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 04:07:43PM +0200, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
 
 I'm not sure if these are only the problems at the beginning (since I
 have to look for almost any command I use) and would soon disappear or
 would the general advice be don't use ConTeXt if LaTeX suits your
 needs. What are your opinions about that?
 
Being a Context user, I also miss some of nice default formatting of LaTeX.
However, the need for some specific formatting which is weakly handled in
LaTeX made me use Context and I never regret it.

For example, automatic layout of text floating around figures. Or the
possibility of typesetting text in columns (see my document prepared in
Context at

http://oss.unist.hr/~zvrba/spa.zip

there I typeset text next to C code..)

The best thing I find about Context is that everything I ever thought
of (e.g. in one document I rotated the table 90 degrees to be parallel
with long side of A4 paper and text flowed around the table) is nicely
integrated in Context and there is no need for extra packages like in
Latex. Some things are undocumented in 'official' manuals (e.g. \hyphenatedurl)
but I found them easily by grepping through the code..

I settled myself on a style that fits the kind of documents I write and I
reuse it from a single environment..

Sure I miss nice formatting of Latex (I find my own design rather spartane)
and some packages (e.g. for typesetting the code, like vgrind) but the
consistency and easiness of doing typesetting the Context-way (defining
your own enumerations, 'theorems', headers/footers, placing figures and
tables within text, page layout, etc..) outweighs those drawbacks..

My advice (though, it may not be very popular here) is to stick to Latex
while it suits your needs. And this advice I would give for any kind of
tool - why change it if it isn't broken?

I learned Context because Latex didn't suit my
needs (concrete example: for my diploma work, my mentor required that there
must not be Chapter heading for each chapter.. If I put \chapter*, then
it didn't appear in the table of contents.. the solution was dirty - copy
the report class file to local directory and edit it.. however if such a simple
problem has such a dirty solution, how could I cope with tougher problems?
So I switched to Context and never use Latex any more..)

I must say that the beginners manual is excellent and is almost everything
you need.. For harder stuff, Hans and other TeX hackers on this list have
been an invaluable (and quick - I was in a real hurry writing my diploma)
help - THANKS GUYS!

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Re: [NTG-context] ConTeXt vs. LaTeX

2004-08-04 Thread Siep Kroonenberg
On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 06:58:48PM +0200, Zeljko Vrba wrote:
 On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 04:07:43PM +0200, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
  
  I'm not sure if these are only the problems at the beginning (since I
  have to look for almost any command I use) and would soon disappear or
  would the general advice be don't use ConTeXt if LaTeX suits your
  needs. What are your opinions about that?

Try it for a bit and see whether you like it. Some people find that
it makes things simpler and more logical. It is a different way of
working, which may or may not suit you.

For me personally, somehow Context is a bad match, and it has been
fighting all the way. Therefore I use Context only when I have to.

 I learned Context because Latex didn't suit my
 needs (concrete example: for my diploma work, my mentor required that there
 must not be Chapter heading for each chapter.. If I put \chapter*, then
 it didn't appear in the table of contents.. the solution was dirty - copy
 the report class file to local directory and edit it.. however if such a simple
 problem has such a dirty solution, how could I cope with tougher problems?

The right way to handle this would have been to copy just the
relevant code fragment to a package or classfile of your own and
modify it. The code would have looked a lot hackier than
corresponding Context code, but as long as it sits neatly tucked
away in a package of its own, you wouldn't have to let that bother
you.

LaTeX source code is generally well-documented, and much easier to
find your way around in than Context code.

For presentations there are pdfscreen and pdfslide, and David Storey
has done nteractivestuff with pdf. So don't underestimate the
possibilities of LaTeX.

-- 
Siep Kroonenberg
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RE: [NTG-context] Re: new stuff for brave users

2004-08-04 Thread ishamid
Hi Patrick,

One suggestion for TeXshow-web:-)

The commands are all listed in alphabetical order, which is great. But one 
good help would be an option ordering them by topic. For example, a while back 
I needed a rotation command, and the manual does not discuss many of the 
graphics capabilities of ConTeXt. I finally found \rotate combing through the 
base files (it's not in cont-eni.pdf). It would be very useful to know all 
such graphics commands in ConTeXt. The organization of the Reference Manual of 
Lamport's book on LaTeX, or even the end-of-chapter command summaries of 
cont-eni.pdf, is a good model for this. So if I am looking for a graphics 
command I can look purely alphabetically as it is now, as well as topically, 
which is sometimes more useful.

A related point; in ConTeXt the bar | is an active character, which is not 
Plain behavior. A list of these little special characters would be useful as 
well, especially for macro writers, etc.

In any case, this list of commands is a great contribution, and a topical 
organization would make it greater:=)

All the best
Idris


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Re: [NTG-context] Re: new stuff for brave users

2004-08-04 Thread Brooks Moses
On Thu, Aug 05, 2004 at 12:51:13AM +0200, Hans Hagen Outside wrote:
 so ... not you can write a myway about it -)

I seem to have lost my link to the existing MyWays, if I ever had
one.  Where can I find them?

Thanks,
- Brooks
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