Re: [NTG-context] Grammar

2010-07-27 Thread Arthur Reutenauer
 P.S. Both homme and on in French comes from the Latin homo.

  Yes, and the derivation of “on” from “homme” was apparently inspired
by the Early German construct Mann - man (that was maybe not spelt that
way at the time).  Ironic, that now some advocate the use of “mensch” in
German to replace “man”...

Arthur
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Grammar

2010-07-27 Thread Matija Šuklje
Dne torek 27. julija 2010 ob 17:28:51 je Arthur Reutenauer napisal(a):
  P.S. Both homme and on in French comes from the Latin homo.
 
   Yes, and the derivation of “on” from “homme” was apparently inspired
 by the Early German construct Mann - man (that was maybe not spelt that
 way at the time).  Ironic, that now some advocate the use of “mensch” in
 German to replace “man”...

History of languages is a funny thing, yeah... :]


Cheers,
Matija
-- 
gsm: +386 41 849 552
www: http://matija.suklje.name
xmpp: matija.suk...@gabbler.org
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Grammar

2010-07-27 Thread David Rogers

* Hans Hagen pra...@wxs.nl [2010-07-27 16:15]:


On 27-7-2010 4:10, David Rogers wrote:


In academic writing especially, it's necessary to weigh the effect of
this distraction before using anything other than standard
constructions. Sometimes this kind of focus on the writer's personality
and politics may be welcome, or even necessary; but in some situations
it is not.


so what do copy editors of scientific publications do when they see 
mixed (or inconsistent) usage of he/she/etc?


I'm not a regular reader of any scientific publications. I suspect there
are different de facto standards in different fields.

--
David
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Grammar (was: Semantic data in ConTeXt?)

2010-07-27 Thread Rory Molinari
On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 2:48 AM, John Haltiwanger
john.haltiwan...@gmail.com wrote:
 Whether it is useless/'no problem exists' is not up to you to decide:
 it is up to those who do find it important. As long as some people
 find it important, no childish dismissals will remove that importance.

 It seems the most successful/widely adopted form is to vary from 'he'
 to 'she' (so that in one sentence you use one, in the next another).
 Some authors even change the gender within a sentence. This method was
 adopted because 'one' (the real correct unisex pronoun) is just too
 awkward for extended use. The morphographic he/she/he/she method reads
 surprisingly well.

I would find a switch like that weird and disconcerting, as if the
text were unmoored in some sense.

I usually flip a coin to choose between he and she before I start
a document, and stick with it.  (If I think the issue might be of
interest to the reader I add a footnote explaining this.)

I very much dislike the singular they, though its use goes back centuries.

Cheers,
Rory


 On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 8:23 AM, Matija Šuklje mat...@suklje.name wrote:
 Dne ponedeljek 26. julija 2010 ob 01:47:13 je David Rogers napisal(a):
 * Matija Šuklje mat...@suklje.name [2010-07-25 23:33]:
 -.-.-
 P.S. Is there a nicer wording then (s)he for referencing persona in
 unisex gender (other then one)?

 The correct unisex pronoun is he. This whole question is an invented
 problem where no real problem exists.

 Thanks for explaining. This unisex and other politically correct stuff is
 always a bit odd.


 Cheers,
 Matija
 --
 gsm: +386 41 849 552
 www: http://matija.suklje.name
 xmpp: matija.suk...@gabbler.org
 ___
 If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to 
 the Wiki!

 maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / 
 http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
 webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
 archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
 wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
 ___

 ___
 If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
 Wiki!

 maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
 webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
 archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
 wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
 ___

___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Grammar

2010-07-27 Thread Matija Šuklje
Dne torek 27. julija 2010 ob 18:33:34 je David Rogers napisal(a):
 I'm not a regular reader of any scientific publications. I suspect there
 are different de facto standards in different fields.

In legal texts we usually help ourselves with definitions in the beginning of 
the text:

landlord or landlady hereinafter referred to as 'bastard'

but this obviously doesn't work well in non-legal texts.


Cheers,
Matija
-- 
gsm: +386 41 849 552
www: http://matija.suklje.name
xmpp: matija.suk...@gabbler.org
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


[NTG-context] new beta

2010-07-27 Thread Hans Hagen

Hi,

I uploaded a new beta that can deal with the new mplib. The biggest side 
effect of the new lib is that no longer formats are made and that the 
'format related code' (read: metafun) is loaded at runtime. In the 
future I might optimize this but at the moment it's not needed. For a 
while both methods will be supported.


The latest version of mplib can process the metafun manual without 
crashing or hanging which is a good sign.


Hans

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
 | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Grammar

2010-07-27 Thread Taco Hoekwater

On 07/27/2010 06:59 PM, Matija Šuklje wrote:

Dne torek 27. julija 2010 ob 18:33:34 je David Rogers napisal(a):

I'm not a regular reader of any scientific publications. I suspect there
are different de facto standards in different fields.


In legal texts we usually help ourselves with definitions in the beginning of
the text:

landlord or landlady hereinafter referred to as 'bastard'


In some types of document, you can introduce a fake name, like Knuth
does in the TeXbook.

Best wishes,
Taco
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Grammar

2010-07-27 Thread John Haltiwanger
On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 3:27 PM, Matija Šuklje mat...@suklje.name wrote:

 Personally I feel that the political correctness has gone a bit too far, but
 where the line should be drawn, I don't know.

 I can provide a few examples of where political correctness *has* gone too far
 and can actually be even counter-productive:

 In Slovenia it is rude to call Bosnians Bosanci, Albanians Šiptarji and
 Gypsies Cigani and the official political correct terms for them are:
 Bošnjaki, Albanci and Romi.

 With first two the problem is that they even officially call _themselves_
 Bosanci and Šiptarji in their own language.

Who is considering it rude? Do the Bosanci consider it rude when you
call them Bosanci and prefer that you would use Bošnjaki? Or is it a
different set of people who are offended? This is my personal litmus
test for navigating the preferred naming of groups (preferred by the
groups themselves, that is).

There are many cases in American culture at least of groups using a
term within themselves that they do not want others to use, but not
usually the names used by that population when politely referring to
themselves (i.e. generally these terms are loaded slang words
appropriated from the dominating culture and internalized in order to
redistribute the balance of power that forms around that word.) So I'm
wondering if the situation you describe in Slovenia is being driven by
these groups, or if those groups would actually prefer to go by the
name they call themselves.

 With the so called Roma people, the problem is even bigger, since to my
 knowledge Roma are just one of the tribes. So by having to call _all_ gypsies
 Roma, you are effectively putting one tribe in front of the others and denying
 the existence of the others.

I have to ask the same question: Do the tribes in general prefer Romi
over Cigani? Also: am I going to far in assuming that any movement to
encourage them to all be called by their individual tribal names would
inevitably be referred to as pushing a 'politically correct' agenda?

In proper synchronistic fashion, I came across this piece today that
fits our topic of discussion:

  
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703467304575383131592767868.html?mod=WSJ_hp_mostpop_read
-- Lost in Translation
-- New cognitive research suggests that language profoundly influences
the way people see the world; a different sense of blame in Japanese
and Spanish

All this new research shows us that the languages we speak not only
reflect or express our thoughts, but also shape the very thoughts we
wish to express. The structures that exist in our languages profoundly
shape how we construct reality, and help make us as smart and
sophisticated as we are.
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] using \definebodyfont with multiple size declarations -- Why?

2010-07-27 Thread Hans Hagen

On 26-7-2010 11:36, Martin Althoff wrote:


\definebodyfont [10pt,11pt,12pt] [rm] [tfe=Serif at 48pt, ite=SerifItalic at 
48pt]
\tfe Big {\it Words}.

What I simply don't understand is the need for multiple font size declarations. I can 
(kind of) see that it might be necessary (looking at typescripts), if the whole 
typescript resolves to design sizes where each point size is a single font 
file. But for ttf/otf fonts, ie. where the font is scaled?


as mentioned, it originates in design sizes and finetuning

for most fonts you will see things like

\definetypeface [main] [rm] [serif] [palatino] [default]

this will use the default set

  \definebodyfont
[4pt,5pt,6pt,7pt,8pt,9pt,10pt,11pt,12pt,14.4pt,17.3pt]
[rm] [default]

in principle we could do without, but this helps predefining a couple of 
things that otherwise would slow down each font switch


it also relates to bodyfont environments where there are relationships 
between sizes


but anyhow, it's mostly a side effect of lm having design sizes

in practice, if you choose say 13pt it will work out ok  as things are 
checked and defined on the fly; but there might be a slight performance hit



This minimal example, including a special font (TitleFont) works (almost) 
fine for me.

% the only two statements to declare the fonts I want to use
\usetypescriptfile[type-otf] % being default, I could even miss this declaration


sure, as that one is already part of the load-set


\setupbodyfont[pagella,10pt]

\definefont [WonderFont] [BoldItalic sa 4.8]


you probably want features enables, so *default

\definefont [WonderFont] [BoldItalic*default sa 4.8]


\starttext
{\WonderFont The Big Title}
\input aesop-de
\stoptext

I do get one consistant error (the 5pt can vary depending on the size I give in 
setupbodyfont):

{/Users/martin/contextMini/tex/texmf-context/fonts/map/pdftex/context/mkiv-px.map}
virtual math  the mapping is incomplete for 'pxmath' at 5pt


harmless: it means that the math virtual font vector is not yet 
completely defined, and the message is only given once per set (i.e. 
pxmath) so in this case that happens to be the 5pt version (small sizes 
are defined as part of math setup)



Though, the document looks fine. Does the error hint I am missing something? What is 
good practice in Luatex/MKIV to access the desired fonts?


using \definefont as you do is ok



My questions:

- when do I need to use the multiple point sizes at all in a Luatex/MKIV 
environment?


if you want an adaptive situation, so, in a title where you have only 
text, it' ok to use \definefont; when you expect things like math, 
smaller or larger sizes and style switches, you can best use a bodyfont 
switch



- when would I need to provide that information in typescript files I need to 
create? (simplefonts is very slow to load fonts with phonetic symbols)


depends .. wolfgang might know the answer

Hans

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
 | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] using \definebodyfont with multiple size declarations -- Why?

2010-07-27 Thread Wolfgang Schuster

 Am 26.07.10 11:36, schrieb Martin Althoff:

- when would I need to provide that information in typescript files I need to 
create? (simplefonts is very slow to load fonts with phonetic symbols)


Can you show me a example where simplefonts is so slow.

Wolfgang

___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Grammar

2010-07-27 Thread Marcin Borkowski
Dnia Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 01:06:27PM +, John Haltiwanger napisa#322;(a):
 On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 8:47 AM, Marcin Borkowski
 mb...@atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl wrote:
  Hi,
 
  what an interesting discussion!
 
  My personal point of view is that the so-called political correctness
  is something I actively fight against, by means of NOT using they or
  Afroamericans or other such strange inventions.  These new words
  somehow remind me of Orwell's 1984...
 
 So what do you write instead? Negro?

And what's wrong with Negro?  AFAIK, it means black, so it just
describes the reality.  This is what a word should do, right?  And btw,
the term Afroamerican doesn't really make much sense to me: what would
you call a Negro, born in France, and living in Germany, when you wanted
to distinguish him from a white man?  (Please note that by man, I mean
a human being of any sex;).)

To be more serious: I accept that there might be a problem caused by the
fact that I am not a native speaker of English.  I suspect that somehow
the neutral term Negro started being used in a derogatory fashion, and
that it might be unpleasant to black people to be called Negroes.  And
that's why I usually say just black people.

 'Political correctness' can be onerous, and often contradictory to my
 anti-authoritarian nature, but in the end it is not the Man who
 issues requests for language changes so much as the marginalized
 groups that take issue with existing phrasing. Afroamericans, for
 instance, was deprecated sometime around that year 1984.. It all boils
 down to whether you care about what the people concerned are saying,
 which is why I note the author's position when I encounter it. (Rather
 than throwing their paper away, ala Khaled).

Well, onerous might not be the best word.  Scary might be better.

You see, I am quite convinced that trying to manipulate language by
hand is a very bad idea.  Maybe this is partly because I live in a
former Communist country (Poland); we have seen such things in the past.
Another reason maybe that it seems to me that one of the first groups to
talk about political correctness (maybe even coining the phrase, I
don't know) were feminists, who did so much more harm to women in
general than we usually imagine.

 This is always a contentious issue when software/coder types are
 involved, one of the serious reasons why female participation in IT
 (in general) and FLoSS (in particular) are so low: many men in these
 circles will not, or can not, give room to critical complaints. The
 problem always originates in the person complaining---they need to be
 less serious, no one around here cares so stfu, etc. This is a serious
 issue, and this is probably one of the least contentious starting
 points for encountering it. That theory would be thrown away because
 it attempts to consciously address real gender inequalities is a
 depressing thought.

I am not sure that I understood your point, but I am quite convinced
that the low percentage of women in mathematics or IT is caused
primarily by the simple fact that an average female brain is not well
fit for this particular purpose.  (Of course, we all know notable
exceptions.  Also note that better/worse fit for one particular
purpose is completely unrelated to better/worse in general.)

 I for one have always thought it would be interesting to develop a
 Unicode character that provides a symbol representing a neutral gender
 pronoun. Then, anyone reading can insert he/she or another option to
 their own taste.

Regards

-- 
Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl)

Emacs: Escape-Meta-Alt-Control-Shift.
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Grammar

2010-07-27 Thread Marcin Borkowski
Dnia Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 05:27:11PM +0200, Matija Šuklje napisa#322;(a):
 With the so called Roma people, the problem is even bigger, since to my 
 knowledge Roma are just one of the tribes. So by having to call _all_ gypsies 
 Roma, you are effectively putting one tribe in front of the others and 
 denying 
 the existence of the others.

We have the same issue in Polish.  Until now I didn't know that the
Romowie vs Cyganie (in Polish) has also this kind of problem.  This
particular example is even more interesting because of a few Polish
words, originating from the word Cyganie, like cyganeria (which
means roughly a group of artists, living (usually together) in a
leisurely way), or ocyganić, which means to cheat (this one is
rather old-fashioned).  I guess that maybe we (and groups like Gypsies)
have just to live with that - even if we try to eliminate such words,
another ones will emerge.  For instance: I think that gay was first
introduced by the LGBT lobby as a positive term, which now (at least
in Polish) is beginning to be derogatory.  Here, this works in exactly
the opposite direction: it is not the language which shapes our
thinking, but our attitudes which shape our language.  In the Gypsy
case, instead of introducing a new word (Romowie), I would rather try
to discourage using ocyganić in the sense of cheating.

BTW, I know of at least two derogatory terms concerning my nation:
Polak (which is exactly what a Polish man is called in Polish) is
considered rude in the US, and polnische Wirtchaft is very
derogatory in German.  I have to admit that I am not extremely happy
because of these terms, but it's not a real problem for me.

Regards

-- 
Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl)

Emacs: Escape-Meta-Alt-Control-Shift.
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Grammar (was: Semantic data in ConTeXt?)

2010-07-27 Thread Marcin Borkowski
Dnia Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 09:53:18AM -0700, Rory Molinari napisa#322;(a):
 I usually flip a coin to choose between he and she before I start
 a document, and stick with it.  (If I think the issue might be of
 interest to the reader I add a footnote explaining this.)

I like that!  Although I bet that sooner or later some stupid feminist
will accuse you of cheating (unless you toss the female side more
often, in which case she'll be waiting for this tendency to change;)...)

Regards

-- 
Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl)
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Grammar

2010-07-27 Thread Hans Hagen

On 28-7-2010 1:10, Marcin Borkowski wrote:


BTW, I know of at least two derogatory terms concerning my nation:
Polak (which is exactly what a Polish man is called in Polish) is
considered rude in the US, and polnische Wirtchaft is very
derogatory in German.  I have to admit that I am not extremely happy
because of these terms, but it's not a real problem for me.


It's definitely good to know that when choosing names one should be 
careful. I just hope that none of the language related tags in context 
is problematic. (Years ago there was a really nasty discussion on the 
xetex list about naming languages in some latex package .. sort of got 
out of hands.)


Hans

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
 | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Grammar

2010-07-27 Thread Hans Hagen

On 28-7-2010 1:12, Marcin Borkowski wrote:

Dnia Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 09:53:18AM -0700, Rory Molinari napisa#322;(a):

I usually flip a coin to choose between he and she before I start
a document, and stick with it.  (If I think the issue might be of
interest to the reader I add a footnote explaining this.)


I like that!  Although I bet that sooner or later some stupid feminist
will accuse you of cheating (unless you toss the female side more
often, in which case she'll be waiting for this tendency to change;)...)


as normally one can swap he/she without problems, we can make a module 
for that ..


% Of course one can now wonder if \heshe or \shehe should be defined first.

\getrandomcount\scratchcounter{0}{10}

\ifnum\scratchcounter5
\enablemode[gender:male]
\edef\heshe {he}
\edef\HeShe {He}
\edef\hisher{His}
\else
\enablemode[gender:female]
\edef\heshe {she}
\edef\HeShe {She}
\edef\hisher{Her}
\fi

\let\shehe \heshe
\let\SheHe \HeShe
\let\herhis\hisher

\starttext

I wonder if \heshe\ likes reading this article.

\stoptext

(looks like i need to move some initialization code as the seed is set 
at starttext time which is too late)



-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
 | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Grammar (was: Semantic data in ConTeXt?)

2010-07-27 Thread Rory Molinari
On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 4:12 PM, Marcin Borkowski
mb...@atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl wrote:
 I like that!  Although I bet that sooner or later some stupid feminist
 will accuse you of cheating (unless you toss the female side more
 often, in which case she'll be waiting for this tendency to change;)...)

I doubt I will ever write enough documents for my coin to be subjected
to a statistically rigorous test of fairness!

Cheers,
Rory
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Grammar (was: Semantic data in ConTeXt?)

2010-07-27 Thread Marcin Borkowski
Dnia Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 05:18:55PM -0700, Rory Molinari napisa#322;(a):
 On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 4:12 PM, Marcin Borkowski
 mb...@atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl wrote:
  I like that!  Although I bet that sooner or later some stupid feminist
  will accuse you of cheating (unless you toss the female side more
  often, in which case she'll be waiting for this tendency to change;)...)
 
 I doubt I will ever write enough documents for my coin to be subjected
 to a statistically rigorous test of fairness!

Agree, but try to explain that to a fanatic feminist!

 Cheers,
 Rory

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl)
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Grammar

2010-07-27 Thread David Rogers

* Marcin Borkowski mb...@atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl [2010-07-28 00:57]:


Dnia Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 01:06:27PM +, John Haltiwanger napisa#322;(a):

On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 8:47 AM, Marcin Borkowski
mb...@atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl wrote:
 Hi,

 what an interesting discussion!

 My personal point of view is that the so-called political correctness
 is something I actively fight against, by means of NOT using they or
 Afroamericans or other such strange inventions.  These new words
 somehow remind me of Orwell's 1984...

So what do you write instead? Negro?


And what's wrong with Negro?  AFAIK, it means black, so it just
describes the reality.  This is what a word should do, right?  And btw,
the term Afroamerican doesn't really make much sense to me: what would
you call a Negro, born in France, and living in Germany, when you wanted
to distinguish him from a white man?  (Please note that by man, I mean
a human being of any sex;).)

To be more serious: I accept that there might be a problem caused by the
fact that I am not a native speaker of English.  I suspect that somehow
the neutral term Negro started being used in a derogatory fashion, and
that it might be unpleasant to black people to be called Negroes.  And
that's why I usually say just black people.


Precisely. Some people began to use an ordinary word in a derogatory
way. After that, the word came to be recognized as ONLY a derogatory
word, and lost its status as an ordinary word.

It then seemed that the best thing to do was to find a neutral word to
replace the derogatory one, so that people could speak without being
rude. But the new word became dirty as well, so a third word had to be
brought into service. And so on.

Part of the problem is that the meaning of a word can be changed by the
intention of the speaker. Here's an example:

I know a woman who moved here from another country. Іn the country where
she lived before, there was a group of people she hated. When she says
the name of that group, it is a dirty word. When I say the same word, it
is neutral. And if we teach my friend a new word for that group of
people, she will change our new word into a dirty word as well. Changing
the syllables she utters does not change her intention.


'Political correctness' can be onerous, and often contradictory to my
anti-authoritarian nature, but in the end it is not the Man who
issues requests for language changes so much as the marginalized
groups that take issue with existing phrasing. Afroamericans, for
instance, was deprecated sometime around that year 1984.. It all boils
down to whether you care about what the people concerned are saying,
which is why I note the author's position when I encounter it. (Rather
than throwing their paper away, ala Khaled).


Well, onerous might not be the best word.  Scary might be better.

You see, I am quite convinced that trying to manipulate language by
hand is a very bad idea.  Maybe this is partly because I live in a
former Communist country (Poland); we have seen such things in the past.


In many cases, marginalized groups do request language changes, but very
often those requested changes then receive very strong support from the
Man. Without that institutional support (mainly from government
agencies and schools), probably some of the new words would stick;
others would not. Some new words may be perfectly appropriate; others
are difficult to understand or even contrary to the truth. (One example:
in the area where I live, a person who requires treatment in a mental
hospital is called a mental health consumer - yet mental health is not
something that can be consumed. One of the local men, who has spent much
of his life in mental hospitals and has become an activist for improving
the conditions there, rejects such nonsensical labels and insists on
being called a crazy person.)


--
David
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


[NTG-context] using \definebodyfont with multiple size declarations -- Why?

2010-07-27 Thread Martin Althoff
As someone new to Context, I am trying to get to grips with font handling. 
Reading through a fair amount of documentation it is not always to clear to me 
what recommended practice in todays Luatex/MKIV enviroment is.

My setup is Minimals updated 26.7.2010 (luatex 0.60.2, MTXrun 2010.07.22) 
setup on Mac OS X 10.6.4. I use it to produce documents I need in a language 
teaching environment. As I am starting of without legacy documents, there is no 
need for MKII or any other type of Tex.

Confusing for me is the use of \definebodyfont in typescripts. I read in 
co-fonts.pdf (no release date, internal creation date 18/11/2009):

because Latin Modern comes in design sizes, there was a need to associate a 
specific font with each bodyfont size. You may find yourself in a similar 
situation when you attempt to create a typescript for a ‘professional' 
commercial font set.

Looking at the example:

\definebodyfont [10pt,11pt,12pt] [rm] [tfe=Serif at 48pt, ite=SerifItalic at 
48pt] 
\tfe Big {\it Words}.

What I simply don't understand is the need for multiple font size declarations. 
I can (kind of) see that it might be necessary (looking at typescripts), if the 
whole typescript resolves to design sizes where each point size is a single 
font file. But for ttf/otf fonts, ie. where the font is scaled?


This minimal example, including a special font (TitleFont) works (almost) 
fine for me. 

% the only two statements to declare the fonts I want to use
\usetypescriptfile[type-otf] % being default, I could even miss this 
declaration 
\setupbodyfont[pagella,10pt]

\definefont [WonderFont] [BoldItalic sa 4.8]

\starttext
{\WonderFont The Big Title}
\input aesop-de
\stoptext

I do get one consistant error (the 5pt can vary depending on the size I give 
in setupbodyfont): 

{/Users/martin/contextMini/tex/texmf-context/fonts/map/pdftex/context/mkiv-px.map}
virtual math the mapping is incomplete for 'pxmath' at 5pt

Though, the document looks fine. Does the error hint I am missing something? 
What is good practice in Luatex/MKIV to access the desired fonts?


My questions: 

- when do I need to use the multiple point sizes at all in a Luatex/MKIV 
environment?
- when would I need to provide that information in typescript files I need to 
create? (simplefonts is very slow to load fonts with phonetic symbols)

Any tips to help my understanding would be appreciated!





___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Grammar (was: Semantic data in ConTeXt?)

2010-07-27 Thread Alan BRASLAU
On Monday 26 July 2010 01:47:13 David Rogers wrote:
 * Matija Šuklje mat...@suklje.name [2010-07-25 23:33]:
 -.-.-
 P.S. Is there a nicer wording then (s)he for referencing persona in
 unisex gender (other then one)?
 
 The correct unisex pronoun is he. This whole question is an invented
 problem where no real problem exists.
 
 They is usually acceptable, even though it's technically incorrect.
 Many teachers of English are against its use, but in real life nobody
 cares.

He sells sea shells by the sea shore?

Alan
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Grammar

2010-07-27 Thread Marcin Borkowski
Hi,

what an interesting discussion!

My personal point of view is that the so-called political correctness
is something I actively fight against, by means of NOT using they or
Afroamericans or other such strange inventions.  These new words
somehow remind me of Orwell's 1984...

Regards

-- 
Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl)
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] font size in math mode

2010-07-27 Thread Armin Varmaz
Hi Hans, hi guys,


thanks for the explanation! 


Does this mean that each time I want to change the font size of the text (e.g. 
for a floating object or framed text) I must do this manually for mathematics? 
or is there a way to adopt the font size of the text to mathematics? see below 
for an example what I mean. Here, I used definetextbackground but the effect 
remains in floating objects as well. I tried different font styles and 
different font types, too.


Armin  

** EXAMPLE


\definealternativestyle[ImportantStyle][{\definedfont[Kurier-Bold at 24pt]}]


\definetextbackground[zhu]
 [location=paragraph,
 background=color,backgroundcolor=orange,
 leftoffset=0.5\bodyfontsize,rightoffset=.5\bodyfontsize,
 topoffset=.5\bodyfontsize,bottomoffset=.5\bodyfontsize,
 style=ImportantStyle,
 frame=off]


\startsetups important:start
 \starttextbackground[zhu]
\stopsetups


\startsetups important:stop
 \endgraf
 \stoptextbackground
\stopsetups


\definestartstop
 [important]
 [before=\setups{important:start},
 after=\setups{important:stop}]


\starttext


this looks normal $x$.


\startimportant
this uses the environment definetextbackground \mathematics{x}.
\stopimportant
\stoptext

** END EXAMPLE
___
WEB.DE DSL ab 19,99 Euro/Monat. Bis zu 150,- Euro Startguthaben und 
50,- Euro Geldprämie inklusive! https://freundschaftswerbung.web.de
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


[NTG-context] help with startformulas and startalign

2010-07-27 Thread Julian Becker
Hi everybody,
I'm new to ConTeXt and need a little expert help. When I'm running the
following 'test.tex' file

\starttext
\placeformula
\startformulas
\startformula
\startalign
\NC A \NC = B \NR[+]
\NC C \NC = D \NR[+]
\stopalign
\stopformula
\startformula E \stopformula
\stopformulas
\stoptext
--

I get the following errors:

systems : begin file test.tex at line 1
! Missing $$ inserted.
to be read again
 \Ustopdisplaymath
\stopformula -\normalstopformula
  \egroup \Ustopmath \hss
argument ...= D \NR [+] \stopalign \stopformula
   \startformula E \stopformula
\dostartformulas ...la \egroup \Ustopmath \hss }#2
\egroup \stopdisplaymath \...
l.12 \stopformulas

! You can't use `\Ustopdisplaymath' in horizontal mode
pages  flushing realpage 1, userpage 1, subpage 1
systems : end file test.tex at line 14


Does anybody know how to do this right? Startformulas itself works allright,
if I leave out the alignment part. I also tried startmathalignment instead,
but it gave the same errors.

Best regards,
Julian
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] help with startformulas and startalign

2010-07-27 Thread Taco Hoekwater

On 07/27/2010 02:21 PM, Julian Becker wrote:


I get the following errors:

systems : begin file test.tex at line 1
! Missing $$ inserted.
to be read again
  \Ustopdisplaymath


This is a bug in luatex that will be fixed in the next beta,
it is not your fault. Until then, this definition somewhere
before \starttext should fix it:

  \def\Ustopdisplaymath{$$}

Best wishes,
Taco

___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] help with startformulas and startalign

2010-07-27 Thread Julian Becker
Thanks a lot, this did the trick.

best regards, Julian

2010/7/27 Taco Hoekwater t...@elvenkind.com

 On 07/27/2010 02:21 PM, Julian Becker wrote:


 I get the following errors:

 systems : begin file test.tex at line 1
 ! Missing $$ inserted.
 to be read again
  \Ustopdisplaymath


 This is a bug in luatex that will be fixed in the next beta,
 it is not your fault. Until then, this definition somewhere
 before \starttext should fix it:

  \def\Ustopdisplaymath{$$}

 Best wishes,
 Taco




-- 
Julian Becker
Institut für Angewandte Physik, R.123
Westfälische Wilhelms-Universität Münster
Corrensstr. 2/4
48149 Münster / Westfalen
Tel. 0251 83-3 61 53
Mob. 0151 599 848 29
e-mail: j_bec...@uni-muenster.de

Keep thy heart with all diligence; for it is the wellspring of life.
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] font size in math mode

2010-07-27 Thread Hans Hagen

On 27-7-2010 1:40, Armin Varmaz wrote:

Hi Hans, hi guys,


thanks for the explanation!


Does this mean that each time I want to change the font size of the text (e..g. 
for a floating object or framed text) I must do this manually for mathematics? 
or is there a way to adopt the font size of the text to mathematics? see below 
for an example what I mean. Here, I used definetextbackground but the effect 
remains in floating objects as well. I tried different font styles and 
different font types, too.


indeed, as math is using another font (or more fonts), so best then do:

\switchtobodyfont[small]\bf

or so. An other alternative is to define a few more sizes:

\setupbodyfontenvironment[default][p=0.8,q=0.6]

\definefontsize[p] \definefontsize[q]

\usetypescript[palatino]

test $x$ {\tfp test $x$} {\tfq test $x$} test




-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
 | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Grammar

2010-07-27 Thread John Haltiwanger
On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 8:47 AM, Marcin Borkowski
mb...@atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl wrote:
 Hi,

 what an interesting discussion!

 My personal point of view is that the so-called political correctness
 is something I actively fight against, by means of NOT using they or
 Afroamericans or other such strange inventions.  These new words
 somehow remind me of Orwell's 1984...

So what do you write instead? Negro?

'Political correctness' can be onerous, and often contradictory to my
anti-authoritarian nature, but in the end it is not the Man who
issues requests for language changes so much as the marginalized
groups that take issue with existing phrasing. Afroamericans, for
instance, was deprecated sometime around that year 1984.. It all boils
down to whether you care about what the people concerned are saying,
which is why I note the author's position when I encounter it. (Rather
than throwing their paper away, ala Khaled).

This is always a contentious issue when software/coder types are
involved, one of the serious reasons why female participation in IT
(in general) and FLoSS (in particular) are so low: many men in these
circles will not, or can not, give room to critical complaints. The
problem always originates in the person complaining---they need to be
less serious, no one around here cares so stfu, etc. This is a serious
issue, and this is probably one of the least contentious starting
points for encountering it. That theory would be thrown away because
it attempts to consciously address real gender inequalities is a
depressing thought.

I for one have always thought it would be interesting to develop a
Unicode character that provides a symbol representing a neutral gender
pronoun. Then, anyone reading can insert he/she or another option to
their own taste.
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Grammar

2010-07-27 Thread Hans Hagen

On 27-7-2010 3:06, John Haltiwanger wrote:


I for one have always thought it would be interesting to develop a
Unicode character that provides a symbol representing a neutral gender
pronoun. Then, anyone reading can insert he/she or another option to
their own taste.


Interesting ... if we can come up with a nice symbol that we can agree 
on it should be doable to get it included in quite some tex related 
fonts (the group involved in maintaining them is not so large) ... and 
then we can set a standard. After all, symbols like copyright and 
registered made it into fonts and those are used (if at all) only a few 
times in documents and in unseen places.


Maybe arthur knows if there are scripts that have such a symbol. Of 
course then there is the issue of how to pronounce it.


Hans


-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
 | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Grammar

2010-07-27 Thread luigi scarso
On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 3:17 PM, Hans Hagen pra...@wxs.nl wrote:

 On 27-7-2010 3:06, John Haltiwanger wrote:

  I for one have always thought it would be interesting to develop a
 Unicode character that provides a symbol representing a neutral gender
 pronoun. Then, anyone reading can insert he/she or another option to
 their own taste.


 Interesting ... if we can come up with a nice symbol that we can agree on
 it should be doable to get it included in quite some tex related fonts (the
 group involved in maintaining them is not so large) ... and then we can set
 a standard. After all, symbols like copyright and registered made it into
 fonts and those are used (if at all) only a few times in documents and in
 unseen places.

 Maybe arthur knows if there are scripts that have such a symbol. Of course
 then there is the issue of how to pronounce it.


U+26A7 MALE WITH STROKE AND MALE AND FEMALE SIGN
?

-- 
luigi
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Grammar

2010-07-27 Thread Procházka Lukáš

... When I remove + and /^ from general gender symbols

O
+

and

  ^
 /
O

I get simply 0, so why not use this for (wo)man in general :)

Lukas


On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 15:17:51 +0200, Hans Hagen pra...@wxs.nl wrote:


On 27-7-2010 3:06, John Haltiwanger wrote:


I for one have always thought it would be interesting to develop a
Unicode character that provides a symbol representing a neutral gender
pronoun. Then, anyone reading can insert he/she or another option to
their own taste.


Interesting ... if we can come up with a nice symbol that we can agree  
on it should be doable to get it included in quite some tex related  
fonts (the group involved in maintaining them is not so large) ... and  
then we can set a standard. After all, symbols like copyright and  
registered made it into fonts and those are used (if at all) only a few  
times in documents and in unseen places.


Maybe arthur knows if there are scripts that have such a symbol. Of  
course then there is the issue of how to pronounce it.


Hans


-
   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
   Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
 tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
  | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry  
to the Wiki!


maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /  
http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context

webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___




___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Grammar

2010-07-27 Thread Arthur Reutenauer
 I for one have always thought it would be interesting to develop a
 Unicode character that provides a symbol representing a neutral gender
 pronoun.

  Unicode encodes scripts, not languages, so that's outside of its
scope.  Even if you were to develop a new character that would function
as a neutral gender pronoun in English or other languages, it would
still be attached to one (or several) language(s).  You're of course
free to advocate its use in all existing languages with a written
standard, but that would take some time ;-)  And even then, it would
leave out the vast majority of languages, those that are only spoken.

Arthur
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Grammar

2010-07-27 Thread Taco Hoekwater

On 07/27/2010 03:26 PM, Procházka Lukáš wrote:

... When I remove + and /^ from general gender symbols

O
+

and

^
/
O

I get simply 0, so why not use this for (wo)man in general :)


This actually exists as Unicode character U+26AA, but its purpose
is to mark 'sexless' which is not the quite same as gender-neutral.

Best wishes,
Taco

___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Grammar

2010-07-27 Thread David Rogers

* John Haltiwanger john.haltiwan...@gmail.com [2010-07-27 13:06]:


'Political correctness' can be onerous, and often contradictory to my
anti-authoritarian nature, but in the end it is not the Man who
issues requests for language changes so much as the marginalized
groups that take issue with existing phrasing. Afroamericans, for
instance, was deprecated sometime around that year 1984.. It all boils
down to whether you care about what the people concerned are saying,
which is why I note the author's position when I encounter it. (Rather
than throwing their paper away, ala Khaled).

This is always a contentious issue when software/coder types are
involved, one of the serious reasons why female participation in IT
(in general) and FLoSS (in particular) are so low: many men in these
circles will not, or can not, give room to critical complaints. The
problem always originates in the person complaining---they need to be
less serious, no one around here cares so stfu, etc. This is a serious
issue, and this is probably one of the least contentious starting
points for encountering it. That theory would be thrown away because
it attempts to consciously address real gender inequalities is a
depressing thought.

I for one have always thought it would be interesting to develop a
Unicode character that provides a symbol representing a neutral gender
pronoun. Then, anyone reading can insert he/she or another option to
their own taste.


That's an interesting idea, and in a way gets neatly around some of the
clumsiness of he/she and other constructions.

One of the difficulties with ALL the alternative ways of writing
pronouns, including new proposals, is that the mere use of any of them
places the writer into a sort of self-constructed ghetto. There is no
way around that that I can see, other than the hope that all other
writers adopt the same alternative way and turn it into the standard.

In the mean time, alternative constructions will continue to call
attention to the writer's personal and political views, for both good
and ill; as long as the writer's audience includes people who remember
standard English, any new pronouns (or old ones used in different ways)
become not just pronouns but part of the writer's message.

In academic writing especially, it's necessary to weigh the effect of
this distraction before using anything other than standard
constructions. Sometimes this kind of focus on the writer's personality
and politics may be welcome, or even necessary; but in some situations
it is not.

--
Thanks
David
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Grammar

2010-07-27 Thread John Haltiwanger
On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 1:31 PM, Arthur Reutenauer
arthur.reutena...@normalesup.org wrote:
 I for one have always thought it would be interesting to develop a
 Unicode character that provides a symbol representing a neutral gender
 pronoun.

  Unicode encodes scripts, not languages, so that's outside of its
 scope.  Even if you were to develop a new character that would function
 as a neutral gender pronoun in English or other languages, it would
 still be attached to one (or several) language(s).  You're of course
 free to advocate its use in all existing languages with a written
 standard, but that would take some time ;-)  And even then, it would
 leave out the vast majority of languages, those that are only spoken.

I don't see how this applies: there are plenty of characters provided
by Unicode that can be used regardless of which language I am writing
in.. such as the male/female symbols already mentioned. So in this
case, it would be a symbol for the 'language of the internet', not
simply for a single language. Some symbols are available regardless of
the general language used, correct?

Granted, I know next to nothing about font encodings, so I'll defer
here to the knowledge of others.
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Grammar

2010-07-27 Thread Hans Hagen

On 27-7-2010 4:10, David Rogers wrote:


In academic writing especially, it's necessary to weigh the effect of
this distraction before using anything other than standard
constructions. Sometimes this kind of focus on the writer's personality
and politics may be welcome, or even necessary; but in some situations
it is not.


so what do copy editors of scientific publications do when they see 
mixed (or inconsistent) usage of he/she/etc?


Hans

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
 | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Grammar

2010-07-27 Thread Arthur Reutenauer
 I don't see how this applies: there are plenty of characters provided
 by Unicode that can be used regardless of which language I am writing
 in..

  Yes, but they're symbols, not letters (nor ideographs or characters
from a syllabary, etc.); and they're even less words.  Are you
suggesting we replace some pronoun(s) by a symbol?  I don't see how that
would work.  And even if it was adopted in writing, it would inevitably
be used in speech, too, and would just as inevitably gain some
particular pronounciation in actual language(s).[*]

  such as the male/female symbols already mentioned.

  But those are symbols; they do not replace the English words “male”
and “female” nor their translation in any other language.

 So in this
 case, it would be a symbol for the 'language of the internet', not
 simply for a single language.

  That there be a “language of the Internet” is a strange notion to me.
I personally use 6 or 7 seven natural languages to communicate over the
Internet, mostly in written form (that does not include HTTP or SMTP ;-)
Whatever I read or write correspond to actual words that may be
pronounced by speakers of those languages; if I were to use the symbol
you would like to invent (and I'm not saying I wouldn't use it, if it
existed), it would have to correspond to actual words in the respective
languages, otherwise you would just have invented a way of making people
mute.

  In other words, you cannot invent a new symbol if what you want is a
new word.  They're just two different things.  Of course, you may want
to invent both at the same time.

  (I should really have asked for Saussure's _Cours de linguistique
générale_ for my birthday as I originally intended.  I would have much
more insights on the subject.  Instead, I got a grammar of Etruscan :-)

   Some symbols are available regardless of
 the general language used, correct?

  Of course, you may use any Unicode character you want in your texts.
It may make no sense, though.

 Granted, I know next to nothing about font encodings, so I'll defer
 here to the knowledge of others.

  This has nothing to do with font encodings, really.  It happens at
another conceptual level.  The issue at hand here is not technical.

Arthur

[*] It's admittedly a very specific example, but this is exactly what
happens with the Hebrew Tetragrammaton, for example
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragrammaton)
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Grammar

2010-07-27 Thread Matija Šuklje
Dne torek 27. julija 2010 ob 15:26:22 je Procházka Lukáš napisal(a):
 I get simply 0, so why not use this for (wo)man in general :)

Hmmm, this could work. You could pronounce it simply as O. I already 
represents the first person, so O shouldn't be too weird to represent the 
unisex third person, right?

Also it sounds similar to on which can be used in French (e.g. on parle).


Cheers,
Matija
-.-.-
P.S. Both homme and on in French comes from the Latin homo.
-- 
gsm: +386 41 849 552
www: http://matija.suklje.name
xmpp: matija.suk...@gabbler.org
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] 4th ConTeXt Meeting, update

2010-07-27 Thread luigi scarso
On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 3:20 PM, Jano Kula jano.k...@tiscali.cz wrote:

 Hello to everybody!

 There are few weeks left till the 4th ConTeXt Meeting on September 13-18, 
 2010 in Brejlov, Czech Republic.

 We have collected interesting talks and tutorials (25+) on ConTeXt, LuaTeX, 
 Lua, fonts, OpenType math, Metapost and more:
 http://meeting.contextgarden.net/2010/abstracts.shtml

Hey, I've just seen that there is  Wolfgang  this year...

The 2^2 Meeting  stands as  candidate to become a milestone .



--
luigi
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Grammar

2010-07-27 Thread Matija Šuklje
Dne torek 27. julija 2010 ob 15:06:27 je John Haltiwanger napisal(a):
 On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 8:47 AM, Marcin Borkowski
 
 mb...@atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl wrote:
  Hi,
  
  what an interesting discussion!
  
  My personal point of view is that the so-called political correctness
  is something I actively fight against, by means of NOT using they or
  Afroamericans or other such strange inventions.  These new words
  somehow remind me of Orwell's 1984...
 
 So what do you write instead? Negro?

Personally I feel that the political correctness has gone a bit too far, but 
where the line should be drawn, I don't know.

I can provide a few examples of where political correctness *has* gone too far 
and can actually be even counter-productive:

In Slovenia it is rude to call Bosnians Bosanci, Albanians Šiptarji and 
Gypsies Cigani and the official political correct terms for them are: 
Bošnjaki, Albanci and Romi.

With first two the problem is that they even officially call _themselves_ 
Bosanci and Šiptarji in their own language.

With the so called Roma people, the problem is even bigger, since to my 
knowledge Roma are just one of the tribes. So by having to call _all_ gypsies 
Roma, you are effectively putting one tribe in front of the others and denying 
the existence of the others.

I have nothing against any of those ethnic groups, I'm merely trying to point 
out a problem.


Cheers,
Matija
-- 
gsm: +386 41 849 552
www: http://matija.suklje.name
xmpp: matija.suk...@gabbler.org
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___