[NTG-context] latest silly question - insert unicode character?

[Mike Cooper]

Hi.  Me again.

How does one insert/use a special character?  At this particular time, I want 
Double Prime: Unicode 02BA.

How??

THANKS!


Mike Cooper
Technical Trainer
Murchison Drilling Schools, Inc.
2501 Juan Tabo NE
Albuquerque, NM 87112
Tel: (505) 293-6271
Fax: (505) 298-5294
Email: 
m...@murchisondrillingschools.com
Website: 
www.murchisondrillingschools.com
[cid:image007.jpg@01D03ADC.BD6E6850]
  [cid:image008.jpg@01D03ADC.BD6E6850] 
   
[cid:image009.jpg@01D03ADC.BD6E6850] 
Murchison Drilling Schools is now part of
[cid:image001.png@01D63515.857FD120]

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[NTG-context] .jpeg not recognised in LMTX

[Sytse Knypstra]

Today I discovered that my LMTX version (2020.06.20) does not render an 
\externalfigure with .jpeg extension. After renaming to .jpg the picture 
is correctly shown. I would suggest to add the .jpeg extension to the 
list of allowed graphic types in LMTX.


With greetings,

Sytse Knypstra

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Re: [NTG-context] spacing before items

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

> Am 24.06.2020 um 23:11 schrieb Mike Cooper 
> :
>> Most of you know I’m writing at this German ConTeXt book since years...
>> I use the incomplete version myself a lot, and I very much hope that at 
>> least every
>> second German TeX user will buy it ;)
> 
> Awesome!  Keep at it!
> Maybe when there's an English version, I'll still need it!  :-)

Even if I did plan an English version, I don’t think it will happen... First I 
need to complete the German version.

>> With TeX, footnotes, ToCs and indexes are beginner stuff, while they’re quite
>> advanced with InDesign or Word. Styling your work is much easier in a visual
>> programm – while you do it manually.
> 
> Hmmm...  I don't find those things to be at all advanced in Word.   ???

It’s easier in Word (or LibreOffice) than in InDesign, true.
Never tried to make an index in LO/Word.

But ToCs in word processors tend to get messed up, as other stuff like image 
placement.


>> May I ask what kind of job requires you to learn ConTeXt? That’s rare.
> 
> Haha!  I now work with Jan Willem Flamma (who is on this list) in the 
> training industry.  He tells me that using ConTeXt with XML will give us a 
> modularity to our training content such that a modification in one place is 
> more or less automatically taken care of for every course manual that uses 
> that content.  (At least that's my current understanding.)  So I've been 
> trying to learn ConTeXt and now slowly chipping away at coding one of our 
> smaller homework chapters.

It’s at least possible to make it efficient.

I never use XML input but mostly convert DOCX to ConTeXt and work in that.

My main job ATM is with technical documentation on a specialized LaTeX3 system: 
several similar machines, several translations, i.e. modularity pays off.

At a former job (newspaper prepress admin) I prepared training material on 
Acrobat Pro using ConTeXt; presentations and handouts in the same documents, 
using modes.


All the best,
Hraban
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Re: [NTG-context] French interface - previous message = wrong title

[Hans Hagen]

On 6/24/2020 11:01 PM, Garulfo wrote:

Hi,

I try to update and to fill the french content of mult-def.lua.

Currently, I have an updated "mult-def.lua" file. 3 questions :

1/ which commands should be executed in order to make the new local
    interface effective with context


context --make fr

btw, top lines of files can have % interface=fr


2/ which commands should be executed in order to build a local version
    of setup-fr.pdf


context --interface=fr --global --result=mysetup x-setups-overview.mkiv


3/ many commands in setup-fr.pdf are not documented in mult-def.lua
    where does the additionnal translations should come from ?

users who know the language

Hans

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: [NTG-context] error running wiki example with labels

[Jan-Erik Hägglöf]

Done som restart and font switching as proposed but still the issue is present.

labels3.tex
Description: Binary data
This is the lua error that appears inside macvim when i run :ConTeXtlua error       > lua error on line 70 in file ./labels3.tex:function call [801]: ...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv/node-syn.lua:435: attempt to index a nil value (upvalue 'filehandle’)But when I take a sample code like this it went success, strange.\mainlanguage[sv]\starttext\input tufte\page\input tufte\stoptextIs the difference when I’m running mtxrun … inside macviminstead of just context ? in the terminal24 juni 2020 kl. 21:05 skrev Jan-Erik Hägglöf :lua error       > lua error on line 70 in file ./labels3.tex:function call [801]: ...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv/node-syn.lua:435: attempt to index a nil value (upvalue 'filehandle')___
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Re: [NTG-context] spacing before items

[Mike Cooper]

> -Original Message-
> From: ntg-context [mailto:ntg-context-boun...@ntg.nl] On Behalf Of Henning
> Hraban Ramm
> Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2020 2:20 PM
> To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
> Subject: Re: [NTG-context] spacing before items
> 
> 
> 
> Most of you know I’m writing at this German ConTeXt book since years...
> I use the incomplete version myself a lot, and I very much hope that at least 
> every
> second German TeX user will buy it ;)

Awesome!  Keep at it!
Maybe when there's an English version, I'll still need it!  :-)


> 
> Googling is necessary and helpful for LaTeX, but there aren’t so many blog or
> forum entries about ConTeXt.

Yes, this has been kind of frustrating too.  It's certainly challenged my 
searching skills to find and separate ConTeXt from LaTeX.


> 
> With TeX, footnotes, ToCs and indexes are beginner stuff, while they’re quite
> advanced with InDesign or Word. Styling your work is much easier in a visual
> programm – while you do it manually.

Hmmm...  I don't find those things to be at all advanced in Word.   ???


> 
> There is more beginner level documentation for ConTeXt than for ObjC, but we 
> still
> assume a basic familiarity with TeX and principles of design and typography.

Yes, this is exactly what I've found in just about everything labeled 
"beginner" or "basic" for ConTeXt documentation.  Maybe it would be "beginner" 
for someone who already knows some other typesetting code...  The best beginner 
thing I found was Willi Egger's "ConTeXt for Beginners" (TUGboat, Volume 38 
(2017), No. 3).  Only it's too short!  And I think my own background in 
HTML/CSS made it easier than it would be for someone who comes from an 
average-Word-user background.


> 
> >>I spent my whole day yesterday figuring out how to do some very basic
> >> formatting/layout that would have taken 5-10 minutes in Word or HTML/CSS.
> 
> But I’m quite sure if you figured it out on your own, you know how to do it 
> next
> time. Or if you forget, you can look for your own solution (I recur to my old
> environments all the time).

Yes, that at least is a consolation!


> 
> May I ask what kind of job requires you to learn ConTeXt? That’s rare.

Haha!  I now work with Jan Willem Flamma (who is on this list) in the training 
industry.  He tells me that using ConTeXt with XML will give us a modularity to 
our training content such that a modification in one place is more or less 
automatically taken care of for every course manual that uses that content.  
(At least that's my current understanding.)  So I've been trying to learn 
ConTeXt and now slowly chipping away at coding one of our smaller homework 
chapters.


> 
> > I've always found w3chools.com to be especially helpful with HTML/CSS
> because they give plenty of examples and explanation.
> 
> Please don’t use w3fools! It’s full of errors and bad practice. (At least it 
> was some
> years before; I can’t imagine it got fundamentally better.)

Oh interesting!  I've always found it very helpful.  Probably, I haven't 
attempted the more advanced features/coding.  ??


> 
> > 
>   I spent *days* trying to figure out how to add more whitespace
> around a floated graphic (the default is too cramped in my opinion).  I 
> finally just
> threw up my hands and decided that no one else has this opinion but me so
> nobody has ever "fixed" it and thus, no solution exists.
> 
> Hm, did you try the margin options of
> https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Command/setupfloat ?

I don't remember what all I tried at this point.  I think it's been over two 
months since I just gave up on that one.  I'll take another look.  Thanks!


> 
> The learning curve *is* steep and stays steep for a long while, depending on 
> your
> requirements.
> 
> 
> Good luck!
> Hraban

THANKS HRABAN!!


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[NTG-context] French interface - previous message = wrong title

[Garulfo]

Hi,

I try to update and to fill the french content of mult-def.lua.

Currently, I have an updated "mult-def.lua" file. 3 questions :

1/ which commands should be executed in order to make the new local
   interface effective with context

2/ which commands should be executed in order to build a local version
   of setup-fr.pdf

3/ many commands in setup-fr.pdf are not documented in mult-def.lua
   where does the additionnal translations should come from ?

Thanks a lot for your precious help.
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Re: [NTG-context] spacing before items

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

> Am 24.06.2020 um 19:41 schrieb Mike Cooper 
> :
>> 
>> Indeed. It's all volunteer work that doesn't pay the bills. Sitting down
>> and starting to write a big manual simply doesn't pay off so it has to
>> happen in free time. And that being the case, it is more attactive to
>> work on some new challenge.
>> 
>> Concerning manuals: I sometimes wonder if they are really read. So, how
>> to set up one that works for all, build up explanations, etc ... isn't
>> it more about googling a solution nowadays (ok, not entirely true i
>> guess, as one then has to learn how to distinguish the wrong solutions
>> from the good, but i suppose one can just test it).

Most of you know I’m writing at this German ConTeXt book since years...
I use the incomplete version myself a lot, and I very much hope that at least 
every second German TeX user will buy it ;)

And of course it’s a lot of work – while Hans, Wolfgang and Taco (and a few 
otehrs) know their code, I must look up every option, try to find a short 
description or come up with a test case, so that I understand what’s going on 
to write it down for others. (Often parallelly for the book in Germand and for 
the wiki in English.)
And far too often I give up because I can’t make something work – mostly 
because I didn’t understand some fundamental concept (expansion...), but 
sometimes features just don’t work as advertised/documented (like columnsets).

Googling is necessary and helpful for LaTeX, but there aren’t so many blog or 
forum entries about ConTeXt.

> I started out maybe a little bit hodge-podge, looking through some 
> documentation recommended to me.  The basic concept is very straightforward.  
> No problem.  But implementation has been extremely challenging (but it's 
> probably just me!).  Then I was pointed to Henri Menke's "Definitive Guide" 
> post.  I read the entire Excursion (though I confess I did not *practice* as 
> I went along (partly because SciTe was such a pain)).  The Excursion is not 
> for (true) beginners.  And, no offense, but I thought it was poorly typeset 
> as well...

I think it doesn’t make a lot of sense to try to understand the whole thing at 
once.
You need to start small with a project and some basic structuring, then add 
your style requirements one after the other.

If you come from a layout background like me, some “advanced“ stuff is really 
easy in ConTeXt, while seemingly basic stuff is very hard.
The mindset of a command-based typesetting system is fundamentally different 
from that of a layout program or word processor – even if you can do a lot of 
the same tasks with each.

> Then I went through Aditya's "amazing tutorial" (mostly with a good bit of 
> help from Aditya just to be able to get started!) and definitely learned 
> more.  But at the end I felt like it was mostly an exercise in "slow-motion 
> copy/paste" (I retyped all the code).  Of course, when I got the code right, 
> I got the intended output.  I did fiddle with options a little bit as I went. 
>  No doubt, I should have done more.  There was too much of what I had 
> "successfully" done that I still didn't really understand at the end of it.

A typesetting system like ConTeXt is as much a tool for professionals as a 
layout program like InDesign. And even a word processor is better used by 
professionals who understand what they’re doing.

Each system is also usable by beginners (TeX not so much) – but they can’t 
expect to get professional results immediately.

With TeX, footnotes, ToCs and indexes are beginner stuff, while they’re quite 
advanced with InDesign or Word. Styling your work is much easier in a visual 
programm – while you do it manually.

For ConTeXt you need on one hand the mindset of a programmer, on the other hand 
that of a media designer.
Using LaTeX you can choose a readymade style (class), but with ConTeXt you 
define your own – it’s easier, but still challenging.

I think ConTeXt has a similar problem as Objective C: It might be superior to 
C++, but every introduction into ObjC assumes you are familiar with ANSI C or 
C++. But if ObjC is so great, why should I bother learning the other?
Most ConTeXt users used LaTeX or plain TeX before. They have to re-learn a lot, 
but they know a bit about how TeX thinks and works, and they know the 
limitations of LaTeX.
There is more beginner level documentation for ConTeXt than for ObjC, but we 
still assume a basic familiarity with TeX and principles of design and 
typography.

With my book I’m trying to start without prior knowledge, even if I know most 
of my readers will come from LaTeX.
But I still include sections about working on the command line or choosing a 
text editor and a lot of basic design/typography knowledge. I want it to really 
enable someone with usual office experience to start with ConTeXt. On the other 
hand I’d like to show what’s possible and what I find interesting.

And that leads to:

>> It has been said before: one can have manuals, wikis, mailing 

Re: [NTG-context] Checking for singlesided/doublesided at run-time

[Garulfo]

Hi,

I try to update and to fill the french content of mult-def.lua.

Currently, I have an updated "mult-def.lua" file. 3 questions :

1/ which commands should be executed in order to make the new local
   interface effective with context

2/ which commands should be executed in order to build a local version
   of setup-fr.pdf

3/ many commands in setup-fr.pdf are not documented in mult-def.lua
   where does the additionnal translations should come from ?

Thanks a lot for your precious help.

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Re: [NTG-context] error running wiki example with labels

[Jan-Erik Hägglöf]

From the terminal running context it works fine but the problem appeared inside 
macvim so it seems to be related to macvim.

> 24 juni 2020 kl. 21:24 skrev Aditya Mahajan :
> 
> On Wed, 24 Jun 2020, Jan-Erik Hägglöf wrote:
> 
>> Hello All!
>> 
>> In the page https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Labels 
>> 
>> 
>> I’ve tried with no success to run those examples given at the page. The 
>> error complaint as the log shows below
> 
> Works okay here with both MkIV (version 2020.05.25) and LTMX (2020.06.10).
> 
>> open source > level 1, order 1, name 'cont-yes.mkiv'
>> system  >
>> system  > ConTeXt  ver: 2020.03.10 14:52 MKIV beta  fmt: 2020.4.13  
>> int: english/english
> 
> Might be a temporary bug. Could you update and try again?
> 
> Aditya___
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Re: [NTG-context] error running wiki example with labels

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Jan-Erik Hägglöf schrieb am 24.06.2020 um 21:05:

Hello All!

In the page https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Labels

I’ve tried with no success to run those examples given at the page. The 
error complaint as the log shows below


Can you comment (or remove) the following two lines which load the IBM 
Plex fonts.


\usetypescriptfile  [plex]
\setupbodyfont  [ibmplex,ss,11pt]

Wolfgang
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Re: [NTG-context] explain please

[Hans van der Meer]

\\currentdate 
Neat solution, worked without a hitch. Now I have to remember this for future 
use ...

dr. Hans van der Meer


> On 24 Jun 2020, at 21:10, Hans Hagen  wrote:
> 
> On 6/24/2020 9:00 PM, Hans van der Meer wrote:
>> How can the crash in the minimal example here be explained? And is there a 
>> solution to avoid this and make the crash going away "without having to jump 
>> through special hoops"?
> because \currentdate is a macro thatv does some magic ... it's nor fully 
> expandable
> 
> so, lua sees \currentdate == \c as first escaped character coming in and 
> that's invalid (\\currentdate would work)
> 
> just try
> 
> print("\come on") in pure lua
> 
> Hans
> 
> 
> -
>  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -

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Re: [NTG-context] error running wiki example with labels

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Wed, 24 Jun 2020, Jan-Erik Hägglöf wrote:


Hello All!

In the page https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Labels 


I’ve tried with no success to run those examples given at the page. The error 
complaint as the log shows below


Works okay here with both MkIV (version 2020.05.25) and LTMX (2020.06.10).


open source > level 1, order 1, name 'cont-yes.mkiv'
system  >
system  > ConTeXt  ver: 2020.03.10 14:52 MKIV beta  fmt: 2020.4.13  
int: english/english


Might be a temporary bug. Could you update and try again?

Aditya___
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[NTG-context] error running wiki example with labels

[Jan-Erik Hägglöf]

Hello All!

In the page https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Labels 


I’ve tried with no success to run those examples given at the page. The error 
complaint as the log shows below

return {
 ["filename"]="./labels3.tex",
 ["lastluaerror"]="function call [801]: 
...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv/node-syn.lua:435: attempt to 
index a nil value (upvalue 'filehandle')",
 ["lasttexerror"]="?",
 ["linenumber"]=70,
 ["luaerrorline"]="435",
 ["offset"]=10,
}

open source > level 1, order 1, name 'cont-yes.mkiv'
system  > 
system  > ConTeXt  ver: 2020.03.10 14:52 MKIV beta  fmt: 2020.4.13  
int: english/english
system  > 
system  > 'cont-new.mkiv' loaded
open source > level 2, order 2, name 
'/Users/janneman/context-osx-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv/cont-new.mkiv'
system  > beware: some patches loaded from cont-new.mkiv
close source> level 2, order 2, name 
'/Users/janneman/context-osx-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv/cont-new.mkiv'

system  > files > jobname 'labels3', input './labels3', result 'labels3'
fonts   > latin modern fonts are not preloaded
languages   > language 'en' is active
system  > synctex functionality is enabled, expect 5-10 pct runtime 
overhead!
open source > level 2, order 3, name './labels3.tex'
open source > level 3, order 4, name 
'/Users/janneman/context-osx-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/fonts/mkiv/type-imp-plex.mkiv'
open source > level 4, order 5, name 
'/Users/janneman/context-osx-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/fonts/mkiv/type-imp-texgyre.mkiv'
close source> level 4, order 5, name 
'/Users/janneman/context-osx-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/fonts/mkiv/type-imp-texgyre.mkiv'
close source> level 3, order 5, name 
'/Users/janneman/context-osx-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/fonts/mkiv/type-imp-plex.mkiv'
fonts   > defining > font with asked name 'IBMPlexSans-regular' is not 
found using lookup 'file'
fonts   > defining > unknown font 'IBMPlexSans-regular', loading aborted
fonts   > defining > unable to define 'IBMPlexSans-regular' as 
'ibmplex-11pt-ss-tf-0--0'
open source > level 3, order 6, name 
'/Users/janneman/context-osx-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv/meta-imp-dum.mkiv'
close source> level 3, order 6, name 
'/Users/janneman/context-osx-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv/meta-imp-dum.mkiv'
metapost> library 'dum' is loaded
metapost> initializing instance 'metafun:1' using format 'metafun' and 
method 'default'
metapost> loading 'metafun' as 
'/Users/janneman/context-osx-64/tex/texmf-context/metapost/context/base/mpiv/metafun.mpxl'
 using method 'default'
metapost> initializing number mode 'scaled'
metapost log> 
metapost log> loading metafun, including plain.mp version 1.004 for metafun 
iv and xl
metapost log> 
fonts   > bodyfont '14pt' is defined (can better be done global)
fonts   > bodyfont '16.8pt' is defined (can better be done global)
fonts   > bodyfont '11.2pt' is defined (can better be done global)
fonts   > defining > font with asked name 'IBMPlexSans-regular' is not 
found using lookup 'file'
fonts   > defining > unknown font 'IBMPlexSans-regular', loading aborted
fonts   > defining > unable to define 'IBMPlexSans-regular' as 
'ibmplex-14pt-ss-tf-0--0'

lua error   > lua error on line 70 in file ./labels3.tex:

function call [801]: 
...-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv/node-syn.lua:435: attempt to 
index a nil value (upvalue 'filehandle')

60 \setlayer[BG][
61   preset=leftbottom,
62   hoffset=5mm,
63   voffset=3mm]{%
64   the context group}
65 
66 \starttext
67 \startlines
68 \Name{Hans Hägar}
69 \Title{CEO · R}
70 >>  \page
71 
72 \Name{Wolf Schmidt}
73 \Title{0th Level Support}
74 \page
75 
76 \Name{Mocca Bob}
77 \Title{the Builder}
78 \page
79 
80 \Name{A. Rockefeller}

It seems to complain with the \page command

Jan-Eriks-Air: ~/Google Drive/PRIVAT janneman > context --version
mtx-context | ConTeXt Process Management 1.03
mtx-context |
mtx-context | main context file: 
/Users/janneman/context-osx-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv/context.mkiv
mtx-context | current version: 2019.07.24 11:31
mtx-context | main context file: 
/Users/janneman/context-osx-64/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv/context.mkxl
mtx-context | current version: 2020.03.10 14:52









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Re: [NTG-context] explain please

[Hans Hagen]

On 6/24/2020 9:00 PM, Hans van der Meer wrote:
How can the crash in the minimal example here be explained? And is there 
a solution to avoid this and make the crash going away "without having 
to jump through special hoops"?
because \currentdate is a macro thatv does some magic ... it's nor fully 
expandable


so, lua sees \currentdate == \c as first escaped character coming in and 
that's invalid (\\currentdate would work)


just try

print("\come on") in pure lua

Hans


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Re: [NTG-context] \asciimode and \type{%%}

[Hans Hagen]

On 6/24/2020 7:59 PM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

Hans Hagen schrieb am 24.06.2020 um 19:06:

On 6/24/2020 6:33 PM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

Hi,

when asciimode is enabled the \type command ignores double comment 
symbols.


\starttext

\quotation{\type{%}}

\quotation{\type{%%}}

\asciimode

\quotation{\type{%}}

\quotation{\type{%%}}

\stoptext


It's actually a feature: in ascimode double % is the comment and 
content is preprocessed. originally asciimode was just for math and we 
still wanted a way to have comments.


I can't remember the details when the command was added (I know there 
was \nonknuthmode) but in this example it works in a unexpected way (the 
% are removed but the following text is kept).


There is no need for \asciimode in my document but I use it sometimes 
when I have symbols I don't want to replace.


It's a side effect of buffers: each \type ends up in a buffer and that 
actually is a file on its own.



But ... we can have

\unexpanded\def\literalmode{\setcatcodetable\txtcatcodes}

and then:

[...]

I'll add that command, assuming that someone will document it somewhere.


Not really needed in this case but I'm going to document it.

I already bet on that -)

Hans

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[NTG-context] explain please

[Hans van der Meer]

How can the crash in the minimal example here be explained? And is there a solution to avoid this and make the crash going away "without having to jump through special hoops"?
dr. Hans van der Meer



currentdate.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document


currentdate.tex
Description: Binary data
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Re: [NTG-context] \asciimode and \type{%%}

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Hans Hagen schrieb am 24.06.2020 um 19:06:

On 6/24/2020 6:33 PM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

Hi,

when asciimode is enabled the \type command ignores double comment 
symbols.


\starttext

\quotation{\type{%}}

\quotation{\type{%%}}

\asciimode

\quotation{\type{%}}

\quotation{\type{%%}}

\stoptext


It's actually a feature: in ascimode double % is the comment and 
content is preprocessed. originally asciimode was just for math and we 
still wanted a way to have comments.


I can't remember the details when the command was added (I know there 
was \nonknuthmode) but in this example it works in a unexpected way (the 
% are removed but the following text is kept).


There is no need for \asciimode in my document but I use it sometimes 
when I have symbols I don't want to replace.



But ... we can have

\unexpanded\def\literalmode{\setcatcodetable\txtcatcodes}

and then:

[...]

I'll add that command, assuming that someone will document it somewhere.


Not really needed in this case but I'm going to document it.

Wolfgang

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Re: [NTG-context] spacing before items

[Mike Cooper]

> -Original Message-
> From: ntg-context [mailto:ntg-context-boun...@ntg.nl] On Behalf Of Hans Hagen
> Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2020 12:50 AM
> To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
> Subject: Re: [NTG-context] spacing before items
> 
> On 6/24/2020 12:00 AM, Mike Cooper wrote:
> >
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: On Behalf Of David Rogers
> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2020 3:18 PM
> >>
> >>
> >> Mike Cooper  writes:
> >>
> >>> Thanks Tomáš!
> >>>
> >>> 1.  Where can this solution be found?
> >>
> >>
> >> Mike, I know how you feel. 
> 
>  >> David
> 
> Indeed. It's all volunteer work that doesn't pay the bills. Sitting down
> and starting to write a big manual simply doesn't pay off so it has to
> happen in free time. And that being the case, it is more attactive to
> work on some new challenge.
> 
> Concerning manuals: I sometimes wonder if they are really read. So, how
> to set up one that works for all, build up explanations, etc ... isn't
> it more about googling a solution nowadays (ok, not entirely true i
> guess, as one then has to learn how to distinguish the wrong solutions
> from the good, but i suppose one can just test it).

I started out maybe a little bit hodge-podge, looking through some 
documentation recommended to me.  The basic concept is very straightforward.  
No problem.  But implementation has been extremely challenging (but it's 
probably just me!).  Then I was pointed to Henri Menke's "Definitive Guide" 
post.  I read the entire Excursion (though I confess I did not *practice* as I 
went along (partly because SciTe was such a pain)).  The Excursion is not for 
(true) beginners.  And, no offense, but I thought it was poorly typeset as 
well...

Then I went through Aditya's "amazing tutorial" (mostly with a good bit of help 
from Aditya just to be able to get started!) and definitely learned more.  But 
at the end I felt like it was mostly an exercise in "slow-motion copy/paste" (I 
retyped all the code).  Of course, when I got the code right, I got the 
intended output.  I did fiddle with options a little bit as I went.  No doubt, 
I should have done more.  There was too much of what I had "successfully" done 
that I still didn't really understand at the end of it.


> 
> It has been said before: one can have manuals, wikis, mailing lists,
> journals ... once they cross the beginners level they also become large
> and hard to navigate. One can have 'beginners' and 'advanced' but who
> wants to be a 'beginner' ... when is the line crossed. Maybe on the wiky
> we should actually have that distinction.
> 
> > Thanks David!
> >
> > I don't think I've ever been quite so frustrated at trying to learn 
> > anything else in
> my life!  If it wasn't required by my job, I wouldn't have made it past the 
> first day or
> two (3 months ago).  But I'm slogging away and it's gradually coming together 
> (I
> think).  I spent my whole day yesterday figuring out how to do some very basic
> formatting/layout that would have taken 5-10 minutes in Word or HTML/CSS.
> >
> > People have been very helpful and patient with me!!  Thanks to all of you 
> > for
> that!
> 
> Let me challenge you: how would your solution translate to a wiki page
> for a beginner with the sam eproblem to solve ... content but also the
> 'how to get there aspect'

This is more general than about "my specific problem".  There have been a 
number of different ones.  They are all basic formatting/layout.  I've resorted 
to asking about a couple of them on the mailing list after no joy anywhere else.

Off the top of my head, I would suggest more explanation/description and 
especially more examples of what each option/key/whatever does.  I've always 
found w3chools.com to be especially helpful with HTML/CSS because they give 
plenty of examples and explanation.

I don't know if it's really feasible to do anything about it but another thing 
is the jargon.  I probably mainly think in terms of HTML/CSS lingo and then MS 
Word.  When I hunt through the wiki or the manuals or Google for solutions, I 
naturally use the terms I know.  But it seems that the things I've wanted are 
referred to differently in ConTeXt.  I spent *days* trying to figure out how to 
add more whitespace around a floated graphic (the default is too cramped in my 
opinion).  I finally just threw up my hands and decided that no one else has 
this opinion but me so nobody has ever "fixed" it and thus, no solution exists.


> 
> > And thanks David for this explanation of the situation.
> There are a couple of things that you need to keep in mind when you
> start with something like context:
> 
> - you often bring with your experience (and exposure) to different
> systems and these don't translate; recently i was playing with some css
> setup for a rather complex xml -> html mapping and things that would
> have taken me 5 minutes in tex costs me plenty of time in css due to all
> kind of interactions; just as with tex, one can end up with hacks 

Re: [NTG-context] \asciimode and \type{%%}

[Hans Hagen]

On 6/24/2020 6:33 PM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

Hi,

when asciimode is enabled the \type command ignores double comment symbols.

\starttext

\quotation{\type{%}}

\quotation{\type{%%}}

\asciimode

\quotation{\type{%}}

\quotation{\type{%%}}

\stoptext


It's actually a feature: in ascimode double % is the comment and content 
is preprocessed. originally asciimode was just for math and we still 
wanted a way to have comments.


But ... we can have

\unexpanded\def\literalmode{\setcatcodetable\txtcatcodes}

and then:

\starttext

\quotation{\type{%}}

\quotation{\type{%%}}

\literalmode

\quotation{\type{%}}

\quotation{\type{%%}}

test 10% test

\stoptext

I'll add that command, assuming that someone will document it somewhere.

Hans

-
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  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
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[NTG-context] \asciimode and \type{%%}

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Hi,

when asciimode is enabled the \type command ignores double comment symbols.

\starttext

\quotation{\type{%}}

\quotation{\type{%%}}

\asciimode

\quotation{\type{%}}

\quotation{\type{%%}}

\stoptext

Wolfgang

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Re: [NTG-context] Checking for singlesided/doublesided at run-time

[Lukas/ConTeXt]

Hello,




I've just been noticed about wiki update related to *singlesided and *
doublesided modes.




Thank you, Wolfgang and Aditya, for answering and filling in the wiki.




Best regards,




Lukas




-- Původní e-mail --
Od: Wolfgang Schuster 
Komu: mailing list for ConTeXt users 
Datum: 24. 6. 2020 15:08:33
Předmět: Re: [NTG-context] Checking for singlesided/doublesided at run-time
"Lukas/ConTeXt schrieb am 24.06.2020 um 08:19:
> Hello,
>
> is there a way to detect whether the document is intended as single- or 
double- sided, IOW, whether
> \setuppagenumbering[alternative=singlesided]
> or
> \setuppagenumbering[alternative=doublesided]
> has been specified?
>
> If so, is it possible by Lua, too?

%\setuppagenumbering[alternative=singlesided]
%\setuppagenumbering[alternative=doublesided]
%\setuppagenumbering[alternative={singlesided,doublesided}]

\starttext

\doifmode{*singlesided}{a}
\doifmode{*doublesided}{b}

\startluacode

if tex.modes["*singlesided"] then
context("x")
end

if tex.modes["*doublesided"] then
context("y")
end

\stopluacode

\stoptext

Wolfgang
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Re: [NTG-context] Checking for singlesided/doublesided at run-time

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

> Am 24.06.2020 um 15:48 schrieb Aditya Mahajan :
> 
> On Wed, 24 Jun 2020, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I wanted to refer to the mmodes manual, but it’s gone.
>> Was it accidentally removed, or are modes now explained in some other 
>> manual? I didn’t find it.
> 
> http://www.pragma-ade.com/general/manuals/mmodes.pdf

Thank you, but it was in the distribution previously. Is it outdated?

HR
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Re: [NTG-context] Checking for singlesided/doublesided at run-time

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Wed, 24 Jun 2020, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:



I wanted to refer to the mmodes manual, but it’s gone.
Was it accidentally removed, or are modes now explained in some other manual? I 
didn’t find it.


http://www.pragma-ade.com/general/manuals/mmodes.pdf

and my tugboat article wikified at:
https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Modes

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Re: [NTG-context] Checking for singlesided/doublesided at run-time

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Lukas/ConTeXt schrieb am 24.06.2020 um 08:19:

Hello,

is there a way to detect whether the document is intended as single- or double- 
sided, IOW, whether
   \setuppagenumbering[alternative=singlesided]
or
   \setuppagenumbering[alternative=doublesided]
has been specified?

If so, is it possible by Lua, too?


%\setuppagenumbering[alternative=singlesided]
%\setuppagenumbering[alternative=doublesided]
%\setuppagenumbering[alternative={singlesided,doublesided}]

\starttext

\doifmode{*singlesided}{a}
\doifmode{*doublesided}{b}

\startluacode

if tex.modes["*singlesided"] then
context("x")
end

if tex.modes["*doublesided"] then
context("y")
end

\stopluacode

\stoptext

Wolfgang

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Re: [NTG-context] Automatic userdata storage between runs

[Hans Hagen]

On 6/24/2020 8:54 AM, Lukas/ConTeXt wrote:

Hello,

first - thanks for the perfectly synoptical
   https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Programming_in_LuaTeX#Namespaces !

My question (and the answer sould appear on wiki, too):

Is any of the namespaces (userdata, thirddata, moduledata, documentdata, 
parametersets) automatically serialized between Ctx first(-second(-third)) runs?


no, if only because they are not meant to store runtime data


I'm asking because user may call some (longer) code and put the result into a namespace (be it e.g. 
"userdata"). And if that namespace was automatically serialized for next run(s), that 
code could be called conditionally - typically just in first run (= mode "*first" 
enabled) - as in next runs results of the additional code would be available in a namespace 
(instead of repetitive call of that (longer) code).

Of course, user can perform such evaluation, storage and conditional 
extra-code-call individually, but maybe there is some support for similar 
situations in Ctx.
there is a twopassdata mechanism for storing stuff but other than that 
you can just write to a file and then check that (depending on what run 
you have)


Hans


-
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Re: [NTG-context] Checking for singlesided/doublesided at run-time

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

> Am 24.06.2020 um 08:19 schrieb Lukas/ConTeXt :
> 
> Hello,
> 
> is there a way to detect whether the document is intended as single- or 
> double- sided, IOW, whether 
>  \setuppagenumbering[alternative=singlesided]
> or
>  \setuppagenumbering[alternative=doublesided]
> has been specified?
> 
> If so, is it possible by Lua, too?


I wanted to refer to the mmodes manual, but it’s gone.
Was it accidentally removed, or are modes now explained in some other manual? I 
didn’t find it.

Hraban
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[NTG-context] Automatic userdata storage between runs

[Lukas/ConTeXt]

Hello,

first - thanks for the perfectly synoptical
  https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Programming_in_LuaTeX#Namespaces !

My question (and the answer sould appear on wiki, too):

Is any of the namespaces (userdata, thirddata, moduledata, documentdata, 
parametersets) automatically serialized between Ctx first(-second(-third)) runs?

I'm asking because user may call some (longer) code and put the result into a 
namespace (be it e.g. "userdata"). And if that namespace was automatically 
serialized for next run(s), that code could be called conditionally - typically 
just in first run (= mode "*first" enabled) - as in next runs results of the 
additional code would be available in a namespace (instead of repetitive call 
of that (longer) code).

Of course, user can perform such evaluation, storage and conditional 
extra-code-call individually, but maybe there is some support for similar 
situations in Ctx.

Best regards,

Lukas

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Re: [NTG-context] spacing before items

[Hans Hagen]

On 6/24/2020 12:00 AM, Mike Cooper wrote:




-Original Message-
From: On Behalf Of David Rogers
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2020 3:18 PM


Mike Cooper  writes:


Thanks Tomáš!

1.  Where can this solution be found?



Mike, I know how you feel. The reasons that the documentation is
so sparse and difficult to find are the same reasons behind a lot
of things: time, money, and ability. Good documentation requires
all three of those things to be brought together at the same time.
Some people reading and responding here have two out of the three,
but it's rare to find someone who has all three at the same time.

On second thought, there are at least five things required: time,
money, ability, desire, and a workable plan. And with ConTeXt
being developed by a relatively tiny group, even if a brilliant
and kind organizer came along and said "I want excellent
documentation for ConTeXt, and I'll pay a fortune to the person
who knows how to write it - see, here's the money" - there's no
way of guaranteeing that someone would actually take the offer.


>> David

Indeed. It's all volunteer work that doesn't pay the bills. Sitting down 
and starting to write a big manual simply doesn't pay off so it has to 
happen in free time. And that being the case, it is more attactive to 
work on some new challenge.


Concerning manuals: I sometimes wonder if they are really read. So, how 
to set up one that works for all, build up explanations, etc ... isn't 
it more about googling a solution nowadays (ok, not entirely true i 
guess, as one then has to learn how to distinguish the wrong solutions 
from the good, but i suppose one can just test it).


It has been said before: one can have manuals, wikis, mailing lists, 
journals ... once they cross the beginners level they also become large 
and hard to navigate. One can have 'beginners' and 'advanced' but who 
wants to be a 'beginner' ... when is the line crossed. Maybe on the wiky 
we should actually have that distinction.



Thanks David!

I don't think I've ever been quite so frustrated at trying to learn anything 
else in my life!  If it wasn't required by my job, I wouldn't have made it past 
the first day or two (3 months ago).  But I'm slogging away and it's gradually 
coming together (I think).  I spent my whole day yesterday figuring out how to 
do some very basic formatting/layout that would have taken 5-10 minutes in Word 
or HTML/CSS.

People have been very helpful and patient with me!!  Thanks to all of you for 
that!


Let me challenge you: how would your solution translate to a wiki page 
for a beginner with the sam eproblem to solve ... content but also the 
'how to get there aspect'



And thanks David for this explanation of the situation.
There are a couple of things that you need to keep in mind when you 
start with something like context:


- you often bring with your experience (and exposure) to different 
systems and these don't translate; recently i was playing with some css 
setup for a rather complex xml -> html mapping and things that would 
have taken me 5 minutes in tex costs me plenty of time in css due to all 
kind of interactions; just as with tex, one can end up with hacks found 
on the web (it was hobyism of course)


- often one starts using something like tex in order to do something 
that is not really 'beginners' stuff (cue: always test something new or 
explore a command in a one page small test file!) .. the extremes are: i 
do this complex book layout in 'indesign' (manual work) but how can i do 
it (fully automatic) in tex (and i have to have it running next week) 
and btw, i have xml inout that has flaws


- in typesetting all kind of mechanisms are involved, it's an ecosystem 
and all can work with all and interfere with all ... comparing with 
word/css is a bit tricky as tex systems are meant for automatic flows 
(with of course local tuning but then we enter 
what-you-program-is-what-you-get) and dtp is klick and point and choices 
on the spot .. i think one can safely say that tex has a longer learning 
curve but that gets compensated in the end (it compares to typing: who 
takes a few week typing course in order to benefit later ... most start 
with two fingers and do that their whole live) .. tex has been qualified 
as a live-long toolkit: it takes a while but after that you use if your 
whole live (which is posisble because it stays around)


- if one is happy with word and it does what it does better and faster 
.. don't use tex; i admit that i never used word but then, i never had 
to make documents of that kind (just like i alway suse metapost and 
never used a drawing program as i never needed that kind of graphics)


- in context you need to think rather minimalistic: most styles can 
actually be rather small once you realize that a lot of configuration 
keys are similar (there is no need to document 'before' or 'style' with 
each comand ... most beginners styles have too much code


- in addition to manuals (the ones 

[NTG-context] Checking for singlesided/doublesided at run-time

[Lukas/ConTeXt]

Hello,

is there a way to detect whether the document is intended as single- or double- 
sided, IOW, whether 
  \setuppagenumbering[alternative=singlesided]
or
  \setuppagenumbering[alternative=doublesided]
has been specified?

If so, is it possible by Lua, too?

Regards,

Lukas
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