Re: [NTG-context] Asian Language Support

2012-05-09 Thread KUROKI Yusuke
I have realized a slight typo was included in Fig3_5.txt.
The corrected one is attached to this mail.

Hans,
Japanese opening “ should be treated as opening 「, and
closing ” should be treated as closing 」, in the meaning of
spacing and line-breaking.

Thanks,
-- Yusuke.

2012/5/8 KUROKI Yusuke kur...@users.sourceforge.jp:
 I am attaching five test files including Fig. 3.1, 3.2, 3.3
 in http://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/ .  All files but
 Fig3_1-different-linebreaks.txt, the positions of linebreaks
 are the same as the examples.  In writing a manuscript,
 we will make linebreaks depending on its context, then
 the same results are required from the different sources,
 Fig3_1.txt and Fig3_1-different-linebreaks.txt  .

 Yusuke.


 (2012/05/08 0:54), Hans Hagen wrote:

 On 7-5-2012 15:17, KUROKI Yusuke wrote:

 What the timing you choose to post this message!
 Several days ago, I, Japanese, firstly met Hans and had
 a lecture about Japanese typography and typesetting.
 Now it is the duration to prepare to think about Japanese
 typesetting in ConTeXt. It is note that hanzi option of
 ConTeXt is ugly for Japanese typesetting, it must come from
 some Chinese typesetting custom.


 We need to define a handler similar to chinese and korean, but with
 japanese rules etc. I will make a basic setup so that we have a starting
 point.

 It would be handy to have some test files. For instance, in
 http://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/ the text in fig 3.1, 3.2, 3.3 which has mixed
 punctuation etc.

 Hans

 -
 Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
 Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
 tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
 | www.pragma-pod.nl
 -



 --
 黒木 裕介 (KUROKI Yusuke)
 kuroky(at)users.sourceforge.jp
 http://ptetexwin.sourceforge.jp/



-- 
黒木 裕介 (KUROKI Yusuke)
日本語の表記では“漢字”や“仮名”だけで
なく,“ローマ字”や“アラビア数字”,さら
に“句読点”や“括弧類”などの記述記号を
用いる.
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___

Re: [NTG-context] Asian Language Support

2012-05-08 Thread KUROKI Yusuke

I am attaching five test files including Fig. 3.1, 3.2, 3.3
in http://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/ .  All files but
Fig3_1-different-linebreaks.txt, the positions of linebreaks
are the same as the examples.  In writing a manuscript,
we will make linebreaks depending on its context, then
the same results are required from the different sources,
Fig3_1.txt and Fig3_1-different-linebreaks.txt  .

Yusuke.

(2012/05/08 0:54), Hans Hagen wrote:

On 7-5-2012 15:17, KUROKI Yusuke wrote:


What the timing you choose to post this message!
Several days ago, I, Japanese, firstly met Hans and had
a lecture about Japanese typography and typesetting.
Now it is the duration to prepare to think about Japanese
typesetting in ConTeXt. It is note that hanzi option of
ConTeXt is ugly for Japanese typesetting, it must come from
some Chinese typesetting custom.


We need to define a handler similar to chinese and korean, but with japanese 
rules etc. I will make a basic setup so that we have a starting point.

It would be handy to have some test files. For instance, in 
http://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/ the text in fig 3.1, 3.2, 3.3 which has mixed 
punctuation etc.

Hans

-
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
| www.pragma-pod.nl
-



--
黒木 裕介 (KUROKI Yusuke)
kuroky(at)users.sourceforge.jp
http://ptetexwin.sourceforge.jp/
日本語の表記においては,漢字や仮名だけで
なく,ローマ字やアラビア数字,さらに句読
点や括弧類などの記述記号を用いる.これら
を組み合わせて表す日本語の文章では,表記
上における種々の問題がある.
日本語の表記においては,漢字や仮名だけでなく,
ローマ字やアラビア数字,さらに句読点や括弧類などの
記述記号を用いる.
これらを組み合わせて表す日本語の文章では,表記上に
おける種々の問題がある.
日本語の表記においては,漢字や仮名だけで
なく,ローマ字やアラビア数字,さらに句読
点や括弧類などの記述記号を用いる。これら
を組み合わせて表す日本語の文章では,表記
上における種々の問題がある。
日本語の表記においては、漢字や仮名だけで
なく、ローマ字やアラビア数字、さらに句読
点や括弧類などの記述記号を用いる。これら
を組み合わせて表す日本語の文章では、表記
上における種々の問題がある。
日本語の表記では“漢字”や”仮名”だけで
なく,“ローマ字”や“アラビア数字”,さら
に“句読点”や“括弧類”などの記述記号を
用いる.
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___

Re: [NTG-context] Asian Language Support

2012-05-08 Thread KUROKI Yusuke

Hi, Hans,

 A question for Yusuke: what script name should we use?

It is a difficult question.  In Chinese or Korean case,
what they have chosen?  In Japanese, we need to prepare a
lot of characters for font set if they complete Adobe-Japan-1.5
or something. So, some font vendors publish the font sets
including only kana-region and latin/number-region (and
elementary school level kanjis).  In this case, script=kana
might be ok, but if the font set has all the characters
of Adobe-Japan-1.5 region, then script=kana is too impolite.

Moreover, in pTeX world, we use 'kanji' for this kind, but
we need to rethink 'kanji' is most appreciate or not.

Thanks,
-- Yusuke.


(2012/05/08 7:07), Hans Hagen wrote:

On 7-5-2012 15:12, S Barmeier wrote:

I am writing documents in English/Japanese.

If you want to include English text, you probably need to define your
own typescript (or use simplefonts), because most Japanese fonts have
terrible Latin fonts...

I can probably help you, if you tell me what exactly you need.

If you're just typesetting Japanese text, you will need
\setscript[hanzi] to enable linebreaks...

And the rest is done by Unicode magic: just type away between \starttext
and \stoptext


I uploaded a beta with preliminary Japanese script support.

\enabletrackers[scripts.analyzing]
% \enabletrackers[scripts.injections]
\enabletrackers[scripts.details]

% \definefont[testfont][heiseikakugostd-w5][script=kana,language=jan]
\definefont[testfont][heiseiminstd-w3] [script=kana,language=jan]

\testfont

\starttext

\startscript[nihongo]

\startlines
国、『国』、『国』、『国』、『国』、『国』、
\hbox to 3em{国、『国』、『国』、『国』、『国』、『国』、}
国:国:国:国:国:国:国:国:国:国
\hbox to 3em{国:国:国:国:国:国:国:国:国:国}
\stoplines

\stopscript

\stoptext

A question for Yusuke: what script name should we use?

More (simple) examples are needed in order to get all relations between 
categories done (so, currently we still use a copy of chinese but with already 
a few japanese specific inter-character issues done).

Hans


-
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
| www.pragma-pod.nl
-
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___



--
黒木 裕介 (KUROKI Yusuke)
kuroky(at)users.sourceforge.jp
http://ptetexwin.sourceforge.jp/
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___

Re: [NTG-context] Asian Language Support

2012-05-07 Thread KUROKI Yusuke

Hello, Henman,

What the timing you choose to post this message!
Several days ago, I, Japanese, firstly met Hans and had
a lecture about Japanese typography and typesetting.
Now it is the duration to prepare to think about Japanese
typesetting in ConTeXt.  It is note that hanzi option of
ConTeXt is ugly for Japanese typesetting, it must come from
some Chinese typesetting custom.

In TeX world, for well-customized Japanese typesetting,
we usually use p(La)TeX developed by ASCII MEDIA WORKS Inc.
Since it has been already included TeX Live 2011 and now
Cygwin distribute texlive-collection packages officially,
you can use pTeX in Cygwin.

Another alternative is to use LuaTeX-ja package through LuaTeX.
The package is now distributed through CTAN and also upcoming
TeX Live.

Best,
-- Yusuke.


(2012/05/07 19:43), hwit...@gmail.com wrote:


I live in Japan and fequently have the need to create documents in Japanese.
I would like to stop using WYSIWYG type word processing and switch over to TeX 
based systems.  I've been starting and am learning to use ConTeXt but I've 
still a long way to go.

I want to ask if anyone has already gone through this and has a How to publish a 
Japanese language document using  ConTeXt  or something like that, unless it is 
incredibly easy to do.  I've not tried it yet, but will tomorrow.  I wanted to write to 
the
  group first to see if this issue has already be solved or any other input.

My current platform environment is not ideal, but using Cygwin on a Japanese XP 
Windows box.  I've not had any problems with English documents.

Regards,
Henman  (hwitloc)
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___



--
黒木 裕介 (KUROKI Yusuke)
kuroky(at)users.sourceforge.jp
http://ptetexwin.sourceforge.jp/
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___

Re: [NTG-context] Asian Language Support

2012-05-07 Thread KUROKI Yusuke
Hello, Henman-san,

 Is it the font or the spacing that is bad in simplefont?

It is not the problem of simplefont itself, I think.
The problem is the rules of hanzi option does not have such
a good quality in spacing and line-breaking for Japanese typesetting.

 can ptex be used with ConTeXt? as the the engine?  Would this wowrk?

Unfortunately no.  I could not describe the reason, but everyone
gives up before trying.

Cheers,
-- Yusuke.


(2012/05/07 21:54), d.henman wrote:
 Yusuke-san,
 Thank you too for writing.  It seems like one or the other so far, platex 
 does not give good western style characters but is great for Japanese, which 
 the other option, simplefonts gives good western characters and according to 
 you bad Japanese charac
 ters.  Is it the font or the spacing that is bad in simplefont?
 
So a question might be can ptex be used with ConTeXt? as the the engine?  
 Would this wowrk?


-- 
黒木 裕介 (KUROKI Yusuke)
kuroky(at)users.sourceforge.jp
http://ptetexwin.sourceforge.jp/
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Asian Language Support

2012-05-07 Thread KUROKI Yusuke
Hi, Hans,

Tnank you for your quick try.
I will respond to you this evening (in your timezone, this afternoon),
because I don't have so much time to write sth in this morning.

2012/5/8 Hans Hagen pra...@wxs.nl:
 On 7-5-2012 15:12, S Barmeier wrote:

 I am writing documents in English/Japanese.

 If you want to include English text, you probably need to define your
 own typescript (or use simplefonts), because most Japanese fonts have
 terrible Latin fonts...

 I can probably help you, if you tell me what exactly you need.

 If you're just typesetting Japanese text, you will need
 \setscript[hanzi] to enable linebreaks...

 And the rest is done by Unicode magic: just type away between \starttext
 and \stoptext


 I uploaded a beta with preliminary Japanese script support.

 \enabletrackers[scripts.analyzing]
 % \enabletrackers[scripts.injections]
 \enabletrackers[scripts.details]

 % \definefont[testfont][heiseikakugostd-w5][script=kana,language=jan]
 \definefont[testfont][heiseiminstd-w3]   [script=kana,language=jan]

 \testfont

 \starttext

 \startscript[nihongo]

 \startlines
 国、『国』、『国』、『国』、『国』、『国』、
 \hbox to 3em{国、『国』、『国』、『国』、『国』、『国』、}
 国:国:国:国:国:国:国:国:国:国
 \hbox to 3em{国:国:国:国:国:国:国:国:国:国}
 \stoplines

 \stopscript

 \stoptext

 A question for Yusuke: what script name should we use?

 More (simple) examples are needed in order to get all relations between
 categories done (so, currently we still use a copy of chinese but with
 already a few japanese specific inter-character issues done).


 Hans


 -
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
 | www.pragma-pod.nl
 -
 ___
 If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
 the Wiki!

 maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
 http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
 webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
 archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
 wiki : http://contextgarden.net
 ___



-- 
黒木 裕介 (KUROKI Yusuke)
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___