Re: [NTG-context] Context modules not on CATN and not in TeX Live (slightly OT)

[Axel Kielhorn]

Am 26.01.2015 um 14:03 schrieb Mojca Miklavec :

> On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 1:40 PM, Keith Schultz wrote:
>> Hi Alex,
>> 
>> The simple answer to your question would be to use this page:
>> 
>> http://www.ctan.org/upload/
> 
> No, in case of ConTeXt that's not correct. The idea would be to handle
> everything automatically once the modules are uploaded to
> modules.contextgarden.net. Some discrepancies are intentional, some
> are "bugs" (read as: nobody noticed that a module was missing and/or
> bothered requesting it).

That's what I was hoping.

>> I would suggest that you point them to the Standalone stable release,
>> if you actually need the missing third party modules.
> 
> No, wait, let's try to clear things up first.
> 
> If modules should be on CTAN and aren't, I'll add them to CTAN. If
> modules are on CTAN, but not in TeX Live, we should figure out why
> they are excluded from TeX Live and either make sure that they are
> either added to TeX Live (if there are no problems with licencing,
> packaging etc.) or removed from CTAN (in case they are not really
> useful). We could keep some modules on CTAN if they are useful, but
> don't qualify for TL inclusion for some obscure reason.

Two modules that are on CTAN but not on TeX Live are the URW font support files.
The fonts are non-commercial thus the support files are not included.
The fonts are on CTAN and there is a utility to install them to texmf-local.

(Probably not needed for MkIV.)

> "Don't use TeX Live" could be the proper advice for someone who wants
> to use the latest version of ConTeXt, but one shouldn't confuse the
> user just because a module is missing in TL by accident.

I prefer the "Everything is already on your computer, let's try it!"
approach. Having to install (and maintain) a second system makes it difficult 
to convince someone to try ConTeXt.

Maybe the install instructions on the wiki should be amended for TL 2014.
I look into that once the visualcounter is in TeX Live:-)

Axel
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___

Re: [NTG-context] Context modules not on CATN and not in TeX Live (slightly OT)

[Keith Schultz]

Hi Hans,

You misunderstood me.

I am aware how CTAN and TeXLive works.

Mocja, said HE would do the upload to CTAN.
Also, he mentioned that WE could keep some modules 
kept on CTAN if deemed useful!

My question is more about how ConTeXt controls these things
or is responsible?

regards
Keith.


> Am 26.01.2015 um 16:15 schrieb Hans Hagen :
> 
> On 1/26/2015 2:57 PM, Keith J. Schultz wrote:
>> Hi Mojca,
>> 
>> Thank you for clarifying a few things.
>> 
>> I have not seen any information how to contribute modules to ConTeXt or
>> how they
>> are passed  up the stream!
>> 
>> A few caveats though!
>> 1) Who „authorizes“ ConTeXt modules for CTAN ?
>> 2) Do not CTAN and TeXLive have pretty much the same guidelines?
>> 3) Who gets to decide what is really „Useful“ ?
> 
> 1 : the ctan maintainers, but in general they accept everything that suits 
> tex and friends (of course it will only accept legally correct items)
> 
> 2 : i think that texlive has more strict rules with respect to licenses
> 
> 3 : quality control is not part of the picture nor is maintainance or 
> useability ... i suppose something can end up on ctan that is unuseable, 
> broken and unmaintained ... it's user driven
> 
> - : for texlive it can make sense to also provide the right information for 
> inclusion and installation and that is what the garden packager does (you 
> cannot expect texlive maintainers to keep track of all that)
> 
>> I did not mean to say do not use TDS!  Besides, one can always install the
>> „missing“ modules in the TeXLive tree, if they really want them!
>> 
>> regards
>> Keith.
>> 
>>> Am 26.01.2015 um 14:03 schrieb Mojca Miklavec
>>> mailto:mojca.miklavec.li...@gmail.com>>:
>>> 
>>> 
[snip, snip]

>>> No, wait, let's try to clear things up first.
>>> 
>>> If modules should be on CTAN and aren't, I'll add them to CTAN. If
>>> modules are on CTAN, but not in TeX Live, we should figure out why
>>> they are excluded from TeX Live and either make sure that they are
>>> either added to TeX Live (if there are no problems with licencing,
>>> packaging etc.) or removed from CTAN (in case they are not really
>>> useful). We could keep some modules on CTAN if they are useful, but
>>> don't qualify for TL inclusion for some obscure reason.
[snip, snip]
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___

Re: [NTG-context] Context modules not on CATN and not in TeX Live (slightly OT)

[Hans Hagen]

On 1/26/2015 2:57 PM, Keith J. Schultz wrote:

Hi Mojca,

Thank you for clarifying a few things.

I have not seen any information how to contribute modules to ConTeXt or
how they
are passed  up the stream!

A few caveats though!
1) Who „authorizes“ ConTeXt modules for CTAN ?
 2) Do not CTAN and TeXLive have pretty much the same guidelines?
 3) Who gets to decide what is really „Useful“ ?


1 : the ctan maintainers, but in general they accept everything that 
suits tex and friends (of course it will only accept legally correct items)


2 : i think that texlive has more strict rules with respect to licenses

3 : quality control is not part of the picture nor is maintainance or 
useability ... i suppose something can end up on ctan that is unuseable, 
broken and unmaintained ... it's user driven


- : for texlive it can make sense to also provide the right information 
for inclusion and installation and that is what the garden packager does 
(you cannot expect texlive maintainers to keep track of all that)



I did not mean to say do not use TDS!  Besides, one can always install the
„missing“ modules in the TeXLive tree, if they really want them!

regards
Keith.


Am 26.01.2015 um 14:03 schrieb Mojca Miklavec
mailto:mojca.miklavec.li...@gmail.com>>:

On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 1:40 PM, Keith Schultz wrote:

Hi Alex,

The simple answer to your question would be to use this page:

http://www.ctan.org/upload/


No, in case of ConTeXt that's not correct. The idea would be to handle
everything automatically once the modules are uploaded to
modules.contextgarden.net . Some
discrepancies are intentional, some
are "bugs" (read as: nobody noticed that a module was missing and/or
bothered requesting it).

I was offline for a while and will explain this later in detail. I
just wanted to make sure that nobody starts uploading cmscbf and alike
to CTAN.


BUT, the MISSING modules or packages are so-called third party!
It should be the responsibility of the AUTHORS, to upload the to CTAN!


No, that's not the case with ConTeXt modules. They are synced
automatically.


Also, e.g cmscbf and cmttbf are no longer needed in mkiv! They are
for use
with
mkii!

Furthermore, you should concertrate on using ONLY MKIV! Especially,
since your audience seem to be introductory.  MKII is frozen and IMHO
outdated!


It's not so much outdated, but it's certainly frozen and certainly not
worth spending too much effort in it. (With an exception of occasional
support for XeTeX which is still an up-to-date engine.)


I would suggest that you point them to the Standalone stable release,
if you actually need the missing third party modules.


No, wait, let's try to clear things up first.

If modules should be on CTAN and aren't, I'll add them to CTAN. If
modules are on CTAN, but not in TeX Live, we should figure out why
they are excluded from TeX Live and either make sure that they are
either added to TeX Live (if there are no problems with licencing,
packaging etc.) or removed from CTAN (in case they are not really
useful). We could keep some modules on CTAN if they are useful, but
don't qualify for TL inclusion for some obscure reason.

"Don't use TeX Live" could be the proper advice for someone who wants
to use the latest version of ConTeXt, but one shouldn't confuse the
user just because a module is missing in TL by accident.

Mojca


[snip, snip]


___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___




--

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
 | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___

Re: [NTG-context] Context modules not on CATN and not in TeX Live (slightly OT)

[Keith J. Schultz]

Hi Mojca,

Thank you for clarifying a few things. 

I have not seen any information how to contribute modules to ConTeXt or how they
are passed  up the stream!

A few caveats though!
1) Who „authorizes“ ConTeXt modules for CTAN ?
2) Do not CTAN and TeXLive have pretty much the same guidelines?
3) Who gets to decide what is really „Useful“ ?

I did not mean to say do not use TDS!  Besides, one can always install the
„missing“ modules in the TeXLive tree, if they really want them!

regards
Keith.

> Am 26.01.2015 um 14:03 schrieb Mojca Miklavec 
> :
> 
> On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 1:40 PM, Keith Schultz wrote:
>> Hi Alex,
>> 
>> The simple answer to your question would be to use this page:
>> 
>> http://www.ctan.org/upload/ 
> 
> No, in case of ConTeXt that's not correct. The idea would be to handle
> everything automatically once the modules are uploaded to
> modules.contextgarden.net . Some 
> discrepancies are intentional, some
> are "bugs" (read as: nobody noticed that a module was missing and/or
> bothered requesting it).
> 
> I was offline for a while and will explain this later in detail. I
> just wanted to make sure that nobody starts uploading cmscbf and alike
> to CTAN.
> 
>> BUT, the MISSING modules or packages are so-called third party!
>> It should be the responsibility of the AUTHORS, to upload the to CTAN!
> 
> No, that's not the case with ConTeXt modules. They are synced automatically.
> 
>> Also, e.g cmscbf and cmttbf are no longer needed in mkiv! They are for use
>> with
>> mkii!
>> 
>> Furthermore, you should concertrate on using ONLY MKIV! Especially,
>> since your audience seem to be introductory.  MKII is frozen and IMHO
>> outdated!
> 
> It's not so much outdated, but it's certainly frozen and certainly not
> worth spending too much effort in it. (With an exception of occasional
> support for XeTeX which is still an up-to-date engine.)
> 
>> I would suggest that you point them to the Standalone stable release,
>> if you actually need the missing third party modules.
> 
> No, wait, let's try to clear things up first.
> 
> If modules should be on CTAN and aren't, I'll add them to CTAN. If
> modules are on CTAN, but not in TeX Live, we should figure out why
> they are excluded from TeX Live and either make sure that they are
> either added to TeX Live (if there are no problems with licencing,
> packaging etc.) or removed from CTAN (in case they are not really
> useful). We could keep some modules on CTAN if they are useful, but
> don't qualify for TL inclusion for some obscure reason.
> 
> "Don't use TeX Live" could be the proper advice for someone who wants
> to use the latest version of ConTeXt, but one shouldn't confuse the
> user just because a module is missing in TL by accident.
> 
> Mojca
> 
[snip, snip]___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___

Re: [NTG-context] Context modules not on CATN and not in TeX Live (slightly OT)

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 1:40 PM, Keith Schultz wrote:
> Hi Alex,
>
> The simple answer to your question would be to use this page:
>
> http://www.ctan.org/upload/

No, in case of ConTeXt that's not correct. The idea would be to handle
everything automatically once the modules are uploaded to
modules.contextgarden.net. Some discrepancies are intentional, some
are "bugs" (read as: nobody noticed that a module was missing and/or
bothered requesting it).

I was offline for a while and will explain this later in detail. I
just wanted to make sure that nobody starts uploading cmscbf and alike
to CTAN.

> BUT, the MISSING modules or packages are so-called third party!
> It should be the responsibility of the AUTHORS, to upload the to CTAN!

No, that's not the case with ConTeXt modules. They are synced automatically.

> Also, e.g cmscbf and cmttbf are no longer needed in mkiv! They are for use
> with
> mkii!
>
> Furthermore, you should concertrate on using ONLY MKIV! Especially,
> since your audience seem to be introductory.  MKII is frozen and IMHO
> outdated!

It's not so much outdated, but it's certainly frozen and certainly not
worth spending too much effort in it. (With an exception of occasional
support for XeTeX which is still an up-to-date engine.)

> I would suggest that you point them to the Standalone stable release,
> if you actually need the missing third party modules.

No, wait, let's try to clear things up first.

If modules should be on CTAN and aren't, I'll add them to CTAN. If
modules are on CTAN, but not in TeX Live, we should figure out why
they are excluded from TeX Live and either make sure that they are
either added to TeX Live (if there are no problems with licencing,
packaging etc.) or removed from CTAN (in case they are not really
useful). We could keep some modules on CTAN if they are useful, but
don't qualify for TL inclusion for some obscure reason.

"Don't use TeX Live" could be the proper advice for someone who wants
to use the latest version of ConTeXt, but one shouldn't confuse the
user just because a module is missing in TL by accident.

Mojca


> Am 25.01.2015 um 13:21 schrieb Axel Kielhorn :
>
> Hi!
>
> I'm trying to learn ConTeXt working through some examples I found on Context
> Garden and the internet.
>
> Since I already have TeX Live 2014 installed I could run most of the
> examples.
> When I ran into a problem, I installed the standalone version and compared
> the supplied modules.
>
> The following modules are not part of Context in TeX Live 2014.
>
> animation/ GPL 3
> annotation/GPL 3
> cmscbf/GPL 2  on CTAN
> cmttbf/GPL 2  on CTAN
> fancybreak/GPL 3
> layout/GPL
> title/ GPL 3
> urwgaramond/   GPL 2  on CTAN
> urwgothic/ Public Domain  on CTAN
> visualcounter/ Simplified BSD License
>
>
> Some are on CTAN, some are missing there.
> Since TeX Live takes the files from CTAN, it would be nice to put the
> missing modules there.
> What is the correct way to do that?
>
> I ask because I want to give a tutorial about ConTeXt at the Dante meeting
> in april and it would be nice to tell the audience that everything they need
> is already part of TeX Live and no extra installation is required.
>
> Axel
> --
> Man sollte das mal mit ConTeXt betrachten.
> ___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
> ___
>
>
>
> ___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
> ___
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___

Re: [NTG-context] Context modules not on CATN and not in TeX Live (slightly OT)

[Keith Schultz]

Hi Alex,

The simple answer to your question would be to use this page:

http://www.ctan.org/upload/ 

BUT, the MISSING modules or packages are so-called third party!
It should be the responsibility of the AUTHORS, to upload the to CTAN!

Also, e.g cmscbf and cmttbf are no longer needed in mkiv! They are for use with
mkii!

Furthermore, you should concertrate on using ONLY MKIV! Especially,
since your audience seem to be introductory.  MKII is frozen and IMHO
outdated! 

I would suggest that you point them to the Standalone stable release,
if you actually need the missing third party modules.

Hope this helps.
regards
Keith.


> Am 25.01.2015 um 13:21 schrieb Axel Kielhorn :
> 
> Hi!
> 
> I'm trying to learn ConTeXt working through some examples I found on Context 
> Garden and the internet.
> 
> Since I already have TeX Live 2014 installed I could run most of the examples.
> When I ran into a problem, I installed the standalone version and compared 
> the supplied modules.
> 
> The following modules are not part of Context in TeX Live 2014.
> 
>> animation/ GPL 3
>> annotation/GPL 3
>> cmscbf/GPL 2  on CTAN
>> cmttbf/GPL 2  on CTAN
>> fancybreak/GPL 3
>> layout/GPL
>> title/ GPL 3
>> urwgaramond/   GPL 2  on CTAN
>> urwgothic/ Public Domain  on CTAN
>> visualcounter/ Simplified BSD License
> 
> Some are on CTAN, some are missing there.
> Since TeX Live takes the files from CTAN, it would be nice to put the missing 
> modules there. 
> What is the correct way to do that?
> 
> I ask because I want to give a tutorial about ConTeXt at the Dante meeting in 
> april and it would be nice to tell the audience that everything they need is 
> already part of TeX Live and no extra installation is required.
> 
> Axel
> -- 
> Man sollte das mal mit ConTeXt betrachten.
> ___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
> Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
> ___

___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___