Re: [NTG-context] Example ConTeXt document: PS output

2010-07-12 Thread Hans Hagen

On 11-7-2010 7:39, luigi scarso wrote:

2010/7/11 Ivo Solnickýivo.solni...@gmail.com:


Now (not addressed to Mojca), please don't be a smartarse and tell me
(again) that this is all volunteer work and to send in patches, a new
Device Independent file definition and implementation for Unicode.
I'm full of admiration for you guys with the giant IQs who have
created ConTeXt in tea breaks and at night, never taken a second of
time from the employer, publishing house or university or hairdressing
salon proprietor that pays you.  But I don't pretend to be in that
class.  I'm just a mental midget.  And I have other things to do.  It
ain't my project.  Something else is.



Maybe LuaLaTeX should work for you.

But even so there is a dvi-to-ps step to do,
which is pratically the same of pdf-to-ps
in context mkiv.


one of the reasons behind pdf is that it takes the programming language 
out of ps which means (1) better portability, (2) faster rendering


in addition to that pdf provides a couple of goodies irrelevant to 
printers (annotations and such)


dvi as outputformat is fine, but you then need to inject extra code for 
each (fundamentally) different backend


tex + specials - dvi - ps - pdf
tex + specials - dvi - pdf
tex + literals - pdf (pdftex)

now, as ps is seldom needed as final format it makes no sense generate 
it (and going from pdf - ps is easy)


using specials (inlined code) is no fun but has alway sbeen supported in 
mkii (spec-* files) using an intermediate layer


in mkiv we have

tex - pdf

so no specials and hardly any literals at the tex which is much cleaner; 
of course there can be more backends but a ps one is unlikely


although in principle mkiv could be made to provide dvi to be fed in 
some backend driver i see no advantage in that


Hans

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
 | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Example ConTeXt document: PS output

2010-07-11 Thread Vnpenguin
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 00:21, Martin Schröder mar...@oneiros.de wrote:
 2010/7/10 Mojca Miklavec mojca.miklavec.li...@gmail.com:
 avoiding PDF for all costs makes sense or not. Expressed in other
 words: what usually happens when one sends PDF to PostScript printer?
 Does it print the document almost-natively or not?

 Typically your viewer (e.g. Adobe Reader) or your printing system
 (e.g. CUPS) converts it to PostScript.


http://www.csb.yale.edu/userguides/image/adobe.html
Acrobat reader can be used as PDF-to-PS converter.
With HP Postscript printer with Jetdirect interface I can send
directly PS file to printer, via FTP protocol IIRC.
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Example ConTeXt document: PS output

2010-07-11 Thread Michael Talbot-Wilson

On Sun, 11 Jul 2010, Martin Schr?der wrote:


2010/7/10 Mojca Miklavec mojca.miklavec.li...@gmail.com:

avoiding PDF for all costs makes sense or not. Expressed in other
words: what usually happens when one sends PDF to PostScript printer?
Does it print the document almost-natively or not?


Typically your viewer (e.g. Adobe Reader) or your printing system
(e.g. CUPS) converts it to PostScript.

Or your printer has a PDF RIP (rare). Then there are two
possibilities:
- the PDF RIP converts the PDF to PostScript and feeds it to it's
 PostScript RIP (this is the norm with most Adobe PDF RIPs). This is
 the reason that printers with PDF RIPs often also have a harddisc.
- the PDF gets directly interpreted by a PDF RIP (JAWS, Harlequin and
 newer Adobe PDF RIPs do this).


Thanks for this info.  As I said, I can use pdf2ps, or CUPS will.
(OT, but for me CUPS is presently out of action and I'm copying PS
files directly to /dev/usb/lp0.  A handshake/signalling problem on
the side of the LaserJet 4050, I suspect.)

Yes, one can create PDF output, and convert it to PS to print it, but
I don't feel good about that when the doc contains images.  There is
an unnecessary conversion.  And the reverse, ps2pdf, is possible and
probably better.  The idea of PDF as more device-independent than
PS...?

If I convert from .RAF to .PSD to .PDF to .PS the last step, to .PS,
is fundamental, that's what the printer has to have, but the .PDF step
is, to repeat, redundant.  If the text processor generates PS I don't
have to convert images to PDF.

What can perhaps be said is that PDF is a more tightly controlled
format and that the incompatibilities that can arise between prepress
and press don't, there's no need to overlay DSC conventions because
there is intrinsically less flexibility and less programmability.

That fact, that there is greater restriction and control over the
workflow, is perhaps of advantage to the more monetized side of all
this.  In that sense, and perhaps in that sense alone, PDF is not
redundant, has a role.

If Han The Thanh wants to generate PDF and calls a program pdftex I'm
not going to complain.  It is wholly admirable, absolutely brilliant.
It is just that what he wants to do doesn't fit in with what I want to
do.  That's fine, there's a warning up front, I decide.

But I was considering something else, which for some reason is not
called pdfConTeXt, has another name.  It treats PDF as fundamental when
it's not, it's remedial.  For some.

I just hope this hasn't happened because luatex started as pdftex and
for no better reason.

Now (not addressed to Mojca), please don't be a smartarse and tell me
(again) that this is all volunteer work and to send in patches, a new
Device Independent file definition and implementation for Unicode.
I'm full of admiration for you guys with the giant IQs who have
created ConTeXt in tea breaks and at night, never taken a second of
time from the employer, publishing house or university or hairdressing
salon proprietor that pays you.  But I don't pretend to be in that
class.  I'm just a mental midget.  And I have other things to do.  It
ain't my project.  Something else is.


Or your printer has a PDF RIP (rare).


Rare.___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Example ConTeXt document: PS output

2010-07-11 Thread Ivo Solnický

 Now (not addressed to Mojca), please don't be a smartarse and tell me
 (again) that this is all volunteer work and to send in patches, a new
 Device Independent file definition and implementation for Unicode.
 I'm full of admiration for you guys with the giant IQs who have
 created ConTeXt in tea breaks and at night, never taken a second of
 time from the employer, publishing house or university or hairdressing
 salon proprietor that pays you.  But I don't pretend to be in that
 class.  I'm just a mental midget.  And I have other things to do.  It
 ain't my project.  Something else is.


Maybe LuaLaTeX should work for you.

Ivo Solnicky
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Example ConTeXt document: PS output

2010-07-11 Thread luigi scarso
2010/7/11 Ivo Solnický ivo.solni...@gmail.com:

 Now (not addressed to Mojca), please don't be a smartarse and tell me
 (again) that this is all volunteer work and to send in patches, a new
 Device Independent file definition and implementation for Unicode.
 I'm full of admiration for you guys with the giant IQs who have
 created ConTeXt in tea breaks and at night, never taken a second of
 time from the employer, publishing house or university or hairdressing
 salon proprietor that pays you.  But I don't pretend to be in that
 class.  I'm just a mental midget.  And I have other things to do.  It
 ain't my project.  Something else is.


 Maybe LuaLaTeX should work for you.
But even so there is a dvi-to-ps step to do,
which is pratically the same of pdf-to-ps
in context mkiv.


-- 
luigi
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Example ConTeXt document: PS output

2010-07-11 Thread Henning Hraban Ramm

Am 2010-07-11 um 19:39 schrieb luigi scarso:

Maybe LuaLaTeX should work for you.

But even so there is a dvi-to-ps step to do,
which is pratically the same of pdf-to-ps
in context mkiv.


I suggest to use plain PostScript; there are even layout frameworks*  
for that. You need just some PS files, no installation, no  
intermediate format: Write PS code and copy it to your printer.
Hm, but the printer must convert PS to its internal pixel format, that  
means a lossy conversion...


*) http://www.tinaja.com/post01.asp#gonzo
(I used that once for auto-generating simple newspaper ads.)

One of the major advantages of plain PostScript over PDF is, that PS  
is a complete programming language and you can even write your own  
printer-destroying virus. Nice!



Greetlings from Lake Constance!
Hraban
---
http://www.fiee.net/texnique/
http://wiki.contextgarden.net
https://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)

___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Example ConTeXt document: PS output

2010-07-11 Thread Khaled Hosny
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 10:37:01PM +0200, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
 Am 2010-07-11 um 19:39 schrieb luigi scarso:
 Maybe LuaLaTeX should work for you.
 But even so there is a dvi-to-ps step to do,
 which is pratically the same of pdf-to-ps
 in context mkiv.
 
 I suggest to use plain PostScript; there are even layout frameworks*
 for that. You need just some PS files, no installation, no
 intermediate format: Write PS code and copy it to your printer.
 Hm, but the printer must convert PS to its internal pixel format,
 that means a lossy conversion...
 
 *) http://www.tinaja.com/post01.asp#gonzo
 (I used that once for auto-generating simple newspaper ads.)
 
 One of the major advantages of plain PostScript over PDF is, that PS
 is a complete programming language and you can even write your own
 printer-destroying virus. Nice!

SUSE had (have?) a graphical menu extension to GRUB boot loader written
in PostScript. Don't ask me why I remembered this now, but I always
found it one of most weird uses of PostSscript I've ever seen.

Regards,
 Khaled

-- 
 Khaled Hosny
 Arabic localiser and member of Arabeyes.org team
 Free font developer
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Example ConTeXt document: PS output

2010-07-11 Thread Henning Hraban Ramm

Am 2010-07-11 um 22:53 schrieb Khaled Hosny:
SUSE had (have?) a graphical menu extension to GRUB boot loader  
written

in PostScript. Don't ask me why I remembered this now, but I always
found it one of most weird uses of PostSscript I've ever seen.


NextStep's whole screen graphics was DisplayPostScript - in NS's  
successor OSX it became PDF (Aqua is based on a PDF graphics model;  
didn't research what's left of it today).


I read, PostScript was also used for industrial robotics, because it's  
geometrical calculations were unique.



Greetlings from Lake Constance!
Hraban
---
http://www.fiee.net/texnique/
http://wiki.contextgarden.net
https://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)

___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Example ConTeXt document: PS output

2010-07-10 Thread Taco Hoekwater


Hi,

On 07/10/2010 07:46 AM, Michael Talbot-Wilson wrote:


Running I think any browser on any Linux system, if I see a PDF file
on the Web and click on print, and then print to a file, I
automatically finish up with a .ps file. Which I can display with gv.
The PDF format was all the time redundant.


I can print that file directly from the pdf reader in that case
(and I have a fairly standard PostScript printer), so from my
point of view it is .ps that is the redundant format.


And even I prefer to avoid unnecessary conversions of image formats
when I only want to print images. Using Photoshop I save as EPS,
switch to Linux, run eplain, print a PostScript image (and text) on a
PostScript printer, and that's the end of it.


Not that I want to criticize you workflow, if it works for you, that it
is fine and there is no need to change it. But you could have saved as
PNG, JPG, or PDF instead, and there would not be a need for conversion.


I would like the high-level conveniences of ConTeXt, the ones I
mentioned, but they don't supersede the rest.

The luatex manpage in luatex-beta-0.60.2.tar.bz2 says:

In DVI mode, luaTeX can be used as a complete replacement for the
TeX engine.


In DVI mode, luatex can be used to replace TeX, yes. But in that
case, you loose some important new features, because they are not
supported by DVI format (opentype fonts, unicode support). For
that reason, Hans decided not to support DVI mode for luatex
in context MkIV.

side note
Talking as a luatex developer: If you want something better than what
you have, you will have to be prepared to make some changes yourself as
well. Life is too short for us freeware developers to keep supporting
all existing setups on top of trying to improve things. Writing
extensions to the DVI format (and all its processing tools) seemed
like a waste of my time to me especially since everything we wanted
to do in luatex is supported by PDF.
/side note

You can, however, use context MkII ('texexec') which uses pdftex,
and still have some of your wishes by making it output DVI files:

  texexec --backend=dvi ...

I don't recall whether texexec calls dvips automatically, you
probably have to do that manually.

You won't be able to use OpenType fonts in that case and Unicode
support will be somewhat dodgy, but you will still get the tight
document-level integration with metapost that is always provided
in context.

Best wishes,
Taco
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Example ConTeXt document: PS output

2010-07-10 Thread Peter Münster
On Sat, Jul 10 2010, Michael Talbot-Wilson wrote:

 I have a PostScript printer.  I'd prefer not to have to run pdf2ps.

Hello,

Normally, the printing system (cups for example) will run pdf2ps for you,
and you should be able to do something like lpr file.pdf without any
problems.


 How can ps output be produced directly?

You can make a script context-ps, for example like this:

#!/bin/bash
context $1
pdf2ps ${1/.tex/}.pdf

Cheers, Peter

-- 
Contact information: http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/


___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Example ConTeXt document: PS output

2010-07-10 Thread Martin Schröder
2010/7/10 Michael Talbot-Wilson m...@view.net.au:
 Running I think any browser on any Linux system, if I see a PDF file
 on the Web and click on print, and then print to a file, I
 automatically finish up with a .ps file.  Which I can display with gv.
 The PDF format was all the time redundant.

No. Only nobody puts a PDF RIP into consumer printers. The situation
is completely reversed with printing houses: There you will have
problems getting PostScript printed.

 I'm not competent to debate the merits of PDF versus PS but I know
 what I want.

:-)

 I would like the high-level conveniences of ConTeXt, the ones I
 mentioned, but they don't supersede the rest.

The ConTeXt team will not spend much effort (if any) to make MkIV run
with dvi(ps). So stop whining and show us your patches. :-)

 In  DVI  mode, luaTeX can be used as a complete replacement for the
 TeX engine.

Yes. But MkIV needs much more then DVI and currently aims at PDF.

Best
   Martin
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Example ConTeXt document: PS output

2010-07-10 Thread Mojca Miklavec
On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 17:46, Michael Talbot-Wilson wrote:

 I have a PostScript printer.  I'd prefer not to have to run pdf2ps.

Unrelated to the question of PS output of ConTeXt:

I have a PostScript printer (at home and in the office) as well, but
my general impression has always been as if PDFs were printed
natively. That is: printer sometimes has problem and doesn't know
how to print some complex vector graphics properly; it prints very
fast; if I use a different driver (a normal instead of PostScript
one) then some PDF files that would come out corrupted are printed
properly etc.

I may be biased since I'm using Mac that comes with a relatively good
(native?) support for PDFs, but I remember the problems with
corrupted PDFs on PS printer from Windows.

It is true that I always print from GUI as opposed to simply copying
the file to printer from command line ... but I'm still not sure if
avoiding PDF for all costs makes sense or not. Expressed in other
words: what usually happens when one sends PDF to PostScript printer?
Does it print the document almost-natively or not?

This page says:
   http://www.adobe.com/print/features/psvspdf/

In order for a PDF file to be printed, however, the printer still
needs to render the PDF objects to the page, and a PostScript printer
is still the most reliable way to do this. Some PostScript printers
understand not only the PostScript language, but also PDF files
natively. And some printers, using a technology we call Extreme,
actually convert all jobs into a PDF file prior to printing. (Agfa,
Creo, Heidelberg, and Scitex have all announced print workflows based
on Extreme.)

Mojca
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Example ConTeXt document: PS output

2010-07-10 Thread Aditya Mahajan

On Sat, 10 Jul 2010, Michael Talbot-Wilson wrote:


On Sat, 10 Jul 2010, Michael Talbot-Wilson wrote:


Oh, yes.  May have a look at MkII.  But does it use LuaTeX?  The
possibility of easy macros in Lua rather than difficult macros in TeX
would be one attraction of ConTeXt.  Maybe Eplain LuaTeX is what I
need.


Let me correct that.  Confused ravings.  I was really looking for (1)
font management making it easier to install new and unusual fonts
without delving up to my armpits in tfm, pk, whatever, (2) something
with Metapost more integrated, allowing easy placement of vector
graphics in the document and allowing them to be defined within the
document text file.

It seemed momentarily that ConTeXt might be one way, and since there
was an old version called MkII and a new version called MkIV, that
MkIV was a sane place to start.


You can try ConTeXt with XeTeX engine.

Aditya
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Example ConTeXt document: PS output

2010-07-10 Thread Martin Schröder
2010/7/10 Mojca Miklavec mojca.miklavec.li...@gmail.com:
 avoiding PDF for all costs makes sense or not. Expressed in other
 words: what usually happens when one sends PDF to PostScript printer?
 Does it print the document almost-natively or not?

Typically your viewer (e.g. Adobe Reader) or your printing system
(e.g. CUPS) converts it to PostScript.

Or your printer has a PDF RIP (rare). Then there are two
possibilities:
- the PDF RIP converts the PDF to PostScript and feeds it to it's
  PostScript RIP (this is the norm with most Adobe PDF RIPs). This is
  the reason that printers with PDF RIPs often also have a harddisc.
- the PDF gets directly interpreted by a PDF RIP (JAWS, Harlequin and
  newer Adobe PDF RIPs do this).

Best
   Martin
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


[NTG-context] Example ConTeXt document: PS output

2010-07-09 Thread Michael Talbot-Wilson

I've just installed ConTeXt minimal and had a look at ConTeXt, The
Manual.  I typed in the example document that starts at the bottom of
page 13 (called it eg.tex) and ran context.  It produced the file
eg.pdf and I notice that it ran luatex with the option
--backend=pdf.

Thanks, those who have done massive amounts of advanced work on
ConTeXt and luatex, huge projects which are costing me nothing.  But,
I have a problem.

I have a PostScript printer.  I'd prefer not to have to run pdf2ps.

How can ps output be produced directly?  context --backend=ps eg
doesn't do it and there is nothing about --backend or other options in
the index, of ConTeXt, The Manual, as far as I can see.  There's no
Reference/en/backend on the wiki.
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Example ConTeXt document: PS output

2010-07-09 Thread luigi scarso
On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 5:46 PM, Michael Talbot-Wilson m...@view.net.au wrote:
 I've just installed ConTeXt minimal and had a look at ConTeXt, The
 Manual.  I typed in the example document that starts at the bottom of
 page 13 (called it eg.tex) and ran context.  It produced the file
 eg.pdf and I notice that it ran luatex with the option
 --backend=pdf.

 Thanks, those who have done massive amounts of advanced work on
 ConTeXt and luatex, huge projects which are costing me nothing.  But,
 I have a problem.

 I have a PostScript printer.  I'd prefer not to have to run pdf2ps.
Does not AdobeReader help here ?

 How can ps output be produced directly?  context --backend=ps eg
 doesn't do it and there is nothing about --backend or other options in
 the index, of ConTeXt,
pdf and dvi are  the only backend .
In mkiv (I suppose you are using mkiv because of  context )
the pdf backend is actually the only backend.

-- 
luigi
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Example ConTeXt document: PS output

2010-07-09 Thread Vedran Miletić
2010/7/9 luigi scarso luigi.sca...@gmail.com:
 pdf and dvi are  the only backend .
 In mkiv (I suppose you are using mkiv because of  context )
 the pdf backend is actually the only backend.

Luigi has summarized it pretty much. Even though LuaTeX can actually
produce DVI, I'm not sure if it can be called to do so from ConTeXt.

On the other hand, MkII provides --dvi switch which actually produces
ps using dvips, so you can try that.

Regards,

-- 
Vedran Miletić
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Example ConTeXt document: PS output

2010-07-09 Thread Michael Talbot-Wilson

On Fri, 9 Jul 2010, Vedran Mileti?~G wrote:


2010/7/9 luigi scarso luigi.sca...@gmail.com:
pdf and dvi are ??the only backend .
In mkiv (I suppose you are using mkiv because of ??context )
the pdf backend is actually the only backend.


Luigi has summarized it pretty much. Even though LuaTeX can actually
produce DVI, I'm not sure if it can be called to do so from ConTeXt.

On the other hand, MkII provides --dvi switch which actually produces
ps using dvips, so you can try that.


Thanks for your reply.  Both.  But Luigi seems to say LuaTeX can NOT
actually produce DVI.  Or is that just ConTeXt?  With minimals I can't
run luatex directly.  It wants a format file that is not there.
Presumably maximals has it.  So I can't try using luatex
--backend=dvi hello_world directly on my hello_world.tex to see if
that option's supported.

The LuaTeX Reference has not yet achieved an index and I don't know
where else a list of luatex command line options might be found.

But if there is no dvi or final ps output I think perhaps ConTeXt is
not for me just now.  Something Unix-oriented would be more usable.
Something alien will throw up other problems.

Oh, yes.  May have a look at MkII.  But does it use LuaTeX?  The
possibility of easy macros in Lua rather than difficult macros in TeX
would be one attraction of ConTeXt.  Maybe Eplain LuaTeX is what I
need.

Thanks again.___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Example ConTeXt document: PS output

2010-07-09 Thread luigi scarso
On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 4:46 AM, Michael Talbot-Wilson m...@view.net.au wrote:
 Thanks for your reply.  Both.  But Luigi seems to say LuaTeX can NOT
 actually produce DVI.  Or is that just ConTeXt?
LuaTex aims to become the next pdftex, and  it already has a dvi output mode.
ConText mkiv today is very pdf oriented, it doesn't support dvi very
well, if at all.


With minimals I can't
 run luatex directly.  It wants a format file that is not there.
You can build one: see files under
minimals-beta/tex/texmf-context/tex/generic/context
exp. luatex-plain.tex

 Presumably maximals has it.  So I can't try using luatex
 --backend=dvi hello_world directly on my hello_world.tex to see if
 that option's supported.
The option is  --output-format
--output-format=FORMATuse FORMAT for job output; FORMAT is
'dvi' or 'pdf'
If CACHE is the dir of your cache where there are  the formats
(ie 
CACHE=/opt/luatex/minimals-beta-eurotex-2010/tex/texmf-cache/luatex-cache/context/8951e8d562c3f685559ce86173519cf6/formats
you can try just now with

luatex --fmt=$CACHE/cont-en --lua=$CACHE/cont-en.lui --backend=dvi
 test.tex



 The LuaTeX Reference has not yet achieved an index and I don't know
 where else a list of luatex command line options might be found.
try to search inside the pdf then with xpdf

 But if there is no dvi or final ps output I think perhaps ConTeXt is
 not for me just now.  Something Unix-oriented would be more usable.
 Something alien will throw up other problems.
I'm using Linux from 20years and I must to say that minimal is  full
Unix oriented
(I always though  that with context Hans uses Windows in an Unix way)
I don't understand why you are so tied to dvi.
Even postscript is a bit outdated as final output: pdf is the standard-defacto
and convert pdf to ps is really easy with the suite of programs from
xpdf or acrobat reader.
If you like the Unix way a bash script is trivial.


 Oh, yes.  May have a look at MkII.  But does it use LuaTeX?
no, it uses pdftex

  The
 possibility of easy macros in Lua rather than difficult macros in TeX
 would be one attraction of ConTeXt.
Really True (I sould say TRUE) .
 Maybe Eplain LuaTeX is what I
 need.
No sure: mkiv adds a lots of lua macros that you should rewrite by yourself then


-- 
luigi
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Example ConTeXt document: PS output

2010-07-09 Thread Michael Talbot-Wilson

On Sat, 10 Jul 2010, Michael Talbot-Wilson wrote:


Oh, yes.  May have a look at MkII.  But does it use LuaTeX?  The
possibility of easy macros in Lua rather than difficult macros in TeX
would be one attraction of ConTeXt.  Maybe Eplain LuaTeX is what I
need.


Let me correct that.  Confused ravings.  I was really looking for (1)
font management making it easier to install new and unusual fonts
without delving up to my armpits in tfm, pk, whatever, (2) something
with Metapost more integrated, allowing easy placement of vector
graphics in the document and allowing them to be defined within the
document text file.

It seemed momentarily that ConTeXt might be one way, and since there
was an old version called MkII and a new version called MkIV, that
MkIV was a sane place to start.___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Example ConTeXt document: PS output

2010-07-09 Thread luigi scarso
On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 5:32 AM, Michael Talbot-Wilson m...@view.net.au wrote:
 On Sat, 10 Jul 2010, Michael Talbot-Wilson wrote:

 Oh, yes.  May have a look at MkII.  But does it use LuaTeX?  The
 possibility of easy macros in Lua rather than difficult macros in TeX
 would be one attraction of ConTeXt.  Maybe Eplain LuaTeX is what I
 need.

 Let me correct that.  Confused ravings.  I was really looking for (1)
 font management making it easier to install new and unusual fonts
 without delving up to my armpits in tfm, pk, whatever, (2) something
 with Metapost more integrated, allowing easy placement of vector
 graphics in the document and allowing them to be defined within the
 document text file.

 It seemed momentarily that ConTeXt might be one way, and since there
 was an old version called MkII and a new version called MkIV, that
 MkIV was a sane place to start.

You have dropped dvi and ps constrains, so without no doubt
context mkiv is the optimal choice.


-- 
luigi
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] Example ConTeXt document: PS output

2010-07-09 Thread Michael Talbot-Wilson

On Sat, 10 Jul 2010, luigi scarso wrote:


Let me correct that. ??Confused ravings. ??I was really looking for (1)
font management making it easier to install new and unusual fonts
without delving up to my armpits in tfm, pk, whatever, (2) something
with Metapost more integrated, allowing easy placement of vector
graphics in the document and allowing them to be defined within the
document text file.
...

You have dropped dvi and ps constrains, so without no doubt
context mkiv is the optimal choice.


Running I think any browser on any Linux system, if I see a PDF file
on the Web and click on print, and then print to a file, I
automatically finish up with a .ps file.  Which I can display with gv.
The PDF format was all the time redundant.

It may be that the graphic arts trade has switched to PDF as its
standard, did long ago make that switch, but no-one told my printer.

And even I prefer to avoid unnecessary conversions of image formats
when I only want to print images.  Using Photoshop I save as EPS,
switch to Linux, run eplain, print a PostScript image (and text) on a
PostScript printer, and that's the end of it.  No double conversion of
images, with the risk of degrading image quality.  Or with the
superstition that there could be such a risk.

I'm not competent to debate the merits of PDF versus PS but I know
what I want.

I would like the high-level conveniences of ConTeXt, the ones I
mentioned, but they don't supersede the rest.

The luatex manpage in luatex-beta-0.60.2.tar.bz2 says:

In  DVI  mode, luaTeX can be used as a complete replacement for the
TeX engine.___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___