Re: [NTG-context] Fwd: Re: The binomial coefficients do not look optimal

[Mikael P. Sundqvist]

On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 6:36 PM, Hans Hagen  wrote:

>
>
>
>  Forwarded Message 
> Subject: Re: [NTG-context] The binomial coefficients do not look optimal
> Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2017 18:35:53 +0200
> From: Hans Hagen 
> To: Mikael P. Sundqvist 
>
> On 9/2/2017 4:58 PM, Mikael P. Sundqvist wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 7:49 PM, Hans Hagen  pra...@wxs.nl>> wrote:
>>
>> On 9/1/2017 1:56 PM, Mikael P. Sundqvist wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I stumbled upon this (see the attached file for the result):
>>
>> %%% Test file
>> \setupbodyfont[10pt]
>> \starttext
>> \startTEXpage[offset=10pt]
>> \type{\tbinom{n}{k}}: $\tbinom{n}{k}$, (does not look good, the
>> vertical space between $n$ and $k$ is too big) \par
>> \type{\binom{n}{k}}: $\binom{n}{k}$ (looks fine to me)\par
>> \type{\dbinom{n}{k}}: $\dbinom{n}{k}$ (does not look good, too
>> big parenthesis, even for displayed formulas).\par
>> \stopTEXpage
>> \stoptext
>> %%% End of test file
>>
>> I think something should be changed to get the binomial
>> coefficients to look better. In particular I am concerned about
>> the rather big parenthesis in displaystyle (and not so much
>> about the vertical space issue in \tbinom).
>>
>> /Mikael
>>
>> PS The result looked better if I used the lucida fonts, if that
>> helps.
>>
>> This is indeed font dependent. These binoms use a low level tex
>> primitive that uses a threshold for steps and that one is part of
>> the math parameters of a font and these are not that good for lm. As
>> I'm looking into some other low level side effect I was in the mood
>> for a configuration option for \setupmathfractions.
>>
>> So, in the next beta you can get the effects iof the attached:
>>
>> - relate the threshold to the bodyfont size
>> - use normal left/right fences instead
>>
>> fwiw, cambria and pagella look better too. Upto you to wikify it.
>>
>> Hans
>>
>> -
>>Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>>Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>> tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl
>>  | www.pragma-pod.nl
>> 
>> -
>>
>> 
>> ___
>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an
>> entry to the Wiki!
>>
>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl  /
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>> 
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>> 
>> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
>> 
>> ___
>>
>>
>> Thank you very much, I'm looking forward to the next beta, and I will try
>> to wikify it when I have tried it out. Also lucida looks better than latin
>> modern does at the moment.
>>
>> I am a bit confused about the different versions. I would have guessed
>> that there was \tbinom and \dbinom and that \binom used one of them
>> depending on if one is in text mode or in display mode (just as I would
>> expect \frac to behave like \tfrac in text mode and \dfrac in display
>> mode). But \tbinom looks very different from \binom in text mode (with more
>> vertical space).  Is this on purpose? Have I missed something?
>>
> One can configure those things but the absense of rules and presence of
> fences matters too (all kind of inter-this-or-that and
> above-below-this-or-that playts a role).
>
> Hans
>
> -
>   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>   Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -
> 
> ___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/list
> info/ntg-context
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> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
> 
> ___



Today the new beta 

[NTG-context] Fwd: Re: The binomial coefficients do not look optimal

[Hans Hagen]

 Forwarded Message 
Subject: Re: [NTG-context] The binomial coefficients do not look optimal
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2017 18:35:53 +0200
From: Hans Hagen 
To: Mikael P. Sundqvist 

On 9/2/2017 4:58 PM, Mikael P. Sundqvist wrote:
On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 7:49 PM, Hans Hagen > wrote:


On 9/1/2017 1:56 PM, Mikael P. Sundqvist wrote:

Hi,

I stumbled upon this (see the attached file for the result):

%%% Test file
\setupbodyfont[10pt]
\starttext
\startTEXpage[offset=10pt]
\type{\tbinom{n}{k}}: $\tbinom{n}{k}$, (does not look good, the
vertical space between $n$ and $k$ is too big) \par
\type{\binom{n}{k}}: $\binom{n}{k}$ (looks fine to me)\par
\type{\dbinom{n}{k}}: $\dbinom{n}{k}$ (does not look good, too
big parenthesis, even for displayed formulas).\par
\stopTEXpage
\stoptext
%%% End of test file

I think something should be changed to get the binomial
coefficients to look better. In particular I am concerned about
the rather big parenthesis in displaystyle (and not so much
about the vertical space issue in \tbinom).

/Mikael

PS The result looked better if I used the lucida fonts, if that
helps.

This is indeed font dependent. These binoms use a low level tex
primitive that uses a threshold for steps and that one is part of
the math parameters of a font and these are not that good for lm. As
I'm looking into some other low level side effect I was in the mood
for a configuration option for \setupmathfractions.

So, in the next beta you can get the effects iof the attached:

- relate the threshold to the bodyfont size
- use normal left/right fences instead

fwiw, cambria and pagella look better too. Upto you to wikify it.

Hans

-
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
        tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl
 | www.pragma-pod.nl

-


___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an
entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl  /
http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context

webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/

wiki     : http://contextgarden.net

___


Thank you very much, I'm looking forward to the next beta, and I will 
try to wikify it when I have tried it out. Also lucida looks better than 
latin modern does at the moment.


I am a bit confused about the different versions. I would have guessed 
that there was \tbinom and \dbinom and that \binom used one of them 
depending on if one is in text mode or in display mode (just as I would 
expect \frac to behave like \tfrac in text mode and \dfrac in display 
mode). But \tbinom looks very different from \binom in text mode (with 
more vertical space).  Is this on purpose? Have I missed something?
One can configure those things but the absense of rules and presence of 
fences matters too (all kind of inter-this-or-that and 
above-below-this-or-that playts a role).


Hans

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___