Re: [NTG-context] How could a typesetting system be today?

2008-06-14 Thread Olivier Guéry
Hello, I'm a clarinetist, I used lilypond, realy great tool. I'm using linux since 10 years, vim is my editor. I'm not a mouse-adict user. But as Donal Knuth seems to say : I can't act like mathematician, it's not what I am. Il like lilypond, and Contex. I like the may they manage to produce

Re: [NTG-context] How could a typesetting system be today? (slightly off-topic, flame and nostalgic)

2008-06-13 Thread Maurí­cio
Aditya Mahajan a écrit : On Thu, 12 Jun 2008, Hans Hagen wrote: Maurí­cio wrote: used ‘ϕ’ in a math formula for one of his papers and Context it showing up depends on what you use (mkii or mkiv), if the character is defined, if the font has it (in text mode) etc etc For mkii you simply

Re: [NTG-context] How could a typesetting system be today?

2008-06-13 Thread Henning Hraban Ramm
Am 2008-06-12 um 20:26 schrieb Maurí cio: The reason for a standard tag language is that the main engine should be able to do some operations on data, like breaking it in pieces like words, paragraphs or staffs on music scores, sometimes without fully understanding what exactly those are.

Re: [NTG-context] How could a typesetting system be today?

2008-06-13 Thread Maurí­cio
The reason for a standard tag language is that the main engine should be able to do some operations on data, like breaking it in pieces like words, paragraphs or staffs on music scores, sometimes without fully understanding what exactly those are. Possible outcomes: with a proper

Re: [NTG-context] How could a typesetting system be today?

2008-06-13 Thread Charles P. Schaum
There is your unified system. XML rulez - for better or for worse. It's really no fun to write XML by hand. But, as you said, TeX and Lilypond have a similar syntax. I belive they could share some kind of common language. What you are thinking about is probably a master document

Re: [NTG-context] How could a typesetting system be today? (slightly off-topic, flame and nostalgic)

2008-06-12 Thread Hans Hagen
Maurí­cio wrote: used ‘ϕ’ in a math formula for one of his papers and Context it showing up depends on what you use (mkii or mkiv), if the character is defined, if the font has it (in text mode) etc etc could not open it, since it was a PDF revision 1.8 instead of 1.3 indeed a future

Re: [NTG-context] How could a typesetting system be today? (slightly off-topic, flame and nostalgic)

2008-06-12 Thread Maurí­cio
Do you mean like Scrivener on the Mac? I don’t know. I tried Context, then TeX, than went back to Context. Now also Metapost. Sorry for beeing biased, but I really like the programer approach to computers. What, in any case, constitutes a universal layout approach? Does one exist? (...) I

Re: [NTG-context] How could a typesetting system be today?

2008-06-12 Thread Maurí­cio
Thanks, Idris, for your interest. I don’t understand enough about typesetting and computer math to make an informed sugestion, but I’ll try my best. What about a Metapost-like main engine to define the general layout of pages? That engine would know about borders, floating spaces for pictures or

Re: [NTG-context] How could a typesetting system be today?

2008-06-11 Thread Maurí­cio
Sorry to insist, but I would be really interested in approaches that are not just great things we could add to TeX. For instance: would it be possible to have some kind of “layout engine” to which text processing would be just one among other plug-ins? I wonder what kind of information that

Re: [NTG-context] How could a typesetting system be today?

2008-06-11 Thread Idris Samawi Hamid
Hi Maurício, On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 18:12:21 -0600, Maurí­cio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry to insist, but I would be really interested in approaches that are not just great things we could add to TeX. For instance: would it be possible to have some kind of “layout engine” to which text

Re: [NTG-context] How could a typesetting system be today?

2008-06-11 Thread Charles P. Schaum
Do you mean like Scrivener on the Mac? What, in any case, constitutes a universal layout approach? Does one exist? For example, I can do things with plain TeX that mighty InDesign must balk at. Yet some see TeX as yesteryear's solution because of subsequent tech advances. I hardly believe that

Re: [NTG-context] How could a typesetting system be today?

2008-06-01 Thread luigi scarso
- a GUI ;-) and thus layout by let's try how it looks Almost true. Here it seems that there is a way to embed latex in scribus http://wiki.scribus.net/index.php/Working_with_latex_frames Also http://lists.scribus.info/pipermail/scribus/2007-January/024109.html -- luigi

Re: [NTG-context] How could a typesetting system be today?

2008-05-31 Thread Steffen Wolfrum
Am 30.05.2008 um 09:12 schrieb Yue Wang: advanced software, like InDesign Well, ... Steffen ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist :

Re: [NTG-context] How could a typesetting system be today?

2008-05-31 Thread Henning Hraban Ramm
Am 2008-05-31 um 04:20 schrieb luigi scarso: There are still some areas where you need a programmable system, even trivia like chapter dependant running titles (in ConTeXt: headertexts). Isn't indesign programmable too ? I know people who use it in an automatic workflow for db publishing

Re: [NTG-context] How could a typesetting system be today?

2008-05-31 Thread luigi scarso
Last night I remembered two more things that TeX can't do, but every layout app can: - text flow around other elements (images) \parshape ? - really working multiple-column layout in context columnset with two pass strategy -- luigi

Re: [NTG-context] How could a typesetting system be today?

2008-05-31 Thread Yue Wang
On 5/31/08, luigi scarso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Last night I remembered two more things that TeX can't do, but every layout app can: - text flow around other elements (images) \parshape ? I forword an email to the professor. it discuss some of the points together with some examples.

Re: [NTG-context] How could a typesetting system be today?

2008-05-31 Thread luigi scarso
On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 2:57 PM, Yue Wang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/31/08, luigi scarso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Last night I remembered two more things that TeX can't do, but every layout app can: - text flow around other elements (images) \parshape ? I forword an email to the

Re: [NTG-context] How could a typesetting system be today?

2008-05-31 Thread luigi scarso
- much faster (i.e. I don't need to wait for several TeX runs e.g. if I need to check if some tweak fixed my page breaking) On average true for manual composition, maybe false for automatic workflow - optical (vs. metrical) kerning hz ? - a GUI ;-) and thus layout by let's try how it looks

Re: [NTG-context] How could a typesetting system be today?

2008-05-31 Thread Hans Hagen
luigi scarso wrote: - optical (vs. metrical) kerning hz ? all those kerning options can lead to rather bad text ... i get the impression that wrongly applied hz (extreme values) and intercharacter spacing and such in general lead to bad text ... i read quite some books and am sometimes

Re: [NTG-context] How could a typesetting system be today?

2008-05-30 Thread luigi scarso
On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 7:08 AM, Aditya Mahajan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 30 May 2008, Maurí­cio wrote: Hi, Just because I'm curious: how could a typesetting system like TeX be if it was created today? luatex http://www.luatex.org There is ant http://ant.berlios.de/ River

Re: [NTG-context] How could a typesetting system be today?

2008-05-30 Thread Yue Wang
There is ant http://ant.berlios.de/, but it is supposed to be saner form of TeX (in terms of source code, and easy of configuration) which was developed from scratch. The user interface is quite similar to TeX. I do not know much about the internal differences between Ant and TeX. ANT have

Re: [NTG-context] How could a typesetting system be today?

2008-05-30 Thread Taco Hoekwater
Maurí­cio wrote: Hi, Just because I'm curious: how could a typesetting system like TeX be if it was created today? I've tried google and wikipedia, and all I found different from TeX is a system called 'Lout', but it seems dead. Does anyone knows about novel or interesting ideas that

Re: [NTG-context] How could a typesetting system be today?

2008-05-30 Thread Taco Hoekwater
Aditya Mahajan wrote: Does anyone knows about novel or interesting ideas that could be used if we would write a new typesetting system from scratch? River detection, which is done by ant, but not by TeX. If there was a clear algorithm I could implement that in luatex. But I have not

Re: [NTG-context] How could a typesetting system be today?

2008-05-30 Thread Yue Wang
Hi. Practically speaking, I expect it would be a lot like lyx with tex built in. Who would design a document language without front-end these days? Maybe using LuaTeX + wxLua + Poppler is a better approach? Yue Wang

Re: [NTG-context] How could a typesetting system be today?

2008-05-30 Thread Steffen Wolfrum
Am 30.05.2008 um 09:12 schrieb Yue Wang: advanced software, like InDesign well ... cough ... Steffen ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist :

Re: [NTG-context] How could a typesetting system be today?

2008-05-30 Thread Martin Schröder
2008/5/30 Taco Hoekwater [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Aditya Mahajan wrote: River detection, which is done by ant, but not by TeX. If there was a clear algorithm I could implement that in luatex. But I have not seen any whitepaper on the subject and I cannot read OCaml source well enough to understand

Re: [NTG-context] How could a typesetting system be today?

2008-05-30 Thread Yue Wang
On 5/30/08, Steffen Wolfrum [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am 30.05.2008 um 09:12 schrieb Yue Wang: advanced software, like InDesign well ... cough ... There is no denying that many advanced features in InDesign are missing in TeX(like) related software. What's more, the internationalization of

Re: [NTG-context] How could a typesetting system be today?

2008-05-30 Thread Olivier Guéry
On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 6:18 AM, Maurí­cio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Just because I'm curious: how could a typesetting system like TeX be if it was created today? I've tried google and wikipedia, and all I found different from TeX is a system called 'Lout', but it seems dead. I think

Re: [NTG-context] How could a typesetting system be today?

2008-05-30 Thread Idris Samawi Hamid
Hi Yue, On Fri, 30 May 2008 06:24:56 -0600, Yue Wang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: advanced software, like InDesign well ... cough ... There is no denying that many advanced features in InDesign are missing in TeX(like) related software. What's more, the internationalization of InDesign is

Re: [NTG-context] How could a typesetting system be today?

2008-05-30 Thread Steffen Wolfrum
Am 30.05.2008 um 14:24 schrieb Yue Wang: On 5/30/08, Steffen Wolfrum [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am 30.05.2008 um 09:12 schrieb Yue Wang: advanced software, like InDesign well ... cough ... There is no denying that many advanced features in InDesign are missing in TeX(like) related

Re: [NTG-context] How could a typesetting system be today?

2008-05-30 Thread Alan BRASLAU
On Friday 30 May 2008 16:15:08 Steffen Wolfrum wrote: Am 30.05.2008 um 14:24 schrieb Yue Wang: On 5/30/08, Steffen Wolfrum [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am 30.05.2008 um 09:12 schrieb Yue Wang: advanced software, like InDesign well ... cough ... There is no denying that many advanced

Re: [NTG-context] How could a typesetting system be today?

2008-05-30 Thread Henning Hraban Ramm
Am 2008-05-30 um 14:31 schrieb Idris Samawi Hamid: There is no denying that many advanced features in InDesign are missing in TeX(like) related software. What's more, the internationalization of InDesign is better. Can you give a precise list of the features contained in InDesign that are

Re: [NTG-context] How could a typesetting system be today?

2008-05-30 Thread luigi scarso
There are still some areas where you need a programmable system, even trivia like chapter dependant running titles (in ConTeXt: headertexts). Isn't indesign programmable too ? I know people who use it in an automatic workflow for db publishing -- luigi

[NTG-context] How could a typesetting system be today?

2008-05-29 Thread Maurí­cio
Hi, Just because I'm curious: how could a typesetting system like TeX be if it was created today? I've tried google and wikipedia, and all I found different from TeX is a system called 'Lout', but it seems dead. Does anyone knows about novel or interesting ideas that could be used if we would

Re: [NTG-context] How could a typesetting system be today?

2008-05-29 Thread Aditya Mahajan
On Fri, 30 May 2008, Maurí­cio wrote: Hi, Just because I'm curious: how could a typesetting system like TeX be if it was created today? I've tried google and wikipedia, and all I found different from TeX is a system called 'Lout', but it seems dead. There is ant http://ant.berlios.de/, but