Re: [NTG-context] Small caps as a separate font

[Stefan Nedeljkovic via ntg-context]

Here is the output of mtxrun. Note that there are two versions: T (title)
and ST (subtitle). I want the title version.

mtxrun --script fonts --list --all --pattern=DTL
identifier familyname fontname
filenamesubfont   instances

dtldocumentaitalic dtldocumenta   dtldocumentasansstitalic
DTL Documenta Sans ST Italic.otf
dtldocumentanormal dtldocumenta   dtldocumentasansstitalic
DTL Documenta Sans ST Italic.otf
dtldocumentaregulardtldocumenta   dtldocumentasansst
DTL Documenta Sans ST Regular.otf
dtldocumentasansst dtldocumenta   dtldocumentasansst
DTL Documenta Sans ST Regular.otf
dtldocumentasansstitalic   dtldocumenta   dtldocumentasansstitalic
DTL Documenta Sans ST Italic.otf
dtldocumentasansstregular  dtldocumenta   dtldocumentasansst
DTL Documenta Sans ST Regular.otf
dtldocumentasanst  dtldocumenta   dtldocumentasanst
 DTL Documenta Sans T Regular.otf
dtldocumentasanstcaps  dtldocumenta   dtldocumentasanstcaps
 DTL Documenta Sans T Caps Regular.otf
dtldocumentasanstcapsregular   dtldocumenta   dtldocumentasanstcaps
 DTL Documenta Sans T Caps Regular.otf
dtldocumentasansteuro  dtldocumenta   dtldocumentasansteuro
 DTL Documenta Sans T Euro.otf
dtldocumentasanstitalicdtldocumenta   dtldocumentasanstitalic
 DTL Documenta Sans T Italic.otf
dtldocumentasanstregular   dtldocumenta   dtldocumentasanst
 DTL Documenta Sans T Regular.otf

I tried \definefontfamily[DTL-Documenta-Sans-T][ss][DTL-Documenta-Sans-T]
but it does not work with \sc.

On Wed, May 25, 2022 at 10:30 PM Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context <
ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote:

> Am 25.05.22 um 22:23 schrieb Stefan Nedeljkovic via ntg-context:
> > Dear list,
> >
> > A quick question about a font that has a separate file for small caps. I
> > have the following:
> >
> >
> > \starttypescript [sans] [dtl-documenta-sans-t]
> > \definefontsynonym[Sans] [name:dtldocumentasanst][features=default]
> > \definefontsynonym[SansItalic]
> > [name:dtldocumentasanstitalic][features=default]
>
> \definefontsynonym[SansCaps][name:dtldocumentasanstcaps][features=default]
>
> > \stoptypescript
> >
> >
> > \starttypescript [sans] [dtl-documenta-sans-t-sc]
> > \definefontsynonym[Sans] [name:dtldocumentasanstcaps][features=default]
> > \definefontsynonym[SansItalic]
> > [name:dtldocumentasanstcapsitalic][features=default]
> > \stoptypescript
> >
> >
> > How can I define dtl-documenta-sans such that I can do:
> >
> > \setupbodyfont[dtl-documenta-sans,rm,10pt]
> >
> > \starttext
> > \setff{smallcaps}{Small Caps Hamburgerfons}, \setff{smallcaps}{\it Small
> > Caps Italic Hamburgerfons},
> > \stoptext
>
> Single smallcaps fonts work the traditional way with \sc, not via
> OpenType features (if I’m not mistaken and this gets mapped automagically).
>
> Hraban
>
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Re: [NTG-context] Small caps as a separate font

[Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context]

Am 25.05.22 um 22:23 schrieb Stefan Nedeljkovic via ntg-context:

Dear list,

A quick question about a font that has a separate file for small caps. I 
have the following:



\starttypescript [sans] [dtl-documenta-sans-t]
\definefontsynonym[Sans] [name:dtldocumentasanst][features=default]
\definefontsynonym[SansItalic] 
[name:dtldocumentasanstitalic][features=default]


\definefontsynonym[SansCaps][name:dtldocumentasanstcaps][features=default]


\stoptypescript


\starttypescript [sans] [dtl-documenta-sans-t-sc]
\definefontsynonym[Sans] [name:dtldocumentasanstcaps][features=default]
\definefontsynonym[SansItalic] 
[name:dtldocumentasanstcapsitalic][features=default]

\stoptypescript


How can I define dtl-documenta-sans such that I can do:

\setupbodyfont[dtl-documenta-sans,rm,10pt]

\starttext
\setff{smallcaps}{Small Caps Hamburgerfons}, \setff{smallcaps}{\it Small 
Caps Italic Hamburgerfons},

\stoptext


Single smallcaps fonts work the traditional way with \sc, not via 
OpenType features (if I’m not mistaken and this gets mapped automagically).


Hraban
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[NTG-context] Small caps as a separate font

[Stefan Nedeljkovic via ntg-context]

Dear list,

A quick question about a font that has a separate file for small caps. I
have the following:


\starttypescript [sans] [dtl-documenta-sans-t]
\definefontsynonym[Sans] [name:dtldocumentasanst][features=default]
\definefontsynonym[SansItalic]
[name:dtldocumentasanstitalic][features=default]
\stoptypescript


\starttypescript [sans] [dtl-documenta-sans-t-sc]
\definefontsynonym[Sans] [name:dtldocumentasanstcaps][features=default]
\definefontsynonym[SansItalic]
[name:dtldocumentasanstcapsitalic][features=default]
\stoptypescript


How can I define dtl-documenta-sans such that I can do:

\setupbodyfont[dtl-documenta-sans,rm,10pt]

\starttext
\setff{smallcaps}{Small Caps Hamburgerfons}, \setff{smallcaps}{\it Small
Caps Italic Hamburgerfons},
\stoptext


Sincerely,
Stefan
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Re: [NTG-context] Small caps and bold

[Procházka Lukáš Ing .]

Hello,

On Thu, 14 Dec 2017 10:16:33 +0100, Hans Hagen  wrote:


On 12/14/2017 8:37 AM, Procházka Lukáš Ing. wrote:

Hello,

I'm trying to typeset some text in bold + smallcaps.

But even the sample on wiki:

 http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Bold_small_caps

extended to:


\starttext
   \setff{smallcaps} Normal and \bf bold Small Caps.

   {\sc Normal and \bf bold Small Caps.}
\stoptext


doesn't produce bold small caps - see the attached files.

So - how to get bold small caps?

at least you need a bold font that has smallcaps ...


how do I get list of fonts which provide bold+smallcaps?

With "mtxrun --script font --list --all ..." somehow?

Rest regards,

Lukas



Hans



--
Ing. Lukáš Procházka | mailto:l...@pontex.cz
Pontex s. r. o.  | mailto:pon...@pontex.cz | http://www.pontex.cz | 
IDDS:nrpt3sn
Bezová 1658
147 14 Praha 4

Mob.: +420 702 033 396

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[NTG-context] Small caps and bold

[Procházka Lukáš Ing .]

Hello,

I'm trying to typeset some text in bold + smallcaps.

But even the sample on wiki:

http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Bold_small_caps

extended to:


\starttext
  \setff{smallcaps} Normal and \bf bold Small Caps.

  {\sc Normal and \bf bold Small Caps.}
\stoptext


doesn't produce bold small caps - see the attached files.

So - how to get bold small caps?

Best regards,

Lukas


--
Ing. Lukáš Procházka | mailto:l...@pontex.cz
Pontex s. r. o.  | mailto:pon...@pontex.cz | http://www.pontex.cz | 
IDDS:nrpt3sn
Bezová 1658
147 14 Praha 4

Mob.: +420 702 033 396

BfSc.mkiv
Description: Binary data


BfSc.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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Re: [NTG-context] Small caps from otf in luatex.

[john Culleton]

On Sat, 10 Aug 2013 19:24:17 +0200
Philipp Gesang philipp.ges...@alumni.uni-heidelberg.de wrote:

 Hi John!
 
 ···date: 2013-08-10, Saturday···from: john Culleton···
 
  I have asked everywhere else to no avail. In (plain) luatex how do I
  specify the small cap version of an otf font? I use context for
  non-fiction but pdftex and now luatex for fiction.
 
 Plain uses a feature syntax similar to Xetex___s:
 
   \font \foo = file:Iwona-Regular.otf:+smcp
   \foo
   whatever
   \bye
 
 the expression after the second colon is the same as ___smcp=yes___
 in Context. Multiple definitions are separated by semicola, e.g.:
 
   \font \foo = file:Iwona-Regular.otf:+smcp;mode=base;+tlig
 
 Best regards,
 Philipp
 
Thanks! Now my latest book project can move forward. I never
thought to look in xetex for an answer about luatex.


-- 
John Culleton
Wexford Press
Free list of books for self-publishers:
http://wexfordpress.net/shortlist.html
PDF e-book: Create Book Covers with Scribus
available at http://www.booklocker.com/books/4055.html
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[NTG-context] Small caps from otf in luatex.

[john Culleton]

I have asked everywhere else to no avail. In (plain) luatex how do I
specify the small cap version of an otf font? I use context for
non-fiction but pdftex and now luatex for fiction.

-- 
John Culleton

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Re: [NTG-context] Small caps from otf in luatex.

[Philipp Gesang]

Hi John!

···date: 2013-08-10, Saturday···from: john Culleton···

 I have asked everywhere else to no avail. In (plain) luatex how do I
 specify the small cap version of an otf font? I use context for
 non-fiction but pdftex and now luatex for fiction.

Plain uses a feature syntax similar to Xetex’s:

  \font \foo = file:Iwona-Regular.otf:+smcp
  \foo
  whatever
  \bye

the expression after the second colon is the same as “smcp=yes”
in Context. Multiple definitions are separated by semicola, e.g.:

  \font \foo = file:Iwona-Regular.otf:+smcp;mode=base;+tlig

Best regards,
Philipp



pgpjSKkfeNnpq.pgp
Description: PGP signature
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Re: [NTG-context] Small caps?

[Marco]

On 2012-07-25 Shriramana Sharma samj...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi Shriramana,

 Hi thanks for your help. Sorry to keep returning with errors (but as I
 said I'm a noob):
 
 loading : ConTeXt User Module / Simplefonts
 ! Undefined control sequence.
 l.144 \ctxloadluafile
  {t-simplefonts}{}

simplefonts is a MkIV module, you are using MkII. If you don't have
a particular reason to use MkII with XeTeX I would recommend to
switch to MkIV and LuaTeX. The difference is basically compiling
with “context file.tex” instead of “texexec --xetex file.tex”. And
it is also recommended to use an up-to-date context installation
(since apparently your version is  quite old). You'll find more info
about installing an up-to-date MkIV on the wiki:

http://wiki.contextgarden.net/ConTeXt_Standalone


Marco


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Re: [NTG-context] Small caps?

[Hans Hagen]

On 25-7-2012 04:33, Shriramana Sharma wrote:


Basically I'm trying to move away from wordprocessors, and while I'm
not looking for meaningless effects like walking ants (from MS Word)
to be provided by TeX macro packages, faux smallcaps (and oblique and
bold) is not an unreasonable thing to expect IMO. Not everyone is a
typographer to produce the appropriate fine-typography glyphs for
their favourite font to cater to a particular style. Why should the
system impose super-duper typography on users when they are willing
to settle for less?


Sure, but one problem with a mkii fake approach is that it is fragile 
when something else than 8 bit characters shows up in the content 
stream. In mkiv that's less an issues as there completely different 
solutions are used.


Hans

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 | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: [NTG-context] Small caps?

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 9:35 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:
 On 25-7-2012 04:33, Shriramana Sharma wrote:

 Basically I'm trying to move away from wordprocessors, and while I'm
 not looking for meaningless effects like walking ants (from MS Word)
 to be provided by TeX macro packages, faux smallcaps (and oblique and
 bold) is not an unreasonable thing to expect IMO. Not everyone is a
 typographer to produce the appropriate fine-typography glyphs for
 their favourite font to cater to a particular style. Why should the
 system impose super-duper typography on users when they are willing
 to settle for less?

 Sure, but one problem with a mkii fake approach is that it is fragile when
 something else than 8 bit characters shows up in the content stream.

Is that also true for XeTeX? (What is an 8-bit character when talking of XeTeX?)

As far as I remember converting uppercase into lowercase or vice versa
should work out of the box in XeTeX (all the lccodes and uccodes are
properly set already).

[But I have no idea how that black magic with \Words  \Caps and their
zillions of variants works.]

 In mkiv
 that's less an issues as there completely different solutions are used.

But it lacks Indic scripts, so it's not an option for him, at least not yet.

Mojca
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Re: [NTG-context] Small caps?

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 9:04 AM, Marco wrote:
 On 2012-07-25 Shriramana Sharma wrote:

 Hi Shriramana,

 Hi thanks for your help. Sorry to keep returning with errors (but as I
 said I'm a noob):

 loading : ConTeXt User Module / Simplefonts
 ! Undefined control sequence.
 l.144 \ctxloadluafile
  {t-simplefonts}{}

 simplefonts is a MkIV module, you are using MkII. If you don't have
 a particular reason to use MkII with XeTeX

He does. He just explained that he wants to use Indic scripts and
unless someone writes support for them ...

However this means that t-simplefonts are not an option either. Btw:
shouldn't the module check that it's running MKIV and complain if it
doesn't (with a clear error message as opposed to undefined
command)?

Mojca
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Re: [NTG-context] Small caps?

[Hans Hagen]

On 25-7-2012 09:41, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 9:35 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:

On 25-7-2012 04:33, Shriramana Sharma wrote:


Basically I'm trying to move away from wordprocessors, and while I'm
not looking for meaningless effects like walking ants (from MS Word)
to be provided by TeX macro packages, faux smallcaps (and oblique and
bold) is not an unreasonable thing to expect IMO. Not everyone is a
typographer to produce the appropriate fine-typography glyphs for
their favourite font to cater to a particular style. Why should the
system impose super-duper typography on users when they are willing
to settle for less?


Sure, but one problem with a mkii fake approach is that it is fragile when
something else than 8 bit characters shows up in the content stream.


Is that also true for XeTeX? (What is an 8-bit character when talking of XeTeX?)


On the one hand less, as a token can be an utf character, but fo rother 
bits and pieces of the input it is still tricky. Given the earlier 
posted code:


\smallcaps{àáâãäå Watch out for returns.}

That works, but the next doesn't:

\smallcaps{àáâãäå Watch out for \TEX\ returns.}

So, a parser would have to deal with things like this:

\TEX
{\bold test}
\hbox{test}

There are some token processors in mkii that deal with some of these 
aspects.



But it lacks Indic scripts, so it's not an option for him, at least not yet.


Indic scripts will be supported in mkiv some day soon (at the ntg 
meeting there has been a presentation about devanagari etc using the 
context font machinery and that will be integrated once it's stable).


Hans

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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 | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: [NTG-context] Small caps?

[Shriramana Sharma]

Hi thanks everyone for their responses.

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 1:23 PM, Hans Hagen pra...@wxs.nl wrote:
 But it lacks Indic scripts, so it's not an option for him, at least not
 yet.

 Indic scripts will be supported in mkiv some day soon (at the ntg meeting
 there has been a presentation about devanagari etc using the context font
 machinery and that will be integrated once it's stable).

Hi -- I'm curious to know about your future plans for Indic. Are you
going to use HarfBuzz? Even in Indic, I have specific minority
orthography requirements due to which I'm using Graphite-enabled
fonts. HarfBuzz (new one, not old one) supports Graphite and so my
requirements would be met if that is used, but if you are going to
develop yet another rendering system (please don't tell me it's so) it
would be quite difficult...

-- 
Shriramana Sharma
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Re: [NTG-context] Small caps?

[luigi scarso]

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 10:16 AM, Shriramana Sharma samj...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hi thanks everyone for their responses.

 On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 1:23 PM, Hans Hagen pra...@wxs.nl wrote:
  But it lacks Indic scripts, so it's not an option for him, at least not
  yet.
 
  Indic scripts will be supported in mkiv some day soon (at the ntg meeting
  there has been a presentation about devanagari etc using the context font
  machinery and that will be integrated once it's stable).

 Hi -- I'm curious to know about your future plans for Indic. Are you
 going to use HarfBuzz? Even in Indic, I have specific minority
 orthography requirements due to which I'm using Graphite-enabled
 fonts. HarfBuzz (new one, not old one) supports Graphite and so my
 requirements would be met if that is used, but if you are going to
 develop yet another rendering system (please don't tell me it's so) it
 would be quite difficult...

 ok, we don't tell  it to you.
-- 
luigi
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Re: [NTG-context] Small caps?

[Hans Hagen]

On 25-7-2012 10:16, Shriramana Sharma wrote:

Hi thanks everyone for their responses.

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 1:23 PM, Hans Hagen pra...@wxs.nl wrote:

But it lacks Indic scripts, so it's not an option for him, at least not
yet.


Indic scripts will be supported in mkiv some day soon (at the ntg meeting
there has been a presentation about devanagari etc using the context font
machinery and that will be integrated once it's stable).


Hi -- I'm curious to know about your future plans for Indic. Are you
going to use HarfBuzz? Even in Indic, I have specific minority
orthography requirements due to which I'm using Graphite-enabled
fonts. HarfBuzz (new one, not old one) supports Graphite and so my
requirements would be met if that is used, but if you are going to
develop yet another rendering system (please don't tell me it's so) it
would be quite difficult...


luatex does not use specific libraries but assumes all to be done in lua 
.. the otf machinery in mkiv is lua based (independent, extensible) and 
support for indic runs on top of that (the additional code is written by 
some dutchies who need it for high end academic publishing) ... I don't 
know about specific monorities but demos of several variants were shown


Hans

-
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Re: [NTG-context] Small caps?

[Rogers, Michael K]

On Jul 25, 2012, at 1:06 AM, Shriramana Sharma wrote:

 On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 10:29 AM, Rogers, Michael K mrog...@emory.edu wrote:

 Here's a hack, which sort of works, definitely doesn't handle return -- 
 there must be a better way.  I hope you don't mind my using your text as 
 text. :-)

 Hi thanks for your help. Sorry to keep returning with errors (but as I
 said I'm a noob):

 loading : ConTeXt User Module / Simplefonts
 ! Undefined control sequence.
 l.144 \ctxloadluafile
 {t-simplefonts}{}

 I checked and the package context-modules is installed on my system.

Sorry about that.  You should load your font in your usual way.  As has been 
pointed out, this is not a robust solution.

% load your favorite font here
\def\smallcaps{\begingroup\let\par=\space\obeylines\obeyspaces\let\myspace=\space\dosmallcaps}
\def\dosmallcaps#1{\dosc#1\end\endgroup}
\def\dosc#1{% assumes #1 is a sequence of characters
 \ifx#1\end \let\next=\relax
 \else\if#1\space \myspace\let\myspace=\relax% skip repeated spaces
   \else\ifnum\lccode`#1=`#1{\tfx \uppercase{#1}}% change \tfx to your desired 
size
 \else #1\fi
 \let\myspace=\space
   \fi
   \let\next=\dosc
 \fi\next}
\starttext
Basically I'm trying to move away from wordprocessors, and while I'm
not looking for meaningless effects like walking ants
\smallcaps{(from MS Word)}
to be provided by \TeX\ macro packages, faux smallcaps (and oblique and
bold) is not an unreasonable thing to expect IMO. Not everyone is a
typographer to produce the appropriate fine-typography glyphs for
their favourite font to cater to a particular style. Why should the
system impose
\smallcaps{super-duper Typography}
on users when they are willing
to settle for less?
\smallcaps{Look,
returns now work}
%\smallcaps{but \TeX\ and other control sequences do not.}
\stoptext




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Re: [NTG-context] Small caps?

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 25.07.2012 um 09:43 schrieb Mojca Miklavec:

 On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 9:04 AM, Marco wrote:
 On 2012-07-25 Shriramana Sharma wrote:
 
 Hi Shriramana,
 
 Hi thanks for your help. Sorry to keep returning with errors (but as I
 said I'm a noob):
 
 loading : ConTeXt User Module / Simplefonts
 ! Undefined control sequence.
 l.144 \ctxloadluafile
 {t-simplefonts}{}
 
 simplefonts is a MkIV module, you are using MkII. If you don't have
 a particular reason to use MkII with XeTeX
 
 He does. He just explained that he wants to use Indic scripts and
 unless someone writes support for them ...
 
 However this means that t-simplefonts are not an option either. Btw:
 shouldn't the module check that it's running MKIV and complain if it
 doesn't (with a clear error message as opposed to undefined
 command)?

This doesn’t happen anymore with the new version where I include
a XeTeX version of the module which I has lying on my system.

Wolfgang
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[NTG-context] Small caps?

[Shriramana Sharma]

Hello. I'm a veritable noob to both TeX and ConTeXT, so please bear
with my ignorance. I request your kind guidance. (BTW as I use Indic
scripts a lot, my typesetting engine is XeTeX.)

I want to produce small caps like those I can get in LibreOffice by
doing Right Click  Character  Font Effects  Effects  Small
Capitals. Basically the capital letters would be shown in their
regular size and the small letters would be shown as small size
capital letters.

Using \sc seems to select a particular font and ignore my current font
selection. (I am using DejaVu Sans Condensed font.) \kap or \cap seems
to produce all small caps which is not what I want -- only the small
letters in the text should be shown as small caps and the capital
letters in the text should be left alone.

Can anyone please advise me what to do to get small caps in my current
font like in LibO and other popular GUI word-processing systems?

Thanks!

-- 
Shriramana Sharma
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Re: [NTG-context] Small caps?

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 24.07.2012 um 21:11 schrieb Shriramana Sharma:

 Hello. I'm a veritable noob to both TeX and ConTeXT, so please bear
 with my ignorance. I request your kind guidance. (BTW as I use Indic
 scripts a lot, my typesetting engine is XeTeX.)
 
 I want to produce small caps like those I can get in LibreOffice by
 doing Right Click  Character  Font Effects  Effects  Small
 Capitals. Basically the capital letters would be shown in their
 regular size and the small letters would be shown as small size
 capital letters.
 
 Using \sc seems to select a particular font and ignore my current font
 selection. (I am using DejaVu Sans Condensed font.) \kap or \cap seems
 to produce all small caps which is not what I want -- only the small
 letters in the text should be shown as small caps and the capital
 letters in the text should be left alone.
 
 Can anyone please advise me what to do to get small caps in my current
 font like in LibO and other popular GUI word-processing systems?

\definehighlight[smallcaps][style=\setff{smallcaps}]

\setupbodyfont[pagella]

\starttext

upright {\it italic} {\sc smallcaps}

upright {\it italic} {\it\setff{smallcaps}smallcaps}

upright {\it italic} {\it\smallcaps{smallcaps}}

\stoptext

Wolfgang
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Re: [NTG-context] Small caps?

[Shriramana Sharma]

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 12:55 AM, Wolfgang Schuster
schuster.wolfg...@gmail.com wrote:
 \definehighlight[smallcaps][style=\setff{smallcaps}]

Hello and thanks for your help but even if I copy-paste your example
into TeXWorks and typeset it (remember, I'm using ConTeXT with XeTeX)
I get the error:

Undefined control sequence.
l.1 \definehighlight
[smallcaps][style=\setff{smallcaps}]

-- 
Shriramana Sharma
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Re: [NTG-context] Small caps?

[Marco]

On 2012-07-25 Shriramana Sharma samj...@gmail.com wrote:

 Can anyone please advise me what to do to get small caps in my current
 font like in LibO and other popular GUI word-processing systems?

My guess is that DejaVu Sans Condensed has no small caps. That's why
you get the unexpected result. LibO might fake the small caps, which
should usually be avoided, since it often leads to typographically
bad results. If you need caps, select a font which provides them.

Marco


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Re: [NTG-context] Small caps?

[Hans Hagen]

On 24-7-2012 21:29, Shriramana Sharma wrote:

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 12:55 AM, Wolfgang Schuster
schuster.wolfg...@gmail.com wrote:

\definehighlight[smallcaps][style=\setff{smallcaps}]


Hello and thanks for your help but even if I copy-paste your example
into TeXWorks and typeset it (remember, I'm using ConTeXT with XeTeX)
I get the error:

Undefined control sequence.
l.1 \definehighlight
 [smallcaps][style=\setff{smallcaps}]


you probably run an ancient mkiv .. this command has been around for a 
while


Hans

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Re: [NTG-context] Small caps?

[Khaled Hosny]

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 11:21:22PM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:
 On 24-7-2012 21:29, Shriramana Sharma wrote:
 On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 12:55 AM, Wolfgang Schuster
 schuster.wolfg...@gmail.com wrote:
 \definehighlight[smallcaps][style=\setff{smallcaps}]
 
 Hello and thanks for your help but even if I copy-paste your example
 into TeXWorks and typeset it (remember, I'm using ConTeXT with XeTeX)
 I get the error:
 
 Undefined control sequence.
 l.1 \definehighlight
  [smallcaps][style=\setff{smallcaps}]
 
 you probably run an ancient mkiv .. this command has been around for
 a while

He is using XeTeX, no MkIV for him.

Regards,
 Khaled
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Re: [NTG-context] Small caps?

[Shriramana Sharma]

Thanks to all who replied.

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 1:04 AM, Marco net...@lavabit.com wrote:
 My guess is that DejaVu Sans Condensed has no small caps. That's why
 you get the unexpected result. LibO might fake the small caps, which
 should usually be avoided, since it often leads to typographically
 bad results. If you need caps, select a font which provides them.

Hi -- is there absolutely no way for obtaining these fake small caps
in ConTeXT? The thread
http://www.tug.org/pipermail/xetex/2008-July/010325.html seems to
contain some hints but they are fotr for LaTeX. I don't want to switch
to LaTeX just for this.

Basically I'm trying to move away from wordprocessors, and while I'm
not looking for meaningless effects like walking ants (from MS Word)
to be provided by TeX macro packages, faux smallcaps (and oblique and
bold) is not an unreasonable thing to expect IMO. Not everyone is a
typographer to produce the appropriate fine-typography glyphs for
their favourite font to cater to a particular style. Why should the
system impose super-duper typography on users when they are willing
to settle for less?

-- 
Shriramana Sharma
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Re: [NTG-context] Small caps?

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Wed, 25 Jul 2012, Shriramana Sharma wrote:


On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 1:04 AM, Marco net...@lavabit.com wrote:

My guess is that DejaVu Sans Condensed has no small caps. That's why
you get the unexpected result. LibO might fake the small caps, which
should usually be avoided, since it often leads to typographically
bad results. If you need caps, select a font which provides them.


Hi -- is there absolutely no way for obtaining these fake small caps
in ConTeXT? The thread
http://www.tug.org/pipermail/xetex/2008-July/010325.html seems to
contain some hints but they are fotr for LaTeX. I don't want to switch
to LaTeX just for this.


See 
http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20060818.041218.86ea7e08.en.html



Basically I'm trying to move away from wordprocessors, and while I'm
not looking for meaningless effects like walking ants (from MS Word)
to be provided by TeX macro packages, faux smallcaps (and oblique and
bold) is not an unreasonable thing to expect IMO. Not everyone is a
typographer to produce the appropriate fine-typography glyphs for
their favourite font to cater to a particular style. Why should the
system impose super-duper typography on users when they are willing
to settle for less?


Slightly modified version of the above macro:

\def\fakesmallcaps{\let\processword\dofakesmallcapped\processwords}
\def\dofakesmallcapped#1{\dostartfakesmallcapped#1\dostopfakesmallcapped}
\def\dostartfakesmallcapped#1#2\dostopfakesmallcapped{\cap{#1\cap{#2}}}

\starttext
\fakesmallcaps{Introduction Again}
\stoptext

(Stictly speaking, this is not faking small caps rather it is forcing the 
first letter of each work to be captial)


Aditya
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Re: [NTG-context] Small caps?

[Shriramana Sharma]

Hello Aditya and thanks for your help. However, the following file
still does not my particular selected font to be shown in faux small
caps:

\def\fakesmallcaps{\let\processword\dofakesmallcapped\processwords}
\def\dofakesmallcapped#1{\dostartfakesmallcapped#1\dostopfakesmallcapped}
\def\dostartfakesmallcapped#1#2\dostopfakesmallcapped{\cap{#1\cap{#2}}}

\font\fontlatin = Gentium Basic at 12 pt
\font\fontlatintwo = DejaVu Sans Condensed at 16 pt

\starttext
\fontlatin
\fakesmallcaps{Testing This}
\fontlatintwo
\fakesmallcaps{Testing This}
\stoptext

-- 
Shriramana Sharma
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Re: [NTG-context] Small caps?

[Rogers, Michael K]

On Jul 24, 2012, at 10:33 PM, Shriramana Sharma wrote:

 Hi -- is there absolutely no way for obtaining these fake small caps
 in ConTeXT?

Here's a hack, which sort of works, definitely doesn't handle return -- there 
must be a better way.  I hope you don't mind my using your text as text. :-)

\usemodule[simplefonts]
\setmainfont[DejaVuSansCondensed]
\def\smallcaps{\begingroup\obeyspaces\let\myspace=\space\dosmallcaps}
\def\dosmallcaps#1{\dosc#1\end\endgroup}
\def\dosc#1{%
  \ifx#1\end \let\next=\relax
  \else\if#1\space \myspace\let\myspace=\relax% skip repeated spaces
\else\ifnum\lccode`#1=`#1{\tfx \uppercase{#1}}% change \tfx to your desired 
size
  \else #1\fi
  \let\myspace=\space
\fi
\let\next=\dosc
  \fi\next}
\starttext
Not everyone is a
typographer to produce the appropriate fine-typography glyphs for
their favourite font to cater to a particular style. Why should the
system impose
\smallcaps{super-duper Typography}
on users when they are willing
to settle for less?
\smallcaps{Watch out  for
returns.}
\stoptext

Alternatively, you could settle for a font that has small caps.




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Re: [NTG-context] Small caps?

[Shriramana Sharma]

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 10:29 AM, Rogers, Michael K mrog...@emory.edu wrote:

 Here's a hack, which sort of works, definitely doesn't handle return -- 
 there must be a better way.  I hope you don't mind my using your text as 
 text. :-)

Hi thanks for your help. Sorry to keep returning with errors (but as I
said I'm a noob):

loading : ConTeXt User Module / Simplefonts
! Undefined control sequence.
l.144 \ctxloadluafile
 {t-simplefonts}{}

I checked and the package context-modules is installed on my system.

-- 
Shriramana Sharma
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Re: [NTG-context] Small caps problem/bug with some fonts

[Hans Hagen]

Barry Schwartz wrote:


Are there fonts that have a or b in the numr and dnom features but
where they do not work in frac?


that is unrelated, the replacement rules refer to glyphs an doften they 
stick to digits so you get a/b with a large a and b and the fractional 
slash which then gives an ugly overlap


Hans


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Re: [NTG-context] Small caps problem/bug with some fonts

[Barry Schwartz]

Hans Hagen pra...@wxs.nl skribis:
 so, its not that frac itself is the problem dealing with in the engine, 
 because if so, many features would be a problem, it's just that font 
 makers stick to a couple of simple rules like:
 
 (1) replace all
digits slash digits
  by
sup digits overlapping frac slash sub digits
 
 (1) replace all
digits slash digits
  by
sup digits overlapping frac slash sub digits
 
 and if they have rule 2, it will mess up things like a/b

Is rule (2) missing? I see (1) twice.

Are there fonts that have a or b in the numr and dnom features but
where they do not work in frac?

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Re: [NTG-context] Small caps problem/bug with some fonts

[Hans Hagen]

Barry Schwartz wrote:

Hans Hagen pra...@wxs.nl skribis:

Barry Schwartz wrote:


If base mode uses the traditional TeX mechanism for ligatures, I don't
see any way the font can be blamed.


Ant does the same thing, I believe, using the OT tables and heuristics
to run the TeX processor. That's okay, as long as the results aren't
blamed on the font. :)


well, that's alway sa bit hard to determine, maybe not in this case but 
there definitely are dubious cases and heuristics that works in one case 
migh tfail in another; also, as context base mode is mostly meant for 
simple cases (and as said, it might be wise in the case of snallcaps to 
not enable ligatures) and therefore suits most cases, but as reference 
(and for more advanced work) node mode has to be used ... actually, when 
users report bugs with fonts i kind of assume node mode


in the perspective of the oriental tex project (related to luatex/mkiv) 
a complex font is being made and quite some time goes into figuring out 
what exactly the common ground in ot is (we've decided to settle for 
uniscribe/volt for final decisions as that's the most advanced machinery)


for instance there are more combinations possible on otf than the font 
generating programs can handle and some combinations are only handled by 
some renderers. of course the mkiv machinery can be blamed for much, but 
so can the specification itself, the font generating tools as wel as fonts


the best we can do is to try to deal with all but eventually i think 
that i'll end up with a couple of extra features / checks / etc; there's 
also already a patch mechanism in place


having more advanced fonts is nice, but unfortunately (for commercial 
reasons, or for stability reasons or ...) font vendors have no real bug 
fix and upgrade policy but at least i can fix my own bugs -)


btw, in most cases it helps to nail down problems when we have the font, 
which not always is the case, so in such cases we might need to gamble 
where the problem sits


Hans


-
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 | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: [NTG-context] Small caps problem/bug with some fonts

[Hans Hagen]

Barry Schwartz wrote:

Hans Hagen pra...@wxs.nl skribis:
but even then, if a font is not clear about issues, then one can get 
unwanted side effects (the frac feature for instance is often quite 
bugged and can only be applied selectively)


Yeah, I think trying to be fancy with contextual substitutions is a
bit like getting drunk. I'm not even sure why there was a frac tag
when it was originally intended to be converted to numr and dnom
tags.

(I just looked at
http://www.microsoft.com/typography/otspec160/features_fj.htm#frac
to see what it says nowadays and now want to go get drunk.)


actually the frac featurs, like most features is a rather generic one 
and as such it should work out of the box (some of the justitication 
features use gpos and/or assume specific renderer support, and some of 
that is rather undefined)


so, its not that frac itself is the problem dealing with in the engine, 
because if so, many features would be a problem, it's just that font 
makers stick to a couple of simple rules like:


(1) replace all
  digits slash digits
by
  sup digits overlapping frac slash sub digits

(1) replace all
  digits slash digits
by
  sup digits overlapping frac slash sub digits

and if they have rule 2, it will mess up things like a/b

of course it can be properly dealt with ... just make proper rules

now, one reason that metafont kind of design tools never were accepted 
as basic tool for font design is that designers are no programmers; and 
one needs programmers (or at least some of the related mindset) to make 
the more complex ot fonts (or one needs teams)


actually, as many fonts do have the sup/sub digits its rather trivial to 
provide proper frac's in mkiv but till now i had no reason (time, 
project, etc) for doing it


i fear the moment when designers start giving me rules like use this or 
that font and turn on those features assuming dtp like control and 
tweaking of the text (one reason for spending much time on fonts in mkiv 
is that it will give me control over bad behaving fonts; think of wrong 
glyph to unicode mapping and such)




Hans

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[NTG-context] Small caps problem/bug with some fonts

[Mika Ritola]

Hello all,

For some reason, the snippet below outputs 'ThOMAS' instead of 'THOMAS.'
This seems to be font dependent; at least Adobe Jenson Pro and Adobe
Garamond Pro produce 'Th,' while the other fonts that I've tried produce
'TH', as expected. I don't know whether the bug exists in the fonts
themselves or in the way they are handled by ConTeXt or the Simplefonts
module, or possibly some other part of the system. In any case, could you
suggest a work-around, please?

I'm using ConText version 2009.09.16 20:07 and Simplefonts version
2009.09.15.


\usemodule[simplefonts]
\setmainfont[Adobe Jenson Pro]

\starttext
{\sc Thomas}
\stoptext


Thanks in advance,

Mika
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Re: [NTG-context] Small caps problem/bug with some fonts

[Hans Hagen]

Derek CORDEIRO wrote:


\usemodule[simplefonts]


Question for wolfgang ... do you enable node mode?

in basemode, it might be that ligatures are loaded after smallcaps (and 
base mode is static) and then it's the order of features in the font 
that determines what happens,


if so, then maybe we should disable ligatures in the smallcaps 
featureset definition (as i don't expect many smallcaps ligs anyway and 
it might be less confusing)


Hans

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Re: [NTG-context] Small caps problem/bug with some fonts

[Hans Hagen]

Derek CORDEIRO wrote:


That does not work for me at all. The following does work with generating
the same ThOMAS


another test:

\definefontfeature[default]  [default]  [mode=node]
\definefontfeature[smallcaps][smallcaps][mode=node]
\definefontfeature[oldstyle] [oldstyke] [mode=node]

Hans

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Re: [NTG-context] Small caps problem/bug with some fonts

[Hans Hagen]

Barry Schwartz wrote:

Hans Hagen pra...@wxs.nl skribis:
could it be a bug in the font? i.e. a Th ligature showing up in 
smallcaps? if so, then simplefonts should disable ligatures in smallcaps


I'm looking at AGaramondPro-Regular in fontforge and it has the lookup
for small caps well above the lookup for ligatures. The software must
be reading the lookup table out of order.


no, it's just that basemode gets two features and replacement and 
ligatures are both applied due to the definition of the smallcaps 
featureset, so it's expected behaviour


- either adapt the definition of the smallcaps featureset (i'll do that 
in the next beta)
- or switch to nodemode (in your case nodemode applies smallcaps before 
ligatures)


Hans

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Re: [NTG-context] Small caps problem/bug with some fonts

[Derek CORDEIRO]

On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 11:31 PM, Hans Hagen pra...@wxs.nl wrote:

 Derek CORDEIRO wrote:

  That does not work for me at all. The following does work with generating
 the same ThOMAS


 another test:

 \definefontfeature[default]  [default]  [mode=node]
 \definefontfeature[smallcaps][smallcaps][mode=node]
 \definefontfeature[oldstyle] [oldstyle] [mode=node]


This works well too.

Regards,
Derek
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Re: [NTG-context] Small caps problem/bug with some fonts

[Barry Schwartz]

Hans Hagen pra...@wxs.nl skribis:
 Barry Schwartz wrote:
  Hans Hagen pra...@wxs.nl skribis:
  could it be a bug in the font? i.e. a Th ligature showing up in 
  smallcaps? if so, then simplefonts should disable ligatures in smallcaps
  
  I'm looking at AGaramondPro-Regular in fontforge and it has the lookup
  for small caps well above the lookup for ligatures. The software must
  be reading the lookup table out of order.
   

I should have said lookup list table.

 
 no, it's just that basemode gets two features and replacement and 
 ligatures are both applied due to the definition of the smallcaps 
 featureset, so it's expected behaviour

The font is unambiguous about it, though. Are you sure the software
isn't performing the feature list in order rather than lookup list? Or
is the software performing substitutions in its own ad hoc order?

Now I _make_ opentype fonts with small caps and ligatures and so want
the software to do what I tell it (except when it was I who made the
error).  :)


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Re: [NTG-context] Small caps problem/bug with some fonts

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 18.09.2009 um 19:57 schrieb Hans Hagen:


Question for wolfgang ... do you enable node mode?


No.

Wolfgang

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Re: [NTG-context] Small caps problem/bug with some fonts

[Hans Hagen]

Barry Schwartz wrote:


If base mode uses the traditional TeX mechanism for ligatures, I don't
see any way the font can be blamed.


sure

Hans

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Re: [NTG-context] Small caps problem/bug with some fonts

[Barry Schwartz]

Hans Hagen pra...@wxs.nl skribis:
 Barry Schwartz wrote:
 
  If base mode uses the traditional TeX mechanism for ligatures, I don't
  see any way the font can be blamed.

Ant does the same thing, I believe, using the OT tables and heuristics
to run the TeX processor. That's okay, as long as the results aren't
blamed on the font. :)


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Re: [NTG-context] Small caps problem/bug with some fonts

[Barry Schwartz]

Hans Hagen pra...@wxs.nl skribis:
 but even then, if a font is not clear about issues, then one can get 
 unwanted side effects (the frac feature for instance is often quite 
 bugged and can only be applied selectively)

Yeah, I think trying to be fancy with contextual substitutions is a
bit like getting drunk. I'm not even sure why there was a frac tag
when it was originally intended to be converted to numr and dnom
tags.

(I just looked at
http://www.microsoft.com/typography/otspec160/features_fj.htm#frac
to see what it says nowadays and now want to go get drunk.)



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Re: [NTG-context] small caps and old numbers with open type fonts

[Wolfgang Schuster]

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 11:59 AM, Antoine Junod [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Wolfgang!

 Wolfgang Schuster [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 8:39 PM, Antoine Junod [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Hello list,
 
  I actually use my font as simple as possible with a
  \definefont[boum][MyFont at 12pt]. Is it the problem?
 
  It the same with the \sc command.
 
  \definefont[boum][MyFont at 12pt]
  \definefont[scboum][MyFont*smallcaps at 12pt]

 Wow, beautifull, thanks :) Where is the * and what we can put after
 (smallcaps for example) described? I have the strong feeling to search
 in the wrong place without any result.

The * is used to assign a feature to the font and you could find
a description in font-ini.tex /grep for \definefontfeature) but the better
way is to use typescripts for your fonts.

ConTeXt has the following features predefined:
- default
- smallcaps
- oldstyle

It is also possible to change the features of a font within the text
with the command \setfontfeature{...}.

Wolfgang
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Re: [NTG-context] small caps and old numbers with open type fonts

[Antoine Junod]

Hi,

Thanks a lot for your reply :)

Henning Hraban Ramm [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Am 2008-04-13 um 20:39 schrieb Antoine Junod:
 I actually use my font as simple as possible with a
 \definefont[boum][MyFont at 12pt]. Is it the problem?

 Yes. You should set up your fonts with a typescript and access small  
 caps / oldstyle as features.

Okay. I've digged a bit about typescripts. If I've understood what I
read, I need to use the \definefontsysnonym command. But I'm currently
not able to find any doc about \definefontsynonym (a grammar or a
definition or something identical). Texshow does not contain it, nor
does the context commands manual. I've seen a bit about it in the
Fonts in Context manual (mfonts.pdf) but nothing about the 'feature'
as in type-otf.tex [1]. I'll try to copy / paste in an clever way (hum
:) but would be relly interesting if someone could point me to a
complete doc.

Thanks for you reply and greetings from Lake Léman, not Constance :)
-AJ

[1] http://source.contextgarden.net/type-otf.tex
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Re: [NTG-context] small caps and old numbers with open type fonts

[Antoine Junod]

Hi Wolfgang!

Wolfgang Schuster [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 8:39 PM, Antoine Junod [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello list,

 I actually use my font as simple as possible with a
 \definefont[boum][MyFont at 12pt]. Is it the problem?

 It the same with the \sc command.

 \definefont[boum][MyFont at 12pt]
 \definefont[scboum][MyFont*smallcaps at 12pt]

Wow, beautifull, thanks :) Where is the * and what we can put after
(smallcaps for example) described? I have the strong feeling to search
in the wrong place without any result.

Best regards, 
-AJ
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Re: [NTG-context] small caps and old numbers with open type fonts

[Antoine Junod]

Wolfgang Schuster [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 11:59 AM, Antoine Junod [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Wolfgang!

 Wolfgang Schuster [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 8:39 PM, Antoine Junod [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Hello list,
 
  I actually use my font as simple as possible with a
  \definefont[boum][MyFont at 12pt]. Is it the problem?
 
  It the same with the \sc command.
 
  \definefont[boum][MyFont at 12pt]
  \definefont[scboum][MyFont*smallcaps at 12pt]

 Wow, beautifull, thanks :) Where is the * and what we can put after
 (smallcaps for example) described? I have the strong feeling to
 search in the wrong place without any result.

 The * is used to assign a feature to the font and you could find a
 description in font-ini.tex /grep for \definefontfeature) but the
 better way is to use typescripts for your fonts.

Okay. That's what I'm trying to do right now.

 ConTeXt has the following features predefined:
 - default
 - smallcaps
 - oldstyle

Yep, I saw them in font-ini.tex, as you pointed me to.

 It is also possible to change the features of a font within the text
 with the command \setfontfeature{...}.

But, if I've understood the point, there is no reason to do that if I
use a proper typescript. Right?

Best regards,
-AJ
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Re: [NTG-context] small caps and old numbers with open type fonts

[Wolfgang Schuster]

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 12:34 PM, Antoine Junod [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Wolfgang Schuster [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 11:59 AM, Antoine Junod [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Hi Wolfgang!
 
  Wolfgang Schuster [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
   On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 8:39 PM, Antoine Junod [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Hello list,
  
   I actually use my font as simple as possible with a
   \definefont[boum][MyFont at 12pt]. Is it the problem?
  
   It the same with the \sc command.
  
   \definefont[boum][MyFont at 12pt]
   \definefont[scboum][MyFont*smallcaps at 12pt]
 
  Wow, beautifull, thanks :) Where is the * and what we can put after
  (smallcaps for example) described? I have the strong feeling to
  search in the wrong place without any result.
 
  The * is used to assign a feature to the font and you could find a
  description in font-ini.tex /grep for \definefontfeature) but the
  better way is to use typescripts for your fonts.

 Okay. That's what I'm trying to do right now.

  ConTeXt has the following features predefined:
  - default
  - smallcaps
  - oldstyle

 Yep, I saw them in font-ini.tex, as you pointed me to.

You could also define your own font features with \definefontfeature

  It is also possible to change the features of a font within the text
  with the command \setfontfeature{...}.

 But, if I've understood the point, there is no reason to do that if I
 use a proper typescript. Right?

It depends what do you want, normally no but you could use it to
change the figures in a table to tabular figures.

Wolfgang
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Re: [NTG-context] small caps and old numbers with open type fonts

[Wolfgang Schuster]

On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 8:39 PM, Antoine Junod [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello list,

 I'm still playing with a few otf fonts and enjoying the way ConTeXt
 works :)

 I'm now playing with a beautiful Garamond. I try to typeset a few
 things with old-style numbers and, well, the output contains old-style
 numbers but not in my Garamond (it seems to be in latin modern). What
 should I do to use the old-style numbers of my font? Did a miss a doc
 about that? Or did I missunderstood the \os command (I thought it was
 a switch to the old-style of the font but it seems rather to change of
 font)?

 I actually use my font as simple as possible with a
 \definefont[boum][MyFont at 12pt]. Is it the problem?

 It the same with the \sc command.

\definefont[boum][MyFont at 12pt]
\definefont[scboum][MyFont*smallcaps at 12pt]

\starttext

\boum ABCabc123

\scboum ABCabc123

\stoptext

Wolfgang
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[NTG-context] small caps and old numbers with open type fonts

[Antoine Junod]

Hello list,

I'm still playing with a few otf fonts and enjoying the way ConTeXt
works :)

I'm now playing with a beautiful Garamond. I try to typeset a few
things with old-style numbers and, well, the output contains old-style
numbers but not in my Garamond (it seems to be in latin modern). What
should I do to use the old-style numbers of my font? Did a miss a doc
about that? Or did I missunderstood the \os command (I thought it was
a switch to the old-style of the font but it seems rather to change of
font)?

I actually use my font as simple as possible with a
\definefont[boum][MyFont at 12pt]. Is it the problem?

It the same with the \sc command.

Thanks a lot for your reply,
-AJ
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Re: [NTG-context] small caps and old numbers with open type fonts

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 2008-04-13 um 20:39 schrieb Antoine Junod:
 I actually use my font as simple as possible with a
 \definefont[boum][MyFont at 12pt]. Is it the problem?

Yes. You should set up your fonts with a typescript and access small  
caps / oldstyle as features.

Sorry, can't help you further at the moment, but there were a lot of  
mails/threads on similar subjects in the last few weeks.


Greetlings from Lake Constance!
Hraban
---
http://www.fiee.net/texnique/
http://wiki.contextgarden.net
https://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)

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Re: [NTG-context] small caps italic and font switching inside math

[Vit Zyka]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:
 On 7/1/06, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
 Mojca Miklavec wrote:
 On 6/29/06, Taco Hoekwater wrote:

 {\bf A test \variant[Caps] in small caps}
 Does this work on your computer? (I don't get any caps here.)
 No it doesn't, it was a leftover from a failed experiment

I did not follow the thread closely but can it help you
   http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Pseudo_Small_Caps
?

vit

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Re: [NTG-context] small caps italic and font switching inside math

[Taco Hoekwater]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:
 
It works perfect except in a single case: \title{\molecule{SF_6}}

I had seen that, but not yet bothered to fix it. Still, it is
fairly easy to change the macro, try the version below.

Sorry, I thought you were talking about the spacing between F and 6.

 Didn't work in titles either (or I did something strange) :(
 But If I write a couple of explicit \lohi-s, it will still be OK.

Good, but it can be fixed, by changing the definition of
\domolecule to:

\def\domolecule#1%
   {\expandafter\scantokens\expandafter
 {\detokenize{#1\finishchem}}\egroup}

This re-tokenizes the argument (needed because it was grabbed
by \title already before \molecule had a chance to change the
catcodes.)


 I didn't really understand the \iffluor-part of the code ... but don't
 bother too much.

It is there to trigger a negative italic superscript correction
(TeX doesn't have a primitive for that :-))

 Thanks a lot for the trickery again (I'm still impressed by the
 \uppercase part),

That is actually a fairly standard trick, not something I invented

Greetings, Taco
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Re: [NTG-context] small caps italic and font switching inside math

[Mojca Miklavec]

On 7/2/06, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
 Mojca Miklavec wrote:
 
 It works perfect except in a single case: \title{\molecule{SF_6}}
 
 I had seen that, but not yet bothered to fix it. Still, it is
 fairly easy to change the macro, try the version below.

 Sorry, I thought you were talking about the spacing between F and 6.

;) great. You solved two problems now ;)

  Didn't work in titles either (or I did something strange) :(
  But If I write a couple of explicit \lohi-s, it will still be OK.

 Good, but it can be fixed, by changing the definition of
 \domolecule to:

 \def\domolecule#1%
{\expandafter\scantokens\expandafter
  {\detokenize{#1\finishchem}}\egroup}

 This re-tokenizes the argument (needed because it was grabbed
 by \title already before \molecule had a chance to change the
 catcodes.)

Seems like understanding \expandafter would solve 90% of my problems.
I tried to understand that part in TeX book, but it's so cryptic (too
short) ... I understand the concept, but I'm not able to write the
code for it yet :(

Thanks!

  I didn't really understand the \iffluor-part of the code ... but don't
  bother too much.

 It is there to trigger a negative italic superscript correction
 (TeX doesn't have a primitive for that :-))

Oh, great!

  Thanks a lot for the trickery again (I'm still impressed by the
  \uppercase part),

 That is actually a fairly standard trick, not something I invented

But it's nevertheless nice ;) I never saw it (probably because I
didn't read and write enough of TeX sources).

Mojca
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Re: [NTG-context] small caps italic and font switching inside math

[Taco Hoekwater]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:
 
 
 Seems like understanding \expandafter would solve 90% of my problems.
 I tried to understand that part in TeX book, but it's so cryptic (too
 short) ... I understand the concept, but I'm not able to write the
 code for it yet :(

The trick to \expandafter is that you (normally) write it backwards
until reaching a moment in time where TeX is not scanning an argument.

Say you have a macro that contains some stuff in it to be typeset by
\type:

   \def\mystuff{Some literal stuff}

Then you begin with

   \type{\mystuff}

but that obviously doesn't work, you want the final input to look like

   \type{Some literal stuff}



Since \expandafter expands the token that follows the after next token
-- whatever the next token is -- you have to insert it backwards across
the opening brace of the argument, like so:

   \type\expandafter{\mystuff}

But this wouldn't work, yet: you are still in the middle of an
expression (the \type expects an argument, and it gets \expandafter
as it stands).

Luckily, \expandafter *itself* is an expandable command, so you
jump back once more and insert another one:

\expandafter\type\expandafter{\mystuff}

Now you are on 'neutral ground', and can stop backtracking.
Easy, once you get the hang of it.

Taco

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Re: [NTG-context] small caps italic and font switching inside math

[Taco Hoekwater]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:
 On 6/29/06, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
 
{\bf A test \variant[Caps] in small caps}
 
 Does this work on your computer? (I don't get any caps here.)

No it doesn't, it was a leftover from a failed experiment

 
 Thanks for the magnificent macro! I replaced minus by $-$ and I had to

Does that really look better? You can have bold endashes, but
you will not get a bold minus.

 remove [left] because that one is only good for isotopes such as

ah. i misunderstood that.

 It works perfect except in a single case: \title{\molecule{SF_6}}

I had seen that, but not yet bothered to fix it. Still, it is
fairly easy to change the macro, try the version below.

It only moves a lone subscript because i like ions better
if the count and charge are aligned, and I also added an italic
correction. It is possible to get everything looking perfect
(of course), but that would require spending much more time
fine-tuning super- and sub scripts.

Positive ions look absolutely awful in latin modern btw. The
plus from CM is dead-ugly when used in this fashion.


Taco

\newbox\chemlowbox
\def\chemlow#1%
   {\setbox\chemlowbox\hbox{{\switchtobodyfont[small]#1}}}

\def\chemhigh#1%
   {\ifvoid\chemlowbox \high{{\switchtobodyfont[small]#1}}%
\else \/\lohi{\box\chemlowbox}{{\switchtobodyfont[small]#1}}\fi }

\def\finishchem%
{\ifvoid\chemlowbox \else
  \iffluor \fluorfalse \kern-.1em \fi\low{\box\chemlowbox}\fi}

\newif\iffluor

\unexpanded\def\molecule%
   {\bgroup
\catcode`\_=\active \uccode`\~=`\_ \uppercase{\let~\chemlow}%
\catcode`\^=\active \uccode`\~=`\^ \uppercase{\let~\chemhigh}%
\dostepwiserecurse {65}{90}{1}
   {\catcode \recurselevel = \active
\uccode`\~=\recurselevel
\uppercase{\edef~{\noexpand\finishchem
  \rawcharacter{\recurselevel%
\uccode `\~=`\F \uppercase{\def~{\finishchem F\fluortrue}}%
\catcode`\-=\active \uccode`\~=`\- \uppercase{\def~{--}}%
\loggingall
\domolecule }%
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Re: [NTG-context] small caps italic and font switching inside math

[Mojca Miklavec]

On 7/1/06, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
 Mojca Miklavec wrote:
  On 6/29/06, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
 
 {\bf A test \variant[Caps] in small caps}
 
  Does this work on your computer? (I don't get any caps here.)

 No it doesn't, it was a leftover from a failed experiment

OK. I thought so :(

 
  Thanks for the magnificent macro! I replaced minus by $-$ and I had to

 Does that really look better? You can have bold endashes, but
 you will not get a bold minus.

emm ... I didn't think about that. And I don't notice any big
difference on the monitor to be honest. I'll use endash, but it
doesn't really matter that much.

  It works perfect except in a single case: \title{\molecule{SF_6}}

 I had seen that, but not yet bothered to fix it. Still, it is
 fairly easy to change the macro, try the version below.

Didn't work in titles either (or I did something strange) :(
But If I write a couple of explicit \lohi-s, it will still be OK.

 It only moves a lone subscript because i like ions better
 if the count and charge are aligned, and I also added an italic
 correction.

Thanks!

 It is possible to get everything looking perfect
 (of course), but that would require spending much more time
 fine-tuning super- and sub scripts.

I don't need that perfect solution. The way it is now is already great.

 Positive ions look absolutely awful in latin modern btw. The
 plus from CM is dead-ugly when used in this fashion.

I may not bother about it - I can't redesign the font and I'll worry
about switching to some other font at the end if necessary, now it's
time to concentrate on content. (A pitty that Knuth wasn't a chemist
as well. The chemists would desperately need something similar for
chemistry what TeX offers for mathematics.)

 \newbox\chemlowbox
 \def\chemlow#1%
{\setbox\chemlowbox\hbox{{\switchtobodyfont[small]#1}}}

 \def\chemhigh#1%
{\ifvoid\chemlowbox \high{{\switchtobodyfont[small]#1}}%
 \else \/\lohi{\box\chemlowbox}{{\switchtobodyfont[small]#1}}\fi }

 \def\finishchem%
 {\ifvoid\chemlowbox \else
   \iffluor \fluorfalse \kern-.1em \fi\low{\box\chemlowbox}\fi}

 \newif\iffluor

 \unexpanded\def\molecule%
{\bgroup
 \catcode`\_=\active \uccode`\~=`\_ \uppercase{\let~\chemlow}%
 \catcode`\^=\active \uccode`\~=`\^ \uppercase{\let~\chemhigh}%
 \dostepwiserecurse {65}{90}{1}
{\catcode \recurselevel = \active
 \uccode`\~=\recurselevel
 \uppercase{\edef~{\noexpand\finishchem
   \rawcharacter{\recurselevel%
 \uccode `\~=`\F \uppercase{\def~{\finishchem F\fluortrue}}%
 \catcode`\-=\active \uccode`\~=`\- \uppercase{\def~{--}}%
 \loggingall
 \domolecule }%

I didn't really understand the \iffluor-part of the code ... but don't
bother too much.

Thanks a lot for the trickery again (I'm still impressed by the
\uppercase part),
Mojca
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Re: [NTG-context] small caps italic and font switching inside math

[Mojca Miklavec]

On 6/29/06, Taco Hoekwater wrote:

 {\bf A test \variant[Caps] in small caps}

Does this work on your computer? (I don't get any caps here.)

 \newbox\chemlowbox
 \def\chemlow#1%
{\setbox\chemlowbox\hbox{{\switchtobodyfont[small]#1}}}

 \def\chemhigh#1%
{\ifvoid\chemlowbox \high{{\switchtobodyfont[small]#1}}%
 \else \lohi[left]{\box\chemlowbox}{{\switchtobodyfont[small]#1}}\fi }

 \def\finishchem{\ifvoid\chemlowbox \else \low{\box\chemlowbox}\fi}

 \unexpanded\def\molecule%
{\bgroup
 \catcode`\_=\active \uccode`\~=`\_ \uppercase{\let~\chemlow}%
 \catcode`\^=\active \uccode`\~=`\^ \uppercase{\let~\chemhigh}%
 \dostepwiserecurse {65}{90}{1}
{\catcode \recurselevel = \active
 \uccode`\~=\recurselevel
 \uppercase{\edef~{\noexpand\finishchem
 \rawcharacter{\recurselevel%
 \catcode`\-=\active \uccode`\~=`\- \uppercase{\def~{--}}%
 \domolecule }%

 \def\domolecule#1{#1\finishchem\egroup}

 \starttext

 \molecule{HSO_4^{-}}
 \molecule{H_2SO_4}

 {\bfa A story about \molecule{SF_6}}
 {\scx A story about \molecule{sf_6}}
 {\bsb A story about \molecule{SF_6}}


 \stoptext

Thanks for the magnificent macro! I replaced minus by $-$ and I had to
remove [left] because that one is only good for isotopes such as
_8^16O (I defined another command for them: they usually don't
appear in formulas anyway), \molecule{SO_4^{2+}} would be weird
otherwise.

It works perfect except in a single case: \title{\molecule{SF_6}}

But please do not lose too much time on it. I can still use explicit
\high and \low in titles (I didn't think about them before you two
reminded me about its existence and I'm very grateful for that).

  i didt follow this thread, so i may be wrong, but doesn't the ppchtex
  (see manuals) module does that kind of stuff?

 It doesn't retain font styles (at least, I could not make it do that)

Same here. I first had my own simple definition \def\molecule#1{$\rm
#1$}, but I didn't know how to change the font automatically.
\chemical{H_2O} is almost the same as the definition above (of course
the latter is much more powerful, but I only needed it for very simple
formulas). In general it's probably not a good idea to typeset the
formulas in bold and/or italic, but that was for some rather special
occasion (very simple formulas often being part of titles,
italic/bold text and so on, ...).

Mojca
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Re: [NTG-context] small caps italic and font switching inside math

[Taco Hoekwater]

Aditya Mahajan wrote:
 Maybe what is needed is a \beforemathswitch token set. Then one could 
 do
 
 \appendtoks \boldmath to \beforemathswitch

Already present: \everymathematics



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Re: [NTG-context] small caps italic and font switching inside math

[Taco Hoekwater]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:

It only gets the size right, not the boldnes. But it can be argued
that that is the correct behaviour anyways.
 
 Not so long ago you argued that \alpha-sheet, \beta-helix,
 \gamma-rays, ... should  be part of text flow (a reason why the el
 companion encoding should have it), not a mathematical thing. I have
 a lot of simple formulas such as \molecule{SF_6} and they look
 a-kind-of-ugly with a tiny script.

So you noticed I was trying to weasly out of something, did you? ;-)

Taco

% The next macro only works as long as you code the subscripts
% before the superscripts!

\newbox\chemlowbox

\def\chemlow#1%
   {\setbox\chemlowbox\hbox{{\switchtobodyfont[small]#1}}}

\def\chemhigh#1%
   {\ifvoid\chemlowbox \high{{\switchtobodyfont[small]#1}}%
\else \lohi[left]{\box\chemlowbox}{{\switchtobodyfont[small]#1}}\fi }

\def\finishchem{\ifvoid\chemlowbox \else \low{\box\chemlowbox}\fi}

\unexpanded\def\molecule%
   {\bgroup
\catcode`\_=\active \uccode`\~=`\_ \uppercase{\let~\chemlow}%
\catcode`\^=\active \uccode`\~=`\^ \uppercase{\let~\chemhigh}%
\dostepwiserecurse {65}{90}{1}
   {\catcode \recurselevel = \active
\uccode`\~=\recurselevel
\uppercase{\edef~{\finishchem \rawcharacter{\recurselevel%
\catcode`\-=\active \uccode`\~=`\- \uppercase{\def~{--}}%
\loggingall
\domolecule }%

\def\domolecule#1{#1\finishchem\egroup}

\starttext

\molecule{HSO_4^{-}}

{\bfa A story about \molecule{SF_6}}
{\scx A story about \molecule{SF_6}}
{\bsb A story about \molecule{SF_6}}


\stoptext


 You could compare it to {\bf How to loose a guy in $10$ days}.
 
 I have a strange feeling that handling fonts in math is rather
 limited, but no knowledge how to fix anything (just remembering that I
 still don't know how to properly switch to bold math with some other
 fancy font except with dirty tricks).
 
 I guess that it should be possible to remember the font before
 switching to math and then switch to that font again, but that's all
 black magic for me. A site on ConTeXt garden solves that for titles in
 such a way that there's an additional command provided which also
 appends bold to all the mathematics in titles, but that's useful for
 titles only.
 
 Mojca
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Re: [NTG-context] small caps italic and font switching inside math

[Taco Hoekwater]

Sorry, messed up something. New version followws:

\newbox\chemlowbox
\def\chemlow#1%
   {\setbox\chemlowbox\hbox{{\switchtobodyfont[small]#1}}}

\def\chemhigh#1%
   {\ifvoid\chemlowbox \high{{\switchtobodyfont[small]#1}}%
\else \lohi[left]{\box\chemlowbox}{{\switchtobodyfont[small]#1}}\fi }

\def\finishchem{\ifvoid\chemlowbox \else \low{\box\chemlowbox}\fi}

\unexpanded\def\molecule%
   {\bgroup
\catcode`\_=\active \uccode`\~=`\_ \uppercase{\let~\chemlow}%
\catcode`\^=\active \uccode`\~=`\^ \uppercase{\let~\chemhigh}%
\dostepwiserecurse {65}{90}{1}
   {\catcode \recurselevel = \active
\uccode`\~=\recurselevel
\uppercase{\edef~{\noexpand\finishchem 
\rawcharacter{\recurselevel%
\catcode`\-=\active \uccode`\~=`\- \uppercase{\def~{--}}%
\domolecule }%

\def\domolecule#1{#1\finishchem\egroup}

\starttext
{\bf A test \variant[Caps] in small caps}

\molecule{HSO_4^{-}}
\molecule{H_2SO_4}

{\bfa A story about \molecule{SF_6}}
{\scx A story about \molecule{sf_6}}
{\bsb A story about \molecule{SF_6}}


\stoptext
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Re: [NTG-context] small caps italic and font switching inside math

[Taco Hoekwater]

Hans Hagen wrote:
 
 i didt follow this thread, so i may be wrong, but doesn't the ppchtex 
 (see manuals) module does that kind of stuff?

It doesn't retain font styles (at least, I could not make it do that)

Taco
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Re: [NTG-context] small caps italic and font switching inside math

[Hans Hagen]

Taco Hoekwater wrote:
 Sorry, messed up something. New version followws:

 \newbox\chemlowbox
 \def\chemlow#1%
{\setbox\chemlowbox\hbox{{\switchtobodyfont[small]#1}}}

 \def\chemhigh#1%
{\ifvoid\chemlowbox \high{{\switchtobodyfont[small]#1}}%
 \else \lohi[left]{\box\chemlowbox}{{\switchtobodyfont[small]#1}}\fi }

 \def\finishchem{\ifvoid\chemlowbox \else \low{\box\chemlowbox}\fi}

 \unexpanded\def\molecule%
{\bgroup
 \catcode`\_=\active \uccode`\~=`\_ \uppercase{\let~\chemlow}%
 \catcode`\^=\active \uccode`\~=`\^ \uppercase{\let~\chemhigh}%
 \dostepwiserecurse {65}{90}{1}
{\catcode \recurselevel = \active
 \uccode`\~=\recurselevel
 \uppercase{\edef~{\noexpand\finishchem 
 \rawcharacter{\recurselevel%
 \catcode`\-=\active \uccode`\~=`\- \uppercase{\def~{--}}%
 \domolecule }%

 \def\domolecule#1{#1\finishchem\egroup}

 \starttext
 {\bf A test \variant[Caps] in small caps}

 \molecule{HSO_4^{-}}
 \molecule{H_2SO_4}

 {\bfa A story about \molecule{SF_6}}
 {\scx A story about \molecule{sf_6}}
 {\bsb A story about \molecule{SF_6}}

   
i didt follow this thread, so i may be wrong, but doesn't the ppchtex 
(see manuals) module does that kind of stuff?

Hans


-- 

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
 tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
 | www.pragma-pod.nl
-

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[NTG-context] small caps italic and font switching inside math

[Mojca Miklavec]

Hello,

I have to tiny questions:

1. How do I get small caps [bold] italic (except with the
\definedfont[ec-lmxxx])?

2. I defined \molecule to be
\def\molecule#1{$\rm#1$},
an usage example would be:
\molecule{HSO_4^{-}}
But how should I modify this it so that it would also work properly
with examples such as:

{\bfa A story about \molecule{SF_6}}
{\scx A story about \molecule{SF_6}}
{\bsb A story about \molecule{SF_6}}

As a workaround I now keep hardcoding \molecule{\bsb SF_6}.

Thanks,
Mojca
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Re: [NTG-context] small caps italic and font switching inside math

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Wed, 28 Jun 2006, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

 Hello,

 I have to tiny questions:

 1. How do I get small caps [bold] italic (except with the
 \definedfont[ec-lmxxx])?

No idea.

 2. I defined \molecule to be
\def\molecule#1{$\rm#1$},

better use {\mathematics{\rm #1}} so that you can also write in 
equations.

 an usage example would be:
\molecule{HSO_4^{-}}
 But how should I modify this it so that it would also work properly
 with examples such as:

 {\bfa A story about \molecule{SF_6}}
 {\scx A story about \molecule{SF_6}}
 {\bsb A story about \molecule{SF_6}}

 As a workaround I now keep hardcoding \molecule{\bsb SF_6}.

Some catcode trickery might work. This is all I could manage.

% \def\molecule#1{\mathematics{ {\rm #1}}}

\bgroup
\catcode`\_=\active
\catcode`\^=\active
\gdef\activatelohi%
   {\catcode`\_=\active
\def_{\low}
\catcode`\^=\active
\def^{\high}}

% This does not work. Why?
% \gdef\molecule#1{\activatelohi #1}

\glet\molecule=\activatelohi
\egroup



\starttext

  {\bfa A story about {\molecule SF_6}}
  {\scx A story about {\molecule SF_6}}
  {\bsb A story about {\molecule SF_6}}

\stoptext

Though this uses a different syntax than what you had.

I have not looked into it, but doesn't one of context's chem module 
fit this need?

Aditya
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Re: [NTG-context] small caps italic and font switching inside math

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

On Jun 28, 2006, at 7:44 PM, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

 Hello,

 I have to tiny questions:

 1. How do I get small caps [bold] italic (except with the
 \definedfont[ec-lmxxx])?

Mojca,

this is a bit more complicated than it sounds. Have a look at Adam's  
MyWay, section 4 explains how to do it.

Best

Thomas
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Re: [NTG-context] small caps italic and font switching inside math

[Taco Hoekwater]

Aditya Mahajan wrote:
 On Wed, 28 Jun 2006, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
 
 
Hello,

I have to tiny questions:

1. How do I get small caps [bold] italic (except with the
\definedfont[ec-lmxxx])?
 
 No idea.

Same for me. I know that theoreticallu something would be possible
using \Var and special typescripts, but I do not know how that is
supposed to be done in actual code.

 
 Some catcode trickery might work. This is all I could manage.

This does not work well, because

HSO\low{4}\high{-}

is not correct.

 % \def\molecule#1{\mathematics{ {\rm #1}}}
 
 \bgroup
 \catcode`\_=\active
 \catcode`\^=\active
 \gdef\activatelohi%
{\catcode`\_=\active
 \def_{\low}
 \catcode`\^=\active
 \def^{\high}}
 
 % This does not work. Why?
 % \gdef\molecule#1{\activatelohi #1}

(For educational purposes only, it cannot be used by
Mojca this way because of the staggered scripts)

Your macro has already parsed the argument. This way

   \def\molecule#1{{\activatelohi \scantokens{#1}}}

it would work (because \scantokens re-evaluates the argument).

And this way it does not need etex, nor the \gdef:

   \def\molecule%
 {\bgroup
  \catcode`\_=\active \uccode`\~=`\_ \uppercase{\let~\low}%
  \catcode`\^=\active \uccode`\~=`\^ \uppercase{\let~\high}%
  \domolecule }%
   \def\domolecule#1{#1\egroup}
 
 I have not looked into it, but doesn't one of context's chem module 
 fit this need?

   \usemodule[chemic]
   \let\molecule\chemical

It only gets the size right, not the boldnes. But it can be argued
that that is the correct behaviour anyways.

Cheers, taco
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Re: [NTG-context] small caps italic and font switching inside math

[Mojca Miklavec]

On 6/28/06, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
 Aditya Mahajan wrote:
  Some catcode trickery might work. This is all I could manage.

 This does not work well, because

 HSO\low{4}\high{-}

 is not correct.

True, but if I'm aware of it, I can use \lohi{4}{$-$} if needed, which
works even better in some cases, see below. I converted the document
from LaTeX and I didn't came to the idea of using low and high
(perhaps just because that's not possible there).

  % \def\molecule#1{\mathematics{ {\rm #1}}}

Thank you for the note. I would never use it inside formulas, but I
would never though about such interference in more complex definitions
either.

  \bgroup
  \catcode`\_=\active
  \catcode`\^=\active
  \gdef\activatelohi%
 {\catcode`\_=\active
  \def_{\low}
  \catcode`\^=\active
  \def^{\high}}
 
  % This does not work. Why?
  % \gdef\molecule#1{\activatelohi #1}

 (For educational purposes only, it cannot be used by
 Mojca this way because of the staggered scripts)

To be honest: in the particular document I never use any stacking (so
this just perfectly suits my needs) except in one particular case: for
typesetting isotopes.

I completely forgot about the \lohi command which I never saw in
practice until now (at least the command itself is documented, but
there's no example and as can be reconstructed from the archives it
seems that Hans added added the option [left] for usage in chemistry).
Thank you, Hans! In the math mode I would have to use phantoms and
such befere being able to achive the same effect, so something like
$\rm _8^16O$ is wrong (ugly) anyway.

Taco and Aditya: thanks a lot for the pointers to \low and \high and
for showing me the trick. I appreciate the elegance of Taco's last
solution, although I would never have come to it (I didn't know that
something like that could work and I'm stil not quite sure what
miracle happens in the last step ;).

 Your macro has already parsed the argument. This way

\def\molecule#1{{\activatelohi \scantokens{#1}}}

 it would work (because \scantokens re-evaluates the argument).

 And this way it does not need etex, nor the \gdef:

\def\molecule%
  {\bgroup
   \catcode`\_=\active \uccode`\~=`\_ \uppercase{\let~\low}%
   \catcode`\^=\active \uccode`\~=`\^ \uppercase{\let~\high}%
   \domolecule }%
\def\domolecule#1{#1\egroup}


  I have not looked into it, but doesn't one of context's chem module
  fit this need?

\usemodule[chemic]
\let\molecule\chemical

 It only gets the size right, not the boldnes. But it can be argued
 that that is the correct behaviour anyways.

Not so long ago you argued that \alpha-sheet, \beta-helix,
\gamma-rays, ... should  be part of text flow (a reason why the el
companion encoding should have it), not a mathematical thing. I have
a lot of simple formulas such as \molecule{SF_6} and they look
a-kind-of-ugly with a tiny script.

You could compare it to {\bf How to loose a guy in $10$ days}.

I have a strange feeling that handling fonts in math is rather
limited, but no knowledge how to fix anything (just remembering that I
still don't know how to properly switch to bold math with some other
fancy font except with dirty tricks).

I guess that it should be possible to remember the font before
switching to math and then switch to that font again, but that's all
black magic for me. A site on ConTeXt garden solves that for titles in
such a way that there's an additional command provided which also
appends bold to all the mathematics in titles, but that's useful for
titles only.

Mojca
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Re: [NTG-context] small caps italic and font switching inside math

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Thu, 29 Jun 2006, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

 On 6/28/06, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
 Aditya Mahajan wrote:
 Some catcode trickery might work. This is all I could manage.

 This does not work well, because

 HSO\low{4}\high{-}

 is not correct.

 True, but if I'm aware of it, I can use \lohi{4}{$-$} if needed, which
 works even better in some cases, see below.

Or use some more catcode trickery to ensure that - is equivalent to 
\mathematics{-} ;)

 I converted the document from LaTeX and I didn't came to the idea of 
 using low and high (perhaps just because that's not possible 
 there).

Latex is not all that bad :) It has \textsuperscript and 
\textsubscript (though most people still write 29$^\text{th}$ June 
rather than 29\textsuperscipt{th} June)

 You could compare it to {\bf How to loose a guy in $10$ days}.

 I have a strange feeling that handling fonts in math is rather
 limited, but no knowledge how to fix anything (just remembering that I
 still don't know how to properly switch to bold math with some other
 fancy font except with dirty tricks).

The wrapping in \hbox is not that bad. A lot of math trickery happens 
inside a \hbox. The example on contextgarden 
(http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Bold_Math) is not too different from 
how bm.sty implements bold symbols in latex (which is the best bold 
math implementation in latex, AIUI). However, the \boldmath definition 
on contextgarden lacks

1. Use of pmb (poor man's bold) when a true bold character is not 
present. \boldsymbol{\sum} does not work.

2. Does not take care of the math spacing

\formula{ a \boldsymbol{=} a } does not look correct.

3. Does not take care of delimiters

\formula { \boldsymbol{\left(}\frac 1n\right)} does not work.

4. bm.sty goes into some trouble to define bold accents. So 
\bm{\hat}{a} produces a bold accent over a non-bold a. (I can not 
understand why would someone ever use that).

Hans, why is [boldmath] not defined by default in all the typescripts?


 I guess that it should be possible to remember the font before
 switching to math and then switch to that font again, but that's all
 black magic for me. A site on ConTeXt garden solves that for titles in
 such a way that there's an additional command provided which also
 appends bold to all the mathematics in titles, but that's useful for
 titles only.

It can be used everywhere. For example

\def\myrmbf{\boldmath\rm\bf}

{\myrmbf How to loose a guy in $10$ days}

It will be nice if one could write

\def\mybf{\boldmath\previousfont\bf}

Maybe what is needed is a \beforemathswitch token set. Then one could 
do

\appendtoks \boldmath to \beforemathswitch



Aditya
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Re: [NTG-context] small caps

[Thomas A . Schmitz]

On Mar 2, 2005, at 10:59 AM, Adam Lindsay wrote:
Hold on one minute... we're talking about encodings for alternate 
glyphs,
right? That's orthogonal to what Unicode is about. 'a' and 'Asmall'
pretty much take up the same unicode slot. Only 'a' appears in the
.cmap.xml file.

No, of course you're right. I thought that they were given a value in 
the FFxx range, but that's not right; they don't appear in the cmap, 
only in the afm. So the only thing I can think of: there are only so 
many ways to refer to small caps, Xsmall or X.small or X_small or even 
X-small. We could provide alternatives for that in perl, making 
additions as we go. It's a brute-force attack, kind of aiming with a 
machine gun, but since fonts are such moving targets...

Now that would be a useful thing, regardless. I don't know, but I'll 
have
a look. I suspect we'll have to create one ourselves. An idle thought
(with the corresponding devilishness) occurs to me: all that 
information
is in ConTeXt already. Hmm...

What form would be the best? Some simple XML? A perl-friendly list?
For the time being, I'm thinking of a very simple list that could just 
serve as a pattern for arranging the lines I get from processing the 
cmap.xml. I'm just thinking, not writing code yet...

Best
Thomas
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Re: [NTG-context] small caps

[Adam Lindsay]

Hans Hagen said this at Wed, 2 Mar 2005 11:54:35 +0100:

about code ... wybo dekker has cleaned up the texfont code, so that will
be the 
starting point for extensions

Wow. Thanks, Wybo! 
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Re: [NTG-context] small caps

[Hans Hagen]

Thomas A.Schmitz wrote:
For the time being, I'm thinking of a very simple list that could just 
serve as a pattern for arranging the lines I get from processing the 
cmap.xml. I'm just thinking, not writing code yet...
about code ... wybo dekker has cleaned up the texfont code, so that will be the 
starting point for extensions

Hans
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Re: [NTG-context] small caps

[Thomas A . Schmitz]

Adam, I feel like a complete idiot now. I had been so proud about this 
idea, but after re-reading you MyWay about OpenType, I see that I had 
been reinventing the wheel: this is exactly the solution you had been 
suggesting almost two years ago. Thanks for being generous about 
this...

However, your post made me think: I know nothing about XSLT, but enough 
perl to shoot myself in the foot. I guess if I had a version of 
texnansi.enc with the unicode values in addition to the names, that 
would be a good starting point. I was thinking of  this route:
1. use ftxdumperfuser to produce cmap.xml,
2. use perl to reduce it to two values: glyphName % UNICODE_VALUE
3. use perl to extract the lines corresponding to a given encoding and 
put them in the right order.

Sounds feasible? Do you know where I could get such a unicode-aware 
version of texnansi.enc?

Best
Thomas
On Feb 27, 2005, at 10:39 AM, Adam Lindsay wrote:
Indeed, that's one of the reasons why I came up with the unicode
(symbol[1]) scripts... there are common utilities (ttx and Apple's 
ftx
suite) that work well at associating canonical characters with glyph
names specific to a font.

I'm sure some enterprising XSLT hacker could take my scripts as a
starting point and make them work with specific TeXy encodings, not 
just
individual Unicode vectors.
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Re: [NTG-context] small caps

[h h extern]

Adam Lindsay wrote:
This is good stuff. I've tried to advocate a naming convention that would
be appropriate to this. I would suggest calling this texnansi-osfsc.enc,
as baseencoding-variant.enc. This is so a modified encoding can
masquerade as the base encoding within ConTeXt.
i'll add the encoding to the distribution (i just made the formatted file with 
the info sent) [of course users will need to generate the tfm files themselves]

once we have made the switch from map files to inline map code, we can apply 
different encodings more easily at the typescript level (no more need for map files)

another thing coming is that pdftex will provide primitives to set those 
encodings independently of other characteristics (hartmut is working on this);

Hans
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[NTG-context] small caps

[Thomas A . Schmitz]

In the last days, I played around with some truetype fonts, preparing 
them for use with ConTeXt by creating tfms via the texnansi encoding. 
Some of these truetypes have expert features embedded into their 
glyphs. texnansi automatically takes care of integrating the ff, 
ffi and ffl ligatures. In order to extract small caps and old-style 
numerals, I created a modified texnansi encoding. Here it comes:

/TeXnANSISCEncoding [
/.notdef % 0
/Euro % /Uni20AC 1
/.notdef % 2
/.notdef % 3
/fraction % 4
/dotaccent %5
/hungarumlaut % 6
/ogonek %   7
/fl %   8
/.notdef % /fraction %  9   not used (see 4), backward compatability only
/cwm%   10  not used, except boundary char internally maybe
/ff%11
/fi%12
/.notdef % /fl% 13  not used (see 8), backward compatability only
/ffi   %14
/ffl   %15
/dotlessi % 16
/dotlessj % 17
/grave %18
/acute %19
/caron %20
/breve %21
/macron %   22
/ring  %23
/cedilla %  24
/germandbls %   25
/AEsmall%   26
/OEsmall%   27
/Oslashsmall %  28
/AE%29
/OE%30
/Oslash %   31
/space %32  % /suppress in TeX text
/exclam %   33
/quotedbl % 34  % /quotedblright in TeX text
/numbersign %   35
/dollar %   36
/percent %  37
/ampersand %38
/quoteright %   39  % /quotesingle in ANSI
/parenleft %40
/parenright %   41
/asterisk % 42
/plus  %43
/comma %44
/hyphen %   45
/period %   46
/slash %47
/zerooldstyle  %48
/oneoldstyle   %49
/twooldstyle   %50
/threeoldstyle %51
/fouroldstyle  %52
/fiveoldstyle  %53
/sixoldstyle   %54
/sevenoldstyle %55
/eightoldstyle %56
/nineoldstyle  %57
/colon %58
/semicolon %59
/less  %60  % /exclamdown in Tex text
/equal %61
/greater %  62  % /questiondown in TeX text
/question % 63
/at %   64
/A %65
/B %66
/C %67
/D %68
/E %69
/F %70
/G %71
/H %72
/I %73
/J %74
/K %75
/L %76
/M %77
/N %78
/O %79
/P %80
/Q %81
/R %82
/S %83
/T %84
/U %85
/V %86
/W %87
/X %88
/Y %89
/Z %90
/bracketleft %  91
/backslash %92  % /quotedblleft in TeX text
/bracketright % 93
/circumflex %   94  % /asciicircum in ASCII
/underscore %   95  % /dotaccent in TeX text
/quoteleft %96  % /grave accent in ANSI
/Asmall %   97
/Bsmall %   98
/Csmall %   99
/Dsmall %   100
/Esmall %   101
/Fsmall %   102
/Gsmall %   103
/Hsmall %   104
/Ismall %   105
/Jsmall %   106
/Ksmall %   107
/Lsmall %   108
/Msmall %   109
/Nsmall %   110
/Osmall %   111
/Psmall %   112
/Qsmall %   113
/Rsmall %   114
/Ssmall %   115
/Tsmall %   116
/Usmall %   117
/Vsmall %   118
/Wsmall %   119
/Xsmall %   120
/Ysmall %   121
/Zsmall %   122
/braceleft %123 % /endash in TeX text
/bar   %124 % /emdash in TeX test
/braceright %   125 % /hungarumlaut in TeX text
/tilde %126 % /asciitilde in ASCII
/dieresis % 127 not used (see 168), use higher up instead
/Lslash %   128 this position is unfortunate, but now too late to fix
/quotesingle %  129
/quotesinglbase %   130
/florin %   131
/quotedblbase % 132
/ellipsis % 133
/dagger %   134
/daggerdbl %135
/circumflex %   136
/perthousand %  137
/Scaron %   138
/guilsinglleft %139
/OE%140
/Zcaron %   141
/asciicircum %  142
/minus %143
/lslash %   144
/quoteleft %145
/quoteright %   146
/quotedblleft % 147
/quotedblright %148
/bullet %   149
/endash %   150
/emdash %   151
/tilde %152
/trademark %153
/scaron %   154
/guilsinglright %   155
/oe%156
/zcaron %   157
/asciitilde %   158
/Ydieresis %159
/nbspace %  160 % /space (no break space)
/exclamdown %   161
/cent  %162
/sterling % 163
/currency % 164
/yen   %165
/brokenbar %166
/section %  167
/dieresis % 168
/copyright %169
/ordfeminine %  170
/guillemotleft %171
/logicalnot %   172
/sfthyphen %173 % /hyphen (hanging hyphen)
/registered %   174
/macron %   175
/degree %   176
/plusminus %177
/twosuperior %  178
/threesuperior %179
/acute %180
/mu%181
/paragraph %182
/periodcentered %   183
/cedilla %  184
/onesuperior %  185
/ordmasculine % 186
/guillemotright %   187
/onequarter %   188
/onehalf %  189
/threequarters %190
/questiondown % 191
/Agrave %   192
/Aacute %   193
/Acircumflex %  194
/Atilde %   195
/Adieresis %196
/Aring %197
/AE%198
/Ccedilla % 199
/Egrave %   200
/Eacute %   

Re: [NTG-context] small caps

[Adam Lindsay]

Thomas A.Schmitz said this at Sat, 26 Feb 2005 10:13:00 +0100:

In the last days, I played around with some truetype fonts, preparing 
them for use with ConTeXt by creating tfms via the texnansi encoding. 

Hello (again) Thomas,

This is good stuff. I've tried to advocate a naming convention that would
be appropriate to this. I would suggest calling this texnansi-osfsc.enc,
as baseencoding-variant.enc. This is so a modified encoding can
masquerade as the base encoding within ConTeXt.

Given this encoding with my suggested name, you could therefore run
texfont as following:
 texfont --encoding=texnansi --variant=osfsc   --[other options]

Variants that select rarer features that Old Style Figures and Small Caps
may need to be given font-specific names, as rare glyph names tend to
vary wildly between fonts.

Cheers,
adam
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Re: [NTG-context] small caps

[Thomas A . Schmitz]

This is good stuff. I've tried to advocate a naming convention that 
would
be appropriate to this. I would suggest calling this 
texnansi-osfsc.enc,
as baseencoding-variant.enc. This is so a modified encoding can
masquerade as the base encoding within ConTeXt.

Given this encoding with my suggested name, you could therefore run
texfont as following:
 texfont --encoding=texnansi --variant=osfsc   --[other options]
That is by far the most elegant solution indeed! I have renamed my 
encoding file.

Variants that select rarer features that Old Style Figures and Small 
Caps
may need to be given font-specific names, as rare glyph names tend to
vary wildly between fonts.

Sadly, you are absolutely right about this. And it's not only rare 
glyphs that get wildly different names. There was some rumor on the TeX 
on OS X list that people couldn't get the beautiful HoeflerText font to 
work with TeX; it turned out that this was true for newer versions of 
the font only. I looked into it, and it turns out that Apple (?) has 
given new names even to quite normal characters - eacute becomes 
e_acute etc. So if you want to produce a tfm for that font, you have to 
invent a specific encoding vector. Once you know how this works, it's 
easy enough, but really annoying.

So, the variant scheme in texfont is at least a convenient way to 
cope with this mess.

Best
Thomas
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