Re: [NTG-context] mkiv math delimiters and |

2009-11-15 Thread Hans Hagen

Aditya Mahajan wrote:

On Sun, 15 Nov 2009, Taco Hoekwater wrote:


Aditya Mahajan wrote:


The attached patch gives a working solution for lmmath but does not 
work with cambria. I don't know if the latter is a fault of context 
mkiv or luatex.


Does not work as in: no error, but no delimiter either?


No scaled delimiter. There is no difference between \left and .


That would
be a side-effect of Cambria not having defined successors for LESS THAN.


I personally do not like this behavior of plain tex, with \left being 
same as \left\langle. In the long run, all such delimiters should be 
defined similar to mathml fences,


\definemathfence[average][left=\langle, right=\rangle, scale=auto|none]

etc. Should we be really supporting this in MKIV?


i don't know.

what i observe is that when we use \left\langle always (which is what we 
do in mathml in order to play safe) the first level symbol is always a 
bit bigger than just an 


maybe it's just a matter of thresholds or prepending a smaller  to the 
list


Hans


-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
 tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
 | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] mkiv math delimiters and |

2009-11-15 Thread Hans Hagen

Taco Hoekwater wrote:

Aditya Mahajan wrote:
I personally do not like this behavior of plain tex, with \left being 
same as \left\langle. In the long run, all such delimiters should be 
defined similar to mathml fences,


\definemathfence[average][left=\langle, right=\rangle, scale=auto|none]

etc. Should we be really supporting this in MKIV?


That is a question for Mojca and Hans, I think. FWIW, I do not like it
that much either, as there *is* a proper character for this nowadays.


indeed we should stick to what unicode provides; if some symbols is 
missing in lm or tx/pr ... we could fake it as i don't like returning to 
the times where each exception became a command with per font a 
different one


Hans

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
 tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
 | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] mkiv math delimiters and |

2009-11-14 Thread Aditya Mahajan
On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 4:03 AM, Mojca Miklavec 
mojca.miklavec.li...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hello,

 I have tried to compile an old document (written in mkii times). Among
 other problems that I yet need to isolate, the following minimal
 example doesn't want to compile: $\bigl| x \bigr$ since | aren't
 recognized as candidates for delimiters. There is a workaround of
 course (using \langle, \rangle, ... instead of ), but the three
 characters are just way too handy to use.


| works fine here.  and  don't. I did not know that \left is equivalent
to \left\langle even in plain tex.

I suppose that the behaviour in mkii comes from these lines:

 \definemathcharacter []   [nothing] [sy] [68] [ex] [0A]
 \definemathcharacter []   [nothing] [sy] [69] [ex] [0B]


I guess mkii is imitating plain tex here. (Though, I could not find how this
is happening in plain tex)


 But I'm not sure where mkiv could be changed.


I don't know how to do this.  should behave like a rel without a \left, and
like a delimited with \left.


 I have tried to use
  adobename=greater,
  ...
  mathspec={
   { class=binary, name=gt },
   { class=close, name=rbrace },
  },
 but without any success.


rbrace!!. Probabably you want rangle. You can change the order of the two,
and then  will map to rangle, but you will have to use \gt to get the
relation symbol.

Aditya
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] mkiv math delimiters and |

2009-11-14 Thread Taco Hoekwater

Aditya Mahajan wrote:

On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 4:03 AM, Mojca Miklavec 
mojca.miklavec.li...@gmail.com wrote:


Hello,

I have tried to compile an old document (written in mkii times). Among
other problems that I yet need to isolate, the following minimal
example doesn't want to compile: $\bigl| x \bigr$ since | aren't
recognized as candidates for delimiters. There is a workaround of
course (using \langle, \rangle, ... instead of ), but the three
characters are just way too handy to use.



| works fine here.  and  don't. I did not know that \left is equivalent
to \left\langle even in plain tex.

I suppose that the behaviour in mkii comes from these lines:

\definemathcharacter []   [nothing] [sy] [68] [ex] [0A]
\definemathcharacter []   [nothing] [sy] [69] [ex] [0B]



I guess mkii is imitating plain tex here. (Though, I could not find how this
is happening in plain tex)


From plain.tex:

  \mathcode`\=313C
  \delcode`\=26830A

The first (\mathcode) controls standalone use, the second (\delcode)
use as a delimiter. Both can be set at the same time, and that second
one got lost in the conversion, probably because it has a dedicated
slot in Unicode (U+0x27E8, MATHEMATICAL LEFT ANGLE BRACKET).

Perhaps this can be done with the mathspec field in char-def.lua, but
I do not know how?

Best wishes,
Taco





___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] mkiv math delimiters and |

2009-11-14 Thread Aditya Mahajan

On Sun, 15 Nov 2009, Taco Hoekwater wrote:


Aditya Mahajan wrote:

On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 4:03 AM, Mojca Miklavec 
mojca.miklavec.li...@gmail.com wrote:


Hello,

I have tried to compile an old document (written in mkii times). Among
other problems that I yet need to isolate, the following minimal
example doesn't want to compile: $\bigl| x \bigr$ since | aren't
recognized as candidates for delimiters. There is a workaround of
course (using \langle, \rangle, ... instead of ), but the three
characters are just way too handy to use.



| works fine here.  and  don't. I did not know that \left is equivalent
to \left\langle even in plain tex.

I suppose that the behaviour in mkii comes from these lines:

\definemathcharacter []   [nothing] [sy] [68] [ex] [0A]
\definemathcharacter []   [nothing] [sy] [69] [ex] [0B]



I guess mkii is imitating plain tex here. (Though, I could not find how 
this

is happening in plain tex)


From plain.tex:

 \mathcode`\=313C
 \delcode`\=26830A

The first (\mathcode) controls standalone use, the second (\delcode)
use as a delimiter. Both can be set at the same time, and that second
one got lost in the conversion, probably because it has a dedicated
slot in Unicode (U+0x27E8, MATHEMATICAL LEFT ANGLE BRACKET).

Perhaps this can be done with the mathspec field in char-def.lua, but
I do not know how?


The attached patch gives a working solution for lmmath but does not work 
with cambria. I don't know if the latter is a fault of context mkiv or 
luatex.


In any case,  this is a kludge as we have to define a dummy name. It will 
be better if we could just say name=false. Currently, if I use name=false, 
\left gives an error.


Aditya
diff --git a/char-def.lua b/char-def.lua
index 3aec401..990bfd2 100644
--- a/char-def.lua
+++ b/char-def.lua
@@ -544,8 +544,10 @@ characters.data={
   description=LESS-THAN SIGN,
   direction=on,
   linebreak=al,
-  mathclass=binary,
-  mathname=lt,
+  mathspec={
+{ name=lt, class=binary } ,
+{ name=ltdelim, class=delimiter },
+  },
   mirror=0x003E,
   unicodeslot=0x003C,
  },
@@ -568,8 +570,10 @@ characters.data={
   description=GREATER-THAN SIGN,
   direction=on,
   linebreak=al,
-  mathclass=binary,
-  mathname=gt,
+  mathspec={
+{ name=gt, class=binary } ,
+{ name=gtdelim, class=delimiter },
+  },
   mirror=0x003C,
   unicodeslot=0x003E,
  },
diff --git a/math-vfu.lua b/math-vfu.lua
index 0300bb0..1543833 100644
--- a/math-vfu.lua
+++ b/math-vfu.lua
@@ -566,6 +566,8 @@ fonts.enc.math[large-to-small] = {
 [0x02309] = 0x07, -- rceil
 [0x0007B] = 0x08, -- {
 [0x0007D] = 0x09, -- }
+[0x0003C] = 0x0A, -- 
+[0x0003E] = 0x0B, -- 
 [0x027E8] = 0x0A, -- 
 [0x027E9] = 0x0B, -- 
 [0x0007C] = 0x0C, -- |
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] mkiv math delimiters and |

2009-11-14 Thread Taco Hoekwater

Aditya Mahajan wrote:


The attached patch gives a working solution for lmmath but does not work 
with cambria. I don't know if the latter is a fault of context mkiv or 
luatex.


Does not work as in: no error, but no delimiter either? That would
be a side-effect of Cambria not having defined successors for LESS THAN.

Best wishes,
Taco

___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] mkiv math delimiters and |

2009-11-14 Thread Aditya Mahajan

On Sun, 15 Nov 2009, Taco Hoekwater wrote:


Aditya Mahajan wrote:


The attached patch gives a working solution for lmmath but does not work 
with cambria. I don't know if the latter is a fault of context mkiv or 
luatex.


Does not work as in: no error, but no delimiter either?


No scaled delimiter. There is no difference between \left and .


That would
be a side-effect of Cambria not having defined successors for LESS THAN.


I personally do not like this behavior of plain tex, with \left being 
same as \left\langle. In the long run, all such delimiters should be 
defined similar to mathml fences,


\definemathfence[average][left=\langle, right=\rangle, scale=auto|none]

etc. Should we be really supporting this in MKIV?

Aditya
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


Re: [NTG-context] mkiv math delimiters and |

2009-11-14 Thread Taco Hoekwater

Aditya Mahajan wrote:
I personally do not like this behavior of plain tex, with \left being 
same as \left\langle. In the long run, all such delimiters should be 
defined similar to mathml fences,


\definemathfence[average][left=\langle, right=\rangle, scale=auto|none]

etc. Should we be really supporting this in MKIV?


That is a question for Mojca and Hans, I think. FWIW, I do not like it
that much either, as there *is* a proper character for this nowadays.

Best wishes,
Taco
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___


[NTG-context] mkiv math delimiters and |

2009-11-13 Thread Mojca Miklavec
Hello,

I have tried to compile an old document (written in mkii times). Among
other problems that I yet need to isolate, the following minimal
example doesn't want to compile: $\bigl| x \bigr$ since | aren't
recognized as candidates for delimiters. There is a workaround of
course (using \langle, \rangle, ... instead of ), but the three
characters are just way too handy to use.

I suppose that the behaviour in mkii comes from these lines:

\definemathcharacter []   [nothing] [sy] [68] [ex] [0A]
\definemathcharacter []   [nothing] [sy] [69] [ex] [0B]

But I'm not sure where mkiv could be changed.

I have tried to use
  adobename=greater,
  ...
  mathspec={
   { class=binary, name=gt },
   { class=close, name=rbrace },
  },
but without any success.

Mojca
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___