[NTG-context] Re: streams reversed?
On 9/16/2023 12:57 AM, jbf wrote: Thanks Idris. See my response to Bruce, and indeed his response to mine earlier. I'll have to leave it at that for now. Too many other matters pressing. Julian This is why mechanism like these never come to completion: it takes times, experimenting, documenting, basically a cycle that can take a while. Quite often it stops when some (intermediate) goal is reached and no more time is available. That lowers the priority. Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : https://contextgarden.net ___
[NTG-context] Re: streams reversed?
Thanks Idris.
See my response to Bruce, and indeed his response to mine earlier. I'll
have to leave it at that for now. Too many other matters pressing.
Julian
On 15/9/23 22:43, Hamid,Idris wrote:
Hi Julian,
Am also interested in this matter (and played a bit with the code you
provided); one suspects that others are as well.
Based on past experience, can affirm that it's sometimes
time-consuming, even a pain, to produce an MWE to reproduce the
relevant behavior. But it would be well worth the effort for the sake
of improving the streams mechanism and clarifying its ultimate
limitations.
Even if the final MWE seems too bulky, you could post cloud links to
the source and pdf files. Thank you for your contribution.
Best wishes
Idris
-- Original Message --
From "jbf"
To "Bruce Horrocks" ; "mailing list for ConTeXt
users"
Date 9/14/2023 4:04:27 PM
Subject [NTG-context] Re: streams reversed?
** Caution: EXTERNAL Sender **
Bruce, that was kind of you to reply. I think we both know that the
streams mechanism, while 'workable' for the most part, is still in need
of refinement.
It is quite possible that what is causing my problem has less to do with
'streams' per se, and more to do with the use of this mechanism in a
'real book' using frontmatter, bodymatter etc. etc.
Since it would be too long and complicated an MWE to place here in the
list to demonstrate my problem, I will send you the file separately so
you can see the issue: effectively, the streams have worked for
frontmatter (Foreword), but when I get to Chapter 1 in bodymatter, they
are reversed. You will see that. I can't work out why, but you might be
able to see what is causing that.
And of course, I have two other problems to work out before I could use
this in a real production scenario: there is the one you have already
alluded to of extra pages occasionally beforehand (hopefully easily
solvable) but I can see another problem when the text is a lengthy
one... and this is the result of synchronization: when one language (vi)
takes up more space than the other (en), we get an awkward break at the
end of the chapter in en, so that the last line can 'catch up' with the
last paragraph (in vi). Maybe this one will be harder to solve!
Julian
On 14/9/23 20:14, Bruce Horrocks wrote:
On 13 Sep 2023, at 07:47, jbf wrote:
When I come to bodymatter and Chapter 1, again it works, except
that the positions of the languages are reversed, so I end up with
vi on the left and en on the right. By Chapter 2 we are back to the
correct position once more (en left and vi right).
I want to know why this is happening, and if I can prevent it
happening.
I've modified the sample code you got from Wolfgang to include
chapter headings and it all looks fine to me[1] - the red text is
all on the right hand side and the greeen text is all on the left.
If this doesn't help and you still have problems then you'll need to
post a sample that actually shows the problem. I'm using ConTeXt
ver: 2023.09.04 19:15.
\starttext
\startoutputstream[one]
\startcolor[red]
\dorecurse{5}{\chapter{Stream One}
\dorecurse{10}{\input knuth\par}
}
\stopcolor
\stopoutputstream
\startoutputstream[two]
\startcolor[green]
\dorecurse{5}{\chapter{Stream Two}
\dorecurse{10}{\input zapf\par}
}
\stopcolor
\stopoutputstream
\synchronizestreams[one,two]
\setbox\scratchboxone\outputstreambox[one]
\setbox\scratchboxtwo\outputstreambox[two]
\doloop
{\ifvoid\scratchboxone
\exitloop
\else
\setbox\scratchboxfour\vsplit\scratchboxone to \textheight
\vbox to \vsize{\box\scratchboxfour\vss}%
\setbox\scratchboxfive\vsplit\scratchboxtwo to \textheight
\vbox to \vsize{\box\scratchboxfive\vss}%
\fi}
\stoptext
[1] Apart from unnecessary blank pages at the beginning but that's a
different problem so I'm not addressing that for now.
—
Bruce Horrocks
--
Idris Samawi Hamid, Professor
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the
Wiki!
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[NTG-context] Re: streams reversed?
My feeling at the moment is that this might be about the only way one could go ahead in a production situation, and yes, I am familiar with PDF tools that can achieve this, though it is effectively stepping aside from ConTeXt and working with PDF. For that matter I can easily go ahead with a commercial program that solves all the problems thus far indicated. I think it is true to say that at the moment, the streams mechanism is far too klunky to be able to use it extensively. For a handful of pages (and especially if the two streams re absolutely equal in length) it is workable. Beyond that, at least for the moment, it is not, and I am afraid I do not have the luxury of time to try to refine it. Your efforts, Bruce, are hugely appreciated, but also confirm the difficulties faced thus far. Julian On 15/9/23 22:44, Bruce Horrocks wrote: An alternate option, might be to consider producing the body matter as two 'independent' books, one with the pages on the left and page numbered 1,3,5 and the other numbered 2,4,6 and then merge them as PDF pages into the final book. Then merge frontmatter and back matter. If you are reasonably familiar with PDF splitting / joing tools then this might be the simplest solution. ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : https://contextgarden.net ___
[NTG-context] Re: streams reversed?
Hi Julian,
Am also interested in this matter (and played a bit with the code you
provided); one suspects that others are as well.
Based on past experience, can affirm that it's sometimes time-consuming, even a
pain, to produce an MWE to reproduce the relevant behavior. But it would be
well worth the effort for the sake of improving the streams mechanism and
clarifying its ultimate limitations.
Even if the final MWE seems too bulky, you could post cloud links to the source
and pdf files. Thank you for your contribution.
Best wishes
Idris
-- Original Message --
From "jbf" mailto:roma83...@gmail.com>>
To "Bruce Horrocks" mailto:n...@scorecrow.com>>; "mailing
list for ConTeXt users" mailto:ntg-context@ntg.nl>>
Date 9/14/2023 4:04:27 PM
Subject [NTG-context] Re: streams reversed?
** Caution: EXTERNAL Sender **
Bruce, that was kind of you to reply. I think we both know that the
streams mechanism, while 'workable' for the most part, is still in need
of refinement.
It is quite possible that what is causing my problem has less to do with
'streams' per se, and more to do with the use of this mechanism in a
'real book' using frontmatter, bodymatter etc. etc.
Since it would be too long and complicated an MWE to place here in the
list to demonstrate my problem, I will send you the file separately so
you can see the issue: effectively, the streams have worked for
frontmatter (Foreword), but when I get to Chapter 1 in bodymatter, they
are reversed. You will see that. I can't work out why, but you might be
able to see what is causing that.
And of course, I have two other problems to work out before I could use
this in a real production scenario: there is the one you have already
alluded to of extra pages occasionally beforehand (hopefully easily
solvable) but I can see another problem when the text is a lengthy
one... and this is the result of synchronization: when one language (vi)
takes up more space than the other (en), we get an awkward break at the
end of the chapter in en, so that the last line can 'catch up' with the
last paragraph (in vi). Maybe this one will be harder to solve!
Julian
On 14/9/23 20:14, Bruce Horrocks wrote:
On 13 Sep 2023, at 07:47, jbf mailto:roma83...@gmail.com>>
wrote:
When I come to bodymatter and Chapter 1, again it works, except that the
positions of the languages are reversed, so I end up with vi on the left and en
on the right. By Chapter 2 we are back to the correct position once more (en
left and vi right).
I want to know why this is happening, and if I can prevent it happening.
I've modified the sample code you got from Wolfgang to include chapter headings
and it all looks fine to me[1] - the red text is all on the right hand side and
the greeen text is all on the left. If this doesn't help and you still have
problems then you'll need to post a sample that actually shows the problem. I'm
using ConTeXt ver: 2023.09.04 19:15.
\starttext
\startoutputstream[one]
\startcolor[red]
\dorecurse{5}{\chapter{Stream One}
\dorecurse{10}{\input knuth\par}
}
\stopcolor
\stopoutputstream
\startoutputstream[two]
\startcolor[green]
\dorecurse{5}{\chapter{Stream Two}
\dorecurse{10}{\input zapf\par}
}
\stopcolor
\stopoutputstream
\synchronizestreams[one,two]
\setbox\scratchboxone\outputstreambox[one]
\setbox\scratchboxtwo\outputstreambox[two]
\doloop
{\ifvoid\scratchboxone
\exitloop
\else
\setbox\scratchboxfour\vsplit\scratchboxone to \textheight
\vbox to \vsize{\box\scratchboxfour\vss}%
\setbox\scratchboxfive\vsplit\scratchboxtwo to \textheight
\vbox to \vsize{\box\scratchboxfive\vss}%
\fi}
\stoptext
[1] Apart from unnecessary blank pages at the beginning but that's a different
problem so I'm not addressing that for now.
—
Bruce Horrocks
--
Idris Samawi Hamid, Professor
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the
Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : https://contextgarden.net
___
[NTG-context] Re: streams reversed?
Bruce, that was kind of you to reply. I think we both know that the
streams mechanism, while 'workable' for the most part, is still in need
of refinement.
It is quite possible that what is causing my problem has less to do with
'streams' per se, and more to do with the use of this mechanism in a
'real book' using frontmatter, bodymatter etc. etc.
Since it would be too long and complicated an MWE to place here in the
list to demonstrate my problem, I will send you the file separately so
you can see the issue: effectively, the streams have worked for
frontmatter (Foreword), but when I get to Chapter 1 in bodymatter, they
are reversed. You will see that. I can't work out why, but you might be
able to see what is causing that.
And of course, I have two other problems to work out before I could use
this in a real production scenario: there is the one you have already
alluded to of extra pages occasionally beforehand (hopefully easily
solvable) but I can see another problem when the text is a lengthy
one... and this is the result of synchronization: when one language (vi)
takes up more space than the other (en), we get an awkward break at the
end of the chapter in en, so that the last line can 'catch up' with the
last paragraph (in vi). Maybe this one will be harder to solve!
Julian
On 14/9/23 20:14, Bruce Horrocks wrote:
On 13 Sep 2023, at 07:47, jbf wrote:
When I come to bodymatter and Chapter 1, again it works, except that the
positions of the languages are reversed, so I end up with vi on the left and en
on the right. By Chapter 2 we are back to the correct position once more (en
left and vi right).
I want to know why this is happening, and if I can prevent it happening.
I've modified the sample code you got from Wolfgang to include chapter headings
and it all looks fine to me[1] - the red text is all on the right hand side and
the greeen text is all on the left. If this doesn't help and you still have
problems then you'll need to post a sample that actually shows the problem. I'm
using ConTeXt ver: 2023.09.04 19:15.
\starttext
\startoutputstream[one]
\startcolor[red]
\dorecurse{5}{\chapter{Stream One}
\dorecurse{10}{\input knuth\par}
}
\stopcolor
\stopoutputstream
\startoutputstream[two]
\startcolor[green]
\dorecurse{5}{\chapter{Stream Two}
\dorecurse{10}{\input zapf\par}
}
\stopcolor
\stopoutputstream
\synchronizestreams[one,two]
\setbox\scratchboxone\outputstreambox[one]
\setbox\scratchboxtwo\outputstreambox[two]
\doloop
{\ifvoid\scratchboxone
\exitloop
\else
\setbox\scratchboxfour\vsplit\scratchboxone to \textheight
\vbox to \vsize{\box\scratchboxfour\vss}%
\setbox\scratchboxfive\vsplit\scratchboxtwo to \textheight
\vbox to \vsize{\box\scratchboxfive\vss}%
\fi}
\stoptext
[1] Apart from unnecessary blank pages at the beginning but that's a different
problem so I'm not addressing that for now.
—
Bruce Horrocks
Hampshire, UK
___
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Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : https://contextgarden.net
___
___
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Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : https://contextgarden.net
___
[NTG-context] Re: streams reversed?
On 13 Sep 2023, at 07:47, jbf wrote:
>
> When I come to bodymatter and Chapter 1, again it works, except that the
> positions of the languages are reversed, so I end up with vi on the left and
> en on the right. By Chapter 2 we are back to the correct position once more
> (en left and vi right).
> I want to know why this is happening, and if I can prevent it happening.
I've modified the sample code you got from Wolfgang to include chapter headings
and it all looks fine to me[1] - the red text is all on the right hand side and
the greeen text is all on the left. If this doesn't help and you still have
problems then you'll need to post a sample that actually shows the problem. I'm
using ConTeXt ver: 2023.09.04 19:15.
\starttext
\startoutputstream[one]
\startcolor[red]
\dorecurse{5}{\chapter{Stream One}
\dorecurse{10}{\input knuth\par}
}
\stopcolor
\stopoutputstream
\startoutputstream[two]
\startcolor[green]
\dorecurse{5}{\chapter{Stream Two}
\dorecurse{10}{\input zapf\par}
}
\stopcolor
\stopoutputstream
\synchronizestreams[one,two]
\setbox\scratchboxone\outputstreambox[one]
\setbox\scratchboxtwo\outputstreambox[two]
\doloop
{\ifvoid\scratchboxone
\exitloop
\else
\setbox\scratchboxfour\vsplit\scratchboxone to \textheight
\vbox to \vsize{\box\scratchboxfour\vss}%
\setbox\scratchboxfive\vsplit\scratchboxtwo to \textheight
\vbox to \vsize{\box\scratchboxfive\vss}%
\fi}
\stoptext
[1] Apart from unnecessary blank pages at the beginning but that's a different
problem so I'm not addressing that for now.
—
Bruce Horrocks
Hampshire, UK
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the
Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : https://contextgarden.net
___
