Re: [NTG-context] ConTeXt output commercial printing houses: Thanks!

2004-07-27 Thread Matt Gushee
Thanks for all the responses. I got some very useful information here.

I do have a couple of quick follow-up questions.

On Sat, Jul 24, 2004 at 03:21:39PM -0500, Bill McClain wrote:
 
 Different shops might have different requirements, but Bookmobile simply
 requires an exact image of the book, page size defined to be the paper
 size. Easy. 

You're referring to just the interior, right? I would think that covers
have to have a bit of bleed, no?

 This has all been for digital printing and perfect-bound paperbacks.

Pretty much what I'm doing for now. As a matter of fact, partly inspired
by your example, I'm attempting something rather similar to your
publishing biz--though not in direct competition, I hope and believe.


On Sun, Jul 25, 2004 at 12:01:03PM +0200, Mats Broberg wrote:
 
 Being a newbie when it comes to ConTeXt, but having worked in the
 commercial printing busines for a decade, I would say that the majority
 of printers actually prefer PDF files rather than Quark, InDesign or
 Pagemaker files. At least that is the case in Europe, and it would
 suprise me if it is not the same situation in USA.

Well, yes. Many printers here do prefer PDF. However, there's a small
problem in some cases--I know this is true for Kinko's, and was
wondering if it's true for regular printers, too: they think that PDF
means Adobe PDF--i.e. they believe that Adobe software is *the* way to
produce PDF, and are mostly unaware that there is such a thing as a PDF
standard. Now, I don't fully understand the issue, but apparently Adobe
software doesn't entirely follow the published specs, whereas TeX does.
And some processing software seems to be designed specifically to work
with the quirks of Acrobat output, and sometimes has trouble with PDFTeX
output.


 - Also, I don't know whether it is possible to downsample images in
 PDF's that you generate from ConTeXt. If it is, avoid it.

That raises an important question: if downsampling is done, is it
obvious what ConTeXt commands cause it to happen?

 The printer
 expects CMYK images (not RGB!) where the resolution is approx. 2 times
 the screen count in the final print, @ the physical size on the paper.
 So if you have an image in your PDF that is 10 cms /4 in. wide, and you
 want it printed in a 150 lpi (lines per inch) screen, make sure the
 original resolution is 300 dpi @ 10 cms / 4 in.

Now that's interesting. I imagined you would get the best results with
images that were designed exactly at the printer resolution.

-- 
Matt Gushee When a nation follows the Way,
Englewood, Colorado, USAHorses bear manure through
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   its fields;
http://www.havenrock.com/   When a nation ignores the Way,
Horses bear soldiers through
its streets.

--Lao Tzu (Peter Merel, trans.)
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Re: [NTG-context] ConTeXt output commercial printing houses: Thanks!

2004-07-27 Thread Bill McClain
On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 00:15:09 -0600
Matt Gushee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Different shops might have different requirements, but Bookmobile
  simply requires an exact image of the book, page size defined to be
  the paper size. Easy. 
 
 You're referring to just the interior, right? I would think that
 covers have to have a bit of bleed, no?

For the front and back covers I've just used the interior paper size.
Given a page count the printer specifies the spine width, and perhaps
they allow a little exapansion there?

For the cover I create a single PDF file with the panels joined as so:

back|spine|front

-Bill
-- 
Sattre Press  Pagan Papers
http://sattre-press.com/by Kenneth Grahame
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://sattre-press.com/pp.html
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Re: [NTG-context] ConTeXt output commercial printing houses: Thanks!

2004-07-27 Thread George N. White III
On Mon, 26 Jul 2004, Brooks Moses wrote:
At 11:15 PM 7/26/2004, you wrote:
On Sat, Jul 24, 2004 at 03:21:39PM -0500, Bill McClain wrote:
- Also, I don't know whether it is possible to downsample images in
PDF's that you generate from ConTeXt. If it is, avoid it.
That raises an important question: if downsampling is done, is it
obvious what ConTeXt commands cause it to happen?
There's, to my knowledge, no engine in pdfTeX for downsampling images; there 
certainly be one coded in ConTeXt.  Thus, I'd be fairly confident in 
guessing that it is indeed, fairly obvious, on grounds that there are no 
commands which do that.
As a general principle, it makes no sense for pdftex to provide image
manipulation capabilities.  Such capabilities are useful to a much wider 
audience than the users of pdftex, so there are lots of tools to do
image resampling and format conversions.  All that pdftex should do is
support inclusion of pdf.  The limited support for including png images
is a convenience, but if you are being careful you would want to make
pdf images.

--
George N. White III  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Head of St. Margarets Bay, Nova Scotia, Canada
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RE: [NTG-context] ConTeXt output commercial printing houses: Thanks!

2004-07-27 Thread Mats Broberg
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Gushee

 Well, yes. Many printers here do prefer PDF. However, there's 
 a small problem in some cases--I know this is true for 
 Kinko's, and was wondering if it's true for regular printers, 
 too: they think that PDF means Adobe PDF--i.e. they believe 
 that Adobe software is *the* way to produce PDF, and are 
 mostly unaware that there is such a thing as a PDF standard. 
 Now, I don't fully understand the issue, but apparently Adobe 
 software doesn't entirely follow the published specs, whereas 
 TeX does. And some processing software seems to be designed 
 specifically to work with the quirks of Acrobat output, and 
 sometimes has trouble with PDFTeX output.

At one of the company I work for, we generate thousands of press-ready
PDF manuals (250+ pp each) every year that are generated from XML source
using XEP from RenderX - with no problems at all. So I don't think it is
a requirement for printers that the PDF files are generated using Adobe
tools.

 Now that's interesting. I imagined you would get the best 
 results with images that were designed exactly at the printer 
 resolution.

True, for line art - but the exactness is unimportant. A common
imagesetter resolution is 2540 lpi, so you may want to create your line
art in that resolution. However, most printers prefer 1200 dpi (but not
less) for line art, since images with a higher resolution become so
large (memory-wise).

Regarding halftones (color or grayscale), the commercial printing
community rule-of-thumb is a resolution about 2 times the screen count.
If your image is 10 cm wide on the scanner and you want it to be 10 cm
wide on the paper, and you want the printer use a screen of 150 lpi,
scan it at an optical resolution of 300 dpi. However, as I mentioned
before, this holds true only if the physical image size and the final
image size are the same. If the image is 5 cm wide on the scanner and
you want it to be 10 cms wide on the paper, you need to scan it with a
resolution of 600 dpi.

Never increase the resolution of an already scanned image using software
interpolation.

Regarding using a higher resolution than 2-2.5 times the screen count,
try to avoid it, since the photomechanical laws of process engraving
doesn't give you a better final image anyway. However, pls note that I
am talking about conventional lito offset here, and that I am talking
about a conventional screen technology (amplitude-modulated screening).
If you are using waterless lito offset, the screen count is usually
quite a bit higher (300-500 lpi are not uncommon), which requires higher
resolutions. Also, if you are using a different screening technology -
e.g. frequency-modulated screening, or a hybride screening - your images
may need to be of a higher resolution too. Talk to your printer.

Best regards,
Mats Broberg 

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RE: [NTG-context] ConTeXt output commercial printing houses

2004-07-25 Thread Mats Broberg
Yes, I eventually found it in that manual - sorry for using bandwidth
for RTFM issues... :)

Best regards,
Mats Broberg

 -Original Message-
 From: Adam Lindsay [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Sent: den 25 juli 2004 13:59
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'mailing list for 
 ConTeXt users'
 Subject: Re: [NTG-context] ConTeXt output  commercial printing houses
 
 
 Mats Broberg said this at Sun, 25 Jul 2004 12:01:03 +0200:
 
 - I don't quite understand how ConTeXt:ers deal with solid PMS spot 
 colours
 
 Mats, have a look at:  
 http://pragma- ade.com/general/manuals/msplit.pdf
 
 
 Disclaimer: I haven't 
 used spot colours yet, but I know it's in a manual. :)
 
 -- 
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  Adam T. Lindsay  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Computing Dept, Lancaster University   +44(0)1524/594.537
  Lancaster, LA1 4YR, UK Fax:+44(0)1524/593.608
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Re: [NTG-context] ConTeXt output commercial printing houses

2004-07-25 Thread Adam Lindsay
Mats Broberg said this at Sun, 25 Jul 2004 12:01:03 +0200:

- I don't quite understand how ConTeXt:ers deal with solid PMS spot
colours 

Mats, have a look at:
 http://pragma-ade.com/general/manuals/msplit.pdf

Disclaimer: I haven't used spot colours yet, but I know it's in a manual. :)

-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 Adam T. Lindsay  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Computing Dept, Lancaster University   +44(0)1524/594.537
 Lancaster, LA1 4YR, UK Fax:+44(0)1524/593.608
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

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