Re: [NTG-context] lack of hyphenation
Mats Broberg wrote: - make inter-column spacing a bit bigger/smaller - make page slightly larger/smaller - increse/decrease bodyfont size - etc the problem is that one can end up in oscillating Hans Wouldn't it be possible to use something like \ballast, in the way it is used in the ledmac package for LaTeX? I don't have the documentation at hand, but if I don't remember wrong, if e.g. a pagebreak starts oscillating, the value of the \ballast is subtracted from the set of different values that makes the pagebreak oscillate. it depends a bit on what effect one wants to achieve, a local fix, say page 7-9),may as well spoil the one at page 123-127, which then spoils the toc, which in turn results in page 7 being messed up because the content moves to page 8, and a figure now ends up on a different side of the spread, and since in that doc graphic alignment is page dependent, we get yet more changes there is quote some two pass info going around and although it may look like things are ok (by looking are some pages) someplace else in the doc things may have gone wrong, which goes unnoticed for a while Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] lack of hyphenation
On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 20:54:07 +0100, Mats Broberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear listmembers, I would say that the risk of getting rivers in text typeset using TeX children is minimum, as long as you choose sensible values for typesize and column width. And much, much less than in MS Word, InDesign, QuarkXPress etc. Btw, here are a few 'Typographical Dreams' of mine, regarding ConTeXt: - Penalty if consecutive lines have the same words typeset exactly above each other - e.g. in the beginning of a line, in the middle of the line etc. Catches your eye. - Penalty for a hyphenated word as the last word on a page. And not putting it in an \mbox. - In Swedish, if the last line in a column is the first line in a new paragraph, this last line is called simple child of a whore. If the first line on a new page is the last line of the preceding page's last paragraph, this line is called double child of a whore. Now, in InDesign and QuarkXPress you can set the software to move over the simple child of a whore to the next page, and, for double child of a whore, to move over a few extra lines to the new page. However, this leaves you with a page that is one or more lines short. When working in these software, you can then slightly, slightly increase the spacing between letters on the page (perhaps only a few thousands of an em). If you are lucky, one of the preceding paragraph expands just enough for its last line move over to a second line, and you're home free. However, for book projects hundreds of pages long, this is something you'd want to automate. Don't know if it is possible in ConTeXt to automate this, but it would be great if it was. Best regards, Mats Broberg Hej Mats! I would like to recommend the interesting document http://www.pragma-ade.com/general/manuals/style.pdf Mvh, Micke P PS Fun to see another swede here on the list DS ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] lack of hyphenation
Mats Broberg wrote: Btw, here are a few 'Typographical Dreams' of mine, regarding ConTeXt: - Penalty if consecutive lines have the same words typeset exactly above each other - e.g. in the beginning of a line, in the middle of the line etc. Catches your eye. since it has to do with extending tex ... that one is for patrick gundlach - Penalty for a hyphenated word as the last word on a page. And not putting it in an \mbox. hm, the problem with such things is that when tex breaks the page, the paragraph is already set; you're looking for some breed between widow/club and hyphenpenalties - In Swedish, if the last line in a column is the first line in a new paragraph, this last line is called simple child of a whore. If the first line on a new page is the last line of the preceding page's last paragraph, this line is called double child of a whore. Now, in InDesign and QuarkXPress you can set the software to move over the simple child of a whore to the next page, and, for double child of a whore, to move over a few extra lines to the new page. However, this leaves you with a page that is one or more lines short. When working in these software, you can then slightly, slightly increase the spacing between letters on the page (perhaps only a few thousands of an em). If you are lucky, one of the preceding paragraph expands just enough for its last line move over to a second line, and you're home free. However, for book projects hundreds of pages long, this is something you'd want to automate. Don't know if it is possible in ConTeXt to automate this, but it would be great if it was. i did play with strategies and strategy passes long ago; strategies could be - make inter-column spacing a bit bigger/smaller - make page slightly larger/smaller - increse/decrease bodyfont size - etc the problem is that one can end up in oscillating Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
RE: [NTG-context] lack of hyphenation
Hej Mats! I would like to recommend the interesting document http://www.pragma-ade.com/general/manuals/style.pdf Mvh, Micke P PS Fun to see another swede here on the list DS Thanks - I knew about that manual already. Best regards, Mats Broberg P.S. Likewise...! D.S. ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] lack of hyphenation
Ciro A. Soto wrote:
The knowlegeable John Culleton said in one of the
lists that he could recognize if a book was typeset
with
MS-word by looking at the rivers and the lack of
but tex is *not* avoiding rivers, since it does not look at it -)
hyphenation. I then checked my 310-page book I am
typesetting with context and not a single line had a
hyphenated word at the end.
what happens when you say:
\en \hyphenatedword{somethingverylong}
when generating a format, are patterns loaded?
if not, make sure that in cont-usr.tex the us hyphenation filename matches the
one on your system,
ushyph1.tex
ushyph2.tex
ushyphen.tex
hyphen.tex
unfortunately those names change per distribution, year, season, user, blow of
the winds, etc
[in a next release, already in alpha, you can use different methods, see
hyphenation document on web site]
Hans
-
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
| www.pragma-pod.nl
-
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Re: [NTG-context] lack of hyphenation
Taco Hoekwater wrote:
Try this: \showhyphens{hyphenation}
It should print
Underfull \hbox (badness 1) in paragraph at lines 2--2
[] \*10ptrmtf* hy-phen-ation
on your terminal. If it doesn't, ConTeXt refuses the hyphenate
English, possibly because the patterns were not loaded in the
format (in that case, updating your ConTeXt is the easiest
solution).
the idea behind the language file posted some time ago is that we can create a
testbed;
[i can imagine that taco/patrick work out something for the mirror/wiki that
unpacks the cont-tmf zip, tests format generation and missing things; kind of
user download simulation]
also, karl berry (tug, tex live, everything tex) is willing to set up a tex live
related testbed for testing if that distributions are shipped 'correct', so if
you have test files ...
Hans
-
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
| www.pragma-pod.nl
-
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RE: [NTG-context] lack of hyphenation
Ciro A. Soto wrote: The knowlegeable John Culleton said in one of the lists that he could recognize if a book was typeset with MS-word by looking at the rivers and the lack of hyphenation. I then checked my 310-page book I am typesetting with context and not a single line had a hyphenated word at the end. So, my question is: Is it okay? Oops - sorry for the misreading! I thought you asked if it was _typographically_ okay - hence my lengthy answer about HJ, Bartels et al...! Best regards, Mats Broberg ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
RE: [NTG-context] lack of hyphenation
Ciro, From a purely typographical point of view, a hyphenated word is always better than excessive space between words in a line (which is more discernable to the eye). However, depending on column width, the language the text is typeset in, and the algorithm that is used for hyphenation justification, some texts can be typeset without very few hyphens. But if a text is typeset without hyphenation - take a really good look at the word spacing. Chances are, they are large. BTW, it's easier to see excessive wordspacing if you hold the page upside down and squint with your eyes. Ok, here's something for the spacing aficionados: Take a look at The art of spacing by Bartels (Chicago, 1926). I have it at hand when I'm writing this. Not one hyphen in the whole book, not one excessive wordspace - and all last lines in paragraphs ending less than a one or two ems from the right margin. Beautiful, and probably mathematically impossible to achieve. If I don't remember wrong, DEK writes about Bartels in one of his books and suspects he rewrote the text while handsetting the lines. I would agree with that. Best regards, Mats Broberg -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ciro A. Soto Sent: den 26 februari 2005 18:08 To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Subject: [NTG-context] lack of hyphenation The knowlegeable John Culleton said in one of the lists that he could recognize if a book was typeset with MS-word by looking at the rivers and the lack of hyphenation. I then checked my 310-page book I am typesetting with context and not a single line had a hyphenated word at the end. So, my question is: Is it okay? or do I need to set any parameter to allow hyphenation? I do have \tolerance=1, because I don't like lines longer than the rest, but I thought I could still get some hyphenated words. Am I right? thank you Ciro = == Ciro A. Soto Author of The Guitar Maker. An Exploration of Wisdom, Design and Love. Pub. Date: Aug. 2005. All problems are at the interface. Each one of them has a solution. ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] lack of hyphenation
Ciro A. Soto wrote: Thank you Taco, this is what I get. I got a *similar* line to what you sent, but not the same. Is it ok? ciro looks fine, so perhaps you have disabled hyphenation by using something like \setuptolerance[verytolerant], or they were truly unnecesary (it is possible) Taco ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
