Re: [NTG-context] Still confused about \setuplayout

2008-08-28 Thread Yue Wang
There is a context reference project, you can help to document it~

On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 4:15 PM, Alan Stone
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Do you, or somebody else, know of any such other basic and precious
 documents which should be included in the main manual, instead of (for
 whatever reason) hidden in some subdomain or subdirectory ?

 Best,
 Alan
 On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 5:53 PM, Patrick Gundlach [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi,


  Meanwhile found the underneath document, which seems to be the most
  corresponding
  ( though incomplete compared to pg 24 of the main manual )
 
  Shows a page layout in half size
  http://levana.de/context/layout/testlay.pdf

 made with

 http://modules.contextgarden.net/t-layout

 Patrick
 --
 ConTeXt wiki and more: http://contextgarden.net

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Re: [NTG-context] Still confused about \setuplayout

2008-08-28 Thread Arthur Reutenauer
 There is a context reference project, you can help to document it~

  I concur.  This would be immensely more useful than contributing huge
threads and smart-arse remarks to this mailing-list (I especially like
the irony of your -- Alan's -- complaints about wasting [your] precious
time).

Arthur
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Re: [NTG-context] Still confused about \setuplayout

2008-08-28 Thread Alan Stone
Hi Arthur,

I would sooner have you hate me for telling the truth than adore me for
telling lies.
- Pietro Aretino

As for the invitation to the reference project, thanks a lot. I have some
work to finish
first, then will have some free time to gladly contribute.

Wishing you a nice day  ( no irony ;O)

Best,
Alan


On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Arthur Reutenauer 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  There is a context reference project, you can help to document it~

  I concur.  This would be immensely more useful than contributing huge
 threads and smart-arse remarks to this mailing-list (I especially like
 the irony of your -- Alan's -- complaints about wasting [your] precious
 time).

Arthur
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Re: [NTG-context] Still confused about \setuplayout

2008-08-27 Thread Alan Stone
 Where did you see topheight, headerheight, footerheight, and bottomheight?

1. http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20080812.135630.04ad74e5.en.html

2. From observation: see \showsetups output (right column)

This part of ConTeXt and/or the instructional resources somehow got so
polluted with
incorrect parameters and/or information, a *serious* cleanup would be
most welcome so
people don't waste their time figuring out which of the basic stuff
really works.

Does somebody have a comprehensive overview of the active \setuplayout
parameters and
their meaning, i.e. where the incorrect parameters and information
have been filtered out ?
That would be most helpful.

Thanks on beforehand.

Best,
Alan


On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 11:17 AM, Aditya Mahajan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Tue, 26 Aug 2008, Alan Stone wrote:

 Hi,

 Taking S6 = 600pt wide x 450pt heigh for example...

 \setuppapersize[S6][S6]

 \showframe
 \showsetups

 \setuplayout[topheight=15pt,
  headerheight=15pt,
  footerheight=15pt,
  bottomheight=15pt,
  leftedgewidth=0pt,
  leftmarginwidth=0pt,
  rightmarginwidth=0pt,
  rightedgewidth=180pt]

 \starttext
 testing
 \stoptext

 How come the showframe and showsetups printouts
 don't correspond to the \setuplayout settings ?

 Where did you see topheight, headerheight, footerheight, and bottomheight?
 Perhaps you wanted

 \setuppapersize[S6][S6]

 \showframe
 \showsetups

 \setuplayout[topspace=15pt,
   header=15pt,
   height=middle,
   footer=15pt,
   bottomspace=15pt,
   backspace=0pt,
   width=middle,
   cutspace=180pt]

 \starttext
 testing
 \stoptext

 Aditya
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Re: [NTG-context] Still confused about \setuplayout

2008-08-27 Thread Alan Stone
On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 11:17 AM, Aditya Mahajan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Where did you see topheight, headerheight, footerheight, and bottomheight?
 Perhaps you wanted

 \setuppapersize[S6][S6]

 \showframe
 \showsetups

 \setuplayout[topspace=15pt,
   header=15pt,
   height=middle,
   footer=15pt,
   bottomspace=15pt,
   backspace=0pt,
   width=middle,
   cutspace=180pt]

 \starttext
 testing
 \stoptext

 Aditya


Although this isn't what I want, you'll notice none of the \showsetups
output values correspond to the \setuplayout settings.

What's missing to make this work ?

Best,
Alan
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Re: [NTG-context] Still confused about \setuplayout

2008-08-27 Thread Hans Hagen
Alan Stone wrote:
 On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 11:17 AM, Aditya Mahajan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Where did you see topheight, headerheight, footerheight, and bottomheight?
 Perhaps you wanted

 \setuppapersize[S6][S6]

 \showframe
 \showsetups

move the previous line


 \setuplayout[topspace=15pt,
   header=15pt,
   height=middle,
   footer=15pt,
   bottomspace=15pt,
   backspace=0pt,
   width=middle,
   cutspace=180pt]

 \starttext

to here

 testing
 \stoptext

 Aditya

 
 Although this isn't what I want, you'll notice none of the \showsetups
 output values correspond to the \setuplayout settings.
 
 What's missing to make this work ?
 
 Best,
 Alan
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [NTG-context] Still confused about \setuplayout

2008-08-27 Thread Alan Stone
Going back to my example (see below)...

Same observations, same questions.

Alan

\setuppapersize[S6][S6]

\setuplayout[topheight=15pt,
headerheight=15pt,
footerheight=15pt,
bottomheight=15pt,
leftedgewidth=0pt,
leftmarginwidth=0pt,
rightmarginwidth=0pt,
rightedgewidth=180pt]

\showframe
\showsetups

\starttext
testing
\stoptext


On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 1:27 PM, Hans Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Alan Stone wrote:
  On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 11:17 AM, Aditya Mahajan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 
  Where did you see topheight, headerheight, footerheight, and
 bottomheight?
  Perhaps you wanted
 
  \setuppapersize[S6][S6]
 
  \showframe
  \showsetups

 move the previous line

 
  \setuplayout[topspace=15pt,
header=15pt,
height=middle,
footer=15pt,
bottomspace=15pt,
backspace=0pt,
width=middle,
cutspace=180pt]
 
  \starttext

 to here

  testing
  \stoptext
 
  Aditya
 
 
  Although this isn't what I want, you'll notice none of the \showsetups
  output values correspond to the \setuplayout settings.
 
  What's missing to make this work ?
 
  Best,
  Alan

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Re: [NTG-context] Still confused about \setuplayout

2008-08-27 Thread Hans Hagen
Alan Stone wrote:
 Going back to my example (see below)...
 
 Same observations, same questions.
 
 Alan
 
 \setuppapersize[S6][S6]
 
 \setuplayout[topheight=15pt,
 headerheight=15pt,
 footerheight=15pt,
 bottomheight=15pt,

top,header,footer,bottom etc no height/width appended

 leftedgewidth=0pt,
 leftmarginwidth=0pt,
 rightmarginwidth=0pt,
 rightedgewidth=180pt]
 
 \showframe
 \showsetups
 
 \starttext
 testing
 \stoptext
 
 
 On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 1:27 PM, Hans Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Alan Stone wrote:
 On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 11:17 AM, Aditya Mahajan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 Where did you see topheight, headerheight, footerheight, and
 bottomheight?
 Perhaps you wanted

 \setuppapersize[S6][S6]

 \showframe
 \showsetups
 move the previous line

 \setuplayout[topspace=15pt,
   header=15pt,
   height=middle,
   footer=15pt,
   bottomspace=15pt,
   backspace=0pt,
   width=middle,
   cutspace=180pt]

 \starttext
 to here

 testing
 \stoptext

 Aditya

 Although this isn't what I want, you'll notice none of the \showsetups
 output values correspond to the \setuplayout settings.

 What's missing to make this work ?

 Best,
 Alan
 
 
 
 
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Re: [NTG-context] Still confused about \setuplayout

2008-08-27 Thread Taco Hoekwater
Alan Stone wrote:
 Going back to my example (see below)...
 
 Same observations, same questions.

The names and values reported by showsetups are not 1-to-1 to
the arguments of \setuplayout. If you want to know what you
can use in \setuplayout, use any of the manuals, or texshow:

   http://texshow.contextgarden.net/command/detail/221

That said, it is a little confusing that the table from
\showsetups doesn't match up ...

Taco
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Re: [NTG-context] Still confused about \setuplayout

2008-08-27 Thread Alan Stone
That said, it is a little confusing that the table from
\showsetups doesn't match up ...

A little ???

Alan

On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 3:09 PM, Taco Hoekwater [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Alan Stone wrote:
  Going back to my example (see below)...
 
  Same observations, same questions.

 The names and values reported by showsetups are not 1-to-1 to
 the arguments of \setuplayout. If you want to know what you
 can use in \setuplayout, use any of the manuals, or texshow:

   http://texshow.contextgarden.net/command/detail/221

 That said, it is a little confusing that the table from
 \showsetups doesn't match up ...

 Taco

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Re: [NTG-context] Still confused about \setuplayout

2008-08-27 Thread Hans Hagen
Alan Stone wrote:
 On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 2:41 PM, Hans Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Alan Stone wrote:
 Going back to my example (see below)...

 Same observations, same questions.

 Alan

 \setuppapersize[S6][S6]

 \setuplayout[topheight=15pt,
 headerheight=15pt,
 footerheight=15pt,
 bottomheight=15pt,
 top,header,footer,bottom etc no height/width appended
 
 
 Thanks Hans.
 
 - \showsetups output contains a lot of junk, a thorough cleaning would be
 utmost welcome

well, one can roll out his/her own -)

 - \showframe doesn't draw topspace and bottomspace
 
 - which \setuplayout parameters enable a space/blank area between
 the left/right page border and the left/right of leftedge/rightedge ?

leftedgedistance (which defaults to edgedistance)

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  | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: [NTG-context] Still confused about \setuplayout

2008-08-27 Thread Alan Stone
On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 2:41 PM, Hans Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Alan Stone wrote:
  Going back to my example (see below)...
 
  Same observations, same questions.
 
  Alan
 
  \setuppapersize[S6][S6]
 
  \setuplayout[topheight=15pt,
  headerheight=15pt,
  footerheight=15pt,
  bottomheight=15pt,

 top,header,footer,bottom etc no height/width appended


Thanks Hans.

- \showsetups output contains a lot of junk, a thorough cleaning would be
utmost welcome

- \showframe doesn't draw topspace and bottomspace

- which \setuplayout parameters enable a space/blank area between
the left/right page border and the left/right of leftedge/rightedge ?

Alan


  leftedgewidth=0pt,
  leftmarginwidth=0pt,
  rightmarginwidth=0pt,
  rightedgewidth=180pt]
 
  \showframe
  \showsetups
 
  \starttext
  testing
  \stoptext
 
 
  On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 1:27 PM, Hans Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Alan Stone wrote:
  On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 11:17 AM, Aditya Mahajan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  wrote:
  Where did you see topheight, headerheight, footerheight, and
  bottomheight?
  Perhaps you wanted
 
  \setuppapersize[S6][S6]
 
  \showframe
  \showsetups
  move the previous line
 
  \setuplayout[topspace=15pt,
header=15pt,
height=middle,
footer=15pt,
bottomspace=15pt,
backspace=0pt,
width=middle,
cutspace=180pt]
 
  \starttext
  to here
 
  testing
  \stoptext
 
  Aditya
 
  Although this isn't what I want, you'll notice none of the \showsetups
  output values correspond to the \setuplayout settings.
 
  What's missing to make this work ?
 
  Best,
  Alan

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Re: [NTG-context] Still confused about \setuplayout

2008-08-27 Thread Alan Stone
On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 3:36 PM, Hans Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Alan Stone wrote:
  On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 2:41 PM, Hans Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Alan Stone wrote:
  Going back to my example (see below)...
 
  Same observations, same questions.
 
  Alan
 
  \setuppapersize[S6][S6]
 
  \setuplayout[topheight=15pt,
  headerheight=15pt,
  footerheight=15pt,
  bottomheight=15pt,
  top,header,footer,bottom etc no height/width appended
 
 
  Thanks Hans.
 
  - \showsetups output contains a lot of junk, a thorough cleaning would be
  utmost welcome

 well, one can roll out his/her own -)


I guess as long as one knows to what each parameter corresponds.  ;O)

Nevertheless, please say more about that.


  - which \setuplayout parameters enable a space/blank area between
  the left/right page border and the left/right of leftedge/rightedge ?

  - \showframe doesn't draw topspace and bottomspace

 leftedgedistance (which defaults to edgedistance)


left/rightedgedistance is documented elsewhere as being between
left/rightedge and left/rightmargin.

CanItBeAnyMoreConfusingText ?

Alan
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Re: [NTG-context] Still confused about \setuplayout

2008-08-27 Thread Hans Hagen
Alan Stone wrote:
 On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 3:36 PM, Hans Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Alan Stone wrote:
 On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 2:41 PM, Hans Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Alan Stone wrote:
 Going back to my example (see below)...

 Same observations, same questions.

 Alan

 \setuppapersize[S6][S6]

 \setuplayout[topheight=15pt,
 headerheight=15pt,
 footerheight=15pt,
 bottomheight=15pt,
 top,header,footer,bottom etc no height/width appended

 Thanks Hans.

 - \showsetups output contains a lot of junk, a thorough cleaning would be
 utmost welcome
 well, one can roll out his/her own -)
 
 
 I guess as long as one knows to what each parameter corresponds.  ;O)
 
 Nevertheless, please say more about that.
 
 
 - which \setuplayout parameters enable a space/blank area between
 the left/right page border and the left/right of leftedge/rightedge ?
 - \showframe doesn't draw topspace and bottomspace
 leftedgedistance (which defaults to edgedistance)
 
 
 left/rightedgedistance is documented elsewhere as being between
 left/rightedge and left/rightmargin.

indeed, you have to see these dimensions outwards (so, margindistance, 
margin, edgedistance, edge ... these extend into the backspace or 
cutspace depending on left/right)

Hans



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Re: [NTG-context] Still confused about \setuplayout

2008-08-27 Thread Taco Hoekwater
Alan Stone wrote:
 
 CanItBeAnyMoreConfusingText ?

 From left to right, you have:

   (left)edge
   (left)edgedistance
   (left)margin
   (left)margindistance
   width
   (right)margindistance
   (right)margin
   (right)edgedistance
   (right)edge

The location of all this on the paper is defined by backspace, which
gives the distance between the appropriate (left or right) edge of the
text width and the physical paper edge.

Similar logic applies in the vertical direction. \showlayout will
give the current values and keys (put it after \starttext, it generates 
four pages of typeset information).  I am somewhat confused myself as to
why this is generally considered to  be so confusing.

In vertical mode, it goes like this

top
topdistance
header
headerdistance
textheight
footerdistance
footer
bottomdistance
bottom

height sets up the dimension that controls the inner five areas
(header ... footer). topspace is the distance between the vertical
top edge of the paper and the top of header.

You can put \showlayout after \starttext. It will generate four pages
of settings (because of double-sided ness).

Best wishes,
Taco


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Re: [NTG-context] Still confused about \setuplayout

2008-08-27 Thread Alan Stone
Thanks Taco.

I am somewhat confused myself as to why this is generally considered to  be
so confusing.

What's most confusing are the:

- wiki layout explanation at http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Layout
- \showsetups output
- excursion manual, table 33.2 page 74
- main manual page 24
- \setuplayout texshow page

each one listing the same thing similarly or differently using either
arguments, parameters
and/or variables, the latter of which for the most have nothing to do with
the \setuplayout
arguments ( or are these parameters, or variables ? )

Best,
Alan

On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 5:07 PM, Taco Hoekwater [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Alan Stone wrote:
 
  CanItBeAnyMoreConfusingText ?

  From left to right, you have:

   (left)edge
   (left)edgedistance
   (left)margin
   (left)margindistance
   width
   (right)margindistance
   (right)margin
   (right)edgedistance
   (right)edge

 The location of all this on the paper is defined by backspace, which
 gives the distance between the appropriate (left or right) edge of the
 text width and the physical paper edge.

 Similar logic applies in the vertical direction. \showlayout will
 give the current values and keys (put it after \starttext, it generates
 four pages of typeset information).  I am somewhat confused myself as to
 why this is generally considered to  be so confusing.

 In vertical mode, it goes like this

top
topdistance
header
headerdistance
textheight
footerdistance
footer
bottomdistance
bottom

 height sets up the dimension that controls the inner five areas
 (header ... footer). topspace is the distance between the vertical
 top edge of the paper and the top of header.

 You can put \showlayout after \starttext. It will generate four pages
 of settings (because of double-sided ness).

 Best wishes,
 Taco

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Re: [NTG-context] Still confused about \setuplayout

2008-08-27 Thread Alan Stone
On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 4:47 PM, Hans Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 indeed, you have to see these dimensions outwards (so, margindistance,
 margin, edgedistance, edge ... these extend into the backspace or
 cutspace depending on left/right)


Ahaa. I'm beginning to understand.

Meanwhile found the underneath document, which seems to be the most
corresponding
( though incomplete compared to pg 24 of the main manual )

Shows a page layout in half size
http://levana.de/context/layout/testlay.pdf

Thanks all,
Alan
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Re: [NTG-context] Still confused about \setuplayout

2008-08-27 Thread Patrick Gundlach
Hi,


 Meanwhile found the underneath document, which seems to be the most
 corresponding
 ( though incomplete compared to pg 24 of the main manual )

 Shows a page layout in half size
 http://levana.de/context/layout/testlay.pdf

made with

http://modules.contextgarden.net/t-layout

Patrick
-- 
ConTeXt wiki and more: http://contextgarden.net
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Re: [NTG-context] Still confused about \setuplayout

2008-08-27 Thread Taco Hoekwater
Alan Stone wrote:
 - \showsetups output
 The \setuplayout parameters are in column one, the query-ing macros
 are in column four. These are correct.
 
 
 Good to finally know what corresponds to what. It might be useful to put
 a label mentioning these at the top of both columns.
 
 What do you mean by query-ing macros Taco ?

You can do e.g.

   \externalfigure[cow][width=\textwidth]

where \textwidth resolves to the current value of 'textwidth', etc.

The commands allow you to query values, while \setuplayout sets values.

Best wishes,
Taco




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Re: [NTG-context] Still confused about \setuplayout

2008-08-26 Thread Peter Rolf
Alan Stone schrieb:
 Hi,
 
 Taking S6 = 600pt wide x 450pt heigh for example...
 
 \setuppapersize[S6][S6]
 
 \showframe
 \showsetups
 
 \setuplayout[topheight=15pt,
   headerheight=15pt,
   footerheight=15pt,
   bottomheight=15pt,
   leftedgewidth=0pt,
   leftmarginwidth=0pt,
   rightmarginwidth=0pt,
   rightedgewidth=180pt]
   
 \starttext
 testing
 \stoptext
 
 How come the showframe and showsetups printouts
 don't correspond to the \setuplayout settings ?

I assume that you use an Adobe product for printing.
In the print dialog there is a menulist named 'Page Scaling'. Be sure
that 'None' is selected there.

Best wishes, Peter

 Thanks,
 Alan
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Re: [NTG-context] Still confused about \setuplayout

2008-08-26 Thread Alan Stone
Hi Peter,

I meant the showframe and showsetups displays on the pdf document itself,
not the document paper printout.

Best,
Alan
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Re: [NTG-context] Still confused about \setuplayout

2008-08-26 Thread Aditya Mahajan
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008, Alan Stone wrote:

 Hi,

 Taking S6 = 600pt wide x 450pt heigh for example...

 \setuppapersize[S6][S6]

 \showframe
 \showsetups

 \setuplayout[topheight=15pt,
  headerheight=15pt,
  footerheight=15pt,
  bottomheight=15pt,
  leftedgewidth=0pt,
  leftmarginwidth=0pt,
  rightmarginwidth=0pt,
  rightedgewidth=180pt]

 \starttext
 testing
 \stoptext

 How come the showframe and showsetups printouts
 don't correspond to the \setuplayout settings ?

Where did you see topheight, headerheight, footerheight, and bottomheight? 
Perhaps you wanted

\setuppapersize[S6][S6]

\showframe
\showsetups

\setuplayout[topspace=15pt,
   header=15pt,
   height=middle,
   footer=15pt,
   bottomspace=15pt,
   backspace=0pt,
   width=middle,
   cutspace=180pt]

\starttext
testing
\stoptext

Aditya
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Re: [NTG-context] Still confused about \setuplayout

2008-08-26 Thread Peter Rolf
Alan Stone schrieb:
 Hi Peter,
 
 I meant the showframe and showsetups displays on the pdf document itself,
 not the document paper printout.
 
oeps, sorry :)

you simply use some wrong parameter here (names of internal dimensions).
e.g. use 'footer=15pt' instead of 'footerheight=15pt'.

best wishes, peter

 Best,
 Alan
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