Re: [NTG-context] indent lost after \placefigure
Alan BRASLAU wrote: Furthermore, \setupfloats [indentnext=yes] is somewhat strange. I suppose that it might make sense not to indent a new paragraph following a section title, etc. but does it really make sense not to indent a NEW paragraph following a break such as a displayed figure, table, or formula, etc.? Definitely so: almost all of the (non-science) layout specifications I have seen in my professional work request exactly this behavior. Best wishes, Taco ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] indent lost after \placefigure
On Thursday 11 February 2010 08:57:21 Alan BRASLAU wrote: On Thursday 11 February 2010 05:07:15 Wolfgang Schuster wrote: Am 11.02.10 02:14, schrieb Tom: When I place a figure at the bottom of a page, everything is fine if it splits a paragraph, but if it falls between paragraphs, indentation of at least one of the paragraphs, generally the one coming after the figure, is lost. It appears that this has been a problem for some people over the years. \setupfloats[indentnext=yes] An opposite feature is also strange - minimal example: \setupindenting [medium,yes] \starttext A paragraph, including an itemized list: \startitemize [joinedup,packed] \item first \item second \stopitemize The following text is indented. It is not a new paragraph. \stoptext Alan ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] indent lost after \placefigure
On Thu, Feb 11 2010, Alan BRASLAU wrote: An opposite feature is also strange - minimal example: \setupindenting [medium,yes] \starttext A paragraph, including an itemized list: \startitemize [joinedup,packed] \item first \item second \stopitemize The following text is indented. It is not a new paragraph. \stoptext \setupitemize[indentnext=auto] % should be default value everywhere IMHO Cheers, Peter -- Contact information: http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/ ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] indent lost after \placefigure
On Thursday 11 February 2010 02:14:12 Tom wrote:
When I place a figure at the bottom of a page, everything is fine if it
splits a paragraph, but if it falls between paragraphs, indentation of at
least one of the paragraphs, generally the one coming after the figure, is
lost. It appears that this has been a problem for some people over the
years.
On Thursday 11 February 2010 13:23:43 Peter Münster wrote:
\setupitemize[indentnext=auto] % should be default value everywhere IMHO
So here is the `bug' related to this entire thread -- minimal example:
\setupindenting [medium,yes]
\setupfloats [indentnext=auto]
\starttext
\input knuth
\placefigure [here] {none} {\externalfigure [cow]}
\input knuth
\stoptext
Doesn't work, but \setupfloats [indentnext=yes]
forces knuth after the figure to be indented.
Alan
PS: Your opinion is not so humble, and I do not really see the rational
why indentnext=no is the default for most things* rather than indentnext=auto.
*OK, perhaps \setupheads...
PPS: Subject: What do you miss in ConTeXt?
On Tuesday 09 February 2010 19:51:13 Hans Hagen wrote:
\composemanual [title=The real context manual,writingstyle=knuth]
Let's do it!
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the
Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___
Re: [NTG-context] indent lost after \placefigure
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010, Alan BRASLAU wrote:
PS: Your opinion is not so humble, and I do not really see the rational
why indentnext=no is the default for most things* rather than indentnext=auto.
Below is my understanding of ConTeXt's design principle (Hans or Taco should
correct me if I am wrong). Content should be separate from presentation. This
means that indentation should be a function of semantics, and not of how you
format your source. So
some text ...
\startitemize
\item
\item
\stopitemize
some more text
and
some text
\startitemize
\item
\item
\stopitemize
some more text ...
should give the same result. If you want an item group that does not start a
paragraph, and an item group that starts a new paragraph, then they are two
different objects and you should define two different environments for them.
\defineitemgroup[spitemize] %single para
[indentnext=no,
before=\blank,
after=\blank]
\defineitemgroup[mpitemize] %multi para
[indentnext=yes,
before={\blank[big]},
after={\blank[big]}]
Then you can use \startspitemize or \startmpitemize dependening on what you
want. The way you format the source does not matter.
Aditya
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the
Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___
Re: [NTG-context] indent lost after \placefigure
On Thursday 11 February 2010 18:55:01 Aditya Mahajan wrote:
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010, Alan BRASLAU wrote:
PS: Your opinion is not so humble, and I do not really see the rational
why indentnext=no is the default for most things* rather than
indentnext=auto.
Below is my understanding of ConTeXt's design principle (Hans or Taco
should correct me if I am wrong). Content should be separate from
presentation. This means that indentation should be a function of
semantics, and not of how you format your source. So
some text ...
\startitemize
\item
\item
\stopitemize
some more text
and
some text
\startitemize
\item
\item
\stopitemize
some more text ...
should give the same result. If you want an item group that does not start
a paragraph, and an item group that starts a new paragraph, then they are
two different objects and you should define two different environments for
them.
\defineitemgroup[spitemize] %single para
[indentnext=no,
before=\blank,
after=\blank]
\defineitemgroup[mpitemize] %multi para
[indentnext=yes,
before={\blank[big]},
after={\blank[big]}]
Then you can use \startspitemize or \startmpitemize dependening on what you
want. The way you format the source does not matter.
Aditya
That is really ugly: different cases of itemize...
If indeed the design principle that you describe is true,
then I would *strongly* argue that one should get rid of
a blank line separating paragraphs and *require* the use of \par
I don't totally agree with this, as I think that the document source
should look as simple as possible, and paragraphs separated by blank
lines do a lot to make the text readable, more so than
\par
A new paragraph.
Alan
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the
Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___
Re: [NTG-context] indent lost after \placefigure
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010, Alan BRASLAU wrote:
On Thursday 11 February 2010 18:55:01 Aditya Mahajan wrote:
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010, Alan BRASLAU wrote:
PS: Your opinion is not so humble, and I do not really see the rational
why indentnext=no is the default for most things* rather than
indentnext=auto.
Below is my understanding of ConTeXt's design principle (Hans or Taco
should correct me if I am wrong). Content should be separate from
presentation. This means that indentation should be a function of
semantics, and not of how you format your source. So
some text ...
\startitemize
\item
\item
\stopitemize
some more text
and
some text
\startitemize
\item
\item
\stopitemize
some more text ...
should give the same result. If you want an item group that does not start
a paragraph, and an item group that starts a new paragraph, then they are
two different objects and you should define two different environments for
them.
\defineitemgroup[spitemize] %single para
[indentnext=no,
before=\blank,
after=\blank]
\defineitemgroup[mpitemize] %multi para
[indentnext=yes,
before={\blank[big]},
after={\blank[big]}]
Then you can use \startspitemize or \startmpitemize dependening on what you
want. The way you format the source does not matter.
Aditya
That is really ugly: different cases of itemize...
Agreed. That is a matter of personal preference. you can always add
indentnext=auto to \setupitemize (I always do that for formulas) or
indentnext=yes|no to individual itemize.
If indeed the design principle that you describe is true,
what I said was how I understand things, and I may be completely wrong
here.
then I would *strongly* argue that one should get rid of
a blank line separating paragraphs and *require* the use of \par
AFAIU, tex does not differentiate between blank lines and \par
(unless you change the catcode of eol).
I don't totally agree with this, as I think that the document source
should look as simple as possible, and paragraphs separated by blank
lines do a lot to make the text readable, more so than
And I am suggesting that adding blank lines around ALL environments,
without changing the output.
In any case, ConTeXt is flexible to allow you to use whichever style you
prefer. It just defaults to one thing. You can have a 'autoindent' module
that adds indent=auto to all \setup commands.
Aditya
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the
Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___
Re: [NTG-context] indent lost after \placefigure
This works, but my problem may be self-inflicted by my code for chapter
first pages. I want different a different first page format for the
introduction, contents and appendices than I have for regular chapters. I
suppose that \chapter can be fed parameters other than the chapter name, but
can't find them described in the manual. It isn't clear to me if \setuphead
can be used for these non-standard chapters.
Tom
-Original Message-
From: ntg-context-boun...@ntg.nl [mailto:ntg-context-boun...@ntg.nl] On
Behalf Of Alan BRASLAU
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 AM
To: ntg-context@ntg.nl
Subject: Re: [NTG-context] indent lost after \placefigure
On Thursday 11 February 2010 02:14:12 Tom wrote:
When I place a figure at the bottom of a page, everything is fine if it
splits a paragraph, but if it falls between paragraphs, indentation of at
least one of the paragraphs, generally the one coming after the figure, is
lost. It appears that this has been a problem for some people over the
years.
On Thursday 11 February 2010 13:23:43 Peter Münster wrote:
\setupitemize[indentnext=auto] % should be default value everywhere IMHO
So here is the `bug' related to this entire thread -- minimal example:
\setupindenting [medium,yes]
\setupfloats [indentnext=auto]
\starttext
\input knuth
\placefigure [here] {none} {\externalfigure [cow]}
\input knuth
\stoptext
Doesn't work, but \setupfloats [indentnext=yes]
forces knuth after the figure to be indented.
Alan
PS: Your opinion is not so humble, and I do not really see the rational
why indentnext=no is the default for most things* rather than
indentnext=auto.
*OK, perhaps \setupheads...
PPS: Subject: What do you miss in ConTeXt?
On Tuesday 09 February 2010 19:51:13 Hans Hagen wrote:
\composemanual [title=The real context manual,writingstyle=knuth]
Let's do it!
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the
Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___
Re: [NTG-context] indent lost after \placefigure
Am 11.02.10 02:14, schrieb Tom: When I place a figure at the bottom of a page, everything is fine if it splits a paragraph, but if it falls between paragraphs, indentation of at least one of the paragraphs, generally the one coming after the figure, is lost. It appears that this has been a problem for some people over the years. \setupfloats[indentnext=yes] Wolfgang ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] indent lost after \placefigure
Is there something else I should do? I still have 2 instances of the paragraph immediately after a figure not indented. Both of these are on the tops of their respective pages. And I have one paragraph just before a figure that is not indented. I tried \indenting[yes] for the paragraphs in question to no avail. Tom Benjey 717-258-9733 voice 717-243-0074 fax Twitter: @TomBenjey Am 11.02.10 02:14, schrieb Tom: When I place a figure at the bottom of a page, everything is fine if it splits a paragraph, but if it falls between paragraphs, indentation of at least one of the paragraphs, generally the one coming after the figure, is lost. It appears that this has been a problem for some people over the years. \setupfloats[indentnext=yes] Wolfgang ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] indent lost after \placefigure
On Thursday 11 February 2010 05:07:15 Wolfgang Schuster wrote: Am 11.02.10 02:14, schrieb Tom: When I place a figure at the bottom of a page, everything is fine if it splits a paragraph, but if it falls between paragraphs, indentation of at least one of the paragraphs, generally the one coming after the figure, is lost. It appears that this has been a problem for some people over the years. \setupfloats[indentnext=yes] Can someone explain the design behind placefigure? Indeed, I would expect it to create a float that is then placed as best as possible according to certain criteria. But it appears to be oriented towards only a certain use: before or between paragraphs as it imposes a line break. I have never understood the logic of this. I would like to declare a float at any point, even in the middle of a paragraph (for example, at the first instance referring to the figure), so that the figure or table will be placed at the first instance possible following the reference. Currently, this imposes a line break (which makes sense for \placefigure [force] but not necessairly in other cases). As things stand now, I find that I must declare my floats either before or after the paragraph containing the figure or table reference. The float then may appear before or long after its text reference, in particular if the paragraph is long. Furthermore, \setupfloats [indentnext=yes] is somewhat strange. I suppose that it might make sense not to indent a new paragraph following a section title, etc. but does it really make sense not to indent a NEW paragraph following a break such as a displayed figure, table, or formula, etc.? Alan ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
