Re: [NTG-context] open quotation not working

2013-10-22 Thread Mojca Miklavec
On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
 Am 13.10.2013 um 06:09 schrieb Ciro A. Soto:

 sorry, I just saw an old chain of messages about this question... I fixed it 
 with the translation module.
 \usemodule[translate]
 \translateinput[``][“]
 \enableinputtranslation

 Better use real quotation marks “ and ” or \quotation{…}.

Or \quotedblleft, \quotedblright, \quotedblbase, no name for 201F.
For the flowing text these are a bit too long to use and remember for
my taste though.

LaTeX sometimes uses \grqq  \glqq which are a whole lot shorter, but
also not the easiest one to remember (or at least I don't understand
the pattern).

There could be something like \quotationleft/\quotationright 
\quoteleft/\quoteright for a single language-dependent single  double
quotation marks. And maybe another language-independent version which
would always generate the desired character (if looking for
hard-to-remember shortcuts, l/u - lower/upper; g/b/p -
9-like/6-like/reversed 9-like shape, q/qq - single/double quotation
mark; so 201C “ - \qqub [or \ubqq], 201D ” - \qqug; 201E „ - \qqlg;
201F ‟ - \qqup). Personally I never use them unpaired other than in
obscure situations (like listing all characters), so I like \quotation
and \quote a lot more than the TeX approach which taught almost
everyone here to use the wrong quotation marks. And consequently I
also don't miss any of these commands.

MS Word at least does the proper auto-replacement if the right
language is used, but in TeX most people here just cloned Knuth's
approach without giving a single thought to the local grammar  its
rules.

@John: you can always create your own feature file to do the
replacement and load it.

Mojca
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Re: [NTG-context] open quotation not working

2013-10-22 Thread Wolfgang Schuster

Am 22.10.2013 um 16:38 schrieb Mojca Miklavec mojca.miklavec.li...@gmail.com:

 On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
 Am 13.10.2013 um 06:09 schrieb Ciro A. Soto:
 
 sorry, I just saw an old chain of messages about this question... I fixed 
 it with the translation module.
 \usemodule[translate]
 \translateinput[``][“]
 \enableinputtranslation
 
 Better use real quotation marks “ and ” or \quotation{…}.
 
 Or \quotedblleft, \quotedblright, \quotedblbase, no name for 201F.
 For the flowing text these are a bit too long to use and remember for
 my taste though.
 
 LaTeX sometimes uses \grqq  \glqq which are a whole lot shorter, but
 also not the easiest one to remember (or at least I don't understand
 the pattern).
 
 There could be something like \quotationleft/\quotationright 
 \quoteleft/\quoteright for a single language-dependent single  double
 quotation marks. And maybe another language-independent version which
 would always generate the desired character (if looking for
 hard-to-remember shortcuts, l/u - lower/upper; g/b/p -
 9-like/6-like/reversed 9-like shape, q/qq - single/double quotation
 mark; so 201C “ - \qqub [or \ubqq], 201D ” - \qqug; 201E „ - \qqlg;
 201F ‟ - \qqup). Personally I never use them unpaired other than in
 obscure situations (like listing all characters), so I like \quotation
 and \quote a lot more than the TeX approach which taught almost
 everyone here to use the wrong quotation marks. And consequently I
 also don't miss any of these commands.

\starttext

\symbol[leftquotation]Left \symbol[leftquote]middle\symbol[rightquote] 
right\symbol[rightquotation]

\language[de]

\symbol[leftquotation]Left \symbol[leftquote]middle\symbol[rightquote] 
right\symbol[rightquotation]

\setuplanguage
  [de]
  [leftquote=›,
   rightquote=‹,
   leftquotation=»,
   rightquotation=«]

\symbol[leftquotation]Left \symbol[leftquote]middle\symbol[rightquote] 
right\symbol[rightquotation]

\stoptext

Wolfgang
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Re: [NTG-context] open quotation not working

2013-10-21 Thread john Culleton
On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 11:30:54 +0200
Wolfgang Schuster schuster.wolfg...@gmail.com wrote:

 
 Am 13.10.2013 um 06:09 schrieb Ciro A. Soto c...@kavyata.com:
 
  sorry, I just saw an old chain of messages about this question... I
  fixed it with the translation module. \usemodule[translate]
  \translateinput[``][“]
  \enableinputtranslation
 
 Better use real quotation marks “ and ” or \quotation{…}.
 
 Wolfgang
 

Why is it better? And why is it so difficult to just reinstall the
traditional TeX method of handling quotes? Even the MSWin version of
smart quotes using the  glyph would be a worthwhile simplification. 


Not every change is an improvement, IMO.







-- 
John Culleton
Wexford Press
Free list of books for self-publishers:
http://wexfordpress.net/shortlist.html
PDF e-book: Create Book Covers with Scribus
available at http://www.booklocker.com/books/4055.html
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Re: [NTG-context] open quotation not working

2013-10-21 Thread Khaled Hosny
On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 01:57:22PM -0400, john Culleton wrote:
 On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 11:30:54 +0200
 Wolfgang Schuster schuster.wolfg...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  
  Am 13.10.2013 um 06:09 schrieb Ciro A. Soto c...@kavyata.com:
  
   sorry, I just saw an old chain of messages about this question... I
   fixed it with the translation module. \usemodule[translate]
   \translateinput[``][“]
   \enableinputtranslation
  
  Better use real quotation marks “ and ” or \quotation{…}.
  
  Wolfgang
  
 
 Why is it better? And why is it so difficult to just reinstall the
 traditional TeX method of handling quotes? Even the MSWin version of
 smart quotes using the  glyph would be a worthwhile simplification. 

Because the “traditional TeX” was a font hack, if you are fine with
using the original Knuth fonts you can still get it. Modern fonts do not
implement such a feature. Besides, \quotation{…} provide much more
options (like being language sensitive, or handling nested quotes and so
on).

Regards,
Khaled
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Re: [NTG-context] open quotation not working

2013-10-21 Thread Peter Münster
On Mon, Oct 21 2013, john Culleton wrote:

 Not every change is an improvement, IMO.


On Sat, Jul 27 2013, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

 On the other hand many languages use different quotation marks and
 using ``these'' is completely americanocentric. On top,
 auto-replacement lead to inability to typeset the actual backtick (`)
 when it's needed. So yes, getting rid of `` replaced by quotation by
 default *was* an improvement.

(copied from http://www.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/2013/074277.html )

-- 
   Peter
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Re: [NTG-context] open quotation not working

2013-10-21 Thread Hans Hagen

On 10/22/2013 2:57 AM, john Culleton wrote:

On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 11:30:54 +0200
Wolfgang Schuster schuster.wolfg...@gmail.com wrote:



Am 13.10.2013 um 06:09 schrieb Ciro A. Soto c...@kavyata.com:


sorry, I just saw an old chain of messages about this question... I
fixed it with the translation module. \usemodule[translate]
\translateinput[``][“]
\enableinputtranslation


Better use real quotation marks “ and ” or \quotation{…}.

Wolfgang



Why is it better? And why is it so difficult to just reinstall the
traditional TeX method of handling quotes? Even the MSWin version of
smart quotes using the  glyph would be a worthwhile simplification.


traditional tex was meant for (us) english ... and geared at cm fonts .. 
you can't expect all context users to take english as their default so 
either you use the proper quotes for your language (as wolfgang pointed 
out) or you use \quotation (which adapt itself to the main language)



Not every change is an improvement, IMO.


there are more such traditional features that are fine in a restricted 
usage but not that handy today


btw, if you look into the traditional tex fonts you see more pseudo 
ligatures (-- --- space+... some quotes) and if you ever had to use a 
commercial font or a free one not tuned for tex, you wouldn't have had 
those quote ligs either ... it is a dependency you don't want nowadays


Hans

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 | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: [NTG-context] open quotation not working

2013-10-13 Thread Wolfgang Schuster

Am 13.10.2013 um 05:07 schrieb Ciro A. Soto c...@kavyata.com:

 When I use `` to open a quotation,  I don't get the character for open 
 quotation, instead, I get the two single quotation character. (The closing 
 quotation works fine) 
 Is there any command to fix this? (the problem occurs in english or spanish)
 thank you

Read the answers for this thread: 
http://www.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/2013/074213.html

Wolfgang___
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Re: [NTG-context] open quotation not working

2013-10-13 Thread Wolfgang Schuster

Am 13.10.2013 um 06:09 schrieb Ciro A. Soto c...@kavyata.com:

 sorry, I just saw an old chain of messages about this question... I fixed it 
 with the translation module.
 \usemodule[translate]
 \translateinput[``][“]
 \enableinputtranslation

Better use real quotation marks “ and ” or \quotation{…}.

Wolfgang
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Re: [NTG-context] open quotation not working

2013-10-12 Thread Ciro A. Soto
sorry, I just saw an old chain of messages about this question... I fixed
it with the translation module.
\usemodule[translate]
\translateinput[``][“]
\enableinputtranslation

thank you
Ciro


ciro


Books you should read:

[image: Lead, Follow  Suceed] http://www.kavyata.com/lfs.html  [image:
The Guitar Maker] http://www.kavyata.com/tgm.html  [image: La Vida, El
Amor, La Mujer] http://www.kavyata.com/vam.html
My social profile: [image:
Facebook]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=752641627 [image:
Twitter] http://www.twitter.com/CASotoAguirre


On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 11:07 PM, Ciro A. Soto c...@kavyata.com wrote:

 When I use `` to open a quotation,  I don't get the character for open
 quotation, instead, I get the two single quotation character. (The closing
 quotation works fine)
 Is there any command to fix this? (the problem occurs in english or
 spanish)
 thank you

 ciro


 Books you should read:

 [image: Lead, Follow  Suceed] http://www.kavyata.com/lfs.html  [image:
 The Guitar Maker] http://www.kavyata.com/tgm.html  [image: La Vida, El
 Amor, La Mujer] http://www.kavyata.com/vam.html
 My social profile: [image: 
 Facebook]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=752641627 [image:
 Twitter] http://www.twitter.com/CASotoAguirre

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