Re: [Numpy-discussion] Making numpy sensible: backward compatibility please

2012-10-01 Thread Chris Barker
On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 3:11 PM, Charles R Harris charlesr.har...@gmail.com wrote: If the behaviour is not specified and tested, there is no guarantee that it will continue. This is an open-source project - there is no guarantee of ANYTHING. But that being said, the specification and testing

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Making numpy sensible: backward compatibility please

2012-10-01 Thread Chris Barker
On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 2:16 AM, Gael Varoquaux gael.varoqu...@normalesup.org wrote: Next time I see you, I owe you a beer for making you cross :). If I curse at you, will I get a beer too? -Chris -- Christopher Barker, Ph.D. Oceanographer Emergency Response Division NOAA/NOS/ORR

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Making numpy sensible: backward compatibility please

2012-10-01 Thread Anthony Scopatz
On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 2:32 PM, Chris Barker chris.bar...@noaa.gov wrote: On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 2:16 AM, Gael Varoquaux gael.varoqu...@normalesup.org wrote: Next time I see you, I owe you a beer for making you cross :). If I curse at you, will I get a beer too? Wow! This is taking a

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Making numpy sensible: backward compatibility please

2012-09-30 Thread Gael Varoquaux
On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 03:09:08PM -0700, Ondřej Čertík wrote: Chuck, Gael, here is my todo list for the 1.7.0 release: https://github.com/numpy/numpy/issues/396 I have created issues and mentionned them in the comments on your issue. Cheers, Gaël

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Making numpy sensible: backward compatibility please

2012-09-29 Thread Gael Varoquaux
On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 07:37:35PM -0600, Charles R Harris wrote: +1, I think we should endeavor to have a respectful and welcoming community. With a bit of humour now and then among the old timers, no? Look, I've been outright insulted on the list and I don't recall anyone weighing

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Making numpy sensible: backward compatibility please

2012-09-29 Thread Gael Varoquaux
Hi Nathaniel, First of all, thanks for your investment in numpy. You have really been moving the project forward lately. On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 03:03:01AM +0100, Nathaniel Smith wrote: I have just fixed a fairly nasty bug in scikit-learn that was introduced by change of semantics in

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Making numpy sensible: backward compatibility please

2012-09-29 Thread Ondřej Čertík
On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 2:16 AM, Gael Varoquaux gael.varoqu...@normalesup.org wrote: On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 07:37:35PM -0600, Charles R Harris wrote: +1, I think we should endeavor to have a respectful and welcoming community. With a bit of humour now and then among the old timers,

[Numpy-discussion] Making numpy sensible: backward compatibility please

2012-09-28 Thread Gael Varoquaux
Hi numpy developers, First of all, thanks a lot for the hard work you put in numpy. I know very well that maintaining such a core library is a lot of effort and a service to the community. But with great dedication, comes great responsibility :). I find that Numpy is a bit of a wild horse, a

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Making numpy sensible: backward compatibility please

2012-09-28 Thread Travis Oliphant
Thank you for expressing this voice, Gael.It is an important perspective. The main reason that 1.7 has taken so long to get released is because I'm concerned about these kinds of changes and really want to either remove them or put in adequate warnings prior to moving forward. It's a

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Making numpy sensible: backward compatibility please

2012-09-28 Thread Henry Gomersall
On Fri, 2012-09-28 at 16:43 -0500, Travis Oliphant wrote: I agree that we should be much more cautious about semantic changes in the 1.X series of NumPy.How we handle situations where 1.6 changed things from 1.5 and wasn't reported until now is an open question and depends on the

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Making numpy sensible: backward compatibility please

2012-09-28 Thread Charles R Harris
On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 3:23 PM, Gael Varoquaux gael.varoqu...@normalesup.org wrote: Hi numpy developers, First of all, thanks a lot for the hard work you put in numpy. I know very well that maintaining such a core library is a lot of effort and a service to the community. But with great

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Making numpy sensible: backward compatibility please

2012-09-28 Thread Travis Oliphant
On Sep 28, 2012, at 4:53 PM, Henry Gomersall wrote: On Fri, 2012-09-28 at 16:43 -0500, Travis Oliphant wrote: I agree that we should be much more cautious about semantic changes in the 1.X series of NumPy.How we handle situations where 1.6 changed things from 1.5 and wasn't reported

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Making numpy sensible: backward compatibility please

2012-09-28 Thread Robert Lupton the Good
Gael puts in a plea for backward compatibility; I totally agree. Numpy sometimes goes out of its way to make this hard. For example, when the syntax of histogram were changed you got a nice DepreciationWarning about an option to switch to the new behaviour; great. But a few releases later

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Making numpy sensible: backward compatibility please

2012-09-28 Thread Fernando Perez
On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 3:11 PM, Charles R Harris charlesr.har...@gmail.com wrote: Bitch, bitch, bitch. Look, I know you are pissed and venting a bit, but this problem could have been detected and reported 6 months ago, that is, unless it is new due to development on your end. It would be

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Making numpy sensible: backward compatibility please

2012-09-28 Thread Anthony Scopatz
On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 7:44 PM, Fernando Perez fperez@gmail.comwrote: On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 3:11 PM, Charles R Harris charlesr.har...@gmail.com wrote: Bitch, bitch, bitch. Look, I know you are pissed and venting a bit, but this problem could have been detected and reported 6 months

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Making numpy sensible: backward compatibility please

2012-09-28 Thread Charles R Harris
On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 6:44 PM, Fernando Perez fperez@gmail.comwrote: On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 3:11 PM, Charles R Harris charlesr.har...@gmail.com wrote: Bitch, bitch, bitch. Look, I know you are pissed and venting a bit, but this problem could have been detected and reported 6 months

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Making numpy sensible: backward compatibility please

2012-09-28 Thread Charles R Harris
On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 7:25 PM, Anthony Scopatz scop...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 7:44 PM, Fernando Perez fperez@gmail.comwrote: On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 3:11 PM, Charles R Harris charlesr.har...@gmail.com wrote: Bitch, bitch, bitch. Look, I know you are pissed and

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Making numpy sensible: backward compatibility please

2012-09-28 Thread Nathaniel Smith
On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 10:23 PM, Gael Varoquaux gael.varoqu...@normalesup.org wrote: Hi numpy developers, First of all, thanks a lot for the hard work you put in numpy. I know very well that maintaining such a core library is a lot of effort and a service to the community. But with great

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Making numpy sensible: backward compatibility please

2012-09-28 Thread Travis Oliphant
From a practical standpoint, I believe that people implementing large changes to the numpy codebase, or any other core scipy package, should think really hard about their impact. I do realise that the changes are discussed on the mailing lists, but there is a lot of activity to follow