Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal: add `force=` or `copy=` kwarg to `__array__` interface

2020-04-29 Thread Sebastian Berg
On Wed, 2020-04-29 at 05:26 -0500, Juan Nunez-Iglesias wrote: > Hi everyone, and thank you Ralf for carrying the flag in my absence. > =D > > Sebastian, the *primary* motivation behind avoiding detach() in > PyTorch is listed in original post of the PyTorch issue: > > > People not very familiar

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal: add `force=` or `copy=` kwarg to `__array__` interface

2020-04-29 Thread Ralf Gommers
On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 12:27 PM Juan Nunez-Iglesias wrote: > > > Ralf, you said you don't want warnings — even for sparse arrays? That was > an area of concern for you on the PyTorch discussion side. > Providing a boolean keyword argument and then raising a warning every time anyone uses that

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal: add `force=` or `copy=` kwarg to `__array__` interface

2020-04-29 Thread Juan Nunez-Iglesias
Hi everyone, and thank you Ralf for carrying the flag in my absence. =D Sebastian, the *primary* motivation behind avoiding detach() in PyTorch is listed in original post of the PyTorch issue: > People not very familiar with `requires_grad` and cpu/gpu Tensors might go > back and forth with

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal: add `force=` or `copy=` kwarg to `__array__` interface

2020-04-29 Thread Ralf Gommers
On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 5:03 PM Sebastian Berg wrote: > On Tue, 2020-04-28 at 11:51 +0200, Ralf Gommers wrote: > > > > So arguably, there is no type-safety concern due to `.detach()`. > > > > I'm not sure what the question is here; no one mentioned type-safety. > > The > > PyTorch maintainers

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal: add `force=` or `copy=` kwarg to `__array__` interface

2020-04-28 Thread Sebastian Berg
On Tue, 2020-04-28 at 09:58 -0500, Sebastian Berg wrote: > On Tue, 2020-04-28 at 11:51 +0200, Ralf Gommers wrote: > > > > So arguably, there is no type-safety concern due to `.detach()`. > > > > I'm not sure what the question is here; no one mentioned type- > > safety. > > The > > PyTorch

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal: add `force=` or `copy=` kwarg to `__array__` interface

2020-04-28 Thread Sebastian Berg
On Tue, 2020-04-28 at 11:51 +0200, Ralf Gommers wrote: > > So arguably, there is no type-safety concern due to `.detach()`. > > I'm not sure what the question is here; no one mentioned type-safety. > The > PyTorch maintainers have already said they're fine with adding a > force > keyword. But

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal: add `force=` or `copy=` kwarg to `__array__` interface

2020-04-28 Thread Hameer Abbasi
with this. Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef> From: NumPy-Discussion on behalf of Ralf Gommers Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 11:51:13 AM To: Discussion of Numerical Python Subject: Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal: add `force=` or `copy=` kwarg to `__a

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal: add `force=` or `copy=` kwarg to `__array__` interface

2020-04-28 Thread Ralf Gommers
On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 12:10 AM Sebastian Berg wrote: > On Sat, 2020-04-25 at 10:52 -0700, Stephan Hoyer wrote: > > On Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 10:40 AM Ralf Gommers > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 12:35 PM Eric Wieser < > > > wieser.eric+nu...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > >

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal: add `force=` or `copy=` kwarg to `__array__` interface

2020-04-26 Thread Sebastian Berg
On Sat, 2020-04-25 at 10:52 -0700, Stephan Hoyer wrote: > On Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 10:40 AM Ralf Gommers > > wrote: > > > > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 12:35 PM Eric Wieser < > > wieser.eric+nu...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > Perhaps worth mentioning that we've discussed this sort of API > > >

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal: add `force=` or `copy=` kwarg to `__array__` interface

2020-04-25 Thread Stephan Hoyer
On Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 10:40 AM Ralf Gommers wrote: > > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 12:35 PM Eric Wieser > wrote: > >> Perhaps worth mentioning that we've discussed this sort of API before, in >> https://github.com/numpy/numpy/pull/11897. >> >> Under that proposal, the api would be something

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal: add `force=` or `copy=` kwarg to `__array__` interface

2020-04-25 Thread Ralf Gommers
On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 12:35 PM Eric Wieser wrote: > Perhaps worth mentioning that we've discussed this sort of API before, in > https://github.com/numpy/numpy/pull/11897. > > Under that proposal, the api would be something like: > > * `copy=True` - always copy, like it is today > *

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal: add `force=` or `copy=` kwarg to `__array__` interface

2020-04-24 Thread Sebastian Berg
On Fri, 2020-04-24 at 10:12 -0700, Stephan Hoyer wrote: > On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 6:31 AM Sebastian Berg < > sebast...@sipsolutions.net> > wrote: > > > One thing to note is that `__array__` is actually asked to return a > > copy AFAIK. > > The documentation on __array__ seems to quite limited,

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal: add `force=` or `copy=` kwarg to `__array__` interface

2020-04-24 Thread Stephan Hoyer
On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 6:31 AM Sebastian Berg wrote: > One thing to note is that `__array__` is actually asked to return a > copy AFAIK. The documentation on __array__ seems to quite limited, unfortunately. The most I can find are a few sentences here:

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal: add `force=` or `copy=` kwarg to `__array__` interface

2020-04-24 Thread Sebastian Berg
On Fri, 2020-04-24 at 11:34 +0100, Eric Wieser wrote: > Perhaps worth mentioning that we've discussed this sort of API > before, in > https://github.com/numpy/numpy/pull/11897. > > Under that proposal, the api would be something like: > > * `copy=True` - always copy, like it is today > *

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal: add `force=` or `copy=` kwarg to `__array__` interface

2020-04-24 Thread Eric Wieser
Perhaps worth mentioning that we've discussed this sort of API before, in https://github.com/numpy/numpy/pull/11897. Under that proposal, the api would be something like: * `copy=True` - always copy, like it is today * `copy=False` - copy if needed, like it is today * `copy=np.never_copy` -

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal: add `force=` or `copy=` kwarg to `__array__` interface

2020-04-23 Thread Juan Nunez-Iglesias
Hi everyone, > One bit of expressivity we would miss is “copy if necessary, but otherwise > don’t bother”, but there are workarounds to this. After a side discussion with Stéfan van der Walt, we came up with `allow_copy=True`, which would express to the downstream library that we don’t mind

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal: add `force=` or `copy=` kwarg to `__array__` interface

2020-04-21 Thread Charles R Harris
On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 1:07 AM Juan Nunez-Iglesias wrote: > Hello NumPy-ers! > > The __array__ method is a great little tool to allow interoperability with > NumPy. Briefly, calling `np.array()` or `np.asarray()` on an object with an > `__array__` method, one can get a NumPy representation of