[nysbirds-l] BirdCallsRadio - For The Record; Legacy Interview: Helen Hays

[Mardi Dickinson]

Birders et al,

Thought many of you would be interested in a new series. For The Record; Legacy 
Interviews: with our Sixth guest Helen Hays http://birdcallsradio.com/ 


Cheers,
Mardi Dickinson
Norwalk, CT
KymryGroup™  
BirdCallsRadio™ 
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Re:[nysbirds-l] Mtn bluebird CONTINUES Tues 12-19

[Arie Gilbert]

  
  
I just got a report that the bird is being seen now @ 11:14am

These directions may be better if you are unable to use the map
links below.

from the Northwest corner of the Robert Moses field 2 lot, walk to
the paved roadway and continue west onto the sand road ( by foot,
permit access only!) 

continue west. you will see the roadway fork, with a sharp left turn
- but **continue STRAIGHT** along bay side.
after walking **way down** past the open area to your right that is
fenced off by string, 
the road will jog left for ~75', then jog right (west) now you will
be separated from the bay side by thick bayberry bushes - continue
on. you will see a "grey telephone pole like stump" along the
left/south edge. I also scraped an arrow in the sand  some 50' +/-
to the west of that,  the bird has been seen in this area ( on south
side ) and delightfully, frequently perches at the very top of the
trees along the edge of the road. 

HTH

Arie Gilbert 
North Babylon, NY

WWW.Powerbirder.blogspot.com 
 WWW.qcbirdclub.org 

Where's That Bird? Maps to Local Birding Hotspots! 
http://www.qcbirdclub.org/birding-site-maps  



On 12/18/2017 9:20 AM, Arie Gilbert
  wrote:


  .
Its probably a bit more than 10 min walk. 
viewed from this location at 9.17am on 12-18-2017
  Found with aid if Mike McBrien
  Right along sand  road in junipers. 
  See map below. 
  http://maps.google.com/maps?q=40.62659634,-73.29798589
  40.62659634,-73.29798589
  Arie Gilbert 
No. Babylon NY 
www.powerbirder.blogspot 
www.qcbirdclub.org
  
--
  Sent from Loretta IV in the field
  


  

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[nysbirds-l] Robert Moses SP, Suffolk County, Mt. Bluebird Yes

[suefeustel]

Last seen at 9:45 AM flying northeast over Fire Island Inlet. Seen in same 
location feeding in Red Cedar trees.

Sent from my iPhone

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Re:[nysbirds-l] Bryant Park Woodcock - yes

[Home]

Spotted same place early this morning

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 18, 2017, at 3:14 PM, Home  wrote:
> 
> Couldn’t find it in yesterday’s CBC with Gabriel Willow but it re-emerged- 
> actively foraging in the open along the southeast edge allowing passersby on 
> 40th Street to take photos inches away.  At one point it appeared to have its 
> beak stuck for almost a minute until it pulled out a fat 8 inch worm.
> 
> Also- a Yellow-bellied Sapsucker and Song Sparrow.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone


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[nysbirds-l] Top 10 Locations: Greene County (NYS eBird Hotspots)

[Ben Cacace]

Location pages have been created for the current top 10 sites for Greene
County based on total species seen. Numbers in parentheses represents the #
of sub-locations for these sites.

If you spot any issues with the pages please let me know off list.

Also, could you help verify that the '*Directions*' link on the location
pages points to a nearby public parking spot or to an entrance to the site?
See below for details on Google Map links to directions. Thanks!

Total # of shared locations (hotspots) added to 10 new pages is 11 bringing
the total coverage to 1,723 hotspots or 28.8% of 5,984 for New York State.

*Greene County *
• Coxsackie Flats (2)
• Coxsackie Boat Launch
• Coxsackie Creek Grassland Preserve
• Dutchman's Landing
• Four Mile Point Preserve
• Hannacroix Creek Preserve
• Inbocht Bay
• North-South Lake Campground
• RamsHorn-Livingston Sanctuary
• Vosburgh Swamp WMA--Vosburgh Swamp

*Google Map Directions*
The 'Google Map Directions' link on the wiki are linked to a nearby parking
lot or near the south or east end of the location based on the thinking
that keeping sun behind you when starting out is best.

If you know of a better parking place please zoom in on this location on
Google Maps and send the URL to me offline.
-- 
Ben Cacace
Manhattan, NYC
Wiki for NYS eBird Hotspots

Facebook Discussion for NYS eBird Hotspots: Q & A


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Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[Deborah Allen]

The European Goldfinches should be entered into ebird, especially if there is any evidence of breeding, so their populations can be monitored.Deb Allen-Original Message-
From: nathan o'reilly 
Sent: Dec 19, 2017 4:55 AM
To: Ben Cacace 
Cc: NYSBIRDS-L , eBirds NYC 
Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)






Prospect Park/Brooklyn birders: Have any of you seen them more recently and do you enter the European Goldfinch  into ebird when you see them? I know some birders do not consider them "wild" so they do not report them to ebird. 

Cool sightings for Gov Island though. It is unfortunate to be closed off to the public over the winter. 


Nate



Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 19, 2017, at 4:48 AM, Ben Cacace  wrote:






Unfortunately the island is closed to the public until May 1st but I was very lucky to get invited to the island yesterday.







There was a small flock of European Goldfinch in Hammock Grove of ~12 birds and a small group of 5 (same birds?) seen off Nolan Park later in the
 day.






I was looking into European Goldfinch sightings on eBird and the most recent one in the area is from Prospect Park on Nov 26th of one bird. The only
 sightings "locally" are from Bermuda and points north of Chicago. The number of individuals from the Lake Michigan group are no higher than 8 individuals for sightings between Nov-Dec of this year.







European Goldfinch: Current Year Map for Nov-Dec


•
https://tinyurl.com/y7yg59yx


... zoom out to view sightings from Bermuda.






Is the most likely explanation that these are a new set of escaped birds? Or could the weather have had an effect on local populations? They understood
 Sweetgums as a food source and the birds were very vocal. How quickly do newly escaped birds take to Sweetgum Trees?






You can see photos on Cathy Weiner's eBird checklist:


•
http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist/S41179158






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Manhattan, NYC
Wiki for NYS eBird Hotspots
Facebook Discussion for NYS eBird Hotspots: Q & A





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Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[brian . whipple]

I’m 95% sure that European Goldfinches (like Budgies) won’t show up on
anyone’s eBird NY State life list even if you keep the species in your
regular checklists. eBird knows what to count/not count in that respect.

On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 12:38 PM Deborah Allen 
wrote:

> The European Goldfinches should be entered into ebird, especially if there
> is any evidence of breeding, so their populations can be monitored.
>
> Deb Allen
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: nathan o'reilly
> Sent: Dec 19, 2017 4:55 AM
> To: Ben Cacace
> Cc: NYSBIRDS-L , eBirds NYC
> Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock
> (18-Dec)
>
> Prospect Park/Brooklyn birders: Have any of you seen them more recently
> and do you enter the European Goldfinch  into ebird when you see them? I
> know some birders do not consider them "wild" so they do not report them to
> ebird.
>
> Cool sightings for Gov Island though. It is unfortunate to be closed off
> to the public over the winter.
>
> Nate
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 19, 2017, at 4:48 AM, Ben Cacace  wrote:
>
> Unfortunately the island is closed to the public until May 1st but I was
> very lucky to get invited to the island yesterday.
>
> There was a small flock of European Goldfinch in Hammock Grove of ~12
> birds and a small group of 5 (same birds?) seen off Nolan Park later in the
> day.
>
> I was looking into European Goldfinch sightings on eBird and the most
> recent one in the area is from Prospect Park on Nov 26th of one bird. The
> only sightings "locally" are from Bermuda and points north of Chicago. The
> number of individuals from the Lake Michigan group are no higher than 8
> individuals for sightings between Nov-Dec of this year.
>
> European Goldfinch: Current Year Map for Nov-Dec
> • https://tinyurl.com/y7yg59yx
> ... zoom out to view sightings from Bermuda.
>
> Is the most likely explanation that these are a new set of escaped birds?
> Or could the weather have had an effect on local populations? They
> understood Sweetgums as a food source and the birds were very vocal. How
> quickly do newly escaped birds take to Sweetgum Trees?
>
> You can see photos on Cathy Weiner's eBird checklist:
> • http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist/S41179158
>
> --
> Ben Cacace
> Manhattan, NYC
> Wiki for NYS eBird Hotspots
> 
> Facebook Discussion for NYS eBird Hotspots: Q & A
> 
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Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[nathan o'reilly]

Although some species do not have a Domestic option like the Yellow-fronted 
Canaries I've had a couple times in Manhattan and told by an ebird reviewed to 
add them. I hope to rectify my life list by getting them in the wild this 
summer.

Seems like most people don't know this about the Domestic option for the 
Muscovy Ducks in CP.

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 19, 2017, at 1:31 PM, David Barrett 
> wrote:

The proper way to enter escaped exotics on eBird lists is to select the 
domestic version. For example, if you search eBird for Budgerigar you will also 
get Budgerigar (Domestic). Choose the latter.

David Barrett
Manhattan

On Dec 19, 2017 1:16 PM, 
> wrote:
The umpteen responses I’ve gotten to the contrary are why I hedged my sureness.

Does anyone know the proper protocol for entering escapees on checklists 
(benefitting science) without having them inaccurately show up on lifelists 
(benefitting type-A listers)?

Also, I know some of my Central Park checklists include Budgies, but there’s no 
Budgie on my NYS life list, so I must have done something right.

Thanks!

On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 12:47 PM 
> wrote:
I’m 95% sure that European Goldfinches (like Budgies) won’t show up on anyone’s 
eBird NY State life list even if you keep the species in your regular 
checklists. eBird knows what to count/not count in that respect.

On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 12:38 PM Deborah Allen 
> wrote:
The European Goldfinches should be entered into ebird, especially if there is 
any evidence of breeding, so their populations can be monitored.

Deb Allen


-Original Message-
From: nathan o'reilly
Sent: Dec 19, 2017 4:55 AM
To: Ben Cacace
Cc: NYSBIRDS-L , eBirds NYC
Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

Prospect Park/Brooklyn birders: Have any of you seen them more recently and do 
you enter the European Goldfinch  into ebird when you see them? I know some 
birders do not consider them "wild" so they do not report them to ebird.

Cool sightings for Gov Island though. It is unfortunate to be closed off to the 
public over the winter.

Nate


Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 19, 2017, at 4:48 AM, Ben Cacace 
> wrote:

Unfortunately the island is closed to the public until May 1st but I was very 
lucky to get invited to the island yesterday.

There was a small flock of European Goldfinch in Hammock Grove of ~12 birds and 
a small group of 5 (same birds?) seen off Nolan Park later in the day.

I was looking into European Goldfinch sightings on eBird and the most recent 
one in the area is from Prospect Park on Nov 26th of one bird. The only 
sightings "locally" are from Bermuda and points north of Chicago. The number of 
individuals from the Lake Michigan group are no higher than 8 individuals for 
sightings between Nov-Dec of this year.

European Goldfinch: Current Year Map for Nov-Dec
• https://tinyurl.com/y7yg59yx
... zoom out to view sightings from Bermuda.

Is the most likely explanation that these are a new set of escaped birds? Or 
could the weather have had an effect on local populations? They understood 
Sweetgums as a food source and the birds were very vocal. How quickly do newly 
escaped birds take to Sweetgum Trees?

You can see photos on Cathy Weiner's eBird checklist:
• http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist/S41179158

--
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Manhattan, NYC
Wiki for NYS eBird 
Hotspots
Facebook Discussion for NYS eBird Hotspots: Q & 
A
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Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[David Barrett]

There is a simple solution that will satisfy the "report everything"
contingent and still keep your eBird list free of canaries: create another
free eBird account for this (and perhaps other) purposes.

Have this account opt out of the Top Birders list and possibly also out of
Rare Bird Alert reporting. You can easily move the small number of
observations of exotics from your regular account (that do not have
domestic versions to which you can switch) to this other one if you already
have them -- just enter them on the new account and delete them from the
old one.

There might be some debate as to how the European Goldfinch should be
treated. It has been in the United States (and New York State) since the
19th century, though not continuously.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/4078260?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

It has been observed to be nesting in the midwest since 2006:

http://ebird.org/content/atlaswi/news/species-survey-strategy-recently-introduced-european-songbirds/

I have raised the issue of having eBird use the state ABA list for managing
what is eligible for county and state eBird lists, but this is not a
short-term priority so do not expect the policy to change any time soon.
You need to manage your eBird list yourself.

David Barrett
Manhattan

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Re: [nysbirds-l] OCWA or MGWA

[Arie Gilbert]

  
  
Cesar,

You very admirably reiterated "THE LAW OF INDIRECT OBSERVATION".

See the "universal laws of birding" on the Queens county Bird Club's
web page.

http://www.qcbirdclub.org/the-universal-laws

and FWIW on first sight I thought MGWA too...

Arie Gilbert 
North Babylon, NY

WWW.Powerbirder.blogspot.com 
 WWW.qcbirdclub.org 

Where's That Bird? Maps to Local Birding Hotspots! 
http://www.qcbirdclub.org/birding-site-maps  



On 12/19/2017 4:28 PM, Cesar Castillo
  wrote:


  

  
Ok, great to learn so much on a more familiar species. 
  Thanks for all the help and clarification!
I learned more about Orange-crowned Warblers in this
  one week when I thought it might be a MGWA, than in all
  the years I have been seeing them with no doubt in my mind
  as to what they were.  Ironic.


César 
  
  
  

  Una tarde la princesa  vio una estrella aparecer;  la princesa era traviesa  y la quiso ir a coger.  
La quería para hacerla  decorar un prendedor,  con un verso y una perla,  una pluma y una flor.  
Las princesas primorosas  se parecen mucho a ti;  cortan lirios, cortan rosas,  cortan astros. Son así.


-A
Margarita Debayle (To Margarita Debayle) by Ruben
Dario

  
  
  
  
  


  
 On Tuesday, December 19, 2017, 4:20:18 PM EST, Anders
  Peltomaa  wrote: 





  

  
Hi Cesar,
Thanks for sharing the photos.
Interesting bird. When I saw the photos I
  thought OCWA, because of the structure and overall
  feeling I got.
Great find and save for your CBC Count.


Anders Peltomaa


  
On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 1:46 PM Cesar
  Castillo 
  wrote:


  

  
Dear All,


I have posted the original images
  on flicker.  I have not messed with
  the photos except in increasing their
  sharpness.  I can see how this could
  be an orange-crowned warbler, however
  I remember seeing a grey hood that
  extended quite a bit, Carry Laben and
  I immediately thought Mourning W until
  we looked at the photos and thought
  MacGillivray's.  Memory is fickle
  though when it comes to details, I
  don't tend to just trust mine without
  evidence.  The hood, if it is real is
  most notable in the 2nd and 7th link
  below.  


Thank you all, it's too bad no one
  else has been able to see it.  I
  attempted to find it on Monday
  morning, but there was active
  construction in the location where it
  was found, and most of the snow in the
  park had melted, giving this bird and
  all the other birds found in the same
  spot ample opportunity to find food
  elsewhere. 


OCWA or MGWA





  

  
 

Re: [ebirdsnyc] Re: [nysbirds-l] OCWA or MGWA

[Shane Blodgett]

Thanks for sharing Cesar. Goes to show what a difference the original photos 
can make as I was in the MAGW camp based on the back of the camera shots.

Shane

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 19, 2017, at 5:35 PM, Arie Gilbert ariegilb...@optonline.net 
> [ebirdsnyc]  wrote:
> 
> Cesar,
> 
> You very admirably reiterated "THE LAW OF INDIRECT OBSERVATION".
> 
> See the "universal laws of birding" on the Queens county Bird Club's web page.
> 
> http://www.qcbirdclub.org/the-universal-laws
> 
> and FWIW on first sight I thought MGWA too...
> 
> Arie Gilbert 
> North Babylon, NY
> 
> WWW.Powerbirder.blogspot.com 
>  WWW.qcbirdclub.org 
> 
> Where's That Bird? Maps to Local Birding Hotspots! 
> http://www.qcbirdclub.org/birding-site-maps  
> 
> 
> 
>> On 12/19/2017 4:28 PM, Cesar Castillo wrote:
>> Ok, great to learn so much on a more familiar species.  Thanks for all the 
>> help and clarification!
>> I learned more about Orange-crowned Warblers in this one week when I thought 
>> it might be a MGWA, than in all the years I have been seeing them with no 
>> doubt in my mind as to what they were.  Ironic.
>> 
>> César 
>> 
>> Una tarde la princesa  vio una estrella aparecer;  la princesa era traviesa  
>> y la quiso ir a coger.  
>> La quería para hacerla  decorar un prendedor,  con un verso y una perla,  
>> una pluma y una flor.  
>> Las princesas primorosas  se parecen mucho a ti;  cortan lirios, cortan 
>> rosas,  cortan astros. Son así.
>> -A Margarita Debayle (To Margarita Debayle) by Ruben Dario
>> 
>> 
>> On Tuesday, December 19, 2017, 4:20:18 PM EST, Anders Peltomaa 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Cesar,
>> Thanks for sharing the photos.
>> Interesting bird. When I saw the photos I thought OCWA, because of the 
>> structure and overall feeling I got.
>> Great find and save for your CBC Count.
>> 
>> Anders Peltomaa
>> 
>> On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 1:46 PM Cesar Castillo  wrote:
>> Dear All,
>> 
>> I have posted the original images on flicker.  I have not messed with the 
>> photos except in increasing their sharpness.  I can see how this could be an 
>> orange-crowned warbler, however I remember seeing a grey hood that extended 
>> quite a bit, Carry Laben and I immediately thought Mourning W until  
>>  we looked at the photos and thought MacGillivray's. 
>>  Memory is fickle though when it comes to details, I don't tend to just 
>> trust mine without evidence.  The hood, if it is real is most notable in the 
>> 2nd and 7th link below.  
>> 
>> Thank you all, it's too bad no one else has been able to see it.  I 
>> attempted to find it on Monday morning, but there was active construction in 
>> the location where it was found, and most of the snow in the park had 
>> melted, giving this bird and all the other birds found in the same spot 
>> ample opportunity to find food elsewhere. 
>> 
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
>> 
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
>> 
>> 
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
>> 
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
>> 
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
>> 
>> 
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
>> 
>> 
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
>> 
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> César 
>> 
>> Una tarde la princesa  vio una estrella aparecer;  la princesa era traviesa  
>> y la quiso ir a coger.  
>> La quería para hacerla  decorar un prendedor,  con un verso y una perla,  
>> una pluma y una flor.  
>> Las princesas primorosas  se parecen mucho a ti;  cortan lirios, cortan 
>> rosas,  cortan astros. Son así.
>> -A Margarita Debayle (To Margarita Debayle) by Ruben Dario
>> --
>> NYSbirds-L List Info:
>> Welcome and Basics
>> Rules and Information
>> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
>> Archives:
>> The Mail Archive
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>> ABA
>> Please submit your observations to eBird!
>> --
>> --
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>> Welcome and Basics
>> Rules and Information
>> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
>> Archives:
>> The Mail Archive
>> Surfbirds
>> ABA
>> Please 

Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[Dominic Garcia-Hall]

I believe they don’t count on county/state lists or users' lists, even if
you report them as regular species taxa (or if they don't have a domestic
designation in the first place). If you tick a Black Swan in Australia,
you'll see your list go up by one. If you tick it in NJ, you won't, even if
you enter it without the feral/domestic moniker.
The eBird algorithm 'decides' where it's apprpriate from a listing
perspective. At least that was my understanding I might be wrong.

*Dominic Garcia-Hall*

*www.antbirds.com *

*NY  +1 917 740 1945*
*UK  +44 161 408 4002*

On Tue, 19 Dec 2017 at 18:53, nathan o'reilly  wrote:

> And I believe that is why the ebird reviewers ask you to include them.
> That way they can get an idea of what other species are out there competing
> for food and habitat.
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 19, 2017, at 1:50 PM, Angus Wilson 
> wrote:
>
> For European Goldfinch I suspect 'domesticated' isn't an option. Same for
> other known or presumed escapes or deliberate releases that occur with
> regularity in NYS (e.g. Chukar and various non-domesticated waterfowl).
> Personally, I think tracking these potential colonizers is important and
> interesting. Simply invalidating them or discouraging reporting isn't a
> good solution. Issues with list purity can be a separate conversation,
> decoupled from the scientific uses of this information.
>
> Angus Wilson
> New York City, NY
> --
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Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[John Laver]

"Personally, I think tracking these potential colonizers is important and
interesting. Simply invalidating them or discouraging reporting isn't a
good solution."

Agreed, particularly as range flux is likely to accelerate in ways we'll
need to observe and measure as climate changes take hold.  We need to think
about the Big Picture.

John Laver
Manhattan

On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 1:50 PM, Angus Wilson 
wrote:

> For European Goldfinch I suspect 'domesticated' isn't an option. Same for
> other known or presumed escapes or deliberate releases that occur with
> regularity in NYS (e.g. Chukar and various non-domesticated waterfowl).
> Personally, I think tracking these potential colonizers is important and
> interesting. Simply invalidating them or discouraging reporting isn't a
> good solution. Issues with list purity can be a separate conversation,
> decoupled from the scientific uses of this information.
>
> Angus Wilson
> New York City, NY
> --
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> 
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>



-- 
*John L*

*You could not step twice into the same river.*

*Heraclitus of Ephesus*

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Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[Andrew Baksh]

I agree, it is important to track these birds. Especially as it seems they have 
adapted quite well and are spreading. Perhaps, we will see them expand like the 
Monk Parakeets.

I had an encounter with the said species this year at Bush Terminal Piers Park, 
in October. A total of 4 birds with no bands and they acted like true migrant 
birds on the move.

Since we are on the topic of scientific uses of our field efforts. I would like 
to see the eBird "think tank" devise a way to track feral cat populations at 
hotspots. We might find that data to be useful in helping understand the 
decline in numbers of birds and other wildlife at these sites and could be used 
down the road in getting colonies removed.

I have been doing just that for many of my sites I tend to cover. But that, is 
another conversation for another time. Carry on then.

Cheers,

"I prefer to be true to myself, even at the hazard of incurring the ridicule of 
others, rather than to be false, and to incur my own abhorrence." ~ Frederick 
Douglass

風　Swift as the wind
林　Quiet as the forest
火　Conquer like the fire
山　Steady as the mountain
Sun Tzu  The Art of War

> (\__/)
> (= '.'=)
> (") _ (") 
> Sent from somewhere in the field using my mobile device! 

Andrew Baksh
www.birdingdude.blogspot.com

> On Dec 19, 2017, at 1:50 PM, Angus Wilson  wrote:
> 
> For European Goldfinch I suspect 'domesticated' isn't an option. Same for 
> other known or presumed escapes or deliberate releases that occur with 
> regularity in NYS (e.g. Chukar and various non-domesticated waterfowl). 
> Personally, I think tracking these potential colonizers is important and 
> interesting. Simply invalidating them or discouraging reporting isn't a good 
> solution. Issues with list purity can be a separate conversation, decoupled 
> from the scientific uses of this information.
> 
> Angus Wilson
> New York City, NY
> --
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Re: [nysbirds-l] OCWA or MGWA

[Anders Peltomaa]

Hi Cesar,
Thanks for sharing the photos.
Interesting bird. When I saw the photos I thought OCWA, because of the
structure and overall feeling I got.
Great find and save for your CBC Count.

Anders Peltomaa

On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 1:46 PM Cesar Castillo  wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> I have posted the original images on flicker.  I have not messed with the
> photos except in increasing their sharpness.  I can see how this could be
> an orange-crowned warbler, however I remember seeing a grey hood that
> extended quite a bit, Carry Laben and I immediately thought Mourning W
> until we looked at the photos and thought MacGillivray's.  Memory is fickle
> though when it comes to details, I don't tend to just trust mine without
> evidence.  The hood, if it is real is most notable in the 2nd and 7th link
> below.
>
> Thank you all, it's too bad no one else has been able to see it.  I
> attempted to find it on Monday morning, but there was active construction
> in the location where it was found, and most of the snow in the park had
> melted, giving this bird and all the other birds found in the same spot
> ample opportunity to find food elsewhere.
>
> OCWA or MGWA
> 
>
> OCWA or MGWA
>
> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA
> 12/17/2017
>
> 
>
>
>
>
> OCWA or MGWA
>
> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA
> 12/17/2017
>
> 
>
> OCWA or MGWA
> 
>
> OCWA or MGWA
>
> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA
> 12/17/2017
>
> 
>
>
> OCWA or MGWA
> 
>
> OCWA or MGWA
>
> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA
> 12/17/2017
>
> 
>
> OCWA or MGWA
> 
>
> OCWA or MGWA
>
> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA
> 12/17/2017
>
> 
>
> OCWA or MGWA
> 
>
> OCWA or MGWA
>
> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA
> 12/17/2017
>
> 
>
>
> OCWA or MGWA
> 
>
> OCWA or MGWA
>
> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA
> 12/17/2017
>
> 
>
>
> OCWA or MGWA
> 
>
> OCWA or MGWA
>
> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA
> 12/17/2017
>
> 
>
> OCWA or MGWA
> 
>
> OCWA or MGWA
>
> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA
> 12/17/2017
>
> 
>
>
>
> César
>
> Una tarde la princesa  vio una estrella aparecer;  la princesa era
> traviesa  y la quiso ir a coger.
> La quería para hacerla  decorar un prendedor,  con un verso y una perla,  una
> pluma y una flor.
> Las princesas primorosas  se parecen mucho a ti;  cortan lirios, cortan
> rosas,  cortan astros. Son así.
> -*A Margarita Debayle (To Margarita Debayle) by Ruben Dario*
> --
> *NYSbirds-L List Info:*
> Welcome and Basics 
> Rules and Information 
> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
> 
> *Archives:*
> The Mail Archive
> 
> Surfbirds 
> ABA 
> *Please submit your observations to **eBird*
> *!*
> --
>

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3) 

Re: [nysbirds-l] OCWA or MGWA

[Cesar Castillo]

Ok, great to learn so much on a more familiar species.  Thanks for all the help 
and clarification!I learned more about Orange-crowned Warblers in this one week 
when I thought it might be a MGWA, than in all the years I have been seeing 
them with no doubt in my mind as to what they were.  Ironic.
César 
Una tarde la princesa  vio una estrella aparecer;  la princesa era traviesa  y 
la quiso ir a coger.  
La quería para hacerla  decorar un prendedor,  con un verso y una perla,  una 
pluma y una flor.  
Las princesas primorosas  se parecen mucho a ti;  cortan lirios, cortan rosas,  
cortan astros. Son así.
-A Margarita Debayle (To Margarita Debayle) by Ruben Dario 

On Tuesday, December 19, 2017, 4:20:18 PM EST, Anders Peltomaa 
 wrote:  
 
 Hi Cesar,Thanks for sharing the photos.Interesting bird. When I saw the photos 
I thought OCWA, because of the structure and overall feeling I got.Great find 
and save for your CBC Count.
Anders Peltomaa
On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 1:46 PM Cesar Castillo  wrote:

Dear All,
I have posted the original images on flicker.  I have not messed with the 
photos except in increasing their sharpness.  I can see how this could be an 
orange-crowned warbler, however I remember seeing a grey hood that extended 
quite a bit, Carry Laben and I immediately thought Mourning W until we looked 
at the photos and thought MacGillivray's.  Memory is fickle though when it 
comes to details, I don't tend to just trust mine without evidence.  The hood, 
if it is real is most notable in the 2nd and 7th link below.  
Thank you all, it's too bad no one else has been able to see it.  I attempted 
to find it on Monday morning, but there was active construction in the location 
where it was found, and most of the snow in the park had melted, giving this 
bird and all the other birds found in the same spot ample opportunity to find 
food elsewhere. 
OCWA or MGWA


| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
 |

 |

 |






| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
 |

 |

 |


OCWA or MGWA


| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
 |

 |

 |



OCWA or MGWA


| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
 |

 |

 |


OCWA or MGWA


| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
 |

 |

 |


OCWA or MGWA


| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
 |

 |

 |



OCWA or MGWA


| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
 |

 |

 |



OCWA or MGWA


| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
 |

 |

 |


OCWA or MGWA


| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
 |

 |

 |




César 
Una tarde la princesa  vio una estrella aparecer;  la princesa era traviesa  y 
la quiso ir a coger.  
La quería para hacerla  decorar un prendedor,  con un verso y una perla,  una 
pluma y una flor.  
Las princesas primorosas  se parecen mucho a ti;  cortan lirios, cortan rosas,  
cortan astros. Son así.
-A Margarita Debayle (To Margarita Debayle) by Ruben Dario --  NYSbirds-L List 
Info:  Welcome and Basics   Rules and Information   Subscribe, Configuration 
and Leave  Archives:  The Mail Archive  Surfbirds  ABA  Please submit your 
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Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[David Barrett]

The proper way to enter escaped exotics on eBird lists is to select the
domestic version. For example, if you search eBird for Budgerigar you will
also get Budgerigar (Domestic). Choose the latter.

David Barrett
Manhattan

On Dec 19, 2017 1:16 PM,  wrote:

> The umpteen responses I’ve gotten to the contrary are why I hedged my
> sureness.
>
> Does anyone know the proper protocol for entering escapees on checklists
> (benefitting science) without having them inaccurately show up on lifelists
> (benefitting type-A listers)?
>
> Also, I know some of my Central Park checklists include Budgies, but
> there’s no Budgie on my NYS life list, so I must have done something right.
>
> Thanks!
>
> On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 12:47 PM  wrote:
>
>> I’m 95% sure that European Goldfinches (like Budgies) won’t show up on
>> anyone’s eBird NY State life list even if you keep the species in your
>> regular checklists. eBird knows what to count/not count in that respect.
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 12:38 PM Deborah Allen 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The European Goldfinches should be entered into ebird, especially if
>>> there is any evidence of breeding, so their populations can be monitored.
>>>
>>> Deb Allen
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: nathan o'reilly
>>> Sent: Dec 19, 2017 4:55 AM
>>> To: Ben Cacace
>>> Cc: NYSBIRDS-L , eBirds NYC
>>> Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock
>>> (18-Dec)
>>>
>>> Prospect Park/Brooklyn birders: Have any of you seen them more recently
>>> and do you enter the European Goldfinch  into ebird when you see them? I
>>> know some birders do not consider them "wild" so they do not report them to
>>> ebird.
>>>
>>> Cool sightings for Gov Island though. It is unfortunate to be closed off
>>> to the public over the winter.
>>>
>>> Nate
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Dec 19, 2017, at 4:48 AM, Ben Cacace  wrote:
>>>
>>> Unfortunately the island is closed to the public until May 1st but I was
>>> very lucky to get invited to the island yesterday.
>>>
>>> There was a small flock of European Goldfinch in Hammock Grove of ~12
>>> birds and a small group of 5 (same birds?) seen off Nolan Park later in the
>>> day.
>>>
>>> I was looking into European Goldfinch sightings on eBird and the most
>>> recent one in the area is from Prospect Park on Nov 26th of one bird. The
>>> only sightings "locally" are from Bermuda and points north of Chicago. The
>>> number of individuals from the Lake Michigan group are no higher than 8
>>> individuals for sightings between Nov-Dec of this year.
>>>
>>> European Goldfinch: Current Year Map for Nov-Dec
>>> • https://tinyurl.com/y7yg59yx
>>> ... zoom out to view sightings from Bermuda.
>>>
>>> Is the most likely explanation that these are a new set of escaped
>>> birds? Or could the weather have had an effect on local populations? They
>>> understood Sweetgums as a food source and the birds were very vocal. How
>>> quickly do newly escaped birds take to Sweetgum Trees?
>>>
>>> You can see photos on Cathy Weiner's eBird checklist:
>>> • http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist/S41179158
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ben Cacace
>>> Manhattan, NYC
>>> Wiki for NYS eBird Hotspots
>>> 
>>> Facebook Discussion for NYS eBird Hotspots: Q & A
>>> 
>>> --
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>>> 

RE: [nysbirds-l] OCWA or MGWA

[Shaibal Mitra]

Hi Cesar and all,

Very cool-looking bird!

I think its overall shape (and particularly its very finely pointed bill) and 
manners suggest Orange-crowned Warbler. I also think that a MacGillivray's 
Warbler would show a thicker, blacker loral stripe.

Finally, the whitish edges to the tips of the primaries are a typical feature 
of Orange-crowned Warbler, and one that I can't recall seeing on things like 
Mourning Warbler or Common Yellowthroat, whcih MacGillivray's would be expected 
to resemble.

Shai Mitra
Bay Shore

From: bounce-122143179-11143...@list.cornell.edu 
[bounce-122143179-11143...@list.cornell.edu] on behalf of Cesar Castillo 
[czar3...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 1:46 PM
To: EBirds NYC; NYSBIRDS-L
Subject: [nysbirds-l] OCWA or MGWA

Dear All,

I have posted the original images on flicker.  I have not messed with the 
photos except in increasing their sharpness.  I can see how this could be an 
orange-crowned warbler, however I remember seeing a grey hood that extended 
quite a bit, Carry Laben and I immediately thought Mourning W until we looked 
at the photos and thought MacGillivray's.  Memory is fickle though when it 
comes to details, I don't tend to just trust mine without evidence.  The hood, 
if it is real is most notable in the 2nd and 7th link below.

Thank you all, it's too bad no one else has been able to see it.  I attempted 
to find it on Monday morning, but there was active construction in the location 
where it was found, and most of the snow in the park had melted, giving this 
bird and all the other birds found in the same spot ample opportunity to find 
food elsewhere.

OCWA or 
MGWA






[https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017












[https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017




OCWA or 
MGWA






[https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017





OCWA or 
MGWA






[https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017




OCWA or 
MGWA






[https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017




OCWA or 
MGWA






[https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017





OCWA or 
MGWA






[https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017





OCWA or 
MGWA






[https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017




OCWA or 
MGWA






[https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017






César

Una tarde la princesa  vio una estrella aparecer;  la princesa era traviesa  y 
la quiso ir a coger.
La quería para hacerla  decorar un prendedor,  con un verso y una perla,  una 
pluma y una flor.
Las princesas primorosas  se parecen mucho a ti;  cortan lirios, cortan rosas,  
cortan astros. Son así.
-A Margarita Debayle (To 

Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[Michael Schrimpf]

Hi all,

Just to add a bit more context:

There have been many in-depth discussions on this topic among the eBird
reviewers, and the folks at Cornell acknowledge that this is an issue they
wish to tackle soon. In one of his recent responses to our reviewer
listserv, Marshall Iliff indicated that addressing this is a priority for
them, so I imagine we should have additional tools soon (perhaps in the
next year), presumably impacting what shows up in the public output, and
likely including some user-options for what to count and what not to count
on our own personal lists.

The current recommendation is to report any live, wild birds, including
introduced birds (see the bottom of this help page):
http://help.ebird.org/customer/en/portal/articles/973921-what-data-are-appropriate-

In many places some of those introduced birds will become 'invalidated' by
the reviewers, meaning they won't show up in public output (but will still
show up on your lists), while other established species will show up on
public maps. The important thing is that regardless of review status, those
records are still in the database, and if/when they become important to
monitor the community will still have access to those records. Some of that
process may change once eBird Central invents new tools to deal with the
data.

Many (but not all) exotics are also 'domestic' types, by which eBird means
"distinctly-plumaged domesticated varieties that may be free-flying".
Locally this includes things like Budgerigar, 'Swedish' Mallards, etc.
There are normally separate taxonomic categories for those birds with the
words (Domestic type) in parenthesis. These should only be used for birds
that are identifiable as a domestic variety. These domestic varieties
currently don't show up on lists. More info on that category can be found
on this help page:
http://help.ebird.org/customer/en/portal/articles/1006825-the-ebird-taxonomy?b_id=1928

Michael Schrimpf
Suffolk Cty
eBird reviewer for the high seas and Antarctica


On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 1:16 PM,  wrote:

> The umpteen responses I’ve gotten to the contrary are why I hedged my
> sureness.
>
> Does anyone know the proper protocol for entering escapees on checklists
> (benefitting science) without having them inaccurately show up on lifelists
> (benefitting type-A listers)?
>
> Also, I know some of my Central Park checklists include Budgies, but
> there’s no Budgie on my NYS life list, so I must have done something right.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>

--

NYSbirds-L List Info:
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME.htm
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES.htm
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm

ARCHIVES:
1) http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html
2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L
3) http://birding.aba.org/maillist/NY01

Please submit your observations to eBird:
http://ebird.org/content/ebird/

--

RE: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[Shaibal Mitra]

I agree strongly with John and Angus. The consequences for the eBird Hot 100 
are at most not very important and at least potentially amusing. I thought 
everybody knew they were supposed to keep track of their own lists, rather than 
to trust in the algorithms of strangers!

More specifically, regarding European Goldfinches in the New York City area 
now, the numbers of birds present and the area occupied are large enough to 
suggest establishment. Perhaps not everybody is aware that this species 
established breeding populations on western Long Island for decades. It is even 
conceivable that these were never completely extirpated, and that today's birds 
derive at least in part from those naturalized populations (but they are 
certainly at least partly derived from recent escapes, as proven by the 
presence of plastic leg bands on some). The best argument against the 
hypothesis of demographic continuity between the period of establishment and 
the current resurgence in reported abundance is that very few or none were 
reported for several decades. But this is at best a weak argument from negative 
data that are known to be systematically biased against reporting. 

Monk Parakeets provide a parallel example that is very instructive. This 
species established breeding populations in the New York City/Long Island 
region that were fairly large and widespread by the early 1970s. These were 
subjected to eradication programs during the mid-1970s, and perceptions shifted 
to the extent that NYSARC acted (overly boldly in my opinion) to remove the 
species from the official New York State Checklist in 1982. Reports almost 
ceased during this period, but we know in this case that the gap in documented 
occurrence was an error arising from two sources: because backyard birders who 
liked the parakeets concealed their presence to protect them from destruction; 
but also because the remaining birds were perceived as "not countable" by 
competitive birders. 

Today's thread illustrates that under-reporting of "not countable" species has 
persisted in birding culture, to the detriment of our ability to infer the 
actual statuses of non-native species.

Shai Mitra
Bay Shore

From: bounce-122144147-11143...@list.cornell.edu 
[bounce-122144147-11143...@list.cornell.edu] on behalf of John Laver 
[eart...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 2:20 PM
To: Angus Wilson
Cc: NYSBIRDS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

"Personally, I think tracking these potential colonizers is important and 
interesting. Simply invalidating them or discouraging reporting isn't a good 
solution."

Agreed, particularly as range flux is likely to accelerate in ways we'll need 
to observe and measure as climate changes take hold.  We need to think about 
the Big Picture.

John Laver
Manhattan

On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 1:50 PM, Angus Wilson 
> wrote:
For European Goldfinch I suspect 'domesticated' isn't an option. Same for other 
known or presumed escapes or deliberate releases that occur with regularity in 
NYS (e.g. Chukar and various non-domesticated waterfowl). Personally, I think 
tracking these potential colonizers is important and interesting. Simply 
invalidating them or discouraging reporting isn't a good solution. Issues with 
list purity can be a separate conversation, decoupled from the scientific uses 
of this information.

Angus Wilson
New York City, NY
--

NYSbirds-L List Info:
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME.htm
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES.htm
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm

ARCHIVES:
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2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L
3) http://birding.aba.org/maillist/NY01

Please submit your observations to eBird:
http://ebird.org/content/ebird/

--

[nysbirds-l] OCWA or MGWA

[Cesar Castillo]

Dear All,
I have posted the original images on flicker.  I have not messed with the 
photos except in increasing their sharpness.  I can see how this could be an 
orange-crowned warbler, however I remember seeing a grey hood that extended 
quite a bit, Carry Laben and I immediately thought Mourning W until we looked 
at the photos and thought MacGillivray's.  Memory is fickle though when it 
comes to details, I don't tend to just trust mine without evidence.  The hood, 
if it is real is most notable in the 2nd and 7th link below.  
Thank you all, it's too bad no one else has been able to see it.  I attempted 
to find it on Monday morning, but there was active construction in the location 
where it was found, and most of the snow in the park had melted, giving this 
bird and all the other birds found in the same spot ample opportunity to find 
food elsewhere. 
OCWA or MGWA


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Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
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Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
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Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
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Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
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Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
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Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
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Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
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Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
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Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
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César 
Una tarde la princesa  vio una estrella aparecer;  la princesa era traviesa  y 
la quiso ir a coger.  
La quería para hacerla  decorar un prendedor,  con un verso y una perla,  una 
pluma y una flor.  
Las princesas primorosas  se parecen mucho a ti;  cortan lirios, cortan rosas,  
cortan astros. Son así.
-A Margarita Debayle (To Margarita Debayle) by Ruben Dario
--

NYSbirds-L List Info:
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME.htm
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES.htm
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm

ARCHIVES:
1) http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html
2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L
3) http://birding.aba.org/maillist/NY01

Please submit your observations to eBird:
http://ebird.org/content/ebird/

--

Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[nathan o'reilly]

And I believe that is why the ebird reviewers ask you to include them. That way 
they can get an idea of what other species are out there competing for food and 
habitat.



Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 19, 2017, at 1:50 PM, Angus Wilson 
> wrote:

For European Goldfinch I suspect 'domesticated' isn't an option. Same for other 
known or presumed escapes or deliberate releases that occur with regularity in 
NYS (e.g. Chukar and various non-domesticated waterfowl). Personally, I think 
tracking these potential colonizers is important and interesting. Simply 
invalidating them or discouraging reporting isn't a good solution. Issues with 
list purity can be a separate conversation, decoupled from the scientific uses 
of this information.

Angus Wilson
New York City, NY
--
NYSbirds-L List Info:
Welcome and Basics
Rules and Information
Subscribe, Configuration and 
Leave
Archives:
The Mail 
Archive
Surfbirds
ABA
Please submit your observations to eBird!
--

--

NYSbirds-L List Info:
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME.htm
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES.htm
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm

ARCHIVES:
1) http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html
2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L
3) http://birding.aba.org/maillist/NY01

Please submit your observations to eBird:
http://ebird.org/content/ebird/

--

Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[nathan o'reilly]

Unfortunately, my life list has both a Brooklyn European Goldfinch and a 
Manhattan Yellow-fronted Canary on it.

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 19, 2017, at 2:08 PM, Dominic Garcia-Hall 
> wrote:

I believe they don’t count on county/state lists or users' lists, even if you 
report them as regular species taxa (or if they don't have a domestic 
designation in the first place). If you tick a Black Swan in Australia, you'll 
see your list go up by one. If you tick it in NJ, you won't, even if you enter 
it without the feral/domestic moniker.
The eBird algorithm 'decides' where it's apprpriate from a listing perspective. 
At least that was my understanding I might be wrong.

Dominic Garcia-Hall

www.antbirds.com

NY  +1 917 740 1945
UK  +44 161 408 4002

On Tue, 19 Dec 2017 at 18:53, nathan o'reilly 
> wrote:
And I believe that is why the ebird reviewers ask you to include them. That way 
they can get an idea of what other species are out there competing for food and 
habitat.



Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 19, 2017, at 1:50 PM, Angus Wilson 
> wrote:

For European Goldfinch I suspect 'domesticated' isn't an option. Same for other 
known or presumed escapes or deliberate releases that occur with regularity in 
NYS (e.g. Chukar and various non-domesticated waterfowl). Personally, I think 
tracking these potential colonizers is important and interesting. Simply 
invalidating them or discouraging reporting isn't a good solution. Issues with 
list purity can be a separate conversation, decoupled from the scientific uses 
of this information.

Angus Wilson
New York City, NY
--
NYSbirds-L List Info:
Welcome and Basics
Rules and Information
Subscribe, Configuration and 
Leave
Archives:
The Mail 
Archive
Surfbirds
ABA
Please submit your observations to eBird!
--
--
NYSbirds-L List Info:
Welcome and Basics
Rules and Information
Subscribe, Configuration and 
Leave
Archives:
The Mail 
Archive
Surfbirds
ABA
Please submit your observations to eBird!
--

--

NYSbirds-L List Info:
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME.htm
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES.htm
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm

ARCHIVES:
1) http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html
2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L
3) http://birding.aba.org/maillist/NY01

Please submit your observations to eBird:
http://ebird.org/content/ebird/

--

RE: [nysbirds-l] OCWA or MGWA

[Patricia Lindsay]

And please allow me to clarify that I have no idea why it is circulating 
that I put the blessing on the ID as MacGillivray's after having a 
single 2 second look at a tiny image on someone's phone on Sunday. My 
reaction was simply a "wow" and I never pursued it further.



Patricia Lindsay
Bay Shore


On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 03:16 PM, Shaibal Mitra wrote:

> Hi Cesar and all,
>
> Very cool-looking bird!
>
> I think its overall shape (and particularly its very finely pointed 
> bill) and manners suggest Orange-crowned Warbler. I also think that a 
> MacGillivray's Warbler would show a thicker, blacker loral stripe.
>
> Finally, the whitish edges to the tips of the primaries are a typical 
> feature of Orange-crowned Warbler, and one that I can't recall seeing 
> on things like Mourning Warbler or Common Yellowthroat, whcih 
> MacGillivray's would be expected to resemble.
>
> Shai Mitra
> Bay Shore
> 
> From: bounce-122143179-11143...@list.cornell.edu 
> [bounce-122143179-11143...@list.cornell.edu] on behalf of Cesar 
> Castillo [czar3...@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 1:46 PM
> To: EBirds NYC; NYSBIRDS-L
> Subject: [nysbirds-l] OCWA or MGWA
>
> Dear All,
>
> I have posted the original images on flicker.  I have not messed with 
> the photos except in increasing their sharpness.  I can see how this 
> could be an orange-crowned warbler, however I remember seeing a grey 
> hood that extended quite a bit, Carry Laben and I immediately thought 
> Mourning W until we looked at the photos and thought MacGillivray's. 
> Memory is fickle though when it comes to details, I don't tend to just 
> trust mine without evidence.  The hood, if it is real is most notable 
> in the 2nd and 7th link below.
>
> Thank you all, it's too bad no one else has been able to see it.  I 
> attempted to find it on Monday morning, but there was active 
> construction in the location where it was found, and most of the snow 
> in the park had melted, giving this bird and all the other birds found 
> in the same spot ample opportunity to find food elsewhere.
>
> OCWA or MGWA
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
> OCWA or MGWA
>
> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 
> 12/17/2017
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
> OCWA or MGWA
>
> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 
> 12/17/2017
>
>
>
>
> OCWA or MGWA
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
> OCWA or MGWA
>
> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 
> 12/17/2017
>
>
>
>
>
> OCWA or MGWA
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
> OCWA or MGWA
>
> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 
> 12/17/2017
>
>
>
>
> OCWA or MGWA
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
> OCWA or MGWA
>
> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 
> 12/17/2017
>
>
>
>
> OCWA or MGWA
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
> OCWA or MGWA
>
> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 
> 12/17/2017
>
>
>
>
>
> OCWA or MGWA
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
> OCWA or MGWA
>
> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 
> 12/17/2017
>
>
>
>
>
> OCWA or MGWA
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
> OCWA or MGWA
>
> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 
> 12/17/2017
>
>
>
>
> OCWA or MGWA
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
> OCWA or MGWA
>
> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 
> 12/17/2017
>
>
>
>
>
>
> César
>
> Una tarde la princesa  vio una estrella aparecer;  la princesa era 
> traviesa  y la quiso ir a coger.
> La quería para hacerla  decorar un prendedor,  con un verso y una 
> perla,  una pluma y una flor.
> Las princesas primorosas  se parecen mucho a ti;  cortan lirios, 
> cortan rosas,  cortan astros. Son así.
> -A Margarita Debayle (To Margarita Debayle) by Ruben Dario
> --
> NYSbirds-L List Info:
> Welcome and Basics
> Rules and Information
> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
> Archives:
> The Mail Archive
> Surfbirds
> ABA
> Please submit your observations to eBird!
> --
>
> --
>
> NYSbirds-L List Info:
> http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME.htm
> http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES.htm
> 
> http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm
>
> ARCHIVES:
> 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html
> 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L
> 3) http://birding.aba.org/maillist/NY01
>
> Please submit your observations to eBird:
> 

Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[Dominic Garcia-Hall]

Oh, weird, I am indeed wrong then ;)
Wouldn’t be hard to automate a rule in eBird that folllowed ABA protocol on
what’s countable or not?

*Dominic Garcia-Hall*

*www.antbirds.com *

*NY  +1 917 740 1945*
*UK  +44 161 408 4002*

On 19 December 2017 at 19:11, nathan o'reilly  wrote:

> Unfortunately, my life list has both a Brooklyn European Goldfinch and a
> Manhattan Yellow-fronted Canary on it.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 19, 2017, at 2:08 PM, Dominic Garcia-Hall 
> wrote:
>
> I believe they don’t count on county/state lists or users' lists, even if
> you report them as regular species taxa (or if they don't have a domestic
> designation in the first place). If you tick a Black Swan in Australia,
> you'll see your list go up by one. If you tick it in NJ, you won't, even if
> you enter it without the feral/domestic moniker.
> The eBird algorithm 'decides' where it's apprpriate from a listing
> perspective. At least that was my understanding I might be wrong.
>
> * Dominic Garcia-Hall*
>
> *www.antbirds.com *
>
> *NY  +1 917 740 1945 <(917)%20740-1945>*
> *UK  +44 161 408 4002 <+44%20161%20408%204002>*
>
> On Tue, 19 Dec 2017 at 18:53, nathan o'reilly 
> wrote:
>
>> And I believe that is why the ebird reviewers ask you to include them.
>> That way they can get an idea of what other species are out there competing
>> for food and habitat.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Dec 19, 2017, at 1:50 PM, Angus Wilson 
>> wrote:
>>
>> For European Goldfinch I suspect 'domesticated' isn't an option. Same for
>> other known or presumed escapes or deliberate releases that occur with
>> regularity in NYS (e.g. Chukar and various non-domesticated waterfowl).
>> Personally, I think tracking these potential colonizers is important and
>> interesting. Simply invalidating them or discouraging reporting isn't a
>> good solution. Issues with list purity can be a separate conversation,
>> decoupled from the scientific uses of this information.
>>
>> Angus Wilson
>> New York City, NY
>> --
>> *NYSbirds-L List Info:*
>> Welcome and Basics 
>> Rules and Information 
>> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
>> 
>> *Archives:*
>> The Mail Archive
>> 
>> Surfbirds 
>> ABA 
>> *Please submit your observations to **eBird*
>> *!*
>> --
>>
>> --
>> *NYSbirds-L List Info:*
>> Welcome and Basics 
>> Rules and Information 
>> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
>> 
>> *Archives:*
>> The Mail Archive
>> 
>> Surfbirds 
>> ABA 
>> *Please submit your observations to **eBird*
>> *!*
>> --
>>
>
-- 
www.antbird
+ 1 646 429 2667

--

NYSbirds-L List Info:
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME.htm
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES.htm
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ARCHIVES:
1) http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html
2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L
3) http://birding.aba.org/maillist/NY01

Please submit your observations to eBird:
http://ebird.org/content/ebird/

--

Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[brian . whipple]

The umpteen responses I’ve gotten to the contrary are why I hedged my
sureness.

Does anyone know the proper protocol for entering escapees on checklists
(benefitting science) without having them inaccurately show up on lifelists
(benefitting type-A listers)?

Also, I know some of my Central Park checklists include Budgies, but
there’s no Budgie on my NYS life list, so I must have done something right.

Thanks!

On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 12:47 PM  wrote:

> I’m 95% sure that European Goldfinches (like Budgies) won’t show up on
> anyone’s eBird NY State life list even if you keep the species in your
> regular checklists. eBird knows what to count/not count in that respect.
>
> On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 12:38 PM Deborah Allen 
> wrote:
>
>> The European Goldfinches should be entered into ebird, especially if
>> there is any evidence of breeding, so their populations can be monitored.
>>
>> Deb Allen
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: nathan o'reilly
>> Sent: Dec 19, 2017 4:55 AM
>> To: Ben Cacace
>> Cc: NYSBIRDS-L , eBirds NYC
>> Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock
>> (18-Dec)
>>
>> Prospect Park/Brooklyn birders: Have any of you seen them more recently
>> and do you enter the European Goldfinch  into ebird when you see them? I
>> know some birders do not consider them "wild" so they do not report them to
>> ebird.
>>
>> Cool sightings for Gov Island though. It is unfortunate to be closed off
>> to the public over the winter.
>>
>> Nate
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Dec 19, 2017, at 4:48 AM, Ben Cacace  wrote:
>>
>> Unfortunately the island is closed to the public until May 1st but I was
>> very lucky to get invited to the island yesterday.
>>
>> There was a small flock of European Goldfinch in Hammock Grove of ~12
>> birds and a small group of 5 (same birds?) seen off Nolan Park later in the
>> day.
>>
>> I was looking into European Goldfinch sightings on eBird and the most
>> recent one in the area is from Prospect Park on Nov 26th of one bird. The
>> only sightings "locally" are from Bermuda and points north of Chicago. The
>> number of individuals from the Lake Michigan group are no higher than 8
>> individuals for sightings between Nov-Dec of this year.
>>
>> European Goldfinch: Current Year Map for Nov-Dec
>> • https://tinyurl.com/y7yg59yx
>> ... zoom out to view sightings from Bermuda.
>>
>> Is the most likely explanation that these are a new set of escaped birds?
>> Or could the weather have had an effect on local populations? They
>> understood Sweetgums as a food source and the birds were very vocal. How
>> quickly do newly escaped birds take to Sweetgum Trees?
>>
>> You can see photos on Cathy Weiner's eBird checklist:
>> • http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist/S41179158
>>
>> --
>> Ben Cacace
>> Manhattan, NYC
>> Wiki for NYS eBird Hotspots
>> 
>> Facebook Discussion for NYS eBird Hotspots: Q & A
>> 
>> --
>> *NYSbirds-L List Info:*
>> Welcome and Basics 
>> Rules and Information 
>> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
>> 
>> *Archives:*
>> The Mail Archive
>> 
>> Surfbirds 
>> ABA 
>> *Please submit your observations to **eBird*
>> *!*
>> --
>>
>> --
>> *NYSbirds-L List Info:*
>> Welcome and Basics 
>> Rules and Information 
>> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
>> 
>> *Archives:*
>> The Mail Archive
>> 
>> Surfbirds 
>> ABA 
>> *Please submit your observations to **eBird*
>> *!*
>> --
>>
>> --
>> *NYSbirds-L List Info:*
>> Welcome and Basics 
>> Rules and Information 
>> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
>> 
>> *Archives:*
>> The Mail Archive
>> 
>> Surfbirds 
>> ABA 
>> *Please submit your observations to **eBird*
>> *!*
>> --
>>
> --
> BTW
>
-- 
BTW

--

NYSbirds-L List Info:

Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[Joshua Malbin]

European Goldfinch seems to be one of those species without a Domestic
option.

On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 1:37 PM nathan o'reilly 
wrote:

> Although some species do not have a Domestic option like the
> Yellow-fronted Canaries I've had a couple times in Manhattan and told by an
> ebird reviewed to add them. I hope to rectify my life list by getting them
> in the wild this summer.
>
> Seems like most people don't know this about the Domestic option for the
> Muscovy Ducks in CP.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 19, 2017, at 1:31 PM, David Barrett  wrote:
>
> The proper way to enter escaped exotics on eBird lists is to select the
> domestic version. For example, if you search eBird for Budgerigar you will
> also get Budgerigar (Domestic). Choose the latter.
>
> David Barrett
> Manhattan
>
> On Dec 19, 2017 1:16 PM,  wrote:
>
>> The umpteen responses I’ve gotten to the contrary are why I hedged my
>> sureness.
>>
>> Does anyone know the proper protocol for entering escapees on checklists
>> (benefitting science) without having them inaccurately show up on lifelists
>> (benefitting type-A listers)?
>>
>> Also, I know some of my Central Park checklists include Budgies, but
>> there’s no Budgie on my NYS life list, so I must have done something right.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 12:47 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> I’m 95% sure that European Goldfinches (like Budgies) won’t show up on
>>> anyone’s eBird NY State life list even if you keep the species in your
>>> regular checklists. eBird knows what to count/not count in that respect.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 12:38 PM Deborah Allen 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 The European Goldfinches should be entered into ebird, especially if
 there is any evidence of breeding, so their populations can be monitored.

 Deb Allen


 -Original Message-
 From: nathan o'reilly
 Sent: Dec 19, 2017 4:55 AM
 To: Ben Cacace
 Cc: NYSBIRDS-L , eBirds NYC
 Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock
 (18-Dec)

 Prospect Park/Brooklyn birders: Have any of you seen them more recently
 and do you enter the European Goldfinch  into ebird when you see them? I
 know some birders do not consider them "wild" so they do not report them to
 ebird.

 Cool sightings for Gov Island though. It is unfortunate to be closed
 off to the public over the winter.

 Nate


 Sent from my iPhone

 On Dec 19, 2017, at 4:48 AM, Ben Cacace  wrote:

 Unfortunately the island is closed to the public until May 1st but I
 was very lucky to get invited to the island yesterday.

 There was a small flock of European Goldfinch in Hammock Grove of ~12
 birds and a small group of 5 (same birds?) seen off Nolan Park later in the
 day.

 I was looking into European Goldfinch sightings on eBird and the most
 recent one in the area is from Prospect Park on Nov 26th of one bird. The
 only sightings "locally" are from Bermuda and points north of Chicago. The
 number of individuals from the Lake Michigan group are no higher than 8
 individuals for sightings between Nov-Dec of this year.

 European Goldfinch: Current Year Map for Nov-Dec
 • https://tinyurl.com/y7yg59yx
 ... zoom out to view sightings from Bermuda.

 Is the most likely explanation that these are a new set of escaped
 birds? Or could the weather have had an effect on local populations? They
 understood Sweetgums as a food source and the birds were very vocal. How
 quickly do newly escaped birds take to Sweetgum Trees?

 You can see photos on Cathy Weiner's eBird checklist:
 • http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist/S41179158

 --
 Ben Cacace
 Manhattan, NYC
 Wiki for NYS eBird Hotspots
 
 Facebook Discussion for NYS eBird Hotspots: Q & A
 
 --
 *NYSbirds-L List Info:*
 Welcome and Basics
 
 Rules and Information
 
 Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
 
 *Archives:*
 The Mail Archive
 
 Surfbirds 
 ABA 
 *Please submit your observations to **eBird*
 *!*
 --

 --
 *NYSbirds-L List Info:*
 Welcome and Basics
 
 Rules and Information
 

Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[Angus Wilson]

For European Goldfinch I suspect 'domesticated' isn't an option. Same for
other known or presumed escapes or deliberate releases that occur with
regularity in NYS (e.g. Chukar and various non-domesticated waterfowl).
Personally, I think tracking these potential colonizers is important and
interesting. Simply invalidating them or discouraging reporting isn't a
good solution. Issues with list purity can be a separate conversation,
decoupled from the scientific uses of this information.

Angus Wilson
New York City, NY

--

NYSbirds-L List Info:
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME.htm
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES.htm
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm

ARCHIVES:
1) http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html
2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L
3) http://birding.aba.org/maillist/NY01

Please submit your observations to eBird:
http://ebird.org/content/ebird/

--

Re: [nysbirds-l] OCWA or MGWA

[Andrew Baksh]

Definitely an Orange-crowned Warbler for all the reasons already cited by Shai.

Thanks for making the images available for further review.

Cheers,


"I prefer to be true to myself, even at the hazard of incurring the ridicule of 
others, rather than to be false, and to incur my own abhorrence." ~ Frederick 
Douglass

風　Swift as the wind
林　Quiet as the forest
火　Conquer like the fire
山　Steady as the mountain
Sun Tzu  The Art of War

> (\__/)
> (= '.'=)
> (") _ (") 
> Sent from somewhere in the field using my mobile device! 

Andrew Baksh
www.birdingdude.blogspot.com

> On Dec 19, 2017, at 3:33 PM, Patricia Lindsay  wrote:
> 
> And please allow me to clarify that I have no idea why it is circulating 
> that I put the blessing on the ID as MacGillivray's after having a 
> single 2 second look at a tiny image on someone's phone on Sunday. My 
> reaction was simply a "wow" and I never pursued it further.
> 
> 
> 
> Patricia Lindsay
> Bay Shore
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 03:16 PM, Shaibal Mitra wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Cesar and all,
>> 
>> Very cool-looking bird!
>> 
>> I think its overall shape (and particularly its very finely pointed 
>> bill) and manners suggest Orange-crowned Warbler. I also think that a 
>> MacGillivray's Warbler would show a thicker, blacker loral stripe.
>> 
>> Finally, the whitish edges to the tips of the primaries are a typical 
>> feature of Orange-crowned Warbler, and one that I can't recall seeing 
>> on things like Mourning Warbler or Common Yellowthroat, whcih 
>> MacGillivray's would be expected to resemble.
>> 
>> Shai Mitra
>> Bay Shore
>> 
>> From: bounce-122143179-11143...@list.cornell.edu 
>> [bounce-122143179-11143...@list.cornell.edu] on behalf of Cesar 
>> Castillo [czar3...@yahoo.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 1:46 PM
>> To: EBirds NYC; NYSBIRDS-L
>> Subject: [nysbirds-l] OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> Dear All,
>> 
>> I have posted the original images on flicker.  I have not messed with 
>> the photos except in increasing their sharpness.  I can see how this 
>> could be an orange-crowned warbler, however I remember seeing a grey 
>> hood that extended quite a bit, Carry Laben and I immediately thought 
>> Mourning W until we looked at the photos and thought MacGillivray's. 
>> Memory is fickle though when it comes to details, I don't tend to just 
>> trust mine without evidence.  The hood, if it is real is most notable 
>> in the 2nd and 7th link below.
>> 
>> Thank you all, it's too bad no one else has been able to see it.  I 
>> attempted to find it on Monday morning, but there was active 
>> construction in the location where it was found, and most of the snow 
>> in the park had melted, giving this bird and all the other birds found 
>> in the same spot ample opportunity to find food elsewhere.
>> 
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 
>> 12/17/2017
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 
>> 12/17/2017
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 
>> 12/17/2017
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 
>> 12/17/2017
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 
>> 12/17/2017
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 
>> 12/17/2017
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 
>> 12/17/2017
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 
>> 12/17/2017
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 
>> 

Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[brian . whipple]

As much as I’d like to claim the high-minded ideals of the altruistic
citizen scientist who is wholly uninterested in his own numbers, I can’t.
I’m very much a lister—at turns shamefully and shamelessly so. Numbers and
lists don’t motivate me; moments with the birds do. But numbers and lists
sure are cool to look at, and they’re nice to peruse when I’m not in the
field. I really, *really* like looking at my lists. There, I said it.

While I did start using eBird in 2013 to contribute to the big picture and
be a citizen scientist, the way the database presents and organizes my
personal data for me has further advanced my interest in that personal
data. Maybe too much so.

The Major Regions, Countries, States, and Counties tabs are very cool. The
introduction of the profile feature with its color-graded maps? The Target
Species feature? The “Hot 100” (Shai’s apt term, not mine)? These features
all serve to reinforce the likelihood that, for many, this site is a way to
record personal data. The usefulness of that data to science is, to many
users, secondary—a by-product of a birder’s desire to see how her 2017
compares to her 2016, and so on. Cornell definitely knows this.  They
continuent to attract users with ways to serve themselves and then, whether
incidentally or intentionally, to serve science and conservation at the
same time.

The site and the app have grown by such tremendous leaps and bounds lately.
I’ve no doubt there’s a way to make not-countable species not count even
when added to everyday checklists. And I’ve also got no doubt that there
are scads of birders who simply will not put Muscovy Ducks, Budgies, or
European Goldfinches on their lists if it means their numbers aren’t
“officially” correct—just as sure as I am that some people will count the
Virginia Rail regardless of how long ago the Wild Bird Fund released it in
the park.

Anyways, thanks for all the thoughtful and passionate discussion. There are
few groups of people of which I’m happier to count myself a member than
birders in general and NY State birders in particular. You guys are all
right.

Brian

On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 3:02 PM Shaibal Mitra 
wrote:

> I agree strongly with John and Angus. The consequences for the eBird Hot
> 100 are at most not very important and at least potentially amusing. I
> thought everybody knew they were supposed to keep track of their own lists,
> rather than to trust in the algorithms of strangers!
>
> More specifically, regarding European Goldfinches in the New York City
> area now, the numbers of birds present and the area occupied are large
> enough to suggest establishment. Perhaps not everybody is aware that this
> species established breeding populations on western Long Island for
> decades. It is even conceivable that these were never completely
> extirpated, and that today's birds derive at least in part from those
> naturalized populations (but they are certainly at least partly derived
> from recent escapes, as proven by the presence of plastic leg bands on
> some). The best argument against the hypothesis of demographic continuity
> between the period of establishment and the current resurgence in reported
> abundance is that very few or none were reported for several decades. But
> this is at best a weak argument from negative data that are known to be
> systematically biased against reporting.
>
> Monk Parakeets provide a parallel example that is very instructive. This
> species established breeding populations in the New York City/Long Island
> region that were fairly large and widespread by the early 1970s. These were
> subjected to eradication programs during the mid-1970s, and perceptions
> shifted to the extent that NYSARC acted (overly boldly in my opinion) to
> remove the species from the official New York State Checklist in 1982.
> Reports almost ceased during this period, but we know in this case that the
> gap in documented occurrence was an error arising from two sources: because
> backyard birders who liked the parakeets concealed their presence to
> protect them from destruction; but also because the remaining birds were
> perceived as "not countable" by competitive birders.
>
> Today's thread illustrates that under-reporting of "not countable" species
> has persisted in birding culture, to the detriment of our ability to infer
> the actual statuses of non-native species.
>
> Shai Mitra
> Bay Shore
> 
> From: bounce-122144147-11143...@list.cornell.edu [
> bounce-122144147-11143...@list.cornell.edu] on behalf of John Laver [
> eart...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 2:20 PM
> To: Angus Wilson
> Cc: NYSBIRDS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock
> (18-Dec)
>
> "Personally, I think tracking these potential colonizers is important and
> interesting. Simply invalidating them or discouraging reporting isn't a
> good solution."
>
> Agreed, particularly 

RE: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[Rick]

Lest we forget, a number of existing cases (parrots often, some of which we
find locally) in which strays turned into intermittent breeders, and now are
established, countable exotics. Shouldn't we be interested in how this
transition occurs (or fails to do so)?

In my Brooklyn XMas count database, we track a number of exotics, but flag
them as "non-countable."  In producing reports, we may differentiate
countable years from non-countable by years, if so desired. This is not a
difficult feat, as long as the data model is well-designed. Can eBirds do
this? Arguably it should. This would support a number of the data tracking
suggestions already put forward in this thread.

Just a thought,
Rick

-Original Message-
From: bounce-122144285-3714...@list.cornell.edu
[mailto:bounce-122144285-3714...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Shaibal
Mitra
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 3:02 PM
To: NYSBIRDS (NYSBIRDS-L@cornell.edu) 
Subject: RE: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock
(18-Dec)

I agree strongly with John and Angus. The consequences for the eBird Hot 100
are at most not very important and at least potentially amusing. I thought
everybody knew they were supposed to keep track of their own lists, rather
than to trust in the algorithms of strangers!

More specifically, regarding European Goldfinches in the New York City area
now, the numbers of birds present and the area occupied are large enough to
suggest establishment. Perhaps not everybody is aware that this species
established breeding populations on western Long Island for decades. It is
even conceivable that these were never completely extirpated, and that
today's birds derive at least in part from those naturalized populations
(but they are certainly at least partly derived from recent escapes, as
proven by the presence of plastic leg bands on some). The best argument
against the hypothesis of demographic continuity between the period of
establishment and the current resurgence in reported abundance is that very
few or none were reported for several decades. But this is at best a weak
argument from negative data that are known to be systematically biased
against reporting. 

Monk Parakeets provide a parallel example that is very instructive. This
species established breeding populations in the New York City/Long Island
region that were fairly large and widespread by the early 1970s. These were
subjected to eradication programs during the mid-1970s, and perceptions
shifted to the extent that NYSARC acted (overly boldly in my opinion) to
remove the species from the official New York State Checklist in 1982.
Reports almost ceased during this period, but we know in this case that the
gap in documented occurrence was an error arising from two sources: because
backyard birders who liked the parakeets concealed their presence to protect
them from destruction; but also because the remaining birds were perceived
as "not countable" by competitive birders. 

Today's thread illustrates that under-reporting of "not countable" species
has persisted in birding culture, to the detriment of our ability to infer
the actual statuses of non-native species.

Shai Mitra
Bay Shore

From: bounce-122144147-11143...@list.cornell.edu
[bounce-122144147-11143...@list.cornell.edu] on behalf of John Laver
[eart...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 2:20 PM
To: Angus Wilson
Cc: NYSBIRDS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock
(18-Dec)

"Personally, I think tracking these potential colonizers is important and
interesting. Simply invalidating them or discouraging reporting isn't a good
solution."

Agreed, particularly as range flux is likely to accelerate in ways we'll
need to observe and measure as climate changes take hold.  We need to think
about the Big Picture.

John Laver
Manhattan

On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 1:50 PM, Angus Wilson
> wrote:
For European Goldfinch I suspect 'domesticated' isn't an option. Same for
other known or presumed escapes or deliberate releases that occur with
regularity in NYS (e.g. Chukar and various non-domesticated waterfowl).
Personally, I think tracking these potential colonizers is important and
interesting. Simply invalidating them or discouraging reporting isn't a good
solution. Issues with list purity can be a separate conversation, decoupled
from the scientific uses of this information.

Angus Wilson
New York City, NY
--

NYSbirds-L List Info:
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME.htm
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES.htm
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm

ARCHIVES:
1) http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html
2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L
3) http://birding.aba.org/maillist/NY01

Please submit your observations to eBird:

RE: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[Shaibal Mitra]

Hi Kevin and all,

This is true, but it doesn't solve the problem. eBird central might mean well, 
but they could be wrong in any given instance--and they are bound to be from 
time to time, just like NYSARC was wrong to "officially" declare that Monk 
Parakeets were gone in 1982.

We could go on and on about how ordinarily responsible bodies spit the bit, 
admittedly rarely, but also predictably. (Don't get me started about ABA adding 
Hawaii to North America, by decree.)

In my opinion, each person has to take responsibility for his/her own agenda. 
No matter what algorithms eBird employs, the Hot 100 will never be an objective 
reckoning of anything, right? 

Shai

From: bounce-122144759-3714...@list.cornell.edu 
[bounce-122144759-3714...@list.cornell.edu] on behalf of Kevin J. McGowan 
[k...@cornell.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 7:47 PM
To: NYSBIRDS-L
Cc: eBirds NYC
Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

Keep the conversation going with eBird. As an ornithologist, I'm interested in 
tracking the ups and downs of potential newly established species. As a lister, 
I'm interested in keeping my list clean and comparable for ABA rankings. I 
don't work with eBird, but be assured that the guys that do are both 
ornithologists and listers, too. I have no doubt that they will address this 
issue in the future. They're not technocrats who want to tell birders what to 
do, they're our people.


Kevin


Kevin J. McGowan
Project Manager
Distance Learning in Bird Biology
Cornell Lab of Ornithology
159 Sapsucker Woods Road
Ithaca, NY 14850
k...@cornell.edu
607-254-2452



From: bounce-12212-3714...@list.cornell.edu 
 on behalf of Michael Schrimpf 

Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 4:02 PM
To: brian.whip...@gmail.com
Cc: NYSBIRDS-L; eBirds NYC
Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

Hi all,

Just to add a bit more context:

There have been many in-depth discussions on this topic among the eBird 
reviewers, and the folks at Cornell acknowledge that this is an issue they wish 
to tackle soon. In one of his recent responses to our reviewer listserv, 
Marshall Iliff indicated that addressing this is a priority for them, so I 
imagine we should have additional tools soon (perhaps in the next year), 
presumably impacting what shows up in the public output, and likely including 
some user-options for what to count and what not to count on our own personal 
lists.

The current recommendation is to report any live, wild birds, including 
introduced birds (see the bottom of this help page):
http://help.ebird.org/customer/en/portal/articles/973921-what-data-are-appropriate-
What Data are Appropriate? | 
eBird
help.ebird.org
This feature describes the kinds of data appropriate for eBird, provides some 
tips for data entry, and warns about the problems associated with certain kinds 
of ...



In many places some of those introduced birds will become 'invalidated' by the 
reviewers, meaning they won't show up in public output (but will still show up 
on your lists), while other established species will show up on public maps. 
The important thing is that regardless of review status, those records are 
still in the database, and if/when they become important to monitor the 
community will still have access to those records. Some of that process may 
change once eBird Central invents new tools to deal with the data.

Many (but not all) exotics are also 'domestic' types, by which eBird means 
"distinctly-plumaged domesticated varieties that may be free-flying". Locally 
this includes things like Budgerigar, 'Swedish' Mallards, etc. There are 
normally separate taxonomic categories for those birds with the words (Domestic 
type) in parenthesis. These should only be used for birds that are identifiable 
as a domestic variety. These domestic varieties currently don't show up on 
lists. More info on that category can be found on this help page:
http://help.ebird.org/customer/en/portal/articles/1006825-the-ebird-taxonomy?b_id=1928
The eBird Taxonomy | 
eBird
help.ebird.org
Updated 15 Aug 2017 -- eBird Taxonomy v2017. The eBird Taxonomy is a 
hierarchical approach to creating a species list for data entry and listing 
purposes across the ...



Michael Schrimpf
Suffolk Cty
eBird reviewer for the high seas and Antarctica


On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 1:16 PM, 
> wrote:
The umpteen responses I’ve gotten to the contrary are why I hedged my sureness.

Does anyone know the proper protocol for entering escapees on checklists 
(benefitting science) without having them inaccurately show up on 

Re: [nysbirds-l] OCWA or MGWA

[Andrew Block]

Boy, after seeing the Macgillivray's in Highlands, NJ yesterday and seeing the 
photos of this bird, I can see the similarities for sure.  But the 
MacGillivray's did not have those light edgings as Shai notes and seemed a 
little brighter overall and the throat seemed different too.  I'd lean towards 
an Orange-crowned, but you can really see they'd be confusing in this instance. 
 I've never seen an Orange-crowned like this one.
Andrew Andrew v. F. Block
Consulting Naturalist
20 Hancock Avenue, Apt. 3
Yonkers, Westchester Co., New York 10705-4629
Phone: 914-963-3080; Cell: 914-319-9701 
www.flickr.com/photos/conuropsis/albums

  From: Shaibal Mitra 
 To: NYSBIRDS-L  
 Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 3:16 PM
 Subject: RE: [nysbirds-l] OCWA or MGWA
  
Hi Cesar and all,

Very cool-looking bird!

I think its overall shape (and particularly its very finely pointed bill) and 
manners suggest Orange-crowned Warbler. I also think that a MacGillivray's 
Warbler would show a thicker, blacker loral stripe.

Finally, the whitish edges to the tips of the primaries are a typical feature 
of Orange-crowned Warbler, and one that I can't recall seeing on things like 
Mourning Warbler or Common Yellowthroat, whcih MacGillivray's would be expected 
to resemble.

Shai Mitra
Bay Shore

From: bounce-122143179-11143...@list.cornell.edu 
[bounce-122143179-11143...@list.cornell.edu] on behalf of Cesar Castillo 
[czar3...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 1:46 PM
To: EBirds NYC; NYSBIRDS-L
Subject: [nysbirds-l] OCWA or MGWA

Dear All,

I have posted the original images on flicker.  I have not messed with the 
photos except in increasing their sharpness.  I can see how this could be an 
orange-crowned warbler, however I remember seeing a grey hood that extended 
quite a bit, Carry Laben and I immediately thought Mourning W until we looked 
at the photos and thought MacGillivray's.  Memory is fickle though when it 
comes to details, I don't tend to just trust mine without evidence.  The hood, 
if it is real is most notable in the 2nd and 7th link below.

Thank you all, it's too bad no one else has been able to see it.  I attempted 
to find it on Monday morning, but there was active construction in the location 
where it was found, and most of the snow in the park had melted, giving this 
bird and all the other birds found in the same spot ample opportunity to find 
food elsewhere.

OCWA or 
MGWA






[https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017












[https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017




OCWA or 
MGWA






[https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017





OCWA or 
MGWA






[https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017




OCWA or 
MGWA






[https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017




OCWA or 
MGWA






[https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017





OCWA or 
MGWA






[https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017





OCWA or 
MGWA

Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[Kevin J. McGowan]

Keep the conversation going with eBird. As an ornithologist, I'm interested in 
tracking the ups and downs of potential newly established species. As a lister, 
I'm interested in keeping my list clean and comparable for ABA rankings. I 
don't work with eBird, but be assured that the guys that do are both 
ornithologists and listers, too. I have no doubt that they will address this 
issue in the future. They're not technocrats who want to tell birders what to 
do, they're our people.


Kevin


Kevin J. McGowan
Project Manager
Distance Learning in Bird Biology
Cornell Lab of Ornithology
159 Sapsucker Woods Road
Ithaca, NY 14850
k...@cornell.edu
607-254-2452



From: bounce-12212-3714...@list.cornell.edu 
 on behalf of Michael Schrimpf 

Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 4:02 PM
To: brian.whip...@gmail.com
Cc: NYSBIRDS-L; eBirds NYC
Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

Hi all,

Just to add a bit more context:

There have been many in-depth discussions on this topic among the eBird 
reviewers, and the folks at Cornell acknowledge that this is an issue they wish 
to tackle soon. In one of his recent responses to our reviewer listserv, 
Marshall Iliff indicated that addressing this is a priority for them, so I 
imagine we should have additional tools soon (perhaps in the next year), 
presumably impacting what shows up in the public output, and likely including 
some user-options for what to count and what not to count on our own personal 
lists.

The current recommendation is to report any live, wild birds, including 
introduced birds (see the bottom of this help page):
http://help.ebird.org/customer/en/portal/articles/973921-what-data-are-appropriate-
What Data are Appropriate? | 
eBird
help.ebird.org
This feature describes the kinds of data appropriate for eBird, provides some 
tips for data entry, and warns about the problems associated with certain kinds 
of ...



In many places some of those introduced birds will become 'invalidated' by the 
reviewers, meaning they won't show up in public output (but will still show up 
on your lists), while other established species will show up on public maps. 
The important thing is that regardless of review status, those records are 
still in the database, and if/when they become important to monitor the 
community will still have access to those records. Some of that process may 
change once eBird Central invents new tools to deal with the data.

Many (but not all) exotics are also 'domestic' types, by which eBird means 
"distinctly-plumaged domesticated varieties that may be free-flying". Locally 
this includes things like Budgerigar, 'Swedish' Mallards, etc. There are 
normally separate taxonomic categories for those birds with the words (Domestic 
type) in parenthesis. These should only be used for birds that are identifiable 
as a domestic variety. These domestic varieties currently don't show up on 
lists. More info on that category can be found on this help page:
http://help.ebird.org/customer/en/portal/articles/1006825-the-ebird-taxonomy?b_id=1928
The eBird Taxonomy | 
eBird
help.ebird.org
Updated 15 Aug 2017 -- eBird Taxonomy v2017. The eBird Taxonomy is a 
hierarchical approach to creating a species list for data entry and listing 
purposes across the ...



Michael Schrimpf
Suffolk Cty
eBird reviewer for the high seas and Antarctica


On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 1:16 PM, 
> wrote:
The umpteen responses I’ve gotten to the contrary are why I hedged my sureness.

Does anyone know the proper protocol for entering escapees on checklists 
(benefitting science) without having them inaccurately show up on lifelists 
(benefitting type-A listers)?

Also, I know some of my Central Park checklists include Budgies, but there’s no 
Budgie on my NYS life list, so I must have done something right.

Thanks!



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[nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[Ben Cacace]

Unfortunately the island is closed to the public until May 1st but I was
very lucky to get invited to the island yesterday.

There was a small flock of European Goldfinch in Hammock Grove of ~12 birds
and a small group of 5 (same birds?) seen off Nolan Park later in the day.

I was looking into European Goldfinch sightings on eBird and the most
recent one in the area is from Prospect Park on Nov 26th of one bird. The
only sightings "locally" are from Bermuda and points north of Chicago. The
number of individuals from the Lake Michigan group are no higher than 8
individuals for sightings between Nov-Dec of this year.

European Goldfinch: Current Year Map for Nov-Dec
• https://tinyurl.com/y7yg59yx
... zoom out to view sightings from Bermuda.

Is the most likely explanation that these are a new set of escaped birds?
Or could the weather have had an effect on local populations? They
understood Sweetgums as a food source and the birds were very vocal. How
quickly do newly escaped birds take to Sweetgum Trees?

You can see photos on Cathy Weiner's eBird checklist:
• http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist/S41179158

-- 
Ben Cacace
Manhattan, NYC
Wiki for NYS eBird Hotspots

Facebook Discussion for NYS eBird Hotspots: Q & A


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Please submit your observations to eBird:
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Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[nathan o'reilly]

Prospect Park/Brooklyn birders: Have any of you seen them more recently and do 
you enter the European Goldfinch  into ebird when you see them? I know some 
birders do not consider them "wild" so they do not report them to ebird.

Cool sightings for Gov Island though. It is unfortunate to be closed off to the 
public over the winter.

Nate


Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 19, 2017, at 4:48 AM, Ben Cacace 
> wrote:

Unfortunately the island is closed to the public until May 1st but I was very 
lucky to get invited to the island yesterday.

There was a small flock of European Goldfinch in Hammock Grove of ~12 birds and 
a small group of 5 (same birds?) seen off Nolan Park later in the day.

I was looking into European Goldfinch sightings on eBird and the most recent 
one in the area is from Prospect Park on Nov 26th of one bird. The only 
sightings "locally" are from Bermuda and points north of Chicago. The number of 
individuals from the Lake Michigan group are no higher than 8 individuals for 
sightings between Nov-Dec of this year.

European Goldfinch: Current Year Map for Nov-Dec
• https://tinyurl.com/y7yg59yx
... zoom out to view sightings from Bermuda.

Is the most likely explanation that these are a new set of escaped birds? Or 
could the weather have had an effect on local populations? They understood 
Sweetgums as a food source and the birds were very vocal. How quickly do newly 
escaped birds take to Sweetgum Trees?

You can see photos on Cathy Weiner's eBird checklist:
• http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist/S41179158

--
Ben Cacace
Manhattan, NYC
Wiki for NYS eBird 
Hotspots
Facebook Discussion for NYS eBird Hotspots: Q & 
A
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Please submit your observations to eBird:
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[nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[Ben Cacace]

Unfortunately the island is closed to the public until May 1st but I was
very lucky to get invited to the island yesterday.

There was a small flock of European Goldfinch in Hammock Grove of ~12 birds
and a small group of 5 (same birds?) seen off Nolan Park later in the day.

I was looking into European Goldfinch sightings on eBird and the most
recent one in the area is from Prospect Park on Nov 26th of one bird. The
only sightings "locally" are from Bermuda and points north of Chicago. The
number of individuals from the Lake Michigan group are no higher than 8
individuals for sightings between Nov-Dec of this year.

European Goldfinch: Current Year Map for Nov-Dec
• https://tinyurl.com/y7yg59yx
... zoom out to view sightings from Bermuda.

Is the most likely explanation that these are a new set of escaped birds?
Or could the weather have had an effect on local populations? They
understood Sweetgums as a food source and the birds were very vocal. How
quickly do newly escaped birds take to Sweetgum Trees?

You can see photos on Cathy Weiner's eBird checklist:
• http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist/S41179158

-- 
Ben Cacace
Manhattan, NYC
Wiki for NYS eBird Hotspots

Facebook Discussion for NYS eBird Hotspots: Q & A


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Please submit your observations to eBird:
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Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[nathan o'reilly]

Prospect Park/Brooklyn birders: Have any of you seen them more recently and do 
you enter the European Goldfinch  into ebird when you see them? I know some 
birders do not consider them "wild" so they do not report them to ebird.

Cool sightings for Gov Island though. It is unfortunate to be closed off to the 
public over the winter.

Nate


Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 19, 2017, at 4:48 AM, Ben Cacace 
mailto:bcac...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Unfortunately the island is closed to the public until May 1st but I was very 
lucky to get invited to the island yesterday.

There was a small flock of European Goldfinch in Hammock Grove of ~12 birds and 
a small group of 5 (same birds?) seen off Nolan Park later in the day.

I was looking into European Goldfinch sightings on eBird and the most recent 
one in the area is from Prospect Park on Nov 26th of one bird. The only 
sightings "locally" are from Bermuda and points north of Chicago. The number of 
individuals from the Lake Michigan group are no higher than 8 individuals for 
sightings between Nov-Dec of this year.

European Goldfinch: Current Year Map for Nov-Dec
• https://tinyurl.com/y7yg59yx
... zoom out to view sightings from Bermuda.

Is the most likely explanation that these are a new set of escaped birds? Or 
could the weather have had an effect on local populations? They understood 
Sweetgums as a food source and the birds were very vocal. How quickly do newly 
escaped birds take to Sweetgum Trees?

You can see photos on Cathy Weiner's eBird checklist:
• http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist/S41179158

--
Ben Cacace
Manhattan, NYC
Wiki for NYS eBird 
Hotspots
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A
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[nysbirds-l] BirdCallsRadio - For The Record; Legacy Interview: Helen Hays

[Mardi Dickinson]

Birders et al,

Thought many of you would be interested in a new series. For The Record; Legacy 
Interviews: with our Sixth guest Helen Hays http://birdcallsradio.com/ 


Cheers,
Mardi Dickinson
Norwalk, CT
KymryGroup™  
BirdCallsRadio™ 
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[nysbirds-l] Robert Moses SP, Suffolk County, Mt. Bluebird Yes

[suefeustel]

Last seen at 9:45 AM flying northeast over Fire Island Inlet. Seen in same 
location feeding in Red Cedar trees.

Sent from my iPhone

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Re:[nysbirds-l] Mtn bluebird CONTINUES Tues 12-19

[Arie Gilbert]

  
  
I just got a report that the bird is being seen now @ 11:14am

These directions may be better if you are unable to use the map
links below.

from the Northwest corner of the Robert Moses field 2 lot, walk to
the paved roadway and continue west onto the sand road ( by foot,
permit access only!) 

continue west. you will see the roadway fork, with a sharp left turn
- but **continue STRAIGHT** along bay side.
after walking **way down** past the open area to your right that is
fenced off by string, 
the road will jog left for ~75', then jog right (west) now you will
be separated from the bay side by thick bayberry bushes - continue
on. you will see a "grey telephone pole like stump" along the
left/south edge. I also scraped an arrow in the sand  some 50' +/-
to the west of that,  the bird has been seen in this area ( on south
side ) and delightfully, frequently perches at the very top of the
trees along the edge of the road. 

HTH

Arie Gilbert 
North Babylon, NY

WWW.Powerbirder.blogspot.com 
 WWW.qcbirdclub.org 

Where's That Bird? Maps to Local Birding Hotspots! 
http://www.qcbirdclub.org/birding-site-maps  



On 12/18/2017 9:20 AM, Arie Gilbert
  wrote:


  .
Its probably a bit more than 10 min walk. 
viewed from this location at 9.17am on 12-18-2017
  Found with aid if Mike McBrien
  Right along sand  road in junipers. 
  See map below. 
  http://maps.google.com/maps?q=40.62659634,-73.29798589
  40.62659634,-73.29798589
  Arie Gilbert 
No. Babylon NY 
www.powerbirder.blogspot 
www.qcbirdclub.org
  
--
  Sent from Loretta IV in the field
  


  

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Re:[nysbirds-l] Bryant Park Woodcock - yes

[Home]

Spotted same place early this morning

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 18, 2017, at 3:14 PM, Home  wrote:
> 
> Couldn’t find it in yesterday’s CBC with Gabriel Willow but it re-emerged- 
> actively foraging in the open along the southeast edge allowing passersby on 
> 40th Street to take photos inches away.  At one point it appeared to have its 
> beak stuck for almost a minute until it pulled out a fat 8 inch worm.
> 
> Also- a Yellow-bellied Sapsucker and Song Sparrow.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone


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[nysbirds-l] Top 10 Locations: Greene County (NYS eBird Hotspots)

[Ben Cacace]

Location pages have been created for the current top 10 sites for Greene
County based on total species seen. Numbers in parentheses represents the #
of sub-locations for these sites.

If you spot any issues with the pages please let me know off list.

Also, could you help verify that the '*Directions*' link on the location
pages points to a nearby public parking spot or to an entrance to the site?
See below for details on Google Map links to directions. Thanks!

Total # of shared locations (hotspots) added to 10 new pages is 11 bringing
the total coverage to 1,723 hotspots or 28.8% of 5,984 for New York State.

*Greene County *
• Coxsackie Flats (2)
• Coxsackie Boat Launch
• Coxsackie Creek Grassland Preserve
• Dutchman's Landing
• Four Mile Point Preserve
• Hannacroix Creek Preserve
• Inbocht Bay
• North-South Lake Campground
• RamsHorn-Livingston Sanctuary
• Vosburgh Swamp WMA--Vosburgh Swamp

*Google Map Directions*
The 'Google Map Directions' link on the wiki are linked to a nearby parking
lot or near the south or east end of the location based on the thinking
that keeping sun behind you when starting out is best.

If you know of a better parking place please zoom in on this location on
Google Maps and send the URL to me offline.
-- 
Ben Cacace
Manhattan, NYC
Wiki for NYS eBird Hotspots

Facebook Discussion for NYS eBird Hotspots: Q & A


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Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[Deborah Allen]

The European Goldfinches should be entered into ebird, especially if there is any evidence of breeding, so their populations can be monitored.Deb Allen-Original Message-
From: nathan o'reilly 
Sent: Dec 19, 2017 4:55 AM
To: Ben Cacace 
Cc: NYSBIRDS-L , eBirds NYC 
Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)






Prospect Park/Brooklyn birders: Have any of you seen them more recently and do you enter the European Goldfinch  into ebird when you see them? I know some birders do not consider them "wild" so they do not report them to ebird. 

Cool sightings for Gov Island though. It is unfortunate to be closed off to the public over the winter. 


Nate



Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 19, 2017, at 4:48 AM, Ben Cacace  wrote:






Unfortunately the island is closed to the public until May 1st but I was very lucky to get invited to the island yesterday.







There was a small flock of European Goldfinch in Hammock Grove of ~12 birds and a small group of 5 (same birds?) seen off Nolan Park later in the
 day.






I was looking into European Goldfinch sightings on eBird and the most recent one in the area is from Prospect Park on Nov 26th of one bird. The only
 sightings "locally" are from Bermuda and points north of Chicago. The number of individuals from the Lake Michigan group are no higher than 8 individuals for sightings between Nov-Dec of this year.







European Goldfinch: Current Year Map for Nov-Dec


•
https://tinyurl.com/y7yg59yx


... zoom out to view sightings from Bermuda.






Is the most likely explanation that these are a new set of escaped birds? Or could the weather have had an effect on local populations? They understood
 Sweetgums as a food source and the birds were very vocal. How quickly do newly escaped birds take to Sweetgum Trees?






You can see photos on Cathy Weiner's eBird checklist:


•
http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist/S41179158






--







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Manhattan, NYC
Wiki for NYS eBird Hotspots
Facebook Discussion for NYS eBird Hotspots: Q & A





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Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[brian . whipple]

I’m 95% sure that European Goldfinches (like Budgies) won’t show up on
anyone’s eBird NY State life list even if you keep the species in your
regular checklists. eBird knows what to count/not count in that respect.

On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 12:38 PM Deborah Allen 
wrote:

> The European Goldfinches should be entered into ebird, especially if there
> is any evidence of breeding, so their populations can be monitored.
>
> Deb Allen
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: nathan o'reilly
> Sent: Dec 19, 2017 4:55 AM
> To: Ben Cacace
> Cc: NYSBIRDS-L , eBirds NYC
> Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock
> (18-Dec)
>
> Prospect Park/Brooklyn birders: Have any of you seen them more recently
> and do you enter the European Goldfinch  into ebird when you see them? I
> know some birders do not consider them "wild" so they do not report them to
> ebird.
>
> Cool sightings for Gov Island though. It is unfortunate to be closed off
> to the public over the winter.
>
> Nate
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 19, 2017, at 4:48 AM, Ben Cacace  wrote:
>
> Unfortunately the island is closed to the public until May 1st but I was
> very lucky to get invited to the island yesterday.
>
> There was a small flock of European Goldfinch in Hammock Grove of ~12
> birds and a small group of 5 (same birds?) seen off Nolan Park later in the
> day.
>
> I was looking into European Goldfinch sightings on eBird and the most
> recent one in the area is from Prospect Park on Nov 26th of one bird. The
> only sightings "locally" are from Bermuda and points north of Chicago. The
> number of individuals from the Lake Michigan group are no higher than 8
> individuals for sightings between Nov-Dec of this year.
>
> European Goldfinch: Current Year Map for Nov-Dec
> • https://tinyurl.com/y7yg59yx
> ... zoom out to view sightings from Bermuda.
>
> Is the most likely explanation that these are a new set of escaped birds?
> Or could the weather have had an effect on local populations? They
> understood Sweetgums as a food source and the birds were very vocal. How
> quickly do newly escaped birds take to Sweetgum Trees?
>
> You can see photos on Cathy Weiner's eBird checklist:
> • http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist/S41179158
>
> --
> Ben Cacace
> Manhattan, NYC
> Wiki for NYS eBird Hotspots
> 
> Facebook Discussion for NYS eBird Hotspots: Q & A
> 
> --
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> Rules and Information 
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> 
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> *Please submit your observations to **eBird*
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Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[brian . whipple]

The umpteen responses I’ve gotten to the contrary are why I hedged my
sureness.

Does anyone know the proper protocol for entering escapees on checklists
(benefitting science) without having them inaccurately show up on lifelists
(benefitting type-A listers)?

Also, I know some of my Central Park checklists include Budgies, but
there’s no Budgie on my NYS life list, so I must have done something right.

Thanks!

On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 12:47 PM  wrote:

> I’m 95% sure that European Goldfinches (like Budgies) won’t show up on
> anyone’s eBird NY State life list even if you keep the species in your
> regular checklists. eBird knows what to count/not count in that respect.
>
> On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 12:38 PM Deborah Allen 
> wrote:
>
>> The European Goldfinches should be entered into ebird, especially if
>> there is any evidence of breeding, so their populations can be monitored.
>>
>> Deb Allen
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: nathan o'reilly
>> Sent: Dec 19, 2017 4:55 AM
>> To: Ben Cacace
>> Cc: NYSBIRDS-L , eBirds NYC
>> Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock
>> (18-Dec)
>>
>> Prospect Park/Brooklyn birders: Have any of you seen them more recently
>> and do you enter the European Goldfinch  into ebird when you see them? I
>> know some birders do not consider them "wild" so they do not report them to
>> ebird.
>>
>> Cool sightings for Gov Island though. It is unfortunate to be closed off
>> to the public over the winter.
>>
>> Nate
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Dec 19, 2017, at 4:48 AM, Ben Cacace  wrote:
>>
>> Unfortunately the island is closed to the public until May 1st but I was
>> very lucky to get invited to the island yesterday.
>>
>> There was a small flock of European Goldfinch in Hammock Grove of ~12
>> birds and a small group of 5 (same birds?) seen off Nolan Park later in the
>> day.
>>
>> I was looking into European Goldfinch sightings on eBird and the most
>> recent one in the area is from Prospect Park on Nov 26th of one bird. The
>> only sightings "locally" are from Bermuda and points north of Chicago. The
>> number of individuals from the Lake Michigan group are no higher than 8
>> individuals for sightings between Nov-Dec of this year.
>>
>> European Goldfinch: Current Year Map for Nov-Dec
>> • https://tinyurl.com/y7yg59yx
>> ... zoom out to view sightings from Bermuda.
>>
>> Is the most likely explanation that these are a new set of escaped birds?
>> Or could the weather have had an effect on local populations? They
>> understood Sweetgums as a food source and the birds were very vocal. How
>> quickly do newly escaped birds take to Sweetgum Trees?
>>
>> You can see photos on Cathy Weiner's eBird checklist:
>> • http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist/S41179158
>>
>> --
>> Ben Cacace
>> Manhattan, NYC
>> Wiki for NYS eBird Hotspots
>> 
>> Facebook Discussion for NYS eBird Hotspots: Q & A
>> 
>> --
>> *NYSbirds-L List Info:*
>> Welcome and Basics 
>> Rules and Information 
>> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
>> 
>> *Archives:*
>> The Mail Archive
>> 
>> Surfbirds 
>> ABA 
>> *Please submit your observations to **eBird*
>> *!*
>> --
>>
>> --
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>> Welcome and Basics 
>> Rules and Information 
>> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
>> 
>> *Archives:*
>> The Mail Archive
>> 
>> Surfbirds 
>> ABA 
>> *Please submit your observations to **eBird*
>> *!*
>> --
>>
>> --
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>> Rules and Information 
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>> 
>> *Archives:*
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>> 
>> Surfbirds 
>> ABA 
>> *Please submit your observations to **eBird*
>> *!*
>> --
>>
> --
> BTW
>
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Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[David Barrett]

The proper way to enter escaped exotics on eBird lists is to select the
domestic version. For example, if you search eBird for Budgerigar you will
also get Budgerigar (Domestic). Choose the latter.

David Barrett
Manhattan

On Dec 19, 2017 1:16 PM,  wrote:

> The umpteen responses I’ve gotten to the contrary are why I hedged my
> sureness.
>
> Does anyone know the proper protocol for entering escapees on checklists
> (benefitting science) without having them inaccurately show up on lifelists
> (benefitting type-A listers)?
>
> Also, I know some of my Central Park checklists include Budgies, but
> there’s no Budgie on my NYS life list, so I must have done something right.
>
> Thanks!
>
> On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 12:47 PM  wrote:
>
>> I’m 95% sure that European Goldfinches (like Budgies) won’t show up on
>> anyone’s eBird NY State life list even if you keep the species in your
>> regular checklists. eBird knows what to count/not count in that respect.
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 12:38 PM Deborah Allen 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The European Goldfinches should be entered into ebird, especially if
>>> there is any evidence of breeding, so their populations can be monitored.
>>>
>>> Deb Allen
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: nathan o'reilly
>>> Sent: Dec 19, 2017 4:55 AM
>>> To: Ben Cacace
>>> Cc: NYSBIRDS-L , eBirds NYC
>>> Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock
>>> (18-Dec)
>>>
>>> Prospect Park/Brooklyn birders: Have any of you seen them more recently
>>> and do you enter the European Goldfinch  into ebird when you see them? I
>>> know some birders do not consider them "wild" so they do not report them to
>>> ebird.
>>>
>>> Cool sightings for Gov Island though. It is unfortunate to be closed off
>>> to the public over the winter.
>>>
>>> Nate
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Dec 19, 2017, at 4:48 AM, Ben Cacace  wrote:
>>>
>>> Unfortunately the island is closed to the public until May 1st but I was
>>> very lucky to get invited to the island yesterday.
>>>
>>> There was a small flock of European Goldfinch in Hammock Grove of ~12
>>> birds and a small group of 5 (same birds?) seen off Nolan Park later in the
>>> day.
>>>
>>> I was looking into European Goldfinch sightings on eBird and the most
>>> recent one in the area is from Prospect Park on Nov 26th of one bird. The
>>> only sightings "locally" are from Bermuda and points north of Chicago. The
>>> number of individuals from the Lake Michigan group are no higher than 8
>>> individuals for sightings between Nov-Dec of this year.
>>>
>>> European Goldfinch: Current Year Map for Nov-Dec
>>> • https://tinyurl.com/y7yg59yx
>>> ... zoom out to view sightings from Bermuda.
>>>
>>> Is the most likely explanation that these are a new set of escaped
>>> birds? Or could the weather have had an effect on local populations? They
>>> understood Sweetgums as a food source and the birds were very vocal. How
>>> quickly do newly escaped birds take to Sweetgum Trees?
>>>
>>> You can see photos on Cathy Weiner's eBird checklist:
>>> • http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist/S41179158
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ben Cacace
>>> Manhattan, NYC
>>> Wiki for NYS eBird Hotspots
>>> 
>>> Facebook Discussion for NYS eBird Hotspots: Q & A
>>> 
>>> --
>>> *NYSbirds-L List Info:*
>>> Welcome and Basics 
>>> Rules and Information
>>> 
>>> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
>>> 
>>> *Archives:*
>>> The Mail Archive
>>> 
>>> Surfbirds 
>>> ABA 
>>> *Please submit your observations to **eBird*
>>> *!*
>>> --
>>>
>>> --
>>> *NYSbirds-L List Info:*
>>> Welcome and Basics 
>>> Rules and Information
>>> 
>>> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
>>> 
>>> *Archives:*
>>> The Mail Archive
>>> 
>>> Surfbirds 
>>> ABA 
>>> *Please submit your observations to **eBird*
>>> *!*
>>> --
>>>
>>> --
>>> *NYSbirds-L List Info:*
>>> Welcome and Basics 
>>> Rules and Information
>>> 
>>> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
>>> 
>>> *Archives:*
>>> The Mail Archive
>>> 

Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[nathan o'reilly]

Although some species do not have a Domestic option like the Yellow-fronted 
Canaries I've had a couple times in Manhattan and told by an ebird reviewed to 
add them. I hope to rectify my life list by getting them in the wild this 
summer.

Seems like most people don't know this about the Domestic option for the 
Muscovy Ducks in CP.

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 19, 2017, at 1:31 PM, David Barrett 
mailto:mil...@gmail.com>> wrote:

The proper way to enter escaped exotics on eBird lists is to select the 
domestic version. For example, if you search eBird for Budgerigar you will also 
get Budgerigar (Domestic). Choose the latter.

David Barrett
Manhattan

On Dec 19, 2017 1:16 PM, 
mailto:brian.whip...@gmail.com>> wrote:
The umpteen responses I’ve gotten to the contrary are why I hedged my sureness.

Does anyone know the proper protocol for entering escapees on checklists 
(benefitting science) without having them inaccurately show up on lifelists 
(benefitting type-A listers)?

Also, I know some of my Central Park checklists include Budgies, but there’s no 
Budgie on my NYS life list, so I must have done something right.

Thanks!

On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 12:47 PM 
mailto:brian.whip...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I’m 95% sure that European Goldfinches (like Budgies) won’t show up on anyone’s 
eBird NY State life list even if you keep the species in your regular 
checklists. eBird knows what to count/not count in that respect.

On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 12:38 PM Deborah Allen 
mailto:dalle...@earthlink.net>> wrote:
The European Goldfinches should be entered into ebird, especially if there is 
any evidence of breeding, so their populations can be monitored.

Deb Allen


-Original Message-
From: nathan o'reilly
Sent: Dec 19, 2017 4:55 AM
To: Ben Cacace
Cc: NYSBIRDS-L , eBirds NYC
Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

Prospect Park/Brooklyn birders: Have any of you seen them more recently and do 
you enter the European Goldfinch  into ebird when you see them? I know some 
birders do not consider them "wild" so they do not report them to ebird.

Cool sightings for Gov Island though. It is unfortunate to be closed off to the 
public over the winter.

Nate


Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 19, 2017, at 4:48 AM, Ben Cacace 
mailto:bcac...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Unfortunately the island is closed to the public until May 1st but I was very 
lucky to get invited to the island yesterday.

There was a small flock of European Goldfinch in Hammock Grove of ~12 birds and 
a small group of 5 (same birds?) seen off Nolan Park later in the day.

I was looking into European Goldfinch sightings on eBird and the most recent 
one in the area is from Prospect Park on Nov 26th of one bird. The only 
sightings "locally" are from Bermuda and points north of Chicago. The number of 
individuals from the Lake Michigan group are no higher than 8 individuals for 
sightings between Nov-Dec of this year.

European Goldfinch: Current Year Map for Nov-Dec
• https://tinyurl.com/y7yg59yx
... zoom out to view sightings from Bermuda.

Is the most likely explanation that these are a new set of escaped birds? Or 
could the weather have had an effect on local populations? They understood 
Sweetgums as a food source and the birds were very vocal. How quickly do newly 
escaped birds take to Sweetgum Trees?

You can see photos on Cathy Weiner's eBird checklist:
• http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist/S41179158

--
Ben Cacace
Manhattan, NYC
Wiki for NYS eBird 
Hotspots
Facebook Discussion for NYS eBird Hotspots: Q & 
A
--
NYSbirds-L List Info:
Welcome and Basics
Rules and Information
Subscribe, Configuration and 
Leave
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Archive
Surfbirds
ABA
Please submit your observations to eBird!
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Rules and Information
Subscribe, Configuration and 
Leave
Archives:
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Archive
Surfbirds
ABA
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Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[Joshua Malbin]

European Goldfinch seems to be one of those species without a Domestic
option.

On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 1:37 PM nathan o'reilly 
wrote:

> Although some species do not have a Domestic option like the
> Yellow-fronted Canaries I've had a couple times in Manhattan and told by an
> ebird reviewed to add them. I hope to rectify my life list by getting them
> in the wild this summer.
>
> Seems like most people don't know this about the Domestic option for the
> Muscovy Ducks in CP.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 19, 2017, at 1:31 PM, David Barrett  wrote:
>
> The proper way to enter escaped exotics on eBird lists is to select the
> domestic version. For example, if you search eBird for Budgerigar you will
> also get Budgerigar (Domestic). Choose the latter.
>
> David Barrett
> Manhattan
>
> On Dec 19, 2017 1:16 PM,  wrote:
>
>> The umpteen responses I’ve gotten to the contrary are why I hedged my
>> sureness.
>>
>> Does anyone know the proper protocol for entering escapees on checklists
>> (benefitting science) without having them inaccurately show up on lifelists
>> (benefitting type-A listers)?
>>
>> Also, I know some of my Central Park checklists include Budgies, but
>> there’s no Budgie on my NYS life list, so I must have done something right.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 12:47 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> I’m 95% sure that European Goldfinches (like Budgies) won’t show up on
>>> anyone’s eBird NY State life list even if you keep the species in your
>>> regular checklists. eBird knows what to count/not count in that respect.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 12:38 PM Deborah Allen 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 The European Goldfinches should be entered into ebird, especially if
 there is any evidence of breeding, so their populations can be monitored.

 Deb Allen


 -Original Message-
 From: nathan o'reilly
 Sent: Dec 19, 2017 4:55 AM
 To: Ben Cacace
 Cc: NYSBIRDS-L , eBirds NYC
 Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock
 (18-Dec)

 Prospect Park/Brooklyn birders: Have any of you seen them more recently
 and do you enter the European Goldfinch  into ebird when you see them? I
 know some birders do not consider them "wild" so they do not report them to
 ebird.

 Cool sightings for Gov Island though. It is unfortunate to be closed
 off to the public over the winter.

 Nate


 Sent from my iPhone

 On Dec 19, 2017, at 4:48 AM, Ben Cacace  wrote:

 Unfortunately the island is closed to the public until May 1st but I
 was very lucky to get invited to the island yesterday.

 There was a small flock of European Goldfinch in Hammock Grove of ~12
 birds and a small group of 5 (same birds?) seen off Nolan Park later in the
 day.

 I was looking into European Goldfinch sightings on eBird and the most
 recent one in the area is from Prospect Park on Nov 26th of one bird. The
 only sightings "locally" are from Bermuda and points north of Chicago. The
 number of individuals from the Lake Michigan group are no higher than 8
 individuals for sightings between Nov-Dec of this year.

 European Goldfinch: Current Year Map for Nov-Dec
 • https://tinyurl.com/y7yg59yx
 ... zoom out to view sightings from Bermuda.

 Is the most likely explanation that these are a new set of escaped
 birds? Or could the weather have had an effect on local populations? They
 understood Sweetgums as a food source and the birds were very vocal. How
 quickly do newly escaped birds take to Sweetgum Trees?

 You can see photos on Cathy Weiner's eBird checklist:
 • http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist/S41179158

 --
 Ben Cacace
 Manhattan, NYC
 Wiki for NYS eBird Hotspots
 
 Facebook Discussion for NYS eBird Hotspots: Q & A
 
 --
 *NYSbirds-L List Info:*
 Welcome and Basics
 
 Rules and Information
 
 Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
 
 *Archives:*
 The Mail Archive
 
 Surfbirds 
 ABA 
 *Please submit your observations to **eBird*
 *!*
 --

 --
 *NYSbirds-L List Info:*
 Welcome and Basics
 
 Rules and Information
 
 Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
 

[nysbirds-l] OCWA or MGWA

[Cesar Castillo]

Dear All,
I have posted the original images on flicker.  I have not messed with the 
photos except in increasing their sharpness.  I can see how this could be an 
orange-crowned warbler, however I remember seeing a grey hood that extended 
quite a bit, Carry Laben and I immediately thought Mourning W until we looked 
at the photos and thought MacGillivray's.  Memory is fickle though when it 
comes to details, I don't tend to just trust mine without evidence.  The hood, 
if it is real is most notable in the 2nd and 7th link below.  
Thank you all, it's too bad no one else has been able to see it.  I attempted 
to find it on Monday morning, but there was active construction in the location 
where it was found, and most of the snow in the park had melted, giving this 
bird and all the other birds found in the same spot ample opportunity to find 
food elsewhere. 
OCWA or MGWA


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OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
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OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
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OCWA or MGWA


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OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
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OCWA or MGWA


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OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
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OCWA or MGWA


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OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
 |

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OCWA or MGWA


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OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
 |

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OCWA or MGWA


| 
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|  |  |

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OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
 |

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OCWA or MGWA


| 
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|  |  |

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|  | 
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
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OCWA or MGWA


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|  | 
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
 |

 |

 |




César 
Una tarde la princesa  vio una estrella aparecer;  la princesa era traviesa  y 
la quiso ir a coger.  
La quería para hacerla  decorar un prendedor,  con un verso y una perla,  una 
pluma y una flor.  
Las princesas primorosas  se parecen mucho a ti;  cortan lirios, cortan rosas,  
cortan astros. Son así.
-A Margarita Debayle (To Margarita Debayle) by Ruben Dario
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Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[Angus Wilson]

For European Goldfinch I suspect 'domesticated' isn't an option. Same for
other known or presumed escapes or deliberate releases that occur with
regularity in NYS (e.g. Chukar and various non-domesticated waterfowl).
Personally, I think tracking these potential colonizers is important and
interesting. Simply invalidating them or discouraging reporting isn't a
good solution. Issues with list purity can be a separate conversation,
decoupled from the scientific uses of this information.

Angus Wilson
New York City, NY

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Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[nathan o'reilly]

And I believe that is why the ebird reviewers ask you to include them. That way 
they can get an idea of what other species are out there competing for food and 
habitat.



Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 19, 2017, at 1:50 PM, Angus Wilson 
mailto:oceanwander...@gmail.com>> wrote:

For European Goldfinch I suspect 'domesticated' isn't an option. Same for other 
known or presumed escapes or deliberate releases that occur with regularity in 
NYS (e.g. Chukar and various non-domesticated waterfowl). Personally, I think 
tracking these potential colonizers is important and interesting. Simply 
invalidating them or discouraging reporting isn't a good solution. Issues with 
list purity can be a separate conversation, decoupled from the scientific uses 
of this information.

Angus Wilson
New York City, NY
--
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Subscribe, Configuration and 
Leave
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Archive
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ABA
Please submit your observations to eBird!
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Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[Dominic Garcia-Hall]

I believe they don’t count on county/state lists or users' lists, even if
you report them as regular species taxa (or if they don't have a domestic
designation in the first place). If you tick a Black Swan in Australia,
you'll see your list go up by one. If you tick it in NJ, you won't, even if
you enter it without the feral/domestic moniker.
The eBird algorithm 'decides' where it's apprpriate from a listing
perspective. At least that was my understanding I might be wrong.

*Dominic Garcia-Hall*

*www.antbirds.com *

*NY  +1 917 740 1945*
*UK  +44 161 408 4002*

On Tue, 19 Dec 2017 at 18:53, nathan o'reilly  wrote:

> And I believe that is why the ebird reviewers ask you to include them.
> That way they can get an idea of what other species are out there competing
> for food and habitat.
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 19, 2017, at 1:50 PM, Angus Wilson 
> wrote:
>
> For European Goldfinch I suspect 'domesticated' isn't an option. Same for
> other known or presumed escapes or deliberate releases that occur with
> regularity in NYS (e.g. Chukar and various non-domesticated waterfowl).
> Personally, I think tracking these potential colonizers is important and
> interesting. Simply invalidating them or discouraging reporting isn't a
> good solution. Issues with list purity can be a separate conversation,
> decoupled from the scientific uses of this information.
>
> Angus Wilson
> New York City, NY
> --
> *NYSbirds-L List Info:*
> Welcome and Basics 
> Rules and Information 
> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
> 
> *Archives:*
> The Mail Archive
> 
> Surfbirds 
> ABA 
> *Please submit your observations to **eBird*
> *!*
> --
>
> --
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> Welcome and Basics 
> Rules and Information 
> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
> 
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> 
> Surfbirds 
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Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[nathan o'reilly]

Unfortunately, my life list has both a Brooklyn European Goldfinch and a 
Manhattan Yellow-fronted Canary on it.

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 19, 2017, at 2:08 PM, Dominic Garcia-Hall 
mailto:dominic.h...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I believe they don’t count on county/state lists or users' lists, even if you 
report them as regular species taxa (or if they don't have a domestic 
designation in the first place). If you tick a Black Swan in Australia, you'll 
see your list go up by one. If you tick it in NJ, you won't, even if you enter 
it without the feral/domestic moniker.
The eBird algorithm 'decides' where it's apprpriate from a listing perspective. 
At least that was my understanding I might be wrong.

Dominic Garcia-Hall

www.antbirds.com

NY  +1 917 740 1945
UK  +44 161 408 4002

On Tue, 19 Dec 2017 at 18:53, nathan o'reilly 
mailto:natro...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
And I believe that is why the ebird reviewers ask you to include them. That way 
they can get an idea of what other species are out there competing for food and 
habitat.



Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 19, 2017, at 1:50 PM, Angus Wilson 
mailto:oceanwander...@gmail.com>> wrote:

For European Goldfinch I suspect 'domesticated' isn't an option. Same for other 
known or presumed escapes or deliberate releases that occur with regularity in 
NYS (e.g. Chukar and various non-domesticated waterfowl). Personally, I think 
tracking these potential colonizers is important and interesting. Simply 
invalidating them or discouraging reporting isn't a good solution. Issues with 
list purity can be a separate conversation, decoupled from the scientific uses 
of this information.

Angus Wilson
New York City, NY
--
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--
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Leave
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Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[John Laver]

"Personally, I think tracking these potential colonizers is important and
interesting. Simply invalidating them or discouraging reporting isn't a
good solution."

Agreed, particularly as range flux is likely to accelerate in ways we'll
need to observe and measure as climate changes take hold.  We need to think
about the Big Picture.

John Laver
Manhattan

On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 1:50 PM, Angus Wilson 
wrote:

> For European Goldfinch I suspect 'domesticated' isn't an option. Same for
> other known or presumed escapes or deliberate releases that occur with
> regularity in NYS (e.g. Chukar and various non-domesticated waterfowl).
> Personally, I think tracking these potential colonizers is important and
> interesting. Simply invalidating them or discouraging reporting isn't a
> good solution. Issues with list purity can be a separate conversation,
> decoupled from the scientific uses of this information.
>
> Angus Wilson
> New York City, NY
> --
> *NYSbirds-L List Info:*
> Welcome and Basics 
> Rules and Information 
> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
> 
> *Archives:*
> The Mail Archive
> 
> Surfbirds 
> ABA 
> *Please submit your observations to **eBird*
> *!*
> --
>



-- 
*John L*

*You could not step twice into the same river.*

*Heraclitus of Ephesus*

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Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[Dominic Garcia-Hall]

Oh, weird, I am indeed wrong then ;)
Wouldn’t be hard to automate a rule in eBird that folllowed ABA protocol on
what’s countable or not?

*Dominic Garcia-Hall*

*www.antbirds.com *

*NY  +1 917 740 1945*
*UK  +44 161 408 4002*

On 19 December 2017 at 19:11, nathan o'reilly  wrote:

> Unfortunately, my life list has both a Brooklyn European Goldfinch and a
> Manhattan Yellow-fronted Canary on it.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 19, 2017, at 2:08 PM, Dominic Garcia-Hall 
> wrote:
>
> I believe they don’t count on county/state lists or users' lists, even if
> you report them as regular species taxa (or if they don't have a domestic
> designation in the first place). If you tick a Black Swan in Australia,
> you'll see your list go up by one. If you tick it in NJ, you won't, even if
> you enter it without the feral/domestic moniker.
> The eBird algorithm 'decides' where it's apprpriate from a listing
> perspective. At least that was my understanding I might be wrong.
>
> * Dominic Garcia-Hall*
>
> *www.antbirds.com *
>
> *NY  +1 917 740 1945 <(917)%20740-1945>*
> *UK  +44 161 408 4002 <+44%20161%20408%204002>*
>
> On Tue, 19 Dec 2017 at 18:53, nathan o'reilly 
> wrote:
>
>> And I believe that is why the ebird reviewers ask you to include them.
>> That way they can get an idea of what other species are out there competing
>> for food and habitat.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Dec 19, 2017, at 1:50 PM, Angus Wilson 
>> wrote:
>>
>> For European Goldfinch I suspect 'domesticated' isn't an option. Same for
>> other known or presumed escapes or deliberate releases that occur with
>> regularity in NYS (e.g. Chukar and various non-domesticated waterfowl).
>> Personally, I think tracking these potential colonizers is important and
>> interesting. Simply invalidating them or discouraging reporting isn't a
>> good solution. Issues with list purity can be a separate conversation,
>> decoupled from the scientific uses of this information.
>>
>> Angus Wilson
>> New York City, NY
>> --
>> *NYSbirds-L List Info:*
>> Welcome and Basics 
>> Rules and Information 
>> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
>> 
>> *Archives:*
>> The Mail Archive
>> 
>> Surfbirds 
>> ABA 
>> *Please submit your observations to **eBird*
>> *!*
>> --
>>
>> --
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>> Welcome and Basics 
>> Rules and Information 
>> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
>> 
>> *Archives:*
>> The Mail Archive
>> 
>> Surfbirds 
>> ABA 
>> *Please submit your observations to **eBird*
>> *!*
>> --
>>
>
-- 
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Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[David Barrett]

There is a simple solution that will satisfy the "report everything"
contingent and still keep your eBird list free of canaries: create another
free eBird account for this (and perhaps other) purposes.

Have this account opt out of the Top Birders list and possibly also out of
Rare Bird Alert reporting. You can easily move the small number of
observations of exotics from your regular account (that do not have
domestic versions to which you can switch) to this other one if you already
have them -- just enter them on the new account and delete them from the
old one.

There might be some debate as to how the European Goldfinch should be
treated. It has been in the United States (and New York State) since the
19th century, though not continuously.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/4078260?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

It has been observed to be nesting in the midwest since 2006:

http://ebird.org/content/atlaswi/news/species-survey-strategy-recently-introduced-european-songbirds/

I have raised the issue of having eBird use the state ABA list for managing
what is eligible for county and state eBird lists, but this is not a
short-term priority so do not expect the policy to change any time soon.
You need to manage your eBird list yourself.

David Barrett
Manhattan

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RE: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[Shaibal Mitra]

I agree strongly with John and Angus. The consequences for the eBird Hot 100 
are at most not very important and at least potentially amusing. I thought 
everybody knew they were supposed to keep track of their own lists, rather than 
to trust in the algorithms of strangers!

More specifically, regarding European Goldfinches in the New York City area 
now, the numbers of birds present and the area occupied are large enough to 
suggest establishment. Perhaps not everybody is aware that this species 
established breeding populations on western Long Island for decades. It is even 
conceivable that these were never completely extirpated, and that today's birds 
derive at least in part from those naturalized populations (but they are 
certainly at least partly derived from recent escapes, as proven by the 
presence of plastic leg bands on some). The best argument against the 
hypothesis of demographic continuity between the period of establishment and 
the current resurgence in reported abundance is that very few or none were 
reported for several decades. But this is at best a weak argument from negative 
data that are known to be systematically biased against reporting. 

Monk Parakeets provide a parallel example that is very instructive. This 
species established breeding populations in the New York City/Long Island 
region that were fairly large and widespread by the early 1970s. These were 
subjected to eradication programs during the mid-1970s, and perceptions shifted 
to the extent that NYSARC acted (overly boldly in my opinion) to remove the 
species from the official New York State Checklist in 1982. Reports almost 
ceased during this period, but we know in this case that the gap in documented 
occurrence was an error arising from two sources: because backyard birders who 
liked the parakeets concealed their presence to protect them from destruction; 
but also because the remaining birds were perceived as "not countable" by 
competitive birders. 

Today's thread illustrates that under-reporting of "not countable" species has 
persisted in birding culture, to the detriment of our ability to infer the 
actual statuses of non-native species.

Shai Mitra
Bay Shore

From: bounce-122144147-11143...@list.cornell.edu 
[bounce-122144147-11143...@list.cornell.edu] on behalf of John Laver 
[eart...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 2:20 PM
To: Angus Wilson
Cc: NYSBIRDS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

"Personally, I think tracking these potential colonizers is important and 
interesting. Simply invalidating them or discouraging reporting isn't a good 
solution."

Agreed, particularly as range flux is likely to accelerate in ways we'll need 
to observe and measure as climate changes take hold.  We need to think about 
the Big Picture.

John Laver
Manhattan

On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 1:50 PM, Angus Wilson 
mailto:oceanwander...@gmail.com>> wrote:
For European Goldfinch I suspect 'domesticated' isn't an option. Same for other 
known or presumed escapes or deliberate releases that occur with regularity in 
NYS (e.g. Chukar and various non-domesticated waterfowl). Personally, I think 
tracking these potential colonizers is important and interesting. Simply 
invalidating them or discouraging reporting isn't a good solution. Issues with 
list purity can be a separate conversation, decoupled from the scientific uses 
of this information.

Angus Wilson
New York City, NY
--

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RE: [nysbirds-l] OCWA or MGWA

[Shaibal Mitra]

Hi Cesar and all,

Very cool-looking bird!

I think its overall shape (and particularly its very finely pointed bill) and 
manners suggest Orange-crowned Warbler. I also think that a MacGillivray's 
Warbler would show a thicker, blacker loral stripe.

Finally, the whitish edges to the tips of the primaries are a typical feature 
of Orange-crowned Warbler, and one that I can't recall seeing on things like 
Mourning Warbler or Common Yellowthroat, whcih MacGillivray's would be expected 
to resemble.

Shai Mitra
Bay Shore

From: bounce-122143179-11143...@list.cornell.edu 
[bounce-122143179-11143...@list.cornell.edu] on behalf of Cesar Castillo 
[czar3...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 1:46 PM
To: EBirds NYC; NYSBIRDS-L
Subject: [nysbirds-l] OCWA or MGWA

Dear All,

I have posted the original images on flicker.  I have not messed with the 
photos except in increasing their sharpness.  I can see how this could be an 
orange-crowned warbler, however I remember seeing a grey hood that extended 
quite a bit, Carry Laben and I immediately thought Mourning W until we looked 
at the photos and thought MacGillivray's.  Memory is fickle though when it 
comes to details, I don't tend to just trust mine without evidence.  The hood, 
if it is real is most notable in the 2nd and 7th link below.

Thank you all, it's too bad no one else has been able to see it.  I attempted 
to find it on Monday morning, but there was active construction in the location 
where it was found, and most of the snow in the park had melted, giving this 
bird and all the other birds found in the same spot ample opportunity to find 
food elsewhere.

OCWA or 
MGWA






[https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017












[https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017




OCWA or 
MGWA






[https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017





OCWA or 
MGWA






[https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017




OCWA or 
MGWA






[https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017




OCWA or 
MGWA






[https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017





OCWA or 
MGWA






[https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017





OCWA or 
MGWA






[https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017




OCWA or 
MGWA






[https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017






César

Una tarde la princesa  vio una estrella aparecer;  la princesa era traviesa  y 
la quiso ir a coger.
La quería para hacerla  decorar un prendedor,  con un verso y una perla,  una 
pluma y una flor.
Las princesas primorosas  se parecen mucho a ti;  cortan lirios, cortan rosas,  
cortan astros. Son así.
-A Margarita Debayle (To 

RE: [nysbirds-l] OCWA or MGWA

[Patricia Lindsay]

And please allow me to clarify that I have no idea why it is circulating 
that I put the blessing on the ID as MacGillivray's after having a 
single 2 second look at a tiny image on someone's phone on Sunday. My 
reaction was simply a "wow" and I never pursued it further.



Patricia Lindsay
Bay Shore


On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 03:16 PM, Shaibal Mitra wrote:

> Hi Cesar and all,
>
> Very cool-looking bird!
>
> I think its overall shape (and particularly its very finely pointed 
> bill) and manners suggest Orange-crowned Warbler. I also think that a 
> MacGillivray's Warbler would show a thicker, blacker loral stripe.
>
> Finally, the whitish edges to the tips of the primaries are a typical 
> feature of Orange-crowned Warbler, and one that I can't recall seeing 
> on things like Mourning Warbler or Common Yellowthroat, whcih 
> MacGillivray's would be expected to resemble.
>
> Shai Mitra
> Bay Shore
> 
> From: bounce-122143179-11143...@list.cornell.edu 
> [bounce-122143179-11143...@list.cornell.edu] on behalf of Cesar 
> Castillo [czar3...@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 1:46 PM
> To: EBirds NYC; NYSBIRDS-L
> Subject: [nysbirds-l] OCWA or MGWA
>
> Dear All,
>
> I have posted the original images on flicker.  I have not messed with 
> the photos except in increasing their sharpness.  I can see how this 
> could be an orange-crowned warbler, however I remember seeing a grey 
> hood that extended quite a bit, Carry Laben and I immediately thought 
> Mourning W until we looked at the photos and thought MacGillivray's. 
> Memory is fickle though when it comes to details, I don't tend to just 
> trust mine without evidence.  The hood, if it is real is most notable 
> in the 2nd and 7th link below.
>
> Thank you all, it's too bad no one else has been able to see it.  I 
> attempted to find it on Monday morning, but there was active 
> construction in the location where it was found, and most of the snow 
> in the park had melted, giving this bird and all the other birds found 
> in the same spot ample opportunity to find food elsewhere.
>
> OCWA or MGWA
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
> OCWA or MGWA
>
> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 
> 12/17/2017
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
> OCWA or MGWA
>
> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 
> 12/17/2017
>
>
>
>
> OCWA or MGWA
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
> OCWA or MGWA
>
> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 
> 12/17/2017
>
>
>
>
>
> OCWA or MGWA
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
> OCWA or MGWA
>
> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 
> 12/17/2017
>
>
>
>
> OCWA or MGWA
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
> OCWA or MGWA
>
> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 
> 12/17/2017
>
>
>
>
> OCWA or MGWA
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
> OCWA or MGWA
>
> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 
> 12/17/2017
>
>
>
>
>
> OCWA or MGWA
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
> OCWA or MGWA
>
> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 
> 12/17/2017
>
>
>
>
>
> OCWA or MGWA
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
> OCWA or MGWA
>
> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 
> 12/17/2017
>
>
>
>
> OCWA or MGWA
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
> OCWA or MGWA
>
> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 
> 12/17/2017
>
>
>
>
>
>
> César
>
> Una tarde la princesa  vio una estrella aparecer;  la princesa era 
> traviesa  y la quiso ir a coger.
> La quería para hacerla  decorar un prendedor,  con un verso y una 
> perla,  una pluma y una flor.
> Las princesas primorosas  se parecen mucho a ti;  cortan lirios, 
> cortan rosas,  cortan astros. Son así.
> -A Margarita Debayle (To Margarita Debayle) by Ruben Dario
> --
> NYSbirds-L List Info:
> Welcome and Basics
> Rules and Information
> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
> Archives:
> The Mail Archive
> Surfbirds
> ABA
> Please submit your observations to eBird!
> --
>
> --
>
> NYSbirds-L List Info:
> http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME.htm
> http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES.htm
> 
> http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm
>
> ARCHIVES:
> 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html
> 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L
> 3) http://birding.aba.org/maillist/NY01
>
> Please submit your observations to eBird:
> 

Re: [nysbirds-l] OCWA or MGWA

[Andrew Baksh]

Definitely an Orange-crowned Warbler for all the reasons already cited by Shai.

Thanks for making the images available for further review.

Cheers,


"I prefer to be true to myself, even at the hazard of incurring the ridicule of 
others, rather than to be false, and to incur my own abhorrence." ~ Frederick 
Douglass

風　Swift as the wind
林　Quiet as the forest
火　Conquer like the fire
山　Steady as the mountain
Sun Tzu  The Art of War

> (\__/)
> (= '.'=)
> (") _ (") 
> Sent from somewhere in the field using my mobile device! 

Andrew Baksh
www.birdingdude.blogspot.com

> On Dec 19, 2017, at 3:33 PM, Patricia Lindsay  wrote:
> 
> And please allow me to clarify that I have no idea why it is circulating 
> that I put the blessing on the ID as MacGillivray's after having a 
> single 2 second look at a tiny image on someone's phone on Sunday. My 
> reaction was simply a "wow" and I never pursued it further.
> 
> 
> 
> Patricia Lindsay
> Bay Shore
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 03:16 PM, Shaibal Mitra wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Cesar and all,
>> 
>> Very cool-looking bird!
>> 
>> I think its overall shape (and particularly its very finely pointed 
>> bill) and manners suggest Orange-crowned Warbler. I also think that a 
>> MacGillivray's Warbler would show a thicker, blacker loral stripe.
>> 
>> Finally, the whitish edges to the tips of the primaries are a typical 
>> feature of Orange-crowned Warbler, and one that I can't recall seeing 
>> on things like Mourning Warbler or Common Yellowthroat, whcih 
>> MacGillivray's would be expected to resemble.
>> 
>> Shai Mitra
>> Bay Shore
>> 
>> From: bounce-122143179-11143...@list.cornell.edu 
>> [bounce-122143179-11143...@list.cornell.edu] on behalf of Cesar 
>> Castillo [czar3...@yahoo.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 1:46 PM
>> To: EBirds NYC; NYSBIRDS-L
>> Subject: [nysbirds-l] OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> Dear All,
>> 
>> I have posted the original images on flicker.  I have not messed with 
>> the photos except in increasing their sharpness.  I can see how this 
>> could be an orange-crowned warbler, however I remember seeing a grey 
>> hood that extended quite a bit, Carry Laben and I immediately thought 
>> Mourning W until we looked at the photos and thought MacGillivray's. 
>> Memory is fickle though when it comes to details, I don't tend to just 
>> trust mine without evidence.  The hood, if it is real is most notable 
>> in the 2nd and 7th link below.
>> 
>> Thank you all, it's too bad no one else has been able to see it.  I 
>> attempted to find it on Monday morning, but there was active 
>> construction in the location where it was found, and most of the snow 
>> in the park had melted, giving this bird and all the other birds found 
>> in the same spot ample opportunity to find food elsewhere.
>> 
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 
>> 12/17/2017
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 
>> 12/17/2017
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 
>> 12/17/2017
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 
>> 12/17/2017
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 
>> 12/17/2017
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 
>> 12/17/2017
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 
>> 12/17/2017
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 
>> 12/17/2017
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 
>> 12/17/2017
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 

RE: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[Rick]

Lest we forget, a number of existing cases (parrots often, some of which we
find locally) in which strays turned into intermittent breeders, and now are
established, countable exotics. Shouldn't we be interested in how this
transition occurs (or fails to do so)?

In my Brooklyn XMas count database, we track a number of exotics, but flag
them as "non-countable."  In producing reports, we may differentiate
countable years from non-countable by years, if so desired. This is not a
difficult feat, as long as the data model is well-designed. Can eBirds do
this? Arguably it should. This would support a number of the data tracking
suggestions already put forward in this thread.

Just a thought,
Rick

-Original Message-
From: bounce-122144285-3714...@list.cornell.edu
[mailto:bounce-122144285-3714...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Shaibal
Mitra
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 3:02 PM
To: NYSBIRDS (NYSBIRDS-L@cornell.edu) 
Subject: RE: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock
(18-Dec)

I agree strongly with John and Angus. The consequences for the eBird Hot 100
are at most not very important and at least potentially amusing. I thought
everybody knew they were supposed to keep track of their own lists, rather
than to trust in the algorithms of strangers!

More specifically, regarding European Goldfinches in the New York City area
now, the numbers of birds present and the area occupied are large enough to
suggest establishment. Perhaps not everybody is aware that this species
established breeding populations on western Long Island for decades. It is
even conceivable that these were never completely extirpated, and that
today's birds derive at least in part from those naturalized populations
(but they are certainly at least partly derived from recent escapes, as
proven by the presence of plastic leg bands on some). The best argument
against the hypothesis of demographic continuity between the period of
establishment and the current resurgence in reported abundance is that very
few or none were reported for several decades. But this is at best a weak
argument from negative data that are known to be systematically biased
against reporting. 

Monk Parakeets provide a parallel example that is very instructive. This
species established breeding populations in the New York City/Long Island
region that were fairly large and widespread by the early 1970s. These were
subjected to eradication programs during the mid-1970s, and perceptions
shifted to the extent that NYSARC acted (overly boldly in my opinion) to
remove the species from the official New York State Checklist in 1982.
Reports almost ceased during this period, but we know in this case that the
gap in documented occurrence was an error arising from two sources: because
backyard birders who liked the parakeets concealed their presence to protect
them from destruction; but also because the remaining birds were perceived
as "not countable" by competitive birders. 

Today's thread illustrates that under-reporting of "not countable" species
has persisted in birding culture, to the detriment of our ability to infer
the actual statuses of non-native species.

Shai Mitra
Bay Shore

From: bounce-122144147-11143...@list.cornell.edu
[bounce-122144147-11143...@list.cornell.edu] on behalf of John Laver
[eart...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 2:20 PM
To: Angus Wilson
Cc: NYSBIRDS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock
(18-Dec)

"Personally, I think tracking these potential colonizers is important and
interesting. Simply invalidating them or discouraging reporting isn't a good
solution."

Agreed, particularly as range flux is likely to accelerate in ways we'll
need to observe and measure as climate changes take hold.  We need to think
about the Big Picture.

John Laver
Manhattan

On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 1:50 PM, Angus Wilson
mailto:oceanwander...@gmail.com>> wrote:
For European Goldfinch I suspect 'domesticated' isn't an option. Same for
other known or presumed escapes or deliberate releases that occur with
regularity in NYS (e.g. Chukar and various non-domesticated waterfowl).
Personally, I think tracking these potential colonizers is important and
interesting. Simply invalidating them or discouraging reporting isn't a good
solution. Issues with list purity can be a separate conversation, decoupled
from the scientific uses of this information.

Angus Wilson
New York City, NY
--

NYSbirds-L List Info:
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME.htm
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES.htm
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ARCHIVES:
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2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L
3) http://birding.aba.org/maillist/NY01

Please submit your observations to eBird:
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--

NYSbirds-L List Info:

Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[Andrew Baksh]

I agree, it is important to track these birds. Especially as it seems they have 
adapted quite well and are spreading. Perhaps, we will see them expand like the 
Monk Parakeets.

I had an encounter with the said species this year at Bush Terminal Piers Park, 
in October. A total of 4 birds with no bands and they acted like true migrant 
birds on the move.

Since we are on the topic of scientific uses of our field efforts. I would like 
to see the eBird "think tank" devise a way to track feral cat populations at 
hotspots. We might find that data to be useful in helping understand the 
decline in numbers of birds and other wildlife at these sites and could be used 
down the road in getting colonies removed.

I have been doing just that for many of my sites I tend to cover. But that, is 
another conversation for another time. Carry on then.

Cheers,

"I prefer to be true to myself, even at the hazard of incurring the ridicule of 
others, rather than to be false, and to incur my own abhorrence." ~ Frederick 
Douglass

風　Swift as the wind
林　Quiet as the forest
火　Conquer like the fire
山　Steady as the mountain
Sun Tzu  The Art of War

> (\__/)
> (= '.'=)
> (") _ (") 
> Sent from somewhere in the field using my mobile device! 

Andrew Baksh
www.birdingdude.blogspot.com

> On Dec 19, 2017, at 1:50 PM, Angus Wilson  wrote:
> 
> For European Goldfinch I suspect 'domesticated' isn't an option. Same for 
> other known or presumed escapes or deliberate releases that occur with 
> regularity in NYS (e.g. Chukar and various non-domesticated waterfowl). 
> Personally, I think tracking these potential colonizers is important and 
> interesting. Simply invalidating them or discouraging reporting isn't a good 
> solution. Issues with list purity can be a separate conversation, decoupled 
> from the scientific uses of this information.
> 
> Angus Wilson
> New York City, NY
> --
> NYSbirds-L List Info:
> Welcome and Basics
> Rules and Information
> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
> Archives:
> The Mail Archive
> Surfbirds
> ABA
> Please submit your observations to eBird!
> --

--

NYSbirds-L List Info:
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME.htm
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES.htm
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm

ARCHIVES:
1) http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html
2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L
3) http://birding.aba.org/maillist/NY01

Please submit your observations to eBird:
http://ebird.org/content/ebird/

--

Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[brian . whipple]

As much as I’d like to claim the high-minded ideals of the altruistic
citizen scientist who is wholly uninterested in his own numbers, I can’t.
I’m very much a lister—at turns shamefully and shamelessly so. Numbers and
lists don’t motivate me; moments with the birds do. But numbers and lists
sure are cool to look at, and they’re nice to peruse when I’m not in the
field. I really, *really* like looking at my lists. There, I said it.

While I did start using eBird in 2013 to contribute to the big picture and
be a citizen scientist, the way the database presents and organizes my
personal data for me has further advanced my interest in that personal
data. Maybe too much so.

The Major Regions, Countries, States, and Counties tabs are very cool. The
introduction of the profile feature with its color-graded maps? The Target
Species feature? The “Hot 100” (Shai’s apt term, not mine)? These features
all serve to reinforce the likelihood that, for many, this site is a way to
record personal data. The usefulness of that data to science is, to many
users, secondary—a by-product of a birder’s desire to see how her 2017
compares to her 2016, and so on. Cornell definitely knows this.  They
continuent to attract users with ways to serve themselves and then, whether
incidentally or intentionally, to serve science and conservation at the
same time.

The site and the app have grown by such tremendous leaps and bounds lately.
I’ve no doubt there’s a way to make not-countable species not count even
when added to everyday checklists. And I’ve also got no doubt that there
are scads of birders who simply will not put Muscovy Ducks, Budgies, or
European Goldfinches on their lists if it means their numbers aren’t
“officially” correct—just as sure as I am that some people will count the
Virginia Rail regardless of how long ago the Wild Bird Fund released it in
the park.

Anyways, thanks for all the thoughtful and passionate discussion. There are
few groups of people of which I’m happier to count myself a member than
birders in general and NY State birders in particular. You guys are all
right.

Brian

On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 3:02 PM Shaibal Mitra 
wrote:

> I agree strongly with John and Angus. The consequences for the eBird Hot
> 100 are at most not very important and at least potentially amusing. I
> thought everybody knew they were supposed to keep track of their own lists,
> rather than to trust in the algorithms of strangers!
>
> More specifically, regarding European Goldfinches in the New York City
> area now, the numbers of birds present and the area occupied are large
> enough to suggest establishment. Perhaps not everybody is aware that this
> species established breeding populations on western Long Island for
> decades. It is even conceivable that these were never completely
> extirpated, and that today's birds derive at least in part from those
> naturalized populations (but they are certainly at least partly derived
> from recent escapes, as proven by the presence of plastic leg bands on
> some). The best argument against the hypothesis of demographic continuity
> between the period of establishment and the current resurgence in reported
> abundance is that very few or none were reported for several decades. But
> this is at best a weak argument from negative data that are known to be
> systematically biased against reporting.
>
> Monk Parakeets provide a parallel example that is very instructive. This
> species established breeding populations in the New York City/Long Island
> region that were fairly large and widespread by the early 1970s. These were
> subjected to eradication programs during the mid-1970s, and perceptions
> shifted to the extent that NYSARC acted (overly boldly in my opinion) to
> remove the species from the official New York State Checklist in 1982.
> Reports almost ceased during this period, but we know in this case that the
> gap in documented occurrence was an error arising from two sources: because
> backyard birders who liked the parakeets concealed their presence to
> protect them from destruction; but also because the remaining birds were
> perceived as "not countable" by competitive birders.
>
> Today's thread illustrates that under-reporting of "not countable" species
> has persisted in birding culture, to the detriment of our ability to infer
> the actual statuses of non-native species.
>
> Shai Mitra
> Bay Shore
> 
> From: bounce-122144147-11143...@list.cornell.edu [
> bounce-122144147-11143...@list.cornell.edu] on behalf of John Laver [
> eart...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 2:20 PM
> To: Angus Wilson
> Cc: NYSBIRDS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock
> (18-Dec)
>
> "Personally, I think tracking these potential colonizers is important and
> interesting. Simply invalidating them or discouraging reporting isn't a
> good solution."
>
> Agreed, particularly as range flux is likely to 

Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[Michael Schrimpf]

Hi all,

Just to add a bit more context:

There have been many in-depth discussions on this topic among the eBird
reviewers, and the folks at Cornell acknowledge that this is an issue they
wish to tackle soon. In one of his recent responses to our reviewer
listserv, Marshall Iliff indicated that addressing this is a priority for
them, so I imagine we should have additional tools soon (perhaps in the
next year), presumably impacting what shows up in the public output, and
likely including some user-options for what to count and what not to count
on our own personal lists.

The current recommendation is to report any live, wild birds, including
introduced birds (see the bottom of this help page):
http://help.ebird.org/customer/en/portal/articles/973921-what-data-are-appropriate-

In many places some of those introduced birds will become 'invalidated' by
the reviewers, meaning they won't show up in public output (but will still
show up on your lists), while other established species will show up on
public maps. The important thing is that regardless of review status, those
records are still in the database, and if/when they become important to
monitor the community will still have access to those records. Some of that
process may change once eBird Central invents new tools to deal with the
data.

Many (but not all) exotics are also 'domestic' types, by which eBird means
"distinctly-plumaged domesticated varieties that may be free-flying".
Locally this includes things like Budgerigar, 'Swedish' Mallards, etc.
There are normally separate taxonomic categories for those birds with the
words (Domestic type) in parenthesis. These should only be used for birds
that are identifiable as a domestic variety. These domestic varieties
currently don't show up on lists. More info on that category can be found
on this help page:
http://help.ebird.org/customer/en/portal/articles/1006825-the-ebird-taxonomy?b_id=1928

Michael Schrimpf
Suffolk Cty
eBird reviewer for the high seas and Antarctica


On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 1:16 PM,  wrote:

> The umpteen responses I’ve gotten to the contrary are why I hedged my
> sureness.
>
> Does anyone know the proper protocol for entering escapees on checklists
> (benefitting science) without having them inaccurately show up on lifelists
> (benefitting type-A listers)?
>
> Also, I know some of my Central Park checklists include Budgies, but
> there’s no Budgie on my NYS life list, so I must have done something right.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>

--

NYSbirds-L List Info:
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http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES.htm
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ARCHIVES:
1) http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html
2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L
3) http://birding.aba.org/maillist/NY01

Please submit your observations to eBird:
http://ebird.org/content/ebird/

--

Re: [nysbirds-l] OCWA or MGWA

[Anders Peltomaa]

Hi Cesar,
Thanks for sharing the photos.
Interesting bird. When I saw the photos I thought OCWA, because of the
structure and overall feeling I got.
Great find and save for your CBC Count.

Anders Peltomaa

On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 1:46 PM Cesar Castillo  wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> I have posted the original images on flicker.  I have not messed with the
> photos except in increasing their sharpness.  I can see how this could be
> an orange-crowned warbler, however I remember seeing a grey hood that
> extended quite a bit, Carry Laben and I immediately thought Mourning W
> until we looked at the photos and thought MacGillivray's.  Memory is fickle
> though when it comes to details, I don't tend to just trust mine without
> evidence.  The hood, if it is real is most notable in the 2nd and 7th link
> below.
>
> Thank you all, it's too bad no one else has been able to see it.  I
> attempted to find it on Monday morning, but there was active construction
> in the location where it was found, and most of the snow in the park had
> melted, giving this bird and all the other birds found in the same spot
> ample opportunity to find food elsewhere.
>
> OCWA or MGWA
> 
>
> OCWA or MGWA
>
> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA
> 12/17/2017
>
> 
>
>
>
>
> OCWA or MGWA
>
> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA
> 12/17/2017
>
> 
>
> OCWA or MGWA
> 
>
> OCWA or MGWA
>
> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA
> 12/17/2017
>
> 
>
>
> OCWA or MGWA
> 
>
> OCWA or MGWA
>
> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA
> 12/17/2017
>
> 
>
> OCWA or MGWA
> 
>
> OCWA or MGWA
>
> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA
> 12/17/2017
>
> 
>
> OCWA or MGWA
> 
>
> OCWA or MGWA
>
> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA
> 12/17/2017
>
> 
>
>
> OCWA or MGWA
> 
>
> OCWA or MGWA
>
> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA
> 12/17/2017
>
> 
>
>
> OCWA or MGWA
> 
>
> OCWA or MGWA
>
> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA
> 12/17/2017
>
> 
>
> OCWA or MGWA
> 
>
> OCWA or MGWA
>
> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA
> 12/17/2017
>
> 
>
>
>
> César
>
> Una tarde la princesa  vio una estrella aparecer;  la princesa era
> traviesa  y la quiso ir a coger.
> La quería para hacerla  decorar un prendedor,  con un verso y una perla,  una
> pluma y una flor.
> Las princesas primorosas  se parecen mucho a ti;  cortan lirios, cortan
> rosas,  cortan astros. Son así.
> -*A Margarita Debayle (To Margarita Debayle) by Ruben Dario*
> --
> *NYSbirds-L List Info:*
> Welcome and Basics 
> Rules and Information 
> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
> 
> *Archives:*
> The Mail Archive
> 
> Surfbirds 
> ABA 
> *Please submit your observations to **eBird*
> *!*
> --
>

--

NYSbirds-L List Info:
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ARCHIVES:
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2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L
3) http://birding.aba.org/maillist/NY01

Please 

Re: [nysbirds-l] OCWA or MGWA

[Cesar Castillo]

Ok, great to learn so much on a more familiar species.  Thanks for all the help 
and clarification!I learned more about Orange-crowned Warblers in this one week 
when I thought it might be a MGWA, than in all the years I have been seeing 
them with no doubt in my mind as to what they were.  Ironic.
César 
Una tarde la princesa  vio una estrella aparecer;  la princesa era traviesa  y 
la quiso ir a coger.  
La quería para hacerla  decorar un prendedor,  con un verso y una perla,  una 
pluma y una flor.  
Las princesas primorosas  se parecen mucho a ti;  cortan lirios, cortan rosas,  
cortan astros. Son así.
-A Margarita Debayle (To Margarita Debayle) by Ruben Dario 

On Tuesday, December 19, 2017, 4:20:18 PM EST, Anders Peltomaa 
 wrote:  
 
 Hi Cesar,Thanks for sharing the photos.Interesting bird. When I saw the photos 
I thought OCWA, because of the structure and overall feeling I got.Great find 
and save for your CBC Count.
Anders Peltomaa
On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 1:46 PM Cesar Castillo  wrote:

Dear All,
I have posted the original images on flicker.  I have not messed with the 
photos except in increasing their sharpness.  I can see how this could be an 
orange-crowned warbler, however I remember seeing a grey hood that extended 
quite a bit, Carry Laben and I immediately thought Mourning W until we looked 
at the photos and thought MacGillivray's.  Memory is fickle though when it 
comes to details, I don't tend to just trust mine without evidence.  The hood, 
if it is real is most notable in the 2nd and 7th link below.  
Thank you all, it's too bad no one else has been able to see it.  I attempted 
to find it on Monday morning, but there was active construction in the location 
where it was found, and most of the snow in the park had melted, giving this 
bird and all the other birds found in the same spot ample opportunity to find 
food elsewhere. 
OCWA or MGWA


| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
 |

 |

 |






| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
 |

 |

 |


OCWA or MGWA


| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
 |

 |

 |



OCWA or MGWA


| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
 |

 |

 |


OCWA or MGWA


| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
 |

 |

 |


OCWA or MGWA


| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
 |

 |

 |



OCWA or MGWA


| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
 |

 |

 |



OCWA or MGWA


| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
 |

 |

 |


OCWA or MGWA


| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
 |

 |

 |




César 
Una tarde la princesa  vio una estrella aparecer;  la princesa era traviesa  y 
la quiso ir a coger.  
La quería para hacerla  decorar un prendedor,  con un verso y una perla,  una 
pluma y una flor.  
Las princesas primorosas  se parecen mucho a ti;  cortan lirios, cortan rosas,  
cortan astros. Son así.
-A Margarita Debayle (To Margarita Debayle) by Ruben Dario --  NYSbirds-L List 
Info:  Welcome and Basics   Rules and Information   Subscribe, Configuration 
and Leave  Archives:  The Mail Archive  Surfbirds  ABA  Please submit your 
observations to eBird!  --
  
--

NYSbirds-L List Info:
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME.htm
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES.htm
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm

ARCHIVES:
1) http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html
2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L
3) http://birding.aba.org/maillist/NY01

Please submit your observations to eBird:
http://ebird.org/content/ebird/

--

Re: [nysbirds-l] OCWA or MGWA

[Arie Gilbert]

  
  
Cesar,

You very admirably reiterated "THE LAW OF INDIRECT OBSERVATION".

See the "universal laws of birding" on the Queens county Bird Club's
web page.

http://www.qcbirdclub.org/the-universal-laws

and FWIW on first sight I thought MGWA too...

Arie Gilbert 
North Babylon, NY

WWW.Powerbirder.blogspot.com 
 WWW.qcbirdclub.org 

Where's That Bird? Maps to Local Birding Hotspots! 
http://www.qcbirdclub.org/birding-site-maps  



On 12/19/2017 4:28 PM, Cesar Castillo
  wrote:


  

  
Ok, great to learn so much on a more familiar species. 
  Thanks for all the help and clarification!
I learned more about Orange-crowned Warblers in this
  one week when I thought it might be a MGWA, than in all
  the years I have been seeing them with no doubt in my mind
  as to what they were.  Ironic.


César 
  
  
  

  Una tarde la princesa  vio una estrella aparecer;  la princesa era traviesa  y la quiso ir a coger.  
La quería para hacerla  decorar un prendedor,  con un verso y una perla,  una pluma y una flor.  
Las princesas primorosas  se parecen mucho a ti;  cortan lirios, cortan rosas,  cortan astros. Son así.


-A
Margarita Debayle (To Margarita Debayle) by Ruben
Dario

  
  
  
  
  


  
 On Tuesday, December 19, 2017, 4:20:18 PM EST, Anders
  Peltomaa  wrote: 





  

  
Hi Cesar,
Thanks for sharing the photos.
Interesting bird. When I saw the photos I
  thought OCWA, because of the structure and overall
  feeling I got.
Great find and save for your CBC Count.


Anders Peltomaa


  
On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 1:46 PM Cesar
  Castillo 
  wrote:


  

  
Dear All,


I have posted the original images
  on flicker.  I have not messed with
  the photos except in increasing their
  sharpness.  I can see how this could
  be an orange-crowned warbler, however
  I remember seeing a grey hood that
  extended quite a bit, Carry Laben and
  I immediately thought Mourning W until
  we looked at the photos and thought
  MacGillivray's.  Memory is fickle
  though when it comes to details, I
  don't tend to just trust mine without
  evidence.  The hood, if it is real is
  most notable in the 2nd and 7th link
  below.  


Thank you all, it's too bad no one
  else has been able to see it.  I
  attempted to find it on Monday
  morning, but there was active
  construction in the location where it
  was found, and most of the snow in the
  park had melted, giving this bird and
  all the other birds found in the same
  spot ample opportunity to find food
  elsewhere. 


OCWA or MGWA





  

  

   

Re: [ebirdsnyc] Re: [nysbirds-l] OCWA or MGWA

[Shane Blodgett]

Thanks for sharing Cesar. Goes to show what a difference the original photos 
can make as I was in the MAGW camp based on the back of the camera shots.

Shane

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 19, 2017, at 5:35 PM, Arie Gilbert ariegilb...@optonline.net 
> [ebirdsnyc]  wrote:
> 
> Cesar,
> 
> You very admirably reiterated "THE LAW OF INDIRECT OBSERVATION".
> 
> See the "universal laws of birding" on the Queens county Bird Club's web page.
> 
> http://www.qcbirdclub.org/the-universal-laws
> 
> and FWIW on first sight I thought MGWA too...
> 
> Arie Gilbert 
> North Babylon, NY
> 
> WWW.Powerbirder.blogspot.com 
>  WWW.qcbirdclub.org 
> 
> Where's That Bird? Maps to Local Birding Hotspots! 
> http://www.qcbirdclub.org/birding-site-maps  
> 
> 
> 
>> On 12/19/2017 4:28 PM, Cesar Castillo wrote:
>> Ok, great to learn so much on a more familiar species.  Thanks for all the 
>> help and clarification!
>> I learned more about Orange-crowned Warblers in this one week when I thought 
>> it might be a MGWA, than in all the years I have been seeing them with no 
>> doubt in my mind as to what they were.  Ironic.
>> 
>> César 
>> 
>> Una tarde la princesa  vio una estrella aparecer;  la princesa era traviesa  
>> y la quiso ir a coger.  
>> La quería para hacerla  decorar un prendedor,  con un verso y una perla,  
>> una pluma y una flor.  
>> Las princesas primorosas  se parecen mucho a ti;  cortan lirios, cortan 
>> rosas,  cortan astros. Son así.
>> -A Margarita Debayle (To Margarita Debayle) by Ruben Dario
>> 
>> 
>> On Tuesday, December 19, 2017, 4:20:18 PM EST, Anders Peltomaa 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Cesar,
>> Thanks for sharing the photos.
>> Interesting bird. When I saw the photos I thought OCWA, because of the 
>> structure and overall feeling I got.
>> Great find and save for your CBC Count.
>> 
>> Anders Peltomaa
>> 
>> On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 1:46 PM Cesar Castillo  wrote:
>> Dear All,
>> 
>> I have posted the original images on flicker.  I have not messed with the 
>> photos except in increasing their sharpness.  I can see how this could be an 
>> orange-crowned warbler, however I remember seeing a grey hood that extended 
>> quite a bit, Carry Laben and I immediately thought Mourning W until  
>>  we looked at the photos and thought MacGillivray's. 
>>  Memory is fickle though when it comes to details, I don't tend to just 
>> trust mine without evidence.  The hood, if it is real is most notable in the 
>> 2nd and 7th link below.  
>> 
>> Thank you all, it's too bad no one else has been able to see it.  I 
>> attempted to find it on Monday morning, but there was active construction in 
>> the location where it was found, and most of the snow in the park had 
>> melted, giving this bird and all the other birds found in the same spot 
>> ample opportunity to find food elsewhere. 
>> 
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
>> 
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
>> 
>> 
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
>> 
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
>> 
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
>> 
>> 
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
>> 
>> 
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
>> 
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> OCWA or MGWA
>> Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> César 
>> 
>> Una tarde la princesa  vio una estrella aparecer;  la princesa era traviesa  
>> y la quiso ir a coger.  
>> La quería para hacerla  decorar un prendedor,  con un verso y una perla,  
>> una pluma y una flor.  
>> Las princesas primorosas  se parecen mucho a ti;  cortan lirios, cortan 
>> rosas,  cortan astros. Son así.
>> -A Margarita Debayle (To Margarita Debayle) by Ruben Dario
>> --
>> NYSbirds-L List Info:
>> Welcome and Basics
>> Rules and Information
>> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
>> Archives:
>> The Mail Archive
>> Surfbirds
>> ABA
>> Please submit your observations to eBird!
>> --
>> --
>> NYSbirds-L List Info:
>> Welcome and Basics
>> Rules and Information
>> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
>> Archives:
>> The Mail Archive
>> Surfbirds
>> ABA
>> Please submit your observations to eBird!
>> --
> 
> __._,_.___
> Posted by: Arie Gilbert 
> 

Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[Kevin J. McGowan]

Keep the conversation going with eBird. As an ornithologist, I'm interested in 
tracking the ups and downs of potential newly established species. As a lister, 
I'm interested in keeping my list clean and comparable for ABA rankings. I 
don't work with eBird, but be assured that the guys that do are both 
ornithologists and listers, too. I have no doubt that they will address this 
issue in the future. They're not technocrats who want to tell birders what to 
do, they're our people.


Kevin


Kevin J. McGowan
Project Manager
Distance Learning in Bird Biology
Cornell Lab of Ornithology
159 Sapsucker Woods Road
Ithaca, NY 14850
k...@cornell.edu
607-254-2452



From: bounce-12212-3714...@list.cornell.edu 
 on behalf of Michael Schrimpf 

Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 4:02 PM
To: brian.whip...@gmail.com
Cc: NYSBIRDS-L; eBirds NYC
Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

Hi all,

Just to add a bit more context:

There have been many in-depth discussions on this topic among the eBird 
reviewers, and the folks at Cornell acknowledge that this is an issue they wish 
to tackle soon. In one of his recent responses to our reviewer listserv, 
Marshall Iliff indicated that addressing this is a priority for them, so I 
imagine we should have additional tools soon (perhaps in the next year), 
presumably impacting what shows up in the public output, and likely including 
some user-options for what to count and what not to count on our own personal 
lists.

The current recommendation is to report any live, wild birds, including 
introduced birds (see the bottom of this help page):
http://help.ebird.org/customer/en/portal/articles/973921-what-data-are-appropriate-
What Data are Appropriate? | 
eBird
help.ebird.org
This feature describes the kinds of data appropriate for eBird, provides some 
tips for data entry, and warns about the problems associated with certain kinds 
of ...



In many places some of those introduced birds will become 'invalidated' by the 
reviewers, meaning they won't show up in public output (but will still show up 
on your lists), while other established species will show up on public maps. 
The important thing is that regardless of review status, those records are 
still in the database, and if/when they become important to monitor the 
community will still have access to those records. Some of that process may 
change once eBird Central invents new tools to deal with the data.

Many (but not all) exotics are also 'domestic' types, by which eBird means 
"distinctly-plumaged domesticated varieties that may be free-flying". Locally 
this includes things like Budgerigar, 'Swedish' Mallards, etc. There are 
normally separate taxonomic categories for those birds with the words (Domestic 
type) in parenthesis. These should only be used for birds that are identifiable 
as a domestic variety. These domestic varieties currently don't show up on 
lists. More info on that category can be found on this help page:
http://help.ebird.org/customer/en/portal/articles/1006825-the-ebird-taxonomy?b_id=1928
The eBird Taxonomy | 
eBird
help.ebird.org
Updated 15 Aug 2017 -- eBird Taxonomy v2017. The eBird Taxonomy is a 
hierarchical approach to creating a species list for data entry and listing 
purposes across the ...



Michael Schrimpf
Suffolk Cty
eBird reviewer for the high seas and Antarctica


On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 1:16 PM, 
mailto:brian.whip...@gmail.com>> wrote:
The umpteen responses I’ve gotten to the contrary are why I hedged my sureness.

Does anyone know the proper protocol for entering escapees on checklists 
(benefitting science) without having them inaccurately show up on lifelists 
(benefitting type-A listers)?

Also, I know some of my Central Park checklists include Budgies, but there’s no 
Budgie on my NYS life list, so I must have done something right.

Thanks!



--
NYSbirds-L List Info:
Welcome and Basics
Rules and Information
Subscribe, Configuration and 
Leave
Archives:
The Mail 
Archive
Surfbirds
ABA
Please submit your observations to eBird!
--

--

NYSbirds-L List Info:
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME.htm
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES.htm
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm

ARCHIVES:
1) http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html
2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L
3) 

RE: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

[Shaibal Mitra]

Hi Kevin and all,

This is true, but it doesn't solve the problem. eBird central might mean well, 
but they could be wrong in any given instance--and they are bound to be from 
time to time, just like NYSARC was wrong to "officially" declare that Monk 
Parakeets were gone in 1982.

We could go on and on about how ordinarily responsible bodies spit the bit, 
admittedly rarely, but also predictably. (Don't get me started about ABA adding 
Hawaii to North America, by decree.)

In my opinion, each person has to take responsibility for his/her own agenda. 
No matter what algorithms eBird employs, the Hot 100 will never be an objective 
reckoning of anything, right? 

Shai

From: bounce-122144759-3714...@list.cornell.edu 
[bounce-122144759-3714...@list.cornell.edu] on behalf of Kevin J. McGowan 
[k...@cornell.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 7:47 PM
To: NYSBIRDS-L
Cc: eBirds NYC
Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

Keep the conversation going with eBird. As an ornithologist, I'm interested in 
tracking the ups and downs of potential newly established species. As a lister, 
I'm interested in keeping my list clean and comparable for ABA rankings. I 
don't work with eBird, but be assured that the guys that do are both 
ornithologists and listers, too. I have no doubt that they will address this 
issue in the future. They're not technocrats who want to tell birders what to 
do, they're our people.


Kevin


Kevin J. McGowan
Project Manager
Distance Learning in Bird Biology
Cornell Lab of Ornithology
159 Sapsucker Woods Road
Ithaca, NY 14850
k...@cornell.edu
607-254-2452



From: bounce-12212-3714...@list.cornell.edu 
 on behalf of Michael Schrimpf 

Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 4:02 PM
To: brian.whip...@gmail.com
Cc: NYSBIRDS-L; eBirds NYC
Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Governors Island: European Goldfinch Flock (18-Dec)

Hi all,

Just to add a bit more context:

There have been many in-depth discussions on this topic among the eBird 
reviewers, and the folks at Cornell acknowledge that this is an issue they wish 
to tackle soon. In one of his recent responses to our reviewer listserv, 
Marshall Iliff indicated that addressing this is a priority for them, so I 
imagine we should have additional tools soon (perhaps in the next year), 
presumably impacting what shows up in the public output, and likely including 
some user-options for what to count and what not to count on our own personal 
lists.

The current recommendation is to report any live, wild birds, including 
introduced birds (see the bottom of this help page):
http://help.ebird.org/customer/en/portal/articles/973921-what-data-are-appropriate-
What Data are Appropriate? | 
eBird
help.ebird.org
This feature describes the kinds of data appropriate for eBird, provides some 
tips for data entry, and warns about the problems associated with certain kinds 
of ...



In many places some of those introduced birds will become 'invalidated' by the 
reviewers, meaning they won't show up in public output (but will still show up 
on your lists), while other established species will show up on public maps. 
The important thing is that regardless of review status, those records are 
still in the database, and if/when they become important to monitor the 
community will still have access to those records. Some of that process may 
change once eBird Central invents new tools to deal with the data.

Many (but not all) exotics are also 'domestic' types, by which eBird means 
"distinctly-plumaged domesticated varieties that may be free-flying". Locally 
this includes things like Budgerigar, 'Swedish' Mallards, etc. There are 
normally separate taxonomic categories for those birds with the words (Domestic 
type) in parenthesis. These should only be used for birds that are identifiable 
as a domestic variety. These domestic varieties currently don't show up on 
lists. More info on that category can be found on this help page:
http://help.ebird.org/customer/en/portal/articles/1006825-the-ebird-taxonomy?b_id=1928
The eBird Taxonomy | 
eBird
help.ebird.org
Updated 15 Aug 2017 -- eBird Taxonomy v2017. The eBird Taxonomy is a 
hierarchical approach to creating a species list for data entry and listing 
purposes across the ...



Michael Schrimpf
Suffolk Cty
eBird reviewer for the high seas and Antarctica


On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 1:16 PM, 
mailto:brian.whip...@gmail.com>> wrote:
The umpteen responses I’ve gotten to the contrary are why I hedged my sureness.

Does anyone know the proper protocol for entering escapees on checklists 
(benefitting science) without having them inaccurately show up on lifelists 
(benefitting type-A listers)?

Also, I know some of my Central Park checklists include 

Re: [nysbirds-l] OCWA or MGWA

[Andrew Block]

Boy, after seeing the Macgillivray's in Highlands, NJ yesterday and seeing the 
photos of this bird, I can see the similarities for sure.  But the 
MacGillivray's did not have those light edgings as Shai notes and seemed a 
little brighter overall and the throat seemed different too.  I'd lean towards 
an Orange-crowned, but you can really see they'd be confusing in this instance. 
 I've never seen an Orange-crowned like this one.
Andrew Andrew v. F. Block
Consulting Naturalist
20 Hancock Avenue, Apt. 3
Yonkers, Westchester Co., New York 10705-4629
Phone: 914-963-3080; Cell: 914-319-9701 
www.flickr.com/photos/conuropsis/albums

  From: Shaibal Mitra 
 To: NYSBIRDS-L  
 Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 3:16 PM
 Subject: RE: [nysbirds-l] OCWA or MGWA
  
Hi Cesar and all,

Very cool-looking bird!

I think its overall shape (and particularly its very finely pointed bill) and 
manners suggest Orange-crowned Warbler. I also think that a MacGillivray's 
Warbler would show a thicker, blacker loral stripe.

Finally, the whitish edges to the tips of the primaries are a typical feature 
of Orange-crowned Warbler, and one that I can't recall seeing on things like 
Mourning Warbler or Common Yellowthroat, whcih MacGillivray's would be expected 
to resemble.

Shai Mitra
Bay Shore

From: bounce-122143179-11143...@list.cornell.edu 
[bounce-122143179-11143...@list.cornell.edu] on behalf of Cesar Castillo 
[czar3...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 1:46 PM
To: EBirds NYC; NYSBIRDS-L
Subject: [nysbirds-l] OCWA or MGWA

Dear All,

I have posted the original images on flicker.  I have not messed with the 
photos except in increasing their sharpness.  I can see how this could be an 
orange-crowned warbler, however I remember seeing a grey hood that extended 
quite a bit, Carry Laben and I immediately thought Mourning W until we looked 
at the photos and thought MacGillivray's.  Memory is fickle though when it 
comes to details, I don't tend to just trust mine without evidence.  The hood, 
if it is real is most notable in the 2nd and 7th link below.

Thank you all, it's too bad no one else has been able to see it.  I attempted 
to find it on Monday morning, but there was active construction in the location 
where it was found, and most of the snow in the park had melted, giving this 
bird and all the other birds found in the same spot ample opportunity to find 
food elsewhere.

OCWA or 
MGWA






[https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017












[https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017




OCWA or 
MGWA






[https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017





OCWA or 
MGWA






[https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017




OCWA or 
MGWA






[https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017




OCWA or 
MGWA






[https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017





OCWA or 
MGWA






[https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
OCWA or MGWA

Flushing Meadows Corona Park - Meadow Lake Queens County, NY, USA 12/17/2017





OCWA or 
MGWA






[https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/flickr.png]
OCWA or