RE: [nysbirds-l] Jones Beach Shrike

2010-12-01 Thread grosb...@clarityconnect.com
Hello all, Just to keep everyone up on the Shrike thread --I put Shai's and Kevin McGowan's emails (with photo attachments of the bird) to ID-Frontiers to see what some of the best around the U.S. and the world have to say on the Jones Beach Shrike. I have not heard from Pyle yet. So far,

RE: [nysbirds-l] Shrike id.

2010-12-01 Thread grosb...@clarityconnect.com
Hi, I see the overall bill size and body color to be pretty firmly in the Loggerhead camp. Also, some have noted the behavior to be more Loggerhead (see Shai's original email). Again, I'm only going on photos. The traits I see as more Northern are the barring on breast (Juvy Loggerheads can

RE: [nysbirds-l] Jones Beach Shrike

2010-12-01 Thread grosb...@clarityconnect.com
The two species don't overlap in breeding range. Matt Original Message: - From: Orhan Birol orhanbir...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 12:39:00 -0500 To: NYSBIRDS-L@cornell.edu Subject: [nysbirds-l] Jones Beach Shrike Is there no chance at all that this bird may be a hybrid?

[nysbirds-l] Jones Beach Shrike

2010-12-01 Thread Orhan Birol
Is there no chance at all that this bird may be a hybrid? Orhan Birol Shelter Island -- NYSbirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2)

[nysbirds-l] barring on the Jones Beach shrike's back?

2010-12-01 Thread Tait Johansson
I have only seen this bird at a great distance through a scope, but if you look at Phil Jeffrey's second photo and size it "Large": http://www.flickr.com/photos/phil-jeffrey/5198713688/sizes/l/in/photostream/ it may be just how the feathers are arranged, but doesn't it look like there's

[nysbirds-l] Shrike id.

2010-12-01 Thread Andrew Block
I'm one of the many who tend to lean towards a small Northern.  Many birds and mammals have smaller than normal individuals in the population.  I agree the bird has a few characteristics of Loggerhead but to me most of the identifying points such as bill hook size & color, behavior, body color,

RE: [nysbirds-l] Identity of Jones Beach Shrike

2010-12-01 Thread Shaibal Mitra
It's worth noting that mid 20th Century birders knew Loggerhead Shrike as a regular fall vagrant on LI and coastal southern New England, perhaps comparable in frequency to Western Kingbird. These fall Loggerheads mostly occurred much earlier than Northern Shrike would be expected, from late

RE: [nysbirds-l] Identity of Jones Beach Shrike

2010-12-01 Thread Kevin J. McGowan
Sure, and the correct ID has been found because the specimen still existed to be examined. Check out http://elibrary.unm.edu/sora/Wilson/v065n01/p0046-p0047.pdf for two such stories from the same flock of birds. But, these two shrike species are so different when put side-by-side that I

RE: [nysbirds-l] Identity of Jones Beach Shrike

2010-12-01 Thread Grover, Bob
I know I risk excoriation here, but has a museum study skin never been misidentified? Bob Grover From: bounce-7483823-3714...@list.cornell.edu [mailto:bounce-7483823-3714...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Kevin J. McGowan Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 10:33 AM To: Hugh McGuinness; Shaibal

Re: [nysbirds-l] Identity of Jones Beach Shrike

2010-12-01 Thread Richard Veit
i think this one is clearly a northern. i lean pretty strongly towards thinking the jones beach one is a loggerhead, though.  Richard R. Veit Professor Biology Department CSI/CUNY 2800 Victory Boulevard Staten Island, NY 10314 718-982-3853 Fax 718-982-3852

Re: [nysbirds-l] Identity of Jones Beach Shrike

2010-12-01 Thread grosb...@clarityconnect.com
Hello, I agree Angus' bird is a good Northern, but the bird that Shai posted is interesting!! I leaned slightly towards a small Northern with the Jones beach bird, but admit there's some conflicting characteristics present. Color of bill, lack of barring on the back, look of mask (this trait is

[nysbirds-l] Pelagic Trip Announcement - NYSOA/NYSYBC

2010-12-01 Thread Chris Tessaglia-Hymes
The following is a Pelagic Trip announcement on behalf of the New York State Ornithological Association and the New York State Young Birders Club. "The New York State Ornithological Association (NYSOA) and the New York State Young Birders Club (NYSYBC) have arranged a pelagic birding weekend

Re: [nysbirds-l] Identity of Jones Beach Shrike

2010-12-01 Thread Phil Jeffrey
My own shots of the Shrike, showing some detail: http://www.flickr.com/photos/phil-jeffrey/5198713710/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/phil-jeffrey/5198713688/ Phil Jeffrey -- NYSbirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES

RE: [nysbirds-l] Identity of Jones Beach Shrike

2010-12-01 Thread Kevin J. McGowan
Angus, To me your bird looks like a Northern. The mask is barely deeper than the eye and trails down toward the nape. The color of the head is pale, not dark like most Loggerheads (very noticeable in the drawers). And the bill appears longer and straighter. Cheers, Kevin Kevin J.

Re: [nysbirds-l] Identity of Jones Beach Shrike

2010-12-01 Thread Angus Wilson
It seems appropriate to throw one more bird into the discussion mix; a shrike that I found on 31 Oct 2010 in the Theodore Roosevelt County Park in Montauk (Suffolk Co.), a few hundred yards from a Brewer's Blackbird. If I recall correctly, this was shortly after the discovery of the Jones Beach

RE: [nysbirds-l] Identity of Jones Beach Shrike

2010-12-01 Thread Kevin J. McGowan
Funny, but I was going to ask about this shrike yesterday to see if anyone had taken a long hard look at it. I saw another photo and I just can't make it into a Northern Shrike. I have put some photos of a specimen from the Cornell Museum of Vertebrates that might be of interest at

Re: [nysbirds-l] Identity of Jones Beach Shrike

2010-12-01 Thread Hugh McGuinness
Just to add some other images, here are some photos of Loggerhead Shrike photo showing vermiculations http://www.beachhunter.net/blog/2008/04/wherefore-art-thou-loggerhead.html http://sdakotabirds.com/species/loggerhead_shrike_info.htm And here is Kevin McGowan's pretty excellent review of the

RE:[nysbirds-l] Identity of Jones Beach Shrike

2010-12-01 Thread Shaibal Mitra
I forgot to include links to photos. Here are a few of my own, with a couple of Northern Shrike shots for comparison: http://picasaweb.google.com/tixbirdz/LongIslandMiscellany2010# Here are some from John Gluth: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jgluth_brb/sets/72157625379326695/with/5212944549/

[nysbirds-l] Identity of Jones Beach Shrike

2010-12-01 Thread Shaibal Mitra
A shrike present at Jones Beach West End, Nassau County, LI has been identified by many as a Northern Shrike, but a considerable amount of back-channel discussion has questioned whether it might actually be a Loggerhead. When I finally saw this bird well this past weekend I was already aware of

[nysbirds-l] Identity of Jones Beach Shrike

2010-12-01 Thread Shaibal Mitra
A shrike present at Jones Beach West End, Nassau County, LI has been identified by many as a Northern Shrike, but a considerable amount of back-channel discussion has questioned whether it might actually be a Loggerhead. When I finally saw this bird well this past weekend I was already aware of

RE:[nysbirds-l] Identity of Jones Beach Shrike

2010-12-01 Thread Shaibal Mitra
I forgot to include links to photos. Here are a few of my own, with a couple of Northern Shrike shots for comparison: http://picasaweb.google.com/tixbirdz/LongIslandMiscellany2010# Here are some from John Gluth: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jgluth_brb/sets/72157625379326695/with/5212944549/

RE: [nysbirds-l] Identity of Jones Beach Shrike

2010-12-01 Thread Kevin J. McGowan
Funny, but I was going to ask about this shrike yesterday to see if anyone had taken a long hard look at it. I saw another photo and I just can't make it into a Northern Shrike. I have put some photos of a specimen from the Cornell Museum of Vertebrates that might be of interest at

RE: [nysbirds-l] Identity of Jones Beach Shrike

2010-12-01 Thread Kevin J. McGowan
Angus, To me your bird looks like a Northern. The mask is barely deeper than the eye and trails down toward the nape. The color of the head is pale, not dark like most Loggerheads (very noticeable in the drawers). And the bill appears longer and straighter. Cheers, Kevin Kevin J.

[nysbirds-l] Pelagic Trip Announcement - NYSOA/NYSYBC

2010-12-01 Thread Chris Tessaglia-Hymes
The following is a Pelagic Trip announcement on behalf of the New York State Ornithological Association and the New York State Young Birders Club. The New York State Ornithological Association (NYSOA) and the New York State Young Birders Club (NYSYBC) have arranged a pelagic birding weekend

Re: [nysbirds-l] Identity of Jones Beach Shrike

2010-12-01 Thread grosb...@clarityconnect.com
Hello, I agree Angus' bird is a good Northern, but the bird that Shai posted is interesting!! I leaned slightly towards a small Northern with the Jones beach bird, but admit there's some conflicting characteristics present. Color of bill, lack of barring on the back, look of mask (this trait is

RE: [nysbirds-l] Identity of Jones Beach Shrike

2010-12-01 Thread Kevin J. McGowan
Sure, and the correct ID has been found because the specimen still existed to be examined. Check out http://elibrary.unm.edu/sora/Wilson/v065n01/p0046-p0047.pdf for two such stories from the same flock of birds. But, these two shrike species are so different when put side-by-side that I

RE: [nysbirds-l] Identity of Jones Beach Shrike

2010-12-01 Thread Shaibal Mitra
It's worth noting that mid 20th Century birders knew Loggerhead Shrike as a regular fall vagrant on LI and coastal southern New England, perhaps comparable in frequency to Western Kingbird. These fall Loggerheads mostly occurred much earlier than Northern Shrike would be expected, from late

[nysbirds-l] barring on the Jones Beach shrike's back?

2010-12-01 Thread Tait Johansson
I have only seen this bird at a great distance through a scope, but if you look at Phil Jeffrey's second photo and size it Large: http://www.flickr.com/photos/phil-jeffrey/5198713688/sizes/l/in/photostream/ it may be just how the feathers are arranged, but doesn't it look like there's

[nysbirds-l] Jones Beach Shrike

2010-12-01 Thread Orhan Birol
Is there no chance at all that this bird may be a hybrid? Orhan Birol Shelter Island -- NYSbirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2)

RE: [nysbirds-l] Jones Beach Shrike

2010-12-01 Thread grosb...@clarityconnect.com
The two species don't overlap in breeding range. Matt Original Message: - From: Orhan Birol orhanbir...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 12:39:00 -0500 To: NYSBIRDS-L@cornell.edu Subject: [nysbirds-l] Jones Beach Shrike Is there no chance at all that this bird may be a hybrid?

RE: [nysbirds-l] Jones Beach Shrike

2010-12-01 Thread grosb...@clarityconnect.com
Hello all, Just to keep everyone up on the Shrike thread --I put Shai's and Kevin McGowan's emails (with photo attachments of the bird) to ID-Frontiers to see what some of the best around the U.S. and the world have to say on the Jones Beach Shrike. I have not heard from Pyle yet. So far,

Re: [nysbirds-l] Identity of Jones Beach Shrike

2010-12-01 Thread Angus Wilson
It seems appropriate to throw one more bird into the discussion mix; a shrike that I found on 31 Oct 2010 in the Theodore Roosevelt County Park in Montauk (Suffolk Co.), a few hundred yards from a Brewer's Blackbird. If I recall correctly, this was shortly after the discovery of the Jones Beach

RE: [nysbirds-l] Identity of Jones Beach Shrike

2010-12-01 Thread Grover, Bob
I know I risk excoriation here, but has a museum study skin never been misidentified? Bob Grover From: bounce-7483823-3714...@list.cornell.edu [mailto:bounce-7483823-3714...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Kevin J. McGowan Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 10:33 AM To: Hugh McGuinness; Shaibal