[nysbirds-l] Corporate takeover of Kings County Floyd Bennett Field sections??

[ProsBird]

If having Aviator Sports is bad enough, look what the door open to   
Getting wide now with all that open grassland space looking grand for 
corporate  rental leasing of a park land Never ends... I am sending you the 
latest  ridiculous idea concerning Floyd Bennett Field and its under threat 
grasslands  if birders and conservationists don't unite to save FBF..And I 
heard 
this  attempt is trying to avoid Public hearings.Its a scary precedent ( 
for birds,  birders and wildlife and of course habitat loss) .Pass the  
wordPeter,Brooklyn Bird Club
 
_http://nbii-nin.ciesin.columbia.edu/jamaicabay/_ 
(http://nbii-nin.ciesin.columbia.edu/jamaicabay/) 
 
This is the US Congressional bill 
_http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/cpquery/R?cp112:FLD010:@1(hr373_ 
(http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/cpquery/R?cp112:FLD010:@1(hr373) )
 
 which would allow the National Park Service to lease part of Floyd  
Bennett ( or other gateway property)  to National Grid Gas (NYC 's primary  gas 
company) , with one bill phrase saying ""To authorize the Secretary of  the 
Interior to allow the construction and operation of natural gas pipeline  
facilities in the Gateway National Recreation Area, and for other  purposes".  
 
see the right side bar of the above 1st link which includes the 2nd  link , 
the House rep bill
 
 
February, 2012
New York City Natural Gas Supply Enhancement Act  Threatens Floyd Bennett 
Field
The U.S. Congress is considering H. R. 2606 New York City Natural Gas 
Supply  Enhancement Act which authorizes the Secretary of the Interior to: (1) 
issue  permits to allow the planning, construction, operation, and maintenance 
of  natural gas pipeline facilities in the Gateway National Recreation Area 
(New  Jersey-New York); and (2) enter into a lease agreement to allow the 
occupancy  and use of an aircraft hanger building on Floyd Bennett Field 
(Brooklyn, New  York) to house facilities associated with the operation of 
natural gas pipeline  facilities. 
_http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/cpquery/R?cp112:FLD010:@1(hr373_ 
(http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/cpquery/R?cp112:FLD010:@1(hr373) )
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[nysbirds-l] Snowy Owl Dust-up: Mea Culpa

[Archer Midland]

Dear Ladies and Gentlemen,

I seem to have shot the Archduke Ferdinand.

As the majority of my life-birding experience has involved walking around
the abandoned fields and parks of Houston sans binoculars, guidebook or
camera, this whole arena of birders vs. photographers, publicity vs privacy
etc is all pretty new to me. There was enough open space and deficit of
interest in Houston that I nor the birds were ever bothered in our
encounters with each other.

I now live in the largest and most densely populated city in these United
states. I also have since joined the binoculars and guide crew, but not yet
the listing crew or the photo crew. This was my first foray into the
reporting crew, and I can't say it has been overwhelmingly successful.
Maybe it is the fact of this city's density, the need to connect with
others, the need to contrast steel and concrete with "wildlife" that has
led to a greater participation in the birding community. One thing is
certain, this participation has been largely based upon and shepherded by
the Internet.

Through eBird, listings, and the great work of bloggers such as Mr.Jett and
Mr.Dorosh I have been introduced to a different sort of exploration and
viewing, and been introduced to some of NYC's more amazing "natural"
places, all the more special for their inherent paradox. Would I have
explored the amazingly abandoned Calvert Vaux if not for a posting of a
rare white-fronted goose? Probably not. Due to this, my being "brought up"
in this community due to the internet, I felt obliged to return something
and share the sighting of these owls.

I would argue that indeed there are times where birds should not be
reported to the larger community. If I were to espy a nesting pair of heath
hens in Flushing Meadows, you can be certain I would go to the proper
wildlife authorities instead of announcing their presence to the general
public. Contrarily, we are now experiencing an unusually large irruption of
Snowy Owls in the states, with hundreds and maybe even thousands of
sightings being reported. Snowy Owls are also not an endangered species. In
this context and light it didn't feel it wrong to post about the owls.

In addition, I believe that there no longer exists any square mile of land
anywhere in the tri-state area or perhaps in the world that can truly be
called "wild." Nature at this point in history exists in a tenuous struggle
with mankind at every level. If the goal is the conservation and expansion
of spaces in which Nature takes a larger role, Man must first be enlisted
to this purpose. In this light it would be in our best interest to show
Snowy Owls to anyone who wants to see them, and indeed to those who could
care less about them, for nothing educates like raw experience. To those
who wish to keep the Owls to yourselves, you will literally not be missed,
but to announce your owl-retention in public is tantalizingly close to the
old-style biblical example of hypocrisy. If you engage others then spaces
such as the Ridgewood reservoir and Four Sparrow Marsh will have more
advocates instead of less.

The context should be one of active as opposed to passive participation in
these hybrid spaces. If it is your judgement that ignorant behavior is
being practiced in the field you will feel better if you at least talk to
the person. Perhaps in the future if sensitive birds are to be posted,
there should be some precautions taken to make sure the educational
experience is as enlightening as possible, to those in predator-photography
mode, dog-running stick breaking mode and naive-with-open eyes child mode
all. There needs to be a greater forum for these arenas of interaction.

Now about those black rails I saw on the lower east side..

Archer M.
Brooklyn, NY

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Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

[Kyle Bardwell]

Hello,
I wanted to share my view as an 18 year old freshman in college. I have 
been birding hard for 4 years now. I have met many people, and since we are 
talking about birdwatching, I have met many older people. There have been many 
times where I have said WOW what an amazing day of birding, and I get the 
response " you should have seen it 30 years ago." I think that if the birding 
community focuses all of its attention on parasitic bird photographers, in the 
future I will be the one telling a young kid " you should have seen it 30 years 
ago". Isn't there much bigger threats to bird populations than bird 
photographers. Are they the reason why birding is not as good as it used to be. 
I am only 18 but I dont think so. Correct me if I am wrong, but I remember 
reading a post about a threat to the Four Sparrow Marsh. There were maybe 
three replies to that email. I think that should get a whole lot more 
attention. I have won a few awards on researcg
 regarding populations of eastern screech owls in relation to urbanization. I 
talked to over three hundred third fourth and fifth graders about the 
inportance of biodiversity and birds in our area. I have also recieved an 
audubon award for a bird picture I took. What group am I in? Am i parasite? Am 
i a birdwatcher? I am just a fan of birds
Kyle Bardwell

From: Tom Kerr 
To: NYSBirds  
Sent: Tuesday, February 7, 2012 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it


Hi Everyone,  

Just to add my 2 cents on Owls.   

I was taught owls are not to be posted.  I found a Saw-whet Owl once and 
returned with friends the next day.  There were dozens of pellets at the base 
of the tree.  This owl had been there for weeks.  I never saw it again.  4 
people were enough to chase it off in the dead of winter for good, and I 
learned my lesson.  The only owl I have reported seeing to an RBA was a Snowy 
Owl on an inaccessible island visible from shore, hundreds of yards out.  If I 
ask a birder I have just met about owls and they don't want to tell me where 
they are, that is just fine.  I have asked and been told "no, its a secret."  I 
have more respect for a birder that thinks about the bird's well-being first 
than one who wants to brag and show it off like a trophy.  If you post the 
location of a roosting owl, or any bird for that matter, you have to share some 
responsibility for what happens to it, good or bad.  If you know photographers 
are going to chase after it, or
 people are going to play calls at it all day long, you should probably take 
the bird's best interests into account and keep it to yourself.  Use common 
sense.  If this means new birders don't get to see it, then that's the way it 
has to be.  I don't see anything wrong with having to earn your way into the 
birding community. 

On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Will Raup  wrote:

 
>Photographers are clearly muggles, but the birding community has its share of 
>deatheaters.
>
>
>Will Raup
>Albany, NY
>
> 
>
>Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it
>From: jacobdruc...@msn.com
>Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 16:53:32 -0500
>CC: gregoryfis...@sprintmail.com; peterbilt.bir...@yahoo.com; 
>nysbirds-l@cornell.edu
>To: fpimen...@verizon.net 
>
>
>When will Harry Potter fans get involved in this discussion? 
>
>
>Jacob 
>
>
>On Feb 6, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Felipe Pimentel wrote:
>
>Dan,
>>
>>
>>The problem with your suggestion is the potential danger of creating a kind 
>>of "birding war" that would not help to solve any problem but may create new 
>>ones, including potentially violent encounters in the field that we must 
>>avoid. More productive could be the development of some flexible guidelines 
>>by some local groups (like the Audubon society) about what birders or bird 
>>photographers should do and not do in the field. Codes of ethics are by 
>>definition general moral principles. In my humble opinion the best policy is 
>>self-restraint and a good sense of personal responsibility. 
>> There are issues that will never be solved. For example, the issue of 
>>"disturbing" birds or approaching birds. Maybe for a particular birder being 
>>too close to a bird means 50 feet away while for others may be only 30. 
>>Massive birding by definition is a potential disturbance for many birds. When 
>>you have 60 bird watchers congregated on the same spot that could create be 
>>more disturbance than a single photographer taking pictures of the same bird 
>>even at a closer distance.
>> What I am trying to say is that things cannot be one-dimensional and that 
>>practical common sense cannot be like the Ten Commandments (for those who are 
>>believers), written in stone.
>>FP 
>>
>>On Feb 6, 2012, at 3:39 PM, Gregory Fisher wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hey Dan,
>>>
>>> I am fine with that as long as you at least try to educate the individuals 
>>>exhibiting the poor behavior.  Some people are just ignorant and just need a 
>>>little guidance.  

[nysbirds-l] RFI - Barnacle Goose

[fresha2411]

Does anybody know if the Barnacle Goose is still being seen in Eastport?
If it's not, I'd still like to know of any recent sightings of it.

Thanks
-Doug Gochfeld

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[nysbirds-l] F. King Eider, Cackling Goose -YES- Glen Cove

[Arie Gilbert]

  
  
I went to East Island in Glen Cove today and was able to relocate
the F. King Eider ca. half way between the rocks and the navigation
buoy to the east. I was then joined by Ann, Alice , Dale and Lenore 
and was able to locate a Cackling Goose on Dosoris Pond. 

Unfortunately I was unable to locate the Eur Green-winged Teal on
Smith Pond in Rockville Center, nor te GR White-fronted Goose in
Gerry Pond
--- If either of the last two are relocated please post or contact
me privately.


  
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Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

[Tom Kerr]

Hi Everyone,

Just to add my 2 cents on Owls.

I was taught owls are not to be posted.  I found a Saw-whet Owl once and
returned with friends the next day.  There were dozens of pellets at the
base of the tree.  This owl had been there for weeks.  I never saw it
again.  4 people were enough to chase it off in the dead of winter for
good, and I learned my lesson.  The only owl I have reported seeing to an
RBA was a Snowy Owl on an inaccessible island visible from shore, hundreds
of yards out.  If I ask a birder I have just met about owls and they don't
want to tell me where they are, that is just fine.  I have asked and been
told "no, its a secret."  I have more respect for a birder that thinks
about the bird's well-being first than one who wants to brag and show it
off like a trophy.  If you post the location of a roosting owl, or any bird
for that matter, you have to share some responsibility for what happens to
it, good or bad.  If you know photographers are going to chase after it, or
people are going to play calls at it all day long, you should probably take
the bird's best interests into account and keep it to yourself.  Use common
sense.  If this means new birders don't get to see it, then that's the way
it has to be.  I don't see anything wrong with having to earn your way into
the birding community.

On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Will Raup  wrote:

>
> Photographers are clearly muggles, but the birding community has its share
> of deatheaters.
>
>
> Will Raup
> Albany, NY
>
>
> --
> Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't
> get it
> From: jacobdruc...@msn.com
> Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 16:53:32 -0500
> CC: gregoryfis...@sprintmail.com; peterbilt.bir...@yahoo.com;
> nysbirds-l@cornell.edu
> To: fpimen...@verizon.net
>
>
> When will Harry Potter fans get involved in this discussion?
>
> Jacob
>
> On Feb 6, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Felipe Pimentel wrote:
>
> Dan,
>
> The problem with your suggestion is the potential danger of creating a
> kind of "birding war" that would not help to solve any problem but may
> create new ones, including potentially violent encounters in the field that
> we must avoid. More productive could be the development of some flexible
> guidelines by some local groups (like the Audubon society) about what
> birders or bird photographers should do and not do in the field. Codes of
> ethics are by definition general moral principles. In my humble opinion the
> best policy is self-restraint and a good sense of personal responsibility.
>
>  There are issues that will never be solved. For example, the issue of
> "disturbing" birds or approaching birds. Maybe for a particular birder
> being too close to a bird means 50 feet away while for others may be only
> 30. Massive birding by definition is a potential disturbance for many
> birds. When you have 60 bird watchers congregated on the same spot that
> could create be more disturbance than a single photographer taking pictures
> of the same bird even at a closer distance.
>
>  What I am trying to say is that things cannot be one-dimensional and
> that practical common sense cannot be like the Ten Commandments (for those
> who are believers), written in stone.
>
> FP
>
>
> On Feb 6, 2012, at 3:39 PM, Gregory Fisher wrote:
>
>
> Hey Dan,
>
>  I am fine with that as long as you at least try to educate the
> individuals exhibiting the poor behavior.  Some people are just ignorant
> and just need a little guidance.  Yesterday's example by Adam is a prime
> example.  You approach them, try to considerately educate them.  When they
> resist and blow you off then communicate to others.  Everyone deserves a
> fair shake.
>
> Greg
>
> -Original Message-
>
> From: Dan 
>
> Sent: Feb 6, 2012 3:35 PM
>
> To: Gregory Fisher 
>
> Cc: "" , NY BIRDS Cornell
> 
>
> Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't
> get it
>
>
> Let's all take photos of photographers that misbehave. Be SURE to post
> them to the appropriate listserve. If you see that photographer enter their
> vehicle, try to photograph the make and model and the license plate number
> too :)
>
>
> Good birding!
>
>
> Dan Furbish
>
> peterbilt.bir...@yahoo.com
>
>
>
> --
>
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>
> Please submit your observations to eBird:
> http://ebird.org/content/ebird/
>
> --
>
>
> --
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RE: [nysbirds-l] ethics, photographers, knee-jerks, op-eds

[Patrick Santinello]

So to recap the final score in the Birding Super Bowl of Whining

 

Indignant casual birder 14

Righteous photographers who cause no harm 9

Elitist birders who withhold sightings 7

Sensitive birders who see all sides 17

Pushy photographers who flush Owls 0

Silent lurkers who enjoy reading posts about birds 176,894

 

Can't we get back to birds??

 

Sorry but, is this subject not beaten to death at this point?..please accept
my humorous suggestion to move on.

 

Thanks.

Patrick in Eastport

 

From: bounce-39770075-13703...@list.cornell.edu
[mailto:bounce-39770075-13703...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Nadine
Scarpa
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 3:40 PM
To: Jim Osterlund
Cc: NYSBIRDS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] ethics, photographers, knee-jerks, op-eds

 

On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 1:58 PM, Jim Osterlund 
wrote:

"Capitalism is the American way, and I'm all for it.  So let's consider a
capitalistic approach to the problem.  Let's boycott, and advocate
boycotting to others, the sale of those photos.  Let's point out to the
editors of publications we see with photos that cause us concern exactly
what our concerns are and that our concerns might lead us to ceasing to
subscribe. "

 

The sale of WHICH photos?  How on earth are you going to know which photos
were taken "appropriately" (without causing a disturbance to the subject)
and which were taken "inappropriately"?  MANY photographers have amazingly
huge lenses that allow for shots from long distances - so you would have no
way to know how close a photo was taken.

 

Now it appears you may be punishing ALL photographers for the actions of a
few.

 

If you know a specific NAME of a photographer who acts inappropriately while
taking wildlife photos, go ahead and boycott them.  However, many
photographers sell their photos to other companies, so that wouldn't even
work.

 

There is no good way to do this, other than to try and educate the
photographers and birders who WANT to be educated, and report the rest to
the appropriate authorities.

On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 1:58 PM, Jim Osterlund 
wrote:

Response I got from NYSDEC echos that given to another who's posted here.
It was basically advise to contact the appropriate ECO, but it included a
discouraging addition;  "Yes harassing wildlife is a violation of the ECL.
Proving it and prosecuting it is another issue." 

 

So, we've heard anecdotes, opinions, bile, ridicule and humor, but little
has been gained beyond exposing the old-school secret-society element.  That
has been useful to me personally.  it has been my wont to accurately show
locations with my posts and even to supplement the posts of others;  I will
discontinue that practice lest I incur reprisal for offending them.

 

One aspect of the original problem has gone untouched, curiously enough, and
goes to the distinction between "them" and "us".  "We" are amateurs,
hobbyists;  even those of us with credentials are to be so considered
because we don't get paid for it.  When we get a particularly good sighting
or photograph, we take it home and cherish it.  "They" copyright and post
their photos, offering them for sale.  "We" try for the best view or shot we
can get, the more to cherish;  "they" try for the better shot to increase
its value.  "They" are at work;  "we" are at play.  Things like codes of
ethics, consideration, good manners;  these are for the likes of "us", and
not for professionals at work.

 

Capitalism is the American way, and I'm all for it.  So let's consider a
capitalistic approach to the problem.  Let's boycott, and advocate
boycotting to others, the sale of those photos.  Let's point out to the
editors of publications we see with photos that cause us concern exactly
what our concerns are and that our concerns might lead us to ceasing to
subscribe.  Let word of this spread amongst "them";  we saw in an anecdote
posted earlier that a photographer doing wrong responded immediately and
correctly - to word from another photographer.

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Re: [nysbirds-l] ethics, photographers, knee-jerks, op-eds

[Nadine Scarpa]

On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 1:58 PM, Jim Osterlund wrote:

"Capitalism is the American way, and I'm all for it.  So let's consider a
capitalistic approach to the problem.  Let's boycott, and advocate
boycotting to others, the sale of those photos.  Let's point out to the
editors of publications we see with photos that cause us concern exactly
what our concerns are and that our concerns might lead us to ceasing to
subscribe. "

The sale of WHICH photos?  How on earth are you going to know which photos
were taken "appropriately" (without causing a disturbance to the subject)
and which were taken "inappropriately"?  MANY photographers have amazingly
huge lenses that allow for shots from long distances - so you would have no
way to know how close a photo was taken.

Now it appears you may be punishing ALL photographers for the actions of a
few.

If you know a specific NAME of a photographer who acts inappropriately
while taking wildlife photos, go ahead and boycott them.  However, many
photographers sell their photos to other companies, so that wouldn't even
work.

There is no good way to do this, other than to try and educate the
photographers and birders who WANT to be educated, and report the rest to
the appropriate authorities.
On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 1:58 PM, Jim Osterlund wrote:

> Response I got from NYSDEC echos that given to another who's posted here.
>  It was basically advise to contact the appropriate ECO, but it included a
> discouraging addition;  "Yes harassing wildlife is a violation of the
> ECL. Proving it and prosecuting it is another issue."
>
> So, we've heard anecdotes, opinions, bile, ridicule and humor, but little
> has been gained beyond exposing the old-school secret-society element.
>  That has been useful to me personally.  it has been my wont to accurately
> show locations with my posts and even to supplement the posts of others;  I
> will discontinue that practice lest I incur reprisal for offending them.
>
> One aspect of the original problem has gone untouched, curiously enough,
> and goes to the distinction between "them" and "us".  "We" are amateurs,
> hobbyists;  even those of us with credentials are to be so considered
> because we don't get paid for it.  When we get a particularly good sighting
> or photograph, we take it home and cherish it.  "They" copyright and post
> their photos, offering them for sale.  "We" try for the best view or shot
> we can get, the more to cherish;  "they" try for the better shot to
> increase its value.  "They" are at work;  "we" are at play.  Things like
> codes of ethics, consideration, good manners;  these are for the likes of
> "us", and not for professionals at work.
>
> Capitalism is the American way, and I'm all for it.  So let's consider a
> capitalistic approach to the problem.  Let's boycott, and advocate
> boycotting to others, the sale of those photos.  Let's point out to the
> editors of publications we see with photos that cause us concern exactly
> what our concerns are and that our concerns might lead us to ceasing to
> subscribe.  Let word of this spread amongst "them";  we saw in an anecdote
> posted earlier that a photographer doing wrong responded immediately and
> correctly - to word from another photographer.
> --
> *NYSbirds-L List Info:*
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> Rules and Information 
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[nysbirds-l] Back to birding: Jamaica Bay and Floyd Bennett Field

[Sy Schiff]

Jamaica Bay Wildlife Refuge 7 February

Joe Giunta and I (Sy Schiff) arrived at the West Pond at 7:05 AM to find Debbie 
Martin focused on the BARROW'S GOLDENEYE. Soon joined by others for great 
looks, the Goldeneyes took off at 7:18. There had been at least 50 COMMON 
GOLDENEYES on the pond with a dozen still remaining. Walking back to the car, 
we found our FOS RED-WINGED BLACKBIRD singing from the top of a tree.

Floyd Bennett Field

The target Bluebird Box had an adult AMERICAN KESTREL perched on it, but the 
Northern Shrike was not found. Extensive looks from along the shore (Archery 
and Fisherman Fields) failed to locate the Eurasian Wigeon among the 100+ 
AMERICAN WIGEON scattered throughout. While driving  about we saw our FOS 
COMMON GRACKLE.

Sy

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Re: [nysbirds-l] ethics, photographers, knee-jerks, op-eds

[Jim Osterlund]

Response I got from NYSDEC echos that given to another who's posted  
here.  It was basically advise to contact the appropriate ECO, but it  
included a discouraging addition;  "Yes harassing wildlife is a  
violation of the ECL. Proving it and prosecuting it is another issue."

So, we've heard anecdotes, opinions, bile, ridicule and humor, but  
little has been gained beyond exposing the old-school secret-society  
element.  That has been useful to me personally.  it has been my wont  
to accurately show locations with my posts and even to supplement the  
posts of others;  I will discontinue that practice lest I incur  
reprisal for offending them.

One aspect of the original problem has gone untouched, curiously  
enough, and goes to the distinction between "them" and "us".  "We" are  
amateurs, hobbyists;  even those of us with credentials are to be so  
considered because we don't get paid for it.  When we get a  
particularly good sighting or photograph, we take it home and cherish  
it.  "They" copyright and post their photos, offering them for sale.   
"We" try for the best view or shot we can get, the more to cherish;   
"they" try for the better shot to increase its value.  "They" are at  
work;  "we" are at play.  Things like codes of ethics, consideration,  
good manners;  these are for the likes of "us", and not for  
professionals at work.

Capitalism is the American way, and I'm all for it.  So let's consider  
a capitalistic approach to the problem.  Let's boycott, and advocate  
boycotting to others, the sale of those photos.  Let's point out to  
the editors of publications we see with photos that cause us concern  
exactly what our concerns are and that our concerns might lead us to  
ceasing to subscribe.  Let word of this spread amongst "them";  we saw  
in an anecdote posted earlier that a photographer doing wrong  
responded immediately and correctly - to word from another photographer.

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Re: [nysbirds-l] AMNH RUHU-Retrix* Molt (NYC)

[Peter Scully]

Actually, looks like the RUHU dropped R1, R2, and R5 on the left side, leaving 
R3 and R4.  R2 is gone, contrary to the observation made in my previous post.  

-Peter


--- On Tue, 2/7/12, Peter Scully  wrote:

From: Peter Scully 
Subject: [nysbirds-l] AMNH RUHU-Retrice Molt (NYC)
To: nysbirds-l@cornell.edu
Date: Tuesday, February 7, 2012, 3:53 AM

The Rufous Hummingbird at the AMNH has dropped the majority of its retrices, 
including both R1s.  The perched bird offers excellent views of the R2s, 
whether the tail is spread or not.  An interesting look:  
www.flickr.com/photos/scullybirds/


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[nysbirds-l] Monk Parakeets continue in Massapequa / Seaford, Nassau County

[David Klauber]

I hadn't seen the parakeets for a while, but around 11:30 this morning there 
were 5 Monk Parakeets at the large stick nest. This is on the west side of 
Hicksville Road / Route 107, about 1/2 mile south of the Southern State Parkway 
exit, on the west side of the road just before a Gulf station. The entrance 
hole now seems to have moved to the south side  
  
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RE: [nysbirds-l] Of Owls, Birders, Photographers, Harry Potter, and the New York Giants

[ROBERT ADAMO]

Can I get an "Amen"?
Cheers,Bob

Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 08:57:02 -0500
Subject: [nysbirds-l] Of Owls, Birders, Photographers, Harry Potter, and the 
New York Giants
From: fredbee.ea...@gmail.com
To: NYSBirds-L@cornell.edu

All:
 
I have been birding for exactly 1,396 years, give or take a few.  I have chased 
birds on nine continents, including Atlantis.  I have shaken hands (webbed 
feet) with Dodos (birds, that is), dined on turtle soup with Audubon, and been 
burned at the stake for practicing wishcraft to make birds appear.  I told the 
town elders it was only spishing, but hey, it was 1642, and what did they know? 
 After all that, I can honestly say I have no idea any more.what this 
discussion is all about.  But it is the most entertaining, testosterone-fueled 
ego-contest since the Super Bowl, all of two days ago.  I say let's nuke the 
owls, ourselves, and everything else, except the rock doves, er, pigeons.  We 
all know they're going to inherit the earth anyway.

 
In other news...in the past three days I have heard Northern Cardinals, 
Black-capped Chickadees, and Song Sparrows all singing.  This is unremarkable 
in and of itself for early February, but only feels weirder because of the 
March-April weather.

 
P.S. Did you hear that Daniel Radcliffe was frequently drunk on the set of the 
HP movies?  He darn well better not have mistreated poor Hedwig.  Maybe that's 
really him (Hedwig, not Harry) out on those dunes

 
P.P.S. I'm taking bets on whether this e-mail gets in before the listserve 
owner mercifully pulls the plug.
 
Caractacus Pott
Professional Curmudgeon
aka
Fred Baumgarten
Sharon, CT/Westchester, NY
And Points In-Between
fredbee.ea...@gmail.com
 

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[nysbirds-l] Lark Sparrow at Ditch Plains

[Anthony Collerton]

Still present at 8:53am

Sent from my iPhone

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[nysbirds-l] Of Owls, Birders, Photographers, Harry Potter, and the New York Giants

[Fred Baumgarten]

All:

I have been birding for exactly 1,396 years, give or take a few.  I have
chased birds on nine continents, including Atlantis.  I have shaken hands
(webbed feet) with Dodos (birds, that is), dined on turtle soup with
Audubon, and been burned at the stake for practicing wishcraft to make
birds appear.  I told the town elders it was only spishing, but hey, it was
1642, and what did they know?  After all that, I can honestly say I have no
idea any more.what this discussion is all about.  But it is the most
entertaining, testosterone-fueled ego-contest since the Super Bowl, all of
two days ago.  I say let's nuke the owls, ourselves, and everything else,
except the rock doves, er, pigeons.  We all know they're going to inherit
the earth anyway.

In other news...in the past three days I have heard Northern Cardinals,
Black-capped Chickadees, and Song Sparrows all singing.  This is
unremarkable in and of itself for early February, but only feels weirder
because of the March-April weather.

P.S. Did you hear that Daniel Radcliffe was frequently drunk on the set of
the HP movies?  He darn well better not have mistreated poor Hedwig.  Maybe
that's really him (Hedwig, not Harry) out on those dunes

P.P.S. I'm taking bets on whether this e-mail gets in before the listserve
owner mercifully pulls the plug.

Caractacus Pott
Professional Curmudgeon
aka
Fred Baumgarten
Sharon, CT/Westchester, NY
And Points In-Between
fredbee.ea...@gmail.com

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Re:[nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

[Charles Scheffold]

I like to watch birds. I also like to photograph them. I shoot with an 800mm 
lens and quite often a 1.4x or 2x teleconverter. Would I like to be closer? Yes 
of course. But my mommy taught me manners and I know how to behave myself. 

I saw a Snowy Owl this year for the first time in my life, and it was 
magnificent. If not for this list, I never would have experienced such beauty. 
I've had many great locations shared with me by both birders and photographers 
alike.

An idiot is an idiot. But a misinformed person can always be informed. Does it 
really matter if they have a camera or a scope? I'll leave that up to you.

Charles Scheffold
http://lenselements.com



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RE: [nysbirds-l] Bad behavior

[Mark Barriger]

Nobody is saying to go out and harass every bird EXCEPT owls. Yes, you can 
flush a Yellow-rump, a Junco, sparrows, and just about every bird in our 
guides. But saying that flushing these birds and birders/photographers chasing 
a Snowy Owl up and down a beach is the same is wrong. 
Reading a quote like "  Is that really a huge deal if a Snowy Owl flies a few 
hundred yards down the beach?  I really do not think so and I have no clue why 
so many people think that. These birds did just fly hundreds of miles south 
didn't they?"
First of all when birders/photographers flush a Snowy Owl down the beach a few 
hundred yards they don't call it a day and they don't leave. Most of them walk 
the beach and again get to close and flush it again. I have seen this sort of 
behavior go on for hours and if you don't see an issue with this then shame on 
you. Snowy Owls don't fly hundreds of miles to go on a vacation and usually by 
the time they get this far south they're all beat up and lacking food, water, 
and rest. When you get a chance talk to someone who specializes in owl 
rehabilitation and they will tell you that a good deal of these Snowy Owls will 
never see the tundra again. 
I have seen at least 20 Snowy Owls and I have never seen one actively hunting.  
Why is that? Find a Snowy Owl, set up a chair or if you can sit in your car, 
and wait till dusk. Most of the time when I see Snowy Owls hunting its well 
after dusk. Thats why some people (including myself) do take issue with people 
flushing them during the day because most of the time they're just trying to 
rest. 
I think that birders cause significantly more disturbance than photographers 
do.  Do we all really think that when 30 people are lined up (even at a 
reasonable distance) from a Snowy Owl that you are not "on its mind", that it 
is not extremely aware of your presents?
Of course we are on his mind and nobody is arguing that BUT I have been to 
places with large groups of people watching Snowy Owls and if you stand back at 
a reasonable distance they never flush and I have seen plenty close they're 
eyes and rest. Just because the owl is aware of our presence doesn't mean that 
we are doing harm to the bird. Now even though the photographers move up slowly 
you'll see an alert owl who focuses in on them and eventually gets up and flies.
I think that birders cause significantly more disturbance than photographers do.
Well then in your 30 years of birding you must have missed a bunch because most 
photographers go to great lengths to get "the shot". Some have the patience to 
wait for good pictures but plenty need to cross that line to do whatever they 
have to in order to fill that memory card, get home, and upload all those 
photos. I have never seen a birder bring bait to bring an owl in closer. I have 
never seen a birder climb a tree and cut branches to get a better picture of 
that roosting owl. 
Most photographers will lie or stand still and quietly most of the time.
Maybe when it comes to other bird species but they have little patience to wait 
for owls. Normally you'll see them pull up, hop out of the car, set up the 
camera, and just start walking right towards the resting owl. Rarely will they 
be standing back with the rest of the clear headed birders watching from a safe 
distance.
The Breezy owls will have to deal with dogs, people and loads of 4x4's on the 
beach.  They will do their best to stay away from the people and when they feel 
disturbed they will fly.  That is about the best they can do.
Your absolutely right on this one. Most Snowy Owls that fly south have plenty 
to deal with. Whether it's dog walkers, joggers, atv's, cars, and of course us 
birders/photographers. Thats why we need to make sure that we are doing our 
part to not add any extra stress to them.
 
  

Mark Barriger
Wallingford, CT



 



From: hosesbroadb...@hotmail.com
To: nysbirds-l@cornell.edu
Subject: [nysbirds-l] Bad behavior
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 19:31:10 -0500





Here is my two cents based off of over 30 years of birding in this state.  I 
find this entire discussion absurd and think that everyone has pretty much 
missed the real point.  I have no clue why people get so up in arms about 
flushing owls. Let me preface this by saying that some of the people that I am 
about to criticize are people that I bird with frequently, people that I have 
known for over 20 years, people that have been to my home and my wedding.   I 
find it all extremely contradictory and hypocritical . 
 
The  same people that are finger pointing and bad mouthing and video taping and 
planning secret groups because a few people get too close to a bird, have no 
problem walking through the east pond and fulshing hundreds if not thousands of 
migratory shorebirds that are desparately trying to refuel for their huge 
migration south.  Is is possible to walk the east pond without flushing loads 
of birds? Does any one care if they flush a flock of peeps, dowitchers or 

[nysbirds-l] AMNH RUHU-Retrice Molt (NYC)

[Peter Scully]

The Rufous Hummingbird at the AMNH has dropped the majority of its retrices, 
including both R1s.  The perched bird offers excellent views of the R2s, 
whether the tail is spread or not.  An interesting look:  
www.flickr.com/photos/scullybirds/


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[nysbirds-l] AMNH RUHU-Retrice Molt (NYC)

[Peter Scully]

The Rufous Hummingbird at the AMNH has dropped the majority of its retrices, 
including both R1s.  The perched bird offers excellent views of the R2s, 
whether the tail is spread or not.  An interesting look:  
www.flickr.com/photos/scullybirds/


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RE: [nysbirds-l] Bad behavior

[Mark Barriger]

Nobody is saying to go out and harass every bird EXCEPT owls. Yes, you can 
flush a Yellow-rump, a Junco, sparrows, and just about every bird in our 
guides. But saying that flushing these birds and birders/photographers chasing 
a Snowy Owl up and down a beach is the same is wrong. 
Reading a quote like   Is that really a huge deal if a Snowy Owl flies a few 
hundred yards down the beach?  I really do not think so and I have no clue why 
so many people think that. These birds did just fly hundreds of miles south 
didn't they?
First of all when birders/photographers flush a Snowy Owl down the beach a few 
hundred yards they don't call it a day and they don't leave. Most of them walk 
the beach and again get to close and flush it again. I have seen this sort of 
behavior go on for hours and if you don't see an issue with this then shame on 
you. Snowy Owls don't fly hundreds of miles to go on a vacation and usually by 
the time they get this far south they're all beat up and lacking food, water, 
and rest. When you get a chance talk to someone who specializes in owl 
rehabilitation and they will tell you that a good deal of these Snowy Owls will 
never see the tundra again. 
I have seen at least 20 Snowy Owls and I have never seen one actively hunting.  
Why is that? Find a Snowy Owl, set up a chair or if you can sit in your car, 
and wait till dusk. Most of the time when I see Snowy Owls hunting its well 
after dusk. Thats why some people (including myself) do take issue with people 
flushing them during the day because most of the time they're just trying to 
rest. 
I think that birders cause significantly more disturbance than photographers 
do.  Do we all really think that when 30 people are lined up (even at a 
reasonable distance) from a Snowy Owl that you are not on its mind, that it 
is not extremely aware of your presents?
Of course we are on his mind and nobody is arguing that BUT I have been to 
places with large groups of people watching Snowy Owls and if you stand back at 
a reasonable distance they never flush and I have seen plenty close they're 
eyes and rest. Just because the owl is aware of our presence doesn't mean that 
we are doing harm to the bird. Now even though the photographers move up slowly 
you'll see an alert owl who focuses in on them and eventually gets up and flies.
I think that birders cause significantly more disturbance than photographers do.
Well then in your 30 years of birding you must have missed a bunch because most 
photographers go to great lengths to get the shot. Some have the patience to 
wait for good pictures but plenty need to cross that line to do whatever they 
have to in order to fill that memory card, get home, and upload all those 
photos. I have never seen a birder bring bait to bring an owl in closer. I have 
never seen a birder climb a tree and cut branches to get a better picture of 
that roosting owl. 
Most photographers will lie or stand still and quietly most of the time.
Maybe when it comes to other bird species but they have little patience to wait 
for owls. Normally you'll see them pull up, hop out of the car, set up the 
camera, and just start walking right towards the resting owl. Rarely will they 
be standing back with the rest of the clear headed birders watching from a safe 
distance.
The Breezy owls will have to deal with dogs, people and loads of 4x4's on the 
beach.  They will do their best to stay away from the people and when they feel 
disturbed they will fly.  That is about the best they can do.
Your absolutely right on this one. Most Snowy Owls that fly south have plenty 
to deal with. Whether it's dog walkers, joggers, atv's, cars, and of course us 
birders/photographers. Thats why we need to make sure that we are doing our 
part to not add any extra stress to them.
 
  

Mark Barriger
Wallingford, CT



 



From: hosesbroadb...@hotmail.com
To: nysbirds-l@cornell.edu
Subject: [nysbirds-l] Bad behavior
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 19:31:10 -0500





Here is my two cents based off of over 30 years of birding in this state.  I 
find this entire discussion absurd and think that everyone has pretty much 
missed the real point.  I have no clue why people get so up in arms about 
flushing owls. Let me preface this by saying that some of the people that I am 
about to criticize are people that I bird with frequently, people that I have 
known for over 20 years, people that have been to my home and my wedding.   I 
find it all extremely contradictory and hypocritical . 
 
The  same people that are finger pointing and bad mouthing and video taping and 
planning secret groups because a few people get too close to a bird, have no 
problem walking through the east pond and fulshing hundreds if not thousands of 
migratory shorebirds that are desparately trying to refuel for their huge 
migration south.  Is is possible to walk the east pond without flushing loads 
of birds? Does any one care if they flush a flock of peeps, dowitchers or 
yellow 

[nysbirds-l] Of Owls, Birders, Photographers, Harry Potter, and the New York Giants

[Fred Baumgarten]

All:

I have been birding for exactly 1,396 years, give or take a few.  I have
chased birds on nine continents, including Atlantis.  I have shaken hands
(webbed feet) with Dodos (birds, that is), dined on turtle soup with
Audubon, and been burned at the stake for practicing wishcraft to make
birds appear.  I told the town elders it was only spishing, but hey, it was
1642, and what did they know?  After all that, I can honestly say I have no
idea any more.what this discussion is all about.  But it is the most
entertaining, testosterone-fueled ego-contest since the Super Bowl, all of
two days ago.  I say let's nuke the owls, ourselves, and everything else,
except the rock doves, er, pigeons.  We all know they're going to inherit
the earth anyway.

In other news...in the past three days I have heard Northern Cardinals,
Black-capped Chickadees, and Song Sparrows all singing.  This is
unremarkable in and of itself for early February, but only feels weirder
because of the March-April weather.

P.S. Did you hear that Daniel Radcliffe was frequently drunk on the set of
the HP movies?  He darn well better not have mistreated poor Hedwig.  Maybe
that's really him (Hedwig, not Harry) out on those dunes

P.P.S. I'm taking bets on whether this e-mail gets in before the listserve
owner mercifully pulls the plug.

Caractacus Pott
Professional Curmudgeon
aka
Fred Baumgarten
Sharon, CT/Westchester, NY
And Points In-Between
fredbee.ea...@gmail.com

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[nysbirds-l] Lark Sparrow at Ditch Plains

[Anthony Collerton]

Still present at 8:53am

Sent from my iPhone

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RE: [nysbirds-l] Of Owls, Birders, Photographers, Harry Potter, and the New York Giants

[ROBERT ADAMO]

Can I get an Amen?
Cheers,Bob

Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 08:57:02 -0500
Subject: [nysbirds-l] Of Owls, Birders, Photographers, Harry Potter, and the 
New York Giants
From: fredbee.ea...@gmail.com
To: NYSBirds-L@cornell.edu

All:
 
I have been birding for exactly 1,396 years, give or take a few.  I have chased 
birds on nine continents, including Atlantis.  I have shaken hands (webbed 
feet) with Dodos (birds, that is), dined on turtle soup with Audubon, and been 
burned at the stake for practicing wishcraft to make birds appear.  I told the 
town elders it was only spishing, but hey, it was 1642, and what did they know? 
 After all that, I can honestly say I have no idea any more.what this 
discussion is all about.  But it is the most entertaining, testosterone-fueled 
ego-contest since the Super Bowl, all of two days ago.  I say let's nuke the 
owls, ourselves, and everything else, except the rock doves, er, pigeons.  We 
all know they're going to inherit the earth anyway.

 
In other news...in the past three days I have heard Northern Cardinals, 
Black-capped Chickadees, and Song Sparrows all singing.  This is unremarkable 
in and of itself for early February, but only feels weirder because of the 
March-April weather.

 
P.S. Did you hear that Daniel Radcliffe was frequently drunk on the set of the 
HP movies?  He darn well better not have mistreated poor Hedwig.  Maybe that's 
really him (Hedwig, not Harry) out on those dunes

 
P.P.S. I'm taking bets on whether this e-mail gets in before the listserve 
owner mercifully pulls the plug.
 
Caractacus Pott
Professional Curmudgeon
aka
Fred Baumgarten
Sharon, CT/Westchester, NY
And Points In-Between
fredbee.ea...@gmail.com
 

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[nysbirds-l] Monk Parakeets continue in Massapequa / Seaford, Nassau County

[David Klauber]

I hadn't seen the parakeets for a while, but around 11:30 this morning there 
were 5 Monk Parakeets at the large stick nest. This is on the west side of 
Hicksville Road / Route 107, about 1/2 mile south of the Southern State Parkway 
exit, on the west side of the road just before a Gulf station. The entrance 
hole now seems to have moved to the south side  
  
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Re: [nysbirds-l] AMNH RUHU-Retrix* Molt (NYC)

[Peter Scully]

Actually, looks like the RUHU dropped R1, R2, and R5 on the left side, leaving 
R3 and R4.  R2 is gone, contrary to the observation made in my previous post.  

-Peter


--- On Tue, 2/7/12, Peter Scully peterandrewscull...@yahoo.com wrote:

From: Peter Scully peterandrewscull...@yahoo.com
Subject: [nysbirds-l] AMNH RUHU-Retrice Molt (NYC)
To: nysbirds-l@cornell.edu
Date: Tuesday, February 7, 2012, 3:53 AM

The Rufous Hummingbird at the AMNH has dropped the majority of its retrices, 
including both R1s.  The perched bird offers excellent views of the R2s, 
whether the tail is spread or not.  An interesting look:  
www.flickr.com/photos/scullybirds/


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Re: [nysbirds-l] ethics, photographers, knee-jerks, op-eds

[Jim Osterlund]

Response I got from NYSDEC echos that given to another who's posted  
here.  It was basically advise to contact the appropriate ECO, but it  
included a discouraging addition;  Yes harassing wildlife is a  
violation of the ECL. Proving it and prosecuting it is another issue.

So, we've heard anecdotes, opinions, bile, ridicule and humor, but  
little has been gained beyond exposing the old-school secret-society  
element.  That has been useful to me personally.  it has been my wont  
to accurately show locations with my posts and even to supplement the  
posts of others;  I will discontinue that practice lest I incur  
reprisal for offending them.

One aspect of the original problem has gone untouched, curiously  
enough, and goes to the distinction between them and us.  We are  
amateurs, hobbyists;  even those of us with credentials are to be so  
considered because we don't get paid for it.  When we get a  
particularly good sighting or photograph, we take it home and cherish  
it.  They copyright and post their photos, offering them for sale.   
We try for the best view or shot we can get, the more to cherish;   
they try for the better shot to increase its value.  They are at  
work;  we are at play.  Things like codes of ethics, consideration,  
good manners;  these are for the likes of us, and not for  
professionals at work.

Capitalism is the American way, and I'm all for it.  So let's consider  
a capitalistic approach to the problem.  Let's boycott, and advocate  
boycotting to others, the sale of those photos.  Let's point out to  
the editors of publications we see with photos that cause us concern  
exactly what our concerns are and that our concerns might lead us to  
ceasing to subscribe.  Let word of this spread amongst them;  we saw  
in an anecdote posted earlier that a photographer doing wrong  
responded immediately and correctly - to word from another photographer.

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[nysbirds-l] Back to birding: Jamaica Bay and Floyd Bennett Field

[Sy Schiff]

Jamaica Bay Wildlife Refuge 7 February

Joe Giunta and I (Sy Schiff) arrived at the West Pond at 7:05 AM to find Debbie 
Martin focused on the BARROW'S GOLDENEYE. Soon joined by others for great 
looks, the Goldeneyes took off at 7:18. There had been at least 50 COMMON 
GOLDENEYES on the pond with a dozen still remaining. Walking back to the car, 
we found our FOS RED-WINGED BLACKBIRD singing from the top of a tree.

Floyd Bennett Field

The target Bluebird Box had an adult AMERICAN KESTREL perched on it, but the 
Northern Shrike was not found. Extensive looks from along the shore (Archery 
and Fisherman Fields) failed to locate the Eurasian Wigeon among the 100+ 
AMERICAN WIGEON scattered throughout. While driving  about we saw our FOS 
COMMON GRACKLE.

Sy

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RE: [nysbirds-l] ethics, photographers, knee-jerks, op-eds

[Patrick Santinello]

So to recap the final score in the Birding Super Bowl of Whining

 

Indignant casual birder 14

Righteous photographers who cause no harm 9

Elitist birders who withhold sightings 7

Sensitive birders who see all sides 17

Pushy photographers who flush Owls 0

Silent lurkers who enjoy reading posts about birds 176,894

 

Can't we get back to birds??

 

Sorry but, is this subject not beaten to death at this point?..please accept
my humorous suggestion to move on.

 

Thanks.

Patrick in Eastport

 

From: bounce-39770075-13703...@list.cornell.edu
[mailto:bounce-39770075-13703...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Nadine
Scarpa
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 3:40 PM
To: Jim Osterlund
Cc: NYSBIRDS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] ethics, photographers, knee-jerks, op-eds

 

On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 1:58 PM, Jim Osterlund james...@optonline.net
wrote:

Capitalism is the American way, and I'm all for it.  So let's consider a
capitalistic approach to the problem.  Let's boycott, and advocate
boycotting to others, the sale of those photos.  Let's point out to the
editors of publications we see with photos that cause us concern exactly
what our concerns are and that our concerns might lead us to ceasing to
subscribe. 

 

The sale of WHICH photos?  How on earth are you going to know which photos
were taken appropriately (without causing a disturbance to the subject)
and which were taken inappropriately?  MANY photographers have amazingly
huge lenses that allow for shots from long distances - so you would have no
way to know how close a photo was taken.

 

Now it appears you may be punishing ALL photographers for the actions of a
few.

 

If you know a specific NAME of a photographer who acts inappropriately while
taking wildlife photos, go ahead and boycott them.  However, many
photographers sell their photos to other companies, so that wouldn't even
work.

 

There is no good way to do this, other than to try and educate the
photographers and birders who WANT to be educated, and report the rest to
the appropriate authorities.

On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 1:58 PM, Jim Osterlund james...@optonline.net
wrote:

Response I got from NYSDEC echos that given to another who's posted here.
It was basically advise to contact the appropriate ECO, but it included a
discouraging addition;  Yes harassing wildlife is a violation of the ECL.
Proving it and prosecuting it is another issue. 

 

So, we've heard anecdotes, opinions, bile, ridicule and humor, but little
has been gained beyond exposing the old-school secret-society element.  That
has been useful to me personally.  it has been my wont to accurately show
locations with my posts and even to supplement the posts of others;  I will
discontinue that practice lest I incur reprisal for offending them.

 

One aspect of the original problem has gone untouched, curiously enough, and
goes to the distinction between them and us.  We are amateurs,
hobbyists;  even those of us with credentials are to be so considered
because we don't get paid for it.  When we get a particularly good sighting
or photograph, we take it home and cherish it.  They copyright and post
their photos, offering them for sale.  We try for the best view or shot we
can get, the more to cherish;  they try for the better shot to increase
its value.  They are at work;  we are at play.  Things like codes of
ethics, consideration, good manners;  these are for the likes of us, and
not for professionals at work.

 

Capitalism is the American way, and I'm all for it.  So let's consider a
capitalistic approach to the problem.  Let's boycott, and advocate
boycotting to others, the sale of those photos.  Let's point out to the
editors of publications we see with photos that cause us concern exactly
what our concerns are and that our concerns might lead us to ceasing to
subscribe.  Let word of this spread amongst them;  we saw in an anecdote
posted earlier that a photographer doing wrong responded immediately and
correctly - to word from another photographer.

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Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

[Tom Kerr]

Hi Everyone,

Just to add my 2 cents on Owls.

I was taught owls are not to be posted.  I found a Saw-whet Owl once and
returned with friends the next day.  There were dozens of pellets at the
base of the tree.  This owl had been there for weeks.  I never saw it
again.  4 people were enough to chase it off in the dead of winter for
good, and I learned my lesson.  The only owl I have reported seeing to an
RBA was a Snowy Owl on an inaccessible island visible from shore, hundreds
of yards out.  If I ask a birder I have just met about owls and they don't
want to tell me where they are, that is just fine.  I have asked and been
told no, its a secret.  I have more respect for a birder that thinks
about the bird's well-being first than one who wants to brag and show it
off like a trophy.  If you post the location of a roosting owl, or any bird
for that matter, you have to share some responsibility for what happens to
it, good or bad.  If you know photographers are going to chase after it, or
people are going to play calls at it all day long, you should probably take
the bird's best interests into account and keep it to yourself.  Use common
sense.  If this means new birders don't get to see it, then that's the way
it has to be.  I don't see anything wrong with having to earn your way into
the birding community.

On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Will Raup hoaryredp...@hotmail.com wrote:


 Photographers are clearly muggles, but the birding community has its share
 of deatheaters.


 Will Raup
 Albany, NY


 --
 Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't
 get it
 From: jacobdruc...@msn.com
 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 16:53:32 -0500
 CC: gregoryfis...@sprintmail.com; peterbilt.bir...@yahoo.com;
 nysbirds-l@cornell.edu
 To: fpimen...@verizon.net


 When will Harry Potter fans get involved in this discussion?

 Jacob

 On Feb 6, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Felipe Pimentel wrote:

 Dan,

 The problem with your suggestion is the potential danger of creating a
 kind of birding war that would not help to solve any problem but may
 create new ones, including potentially violent encounters in the field that
 we must avoid. More productive could be the development of some flexible
 guidelines by some local groups (like the Audubon society) about what
 birders or bird photographers should do and not do in the field. Codes of
 ethics are by definition general moral principles. In my humble opinion the
 best policy is self-restraint and a good sense of personal responsibility.

  There are issues that will never be solved. For example, the issue of
 disturbing birds or approaching birds. Maybe for a particular birder
 being too close to a bird means 50 feet away while for others may be only
 30. Massive birding by definition is a potential disturbance for many
 birds. When you have 60 bird watchers congregated on the same spot that
 could create be more disturbance than a single photographer taking pictures
 of the same bird even at a closer distance.

  What I am trying to say is that things cannot be one-dimensional and
 that practical common sense cannot be like the Ten Commandments (for those
 who are believers), written in stone.

 FP


 On Feb 6, 2012, at 3:39 PM, Gregory Fisher wrote:


 Hey Dan,

  I am fine with that as long as you at least try to educate the
 individuals exhibiting the poor behavior.  Some people are just ignorant
 and just need a little guidance.  Yesterday's example by Adam is a prime
 example.  You approach them, try to considerately educate them.  When they
 resist and blow you off then communicate to others.  Everyone deserves a
 fair shake.

 Greg

 -Original Message-

 From: Dan peterbilt.bir...@yahoo.com

 Sent: Feb 6, 2012 3:35 PM

 To: Gregory Fisher gregoryfis...@sprintmail.com

 Cc: nysbirds-l@cornell.edu nysbirds-l@cornell.edu, NY BIRDS Cornell
 NYSBirds-l@Cornell.edu

 Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't
 get it


 Let's all take photos of photographers that misbehave. Be SURE to post
 them to the appropriate listserve. If you see that photographer enter their
 vehicle, try to photograph the make and model and the license plate number
 too :)


 Good birding!


 Dan Furbish

 peterbilt.bir...@yahoo.com



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[nysbirds-l] F. King Eider, Cackling Goose -YES- Glen Cove

[Arie Gilbert]

  
  
I went to East Island in Glen Cove today and was able to relocate
the F. King Eider ca. half way between the rocks and the navigation
buoy to the east. I was then joined by Ann, Alice , Dale and Lenore
and was able to locate a Cackling Goose on Dosoris Pond. 

Unfortunately I was unable to locate the Eur Green-winged Teal on
Smith Pond in Rockville Center, nor te GR White-fronted Goose in
Gerry Pond
--- If either of the last two are relocated please post or contact
me privately.


  
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[nysbirds-l] RFI - Barnacle Goose

[fresha2411]

Does anybody know if the Barnacle Goose is still being seen in Eastport?
If it's not, I'd still like to know of any recent sightings of it.

Thanks
-Doug Gochfeld

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Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

[Kyle Bardwell]

Hello,
I wanted to share my view as an 18 year old freshman in college. I have 
been birding hard for 4 years now. I have met many people, and since we are 
talking about birdwatching, I have met many older people. There have been many 
times where I have said WOW what an amazing day of birding, and I get the 
response  you should have seen it 30 years ago. I think that if the birding 
community focuses all of its attention on parasitic bird photographers, in the 
future I will be the one telling a young kid  you should have seen it 30 years 
ago. Isn't there much bigger threats to bird populations than bird 
photographers. Are they the reason why birding is not as good as it used to be. 
I am only 18 but I dont think so. Correct me if I am wrong, but I remember 
reading a post about a threat to the Four Sparrow Marsh. There were maybe 
three replies to that email. I think that should get a whole lot more 
attention. I have won a few awards on researcg
 regarding populations of eastern screech owls in relation to urbanization. I 
talked to over three hundred third fourth and fifth graders about the 
inportance of biodiversity and birds in our area. I have also recieved an 
audubon award for a bird picture I took. What group am I in? Am i parasite? Am 
i a birdwatcher? I am just a fan of birds
Kyle Bardwell

From: Tom Kerr tyrannustyran...@gmail.com
To: NYSBirds nysbirds-l@cornell.edu 
Sent: Tuesday, February 7, 2012 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it


Hi Everyone,  

Just to add my 2 cents on Owls.   

I was taught owls are not to be posted.  I found a Saw-whet Owl once and 
returned with friends the next day.  There were dozens of pellets at the base 
of the tree.  This owl had been there for weeks.  I never saw it again.  4 
people were enough to chase it off in the dead of winter for good, and I 
learned my lesson.  The only owl I have reported seeing to an RBA was a Snowy 
Owl on an inaccessible island visible from shore, hundreds of yards out.  If I 
ask a birder I have just met about owls and they don't want to tell me where 
they are, that is just fine.  I have asked and been told no, its a secret.  I 
have more respect for a birder that thinks about the bird's well-being first 
than one who wants to brag and show it off like a trophy.  If you post the 
location of a roosting owl, or any bird for that matter, you have to share some 
responsibility for what happens to it, good or bad.  If you know photographers 
are going to chase after it, or
 people are going to play calls at it all day long, you should probably take 
the bird's best interests into account and keep it to yourself.  Use common 
sense.  If this means new birders don't get to see it, then that's the way it 
has to be.  I don't see anything wrong with having to earn your way into the 
birding community. 

On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Will Raup hoaryredp...@hotmail.com wrote:

 
Photographers are clearly muggles, but the birding community has its share of 
deatheaters.


Will Raup
Albany, NY

 

Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it
From: jacobdruc...@msn.com
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 16:53:32 -0500
CC: gregoryfis...@sprintmail.com; peterbilt.bir...@yahoo.com; 
nysbirds-l@cornell.edu
To: fpimen...@verizon.net 


When will Harry Potter fans get involved in this discussion? 


Jacob 


On Feb 6, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Felipe Pimentel wrote:

Dan,


The problem with your suggestion is the potential danger of creating a kind 
of birding war that would not help to solve any problem but may create new 
ones, including potentially violent encounters in the field that we must 
avoid. More productive could be the development of some flexible guidelines 
by some local groups (like the Audubon society) about what birders or bird 
photographers should do and not do in the field. Codes of ethics are by 
definition general moral principles. In my humble opinion the best policy is 
self-restraint and a good sense of personal responsibility. 
 There are issues that will never be solved. For example, the issue of 
disturbing birds or approaching birds. Maybe for a particular birder being 
too close to a bird means 50 feet away while for others may be only 30. 
Massive birding by definition is a potential disturbance for many birds. When 
you have 60 bird watchers congregated on the same spot that could create be 
more disturbance than a single photographer taking pictures of the same bird 
even at a closer distance.
 What I am trying to say is that things cannot be one-dimensional and that 
practical common sense cannot be like the Ten Commandments (for those who are 
believers), written in stone.
FP 

On Feb 6, 2012, at 3:39 PM, Gregory Fisher wrote:


Hey Dan,

 I am fine with that as long as you at least try to educate the individuals 
exhibiting the poor behavior.  Some people are just ignorant and just need a 
little guidance.  Yesterday's example by Adam 

[nysbirds-l] Snowy Owl Dust-up: Mea Culpa

[Archer Midland]

Dear Ladies and Gentlemen,

I seem to have shot the Archduke Ferdinand.

As the majority of my life-birding experience has involved walking around
the abandoned fields and parks of Houston sans binoculars, guidebook or
camera, this whole arena of birders vs. photographers, publicity vs privacy
etc is all pretty new to me. There was enough open space and deficit of
interest in Houston that I nor the birds were ever bothered in our
encounters with each other.

I now live in the largest and most densely populated city in these United
states. I also have since joined the binoculars and guide crew, but not yet
the listing crew or the photo crew. This was my first foray into the
reporting crew, and I can't say it has been overwhelmingly successful.
Maybe it is the fact of this city's density, the need to connect with
others, the need to contrast steel and concrete with wildlife that has
led to a greater participation in the birding community. One thing is
certain, this participation has been largely based upon and shepherded by
the Internet.

Through eBird, listings, and the great work of bloggers such as Mr.Jett and
Mr.Dorosh I have been introduced to a different sort of exploration and
viewing, and been introduced to some of NYC's more amazing natural
places, all the more special for their inherent paradox. Would I have
explored the amazingly abandoned Calvert Vaux if not for a posting of a
rare white-fronted goose? Probably not. Due to this, my being brought up
in this community due to the internet, I felt obliged to return something
and share the sighting of these owls.

I would argue that indeed there are times where birds should not be
reported to the larger community. If I were to espy a nesting pair of heath
hens in Flushing Meadows, you can be certain I would go to the proper
wildlife authorities instead of announcing their presence to the general
public. Contrarily, we are now experiencing an unusually large irruption of
Snowy Owls in the states, with hundreds and maybe even thousands of
sightings being reported. Snowy Owls are also not an endangered species. In
this context and light it didn't feel it wrong to post about the owls.

In addition, I believe that there no longer exists any square mile of land
anywhere in the tri-state area or perhaps in the world that can truly be
called wild. Nature at this point in history exists in a tenuous struggle
with mankind at every level. If the goal is the conservation and expansion
of spaces in which Nature takes a larger role, Man must first be enlisted
to this purpose. In this light it would be in our best interest to show
Snowy Owls to anyone who wants to see them, and indeed to those who could
care less about them, for nothing educates like raw experience. To those
who wish to keep the Owls to yourselves, you will literally not be missed,
but to announce your owl-retention in public is tantalizingly close to the
old-style biblical example of hypocrisy. If you engage others then spaces
such as the Ridgewood reservoir and Four Sparrow Marsh will have more
advocates instead of less.

The context should be one of active as opposed to passive participation in
these hybrid spaces. If it is your judgement that ignorant behavior is
being practiced in the field you will feel better if you at least talk to
the person. Perhaps in the future if sensitive birds are to be posted,
there should be some precautions taken to make sure the educational
experience is as enlightening as possible, to those in predator-photography
mode, dog-running stick breaking mode and naive-with-open eyes child mode
all. There needs to be a greater forum for these arenas of interaction.

Now about those black rails I saw on the lower east side..

Archer M.
Brooklyn, NY

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Re:[nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

[Charles Scheffold]

I like to watch birds. I also like to photograph them. I shoot with an 800mm 
lens and quite often a 1.4x or 2x teleconverter. Would I like to be closer? Yes 
of course. But my mommy taught me manners and I know how to behave myself. 

I saw a Snowy Owl this year for the first time in my life, and it was 
magnificent. If not for this list, I never would have experienced such beauty. 
I've had many great locations shared with me by both birders and photographers 
alike.

An idiot is an idiot. But a misinformed person can always be informed. Does it 
really matter if they have a camera or a scope? I'll leave that up to you.

Charles Scheffold
http://lenselements.com



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[nysbirds-l] Corporate takeover of Kings County Floyd Bennett Field sections??

[ProsBird]

If having Aviator Sports is bad enough, look what the door open to   
Getting wide now with all that open grassland space looking grand for 
corporate  rental leasing of a park land Never ends... I am sending you the 
latest  ridiculous idea concerning Floyd Bennett Field and its under threat 
grasslands  if birders and conservationists don't unite to save FBF..And I 
heard 
this  attempt is trying to avoid Public hearings.Its a scary precedent ( 
for birds,  birders and wildlife and of course habitat loss) .Pass the  
wordPeter,Brooklyn Bird Club
 
_http://nbii-nin.ciesin.columbia.edu/jamaicabay/_ 
(http://nbii-nin.ciesin.columbia.edu/jamaicabay/) 
 
This is the US Congressional bill 
_http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/cpquery/R?cp112:FLD010:@1(hr373_ 
(http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/cpquery/R?cp112:FLD010:@1(hr373) )
 
 which would allow the National Park Service to lease part of Floyd  
Bennett ( or other gateway property)  to National Grid Gas (NYC 's primary  gas 
company) , with one bill phrase saying To authorize the Secretary of  the 
Interior to allow the construction and operation of natural gas pipeline  
facilities in the Gateway National Recreation Area, and for other  purposes.  
 
see the right side bar of the above 1st link which includes the 2nd  link , 
the House rep bill
 
 
February, 2012
New York City Natural Gas Supply Enhancement Act  Threatens Floyd Bennett 
Field
The U.S. Congress is considering H. R. 2606 New York City Natural Gas 
Supply  Enhancement Act which authorizes the Secretary of the Interior to: (1) 
issue  permits to allow the planning, construction, operation, and maintenance 
of  natural gas pipeline facilities in the Gateway National Recreation Area 
(New  Jersey-New York); and (2) enter into a lease agreement to allow the 
occupancy  and use of an aircraft hanger building on Floyd Bennett Field 
(Brooklyn, New  York) to house facilities associated with the operation of 
natural gas pipeline  facilities. 
_http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/cpquery/R?cp112:FLD010:@1(hr373_ 
(http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/cpquery/R?cp112:FLD010:@1(hr373) )
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