[nysbirds-l] Midtown Birding

[Alan Drogin]

Winter birding at Bryant Park is an affair of attrition, the contradictory 
activity of not finding, is it really gone?  For those hardy species willing to 
stay, it is not changes in weather but sustenance that is the major decider, 
although the two are generally linked.  The last surviving tiny flowers around 
the ice skating rink briefly attracted an unidentified hummingbird the weekend 
before Thanksgiving but the following night’s cold snap killed them off along 
with the chances of catching it again Monday morning before work.

The first major snow (where it covers the ground), is always a big demarcation. 
 By the first major snow storm of December 10th, I no longer could find the 
Ovenbird of the northwest corner, the Hermit Thrush around the garden shed, or 
the bold male Common Yellowthroat that was begging along 5th Avenue.

The unusually large number of Swamp Sparrows that arrived in the fall slowly 
declined in number, but the last of them toughed out the single digits with the 
other sparrows along the north side of the rink with a lone harried-looking 
Catbird.  But once the holiday food vendors folded by the end of the first week 
in January, they and the Catbird were gone.  Now all that is left are House, 
Common White-throated, and a few Song Sparrows.

What I keep checking for, and continue to find with great cheer, is a lone 
female Eastern Towhee by the folded chairs south of the library entrance.

Happy Birding,
Alan Drogin



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[nysbirds-l] RBA Buffalo Bird Report 16 Jan 2014

[David Suggs]

- RBA
* New York
* Buffalo
* 01/16/2014
* NYBU1401.16
- Birds mentioned

  ---
  Please submit reports to
  dsu...@buffaloornithologicalsociety.org
  ---

  TUFTED DUCK [January 9 only]
  EVENING GROSBEAK
  KING EIDER
  BARROW'S GOLDENEYE
  Pied-billed Grebe
  Horned Grebe
  D.-crest. Cormorant
  Great Blue Heron
  Bl.-cr. Night-Heron
  Wood Duck
  Ring-necked Duck
  Greater Scaup
  Black Scoter
  Surf Scoter
  White-winged Scoter
  Hooded Merganser
  Common Merganser
  Ruddy Duck
  Bald Eagle
  Red-shouldered Hawk
  American Coot
  Snowy Owl
  Short-eared Owl
  Northern Flicker
  Pileated Woodpecker
  Horned Lark
  Common Raven
  American Robin
  Lapland Longspur

- Transcript
  Hotline: Buffalo Bird Report at the Buffalo Museum of Science
  Date: 01/16/2014
  Number:   716-896-1271
  To Report:Same
  Compiler: David F. Suggs
  Coverage: Western New York and adjacent Ontario
  Website:  www.BuffaloOrnithologicalSociety.org

  Thursday, January 16, 2014

  The Buffalo Bird Report is a service provided by your
  Buffalo Museum of Science and the Buffalo Ornithological
  Society. To contact the Science Museum, call 896-5200. Press
  the pound key to report sightings before the end of this
  report.

  Reports received January 9 through January 16 from the
  Niagara Frontier Region.

  The female TUFTED DUCK on the Niagara River off the Bird
  Island Pier in Buffalo has only been reported on January 9.
  The TUFTED DUCK was among abundant waterfowl, including a
  flock of 6000 GREATER SCAUP, between the Peace Bridge and
  the Lake Erie iceboom.

  Downriver of the Peace Bridge, an immature male KING EIDER
  has been lingering on the Fort Erie shoreline, near Nichols
  Marina. BARROW'S GOLDENEYE wintering again on the boundary
  of the region at Point Breeze, at Oak Orchard Creek and Lake
  Ontario, in Orleans County.

  Yes - SNOWY OWLS still across the region. In in Lake Ontario
  Plains, two SNOWY OWLS in the parking lot at Lakeside Beach
  State Park,  and single SNOWY OWLS  at Quaker and Lake Roads
  in Somerset and the Niagara-Orleans Countyline. In Genesee
  County - SNOWY OWL for two weeks at Chaddock and Molasses
  Hill Roads in Bethany. And SNOWY OWLS at their favored airports
  in Batavia, Buffalo, Dunkirk and Niagara Falls.

  January 10, an EVENING GROSBEAK at a feeder near Lake
  Ontario off Sunset Beach Parkway in Orleans County. Also,
  two PILEATED WOODPECKERS have been regulars at nearby
  Lakeside Beach State Park.

  Around Grand Island and the upper Niagara River islands -
  SURF SCOTER and 12 RING-NECKED DUCKS at Buckhorn Island
  State Park. Two WHITE-WINGED SCOTERS among COMMON MERGANSERS
  at Motor Island. And, over 50 GREAT BLUE HERONS between
  Motor and Strawberry Islands. On the Little River at
  Tonawanda Island in North Tonawanda, PIED-BILLED GREBE, WOOD
  DUCK and 24 HOODED MERGANSERS.

  From Chautauqua County, a pair of BALD EAGLES at a nest on
  Hanover Road between Route 39 and Hopper Roads, near the
  Silver Creek Reservoir. And at Dunkirk Harbor, 288 AMERICAN
  COOTS plus BLACK SCOTER, WHITE-WINGED SCOTER, RUDDY DUCK,
  HORNED GREBE, D.-CREST. CORMORANT, 4 BALD EAGLES and a BL.-
  CR. NIGHT-HERON.

  Other reports this week - SHORT-EARED OWLS continue on
  Posson Road in Shelby, north of the Iroquois Refuge. In the
  Town of Evans, RED-SHOULDERED HAWK at Route 5 by Lake Erie
  Middle School. A pair of COMMON RAVENS harassing RED-TAILED
  HAWKS at the power plant on River Road by the Niagara River
  in Tonawanda. Four NORTHERN FLICKERS at Krull Park in
  Olcott. LAPLAND LONGSPURS and HORNED LARKS on Niagara-
  Orleans Countyline Road. And, wintering AMERICAN ROBINS in
  North Boston and on Grand Island.

  The Bird Report will be updated Thursday evening, January
  23. Please call in your sightings by noon Thursday. You may
  report sightings after the tone. Thank you for calling and
  reporting.

- End Transcript

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Re: [nysbirds-l] About Iceland Gulls

[Peter Morris]

Hi all, 

Sadly, I am not nearly well read enough on the subject of Iceland/Thayer's Gull 
but I am thoroughly enjoying reading the thoughts of others.

Is there any evidence to suggest that the variation in wingtip pigmentation is 
clinal throughout the breeding range of 'Kumlien's Gull'? 

With regards to the question of vocalization, the following link has some 
interesting thoughts although not specifically relating to darker vs. paler 
winged Iceland Gulls.

http://birdingfrontiers.com/2014/01/09/calls-of-thayers-kumliens-and-iceland-gulls/


All the best,

Pete




On Thursday, January 16, 2014 9:36 AM, Shaibal Mitra 
 wrote:
 
Given that this conversation found me four times independently in one day, I 
think it's worth at least collecting some of the threads, if not measuring them 
or tying them together!
 
My perception is that the Iceland Gulls I see on Long Island and in coastal 
southern New England are very variable in terms of pigmentation (e.g., wingtip 
pattern and intensity and iris color) but not in other ways (e.g., size, 
structure, seasonality, habitat preference, and feeding habits). Even mantle 
color is close to uniform, ranging from just barely paler than American Herring 
Gull and Ring-bill to noticeably paler than these reference species.
 
When I say that they are relatively uniform and distinctive in terms of size, 
structure, seasonality, habitat preference, and feeding habits, it's important 
to calibrate this within the range of options occupied by large white-headed 
gulls as a group, all of which are incredibly similar overall and broadly 
overlapping in all the ecological variables. Thus, I'm not saying that Iceland 
Gulls never eat garbage like Glaucous Gulls, never eat ducks like Great 
Black-backed Gulls, never sit in parking lots like Herring Gulls, never dabble 
plankton like Ring-billed Gulls, or never hunt pelagic fish like Lesser 
Black-backed Gulls. Most of these species do most of these things from time to 
time, but each has its own distinctive niche around here, and my perception is 
that Iceland Gull's niche is just as distinctive as that of any of the other 
regular species.
 
When I say that large white-headed gulls are incredibly similar in overall size 
and structure, I mean to point out that the variation within species is very 
large relative to that among species. One way of illustrating this is to 
consider that basically all the possible combinations of basic size, mantle 
color, leg color, and eye color are occupied by at least one species, and that 
people have had a hard time deciding what to do when populations from different 
parts of the world show similar combinations: Kelp Gull was for a long time 
considered a subspecies of Lesser Black-backed Gull (!), Armenian Gull is 
perversely similar to California Gull, etc. Perhaps the most extreme and vexing 
example of this phenomenon involves American Herring Gull and European Herring 
Gull, which, although basically identical as adults, are apparently not closely 
related.
 
In view of all this, our Iceland Gulls seem very distinctive and stable to me, 
in every way but one (or two): wingtip pigmentation (and maybe iris 
pigmentation).
 
The reason that I don't call these birds "Kumlien's Gulls" is that to do so 
would be to imply that we regularly see or expect to see any non-kumlieni 
Iceland Gulls. I do not believe that nominate Iceland Gulls occur here 
regularly (an odd vagrant from time to time is possible but would not be 
identifiable), nor do I think that, among our Iceland Gulls, those with paler 
wingtips are more closely related to nominate birds, or that those with darker 
wingtips owe this to Thayer's or Herring or other ancestry. As described above, 
it is always possible that we could be tricked from time to time by some 
completely different species or hybrid combination that happens to line up with 
a similar character combination, but this should sort out under the weight of 
long-term evidence.
 
Because we have a series of carefully written books, we know not only that this 
variability in wingtip pigmentation has been around for more than a hundred 
years, but also that the pigmentation distribution has changed rather markedly 
over that time. Writing in 1923, Griscom clearly implies that the Iceland Gulls 
that he perceived as regular on Long Island had white wingtips. This is because 
he explicitly cites one specimen and one sight record of Kumlien's Gull, 
proving that observers were aware of and looking for the possibility of wingtip 
pigmentation. By 1964, Bull described a very complex situation which defied 
simple summary, but in which it is clear that Iceland Gull was perceived to 
have increased in overall frequency, and that both "white-winged" and 
"gray-winged" individuals were well represented.
 
Nowadays, it is clear to me that the white-winged end of the distribution is 
much scarcer than it was previously (although it is still encountered fairly 
regularly).
 

Re: [nysbirds-l] DEC's Mute Swan management plan

[Angus Wilson]

This seems like a very ambitious (read: challenging) endeavor given the
large numbers of Mute Swans that we now have in NYS, especially in coastal
areas were they occur just about everywhere (fresh and brackish habitats).
This is compounded by the fact that neighboring states and provinces also
have large numbers of birds, which are likely to quickly repopulate areas
that are cleared. Honestly I think they are planning to close the barn door
after the swan has left but as Paul Sweet notes there are legitimate
reasons for concern on behalf of native flora and fauna.

Does anyone know if other state/provinces are planning similar projects? A
concerted effort across the northeast would seem a minimal requirement for
long-term success.

Angus Wilson
New York City, NY

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RE: [nysbirds-l] DEC's Mute Swan management plan

[Paul R Sweet]

Dear Christina

While Mute Swans are indeed spectacular birds and it is not their fault that 
they are here, they are nevertheless an invasive, non-native species and 
detrimental to native wildlife. A quick Google search will find many examples 
of problems caused to native avifauna and habitat, for example from Michigan-

Mute swans are one of the world's most aggressive waterfowl species, especially 
during nesting and brood-rearing. Mute swans exhibit aggression toward other 
waterfowl and can displace native waterfowl from their nesting and feeding 
areas by attacking, injuring and even killing other birds.

In Michigan, of particular concern are native breeding waterfowl and water 
birds such as trumpeter swans (state threatened), Canada geese, ducks, common 
loons (state threatened), and black terns (state special concern).

The trumpeter swan is native to Michigan, and is on our state's threatened 
species list. It has been on the road to recovery; however, the increasing 
presence of the invasive mute swan is threatening the breeding success of this 
native bird. To ensure the protection of the trumpeter swan, the mute swan 
population must be drastically reduced.

Mute swan displacement and aggression toward native wildlife occurs frequently 
throughout North America. For example, the New York State Department of 
Environmental Conservation reported that three pairs of captive mute swans 
killed at least 50 ducks and geese in a zoo. The Maryland Department of Natural 
Resources has reported records of mute swans killing mallard ducklings, Canada 
goose goslings and cygnets of other mute swans. Not just waterfowl species are 
at risk. For example, a large molting flock of Maryland mute swans caused a 
colony of least terns and black skimmers to abandon their nesting colony by 
trampling nests containing eggs and chicks. These swans also displaced nesting 
Forster's and common terns.

Respectfully, Paul Sweet

Paul Sweet
Collection Manager
Department of Ornithology
American Museum of Natural History
Central Park West at 79th Street
New York, NY 10024

Tel: 212 769 5780
Cell: 718 757 5941

From: bounce-111943821-11471...@list.cornell.edu 
[mailto:bounce-111943821-11471...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Christina 
Wilkinson
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2014 3:29 PM
To: nysbirds-l@cornell.edu
Subject: [nysbirds-l] DEC's Mute Swan management plan

http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7076.html

First they killed geese, then owls, now they want to do it to swans.

When will this ever end?

Christina
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[nysbirds-l] Black-headed Gull in Queens

[Steve Walter]

Stephane Perrault found a BLACK-HEADED GULL on Little Neck Bay, Queens about
3:00 this afternoon. This was his report to the local group:

 

"Currently viewed 30 yards from walkway. First open space N of N boulevard.

 

Park At alley pond environmental center. Take bicycle path N along
cross-island parkway (east side of pkway). Head N past the saltmarsh, past
the train tracks (under viaduct), past the row of phragmites, past the row
of trees, first open space. On " beach" at receding tide. Not that far to
walk."

 

 

By the time I got there, the tide was lower and gulls were stretched out
over a long amount of shoreline, all the way to the mouth of Alley Creek. I
did not see it. I'll offer another recommendation if you want to look for
it. You can park by Crocheron Pond, at the end of 35th Avenue and walk over
the overpass. Walk south. From this approach, you can begin looking at birds
immediately, and it might be a shorter walk to the spot Stephane indicated.
If the tide is too high for gulls on the shoreline, there are a couple of
other places worth a look. Oakland Lake always has Ring-billed Gulls and the
Bayside Marina should have roosting gulls. I actually looked there
yesterday, not knowing a Black-headed was in the area. I had stopped off
there to scan for the Fort Totten Snowy Owl. It was indeed visible on a
light pole on the fort, a half mile away. Credit to Eric Miller for tipping
me off on that (he saw it while driving on the Cross Island). It seems that
you can drive into the fort these days, if you want  a closer look. The
Snowy has been sitting on light poles, roofs, and chimneys (toward the
southwest part of the fort), so not really susceptible to disturbance - so
no harm divulging its itinerary. Stephane, in fact, found the Black-headed
on his way back from the Snowy. Sort of that Patagonia thing.

 

Tides for the next couple of days:

DayHigh  Tide  Height   SunriseMoon  Time  % Moon

   /Low  TimeFeetSunsetVisible

 

F   17 High  12:04 AM 7.1   7:16 AM Set  7:42 AM  99

17  Low   6:05 AM 0.2   4:54 PMRise  6:40 PM

17 High  11:57 AM 7.4

17  Low   6:37 PM-0.2

 

Sa  18 High  12:24 AM 7.1   7:16 AM Set  8:13 AM  97

18  Low   6:14 AM 0.1   4:56 PMRise  7:36 PM

18 High  12:12 PM 7.3

18  Low   6:39 PM-0.2

 

 

Steve Walter

Bayside, NY

 

 


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Re: [nysbirds-l] Iceland gulls

[Andrew Baksh]

Very fascinating discussion and a welcome respite from the usual reports.
The "Iceland Gull" complex on the taxonomy of Thayer's, Kumlien’s and
Iceland Gull is a much discussed topic that I don't see ending any time
soon.

The argument for hybridization between Iceland (glaucoides) and Thayer's
have been made in the past but as of yet *(as far as I have read)* no
"acceptable" research has proven this to be true, which supports the
argument made by Shai.  R.R. Snell refuted the work presented by N.G. Smith
on hybridization of Iceland and Thayer's and I don't believe Snell's work
has ever been disputed*.  *To muddy things a bit more, we *(most of
us)*assume that Thayer's is a full species of its own.  What if it is
not and
is just a subspecies of Iceland Gull?

As Julian pointed out, there appears to be more confusion based on myths
rather than on quantitative and qualitative scientific study, on what
really accounts for the paler primary candidates of Iceland Gull vs the
darker primary types.  Until any concrete evidence is provided that there
is a "difference", it is probably just safe to refer to them all as just
"Iceland Gulls".  Out of curiosity, was there any vocalization studies ever
done on paler primary Iceland Gulls vs the darker primary types?  It would
be interesting to know if the calls leaned one way or another *(nominate
Iceland or Thayer's)* based on primary pigmentation.  I not sure if it will
prove anything but it would be interesting to know.

Going back to what started this discussion, Steve's Gull from the 12th,
could very well be the same individual I and others saw and photographed
back in January 2013 at the same Jones Beach West End II location *(Shai's
photo on Steve's website goes back as far as 2006).*  The dark primaries on
the January 2013 bird also caused some debate for a possible Thayer's but
in the end it was ruled a Kumlien's type Iceland.  Photos from that bird
are online here -
http://birdingdude.blogspot.com/2013/01/new-years-day-long-island-and-bronx.html

Very enjoyable discussion which encouraged me to do more reading up on the
topic, so thank you Steve, Shai, Mike, Phil and Julian. We need more
teaching moments like these on the list serves.

Cheers!

Andrew

Shaibal Mitra 
via
 list.cornell.edu

9:35 AM (6 hours ago)

to nysbirds-l

Given that this conversation found me four times independently in one day,
I think it's worth at least collecting some of the threads, if not
measuring them or tying them together!



My perception is that the Iceland Gulls I see on Long Island and in coastal
southern New England are very variable in terms of pigmentation (e.g.,
wingtip pattern and intensity and iris color) but not in other ways (e.g.,
size, structure, seasonality, habitat preference, and feeding habits). Even
mantle color is close to uniform, ranging from just barely paler than
American Herring Gull and Ring-bill to noticeably paler than these
reference species.



When I say that they are relatively uniform and distinctive in terms
of size, structure, seasonality, habitat preference, and feeding habits,
it's important to calibrate this within the range of options occupied by
large white-headed gulls as a group, all of which are incredibly similar
overall and broadly overlapping in all the ecological variables. Thus, I'm
not saying that Iceland Gulls never eat garbage like Glaucous Gulls, never
eat ducks like Great Black-backed Gulls, never sit in parking lots like
Herring Gulls, never dabble plankton like Ring-billed Gulls, or never hunt
pelagic fish like Lesser Black-backed Gulls. Most of these species do most
of these things from time to time, but each has its own distinctive niche
around here, and my perception is that Iceland Gull's niche is just as
distinctive as that of any of the other regular species.



When I say that large white-headed gulls are incredibly similar in overall
size and structure, I mean to point out that the variation within species
is very large relative to that among species. One way of illustrating this
is to consider that basically all the possible combinations of basic size,
mantle color, leg color, and eye color are occupied by at least one
species, and that people have had a hard time deciding what to do when
populations from different parts of the world show similar combinations:
Kelp Gull was for a long time considered a subspecies of Lesser
Black-backed Gull (!), Armenian Gull is perversely similar to California
Gull, etc. Perhaps the most extreme and vexing example of this phenomenon
involves American Herring Gull and European Herring Gull, which, although
basically identical as adults, are apparently not closely related.



In view of all this, our Iceland Gulls seem very distinctive and stable to
me, in every way but one (or two): wingtip pigmentation (and maybe iris
pigmentation).



The reason that I don't call these birds "Kumlien's Gulls" is that to do so
would 

[nysbirds-l] Pink-footed Goose

[Tim Dunn]

Pink footed goose found by Arie Gilbert in field east of Roanoke Ave in 
Riverhead  was present with flock of Canada's until 4:05pm, when it flew 
towards the south with two Canada's. 

Birds are flying out now. 

Thanks,
Tim Dunn
Sent from my iPhone

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Fwd: [nysbirds-l] Pnkfooted goose Riverhead

[Derek Rogers]

The Pink-footed Goose just took off from the field shown in Arie's coordinates. 
It headed south with a sub flock of 9 Canada Geese.

Best,
Derek Rogers
Sayville 


Begin forwarded message:

> From: Arie Gilbert 
> Date: January 16, 2014 at 2:44:24 PM EST
> To: "NYSBIRDS-L@cornell edu" 
> Subject: [nysbirds-l] Pnkfooted goose Riverhead
> Reply-To: Arie Gilbert 
> 
> 
> Beeing seen now in field also with Tunda Swan and 1000canada geese
> 
> Here is a link to my current location: 
> http://maps.google.com/maps?q=loc:40.96396,-72.699385
> 
> 01/16/2014 
> 
> 
> 01/16/2014 @ 2:44 PM
> 
> Arie Gilbert 
> No. Baylon NY
>  
> Sent from "Loretta IV" in the field
> --
> NYSbirds-L List Info:
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Re: [nysbirds-l] Iceland gulls

[julian hough]

Phil's point is true and I don't believe I was a proponent of stating that I 
didn't think hybridization was a likely cause. I am just not well-read or 
informed at all about what really is going on with the whole Iceland-Thayer's 
relationship..it is a murky gene pool with no lifeguard. 
 
Julian Hough
New Haven, CT 06519
www.naturescapeimages.wordpress.com



 From: Phil Jeffrey 
To: julian hough  
Cc: & [NYSBIRDS]  
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2014 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Iceland gulls
 


To me it makes no more sense to dismiss hybridization amongst those two species 
as a mechanism for primary darkening than it does to invoke it.  Just because 
it's not proven doesn't mean the alternative is true either.  It would be one 
thing if, say, glaucoides in Iceland (the country) were darkening its primaries 
or Glaucous Gulls or even (American) Herring Gulls were seen to do so, but I'm 
not aware of any such trend.  A Western birder might find the idea that two 
similar gull species *not* hybridizing to be alien to their experience, for 
example.  

>From my POV it makes sense to attempt to normalize intra-(sub)species 
>variation by looking at that spread in Iceland glaucoides populations in, say, 
>Iceland itself.  While more or less anything can happen with gulls, I'd be a 
>lot less likely to find the "intrinsic variation" idea worthy of Occam's Razor 
>if the range of variation in the bird-oft-referred-to-as-Kumlein's 
>substantially exceeds that in the glaucoides subspecies.

Or, more plainly put - point me to the preponderance of evidence that 
hybridization is *not* going on in this form of Iceland Gull (or whatever it 
is).

Phil





On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 12:29 PM, julian hough  wrote:

Shai distilled down some common-sensical aspect of the complications 
surrounding Iceland Gulls and what our perceptions are about how solid these 
are as a taxon. As an exiled Brit, I grew up on nominate glaucoides Iceland 
Gull and it often involved searching through these for a vagrant kumlieni 
"Kumlien's" Iceland Gull.
>It is more a continuing bad-habit that I refer to them as Kumlien's Gull here 
>since, as Shai points out, there really isn't that much of a need for 
>separating them to sub-species level in the US, as perhaps there is in Europe 
>where kumlieni shows up more regularly.
>
>
>Interestingly, adult iceland Gulls were scarce here in New England compared to 
>the numbers of first-cycle birds so it was always cool to see an adult. The 
>ones I have seen here in CT have all been mid-grey – to  pale grey pigmented 
>and black-primaried individuals seem rather uncommon at this latitude. Not 
>sure that as quantitative evidence it amounts to anything from a scientific 
>aspect but I wonder what drives the range of pigmentation  in these 
>birds…hormones, geography, actual hybridization? 
>
>
>There seems to be a lot of talk – confusion – is perhaps more apt about what 
>these birds are based on perpetuated myths about "hybrid swarms "of kumlieni 
>or interbreeding populations of kumlieni x thayeri etc and as Shai points out 
>it may not benefit us, in lieu of quantitative and qualitative scientific 
>study, to continue thinking that black-primaries Iceland Gulls here in the US 
>have "x" amounts of thayeri genes flowing through them and more 
>whiter-primaried birds have perhaps a more glaucoides influence.
>
>
>As for separating adults from nominate glaucoides Iceland Gulls from Northern 
>Europe, certain birds in Newfoundland seem to check the right boxes so with 
>care the odd bird might be identifiable by sharp observers.
>
>
>Intrestingly, the long-calls of these white-winged gulls was recently studied 
>and written up by Belgium birder Peter Adriaens here:
>http://birdingfrontiers.com/2014/01/09/calls-of-thayers-kumliens-and-iceland-gulls/
>
>
>Good birding,
>
>
>Julian
> 
>Julian Hough
>New Haven, CT 06519
>www.naturescapeimages.wordpress.com
>
>
>
>
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Re: [nysbirds-l] Iceland gulls

[Phil Jeffrey]

To me it makes no more sense to dismiss hybridization amongst those two
species as a mechanism for primary darkening than it does to invoke it.
 Just because it's not proven doesn't mean the alternative is true either.
 It would be one thing if, say, glaucoides in Iceland (the country) were
darkening its primaries or Glaucous Gulls or even (American) Herring Gulls
were seen to do so, but I'm not aware of any such trend.  A Western birder
might find the idea that two similar gull species *not* hybridizing to be
alien to their experience, for example.

>From my POV it makes sense to attempt to normalize intra-(sub)species
variation by looking at that spread in Iceland glaucoides populations in,
say, Iceland itself.  While more or less anything can happen with gulls,
I'd be a lot less likely to find the "intrinsic variation" idea worthy of
Occam's Razor if the range of variation in the
bird-oft-referred-to-as-Kumlein's substantially exceeds that in the
glaucoides subspecies.

Or, more plainly put - point me to the preponderance of evidence that
hybridization is *not* going on in this form of Iceland Gull (or whatever
it is).

Phil




On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 12:29 PM, julian hough  wrote:

> Shai distilled down some common-sensical aspect of the complications
> surrounding Iceland Gulls and what our perceptions are about how solid
> these are as a taxon. As an exiled Brit, I grew up on nominate 
> glaucoidesIceland Gull and it often involved searching through these for a 
> vagrant
> kumlieni "Kumlien's" Iceland Gull.
> It is more a continuing bad-habit that I refer to them as Kumlien's Gull
> here since, as Shai points out, there really isn't that much of a need for
> separating them to sub-species level in the US, as perhaps there is in
> Europe where kumlieni shows up more regularly.
>
> Interestingly, adult iceland Gulls were scarce here in New England
> compared to the numbers of first-cycle birds so it was always cool to see
> an adult. The ones I have seen here in CT have all been mid-grey – to  pale
> grey pigmented and black-primaried individuals seem rather uncommon at this
> latitude. Not sure that as quantitative evidence it amounts to anything
> from a scientific aspect but I wonder what drives the range of pigmentation
>  in these birds…hormones, geography, actual hybridization?
>
> There seems to be a lot of talk – confusion – is perhaps more apt about
> what these birds are based on perpetuated myths about "hybrid swarms "of
> kumlieni or interbreeding populations of kumlieni x thayeri etc and as
> Shai points out it may not benefit us, in lieu of quantitative and
> qualitative scientific study, to continue thinking that black-primaries
> Iceland Gulls here in the US have "x" amounts of thayeri genes flowing
> through them and more whiter-primaried birds have perhaps a more
> glaucoides influence.
>
> As for separating adults from nominate glaucoides Iceland Gulls from
> Northern Europe, certain birds in Newfoundland seem to check the right
> boxes so with care the odd bird might be identifiable by sharp observers.
>
> Intrestingly, the long-calls of these white-winged gulls was recently
> studied and written up by Belgium birder Peter Adriaens here:
>
> http://birdingfrontiers.com/2014/01/09/calls-of-thayers-kumliens-and-iceland-gulls
> /
>
> Good birding,
>
> Julian
>
> Julian Hough
> New Haven, CT 06519
> www.naturescapeimages.wordpress.com
>
>
>   --
> *NYSbirds-L List Info:*
> Welcome and Basics 
> Rules and Information 
> Subscribe, Configuration and 
> Leave
> *Archives:*
> The Mail 
> Archive
> Surfbirds 
> BirdingOnThe.Net 
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[nysbirds-l] DEC's Mute Swan management plan

[Christina Wilkinson]

http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7076.html 

First they killed geese, then owls, now they want to do it to swans. 


When will this ever end? 


Christina 
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[nysbirds-l] Pnkfooted goose Riverhead

[Arie Gilbert]

Beeing seen now in field also with Tunda Swan and 1000canada geese

Here is a link to my current location: 
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=loc:40.96396,-72.699385

01/16/2014 


01/16/2014 @ 2:44 PM

Arie Gilbert 
No. Baylon NY
 
Sent from "Loretta IV" in the field
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[nysbirds-l] Iceland gulls

[julian hough]

Shai distilled down some common-sensical aspect of the complications 
surrounding Iceland Gulls and what our perceptions are about how solid these 
are as a taxon. As an exiled Brit, I grew up on nominate glaucoides Iceland 
Gull and it often involved searching through these for a vagrant kumlieni 
"Kumlien's" Iceland Gull.
It is more a continuing bad-habit that I refer to them as Kumlien's Gull here 
since, as Shai points out, there really isn't that much of a need for 
separating them to sub-species level in the US, as perhaps there is in Europe 
where kumlieni shows up more regularly.

Interestingly, adult iceland Gulls were scarce here in New England compared to 
the numbers of first-cycle birds so it was always cool to see an adult. The 
ones I have seen here in CT have all been mid-grey – to  pale grey pigmented 
and black-primaried individuals seem rather uncommon at this latitude. Not sure 
that as quantitative evidence it amounts to anything from a scientific aspect 
but I wonder what drives the range of pigmentation  in these birds…hormones, 
geography, actual hybridization? 

There seems to be a lot of talk – confusion – is perhaps more apt about what 
these birds are based on perpetuated myths about "hybrid swarms "of kumlieni or 
interbreeding populations of kumlieni x thayeri etc and as Shai points out it 
may not benefit us, in lieu of quantitative and qualitative scientific study, 
to continue thinking that black-primaries Iceland Gulls here in the US have "x" 
amounts of thayeri genes flowing through them and more whiter-primaried birds 
have perhaps a more glaucoides influence.

As for separating adults from nominate glaucoides Iceland Gulls from Northern 
Europe, certain birds in Newfoundland seem to check the right boxes so with 
care the odd bird might be identifiable by sharp observers.

Intrestingly, the long-calls of these white-winged gulls was recently studied 
and written up by Belgium birder Peter Adriaens here:
http://birdingfrontiers.com/2014/01/09/calls-of-thayers-kumliens-and-iceland-gulls/

Good birding,

Julian
 
Julian Hough
New Haven, CT 06519
www.naturescapeimages.wordpress.com
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[nysbirds-l] Brooklyn Peregrines

[Matthew Wills]

Just watched a pair of Peregrines fly from the steeple of St. Paul's at 
Court/Congress. The pair were perching on either side of the cross, and flew 
east down Bergen before turning left, or north. That's the direction of the 
scrape at the Brooklyn House of Detention on Atlantic. Love must be in the air. 

St. Paul's steeple is one of the highest structures south of downtown BK; it's 
a reliable raptor perch. 


Eyes on the sky,
Matthew

Backyard & Beyond
http://matthewwills.com

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RE: [nysbirds-l] About Iceland Gulls

[Shaibal Mitra]

Given that this conversation found me four times independently in one day, I 
think it's worth at least collecting some of the threads, if not measuring them 
or tying them together!

My perception is that the Iceland Gulls I see on Long Island and in coastal 
southern New England are very variable in terms of pigmentation (e.g., wingtip 
pattern and intensity and iris color) but not in other ways (e.g., size, 
structure, seasonality, habitat preference, and feeding habits). Even mantle 
color is close to uniform, ranging from just barely paler than American Herring 
Gull and Ring-bill to noticeably paler than these reference species.

When I say that they are relatively uniform and distinctive in terms of size, 
structure, seasonality, habitat preference, and feeding habits, it's important 
to calibrate this within the range of options occupied by large white-headed 
gulls as a group, all of which are incredibly similar overall and broadly 
overlapping in all the ecological variables. Thus, I'm not saying that Iceland 
Gulls never eat garbage like Glaucous Gulls, never eat ducks like Great 
Black-backed Gulls, never sit in parking lots like Herring Gulls, never dabble 
plankton like Ring-billed Gulls, or never hunt pelagic fish like Lesser 
Black-backed Gulls. Most of these species do most of these things from time to 
time, but each has its own distinctive niche around here, and my perception is 
that Iceland Gull's niche is just as distinctive as that of any of the other 
regular species.

When I say that large white-headed gulls are incredibly similar in overall size 
and structure, I mean to point out that the variation within species is very 
large relative to that among species. One way of illustrating this is to 
consider that basically all the possible combinations of basic size, mantle 
color, leg color, and eye color are occupied by at least one species, and that 
people have had a hard time deciding what to do when populations from different 
parts of the world show similar combinations: Kelp Gull was for a long time 
considered a subspecies of Lesser Black-backed Gull (!), Armenian Gull is 
perversely similar to California Gull, etc. Perhaps the most extreme and vexing 
example of this phenomenon involves American Herring Gull and European Herring 
Gull, which, although basically identical as adults, are apparently not closely 
related.

In view of all this, our Iceland Gulls seem very distinctive and stable to me, 
in every way but one (or two): wingtip pigmentation (and maybe iris 
pigmentation).

The reason that I don't call these birds "Kumlien's Gulls" is that to do so 
would be to imply that we regularly see or expect to see any non-kumlieni 
Iceland Gulls. I do not believe that nominate Iceland Gulls occur here 
regularly (an odd vagrant from time to time is possible but would not be 
identifiable), nor do I think that, among our Iceland Gulls, those with paler 
wingtips are more closely related to nominate birds, or that those with darker 
wingtips owe this to Thayer's or Herring or other ancestry. As described above, 
it is always possible that we could be tricked from time to time by some 
completely different species or hybrid combination that happens to line up with 
a similar character combination, but this should sort out under the weight of 
long-term evidence.

Because we have a series of carefully written books, we know not only that this 
variability in wingtip pigmentation has been around for more than a hundred 
years, but also that the pigmentation distribution has changed rather markedly 
over that time. Writing in 1923, Griscom clearly implies that the Iceland Gulls 
that he perceived as regular on Long Island had white wingtips. This is because 
he explicitly cites one specimen and one sight record of Kumlien's Gull, 
proving that observers were aware of and looking for the possibility of wingtip 
pigmentation. By 1964, Bull described a very complex situation which defied 
simple summary, but in which it is clear that Iceland Gull was perceived to 
have increased in overall frequency, and that both "white-winged" and 
"gray-winged" individuals were well represented.

Nowadays, it is clear to me that the white-winged end of the distribution is 
much scarcer than it was previously (although it is still encountered fairly 
regularly).

Thus, wingtip pigmentation in North American Iceland Gulls is and has been 
variable, and it has shifted toward the darker end over a century of 
observation. And why shouldn't it have done so?--characters evolve all the 
time. The notion that this shift has been a consequence of hybridization 
between white-winged, glaucoides-like birds and Thayer's Gulls, although widely 
accepted among birders, seems like special pleading to me, and much less 
plausible than the simple alternative of character evolution within a variable 
population.

This is because the frequency of a trait of hybrid origin is not expected to 
exceed the rate of 

[nysbirds-l] Biking for Birds rides into New York

[Angus Wilson]

New York Birders!

My name is Dorian Anderson, and I am happy to announce that Biking for
Birds, my 2014 bicycle big year project, will be rolling into New York some
time around January 19th or 20th. The basic idea is that I am doing a
nationwide big year in 2014 using only a bicycle. I am using the adventure
to raise money for bird conservation. Bird highlights of the first two
weeks in New England (yes, I survived the polar vortex, -20 temps, and 20"
of snow on a bike!) include black-headed gull, purple sandpiper,
thick-billed murre, dovekie, barrow's goldeneye, glaucous gull, iceland
gull, lesser black-backed gull, king eider, rough-legged hawk, eurasian
wigeon, snowy owl, short-eared owl, rusty blackbird, and barnacle
gooseall without a drop of gas! You can read all about the project at:

http://www.bikingforbirds.blogspot.com

Also, if anyone has a secret long-eared or saw-whet roost in the New York
City or Southern Connecticut areas, please let me know! I will be making a
few attempts at these birds in the next few days, but I would love to get a
bit more help.

I am also thinking about trying for the Jones Beach shrike. It would be
great to have some help finding it, so I'll keep people posted on how I
handle that bird.

Thanks for the time

Dorian Anderson 

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[nysbirds-l] Biking for Birds rides into New York

[Angus Wilson]

New York Birders!

My name is Dorian Anderson, and I am happy to announce that Biking for
Birds, my 2014 bicycle big year project, will be rolling into New York some
time around January 19th or 20th. The basic idea is that I am doing a
nationwide big year in 2014 using only a bicycle. I am using the adventure
to raise money for bird conservation. Bird highlights of the first two
weeks in New England (yes, I survived the polar vortex, -20 temps, and 20
of snow on a bike!) include black-headed gull, purple sandpiper,
thick-billed murre, dovekie, barrow's goldeneye, glaucous gull, iceland
gull, lesser black-backed gull, king eider, rough-legged hawk, eurasian
wigeon, snowy owl, short-eared owl, rusty blackbird, and barnacle
gooseall without a drop of gas! You can read all about the project at:

http://www.bikingforbirds.blogspot.com

Also, if anyone has a secret long-eared or saw-whet roost in the New York
City or Southern Connecticut areas, please let me know! I will be making a
few attempts at these birds in the next few days, but I would love to get a
bit more help.

I am also thinking about trying for the Jones Beach shrike. It would be
great to have some help finding it, so I'll keep people posted on how I
handle that bird.

Thanks for the time

Dorian Anderson bikingforbirds [at ] gmail.com

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RE: [nysbirds-l] About Iceland Gulls

[Shaibal Mitra]

Given that this conversation found me four times independently in one day, I 
think it's worth at least collecting some of the threads, if not measuring them 
or tying them together!

My perception is that the Iceland Gulls I see on Long Island and in coastal 
southern New England are very variable in terms of pigmentation (e.g., wingtip 
pattern and intensity and iris color) but not in other ways (e.g., size, 
structure, seasonality, habitat preference, and feeding habits). Even mantle 
color is close to uniform, ranging from just barely paler than American Herring 
Gull and Ring-bill to noticeably paler than these reference species.

When I say that they are relatively uniform and distinctive in terms of size, 
structure, seasonality, habitat preference, and feeding habits, it's important 
to calibrate this within the range of options occupied by large white-headed 
gulls as a group, all of which are incredibly similar overall and broadly 
overlapping in all the ecological variables. Thus, I'm not saying that Iceland 
Gulls never eat garbage like Glaucous Gulls, never eat ducks like Great 
Black-backed Gulls, never sit in parking lots like Herring Gulls, never dabble 
plankton like Ring-billed Gulls, or never hunt pelagic fish like Lesser 
Black-backed Gulls. Most of these species do most of these things from time to 
time, but each has its own distinctive niche around here, and my perception is 
that Iceland Gull's niche is just as distinctive as that of any of the other 
regular species.

When I say that large white-headed gulls are incredibly similar in overall size 
and structure, I mean to point out that the variation within species is very 
large relative to that among species. One way of illustrating this is to 
consider that basically all the possible combinations of basic size, mantle 
color, leg color, and eye color are occupied by at least one species, and that 
people have had a hard time deciding what to do when populations from different 
parts of the world show similar combinations: Kelp Gull was for a long time 
considered a subspecies of Lesser Black-backed Gull (!), Armenian Gull is 
perversely similar to California Gull, etc. Perhaps the most extreme and vexing 
example of this phenomenon involves American Herring Gull and European Herring 
Gull, which, although basically identical as adults, are apparently not closely 
related.

In view of all this, our Iceland Gulls seem very distinctive and stable to me, 
in every way but one (or two): wingtip pigmentation (and maybe iris 
pigmentation).

The reason that I don't call these birds Kumlien's Gulls is that to do so 
would be to imply that we regularly see or expect to see any non-kumlieni 
Iceland Gulls. I do not believe that nominate Iceland Gulls occur here 
regularly (an odd vagrant from time to time is possible but would not be 
identifiable), nor do I think that, among our Iceland Gulls, those with paler 
wingtips are more closely related to nominate birds, or that those with darker 
wingtips owe this to Thayer's or Herring or other ancestry. As described above, 
it is always possible that we could be tricked from time to time by some 
completely different species or hybrid combination that happens to line up with 
a similar character combination, but this should sort out under the weight of 
long-term evidence.

Because we have a series of carefully written books, we know not only that this 
variability in wingtip pigmentation has been around for more than a hundred 
years, but also that the pigmentation distribution has changed rather markedly 
over that time. Writing in 1923, Griscom clearly implies that the Iceland Gulls 
that he perceived as regular on Long Island had white wingtips. This is because 
he explicitly cites one specimen and one sight record of Kumlien's Gull, 
proving that observers were aware of and looking for the possibility of wingtip 
pigmentation. By 1964, Bull described a very complex situation which defied 
simple summary, but in which it is clear that Iceland Gull was perceived to 
have increased in overall frequency, and that both white-winged and 
gray-winged individuals were well represented.

Nowadays, it is clear to me that the white-winged end of the distribution is 
much scarcer than it was previously (although it is still encountered fairly 
regularly).

Thus, wingtip pigmentation in North American Iceland Gulls is and has been 
variable, and it has shifted toward the darker end over a century of 
observation. And why shouldn't it have done so?--characters evolve all the 
time. The notion that this shift has been a consequence of hybridization 
between white-winged, glaucoides-like birds and Thayer's Gulls, although widely 
accepted among birders, seems like special pleading to me, and much less 
plausible than the simple alternative of character evolution within a variable 
population.

This is because the frequency of a trait of hybrid origin is not expected to 
exceed the rate of 

[nysbirds-l] Brooklyn Peregrines

[Matthew Wills]

Just watched a pair of Peregrines fly from the steeple of St. Paul's at 
Court/Congress. The pair were perching on either side of the cross, and flew 
east down Bergen before turning left, or north. That's the direction of the 
scrape at the Brooklyn House of Detention on Atlantic. Love must be in the air. 

St. Paul's steeple is one of the highest structures south of downtown BK; it's 
a reliable raptor perch. 


Eyes on the sky,
Matthew

Backyard  Beyond
http://matthewwills.com

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[nysbirds-l] Iceland gulls

[julian hough]

Shai distilled down some common-sensical aspect of the complications 
surrounding Iceland Gulls and what our perceptions are about how solid these 
are as a taxon. As an exiled Brit, I grew up on nominate glaucoides Iceland 
Gull and it often involved searching through these for a vagrant kumlieni 
Kumlien's Iceland Gull.
It is more a continuing bad-habit that I refer to them as Kumlien's Gull here 
since, as Shai points out, there really isn't that much of a need for 
separating them to sub-species level in the US, as perhaps there is in Europe 
where kumlieni shows up more regularly.

Interestingly, adult iceland Gulls were scarce here in New England compared to 
the numbers of first-cycle birds so it was always cool to see an adult. The 
ones I have seen here in CT have all been mid-grey – to  pale grey pigmented 
and black-primaried individuals seem rather uncommon at this latitude. Not sure 
that as quantitative evidence it amounts to anything from a scientific aspect 
but I wonder what drives the range of pigmentation  in these birds…hormones, 
geography, actual hybridization? 

There seems to be a lot of talk – confusion – is perhaps more apt about what 
these birds are based on perpetuated myths about hybrid swarms of kumlieni or 
interbreeding populations of kumlieni x thayeri etc and as Shai points out it 
may not benefit us, in lieu of quantitative and qualitative scientific study, 
to continue thinking that black-primaries Iceland Gulls here in the US have x 
amounts of thayeri genes flowing through them and more whiter-primaried birds 
have perhaps a more glaucoides influence.

As for separating adults from nominate glaucoides Iceland Gulls from Northern 
Europe, certain birds in Newfoundland seem to check the right boxes so with 
care the odd bird might be identifiable by sharp observers.

Intrestingly, the long-calls of these white-winged gulls was recently studied 
and written up by Belgium birder Peter Adriaens here:
http://birdingfrontiers.com/2014/01/09/calls-of-thayers-kumliens-and-iceland-gulls/

Good birding,

Julian
 
Julian Hough
New Haven, CT 06519
www.naturescapeimages.wordpress.com
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[nysbirds-l] Pnkfooted goose Riverhead

[Arie Gilbert]

Beeing seen now in field also with Tunda Swan and 1000canada geese

Here is a link to my current location: 
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=loc:40.96396,-72.699385

01/16/2014 


01/16/2014 @ 2:44 PM

Arie Gilbert 
No. Baylon NY
 
Sent from Loretta IV in the field
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[nysbirds-l] DEC's Mute Swan management plan

[Christina Wilkinson]

http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7076.html 

First they killed geese, then owls, now they want to do it to swans. 


When will this ever end? 


Christina 
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Re: [nysbirds-l] Iceland gulls

[Phil Jeffrey]

To me it makes no more sense to dismiss hybridization amongst those two
species as a mechanism for primary darkening than it does to invoke it.
 Just because it's not proven doesn't mean the alternative is true either.
 It would be one thing if, say, glaucoides in Iceland (the country) were
darkening its primaries or Glaucous Gulls or even (American) Herring Gulls
were seen to do so, but I'm not aware of any such trend.  A Western birder
might find the idea that two similar gull species *not* hybridizing to be
alien to their experience, for example.

From my POV it makes sense to attempt to normalize intra-(sub)species
variation by looking at that spread in Iceland glaucoides populations in,
say, Iceland itself.  While more or less anything can happen with gulls,
I'd be a lot less likely to find the intrinsic variation idea worthy of
Occam's Razor if the range of variation in the
bird-oft-referred-to-as-Kumlein's substantially exceeds that in the
glaucoides subspecies.

Or, more plainly put - point me to the preponderance of evidence that
hybridization is *not* going on in this form of Iceland Gull (or whatever
it is).

Phil




On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 12:29 PM, julian hough jrhou...@snet.net wrote:

 Shai distilled down some common-sensical aspect of the complications
 surrounding Iceland Gulls and what our perceptions are about how solid
 these are as a taxon. As an exiled Brit, I grew up on nominate 
 glaucoidesIceland Gull and it often involved searching through these for a 
 vagrant
 kumlieni Kumlien's Iceland Gull.
 It is more a continuing bad-habit that I refer to them as Kumlien's Gull
 here since, as Shai points out, there really isn't that much of a need for
 separating them to sub-species level in the US, as perhaps there is in
 Europe where kumlieni shows up more regularly.

 Interestingly, adult iceland Gulls were scarce here in New England
 compared to the numbers of first-cycle birds so it was always cool to see
 an adult. The ones I have seen here in CT have all been mid-grey – to  pale
 grey pigmented and black-primaried individuals seem rather uncommon at this
 latitude. Not sure that as quantitative evidence it amounts to anything
 from a scientific aspect but I wonder what drives the range of pigmentation
  in these birds…hormones, geography, actual hybridization?

 There seems to be a lot of talk – confusion – is perhaps more apt about
 what these birds are based on perpetuated myths about hybrid swarms of
 kumlieni or interbreeding populations of kumlieni x thayeri etc and as
 Shai points out it may not benefit us, in lieu of quantitative and
 qualitative scientific study, to continue thinking that black-primaries
 Iceland Gulls here in the US have x amounts of thayeri genes flowing
 through them and more whiter-primaried birds have perhaps a more
 glaucoides influence.

 As for separating adults from nominate glaucoides Iceland Gulls from
 Northern Europe, certain birds in Newfoundland seem to check the right
 boxes so with care the odd bird might be identifiable by sharp observers.

 Intrestingly, the long-calls of these white-winged gulls was recently
 studied and written up by Belgium birder Peter Adriaens here:

 http://birdingfrontiers.com/2014/01/09/calls-of-thayers-kumliens-and-iceland-gulls
 /

 Good birding,

 Julian

 Julian Hough
 New Haven, CT 06519
 www.naturescapeimages.wordpress.com


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Fwd: [nysbirds-l] Pnkfooted goose Riverhead

[Derek Rogers]

The Pink-footed Goose just took off from the field shown in Arie's coordinates. 
It headed south with a sub flock of 9 Canada Geese.

Best,
Derek Rogers
Sayville 


Begin forwarded message:

 From: Arie Gilbert ariegilb...@optonline.net
 Date: January 16, 2014 at 2:44:24 PM EST
 To: NYSBIRDS-L@cornell edu NYSbirds-L@cornell.edu
 Subject: [nysbirds-l] Pnkfooted goose Riverhead
 Reply-To: Arie Gilbert ariegilb...@optonline.net
 
 
 Beeing seen now in field also with Tunda Swan and 1000canada geese
 
 Here is a link to my current location: 
 http://maps.google.com/maps?q=loc:40.96396,-72.699385
 
 01/16/2014 
 
 
 01/16/2014 @ 2:44 PM
 
 Arie Gilbert 
 No. Baylon NY
  
 Sent from Loretta IV in the field
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[nysbirds-l] Pink-footed Goose

[Tim Dunn]

Pink footed goose found by Arie Gilbert in field east of Roanoke Ave in 
Riverhead  was present with flock of Canada's until 4:05pm, when it flew 
towards the south with two Canada's. 

Birds are flying out now. 

Thanks,
Tim Dunn
Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [nysbirds-l] Iceland gulls

[Andrew Baksh]

Very fascinating discussion and a welcome respite from the usual reports.
The Iceland Gull complex on the taxonomy of Thayer's, Kumlien’s and
Iceland Gull is a much discussed topic that I don't see ending any time
soon.

The argument for hybridization between Iceland (glaucoides) and Thayer's
have been made in the past but as of yet *(as far as I have read)* no
acceptable research has proven this to be true, which supports the
argument made by Shai.  R.R. Snell refuted the work presented by N.G. Smith
on hybridization of Iceland and Thayer's and I don't believe Snell's work
has ever been disputed*.  *To muddy things a bit more, we *(most of
us)*assume that Thayer's is a full species of its own.  What if it is
not and
is just a subspecies of Iceland Gull?

As Julian pointed out, there appears to be more confusion based on myths
rather than on quantitative and qualitative scientific study, on what
really accounts for the paler primary candidates of Iceland Gull vs the
darker primary types.  Until any concrete evidence is provided that there
is a difference, it is probably just safe to refer to them all as just
Iceland Gulls.  Out of curiosity, was there any vocalization studies ever
done on paler primary Iceland Gulls vs the darker primary types?  It would
be interesting to know if the calls leaned one way or another *(nominate
Iceland or Thayer's)* based on primary pigmentation.  I not sure if it will
prove anything but it would be interesting to know.

Going back to what started this discussion, Steve's Gull from the 12th,
could very well be the same individual I and others saw and photographed
back in January 2013 at the same Jones Beach West End II location *(Shai's
photo on Steve's website goes back as far as 2006).*  The dark primaries on
the January 2013 bird also caused some debate for a possible Thayer's but
in the end it was ruled a Kumlien's type Iceland.  Photos from that bird
are online here -
http://birdingdude.blogspot.com/2013/01/new-years-day-long-island-and-bronx.html

Very enjoyable discussion which encouraged me to do more reading up on the
topic, so thank you Steve, Shai, Mike, Phil and Julian. We need more
teaching moments like these on the list serves.

Cheers!

Andrew

Shaibal Mitra 
viahttp://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer.py?hl=enanswer=1311182ctx=mail
 list.cornell.edu

9:35 AM (6 hours ago)

to nysbirds-l

Given that this conversation found me four times independently in one day,
I think it's worth at least collecting some of the threads, if not
measuring them or tying them together!



My perception is that the Iceland Gulls I see on Long Island and in coastal
southern New England are very variable in terms of pigmentation (e.g.,
wingtip pattern and intensity and iris color) but not in other ways (e.g.,
size, structure, seasonality, habitat preference, and feeding habits). Even
mantle color is close to uniform, ranging from just barely paler than
American Herring Gull and Ring-bill to noticeably paler than these
reference species.



When I say that they are relatively uniform and distinctive in terms
of size, structure, seasonality, habitat preference, and feeding habits,
it's important to calibrate this within the range of options occupied by
large white-headed gulls as a group, all of which are incredibly similar
overall and broadly overlapping in all the ecological variables. Thus, I'm
not saying that Iceland Gulls never eat garbage like Glaucous Gulls, never
eat ducks like Great Black-backed Gulls, never sit in parking lots like
Herring Gulls, never dabble plankton like Ring-billed Gulls, or never hunt
pelagic fish like Lesser Black-backed Gulls. Most of these species do most
of these things from time to time, but each has its own distinctive niche
around here, and my perception is that Iceland Gull's niche is just as
distinctive as that of any of the other regular species.



When I say that large white-headed gulls are incredibly similar in overall
size and structure, I mean to point out that the variation within species
is very large relative to that among species. One way of illustrating this
is to consider that basically all the possible combinations of basic size,
mantle color, leg color, and eye color are occupied by at least one
species, and that people have had a hard time deciding what to do when
populations from different parts of the world show similar combinations:
Kelp Gull was for a long time considered a subspecies of Lesser
Black-backed Gull (!), Armenian Gull is perversely similar to California
Gull, etc. Perhaps the most extreme and vexing example of this phenomenon
involves American Herring Gull and European Herring Gull, which, although
basically identical as adults, are apparently not closely related.



In view of all this, our Iceland Gulls seem very distinctive and stable to
me, in every way but one (or two): wingtip pigmentation (and maybe iris
pigmentation).



The reason that I don't call these birds Kumlien's Gulls is that to do so
would be 

[nysbirds-l] Black-headed Gull in Queens

[Steve Walter]

Stephane Perrault found a BLACK-HEADED GULL on Little Neck Bay, Queens about
3:00 this afternoon. This was his report to the local group:

 

Currently viewed 30 yards from walkway. First open space N of N boulevard.

 

Park At alley pond environmental center. Take bicycle path N along
cross-island parkway (east side of pkway). Head N past the saltmarsh, past
the train tracks (under viaduct), past the row of phragmites, past the row
of trees, first open space. On  beach at receding tide. Not that far to
walk.

 

 

By the time I got there, the tide was lower and gulls were stretched out
over a long amount of shoreline, all the way to the mouth of Alley Creek. I
did not see it. I'll offer another recommendation if you want to look for
it. You can park by Crocheron Pond, at the end of 35th Avenue and walk over
the overpass. Walk south. From this approach, you can begin looking at birds
immediately, and it might be a shorter walk to the spot Stephane indicated.
If the tide is too high for gulls on the shoreline, there are a couple of
other places worth a look. Oakland Lake always has Ring-billed Gulls and the
Bayside Marina should have roosting gulls. I actually looked there
yesterday, not knowing a Black-headed was in the area. I had stopped off
there to scan for the Fort Totten Snowy Owl. It was indeed visible on a
light pole on the fort, a half mile away. Credit to Eric Miller for tipping
me off on that (he saw it while driving on the Cross Island). It seems that
you can drive into the fort these days, if you want  a closer look. The
Snowy has been sitting on light poles, roofs, and chimneys (toward the
southwest part of the fort), so not really susceptible to disturbance - so
no harm divulging its itinerary. Stephane, in fact, found the Black-headed
on his way back from the Snowy. Sort of that Patagonia thing.

 

Tides for the next couple of days:

DayHigh  Tide  Height   SunriseMoon  Time  % Moon

   /Low  TimeFeetSunsetVisible

 

F   17 High  12:04 AM 7.1   7:16 AM Set  7:42 AM  99

17  Low   6:05 AM 0.2   4:54 PMRise  6:40 PM

17 High  11:57 AM 7.4

17  Low   6:37 PM-0.2

 

Sa  18 High  12:24 AM 7.1   7:16 AM Set  8:13 AM  97

18  Low   6:14 AM 0.1   4:56 PMRise  7:36 PM

18 High  12:12 PM 7.3

18  Low   6:39 PM-0.2

 

 

Steve Walter

Bayside, NY

 

 


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RE: [nysbirds-l] DEC's Mute Swan management plan

[Paul R Sweet]

Dear Christina

While Mute Swans are indeed spectacular birds and it is not their fault that 
they are here, they are nevertheless an invasive, non-native species and 
detrimental to native wildlife. A quick Google search will find many examples 
of problems caused to native avifauna and habitat, for example from Michigan-

Mute swans are one of the world's most aggressive waterfowl species, especially 
during nesting and brood-rearing. Mute swans exhibit aggression toward other 
waterfowl and can displace native waterfowl from their nesting and feeding 
areas by attacking, injuring and even killing other birds.

In Michigan, of particular concern are native breeding waterfowl and water 
birds such as trumpeter swans (state threatened), Canada geese, ducks, common 
loons (state threatened), and black terns (state special concern).

The trumpeter swan is native to Michigan, and is on our state's threatened 
species list. It has been on the road to recovery; however, the increasing 
presence of the invasive mute swan is threatening the breeding success of this 
native bird. To ensure the protection of the trumpeter swan, the mute swan 
population must be drastically reduced.

Mute swan displacement and aggression toward native wildlife occurs frequently 
throughout North America. For example, the New York State Department of 
Environmental Conservation reported that three pairs of captive mute swans 
killed at least 50 ducks and geese in a zoo. The Maryland Department of Natural 
Resources has reported records of mute swans killing mallard ducklings, Canada 
goose goslings and cygnets of other mute swans. Not just waterfowl species are 
at risk. For example, a large molting flock of Maryland mute swans caused a 
colony of least terns and black skimmers to abandon their nesting colony by 
trampling nests containing eggs and chicks. These swans also displaced nesting 
Forster's and common terns.

Respectfully, Paul Sweet

Paul Sweet
Collection Manager
Department of Ornithology
American Museum of Natural History
Central Park West at 79th Street
New York, NY 10024

Tel: 212 769 5780
Cell: 718 757 5941

From: bounce-111943821-11471...@list.cornell.edu 
[mailto:bounce-111943821-11471...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Christina 
Wilkinson
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2014 3:29 PM
To: nysbirds-l@cornell.edu
Subject: [nysbirds-l] DEC's Mute Swan management plan

http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7076.html

First they killed geese, then owls, now they want to do it to swans.

When will this ever end?

Christina
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Re: [nysbirds-l] DEC's Mute Swan management plan

[Angus Wilson]

This seems like a very ambitious (read: challenging) endeavor given the
large numbers of Mute Swans that we now have in NYS, especially in coastal
areas were they occur just about everywhere (fresh and brackish habitats).
This is compounded by the fact that neighboring states and provinces also
have large numbers of birds, which are likely to quickly repopulate areas
that are cleared. Honestly I think they are planning to close the barn door
after the swan has left but as Paul Sweet notes there are legitimate
reasons for concern on behalf of native flora and fauna.

Does anyone know if other state/provinces are planning similar projects? A
concerted effort across the northeast would seem a minimal requirement for
long-term success.

Angus Wilson
New York City, NY

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Re: [nysbirds-l] About Iceland Gulls

[Peter Morris]

Hi all, 

Sadly, I am not nearly well read enough on the subject of Iceland/Thayer's Gull 
but I am thoroughly enjoying reading the thoughts of others.

Is there any evidence to suggest that the variation in wingtip pigmentation is 
clinal throughout the breeding range of 'Kumlien's Gull'? 

With regards to the question of vocalization, the following link has some 
interesting thoughts although not specifically relating to darker vs. paler 
winged Iceland Gulls.

http://birdingfrontiers.com/2014/01/09/calls-of-thayers-kumliens-and-iceland-gulls/


All the best,

Pete




On Thursday, January 16, 2014 9:36 AM, Shaibal Mitra 
shaibal.mi...@csi.cuny.edu wrote:
 
Given that this conversation found me four times independently in one day, I 
think it's worth at least collecting some of the threads, if not measuring them 
or tying them together!
 
My perception is that the Iceland Gulls I see on Long Island and in coastal 
southern New England are very variable in terms of pigmentation (e.g., wingtip 
pattern and intensity and iris color) but not in other ways (e.g., size, 
structure, seasonality, habitat preference, and feeding habits). Even mantle 
color is close to uniform, ranging from just barely paler than American Herring 
Gull and Ring-bill to noticeably paler than these reference species.
 
When I say that they are relatively uniform and distinctive in terms of size, 
structure, seasonality, habitat preference, and feeding habits, it's important 
to calibrate this within the range of options occupied by large white-headed 
gulls as a group, all of which are incredibly similar overall and broadly 
overlapping in all the ecological variables. Thus, I'm not saying that Iceland 
Gulls never eat garbage like Glaucous Gulls, never eat ducks like Great 
Black-backed Gulls, never sit in parking lots like Herring Gulls, never dabble 
plankton like Ring-billed Gulls, or never hunt pelagic fish like Lesser 
Black-backed Gulls. Most of these species do most of these things from time to 
time, but each has its own distinctive niche around here, and my perception is 
that Iceland Gull's niche is just as distinctive as that of any of the other 
regular species.
 
When I say that large white-headed gulls are incredibly similar in overall size 
and structure, I mean to point out that the variation within species is very 
large relative to that among species. One way of illustrating this is to 
consider that basically all the possible combinations of basic size, mantle 
color, leg color, and eye color are occupied by at least one species, and that 
people have had a hard time deciding what to do when populations from different 
parts of the world show similar combinations: Kelp Gull was for a long time 
considered a subspecies of Lesser Black-backed Gull (!), Armenian Gull is 
perversely similar to California Gull, etc. Perhaps the most extreme and vexing 
example of this phenomenon involves American Herring Gull and European Herring 
Gull, which, although basically identical as adults, are apparently not closely 
related.
 
In view of all this, our Iceland Gulls seem very distinctive and stable to me, 
in every way but one (or two): wingtip pigmentation (and maybe iris 
pigmentation).
 
The reason that I don't call these birds Kumlien's Gulls is that to do so 
would be to imply that we regularly see or expect to see any non-kumlieni 
Iceland Gulls. I do not believe that nominate Iceland Gulls occur here 
regularly (an odd vagrant from time to time is possible but would not be 
identifiable), nor do I think that, among our Iceland Gulls, those with paler 
wingtips are more closely related to nominate birds, or that those with darker 
wingtips owe this to Thayer's or Herring or other ancestry. As described above, 
it is always possible that we could be tricked from time to time by some 
completely different species or hybrid combination that happens to line up with 
a similar character combination, but this should sort out under the weight of 
long-term evidence.
 
Because we have a series of carefully written books, we know not only that this 
variability in wingtip pigmentation has been around for more than a hundred 
years, but also that the pigmentation distribution has changed rather markedly 
over that time. Writing in 1923, Griscom clearly implies that the Iceland Gulls 
that he perceived as regular on Long Island had white wingtips. This is because 
he explicitly cites one specimen and one sight record of Kumlien's Gull, 
proving that observers were aware of and looking for the possibility of wingtip 
pigmentation. By 1964, Bull described a very complex situation which defied 
simple summary, but in which it is clear that Iceland Gull was perceived to 
have increased in overall frequency, and that both white-winged and 
gray-winged individuals were well represented.
 
Nowadays, it is clear to me that the white-winged end of the distribution is 
much scarcer than it was previously (although it is still encountered 

[nysbirds-l] RBA Buffalo Bird Report 16 Jan 2014

[David Suggs]

- RBA
* New York
* Buffalo
* 01/16/2014
* NYBU1401.16
- Birds mentioned

  ---
  Please submit reports to
  dsu...@buffaloornithologicalsociety.org
  ---

  TUFTED DUCK [January 9 only]
  EVENING GROSBEAK
  KING EIDER
  BARROW'S GOLDENEYE
  Pied-billed Grebe
  Horned Grebe
  D.-crest. Cormorant
  Great Blue Heron
  Bl.-cr. Night-Heron
  Wood Duck
  Ring-necked Duck
  Greater Scaup
  Black Scoter
  Surf Scoter
  White-winged Scoter
  Hooded Merganser
  Common Merganser
  Ruddy Duck
  Bald Eagle
  Red-shouldered Hawk
  American Coot
  Snowy Owl
  Short-eared Owl
  Northern Flicker
  Pileated Woodpecker
  Horned Lark
  Common Raven
  American Robin
  Lapland Longspur

- Transcript
  Hotline: Buffalo Bird Report at the Buffalo Museum of Science
  Date: 01/16/2014
  Number:   716-896-1271
  To Report:Same
  Compiler: David F. Suggs
  Coverage: Western New York and adjacent Ontario
  Website:  www.BuffaloOrnithologicalSociety.org

  Thursday, January 16, 2014

  The Buffalo Bird Report is a service provided by your
  Buffalo Museum of Science and the Buffalo Ornithological
  Society. To contact the Science Museum, call 896-5200. Press
  the pound key to report sightings before the end of this
  report.

  Reports received January 9 through January 16 from the
  Niagara Frontier Region.

  The female TUFTED DUCK on the Niagara River off the Bird
  Island Pier in Buffalo has only been reported on January 9.
  The TUFTED DUCK was among abundant waterfowl, including a
  flock of 6000 GREATER SCAUP, between the Peace Bridge and
  the Lake Erie iceboom.

  Downriver of the Peace Bridge, an immature male KING EIDER
  has been lingering on the Fort Erie shoreline, near Nichols
  Marina. BARROW'S GOLDENEYE wintering again on the boundary
  of the region at Point Breeze, at Oak Orchard Creek and Lake
  Ontario, in Orleans County.

  Yes - SNOWY OWLS still across the region. In in Lake Ontario
  Plains, two SNOWY OWLS in the parking lot at Lakeside Beach
  State Park,  and single SNOWY OWLS  at Quaker and Lake Roads
  in Somerset and the Niagara-Orleans Countyline. In Genesee
  County - SNOWY OWL for two weeks at Chaddock and Molasses
  Hill Roads in Bethany. And SNOWY OWLS at their favored airports
  in Batavia, Buffalo, Dunkirk and Niagara Falls.

  January 10, an EVENING GROSBEAK at a feeder near Lake
  Ontario off Sunset Beach Parkway in Orleans County. Also,
  two PILEATED WOODPECKERS have been regulars at nearby
  Lakeside Beach State Park.

  Around Grand Island and the upper Niagara River islands -
  SURF SCOTER and 12 RING-NECKED DUCKS at Buckhorn Island
  State Park. Two WHITE-WINGED SCOTERS among COMMON MERGANSERS
  at Motor Island. And, over 50 GREAT BLUE HERONS between
  Motor and Strawberry Islands. On the Little River at
  Tonawanda Island in North Tonawanda, PIED-BILLED GREBE, WOOD
  DUCK and 24 HOODED MERGANSERS.

  From Chautauqua County, a pair of BALD EAGLES at a nest on
  Hanover Road between Route 39 and Hopper Roads, near the
  Silver Creek Reservoir. And at Dunkirk Harbor, 288 AMERICAN
  COOTS plus BLACK SCOTER, WHITE-WINGED SCOTER, RUDDY DUCK,
  HORNED GREBE, D.-CREST. CORMORANT, 4 BALD EAGLES and a BL.-
  CR. NIGHT-HERON.

  Other reports this week - SHORT-EARED OWLS continue on
  Posson Road in Shelby, north of the Iroquois Refuge. In the
  Town of Evans, RED-SHOULDERED HAWK at Route 5 by Lake Erie
  Middle School. A pair of COMMON RAVENS harassing RED-TAILED
  HAWKS at the power plant on River Road by the Niagara River
  in Tonawanda. Four NORTHERN FLICKERS at Krull Park in
  Olcott. LAPLAND LONGSPURS and HORNED LARKS on Niagara-
  Orleans Countyline Road. And, wintering AMERICAN ROBINS in
  North Boston and on Grand Island.

  The Bird Report will be updated Thursday evening, January
  23. Please call in your sightings by noon Thursday. You may
  report sightings after the tone. Thank you for calling and
  reporting.

- End Transcript

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[nysbirds-l] Midtown Birding

[Alan Drogin]

Winter birding at Bryant Park is an affair of attrition, the contradictory 
activity of not finding, is it really gone?  For those hardy species willing to 
stay, it is not changes in weather but sustenance that is the major decider, 
although the two are generally linked.  The last surviving tiny flowers around 
the ice skating rink briefly attracted an unidentified hummingbird the weekend 
before Thanksgiving but the following night’s cold snap killed them off along 
with the chances of catching it again Monday morning before work.

The first major snow (where it covers the ground), is always a big demarcation. 
 By the first major snow storm of December 10th, I no longer could find the 
Ovenbird of the northwest corner, the Hermit Thrush around the garden shed, or 
the bold male Common Yellowthroat that was begging along 5th Avenue.

The unusually large number of Swamp Sparrows that arrived in the fall slowly 
declined in number, but the last of them toughed out the single digits with the 
other sparrows along the north side of the rink with a lone harried-looking 
Catbird.  But once the holiday food vendors folded by the end of the first week 
in January, they and the Catbird were gone.  Now all that is left are House, 
Common White-throated, and a few Song Sparrows.

What I keep checking for, and continue to find with great cheer, is a lone 
female Eastern Towhee by the folded chairs south of the library entrance.

Happy Birding,
Alan Drogin



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