Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)

[WilliamWatsonSr]

In Western New York Cinnamon Teal is accidental.  About twenty years  ago 
there was a report of about half a dozen at the Iroquois NWR, so I went to  
see these extraordinarily rare life birds. Before I got there they were all 
shot  by hunters.  At the time Art Clark requested one for the Buffalo 
Science  Museum collection.  It could not be done as none of the hunters were  
willing to donate a Cinnamon Teal. Why if birds are illegally shot are the 
birds  the sole property of the hunter that shot them.  Why are the hunters not 
 
fined. Why are they allowed to keep the bird.  If a hunter shoots a newly  
discovered last Ivory-billed Woodpecker (thinking is was a Mallard Duck) 
does  this mean he free sell this rare specimen for millions of dollars  
because he made a stupid mistake???   This makes no sense to  me...   I'm I 
missing something?  
 
Bill Watson
 
 
In a message dated 3/21/2014 2:06:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
patr...@qprocorp.com writes:

This is  just not true.  There have been instances of Whooping Cranes being 
killed  by Sandhill Crane hunters and Snow Goose hunters.  Thinking that 
ALL  hunters know EXACTLY what species they are shooting at when they pull the 
 trigger is simply not true.  There is plenty of history to refute your  
thought.
Sorry

-Original Message-
From:  bounce-113466175-13703...@list.cornell.edu  
[mailto:bounce-113466175-13703...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Voisine,  
Matthew NAN02
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 11:38 AM
To: Glenn Wilson;  
Cc: Larry Federman; Will Raup; Stella Miller;  NYSBIRDS-L; Voisine, Matthew 
NAN02
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l]  Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats:  NONE

I think this subject is getting out of control but my experience  is 
hunters know EXACTLY what the species is that they are hunting. The  
conversation 
is beginning to criticize hunters unduly.

Whether they  know about something that they are not hunting is another 
story and not really  relevant

Matthew Voisine
Biologist
USACE- NY District
26  Federal Plaza
Room 2151
NY, NY 10278
917.790.8718  voice
702.271.0496 mobile
212.264.0961  fax
matthew.vois...@usace.army.mil


-Original  Message-
From: Glenn Wilson [mailto:wil...@stny.rr.com]
Sent:  Friday, 21 March, 2014 11:32
To: 
Cc: Larry  Federman; Voisine, Matthew NAN02; Will Raup; Stella Miller;  
NYSBIRDS-L
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release  (UNCLASSIFIED)

I'm curious how many hunters actually know the  difference between a crow 
(fish of American) and starling, red-winged BB,  Rusty BB, and Grackles. I'd 
be surprised if even 25% of the hunters even try  yo differentiate these 
"black" birds. 


Glenn Wilson
Endicott,  NY
www.WilsonsWarbler.com

On Mar 21, 2014, at 11:09 AM,   wrote:


Hi everyone:

While the  state legislation proposed to stop these kind of shooting events 
is important,  laudable and should be strongly supported by the NY 
conservation community, it  if was to be signed into law by Governor Cuomoto 
tomorrow, individual hunters  could still go out each and every day for seven 
months (Sept 1-March 31 as the  chart detaling the NYSDEC regs. provided by 
Lynne 
Hertzog illustrates)   and shoot as many crows as they desire. 

Thus, if we want to provide  crows with complete protection we need to have 
state legislation introduced to  have American and Fish Crows classified as 
songbirds and to close the hunting  season for them or some other alternate 
approach.. 

John Turner  



- Original Message -
From: Larry Federman
Date:  Friday, March 21, 2014 9:49 am
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l]  Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)
To: "Voisine, Matthew NAN02" , Will Raup ,  Stella Miller , NYSBIRDS-L
Cc: "Voisine, Matthew NAN02" 

>  Thanks, Matthew,
> It's moot at this point since the Press Release was  changed, but the 
> shoot is just outside the NYC watershed.
>  
> Larry Federman
> President, Northern Catskills Audubon
>  
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Voisine, Matthew  NAN02
> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 2:18 PM
> To: Will Raup ;  Stella Miller ; NYSBIRDS-L
> Cc: Voisine, Matthew NAN02
> Subject:  RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)
> 
>  Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
> 
> I picked  up on that also but wasn't going to say anything. 
> However it is  a
> huge "typo".
> 
> However, if the hunt is happening on  lands that are owned by NYC, i.e. 
> the reservoirs? The statement is  appropriate.
> 
> 
> Matthew Voisine
>  Biologist
> USACE- NY District
> 26 Federal Plaza
> Room  2151
> NY, NY 10278
> 917.790.8718 voice
> 702.271.0496  mobile
> 212.264.0961 fax
> matthew.vois...@usace.army.mil
>  
> 
> -Original Message-
> From:  bounce-113422972-8614...@list.cornell.edu 
>  [mailto

RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)

[Patrick Santinello]

This is just not true.  There have been instances of Whooping Cranes being 
killed by Sandhill Crane hunters and Snow Goose hunters.  Thinking that ALL 
hunters know EXACTLY what species they are shooting at when they pull the 
trigger is simply not true.  There is plenty of history to refute your thought.
Sorry

-Original Message-
From: bounce-113466175-13703...@list.cornell.edu 
[mailto:bounce-113466175-13703...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Voisine, 
Matthew NAN02
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 11:38 AM
To: Glenn Wilson; 
Cc: Larry Federman; Will Raup; Stella Miller; NYSBIRDS-L; Voisine, Matthew NAN02
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

I think this subject is getting out of control but my experience is hunters 
know EXACTLY what the species is that they are hunting. The conversation is 
beginning to criticize hunters unduly.

Whether they know about something that they are not hunting is another story 
and not really relevant

Matthew Voisine
Biologist
USACE- NY District
26 Federal Plaza
Room 2151
NY, NY 10278
917.790.8718 voice
702.271.0496 mobile
212.264.0961 fax
matthew.vois...@usace.army.mil


-Original Message-
From: Glenn Wilson [mailto:wil...@stny.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, 21 March, 2014 11:32
To: 
Cc: Larry Federman; Voisine, Matthew NAN02; Will Raup; Stella Miller; NYSBIRDS-L
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)

I'm curious how many hunters actually know the difference between a crow (fish 
of American) and starling, red-winged BB, Rusty BB, and Grackles. I'd be 
surprised if even 25% of the hunters even try yo differentiate these "black" 
birds. 


Glenn Wilson
Endicott, NY
www.WilsonsWarbler.com

On Mar 21, 2014, at 11:09 AM,  wrote:


Hi everyone:

While the state legislation proposed to stop these kind of shooting events is 
important, laudable and should be strongly supported by the NY conservation 
community, it if was to be signed into law by Governor Cuomoto tomorrow, 
individual hunters could still go out each and every day for seven months (Sept 
1-March 31 as the chart detaling the NYSDEC regs. provided by Lynne Hertzog 
illustrates)  and shoot as many crows as they desire. 

Thus, if we want to provide crows with complete protection we need to have 
state legislation introduced to have American and Fish Crows classified as 
songbirds and to close the hunting season for them or some other alternate 
approach.. 

John Turner 



- Original Message -
From: Larry Federman
Date: Friday, March 21, 2014 9:49 am
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)
To: "Voisine, Matthew NAN02" , Will Raup , Stella Miller , NYSBIRDS-L
Cc: "Voisine, Matthew NAN02" 

> Thanks, Matthew,
> It's moot at this point since the Press Release was changed, but the 
> shoot is just outside the NYC watershed.
> 
> Larry Federman
> President, Northern Catskills Audubon
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Voisine, Matthew NAN02
> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 2:18 PM
> To: Will Raup ; Stella Miller ; NYSBIRDS-L
> Cc: Voisine, Matthew NAN02
> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)
> 
> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
> 
> I picked up on that also but wasn't going to say anything. 
> However it is a
> huge "typo".
> 
> However, if the hunt is happening on lands that are owned by NYC, i.e. 
> the reservoirs? The statement is appropriate.
> 
> 
> Matthew Voisine
> Biologist
> USACE- NY District
> 26 Federal Plaza
> Room 2151
> NY, NY 10278
> 917.790.8718 voice
> 702.271.0496 mobile
> 212.264.0961 fax
> matthew.vois...@usace.army.mil
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: bounce-113422972-8614...@list.cornell.edu 
> [mailto:bounce-113422972-8614...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of 
> Will Raup
> Sent: Thursday, 20 March, 2014 14:11
> To: Stella Miller; NYSBIRDS-L
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release
> 
> Sadly the fact the Senator used the term "New York City DEC", 
> means it will 
> be ignored. It should be edited immediately to say New York 
> State DEC, 
> otherwise this will be dismissed by upstate residents who will 
> just view 
> this as another "City" politician who has no idea what is going 
> on north of 
> New York City.
> 
> The statement may seem minor, but many will stop reading after 
> that 
> particular sentence. And you can bet the opposition will use 
> that to their 
> advantage.
> 
> Will Raup
> Albany, NY
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 07:11:02 -0700
> From: stella.mille...@yahoo.com
> Subject: [nysbirds-l] Press release
> To: NYSBirds-L@cornell

Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)

[Phil Uruburu]

Well stated Alicia.
Phil Uruburu

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 21, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Alicia Plotkin  wrote:
> 
> I agree completely with Mr. Voisine.  I don't know anyone who has 
> participated in one of these shooting contests, but where I live lots of 
> people hunt, and while they generally eat the venison or duck or turkey they 
> kill, they can perfectly well afford to go to the supermarket for their meat, 
> they don't need to hunt to eat.  It's a sport, and they definitely prefer 
> getting a 10 or 12 point buck to a 4 point one for the bragging rights.  But 
> this doesn't make them ignorant, crass, or otherwise violent people - they 
> love the outdoors and they pay attention to the birds and animals around 
> them, they just enjoy hunting and I don't think anyone should feel morally 
> superior to them unless they are a vegetarian.  Moreover, I would match their 
> knowledge of NYS wildlife with that of most people on this list.  They don't 
> know the Latin names, but they can point out the Scarlet Tanager nest and 
> notice when the cuckoos are back since they are out hunting turkeys then.  
> And please note they are not even necessarily members of the NRA or against 
> banning assault rifles.  
> 
> I know this email has gone very far afield from bird talk, but if people 
> understand hunters better, then this lobbying will be more likely to succeed. 
>  Many, probably most, hunters would not lift a finger in support this crow 
> shoot  - they probably won't be willing to speak out against it, but neither 
> would they actively support it - unless the discussion surrounding the 
> lobbying makes them feel like hunting and hunters more generally are being 
> disrespected.  So it would be helpful to understand that most hunters are in 
> fact people you would enjoy meeting and talking with - and definitely taking 
> a walk in the woods with - and your only dispute is with the few people who 
> want to have these competitive body count events.  You shouldn't think of 
> those people as hunters any more than you would think of the extremely 
> competitive people who think nothing of crossing onto private property to 
> twitch a rare bird as birders: technically you would be right in each case, 
> but that label would be pretty misleading.
> 
> Alicia
> 
> 
>> On 3/21/2014 11:38 AM, Voisine, Matthew NAN02 wrote:
>> I think this subject is getting out of control but my experience is hunters 
>> know EXACTLY what the species is that they are hunting. The conversation is 
>> beginning to criticize hunters unduly.
>> 
>> Whether they know about something that they are not hunting is another story 
>> and not really relevant
>> 
>> Matthew Voisine
>> Biologist
>> USACE- NY District
>> 26 Federal Plaza
>> Room 2151
>> NY, NY 10278
>> 917.790.8718 voice
>> 702.271.0496 mobile
>> 212.264.0961 fax
>> matthew.vois...@usace.army.mil
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-
>> From: Glenn Wilson [mailto:wil...@stny.rr.com] 
>> Sent: Friday, 21 March, 2014 11:32
>> To: 
>> Cc: Larry Federman; Voisine, Matthew NAN02; Will Raup; Stella Miller; 
>> NYSBIRDS-L
>> Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)
>> 
>> I'm curious how many hunters actually know the difference between a crow 
>> (fish of American) and starling, red-winged BB, Rusty BB, and Grackles. I'd 
>> be surprised if even 25% of the hunters even try yo differentiate these 
>> "black" birds. 
>> 
>> 
>> Glenn Wilson
>> Endicott, NY
>> www.WilsonsWarbler.com
>> 
>> On Mar 21, 2014, at 11:09 AM,  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Hi everyone:
>> 
>> While the state legislation proposed to stop these kind of shooting events 
>> is important, laudable and should be strongly supported by the NY 
>> conservation community, it if was to be signed into law by Governor Cuomoto 
>> tomorrow, individual hunters could still go out each and every day for seven 
>> months (Sept 1-March 31 as the chart detaling the NYSDEC regs. provided by 
>> Lynne Hertzog illustrates)  and shoot as many crows as they desire. 
>> 
>> Thus, if we want to provide crows with complete protection we need to have 
>> state legislation introduced to have American and Fish Crows classified as 
>> songbirds and to close the hunting season for them or some other alternate 
>> approach.. 
>> 
>> John Turner 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> - Original Message -
>> From: Larry Federman 
>> Date: Friday, March 21, 2014 9:49 am
>> Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIE

Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)

[Alicia Plotkin]

I agree completely with Mr. Voisine.  I don't know anyone who has 
participated in one of these shooting contests, but where I live lots of 
people hunt, and while they generally eat the venison or duck or turkey 
they kill, they can perfectly well afford to go to the supermarket for 
their meat, they don't need to hunt to eat. It's a sport, and they 
definitely prefer getting a 10 or 12 point buck to a 4 point one for the 
bragging rights.  But this doesn't make them ignorant, crass, or 
otherwise violent people - they love the outdoors and they pay attention 
to the birds and animals around them, they just enjoy hunting and I 
don't think anyone should feel morally superior to them unless they are 
a vegetarian.  Moreover, I would match their knowledge of NYS wildlife 
with that of most people on this list.  They don't know the Latin names, 
but they can point out the Scarlet Tanager nest and notice when the 
cuckoos are back since they are out hunting turkeys then.  And please 
note they are not even necessarily members of the NRA or against banning 
assault rifles.

I know this email has gone very far afield from bird talk, but if people 
understand hunters better, then this lobbying will be more likely to 
succeed.  Many, probably most, hunters would not lift a finger in 
support this crow shoot  - they probably won't be willing to speak out 
against it, but neither would they actively support it /- unless/ the 
discussion surrounding the lobbying makes them feel like hunting and 
hunters more generally are being disrespected.  So it would be helpful 
to understand that most hunters are in fact people you would enjoy 
meeting and talking with - and definitely taking a walk in the woods 
with - and your only dispute is with the few people who want to have 
these competitive body count events.  You shouldn't think of those 
people as hunters any more than you would think of the extremely 
competitive people who think nothing of crossing onto private property 
to twitch a rare bird as birders: technically you would be right in each 
case, but that label would be pretty misleading.

Alicia


On 3/21/2014 11:38 AM, Voisine, Matthew NAN02 wrote:
> I think this subject is getting out of control but my experience is hunters 
> know EXACTLY what the species is that they are hunting. The conversation is 
> beginning to criticize hunters unduly.
>
> Whether they know about something that they are not hunting is another story 
> and not really relevant
>
> Matthew Voisine
> Biologist
> USACE- NY District
> 26 Federal Plaza
> Room 2151
> NY, NY 10278
> 917.790.8718 voice
> 702.271.0496 mobile
> 212.264.0961 fax
> matthew.vois...@usace.army.mil
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Glenn Wilson [mailto:wil...@stny.rr.com]
> Sent: Friday, 21 March, 2014 11:32
> To:
> Cc: Larry Federman; Voisine, Matthew NAN02; Will Raup; Stella Miller; 
> NYSBIRDS-L
> Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)
>
> I'm curious how many hunters actually know the difference between a crow 
> (fish of American) and starling, red-winged BB, Rusty BB, and Grackles. I'd 
> be surprised if even 25% of the hunters even try yo differentiate these 
> "black" birds.
>
>
> Glenn Wilson
> Endicott, NY
> www.WilsonsWarbler.com
>
> On Mar 21, 2014, at 11:09 AM,  wrote:
>
>
> Hi everyone:
>
> While the state legislation proposed to stop these kind of shooting events is 
> important, laudable and should be strongly supported by the NY conservation 
> community, it if was to be signed into law by Governor Cuomoto tomorrow, 
> individual hunters could still go out each and every day for seven months 
> (Sept 1-March 31 as the chart detaling the NYSDEC regs. provided by Lynne 
> Hertzog illustrates)  and shoot as many crows as they desire.
>
> Thus, if we want to provide crows with complete protection we need to have 
> state legislation introduced to have American and Fish Crows classified as 
> songbirds and to close the hunting season for them or some other alternate 
> approach..
>
> John Turner
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Larry Federman
> Date: Friday, March 21, 2014 9:49 am
> Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)
> To: "Voisine, Matthew NAN02" , Will Raup , Stella Miller , NYSBIRDS-L
> Cc: "Voisine, Matthew NAN02"
>
>> Thanks, Matthew,
>> It's moot at this point since the Press Release was changed, but
>> the shoot
>> is just outside the NYC watershed.
>>
>> Larry Federman
>> President, Northern Catskills Audubon
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Voisine, Matthew NAN02
>> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 2:18 PM
>> To: Will Raup ; Stella Miller ; NYSBIRDS-L

Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)

[Hugh McGuinness]

Sometimes I wonder if birders know what black birds they are looking at:
remember the Boat-tailed Grackle versus Rusty Blackbird discussion of a few
weeks ago. [?]

Hugh


On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 11:38 AM, Voisine, Matthew NAN02 <
matthew.vois...@usace.army.mil> wrote:

> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
>
> I think this subject is getting out of control but my experience is
> hunters know EXACTLY what the species is that they are hunting. The
> conversation is beginning to criticize hunters unduly.
>
> Whether they know about something that they are not hunting is another
> story and not really relevant
>
> Matthew Voisine
> Biologist
> USACE- NY District
> 26 Federal Plaza
> Room 2151
> NY, NY 10278
> 917.790.8718 voice
> 702.271.0496 mobile
> 212.264.0961 fax
> matthew.vois...@usace.army.mil
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Glenn Wilson [mailto:wil...@stny.rr.com]
> Sent: Friday, 21 March, 2014 11:32
> To: 
> Cc: Larry Federman; Voisine, Matthew NAN02; Will Raup; Stella Miller;
> NYSBIRDS-L
> Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)
>
> I'm curious how many hunters actually know the difference between a crow
> (fish of American) and starling, red-winged BB, Rusty BB, and Grackles. I'd
> be surprised if even 25% of the hunters even try yo differentiate these
> "black" birds.
>
>
> Glenn Wilson
> Endicott, NY
> www.WilsonsWarbler.com
>
> On Mar 21, 2014, at 11:09 AM,  wrote:
>
>
> Hi everyone:
>
> While the state legislation proposed to stop these kind of shooting events
> is important, laudable and should be strongly supported by the NY
> conservation community, it if was to be signed into law by Governor Cuomoto
> tomorrow, individual hunters could still go out each and every day for
> seven months (Sept 1-March 31 as the chart detaling the NYSDEC regs.
> provided by Lynne Hertzog illustrates)  and shoot as many crows as they
> desire.
>
> Thus, if we want to provide crows with complete protection we need to have
> state legislation introduced to have American and Fish Crows classified as
> songbirds and to close the hunting season for them or some other alternate
> approach..
>
> John Turner
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Larry Federman
> Date: Friday, March 21, 2014 9:49 am
> Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)
> To: "Voisine, Matthew NAN02" , Will Raup , Stella Miller , NYSBIRDS-L
> Cc: "Voisine, Matthew NAN02"
>
> > Thanks, Matthew,
> > It's moot at this point since the Press Release was changed, but
> > the shoot
> > is just outside the NYC watershed.
> >
> > Larry Federman
> > President, Northern Catskills Audubon
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Voisine, Matthew NAN02
> > Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 2:18 PM
> > To: Will Raup ; Stella Miller ; NYSBIRDS-L
> > Cc: Voisine, Matthew NAN02
> > Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)
> >
> > Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> > Caveats: NONE
> >
> > I picked up on that also but wasn't going to say anything.
> > However it is a
> > huge "typo".
> >
> > However, if the hunt is happening on lands that are owned by
> > NYC, i.e. the
> > reservoirs? The statement is appropriate.
> >
> >
> > Matthew Voisine
> > Biologist
> > USACE- NY District
> > 26 Federal Plaza
> > Room 2151
> > NY, NY 10278
> > 917.790.8718 voice
> > 702.271.0496 mobile
> > 212.264.0961 fax
> > matthew.vois...@usace.army.mil
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: bounce-113422972-8614...@list.cornell.edu
> > [mailto:bounce-113422972-8614...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of
> > Will Raup
> > Sent: Thursday, 20 March, 2014 14:11
> > To: Stella Miller; NYSBIRDS-L
> > Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release
> >
> > Sadly the fact the Senator used the term "New York City DEC",
> > means it will
> > be ignored. It should be edited immediately to say New York
> > State DEC,
> > otherwise this will be dismissed by upstate residents who will
> > just view
> > this as another "City" politician who has no idea what is going
> > on north of
> > New York City.
> >
> > The statement may seem minor, but many will stop reading after
> > that
> > particular sentence. And you can bet the opposition will use
> > that to their
> > advantage.
> >
> > Will Raup
> > Albany, NY
> >
&

RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)

[Voisine, Matthew NAN02]

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

I think this subject is getting out of control but my experience is hunters 
know EXACTLY what the species is that they are hunting. The conversation is 
beginning to criticize hunters unduly.

Whether they know about something that they are not hunting is another story 
and not really relevant

Matthew Voisine
Biologist
USACE- NY District
26 Federal Plaza
Room 2151
NY, NY 10278
917.790.8718 voice
702.271.0496 mobile
212.264.0961 fax
matthew.vois...@usace.army.mil


-Original Message-
From: Glenn Wilson [mailto:wil...@stny.rr.com] 
Sent: Friday, 21 March, 2014 11:32
To: 
Cc: Larry Federman; Voisine, Matthew NAN02; Will Raup; Stella Miller; NYSBIRDS-L
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)

I'm curious how many hunters actually know the difference between a crow (fish 
of American) and starling, red-winged BB, Rusty BB, and Grackles. I'd be 
surprised if even 25% of the hunters even try yo differentiate these "black" 
birds. 


Glenn Wilson
Endicott, NY
www.WilsonsWarbler.com

On Mar 21, 2014, at 11:09 AM,  wrote:


Hi everyone:

While the state legislation proposed to stop these kind of shooting events is 
important, laudable and should be strongly supported by the NY conservation 
community, it if was to be signed into law by Governor Cuomoto tomorrow, 
individual hunters could still go out each and every day for seven months (Sept 
1-March 31 as the chart detaling the NYSDEC regs. provided by Lynne Hertzog 
illustrates)  and shoot as many crows as they desire. 

Thus, if we want to provide crows with complete protection we need to have 
state legislation introduced to have American and Fish Crows classified as 
songbirds and to close the hunting season for them or some other alternate 
approach.. 

John Turner 



- Original Message -
From: Larry Federman 
Date: Friday, March 21, 2014 9:49 am
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)
To: "Voisine, Matthew NAN02" , Will Raup , Stella Miller , NYSBIRDS-L 
Cc: "Voisine, Matthew NAN02" 

> Thanks, Matthew,
> It's moot at this point since the Press Release was changed, but 
> the shoot 
> is just outside the NYC watershed.
> 
> Larry Federman
> President, Northern Catskills Audubon
> 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: Voisine, Matthew NAN02
> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 2:18 PM
> To: Will Raup ; Stella Miller ; NYSBIRDS-L
> Cc: Voisine, Matthew NAN02
> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)
> 
> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
> 
> I picked up on that also but wasn't going to say anything. 
> However it is a 
> huge "typo".
> 
> However, if the hunt is happening on lands that are owned by 
> NYC, i.e. the 
> reservoirs? The statement is appropriate.
> 
> 
> Matthew Voisine
> Biologist
> USACE- NY District
> 26 Federal Plaza
> Room 2151
> NY, NY 10278
> 917.790.8718 voice
> 702.271.0496 mobile
> 212.264.0961 fax
> matthew.vois...@usace.army.mil
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: bounce-113422972-8614...@list.cornell.edu 
> [mailto:bounce-113422972-8614...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of 
> Will Raup
> Sent: Thursday, 20 March, 2014 14:11
> To: Stella Miller; NYSBIRDS-L
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release
> 
> Sadly the fact the Senator used the term "New York City DEC", 
> means it will 
> be ignored. It should be edited immediately to say New York 
> State DEC, 
> otherwise this will be dismissed by upstate residents who will 
> just view 
> this as another "City" politician who has no idea what is going 
> on north of 
> New York City.
> 
> The statement may seem minor, but many will stop reading after 
> that 
> particular sentence. And you can bet the opposition will use 
> that to their 
> advantage.
> 
> Will Raup
> Albany, NY
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 07:11:02 -0700
> From: stella.mille...@yahoo.com
> Subject: [nysbirds-l] Press release
> To: NYSBirds-L@cornell.edu
> 
> 
> Attached is the press release regarding the legislation.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Stella
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Conservation is sometimes perceived as stopping everything 
> cold, as holding 
> whooping cranes in higher esteem than people. It is up to 
> science to spread 
> the understanding that the choice is not between wild places or 
> people, it 
> is between a rich or an impoverished existence for Man." Thomas 
> Lovejoy--
> NYSbirds-L List Info:
> Welcome and Basics 
> Rules and Information 
> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave 
> 
> Archives:
> The Mail Archive 

Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)

[Glenn Wilson]

I'm curious how many hunters actually know the difference between a crow (fish 
of American) and starling, red-winged BB, Rusty BB, and Grackles. I'd be 
surprised if even 25% of the hunters even try yo differentiate these "black" 
birds. 

Glenn Wilson
Endicott, NY
www.WilsonsWarbler.com

On Mar 21, 2014, at 11:09 AM,  wrote:

Hi everyone:

While the state legislation proposed to stop these kind of shooting events is 
important, laudable and should be strongly supported by the NY conservation 
community, it if was to be signed into law by Governor Cuomoto tomorrow, 
individual hunters could still go out each and every day for seven months (Sept 
1-March 31 as the chart detaling the NYSDEC regs. provided by Lynne Hertzog 
illustrates)  and shoot as many crows as they desire. 

Thus, if we want to provide crows with complete protection we need to have 
state legislation introduced to have American and Fish Crows classified as 
songbirds and to close the hunting season for them or some other alternate 
approach.. 

John Turner 


- Original Message -
From: Larry Federman 
Date: Friday, March 21, 2014 9:49 am
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)
To: "Voisine, Matthew NAN02" , Will Raup , Stella Miller , NYSBIRDS-L 
Cc: "Voisine, Matthew NAN02" 

> Thanks, Matthew,
> It's moot at this point since the Press Release was changed, but 
> the shoot 
> is just outside the NYC watershed.
> 
> Larry Federman
> President, Northern Catskills Audubon
> 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: Voisine, Matthew NAN02
> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 2:18 PM
> To: Will Raup ; Stella Miller ; NYSBIRDS-L
> Cc: Voisine, Matthew NAN02
> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)
> 
> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
> 
> I picked up on that also but wasn't going to say anything. 
> However it is a 
> huge "typo".
> 
> However, if the hunt is happening on lands that are owned by 
> NYC, i.e. the 
> reservoirs? The statement is appropriate.
> 
> 
> Matthew Voisine
> Biologist
> USACE- NY District
> 26 Federal Plaza
> Room 2151
> NY, NY 10278
> 917.790.8718 voice
> 702.271.0496 mobile
> 212.264.0961 fax
> matthew.vois...@usace.army.mil
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: bounce-113422972-8614...@list.cornell.edu 
> [mailto:bounce-113422972-8614...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of 
> Will Raup
> Sent: Thursday, 20 March, 2014 14:11
> To: Stella Miller; NYSBIRDS-L
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release
> 
> Sadly the fact the Senator used the term "New York City DEC", 
> means it will 
> be ignored. It should be edited immediately to say New York 
> State DEC, 
> otherwise this will be dismissed by upstate residents who will 
> just view 
> this as another "City" politician who has no idea what is going 
> on north of 
> New York City.
> 
> The statement may seem minor, but many will stop reading after 
> that 
> particular sentence. And you can bet the opposition will use 
> that to their 
> advantage.
> 
> Will Raup
> Albany, NY
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 07:11:02 -0700
> From: stella.mille...@yahoo.com
> Subject: [nysbirds-l] Press release
> To: NYSBirds-L@cornell.edu
> 
> 
> Attached is the press release regarding the legislation.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Stella
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Conservation is sometimes perceived as stopping everything 
> cold, as holding 
> whooping cranes in higher esteem than people. It is up to 
> science to spread 
> the understanding that the choice is not between wild places or 
> people, it 
> is between a rich or an impoverished existence for Man." Thomas 
> Lovejoy--
> NYSbirds-L List Info:
> Welcome and Basics 
> Rules and Information 
> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave 
> 
> Archives:
> The Mail Archive 
> 
> Surfbirds 
> BirdingOnThe.Net 
> Please submit your observations to eBird 
> !
> --
> --
> NYSbirds-L List Info:
> Welcome and Basics 
> Rules and Information 
> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave 
> 
> Archives:
> The Mail Archive 
> 
> Surfbirds 
> BirdingOnThe.Net 
> Please submit your observations to eBird 
> !
> --
> 
> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> NYSbirds-L List Info:
> http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME
> http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES
> http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm
> 
> ARCHIVES:
> 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html
> 2) http://www

Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)

[redknot]

Hi everyone:

While the state legislation proposed to stop these kind of shooting events is 
important, laudable and should be strongly supported by the NY conservation 
community, it if was to be signed into law by Governor Cuomoto tomorrow, 
individual hunters could still go out each and every day for seven months (Sept 
1-March 31 as the chart detaling the NYSDEC regs. provided by Lynne Hertzog 
illustrates)  and shoot as many crows as they desire. 

Thus, if we want to provide crows with complete protection we need to have 
state legislation introduced to have American and Fish Crows classified as 
songbirds and to close the hunting season for them or some other alternate 
approach.. 

John Turner 


- Original Message -
From: Larry Federman 
Date: Friday, March 21, 2014 9:49 am
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)
To: "Voisine, Matthew NAN02" , Will Raup , Stella Miller , NYSBIRDS-L 
Cc: "Voisine, Matthew NAN02" 

> Thanks, Matthew,
> It's moot at this point since the Press Release was changed, but 
> the shoot 
> is just outside the NYC watershed.
> 
> Larry Federman
> President, Northern Catskills Audubon
> 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: Voisine, Matthew NAN02
> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 2:18 PM
> To: Will Raup ; Stella Miller ; NYSBIRDS-L
> Cc: Voisine, Matthew NAN02
> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)
> 
> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
> 
> I picked up on that also but wasn't going to say anything. 
> However it is a 
> huge "typo".
> 
> However, if the hunt is happening on lands that are owned by 
> NYC, i.e. the 
> reservoirs? The statement is appropriate.
> 
> 
> Matthew Voisine
> Biologist
> USACE- NY District
> 26 Federal Plaza
> Room 2151
> NY, NY 10278
> 917.790.8718 voice
> 702.271.0496 mobile
> 212.264.0961 fax
> matthew.vois...@usace.army.mil
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: bounce-113422972-8614...@list.cornell.edu 
> [mailto:bounce-113422972-8614...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of 
> Will Raup
> Sent: Thursday, 20 March, 2014 14:11
> To: Stella Miller; NYSBIRDS-L
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release
> 
> Sadly the fact the Senator used the term "New York City DEC", 
> means it will 
> be ignored. It should be edited immediately to say New York 
> State DEC, 
> otherwise this will be dismissed by upstate residents who will 
> just view 
> this as another "City" politician who has no idea what is going 
> on north of 
> New York City.
> 
> The statement may seem minor, but many will stop reading after 
> that 
> particular sentence. And you can bet the opposition will use 
> that to their 
> advantage.
> 
> Will Raup
> Albany, NY
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 07:11:02 -0700
> From: stella.mille...@yahoo.com
> Subject: [nysbirds-l] Press release
> To: NYSBirds-L@cornell.edu
> 
> 
> Attached is the press release regarding the legislation.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Stella
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Conservation is sometimes perceived as stopping everything 
> cold, as holding 
> whooping cranes in higher esteem than people. It is up to 
> science to spread 
> the understanding that the choice is not between wild places or 
> people, it 
> is between a rich or an impoverished existence for Man." Thomas 
> Lovejoy--
> NYSbirds-L List Info:
> Welcome and Basics 
> Rules and Information 
> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave 
> 
> Archives:
> The Mail Archive 
> 
> Surfbirds 
> BirdingOnThe.Net 
> Please submit your observations to eBird 
> !
> --
> --
> NYSbirds-L List Info:
> Welcome and Basics 
> Rules and Information 
> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave 
> 
> Archives:
> The Mail Archive 
> 
> Surfbirds 
> BirdingOnThe.Net 
> Please submit your observations to eBird 
> !
> --
> 
> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> NYSbirds-L List Info:
> http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME
> http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES
> http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm
> 
> ARCHIVES:
> 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html
> 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L
> 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html
> 
> Please submit your observations to eBird:
> http://ebird.org/content/ebird/
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> NYSbirds-L List Info:
> http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME
> http://www.Northeas

Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)

[Larry Federman]

Thanks, Matthew,
It's moot at this point since the Press Release was changed, but the shoot 
is just outside the NYC watershed.


Larry Federman
President, Northern Catskills Audubon


-Original Message- 
From: Voisine, Matthew NAN02

Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 2:18 PM
To: Will Raup ; Stella Miller ; NYSBIRDS-L
Cc: Voisine, Matthew NAN02
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

I picked up on that also but wasn't going to say anything. However it is a 
huge "typo".


However, if the hunt is happening on lands that are owned by NYC, i.e. the 
reservoirs? The statement is appropriate.



Matthew Voisine
Biologist
USACE- NY District
26 Federal Plaza
Room 2151
NY, NY 10278
917.790.8718 voice
702.271.0496 mobile
212.264.0961 fax
matthew.vois...@usace.army.mil


-Original Message-
From: bounce-113422972-8614...@list.cornell.edu 
[mailto:bounce-113422972-8614...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Will Raup

Sent: Thursday, 20 March, 2014 14:11
To: Stella Miller; NYSBIRDS-L
Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release

Sadly the fact the Senator used the term "New York City DEC", means it will 
be ignored.  It should be edited immediately to say New York State DEC, 
otherwise this will be dismissed by upstate residents who will just view 
this as another "City" politician who has no idea what is going on north of 
New York City.


The statement may seem minor, but many will stop reading after that 
particular sentence.  And you can bet the opposition will use that to their 
advantage.


Will Raup
Albany, NY




Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 07:11:02 -0700
From: stella.mille...@yahoo.com
Subject: [nysbirds-l] Press release
To: NYSBirds-L@cornell.edu


Attached is the press release regarding the legislation.


Thanks,


Stella




"Conservation is sometimes perceived as stopping everything cold, as holding 
whooping cranes in higher esteem than people. It is up to science to spread 
the understanding that the choice is not between wild places or people, it 
is between a rich or an impoverished existence for Man." Thomas Lovejoy

--
NYSbirds-L List Info:
Welcome and Basics <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME>
Rules and Information <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES>
Subscribe, Configuration and Leave 
<http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm>

Archives:
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<http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l%40cornell.edu/maillist.html>

Surfbirds <http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L>
BirdingOnThe.Net <http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html>
Please submit your observations to eBird <http://ebird.org/content/ebird/> !
--
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Subscribe, Configuration and Leave 
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Surfbirds <http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L>
BirdingOnThe.Net <http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html>
Please submit your observations to eBird <http://ebird.org/content/ebird/> !
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Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE



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Please submit your observations to eBird:
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ARCHIVES:
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Please submit your observations to eBird:
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--

Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)

[Larry Federman]

Thanks, Matthew,
It's moot at this point since the Press Release was changed, but the shoot 
is just outside the NYC watershed.


Larry Federman
President, Northern Catskills Audubon


-Original Message- 
From: Voisine, Matthew NAN02

Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 2:18 PM
To: Will Raup ; Stella Miller ; NYSBIRDS-L
Cc: Voisine, Matthew NAN02
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

I picked up on that also but wasn't going to say anything. However it is a 
huge typo.


However, if the hunt is happening on lands that are owned by NYC, i.e. the 
reservoirs? The statement is appropriate.



Matthew Voisine
Biologist
USACE- NY District
26 Federal Plaza
Room 2151
NY, NY 10278
917.790.8718 voice
702.271.0496 mobile
212.264.0961 fax
matthew.vois...@usace.army.mil


-Original Message-
From: bounce-113422972-8614...@list.cornell.edu 
[mailto:bounce-113422972-8614...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Will Raup

Sent: Thursday, 20 March, 2014 14:11
To: Stella Miller; NYSBIRDS-L
Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release

Sadly the fact the Senator used the term New York City DEC, means it will 
be ignored.  It should be edited immediately to say New York State DEC, 
otherwise this will be dismissed by upstate residents who will just view 
this as another City politician who has no idea what is going on north of 
New York City.


The statement may seem minor, but many will stop reading after that 
particular sentence.  And you can bet the opposition will use that to their 
advantage.


Will Raup
Albany, NY




Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 07:11:02 -0700
From: stella.mille...@yahoo.com
Subject: [nysbirds-l] Press release
To: NYSBirds-L@cornell.edu


Attached is the press release regarding the legislation.


Thanks,


Stella




Conservation is sometimes perceived as stopping everything cold, as holding 
whooping cranes in higher esteem than people. It is up to science to spread 
the understanding that the choice is not between wild places or people, it 
is between a rich or an impoverished existence for Man. Thomas Lovejoy

--
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Please submit your observations to eBird http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ !
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Please submit your observations to eBird http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ !
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Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE



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Please submit your observations to eBird:
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--

Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)

[redknot]

Hi everyone:

While the state legislation proposed to stop these kind of shooting events is 
important, laudable and should be strongly supported by the NY conservation 
community, it if was to be signed into law by Governor Cuomoto tomorrow, 
individual hunters could still go out each and every day for seven months (Sept 
1-March 31 as the chart detaling the NYSDEC regs. provided by Lynne Hertzog 
illustrates)  and shoot as many crows as they desire. 

Thus, if we want to provide crows with complete protection we need to have 
state legislation introduced to have American and Fish Crows classified as 
songbirds and to close the hunting season for them or some other alternate 
approach.. 

John Turner 


- Original Message -
From: Larry Federman 
Date: Friday, March 21, 2014 9:49 am
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)
To: Voisine, Matthew NAN02 , Will Raup , Stella Miller , NYSBIRDS-L 
Cc: Voisine, Matthew NAN02 

 Thanks, Matthew,
 It's moot at this point since the Press Release was changed, but 
 the shoot 
 is just outside the NYC watershed.
 
 Larry Federman
 President, Northern Catskills Audubon
 
 
 -Original Message- 
 From: Voisine, Matthew NAN02
 Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 2:18 PM
 To: Will Raup ; Stella Miller ; NYSBIRDS-L
 Cc: Voisine, Matthew NAN02
 Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)
 
 Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
 Caveats: NONE
 
 I picked up on that also but wasn't going to say anything. 
 However it is a 
 huge typo.
 
 However, if the hunt is happening on lands that are owned by 
 NYC, i.e. the 
 reservoirs? The statement is appropriate.
 
 
 Matthew Voisine
 Biologist
 USACE- NY District
 26 Federal Plaza
 Room 2151
 NY, NY 10278
 917.790.8718 voice
 702.271.0496 mobile
 212.264.0961 fax
 matthew.vois...@usace.army.mil
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: bounce-113422972-8614...@list.cornell.edu 
 [mailto:bounce-113422972-8614...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of 
 Will Raup
 Sent: Thursday, 20 March, 2014 14:11
 To: Stella Miller; NYSBIRDS-L
 Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release
 
 Sadly the fact the Senator used the term New York City DEC, 
 means it will 
 be ignored. It should be edited immediately to say New York 
 State DEC, 
 otherwise this will be dismissed by upstate residents who will 
 just view 
 this as another City politician who has no idea what is going 
 on north of 
 New York City.
 
 The statement may seem minor, but many will stop reading after 
 that 
 particular sentence. And you can bet the opposition will use 
 that to their 
 advantage.
 
 Will Raup
 Albany, NY
 
 
 
 
 Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 07:11:02 -0700
 From: stella.mille...@yahoo.com
 Subject: [nysbirds-l] Press release
 To: NYSBirds-L@cornell.edu
 
 
 Attached is the press release regarding the legislation.
 
 
 Thanks,
 
 
 Stella
 
 
 
 
 Conservation is sometimes perceived as stopping everything 
 cold, as holding 
 whooping cranes in higher esteem than people. It is up to 
 science to spread 
 the understanding that the choice is not between wild places or 
 people, it 
 is between a rich or an impoverished existence for Man. Thomas 
 Lovejoy--
 NYSbirds-L List Info:
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 Rules and Information 
 Subscribe, Configuration and Leave 
 
 Archives:
 The Mail Archive 
 
 Surfbirds 
 BirdingOnThe.Net 
 Please submit your observations to eBird 
 !
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 Rules and Information 
 Subscribe, Configuration and Leave 
 
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 Surfbirds 
 BirdingOnThe.Net 
 Please submit your observations to eBird 
 !
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 Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
 Caveats: NONE
 
 
 
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Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)

[Glenn Wilson]

I'm curious how many hunters actually know the difference between a crow (fish 
of American) and starling, red-winged BB, Rusty BB, and Grackles. I'd be 
surprised if even 25% of the hunters even try yo differentiate these black 
birds. 

Glenn Wilson
Endicott, NY
www.WilsonsWarbler.com

On Mar 21, 2014, at 11:09 AM, redk...@optonline.net wrote:

Hi everyone:

While the state legislation proposed to stop these kind of shooting events is 
important, laudable and should be strongly supported by the NY conservation 
community, it if was to be signed into law by Governor Cuomoto tomorrow, 
individual hunters could still go out each and every day for seven months (Sept 
1-March 31 as the chart detaling the NYSDEC regs. provided by Lynne Hertzog 
illustrates)  and shoot as many crows as they desire. 

Thus, if we want to provide crows with complete protection we need to have 
state legislation introduced to have American and Fish Crows classified as 
songbirds and to close the hunting season for them or some other alternate 
approach.. 

John Turner 


- Original Message -
From: Larry Federman 
Date: Friday, March 21, 2014 9:49 am
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)
To: Voisine, Matthew NAN02 , Will Raup , Stella Miller , NYSBIRDS-L 
Cc: Voisine, Matthew NAN02 

 Thanks, Matthew,
 It's moot at this point since the Press Release was changed, but 
 the shoot 
 is just outside the NYC watershed.
 
 Larry Federman
 President, Northern Catskills Audubon
 
 
 -Original Message- 
 From: Voisine, Matthew NAN02
 Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 2:18 PM
 To: Will Raup ; Stella Miller ; NYSBIRDS-L
 Cc: Voisine, Matthew NAN02
 Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)
 
 Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
 Caveats: NONE
 
 I picked up on that also but wasn't going to say anything. 
 However it is a 
 huge typo.
 
 However, if the hunt is happening on lands that are owned by 
 NYC, i.e. the 
 reservoirs? The statement is appropriate.
 
 
 Matthew Voisine
 Biologist
 USACE- NY District
 26 Federal Plaza
 Room 2151
 NY, NY 10278
 917.790.8718 voice
 702.271.0496 mobile
 212.264.0961 fax
 matthew.vois...@usace.army.mil
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: bounce-113422972-8614...@list.cornell.edu 
 [mailto:bounce-113422972-8614...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of 
 Will Raup
 Sent: Thursday, 20 March, 2014 14:11
 To: Stella Miller; NYSBIRDS-L
 Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release
 
 Sadly the fact the Senator used the term New York City DEC, 
 means it will 
 be ignored. It should be edited immediately to say New York 
 State DEC, 
 otherwise this will be dismissed by upstate residents who will 
 just view 
 this as another City politician who has no idea what is going 
 on north of 
 New York City.
 
 The statement may seem minor, but many will stop reading after 
 that 
 particular sentence. And you can bet the opposition will use 
 that to their 
 advantage.
 
 Will Raup
 Albany, NY
 
 
 
 
 Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 07:11:02 -0700
 From: stella.mille...@yahoo.com
 Subject: [nysbirds-l] Press release
 To: NYSBirds-L@cornell.edu
 
 
 Attached is the press release regarding the legislation.
 
 
 Thanks,
 
 
 Stella
 
 
 
 
 Conservation is sometimes perceived as stopping everything 
 cold, as holding 
 whooping cranes in higher esteem than people. It is up to 
 science to spread 
 the understanding that the choice is not between wild places or 
 people, it 
 is between a rich or an impoverished existence for Man. Thomas 
 Lovejoy--
 NYSbirds-L List Info:
 Welcome and Basics 
 Rules and Information 
 Subscribe, Configuration and Leave 
 
 Archives:
 The Mail Archive 
 
 Surfbirds 
 BirdingOnThe.Net 
 Please submit your observations to eBird 
 !
 --
 --
 NYSbirds-L List Info:
 Welcome and Basics 
 Rules and Information 
 Subscribe, Configuration and Leave 
 
 Archives:
 The Mail Archive 
 
 Surfbirds 
 BirdingOnThe.Net 
 Please submit your observations to eBird 
 !
 --
 
 Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
 Caveats: NONE
 
 
 
 --
 
 NYSbirds-L List Info:
 http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME
 http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES
 http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm
 
 ARCHIVES:
 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html
 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L
 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html
 
 Please submit your observations to eBird:
 http://ebird.org/content/ebird/
 
 -- 
 
 
 --
 
 NYSbirds-L List Info:
 http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME
 http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES
 http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm
 
 ARCHIVES:
 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html
 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L
 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html
 
 Please submit your observations

RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)

[Voisine, Matthew NAN02]

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

I think this subject is getting out of control but my experience is hunters 
know EXACTLY what the species is that they are hunting. The conversation is 
beginning to criticize hunters unduly.

Whether they know about something that they are not hunting is another story 
and not really relevant

Matthew Voisine
Biologist
USACE- NY District
26 Federal Plaza
Room 2151
NY, NY 10278
917.790.8718 voice
702.271.0496 mobile
212.264.0961 fax
matthew.vois...@usace.army.mil


-Original Message-
From: Glenn Wilson [mailto:wil...@stny.rr.com] 
Sent: Friday, 21 March, 2014 11:32
To: redk...@optonline.net
Cc: Larry Federman; Voisine, Matthew NAN02; Will Raup; Stella Miller; NYSBIRDS-L
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)

I'm curious how many hunters actually know the difference between a crow (fish 
of American) and starling, red-winged BB, Rusty BB, and Grackles. I'd be 
surprised if even 25% of the hunters even try yo differentiate these black 
birds. 


Glenn Wilson
Endicott, NY
www.WilsonsWarbler.com

On Mar 21, 2014, at 11:09 AM, redk...@optonline.net wrote:


Hi everyone:

While the state legislation proposed to stop these kind of shooting events is 
important, laudable and should be strongly supported by the NY conservation 
community, it if was to be signed into law by Governor Cuomoto tomorrow, 
individual hunters could still go out each and every day for seven months (Sept 
1-March 31 as the chart detaling the NYSDEC regs. provided by Lynne Hertzog 
illustrates)  and shoot as many crows as they desire. 

Thus, if we want to provide crows with complete protection we need to have 
state legislation introduced to have American and Fish Crows classified as 
songbirds and to close the hunting season for them or some other alternate 
approach.. 

John Turner 



- Original Message -
From: Larry Federman 
Date: Friday, March 21, 2014 9:49 am
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)
To: Voisine, Matthew NAN02 , Will Raup , Stella Miller , NYSBIRDS-L 
Cc: Voisine, Matthew NAN02 

 Thanks, Matthew,
 It's moot at this point since the Press Release was changed, but 
 the shoot 
 is just outside the NYC watershed.
 
 Larry Federman
 President, Northern Catskills Audubon
 
 
 -Original Message- 
 From: Voisine, Matthew NAN02
 Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 2:18 PM
 To: Will Raup ; Stella Miller ; NYSBIRDS-L
 Cc: Voisine, Matthew NAN02
 Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)
 
 Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
 Caveats: NONE
 
 I picked up on that also but wasn't going to say anything. 
 However it is a 
 huge typo.
 
 However, if the hunt is happening on lands that are owned by 
 NYC, i.e. the 
 reservoirs? The statement is appropriate.
 
 
 Matthew Voisine
 Biologist
 USACE- NY District
 26 Federal Plaza
 Room 2151
 NY, NY 10278
 917.790.8718 voice
 702.271.0496 mobile
 212.264.0961 fax
 matthew.vois...@usace.army.mil
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: bounce-113422972-8614...@list.cornell.edu 
 [mailto:bounce-113422972-8614...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of 
 Will Raup
 Sent: Thursday, 20 March, 2014 14:11
 To: Stella Miller; NYSBIRDS-L
 Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release
 
 Sadly the fact the Senator used the term New York City DEC, 
 means it will 
 be ignored. It should be edited immediately to say New York 
 State DEC, 
 otherwise this will be dismissed by upstate residents who will 
 just view 
 this as another City politician who has no idea what is going 
 on north of 
 New York City.
 
 The statement may seem minor, but many will stop reading after 
 that 
 particular sentence. And you can bet the opposition will use 
 that to their 
 advantage.
 
 Will Raup
 Albany, NY
 
 
 
 
 Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 07:11:02 -0700
 From: stella.mille...@yahoo.com
 Subject: [nysbirds-l] Press release
 To: NYSBirds-L@cornell.edu
 
 
 Attached is the press release regarding the legislation.
 
 
 Thanks,
 
 
 Stella
 
 
 
 
 Conservation is sometimes perceived as stopping everything 
 cold, as holding 
 whooping cranes in higher esteem than people. It is up to 
 science to spread 
 the understanding that the choice is not between wild places or 
 people, it 
 is between a rich or an impoverished existence for Man. Thomas 
 Lovejoy--
 NYSbirds-L List Info:
 Welcome and Basics 
 Rules and Information 
 Subscribe, Configuration and Leave 
 
 Archives:
 The Mail Archive 
 
 Surfbirds 
 BirdingOnThe.Net 
 Please submit your observations to eBird 
 !
 --
 --
 NYSbirds-L List Info:
 Welcome and Basics 
 Rules and Information 
 Subscribe, Configuration and Leave 
 
 Archives:
 The Mail Archive 
 
 Surfbirds 
 BirdingOnThe.Net 
 Please submit your observations to eBird 
 !
 --
 
 Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
 Caveats: NONE
 
 
 
 --
 
 NYSbirds-L List Info:
 http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME
 http

Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)

[Hugh McGuinness]

Sometimes I wonder if birders know what black birds they are looking at:
remember the Boat-tailed Grackle versus Rusty Blackbird discussion of a few
weeks ago. [?]

Hugh


On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 11:38 AM, Voisine, Matthew NAN02 
matthew.vois...@usace.army.mil wrote:

 Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
 Caveats: NONE

 I think this subject is getting out of control but my experience is
 hunters know EXACTLY what the species is that they are hunting. The
 conversation is beginning to criticize hunters unduly.

 Whether they know about something that they are not hunting is another
 story and not really relevant

 Matthew Voisine
 Biologist
 USACE- NY District
 26 Federal Plaza
 Room 2151
 NY, NY 10278
 917.790.8718 voice
 702.271.0496 mobile
 212.264.0961 fax
 matthew.vois...@usace.army.mil


 -Original Message-
 From: Glenn Wilson [mailto:wil...@stny.rr.com]
 Sent: Friday, 21 March, 2014 11:32
 To: redk...@optonline.net
 Cc: Larry Federman; Voisine, Matthew NAN02; Will Raup; Stella Miller;
 NYSBIRDS-L
 Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)

 I'm curious how many hunters actually know the difference between a crow
 (fish of American) and starling, red-winged BB, Rusty BB, and Grackles. I'd
 be surprised if even 25% of the hunters even try yo differentiate these
 black birds.


 Glenn Wilson
 Endicott, NY
 www.WilsonsWarbler.com

 On Mar 21, 2014, at 11:09 AM, redk...@optonline.net wrote:


 Hi everyone:

 While the state legislation proposed to stop these kind of shooting events
 is important, laudable and should be strongly supported by the NY
 conservation community, it if was to be signed into law by Governor Cuomoto
 tomorrow, individual hunters could still go out each and every day for
 seven months (Sept 1-March 31 as the chart detaling the NYSDEC regs.
 provided by Lynne Hertzog illustrates)  and shoot as many crows as they
 desire.

 Thus, if we want to provide crows with complete protection we need to have
 state legislation introduced to have American and Fish Crows classified as
 songbirds and to close the hunting season for them or some other alternate
 approach..

 John Turner



 - Original Message -
 From: Larry Federman
 Date: Friday, March 21, 2014 9:49 am
 Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)
 To: Voisine, Matthew NAN02 , Will Raup , Stella Miller , NYSBIRDS-L
 Cc: Voisine, Matthew NAN02

  Thanks, Matthew,
  It's moot at this point since the Press Release was changed, but
  the shoot
  is just outside the NYC watershed.
 
  Larry Federman
  President, Northern Catskills Audubon
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Voisine, Matthew NAN02
  Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 2:18 PM
  To: Will Raup ; Stella Miller ; NYSBIRDS-L
  Cc: Voisine, Matthew NAN02
  Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)
 
  Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
  Caveats: NONE
 
  I picked up on that also but wasn't going to say anything.
  However it is a
  huge typo.
 
  However, if the hunt is happening on lands that are owned by
  NYC, i.e. the
  reservoirs? The statement is appropriate.
 
 
  Matthew Voisine
  Biologist
  USACE- NY District
  26 Federal Plaza
  Room 2151
  NY, NY 10278
  917.790.8718 voice
  702.271.0496 mobile
  212.264.0961 fax
  matthew.vois...@usace.army.mil
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: bounce-113422972-8614...@list.cornell.edu
  [mailto:bounce-113422972-8614...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of
  Will Raup
  Sent: Thursday, 20 March, 2014 14:11
  To: Stella Miller; NYSBIRDS-L
  Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release
 
  Sadly the fact the Senator used the term New York City DEC,
  means it will
  be ignored. It should be edited immediately to say New York
  State DEC,
  otherwise this will be dismissed by upstate residents who will
  just view
  this as another City politician who has no idea what is going
  on north of
  New York City.
 
  The statement may seem minor, but many will stop reading after
  that
  particular sentence. And you can bet the opposition will use
  that to their
  advantage.
 
  Will Raup
  Albany, NY
 
 
  
 
  Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 07:11:02 -0700
  From: stella.mille...@yahoo.com
  Subject: [nysbirds-l] Press release
  To: NYSBirds-L@cornell.edu
 
 
  Attached is the press release regarding the legislation.
 
 
  Thanks,
 
 
  Stella
 
 
 
 
  Conservation is sometimes perceived as stopping everything
  cold, as holding
  whooping cranes in higher esteem than people. It is up to
  science to spread
  the understanding that the choice is not between wild places or
  people, it
  is between a rich or an impoverished existence for Man. Thomas
  Lovejoy--
  NYSbirds-L List Info:
  Welcome and Basics
  Rules and Information
  Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
 
  Archives:
  The Mail Archive
 
  Surfbirds
  BirdingOnThe.Net
  Please submit your observations to eBird
  !
  --
  --
  NYSbirds-L List Info

Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)

[Alicia Plotkin]

I agree completely with Mr. Voisine.  I don't know anyone who has 
participated in one of these shooting contests, but where I live lots of 
people hunt, and while they generally eat the venison or duck or turkey 
they kill, they can perfectly well afford to go to the supermarket for 
their meat, they don't need to hunt to eat. It's a sport, and they 
definitely prefer getting a 10 or 12 point buck to a 4 point one for the 
bragging rights.  But this doesn't make them ignorant, crass, or 
otherwise violent people - they love the outdoors and they pay attention 
to the birds and animals around them, they just enjoy hunting and I 
don't think anyone should feel morally superior to them unless they are 
a vegetarian.  Moreover, I would match their knowledge of NYS wildlife 
with that of most people on this list.  They don't know the Latin names, 
but they can point out the Scarlet Tanager nest and notice when the 
cuckoos are back since they are out hunting turkeys then.  And please 
note they are not even necessarily members of the NRA or against banning 
assault rifles.

I know this email has gone very far afield from bird talk, but if people 
understand hunters better, then this lobbying will be more likely to 
succeed.  Many, probably most, hunters would not lift a finger in 
support this crow shoot  - they probably won't be willing to speak out 
against it, but neither would they actively support it /- unless/ the 
discussion surrounding the lobbying makes them feel like hunting and 
hunters more generally are being disrespected.  So it would be helpful 
to understand that most hunters are in fact people you would enjoy 
meeting and talking with - and definitely taking a walk in the woods 
with - and your only dispute is with the few people who want to have 
these competitive body count events.  You shouldn't think of those 
people as hunters any more than you would think of the extremely 
competitive people who think nothing of crossing onto private property 
to twitch a rare bird as birders: technically you would be right in each 
case, but that label would be pretty misleading.

Alicia


On 3/21/2014 11:38 AM, Voisine, Matthew NAN02 wrote:
 I think this subject is getting out of control but my experience is hunters 
 know EXACTLY what the species is that they are hunting. The conversation is 
 beginning to criticize hunters unduly.

 Whether they know about something that they are not hunting is another story 
 and not really relevant

 Matthew Voisine
 Biologist
 USACE- NY District
 26 Federal Plaza
 Room 2151
 NY, NY 10278
 917.790.8718 voice
 702.271.0496 mobile
 212.264.0961 fax
 matthew.vois...@usace.army.mil


 -Original Message-
 From: Glenn Wilson [mailto:wil...@stny.rr.com]
 Sent: Friday, 21 March, 2014 11:32
 To:redk...@optonline.net
 Cc: Larry Federman; Voisine, Matthew NAN02; Will Raup; Stella Miller; 
 NYSBIRDS-L
 Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)

 I'm curious how many hunters actually know the difference between a crow 
 (fish of American) and starling, red-winged BB, Rusty BB, and Grackles. I'd 
 be surprised if even 25% of the hunters even try yo differentiate these 
 black birds.


 Glenn Wilson
 Endicott, NY
 www.WilsonsWarbler.com

 On Mar 21, 2014, at 11:09 AM,redk...@optonline.net  wrote:


 Hi everyone:

 While the state legislation proposed to stop these kind of shooting events is 
 important, laudable and should be strongly supported by the NY conservation 
 community, it if was to be signed into law by Governor Cuomoto tomorrow, 
 individual hunters could still go out each and every day for seven months 
 (Sept 1-March 31 as the chart detaling the NYSDEC regs. provided by Lynne 
 Hertzog illustrates)  and shoot as many crows as they desire.

 Thus, if we want to provide crows with complete protection we need to have 
 state legislation introduced to have American and Fish Crows classified as 
 songbirds and to close the hunting season for them or some other alternate 
 approach..

 John Turner



 - Original Message -
 From: Larry Federman
 Date: Friday, March 21, 2014 9:49 am
 Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)
 To: Voisine, Matthew NAN02 , Will Raup , Stella Miller , NYSBIRDS-L
 Cc: Voisine, Matthew NAN02

 Thanks, Matthew,
 It's moot at this point since the Press Release was changed, but
 the shoot
 is just outside the NYC watershed.

 Larry Federman
 President, Northern Catskills Audubon


 -Original Message-
 From: Voisine, Matthew NAN02
 Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 2:18 PM
 To: Will Raup ; Stella Miller ; NYSBIRDS-L
 Cc: Voisine, Matthew NAN02
 Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)

 Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
 Caveats: NONE

 I picked up on that also but wasn't going to say anything.
 However it is a
 huge typo.

 However, if the hunt is happening on lands that are owned by
 NYC, i.e. the
 reservoirs? The statement is appropriate

Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)

[Phil Uruburu]

Well stated Alicia.
Phil Uruburu

Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 21, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Alicia Plotkin t...@zoom-dsl.com wrote:
 
 I agree completely with Mr. Voisine.  I don't know anyone who has 
 participated in one of these shooting contests, but where I live lots of 
 people hunt, and while they generally eat the venison or duck or turkey they 
 kill, they can perfectly well afford to go to the supermarket for their meat, 
 they don't need to hunt to eat.  It's a sport, and they definitely prefer 
 getting a 10 or 12 point buck to a 4 point one for the bragging rights.  But 
 this doesn't make them ignorant, crass, or otherwise violent people - they 
 love the outdoors and they pay attention to the birds and animals around 
 them, they just enjoy hunting and I don't think anyone should feel morally 
 superior to them unless they are a vegetarian.  Moreover, I would match their 
 knowledge of NYS wildlife with that of most people on this list.  They don't 
 know the Latin names, but they can point out the Scarlet Tanager nest and 
 notice when the cuckoos are back since they are out hunting turkeys then.  
 And please note they are not even necessarily members of the NRA or against 
 banning assault rifles.  
 
 I know this email has gone very far afield from bird talk, but if people 
 understand hunters better, then this lobbying will be more likely to succeed. 
  Many, probably most, hunters would not lift a finger in support this crow 
 shoot  - they probably won't be willing to speak out against it, but neither 
 would they actively support it - unless the discussion surrounding the 
 lobbying makes them feel like hunting and hunters more generally are being 
 disrespected.  So it would be helpful to understand that most hunters are in 
 fact people you would enjoy meeting and talking with - and definitely taking 
 a walk in the woods with - and your only dispute is with the few people who 
 want to have these competitive body count events.  You shouldn't think of 
 those people as hunters any more than you would think of the extremely 
 competitive people who think nothing of crossing onto private property to 
 twitch a rare bird as birders: technically you would be right in each case, 
 but that label would be pretty misleading.
 
 Alicia
 
 
 On 3/21/2014 11:38 AM, Voisine, Matthew NAN02 wrote:
 I think this subject is getting out of control but my experience is hunters 
 know EXACTLY what the species is that they are hunting. The conversation is 
 beginning to criticize hunters unduly.
 
 Whether they know about something that they are not hunting is another story 
 and not really relevant
 
 Matthew Voisine
 Biologist
 USACE- NY District
 26 Federal Plaza
 Room 2151
 NY, NY 10278
 917.790.8718 voice
 702.271.0496 mobile
 212.264.0961 fax
 matthew.vois...@usace.army.mil
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Glenn Wilson [mailto:wil...@stny.rr.com] 
 Sent: Friday, 21 March, 2014 11:32
 To: redk...@optonline.net
 Cc: Larry Federman; Voisine, Matthew NAN02; Will Raup; Stella Miller; 
 NYSBIRDS-L
 Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)
 
 I'm curious how many hunters actually know the difference between a crow 
 (fish of American) and starling, red-winged BB, Rusty BB, and Grackles. I'd 
 be surprised if even 25% of the hunters even try yo differentiate these 
 black birds. 
 
 
 Glenn Wilson
 Endicott, NY
 www.WilsonsWarbler.com
 
 On Mar 21, 2014, at 11:09 AM, redk...@optonline.net wrote:
 
 
 Hi everyone:
 
 While the state legislation proposed to stop these kind of shooting events 
 is important, laudable and should be strongly supported by the NY 
 conservation community, it if was to be signed into law by Governor Cuomoto 
 tomorrow, individual hunters could still go out each and every day for seven 
 months (Sept 1-March 31 as the chart detaling the NYSDEC regs. provided by 
 Lynne Hertzog illustrates)  and shoot as many crows as they desire. 
 
 Thus, if we want to provide crows with complete protection we need to have 
 state legislation introduced to have American and Fish Crows classified as 
 songbirds and to close the hunting season for them or some other alternate 
 approach.. 
 
 John Turner 
 
 
 
 - Original Message -
 From: Larry Federman 
 Date: Friday, March 21, 2014 9:49 am
 Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)
 To: Voisine, Matthew NAN02 , Will Raup , Stella Miller , NYSBIRDS-L 
 Cc: Voisine, Matthew NAN02 
 
 Thanks, Matthew,
 It's moot at this point since the Press Release was changed, but 
 the shoot 
 is just outside the NYC watershed.
 
 Larry Federman
 President, Northern Catskills Audubon
 
 
 -Original Message- 
 From: Voisine, Matthew NAN02
 Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 2:18 PM
 To: Will Raup ; Stella Miller ; NYSBIRDS-L
 Cc: Voisine, Matthew NAN02
 Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)
 
 Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
 Caveats: NONE
 
 I picked up

RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)

[Patrick Santinello]

This is just not true.  There have been instances of Whooping Cranes being 
killed by Sandhill Crane hunters and Snow Goose hunters.  Thinking that ALL 
hunters know EXACTLY what species they are shooting at when they pull the 
trigger is simply not true.  There is plenty of history to refute your thought.
Sorry

-Original Message-
From: bounce-113466175-13703...@list.cornell.edu 
[mailto:bounce-113466175-13703...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Voisine, 
Matthew NAN02
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 11:38 AM
To: Glenn Wilson; redk...@optonline.net
Cc: Larry Federman; Will Raup; Stella Miller; NYSBIRDS-L; Voisine, Matthew NAN02
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

I think this subject is getting out of control but my experience is hunters 
know EXACTLY what the species is that they are hunting. The conversation is 
beginning to criticize hunters unduly.

Whether they know about something that they are not hunting is another story 
and not really relevant

Matthew Voisine
Biologist
USACE- NY District
26 Federal Plaza
Room 2151
NY, NY 10278
917.790.8718 voice
702.271.0496 mobile
212.264.0961 fax
matthew.vois...@usace.army.mil


-Original Message-
From: Glenn Wilson [mailto:wil...@stny.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, 21 March, 2014 11:32
To: redk...@optonline.net
Cc: Larry Federman; Voisine, Matthew NAN02; Will Raup; Stella Miller; NYSBIRDS-L
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)

I'm curious how many hunters actually know the difference between a crow (fish 
of American) and starling, red-winged BB, Rusty BB, and Grackles. I'd be 
surprised if even 25% of the hunters even try yo differentiate these black 
birds. 


Glenn Wilson
Endicott, NY
www.WilsonsWarbler.com

On Mar 21, 2014, at 11:09 AM, redk...@optonline.net wrote:


Hi everyone:

While the state legislation proposed to stop these kind of shooting events is 
important, laudable and should be strongly supported by the NY conservation 
community, it if was to be signed into law by Governor Cuomoto tomorrow, 
individual hunters could still go out each and every day for seven months (Sept 
1-March 31 as the chart detaling the NYSDEC regs. provided by Lynne Hertzog 
illustrates)  and shoot as many crows as they desire. 

Thus, if we want to provide crows with complete protection we need to have 
state legislation introduced to have American and Fish Crows classified as 
songbirds and to close the hunting season for them or some other alternate 
approach.. 

John Turner 



- Original Message -
From: Larry Federman
Date: Friday, March 21, 2014 9:49 am
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)
To: Voisine, Matthew NAN02 , Will Raup , Stella Miller , NYSBIRDS-L
Cc: Voisine, Matthew NAN02 

 Thanks, Matthew,
 It's moot at this point since the Press Release was changed, but the 
 shoot is just outside the NYC watershed.
 
 Larry Federman
 President, Northern Catskills Audubon
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Voisine, Matthew NAN02
 Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 2:18 PM
 To: Will Raup ; Stella Miller ; NYSBIRDS-L
 Cc: Voisine, Matthew NAN02
 Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)
 
 Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
 Caveats: NONE
 
 I picked up on that also but wasn't going to say anything. 
 However it is a
 huge typo.
 
 However, if the hunt is happening on lands that are owned by NYC, i.e. 
 the reservoirs? The statement is appropriate.
 
 
 Matthew Voisine
 Biologist
 USACE- NY District
 26 Federal Plaza
 Room 2151
 NY, NY 10278
 917.790.8718 voice
 702.271.0496 mobile
 212.264.0961 fax
 matthew.vois...@usace.army.mil
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: bounce-113422972-8614...@list.cornell.edu 
 [mailto:bounce-113422972-8614...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of 
 Will Raup
 Sent: Thursday, 20 March, 2014 14:11
 To: Stella Miller; NYSBIRDS-L
 Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release
 
 Sadly the fact the Senator used the term New York City DEC, 
 means it will 
 be ignored. It should be edited immediately to say New York 
 State DEC, 
 otherwise this will be dismissed by upstate residents who will 
 just view 
 this as another City politician who has no idea what is going 
 on north of 
 New York City.
 
 The statement may seem minor, but many will stop reading after 
 that 
 particular sentence. And you can bet the opposition will use 
 that to their 
 advantage.
 
 Will Raup
 Albany, NY
 
 
 
 
 Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 07:11:02 -0700
 From: stella.mille...@yahoo.com
 Subject: [nysbirds-l] Press release
 To: NYSBirds-L@cornell.edu
 
 
 Attached is the press release regarding the legislation.
 
 
 Thanks,
 
 
 Stella
 
 
 
 
 Conservation is sometimes perceived as stopping everything 
 cold, as holding 
 whooping cranes in higher esteem than people. It is up to 
 science to spread 
 the understanding that the choice is not between

Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)

[WilliamWatsonSr]

In Western New York Cinnamon Teal is accidental.  About twenty years  ago 
there was a report of about half a dozen at the Iroquois NWR, so I went to  
see these extraordinarily rare life birds. Before I got there they were all 
shot  by hunters.  At the time Art Clark requested one for the Buffalo 
Science  Museum collection.  It could not be done as none of the hunters were  
willing to donate a Cinnamon Teal. Why if birds are illegally shot are the 
birds  the sole property of the hunter that shot them.  Why are the hunters not 
 
fined. Why are they allowed to keep the bird.  If a hunter shoots a newly  
discovered last Ivory-billed Woodpecker (thinking is was a Mallard Duck) 
does  this mean he free sell this rare specimen for millions of dollars  
because he made a stupid mistake???   This makes no sense to  me...   I'm I 
missing something?  
 
Bill Watson
 
 
In a message dated 3/21/2014 2:06:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
patr...@qprocorp.com writes:

This is  just not true.  There have been instances of Whooping Cranes being 
killed  by Sandhill Crane hunters and Snow Goose hunters.  Thinking that 
ALL  hunters know EXACTLY what species they are shooting at when they pull the 
 trigger is simply not true.  There is plenty of history to refute your  
thought.
Sorry

-Original Message-
From:  bounce-113466175-13703...@list.cornell.edu  
[mailto:bounce-113466175-13703...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Voisine,  
Matthew NAN02
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 11:38 AM
To: Glenn Wilson;  redk...@optonline.net
Cc: Larry Federman; Will Raup; Stella Miller;  NYSBIRDS-L; Voisine, Matthew 
NAN02
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l]  Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats:  NONE

I think this subject is getting out of control but my experience  is 
hunters know EXACTLY what the species is that they are hunting. The  
conversation 
is beginning to criticize hunters unduly.

Whether they  know about something that they are not hunting is another 
story and not really  relevant

Matthew Voisine
Biologist
USACE- NY District
26  Federal Plaza
Room 2151
NY, NY 10278
917.790.8718  voice
702.271.0496 mobile
212.264.0961  fax
matthew.vois...@usace.army.mil


-Original  Message-
From: Glenn Wilson [mailto:wil...@stny.rr.com]
Sent:  Friday, 21 March, 2014 11:32
To: redk...@optonline.net
Cc: Larry  Federman; Voisine, Matthew NAN02; Will Raup; Stella Miller;  
NYSBIRDS-L
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release  (UNCLASSIFIED)

I'm curious how many hunters actually know the  difference between a crow 
(fish of American) and starling, red-winged BB,  Rusty BB, and Grackles. I'd 
be surprised if even 25% of the hunters even try  yo differentiate these 
black birds. 


Glenn Wilson
Endicott,  NY
www.WilsonsWarbler.com

On Mar 21, 2014, at 11:09 AM,  redk...@optonline.net wrote:


Hi everyone:

While the  state legislation proposed to stop these kind of shooting events 
is important,  laudable and should be strongly supported by the NY 
conservation community, it  if was to be signed into law by Governor Cuomoto 
tomorrow, individual hunters  could still go out each and every day for seven 
months (Sept 1-March 31 as the  chart detaling the NYSDEC regs. provided by 
Lynne 
Hertzog illustrates)   and shoot as many crows as they desire. 

Thus, if we want to provide  crows with complete protection we need to have 
state legislation introduced to  have American and Fish Crows classified as 
songbirds and to close the hunting  season for them or some other alternate 
approach.. 

John Turner  



- Original Message -
From: Larry Federman
Date:  Friday, March 21, 2014 9:49 am
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l]  Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)
To: Voisine, Matthew NAN02 , Will Raup ,  Stella Miller , NYSBIRDS-L
Cc: Voisine, Matthew NAN02 

  Thanks, Matthew,
 It's moot at this point since the Press Release was  changed, but the 
 shoot is just outside the NYC watershed.
  
 Larry Federman
 President, Northern Catskills Audubon
  
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Voisine, Matthew  NAN02
 Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 2:18 PM
 To: Will Raup ;  Stella Miller ; NYSBIRDS-L
 Cc: Voisine, Matthew NAN02
 Subject:  RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)
 
  Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
 Caveats: NONE
 
 I picked  up on that also but wasn't going to say anything. 
 However it is  a
 huge typo.
 
 However, if the hunt is happening on  lands that are owned by NYC, i.e. 
 the reservoirs? The statement is  appropriate.
 
 
 Matthew Voisine
  Biologist
 USACE- NY District
 26 Federal Plaza
 Room  2151
 NY, NY 10278
 917.790.8718 voice
 702.271.0496  mobile
 212.264.0961 fax
 matthew.vois...@usace.army.mil
  
 
 -Original Message-
 From:  bounce-113422972-8614...@list.cornell.edu 
  [mailto:bounce-113422972-8614...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of 
 Will  Raup
 Sent: Thursday, 20 March, 2014 14:11
 To: Stella Miller;  NYSBIRDS-L
 Subject

RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)

[Voisine, Matthew NAN02]

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

I picked up on that also but wasn't going to say anything. However it is a huge 
"typo". 

However, if the hunt is happening on lands that are owned by NYC, i.e. the 
reservoirs? The statement is appropriate.


Matthew Voisine
Biologist
USACE- NY District
26 Federal Plaza
Room 2151
NY, NY 10278
917.790.8718 voice
702.271.0496 mobile
212.264.0961 fax
matthew.vois...@usace.army.mil


-Original Message-
From: bounce-113422972-8614...@list.cornell.edu 
[mailto:bounce-113422972-8614...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Will Raup
Sent: Thursday, 20 March, 2014 14:11
To: Stella Miller; NYSBIRDS-L
Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release

Sadly the fact the Senator used the term "New York City DEC", means it will be 
ignored.  It should be edited immediately to say New York State DEC, otherwise 
this will be dismissed by upstate residents who will just view this as another 
"City" politician who has no idea what is going on north of New York City.

The statement may seem minor, but many will stop reading after that particular 
sentence.  And you can bet the opposition will use that to their advantage.

Will Raup
Albany, NY 




Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 07:11:02 -0700
From: stella.mille...@yahoo.com
Subject: [nysbirds-l] Press release
To: NYSBirds-L@cornell.edu


Attached is the press release regarding the legislation. 


Thanks, 


Stella
 



"Conservation is sometimes perceived as stopping everything cold, as holding 
whooping cranes in higher esteem than people. It is up to science to spread the 
understanding that the choice is not between wild places or people, it is 
between a rich or an impoverished existence for Man." Thomas Lovejoy
--
NYSbirds-L List Info:
Welcome and Basics   
Rules and Information   
Subscribe, Configuration and Leave 
 
Archives:
The Mail Archive 
 
Surfbirds  
BirdingOnThe.Net  
Please submit your observations to eBird  !
--
--
NYSbirds-L List Info:
Welcome and Basics   
Rules and Information   
Subscribe, Configuration and Leave 
 
Archives:
The Mail Archive 
 
Surfbirds  
BirdingOnThe.Net  
Please submit your observations to eBird  !
--

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE



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RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)

[Voisine, Matthew NAN02]

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

I picked up on that also but wasn't going to say anything. However it is a huge 
typo. 

However, if the hunt is happening on lands that are owned by NYC, i.e. the 
reservoirs? The statement is appropriate.


Matthew Voisine
Biologist
USACE- NY District
26 Federal Plaza
Room 2151
NY, NY 10278
917.790.8718 voice
702.271.0496 mobile
212.264.0961 fax
matthew.vois...@usace.army.mil


-Original Message-
From: bounce-113422972-8614...@list.cornell.edu 
[mailto:bounce-113422972-8614...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Will Raup
Sent: Thursday, 20 March, 2014 14:11
To: Stella Miller; NYSBIRDS-L
Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release

Sadly the fact the Senator used the term New York City DEC, means it will be 
ignored.  It should be edited immediately to say New York State DEC, otherwise 
this will be dismissed by upstate residents who will just view this as another 
City politician who has no idea what is going on north of New York City.

The statement may seem minor, but many will stop reading after that particular 
sentence.  And you can bet the opposition will use that to their advantage.

Will Raup
Albany, NY 




Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 07:11:02 -0700
From: stella.mille...@yahoo.com
Subject: [nysbirds-l] Press release
To: NYSBirds-L@cornell.edu


Attached is the press release regarding the legislation. 


Thanks, 


Stella
 



Conservation is sometimes perceived as stopping everything cold, as holding 
whooping cranes in higher esteem than people. It is up to science to spread the 
understanding that the choice is not between wild places or people, it is 
between a rich or an impoverished existence for Man. Thomas Lovejoy
--
NYSbirds-L List Info:
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Rules and Information http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES  
Subscribe, Configuration and Leave 
http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm 
Archives:
The Mail Archive 
http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l%40cornell.edu/maillist.html 
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Please submit your observations to eBird http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ !
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Please submit your observations to eBird http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ !
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Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE



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