Re: [obc] lack of time trial results on club website
Avery - Some errors in your note. First of all - there are still missing (BAR, result pages for each series, etc.) and broken things (seed sheets not correct for each series, failure to accomodate different distances ridden in WTT Invitational, wrecked up team names, etc.) on the official site. The only sites which currently have the correct material are http://www3.sympatico.ca/celia.mcinnis/tt/2002/ for the open series and http://www3.sympatico.ca/celia.mcinnis/wtt/2002/index.html for the Women's series. And the season is pretty much done by now... Also - the official link to last years results is WRONG. The correct link is http://www.geocities.com/ottawabicycleclub/ . Please ensure that this is corrected. I am asking this as the person who was the official time trial web keeper last year, and the year before, and the year before, ... You can't possibly have expected me to take your offer sent to me on Aug 19 2002 21:21 seriously! It was extremely insulting and showed absolutely no just consideration for one such as myself who had donated more than 1000 hours of time to the club over the last few years! Rod was certainly more pleasant, but equally non-negotiable. I NEVER categorically refused (in writing) to put TT results on the obc site - I merely stated to Rod (in writing) my current PREFERENCE for keeping them on my personal space and having the obcweb link to them. I gave good reasons for this preference, and in fact stated to Rod that if I found the board to be more reasonable in the near future than it had been in the previous half year, I could certainly change my preference. Most of us negotiate on the way to an agreement... Also, I NEVER resigned as TT webmaster - This was a job which I have enjoyed doing for the previous 5 seasons. The TT webmaster job was always independent of the obc webmaster job until I, as the TT webmaster, was asked to ALSO serve as the obc webmaster. In actual fact, I did NOT even resign as obc webmaster - There was a reading comprehension problem of the board members. (I FEEL that I have no choice but to (written in frustration with Rod's refusal to modify his web plans in the light of my well-grounded technical concerns and corrective input - and we can all see the problems which resulted on the current obcweb from this failure to deal with such concerns!) is many steps shy of an affirmation...). Sorry, but I just don't think that dictatorships work - and most especially not amongst volunteers! I'm an intelligent, hard-working, productive individual, a keen cyclist, and, yes, unofficially of course, an anarchist! Celia P.S.: As Bakunin said An Anarchist is one who neither oppresses nor will be oppressed. Avery Burdett wrote: Hi Jackie, Sorry I haven't replied sooner, although I did post a general message in reply to a similar plea by Erika Revesz. (copy below) Jackie MacDonald wrote: I don't understand the problem re. putting the TT results on the OBC website. Surely there should at least be a link to Celia's site. She does a superb job at getting out the results quickly and presenting them in a grand variety of formats. I would like to express my appreciation of the great contribution she is making. The time trials are an important part of the club program and the results should be available on or through the club website. Jackie MacDonald The results are on the OBC website at: http/www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb/open_tt.shtml Celia was asked to help us put the results on the OBC website but categorically refused (in writing). When Celia voluntarily resigned at the beginning of 2002, Rod Plunkett and his brother Randy had to build a new set of TT procedures and pages. This has been a work in progress and there are a lot more enhancements to come but it is now beginning to provide functions not available on the old system. The information on the official club site is up to date and accurate Celia's is not. This is nothing personal against Celia. It's just that these are the facts the Board has had to deal with. Hope this helps to clear the air. Avery ps Some time ago you enquired about my experiences in Spain. I have since put up a private web site for people who have enquired. It's at: http://www.magma.ca/~ocbc/private.html My post to OBC List Aug 21, 2002: I've been very reluctant to get involved in this because this forum is not the place to discuss such disputes, but you Erika, like others, are misinformed. Celia wasn't displaced as webmaster, she resigned long ago. A new webmaster was appointed, long ago. Celia has had the opportunity to assist us in putting up official TT results but has been unable to accept the rules of participation. Even this week, Celia once again rejected any authority the Board would have over work she might do on the club's behalf. There'll be no link to the site or endorsement of it. The information on the site is inaccurate and to make it accurate means
Re: [obc] lack of time trial results on club website
Avery, And, I had also replied to your reply to Erika, yet you have chosen to ignore and continue to present a one-sided view with your re-paste below. Your clearing of the air instead has put up smoke. You have yet to state what you think is wrong with Celia's TT data. Merely stating errors with no indication of what you deem to be errors is an attempt to mislead and discredit. As I have also indicated before, your view of what was a resignation was not without other surrounding issues, and now with Celia's reply, it is for all to see that the board clearly put a volunteer member into such an unpleasant position, working under such unreasonable and unrealistic circumstances, that you have lost internal support from an extremely helpful and knowledgeable volunteer - the board is the less for it. And, Celia did not resign from the TT keeping position, where she shows that she continues to be actively involved in an area that does interest her, offering her services for this desired function, and for which she gets many supportive comments. However, resignation or not, never means that a person can't choose to re-enter a past position, nor does it mean that such a person can't be invited to return to a past position. Continuing to flog this resignation for your convenience is not serving the membership. The information on the official website is not only inaccurate, it is slow. You are wrong, and it is rather easy to demonstrate, as Celia has already indicated. You are reminded that regardless of your attitude toward Celia, toward the information she is providing, or toward your interpretation of control and responsibilities over the volunteers within the club ... - the board is to represent the requirements of the club membership which elect their representatives - the membership, however wrong you think the _many_ are, have indicated their wishes for a link to Celia's sites (as she has provided the addresses below) on a website that is for the service and needs of the membership - the OBC website is not owned by the board - for any functionality that you feel is desired, Celia is very capable and willing, as she has proven multiple times, of adding to her website - the board is not a dictatorship in the 2 year interim between elections - your attitudes and opinions surrounding a link to Celia's site are not attitudes and opinions that are the saving grace of the OBC. The OBC existed long before your ideas came along, with supporting websites and information, and the OBC will also continue to exist long after, even if these attitudes and opinions were to be dropped today. So, you needn't think you are doing the membership any favours with your position Petition ... As you know, a petition has been raised because of the board's stubborn position regarding information requested by the interested members in the OBC. This position is asking for a link as Jackie MacDonald and many others have requested, and does not exclude the board from continuing to try to re-develop a site from scratch, we're simply asking for a link to an alternate view of TT data. As I have pointed out too many times before, but obviously needs repeating: one does not take away existing functionality and replace with a work-under-development. No business would tolerate such behaviour. But, more than this, the board has taken on an activity for which they were not asked or required to do by the membership. Where was this attitude in any election platform? The membership didn't have an issue or concern before, and still do not with Celia's sites. The board is responsible for their own difficult existence because of their stance. The board is spending time and resources on activities for which there are far better things to do. Just think what great things could be accomplished, if the board spent half as much time and energy as they do tackling this matter, on some more useful persuit. Anyone up for brainstorming of ideas for the board to spend an obvious over-abundance of energy? Please continue to let me know if you would like to sign the petition to have the board provide a link to Celia's website. Michael --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Avery - Some errors in your note. First of all - there are still missing (BAR, result pages for each series, etc.) and broken things (seed sheets not correct for each series, failure to accomodate different distances ridden in WTT Invitational, wrecked up team names, etc.) on the official site. The only sites which currently have the correct material are http://www3.sympatico.ca/celia.mcinnis/tt/2002/ for the open series and http://www3.sympatico.ca/celia.mcinnis/wtt/2002/index.html for the Women's series. And the season is pretty much done by now... Also - the official link to last years results is WRONG. The correct link is http://www.geocities.com/ottawabicycleclub/ . Please ensure that this is corrected. I am asking this as the person who was
RE: [obc] lack of time trial results on club website
Michael Coldwell wrote: Avery, And, I had also replied to your reply to Erika, yet you have chosen to ignore and continue to present a one-sided view with your re-paste below. Your clearing of the air instead has put up smoke. The reason I didn't reply is that as a policy I don't reply to obviously hostile and offensive messages, particularly one that contained a false allegation. The latest one follows in the same vein. Private ones received have been on about the same level. I'll not dignify them by replying and be drawn in to a never-ending round of rebuttals. Avery You have yet to state what you think is wrong with Celia's TT data. Merely stating errors with no indication of what you deem to be errors is an attempt to mislead and discredit. As I have also indicated before, your view of what was a resignation was not without other surrounding issues, and now with Celia's reply, it is for all to see that the board clearly put a volunteer member into such an unpleasant position, working under such unreasonable and unrealistic circumstances, that you have lost internal support from an extremely helpful and knowledgeable volunteer - the board is the less for it. And, Celia did not resign from the TT keeping position, where she shows that she continues to be actively involved in an area that does interest her, offering her services for this desired function, and for which she gets many supportive comments. However, resignation or not, never means that a person can't choose to re-enter a past position, nor does it mean that such a person can't be invited to return to a past position. Continuing to flog this resignation for your convenience is not serving the membership. The information on the official website is not only inaccurate, it is slow. You are wrong, and it is rather easy to demonstrate, as Celia has already indicated. You are reminded that regardless of your attitude toward Celia, toward the information she is providing, or toward your interpretation of control and responsibilities over the volunteers within the club ... - the board is to represent the requirements of the club membership which elect their representatives - the membership, however wrong you think the _many_ are, have indicated their wishes for a link to Celia's sites (as she has provided the addresses below) on a website that is for the service and needs of the membership - the OBC website is not owned by the board - for any functionality that you feel is desired, Celia is very capable and willing, as she has proven multiple times, of adding to her website - the board is not a dictatorship in the 2 year interim between elections - your attitudes and opinions surrounding a link to Celia's site are not attitudes and opinions that are the saving grace of the OBC. The OBC existed long before your ideas came along, with supporting websites and information, and the OBC will also continue to exist long after, even if these attitudes and opinions were to be dropped today. So, you needn't think you are doing the membership any favours with your position Petition ... As you know, a petition has been raised because of the board's stubborn position regarding information requested by the interested members in the OBC. This position is asking for a link as Jackie MacDonald and many others have requested, and does not exclude the board from continuing to try to re-develop a site from scratch, we're simply asking for a link to an alternate view of TT data. As I have pointed out too many times before, but obviously needs repeating: one does not take away existing functionality and replace with a work-under-development. No business would tolerate such behaviour. But, more than this, the board has taken on an activity for which they were not asked or required to do by the membership. Where was this attitude in any election platform? The membership didn't have an issue or concern before, and still do not with Celia's sites. The board is responsible for their own difficult existence because of their stance. The board is spending time and resources on activities for which there are far better things to do. Just think what great things could be accomplished, if the board spent half as much time and energy as they do tackling this matter, on some more useful persuit. Anyone up for brainstorming of ideas for the board to spend an obvious over-abundance of energy? Please continue to let me know if you would like to sign the petition to have the board provide a link to Celia's website. Michael --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Avery - Some errors in your note. First of all - there are still missing (BAR, result pages for each series, etc.) and broken things (seed sheets not correct for each series, failure to accomodate different distances ridden in WTT Invitational, wrecked up team names, etc.) on
RE: [obc] lack of time trial results on club website
Hi Jackie, Sorry I haven't replied sooner, although I did post a general message in reply to a similar plea by Erika Revesz. (copy below) Jackie MacDonald wrote: I don't understand the problem re. putting the TT results on the OBC website. Surely there should at least be a link to Celia's site. She does a superb job at getting out the results quickly and presenting them in a grand variety of formats. I would like to express my appreciation of the great contribution she is making. The time trials are an important part of the club program and the results should be available on or through the club website. Jackie MacDonald The results are on the OBC website at: http/www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb/open_tt.shtml Celia was asked to help us put the results on the OBC website but categorically refused (in writing). When Celia voluntarily resigned at the beginning of 2002, Rod Plunkett and his brother Randy had to build a new set of TT procedures and pages. This has been a work in progress and there are a lot more enhancements to come but it is now beginning to provide functions not available on the old system. The information on the official club site is up to date and accurate Celia's is not. This is nothing personal against Celia. It's just that these are the facts the Board has had to deal with. Hope this helps to clear the air. Avery ps Some time ago you enquired about my experiences in Spain. I have since put up a private web site for people who have enquired. It's at: http://www.magma.ca/~ocbc/private.html My post to OBC List Aug 21, 2002: I've been very reluctant to get involved in this because this forum is not the place to discuss such disputes, but you Erika, like others, are misinformed. Celia wasn't displaced as webmaster, she resigned long ago. A new webmaster was appointed, long ago. Celia has had the opportunity to assist us in putting up official TT results but has been unable to accept the rules of participation. Even this week, Celia once again rejected any authority the Board would have over work she might do on the club's behalf. There'll be no link to the site or endorsement of it. The information on the site is inaccurate and to make it accurate means more work for the club. Current efforts to update the official site are made more difficult by Celia's unauthorized interception of results data. There are other factors which I'm not prepared to air here. The Board has discussed this issue to death. The team has moved on to doing other tasks. I suggest any further reasonable comments or questions be addressed privately to Board members. Erika Revesz wrote: I do not understand why Celia was displaced as webmaster. She is a top programmer and one of the best mathematician in her company, where she routinely solves programming problems that her colleagues can't. As an indication of her abilities she was selected to participate at the Institute of Advanced Computer studies in the USA. She certainly knows her stuff, I would be quite happy to have her expertise available to me. She usually posts the OBC TT results as soon as she arrives home from the TT, most of the time delaying supper. There is no way I could do that. Her webpage is very clear, and everything is readily available without delays. I am personally extremely grateful to her for the sacrifice she makes in terms of her time and effort to provide us with this service. Erika Revesz - For list help, please send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Club Office: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (613) 230-1064 Website: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb Newsletter: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aVxiDo.a2i8p1 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
