Re: [oi-dev] Mate 1.14

[Till Wegmüller]

Hi Alexander


Hi, Till.

Do we miss something big from Mate now?




As far as i can see No.
You assessment is pretty much complete.

I would like to have the ZFS integration in Caja as an extension. AFAIK 
extensions are less effort to maintain and can also be used in other 
systems that have the required libs (Linux, FreeBSD). Thus alowing other 
people than us to use ZFS integration and increasing the userbase of 
those pieces of code.


The same is true for the compiz integration into mate-control-center. 
Ubuntu-Mate has an integration. Our old one was from ubuntu too. I was 
however unable to find the newest version of the patch when i looked.


I agree that we should not patch mate to use old tools when we have 
plans to modify the new ones.



Greetings
Till

___
oi-dev mailing list
oi-dev@openindiana.org
http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev

Re: [oi-dev] Mate 1.14

[ken mays via oi-dev]

Set aside some time for a test Live ISO and we can test MATE and all of the 
components.UEFI/BIOS and Intel KMS/DRM are other components to test.~K
 

On Monday, August 1, 2016 1:52 PM, Alexander Pyhalov  wrote:
 

 Alexander Pyhalov писал 01.08.2016 23:43:
>> I have modified version
>> (https://github.com/pyhalov/oi-userland/commit/3108f3427bc2dab346a6c8ca15df30de6210f2bf),
>> which just calls time-admin if it's found (modified more old patch
>> from jds).
>> The issue is that time-admin itself (as part of gnome-system-tools) is
>> gone from Mate.
>> Now they do date and time management using helper in
>> mate-settings-daemon, calls to which are
>> guarded by PoliciKit (which we miss).
> 
> BTW, does someone know why policykit wasn't ported? Was it considered
> needless in presence of proper RBAC?

s/policykit/polkit/g

Messed them up...

BTW, there's polkit in pkgsrc, which seems to build on Solaris/illumos.
---
System Administrator of Southern Federal University Computer Center

___
oi-dev mailing list
oi-dev@openindiana.org
http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev

  ___
oi-dev mailing list
oi-dev@openindiana.org
http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev

Re: [oi-dev] Mate 1.14

[Alexander Pyhalov]

Alexander Pyhalov писал 01.08.2016 23:43:

I have modified version
(https://github.com/pyhalov/oi-userland/commit/3108f3427bc2dab346a6c8ca15df30de6210f2bf),
which just calls time-admin if it's found (modified more old patch
from jds).
The issue is that time-admin itself (as part of gnome-system-tools) is
gone from Mate.
Now they do date and time management using helper in
mate-settings-daemon, calls to which are
guarded by PoliciKit (which we miss).


BTW, does someone know why policykit wasn't ported? Was it considered
needless in presence of proper RBAC?


s/policykit/polkit/g

Messed them up...

BTW, there's polkit in pkgsrc, which seems to build on Solaris/illumos.
---
System Administrator of Southern Federal University Computer Center

___
oi-dev mailing list
oi-dev@openindiana.org
http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev

Re: [oi-dev] Mate 1.14

[Alan Coopersmith]

On 08/ 1/16 01:43 PM, Alexander Pyhalov wrote:

BTW, does someone know why policykit wasn't ported? Was it considered needless
in presence of proper RBAC?


When HAL was integrated into ON, an implementation of the policykit API as a
wrapper around RBAC was included, as you can see in:
https://github.com/illumos/illumos-gate/tree/master/usr/src/lib/policykit

Unfortunately, upstream killed off policykit a few years back in favor of
their new polkit API: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polkit

-alan-

___
oi-dev mailing list
oi-dev@openindiana.org
http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev

Re: [oi-dev] Mate 1.14

[Alexander Pyhalov]

I have modified version
(https://github.com/pyhalov/oi-userland/commit/3108f3427bc2dab346a6c8ca15df30de6210f2bf),
which just calls time-admin if it's found (modified more old patch
from jds).
The issue is that time-admin itself (as part of gnome-system-tools) is
gone from Mate.
Now they do date and time management using helper in
mate-settings-daemon, calls to which are
guarded by PoliciKit (which we miss).


BTW, does someone know why policykit wasn't ported? Was it considered 
needless in presence of proper RBAC?

---
System Administrator of Southern Federal University Computer Center

___
oi-dev mailing list
oi-dev@openindiana.org
http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev

Re: [oi-dev] Mate 1.14

[Alexander Pyhalov]

Alexander Pyhalov писал 01.08.2016 17:38:

Hi, Till.

Do we miss something big from Mate now?

I see the following issues:


One more issue.
I've looked at  
https://github.com/OpenIndiana/oi-userland/blob/oi/hipster/components/desktop/mate/mate-panel/patches/gnome-panel-15-use-vp-time.patch 
(and corresponding gnome patch).

Both are incomplete and wrong.

I have modified version 
(https://github.com/pyhalov/oi-userland/commit/3108f3427bc2dab346a6c8ca15df30de6210f2bf), 
which just calls time-admin if it's found (modified more old patch from 
jds).
The issue is that time-admin itself (as part of gnome-system-tools) is 
gone from Mate.
Now they do date and time management using helper in 
mate-settings-daemon, calls to which are
guarded by PoliciKit (which we miss). Even more, mate-settings-daemon 
date and time helper

doesn't know how to set, for example, time zone on Solaris/illumos.

So, the question is if we a) should avoid delivering gnome-system-tools 
for Mate desktop, remove this patch and say "use mate-terminal, Luke" or

b) patch mate utilities to use gnome-system-tools.

I'd prefer a) as it's more straightforward.


---
System Administrator of Southern Federal University Computer Center


___
oi-dev mailing list
oi-dev@openindiana.org
http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev

Re: [oi-dev] Mate 1.14

[Alexander Pyhalov]

On 08/ 1/16 05:43 PM, Aurélien Larcher wrote:


BTW newer release of compiz only supports MATE, see 0.8.12 series:



Hi.

I mean this patch 
https://github.com/OpenIndiana/oi-userland/blob/oi/hipster/components/desktop/gnome2/gnome-control-center/patches/control-center-03-compiz-integration.patch 
.

Don't think that newer compiz provided mate-control-center integration.
--
Best regards,
Alexander Pyhalov,
system administrator of Southern Federal University IT department

___
oi-dev mailing list
oi-dev@openindiana.org
http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev

[oi-dev] Mate 1.14

[Alexander Pyhalov]

Hi, Till.

Do we miss something big from Mate now?

I see the following issues:
1) Mate-power-manager and battery applet rely on upower, which we don't 
have, so we can't do anything with this for now.
2) I still wait for feedback from yelp testing. When it's tested and 
merged, I'll consider mate almost done.
3) We didn't try to port nautilus zfs integration. I dislike current 
patches, as they use private libzfs interfaces and break now and then. 
In any case, even if we decide to use them as is, they should be 
carefully expected.
4) We didn't port compiz configuration integration to Gnome control 
center, as it relies on gconf now and should be migrated to gsettings. I 
personally don't see this as high priority task.

5) We didn't preserve GUI interface for reboot -e.

I would like to get feedback on yelp before calling for Mate testing...

Before Mate testing I could create mate_install or similar package to 
allow users install it by one command.
However, perhaps, I'll postpone it to the end of Mate testing, so that 
we can immediately produce Mate ISOs for wider testing. I consider we 
should try switching GUI image to Mate before next snapshot.

--
Best regards,
Alexander Pyhalov,
system administrator of Southern Federal University IT department

___
oi-dev mailing list
oi-dev@openindiana.org
http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev

Re: [oi-dev] MATE 1.14 Desktop for OpenIndiana

[ken mays via oi-dev]

Anything in /usr/local/libexec/* must go to /usr/local/lib/*
Ok, I'll build resend out a package with those fixes. The individual libexec 
files are executables so you can also test them individually.
~ Ken
 

On Thursday, May 12, 2016 12:01 PM, Till Wegmüller  
wrote:
 

 Hi

with dconf installed i can run some of the applications from a gnome 
session via console. like mate-about

They also spam the same error nikolam mentioned.

Caja does not want to launch. it runs but does not show up the gui

When i modify the xsession desktop file to feature the fullapth, i can 
launch a mate session.

But all the Icons are missing and some applets that require libexec 
helpers do not run.


Greetings

Toasterson


On 12.05.2016 10:07, Nikola M wrote:

> While in GNOME, mate-calc opens and seems to work, even if saying:
> (mate-calc:7503): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: cannot register existing 
> type 'AtkObject'
> ** (mate-calc:7503): CRITICAL **: atk_object_set_name: assertion 
> 'ATK_IS_OBJECT (accessible)' failed)
> but when launced on gnome, caja died:
>  ld.so.1: caja: fatal: libdconf.so.1: open failed: No such file or 
> directory 


___
oi-dev mailing list
oi-dev@openindiana.org
http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev


  ___
oi-dev mailing list
oi-dev@openindiana.org
http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev

Re: [oi-dev] MATE 1.14 Desktop for OpenIndiana

[Till Wegmüller]

Hi

with dconf installed i can run some of the applications from a gnome 
session via console. like mate-about


They also spam the same error nikolam mentioned.

Caja does not want to launch. it runs but does not show up the gui

When i modify the xsession desktop file to feature the fullapth, i can 
launch a mate session.


But all the Icons are missing and some applets that require libexec 
helpers do not run.



Greetings

Toasterson


On 12.05.2016 10:07, Nikola M wrote:


While in GNOME, mate-calc opens and seems to work, even if saying:
(mate-calc:7503): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: cannot register existing 
type 'AtkObject'
** (mate-calc:7503): CRITICAL **: atk_object_set_name: assertion 
'ATK_IS_OBJECT (accessible)' failed)

but when launced on gnome, caja died:
 ld.so.1: caja: fatal: libdconf.so.1: open failed: No such file or 
directory 



___
oi-dev mailing list
oi-dev@openindiana.org
http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev

Re: [oi-dev] MATE 1.14 Desktop for OpenIndiana

[Nikola M]

On 05/12/16 05:31 AM, benta...@chez.com wrote:

Hi,
  After unconmpressing the archive from / (so location of binaries are in 
/usr/local/bin), most of the binaries complains about not having access to 
libdconf.so.1 which isn't in the archive nor standard repos.
Calculator works fine, though


Please all.
Hit reply in your mail client application when sending replies to 
mailing lists, so they can be inline with message threads. Thanks a lot.


I was uncompressing MATE into /usr/local as Ken suggested yesterday
(http://echelog.com/logs/browse/oi-dev/1462917600)
and I made symlink  for .desktop so that gdm can recognize it:
pfexec ln -s /usr/local/share/xsessions/mate.desktop /usr/share/xsessions/

I also mostly copied changes from, now /usr/local/etc into /etc
and i added /usr/local/bin:/usr/local/bin in my ~/.profile under PATH

But it didn't make me run MATE desktop on login.
It runs mate-session process but that's it.

While in GNOME, mate-calc opens and seems to work, even if saying:
(mate-calc:7503): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: cannot register existing type 
'AtkObject'
** (mate-calc:7503): CRITICAL **: atk_object_set_name: assertion 
'ATK_IS_OBJECT (accessible)' failed)

but when launced on gnome, caja died:
 ld.so.1: caja: fatal: libdconf.so.1: open failed: No such file or 
directory



___
oi-dev mailing list
oi-dev@openindiana.org
http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev

Re: [oi-dev] MATE 1.14 Desktop for OpenIndiana

[bentahyr]

Hi,
 After unconmpressing the archive from / (so location of binaries are in 
/usr/local/bin), most of the binaries complains about not having access to 
libdconf.so.1 which isn't in the archive nor standard repos.
Calculator works fine, though


Best regards.
Ben

On Sun, May 08, 2016 at 03:35:25PM +, ken mays via oi-dev wrote:
>Hello,
>The MATE 1.14 Desktop Environment is the continuation of GNOME 2. It
>provides an intuitive and attractive desktop environment using traditional
>metaphors for Linux and other Unix-like operating systems.
>MATE 1.14 Desktop Environment
> 
>[1]http://mate-desktop.org/blog/2016-04-08-mate-1-14-released/
>About MATE:
>[2]http://mate-desktop.org/blog/2014-02-07-stefano-presents-mate-at-fosdem/
>Ref: [3]http://wiki.openindiana.org/oi/MATE+1.14+Desktop
>Contributed OpenIndiana MATE 1.14 Binaries:
>
> [4]http://dlc.openindiana.org/mate-desktop/oi-mate-1.14-desktop-kmays_20160505.tar.xz
>Mainly for testing, production use, and development. Comes with all the
>bells and whistles...
>Enjoy!,
>Ken
> 
> References
> 
>Visible links
>1. http://mate-desktop.org/blog/2016-04-08-mate-1-14-released/
>2. http://mate-desktop.org/blog/2014-02-07-stefano-presents-mate-at-fosdem/
>3. http://wiki.openindiana.org/oi/MATE+1.14+Desktop
>4. 
> http://dlc.openindiana.org/mate-desktop/oi-mate-1.14-desktop-kmays_20160505.tar.xz


___
oi-dev mailing list
oi-dev@openindiana.org
http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev

Re: [oi-dev] MATE 1.14 Desktop for OpenIndiana

[bentahyr]

Hi 

I' m glad to hear this excellent news  but mate-panel (and quite a few other) 
fails to start due to missing libdconf.so.1 which is not part of the archive 
nor current repos. 

Best regards. 
Ben 

___
oi-dev mailing list
oi-dev@openindiana.org
http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev

Re: [oi-dev] MATE 1.14 Desktop for OpenIndiana

[Nikola M]

On 05/ 8/16 11:57 PM, Nikola M wrote:

On 05/ 8/16 05:35 PM, ken mays via oi-dev wrote:


Hello,

The MATE 1.14 Desktop Environment is the continuation of GNOME 2. It 
provides an intuitive and attractive desktop environment using 
traditional metaphors for Linux and other Unix-like operating systems.


MATE 1.14 Desktop Environment

http://mate-desktop.org/blog/2016-04-08-mate-1-14-released/

About MATE: 
http://mate-desktop.org/blog/2014-02-07-stefano-presents-mate-at-fosdem/


Ref: http://wiki.openindiana.org/oi/MATE+1.14+Desktop

Contributed OpenIndiana MATE 1.14 Binaries: 
http://dlc.openindiana.org/mate-desktop/oi-mate-1.14-desktop-kmays_20160505.tar.xz


Mainly for testing, production use, and development. Comes with all 
the bells and whistles...


Hello, Could archive be accompanied with SHA256SUM file or 
filename.sha256sum on dlc ?


 Oh sorry, I see there is 
http://dlc.openindiana.org/mate-desktop/oi-mate-1.14-desktop-kmays_20160505.tar.xz.sha256 
that I overlooked, and it's 
c2a0526655868132ba00a951fee862716565f87290609dd7602ff919373bbe72




Thank you for providing testing image, before inclusion.
I congratulates on great achievement for future OI.

I suppose MATE inclusion in OI can be made in parall with existing GNOME?
(even if excluding one another, that I hope would not be needed)
So that one wanting to choosing to try MATE can install MATE as 
additional Desktop Environment besides existing GNOME and choose it on 
login.

What do you think?


This question about having MATE available in parallel with existing 
GNOME for at least some time, still stands.
So it can gradually be tried out and selectable in gdm as an desktop 
environment on login, so that many things can be checked for some time 
period, even after initial test period.


___
oi-dev mailing list
oi-dev@openindiana.org
http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev

Re: [oi-dev] MATE 1.14 Desktop for OpenIndiana

[Nikola M]

On 05/ 9/16 07:59 AM, Jim Klimov wrote:

Hi Nikola,

I guess you're late to this particular party - the way to move forward with the 
resources and luggage we have was indeed discussed long ago.


Sorry I haven't seen it mentioned, maybe I missed it,  was here most the 
time for past years.


Thanks for fixing the announcement. Aurélien Larcher - jollyd, jimklimov


On the upside, whatever the naming and distribution of packages and recipes 
across consolidations, OI Hipster and according to plan also its expected 
less-bloody releases (dev, stable) after migration of all userland into one 
recipe repo/consolidation, are upgrade-compatible with the last OI-dev and 
OpenSolaris Indiana.


Testing those updating from /dev to hipster is what I'd like to see, so 
i asked for more people to try it out.


I wasn't expecting that it's updatable from Opensolaris directly, but 
through Openindiana /dev, but if it is too, that's exciting :P

Great times ahead, for sure :)


___
oi-dev mailing list
oi-dev@openindiana.org
http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev

Re: [oi-dev] MATE 1.14 Desktop for OpenIndiana

[Jim Klimov]

9 мая 2016 г. 1:18:57 CEST, Nikola M  пишет:
>On 05/ 9/16 01:09 AM, Aurélien Larcher wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 9, 2016 at 1:02 AM, Nikola M > > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> It is about precising what is named what.
>> Not looking what is active and how long and how.
>>
>> You can't call /dev past development releases a "Legacy" since
>> "Legacy" is reserved for /legacy and they are Opensolaris dev.
>> releases.
>>
>> It's not about what is active or, not, we all know only OI
>hipster
>> is currently active it is simple you can't just decide to change
>> /dev's name because you say so,
>> because you create conflict of naming that creates confusion for
>> users and documentation.
>>
>> I don't find this humorous , I understand you recommend that
>> Openindiana development releases in /dev be called "Vintage
>releases".
>> I don't think that is more appropriate to call it "Old
>Openindiana
>> /dev development releases" and naming it wit any new name
>> including one you proposed, would create confusion and disable
>> /dev renewal.
>>
>>
>> OK. The difference is between names and labels: labels are moving
>targets.
>
>You can't introduce any labels, because they collide with the name as 
>explained or are innacurate. Labels are not needed and are confusing.
>
>Ok, so you will fix it to wording be "Old Openindiana development 
>releases" ?
>And you will fix it that there is no any "Devide" in Openindiana in the
>
>past and now?
>That requires that your announcement be rewritten?
>What do you propose to be exact wording of an announcement then?
>
>I hope we don't need to put this to the vote,
>since it is obvious that /legacy exists and is in use and that
>"Vintage" 
>cna't be used for labeling,
>because it hurts proposed /dev repository renewal project.
>
>
>
>
>
>___
>oi-dev mailing list
>oi-dev@openindiana.org
>http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev

Hi Nikola,

I guess you're late to this particular party - the way to move forward with the 
resources and luggage we have was indeed discussed long ago.

On the upside, whatever the naming and distribution of packages and recipes 
across consolidations, OI Hipster and according to plan also its expected 
less-bloody releases (dev, stable) after migration of all userland into one 
recipe repo/consolidation, are upgrade-compatible with the last OI-dev and 
OpenSolaris Indiana.

Jim 
--
Typos courtesy of K-9 Mail on my Samsung Android

___
oi-dev mailing list
oi-dev@openindiana.org
http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev

Re: [oi-dev] MATE 1.14 Desktop for OpenIndiana

[Nikola M]

On 05/ 9/16 02:45 AM, Aurélien Larcher wrote:



On Mon, May 9, 2016 at 1:18 AM, Nikola M > wrote:




OK. The difference is between names and labels: labels are moving
targets.

You can't introduce any labels, because they collide with the name
as explained or are innacurate. Labels are not needed and are
confusing.

Ok, so you will fix it to wording be "Old Openindiana development
releases" ?
And you will fix it that there is no any "Devide" in Openindiana
in the past and now?
That requires that your announcement be rewritten?
What do you propose to be exact wording of an announcement then?

I hope we don't need to put this to the vote,
since it is obvious that /legacy exists and is in use and that
"Vintage" cna't be used for labeling,
because it hurts proposed /dev repository renewal project.


If you had contributed almost a year ago when I offered you, you would 
not discover right now a page that has been online for months.


Don't misplace process obfuscation for a reason to leave there a bug you 
made and talking about person instead of an issue.


Please fix your issue with your announcement as requested, providing new 
version that is more appropriate, so it could be reviewed.

With what exact words do  you propose to fix your announcement?

Things going on site are very important to be accurate and with no 
misplaced words that confuse people visiting it.


___
oi-dev mailing list
oi-dev@openindiana.org
http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev

Re: [oi-dev] MATE 1.14 Desktop for OpenIndiana

[Aurélien Larcher]

On Mon, May 9, 2016 at 1:18 AM, Nikola M  wrote:

> On 05/ 9/16 01:09 AM, Aurélien Larcher wrote:
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 9, 2016 at 1:02 AM, Nikola M  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> It is about precising what is named what.
>> Not looking what is active and how long and how.
>>
>> You can't call /dev past development releases a "Legacy" since "Legacy"
>> is reserved for /legacy and they are Opensolaris dev. releases.
>>
>> It's not about what is active or, not, we all know only OI hipster is
>> currently active it is simple you can't just decide to change /dev's name
>> because you say so,
>> because you create conflict of naming that creates confusion for users
>> and documentation.
>>
>> I don't find this humorous , I understand you recommend that Openindiana
>> development releases in /dev be called "Vintage releases".
>> I don't think that is more appropriate to call it "Old Openindiana /dev
>> development releases" and naming it wit any new name including one you
>> proposed, would create confusion and disable /dev renewal.
>>
>
> OK. The difference is between names and labels: labels are moving targets.
>
>
> You can't introduce any labels, because they collide with the name as
> explained or are innacurate. Labels are not needed and are confusing.
>
> Ok, so you will fix it to wording be "Old Openindiana development
> releases" ?
> And you will fix it that there is no any "Devide" in Openindiana in the
> past and now?
> That requires that your announcement be rewritten?
> What do you propose to be exact wording of an announcement then?
>
> I hope we don't need to put this to the vote,
> since it is obvious that /legacy exists and is in use and that "Vintage"
> cna't be used for labeling,
> because it hurts proposed /dev repository renewal project.
>

If you had contributed almost a year ago when I offered you, you would not
discover right now a page that has been online for months.



>
>
> ___
> oi-dev mailing list
> oi-dev@openindiana.org
> http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
>



-- 
---
Praise the Caffeine embeddings
___
oi-dev mailing list
oi-dev@openindiana.org
http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev

Re: [oi-dev] MATE 1.14 Desktop for OpenIndiana

[Nikola M]

On 05/ 9/16 01:09 AM, Aurélien Larcher wrote:



On Mon, May 9, 2016 at 1:02 AM, Nikola M > wrote:




It is about precising what is named what.
Not looking what is active and how long and how.

You can't call /dev past development releases a "Legacy" since
"Legacy" is reserved for /legacy and they are Opensolaris dev.
releases.

It's not about what is active or, not, we all know only OI hipster
is currently active it is simple you can't just decide to change
/dev's name because you say so,
because you create conflict of naming that creates confusion for
users and documentation.

I don't find this humorous , I understand you recommend that
Openindiana development releases in /dev be called "Vintage releases".
I don't think that is more appropriate to call it "Old Openindiana
/dev development releases" and naming it wit any new name
including one you proposed, would create confusion and disable
/dev renewal.


OK. The difference is between names and labels: labels are moving targets.


You can't introduce any labels, because they collide with the name as 
explained or are innacurate. Labels are not needed and are confusing.


Ok, so you will fix it to wording be "Old Openindiana development 
releases" ?
And you will fix it that there is no any "Devide" in Openindiana in the 
past and now?

That requires that your announcement be rewritten?
What do you propose to be exact wording of an announcement then?

I hope we don't need to put this to the vote,
since it is obvious that /legacy exists and is in use and that "Vintage" 
cna't be used for labeling,

because it hurts proposed /dev repository renewal project.

___
oi-dev mailing list
oi-dev@openindiana.org
http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev

Re: [oi-dev] MATE 1.14 Desktop for OpenIndiana

[Aurélien Larcher]

On Mon, May 9, 2016 at 1:02 AM, Nikola M  wrote:

> On 05/ 9/16 12:08 AM, Aurélien Larcher wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>> There is nothing like "legacy release". Bad choice if wording.
>> /legacy (pkg.openindiana.org/legacy) holds opensolaris releases up tp
>> snv_134 and that is what Legacy is.
>>
>> You are referring to Openindiana /dev development releases.
>>
>
> Like it or not, something dead for 2 years and unmaintained maybe called
> "legacy" but I can use "vintage" if you like.
> I can also call it "Château OpenIndiana 2013 Vendange Tardive" or
> whatever, does not change the current developments.
>
>
> It is about precising what is named what.
> Not looking what is active and how long and how.
>
> You can't call /dev past development releases a "Legacy" since "Legacy" is
> reserved for /legacy and they are Opensolaris dev. releases.
>
> It's not about what is active or, not, we all know only OI hipster is
> currently active it is simple you can't just decide to change /dev's name
> because you say so,
> because you create conflict of naming that creates confusion for users and
> documentation.
>
> I don't find this humorous , I understand you recommend that Openindiana
> development releases in /dev be called "Vintage releases".
> I don't think that is more appropriate to call it "Old Openindiana /dev
> development releases" and naming it wit any new name including one you
> proposed, would create confusion and disable /dev renewal.
>

OK. The difference is between names and labels: labels are moving targets.


>
>
>
>
>>
>> Openindiana is currently not devided into anything, and there is no
>> devision between openindiana and Openindiana, so it is again bad choice of
>> wording.
>> Since only Openindiana Hipster is updated regularly, it is what is
>> obviously active, so there is nothing like division in Openindiana.
>>
>
> Moving from consolidations to oi-userland, dropping legacy and obsolete
> components, moving away from SUN compilers etc... make 151a and Hipster two
> different animals.
> Additional philosophical questions: if a tree has several branches, is it
> divided ? does your self from 3 years ago identifies with your current self
> ? etc...
>
>
> Openindiana is not divided. That is bad choice of words that sends the
> wrong message.
> Think about what people from outside think when they hear the world
> "Devided", they simply won't get it.
>
> Openindiana /hipster just continued to be active somewhere when OI /dev
> stopped being active, nothing is "devided" in Openindiana, how many
> projects or releases does it have.
>
> This is a practical thing.
> You have cow and a pig.  You decided to call a cow as a pig, because a cow
> didn't give you milk lately.
> That is wrong, because pig is a pig and cow is a cow. (and neither cow is
> a sheep)
> It's an old cow.
>
> You can't call /dev other then "Old development releases", because
> "Legacy" is reserved and used already.
>
>
>
>>
>> I think that plans of putting releases that could land in /dev out of
>> Hipster snapshot (after testing is made with updating) , could be hurt, if
>> you call Openindiana development releases in /dev with the wrong name.
>>
>
> If you want to call "Development", something that is not developed, fair
> enough: come up with a better taxonomy, I have personally no strong opinion.
>
>
> Development releases are both in /dev and /hipster now in past and in the
> future.
>
> I think that it is sane plan to update contents on /dev with new dev
> release, made out of /hipster,
> but you should stop calling /dev with the other name, including docs and
> mentions on site.
>
>
> I propose "vintage", "indie" and "hipster" to stay rock'n roll.
>
>
> Vintage is not good because /dev will stay /dev, yust updated with hipster
> snapshots.
> That would allow that /dev people can see one day update notice.
>
> Vintage as a name dosn't have any use at the moment and it would be too
> complicated to have and maintain transition period and explain that
> "vintage" is a /dev again.
> It is mostly useless from all usage point to make a new name for /dev -
> old development releases.
>
> I already mentioned that it would hurt /dev landing effort and create
> confusion, so please don't re-use "legacy" as a name and remove wrong
> references that include it and do not use proposed "vintage" as it is not
> accurate and also creates confusion.
> Only option that is accurate now and in the past and will be in the future
> is "old development releases" (untill they are renewed).
>
>
>
>>
>> Also if you have a separate announcement not related to the topic can you
>> please make a new topic on ML whe nposting separate topic?
>>
>
> I updated the page to point to MATE's Wiki page according to Ken's message
> so my reply is in no way unrelated.
>
>
> Maybe I wasn't clear enough.
> I was thinking that you should make new topic on mailing list when you
> anounced "roadmap page" update, because it is not directly related to MATE
> 

Re: [oi-dev] MATE 1.14 Desktop for OpenIndiana

[Nikola M]

On 05/ 9/16 12:08 AM, Aurélien Larcher wrote:





There is nothing like "legacy release". Bad choice if wording.
/legacy (pkg.openindiana.org/legacy
) holds opensolaris releases up
tp snv_134 and that is what Legacy is.

You are referring to Openindiana /dev development releases.


Like it or not, something dead for 2 years and unmaintained maybe 
called "legacy" but I can use "vintage" if you like.
I can also call it "Château OpenIndiana 2013 Vendange Tardive" or 
whatever, does not change the current developments.


It is about precising what is named what.
Not looking what is active and how long and how.

You can't call /dev past development releases a "Legacy" since "Legacy" 
is reserved for /legacy and they are Opensolaris dev. releases.


It's not about what is active or, not, we all know only OI hipster is 
currently active it is simple you can't just decide to change /dev's 
name because you say so,
because you create conflict of naming that creates confusion for users 
and documentation.


I don't find this humorous , I understand you recommend that Openindiana 
development releases in /dev be called "Vintage releases".
I don't think that is more appropriate to call it "Old Openindiana /dev 
development releases" and naming it wit any new name including one you 
proposed, would create confusion and disable /dev renewal.





Openindiana is currently not devided into anything, and there is
no devision between openindiana and Openindiana, so it is again
bad choice of wording.
Since only Openindiana Hipster is updated regularly, it is what is
obviously active, so there is nothing like division in Openindiana.


Moving from consolidations to oi-userland, dropping legacy and 
obsolete components, moving away from SUN compilers etc... make 151a 
and Hipster two different animals.
Additional philosophical questions: if a tree has several branches, is 
it divided ? does your self from 3 years ago identifies with your 
current self ? etc...


Openindiana is not divided. That is bad choice of words that sends the 
wrong message.
Think about what people from outside think when they hear the world 
"Devided", they simply won't get it.


Openindiana /hipster just continued to be active somewhere when OI /dev  
stopped being active, nothing is "devided" in Openindiana, how many 
projects or releases does it have.


This is a practical thing.
You have cow and a pig.  You decided to call a cow as a pig, because a 
cow didn't give you milk lately.
That is wrong, because pig is a pig and cow is a cow. (and neither cow 
is a sheep)

It's an old cow.

You can't call /dev other then "Old development releases", because 
"Legacy" is reserved and used already.




I think that plans of putting releases that could land in /dev out
of Hipster snapshot (after testing is made with updating) , could
be hurt, if you call Openindiana development releases in /dev with
the wrong name.


If you want to call "Development", something that is not developed, 
fair enough: come up with a better taxonomy, I have personally no 
strong opinion.


Development releases are both in /dev and /hipster now in past and in 
the future.


I think that it is sane plan to update contents on /dev with new dev 
release, made out of /hipster,
but you should stop calling /dev with the other name, including docs and 
mentions on site.




I propose "vintage", "indie" and "hipster" to stay rock'n roll.


Vintage is not good because /dev will stay /dev, yust updated with 
hipster snapshots.

That would allow that /dev people can see one day update notice.

Vintage as a name dosn't have any use at the moment and it would be too 
complicated to have and maintain transition period and explain that 
"vintage" is a /dev again.
It is mostly useless from all usage point to make a new name for /dev - 
old development releases.


I already mentioned that it would hurt /dev landing effort and create 
confusion, so please don't re-use "legacy" as a name and remove wrong 
references that include it and do not use proposed "vintage" as it is 
not accurate and also creates confusion.
Only option that is accurate now and in the past and will be in the 
future is "old development releases" (untill they are renewed).





Also if you have a separate announcement not related to the topic
can you please make a new topic on ML whe nposting separate topic?


I updated the page to point to MATE's Wiki page according to Ken's 
message so my reply is in no way unrelated.


Maybe I wasn't clear enough.
I was thinking that you should make new topic on mailing list when you 
anounced "roadmap page" update, because it is not directly related to 
MATE test build announcement (clearly not related to Mate).

That way it could be better noticed and not overlooked in different topic.

___
oi-dev mailing list
oi-dev@openindiana.org

Re: [oi-dev] MATE 1.14 Desktop for OpenIndiana

[Aurélien Larcher]

> There is nothing like "legacy release". Bad choice if wording.
> /legacy (pkg.openindiana.org/legacy) holds opensolaris releases up tp
> snv_134 and that is what Legacy is.
>
> You are referring to Openindiana /dev development releases.
>

Like it or not, something dead for 2 years and unmaintained maybe called
"legacy" but I can use "vintage" if you like.
I can also call it "Château OpenIndiana 2013 Vendange Tardive" or whatever,
does not change the current developments.



>
> Openindiana is currently not devided into anything, and there is no
> devision between openindiana and Openindiana, so it is again bad choice of
> wording.
> Since only Openindiana Hipster is updated regularly, it is what is
> obviously active, so there is nothing like division in Openindiana.
>

Moving from consolidations to oi-userland, dropping legacy and obsolete
components, moving away from SUN compilers etc... make 151a and Hipster two
different animals.
Additional philosophical questions: if a tree has several branches, is it
divided ? does your self from 3 years ago identifies with your current self
? etc...


>
> I think that plans of putting releases that could land in /dev out of
> Hipster snapshot (after testing is made with updating) , could be hurt, if
> you call Openindiana development releases in /dev with the wrong name.
>

If you want to call "Development", something that is not developed, fair
enough: come up with a better taxonomy, I have personally no strong opinion.


I propose "vintage", "indie" and "hipster" to stay rock'n roll.


>
> Also if you have a separate announcement not related to the topic can you
> please make a new topic on ML whe nposting separate topic?
>

I updated the page to point to MATE's Wiki page according to Ken's message
so my reply is in no way unrelated.



>
>
> ___
> oi-dev mailing list
> oi-dev@openindiana.org
> http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
>



-- 
---
Praise the Caffeine embeddings
___
oi-dev mailing list
oi-dev@openindiana.org
http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev

Re: [oi-dev] MATE 1.14 Desktop for OpenIndiana

[Nikola M]

On 05/ 8/16 05:35 PM, ken mays via oi-dev wrote:


Hello,

The MATE 1.14 Desktop Environment is the continuation of GNOME 2. It 
provides an intuitive and attractive desktop environment using 
traditional metaphors for Linux and other Unix-like operating systems.


MATE 1.14 Desktop Environment

http://mate-desktop.org/blog/2016-04-08-mate-1-14-released/

About MATE: 
http://mate-desktop.org/blog/2014-02-07-stefano-presents-mate-at-fosdem/


Ref: http://wiki.openindiana.org/oi/MATE+1.14+Desktop

Contributed OpenIndiana MATE 1.14 Binaries: 
http://dlc.openindiana.org/mate-desktop/oi-mate-1.14-desktop-kmays_20160505.tar.xz


Mainly for testing, production use, and development. Comes with all 
the bells and whistles...


Hello, Could archive be accompanied with SHA256SUM file or 
filename.sha256sum on dlc ?


Thank you for providing testing image, before inclusion.
I congratulates on great achievement for future OI.

I suppose MATE inclusion in OI can be made in parall with existing GNOME?
(even if excluding one another, that I hope would not be needed)
So that one wanting to choosing to try MATE can install MATE as 
additional Desktop Environment besides existing GNOME and choose it on 
login.

What do you think?

___
oi-dev mailing list
oi-dev@openindiana.org
http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev

Re: [oi-dev] MATE 1.14 Desktop for OpenIndiana

[Nikola M]

On 05/ 8/16 07:32 PM, Aurélien Larcher wrote:


On Sun, May 8, 2016 at 6:51 PM, Alexander 
> 
wrote:


It looks like a fresh wind blowing in the OI sails again.


Maybe at some point we''ll even get Firefly as default recovery image, 
who knows ;)


What's 'Firefly', that you refer to and what is 'default recovery 
image', you are referring?


___
oi-dev mailing list
oi-dev@openindiana.org
http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev

Re: [oi-dev] MATE 1.14 Desktop for OpenIndiana

[Aurélien Larcher]

>
> Ref: http://wiki.openindiana.org/oi/MATE+1.14+Desktop
>
> Contributed OpenIndiana MATE 1.14 Binaries:
> http://dlc.openindiana.org/mate-desktop/oi-mate-1.14-desktop-kmays_20160505.tar.xz
>
> Mainly for testing, production use, and development. Comes with all the
> bells and whistles...
>
>
I updated the roadmap page: http://www.openindiana.org/overview/roadmap/

Cheers

>
>
> Enjoy!,
> Ken
>
>
> ___
> oi-dev mailing list
> oi-dev@openindiana.org
> http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
>
>
> ___
> oi-dev mailing list
> oi-dev@openindiana.org
> http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
>



-- 
---
Praise the Caffeine embeddings
___
oi-dev mailing list
oi-dev@openindiana.org
http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev

Re: [oi-dev] MATE 1.14 Desktop for OpenIndiana

[Alexander]

It looks like a fresh wind blowing in the OI sails again.
Thanks Ken!

Alex

Sent from my iPhone

> On 08 May 2016, at 18:35, ken mays via oi-dev  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> The MATE 1.14 Desktop Environment is the continuation of GNOME 2. It provides 
> an intuitive and attractive desktop environment using traditional metaphors 
> for Linux and other Unix-like operating systems.
> 
> MATE 1.14 Desktop Environment
> 
> http://mate-desktop.org/blog/2016-04-08-mate-1-14-released/
> 
> About MATE: 
> http://mate-desktop.org/blog/2014-02-07-stefano-presents-mate-at-fosdem/
> 
> Ref: http://wiki.openindiana.org/oi/MATE+1.14+Desktop
> 
> Contributed OpenIndiana MATE 1.14 Binaries: 
> http://dlc.openindiana.org/mate-desktop/oi-mate-1.14-desktop-kmays_20160505.tar.xz
> 
> Mainly for testing, production use, and development. Comes with all the bells 
> and whistles...
> 
> 
> Enjoy!,
> Ken
> 
> 
> ___
> oi-dev mailing list
> oi-dev@openindiana.org
> http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
___
oi-dev mailing list
oi-dev@openindiana.org
http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev

[oi-dev] MATE 1.14 Desktop for OpenIndiana

[ken mays via oi-dev]

 

Hello,
The MATE 1.14 Desktop Environment is the continuation of GNOME 2. It provides 
an intuitive and attractive desktop environment using traditional metaphors for 
Linux and other Unix-like operating systems.
MATE 1.14 Desktop Environment

http://mate-desktop.org/blog/2016-04-08-mate-1-14-released/

About MATE: 
http://mate-desktop.org/blog/2014-02-07-stefano-presents-mate-at-fosdem/
Ref: http://wiki.openindiana.org/oi/MATE+1.14+Desktop
Contributed OpenIndiana MATE 1.14 Binaries: 
http://dlc.openindiana.org/mate-desktop/oi-mate-1.14-desktop-kmays_20160505.tar.xz
Mainly for testing, production use, and development. Comes with all the bells 
and whistles...

Enjoy!,Ken

   ___
oi-dev mailing list
oi-dev@openindiana.org
http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev