Re: [oi-dev] [OpenIndiana-discuss] ANNOUNCE: gcc ported Firefox 37.0b3 now backported to snv_130 x86/x64, Should work on OI/Hipster/S11.[0-3]/S12 etc.
On Thursday 26 March 2015 22.16:04 Andreas Wacknitz wrote: > > So the question is: how can we change the situation? If we would want to involve Companies: Desktop Products that use our Strengths in the Server field? Zone Based VDI for example. A Fast to boot low profile vdi that could run on laptop or even phone hardware(given x86 architecture). Mixed in with a little bit of live migration and X11 remoting magic and you have a nice little product that a company could sell. Other than that: Cooperation with a Desktop Project? KDE has stated interest, but the have no idea how to approach a port to solaris based systems. Their biggest effort for a solaris port was one guy. He did get KDE4 running on S10. Enlightenment seems to have shown interest aswell. On Thursday 26 March 2015 22.27:13 Aurélien Larcher wrote: >Maybe stop having one distribution per 10 users ? (only Linux can afford having distribution because one does not like the default wallpaper) Defragmentation of used Package formats? We not only have a different Package Manager for every Distro, we also have a different kind of Build description format per distro, or per community multi distro project. A Merge of opencsw, SFE, openpkg and all the other multi distro packaging projects? Pre packaged buildzone images(like smartos) or buildzone construction script ? A how to build a buildzone guide without different options to choose? As a Solaris Newbie i got very confused with that guide. A unified buildserver for multiple distros(like OBS)? Greetings Till ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
Re: [oi-dev] [OpenIndiana-discuss] ANNOUNCE: gcc ported Firefox 37.0b3 now backported to snv_130 x86/x64, Should work on OI/Hipster/S11.[0-3]/S12 etc.
> > So the question is: how can we change the situation? Maybe stop having one distribution per 10 users ? (only Linux can afford having distribution because one does not like the default wallpaper) Have people contributing to oi-userland ? Have a crowdfunding thingy ? Rework the website that looks awfully obsolete and let people feed it with information ? Stop bothering with irrelevant details until the thing gets momentum ? Start a "Adopt a package" campaign ? Open build zones to external developers so that they can build and test their code ? (I did it for Enlightenment) Start a cheerleading group to support Alexander, Ken, Jon, Martin and others ? Forget the previous suggestion ? Become a hipster ? Cheers ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
Re: [oi-dev] [OpenIndiana-discuss] ANNOUNCE: gcc ported Firefox 37.0b3 now backported to snv_130 x86/x64, Should work on OI/Hipster/S11.[0-3]/S12 etc.
On Thu, 26 Mar 2015, Andreas Wacknitz wrote: I don’t know how many users we have; especially the number of desktop users seem to be very low (are there more than 50?). What is the source of this estimate? I did not know that we were supposed to register our systems somewhere. Is there a central registration portal for Illumos-based systems? There might be more users for the server oriented distributions but compared to the numbers of BSDs or even Linux the number is for sure marginal. What constitutes a server 'user'? What percentage of Ubuntu Linux users donate money to the Ubuntu project? Do you have a ready-made statistic for that? So the question is: how can we change the situation? Perhaps working on useful code to fill perceived gaps rather than engaging in debate is the solution. Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfrie...@simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer,http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
Re: [oi-dev] [OpenIndiana-discuss] ANNOUNCE: gcc ported Firefox 37.0b3 now backported to snv_130 x86/x64, Should work on OI/Hipster/S11.[0-3]/S12 etc.
> Am 26.03.2015 um 06:27 schrieb Martin Bochnig : > > Hi Nikola, > >> Glad to see you back on the list Martin, you are welcome sharing your views. > > thank you, I'm glad to hear that (although it may not be representative for > this list). > > >> OI is in need of source contributors testing and maintaining. >> I am glad you are using CDDL for code contributions, as per release >> notes and I like your dedication to support SPARC. > > 90% of the work I did since 2013 was closely related to amd64 (x86/x64-only), > rather than sparc. > But probably it will take 25 further years until somebody starts to figure > this out. The situation regarding the OpenSolaris derivatives as I see it is: - there are a few Desktop oriented distributions: openindiana, OpenSXCE, TribbliX, XStreamOS, DilOS (did i forget any?) - there are a few server oriented distributions (OmniOs, SmartOS, Nexentra OS, and some more) To my knowledge the server oriented distributions are being developed by companies, some of them feeding illumos. Despite XStreamOS none of the desktop distributions are supported or even run by companies. All of them share some problems: - publicity (probably >99% of computer users don’t even know that they exist) - missing drivers (especially desktop would need more and better graphics support (eg. Intel and AMD), USB 3.0). - few developers (especially for the desktop derivatives) The companies involved try to enhance or add functionality that their customers need (mostly network card and HBA drivers). Alas they don’t seem to see the desktop valuable and gave up - desktop users should/could use other operating systems. For the server side we have some arguments to attract possible users: advanced technologies like ZFS, SMF, FMA, … But these are not so interesting for desktop users. Here we have somehow a chicken-egg-problem: To attract more users we need wider support for drivers and desktop applications like Firefox and OpenOffice. In order to get this we need either more money (to pay developers) or more voluntary work. But we will only get it when we attract more users and thus more developers... I don’t know how many users we have; especially the number of desktop users seem to be very low (are there more than 50?). There might be more users for the server oriented distributions but compared to the numbers of BSDs or even Linux the number is for sure marginal. (BTW this is an explanation for the low donations Martin gets - there is simply not enough people knowing the desktop distributions (and finding them attractive).) So the question is: how can we change the situation? Andreas ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
[oi-dev] [OpenIndiana-discuss] ANNOUNCE: gcc ported Firefox 37.0b3 now backported to snv_130 x86/x64, Should work on OI/Hipster/S11.[0-3]/S12 etc.
Hi Nikola, > Glad to see you back on the list Martin, you are welcome sharing your views. thank you, I'm glad to hear that (although it may not be representative for this list). > OI is in need of source contributors testing and maintaining. > I am glad you are using CDDL for code contributions, as per release > notes and I like your dedication to support SPARC. 90% of the work I did since 2013 was closely related to amd64 (x86/x64-only), rather than sparc. But probably it will take 25 further years until somebody starts to figure this out. > OI also supports SVR4 .pkg packages so this could be looked at as > rehearsal of making external products to Openindiana/illumos, although > there is also possibility of making IPS repository, accessible using > certificates. It would have been stupid, had Sun completely burnt all bridges of backwards compatibility. But that was before you started using Solaris. You didn't live through those times of IPS "democracy" in 2007. > I want to be able build FF and and other things too, by myself > locally, so I can contribute in area I can. So having binary-only does > not help in that. How shall I understand this? A) You don't want any bins B) You want to contribute C) In order to get into a position to contribute FF related work, rather than contributing and working on the src until it works, you expect _me_ to provide it in fully functional manner!?? Does that make sense? > That said, without source, you can not be sure what is inside, like it > was for chromium port we already had here. How ridiulous is that very "argument", and why won't you stop repeating it time and again?? I) I have the src and I do know what's in. Either folks trust me or the refuse to. II)Let's assume you had the src, it would be the very same. (Except that _you_ would be the one folks needed to be trusting.) III) Let's imagine, I would openly publish the diffs plus explain in detail for weeks what folks have to do in order to get through the build procedure, somebody would upload bins resulting from that, it's still not clear if the resulting bins were generated from 100.0% this exact src, or if big brother has secretly added some hidden functionality. Therefore it would still come down to the original scenario described in I), namely that all end-users (except for the few who built it by themselves _plus_ veryfied millions of lines of code by themselves, which is unlikely) needed to blindly trust the persons who generated bins and provided them. There is also SeaMonkey port to OI that needs maintaining. (I have it somewhere and I _think_ I have seen sources somewhere, let me get back on this) IV) I consider you a friend because you know a few things of what is happening outside (more than most others here). But every time you argue in this way, I get newly disappointed. Are folks too brainwashed or too unaware (to avoid having to say _too misinformed_), in order to comprehend how worthless and ridiculous all these "security concerns" are?? It's just a show to keep folks busy, feeling good and chatting. Who and where is the enemy of privacy? Let's ask google just 5 secs: Your hard drives were RIDDLED with NSA SPYWARE for YEARS http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/02/17/kaspersky_labs_equation_group/ On top of that EACH AND EVERY "officially approved" dsl-modem establishes a 2nd hidden connection to the NSA in the very moment you switch it on. This was found out and documented by some engineers last year, I don't have a detailed link at hand right now. Also have a look at this: NSA Asked Linus Torvalds To Install Backdoors Into GNU ... https://www.google.de/search?q=nsa+torwalds&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=K5QTVd-GAobraO21gZAC And let's continue: Report: NSA paid RSA to make flawed crypto algorithm the default The NSA apparently paid RSA $10M to use Dual EC random number generator. http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/12/report-nsa-paid-rsa-to-make-flawed-crypto-algorithm-the-default/ What's your response to _that_? Well, you encrypt some of your personal emails - but not even create the keys by yourself, but instead use a free public provider for that. Because you trust them, right. But you don't trust me? Well, that's your choice. You don't thank me that I made FF37 run on OI (instead of forcing folks to migrate to OpenSXCE if they want FF37)? That's also your choice. And I noticed that a majority of probably more than 99,98% of OI users subscribed to this list followed you in not thanking me for it (while they unfortunately did not follow you in sending me 10EUR). > There are more people here wanting to build FF on this list and OI and > I would like to collaborate on building FF/SM and chromium with them. > I know there are patches available, that Oracle uses to contribute What is your definition of "contributing"? Expecting me to provide them, while you publish them with big fanfare under your name and folks will congratulat
