Re: [oi-dev] New Project Lead?
On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 1:41 PM, Andrew M. Hettinger ahettin...@prominic.net wrote: +1 I'd like to see this lead by a committee with a written governance structure. That way we don't have to worry about this in the future, and it's not on one persons shoulders. My complaint right now is I don't know who to take things to. I disagree. I've been a long-time Gentoo user (before OpenSolaris and Illumos), and the governance was what destroyed the community after Daniel Robins left. It was so dysfunctional, that people weren't accepting improvements to their portage package manager from other developers due personal disputes and grudges, instead of technical grounds. We really don't need politics in a software project. Besides, what is governance going to do exactly? Anyone can write code and, if not commit it, can run their own branch on github or bitbucket. Any governance that we implement will be fundamentally impotent, unless they concern themselves with matters other than code. As someone earlier mentioned, what we really need is one person who can act as a coordinator or go-between between various projects in OI. We need a network, not a hierarchy (governance implies the latter). If no one else feels up to the task, I'll do it. But, to be honest I was hoping an OI veteran contributor would step up to the task. Andrew Hettinger http://Prominic.NET || ahettin...@prominic.net Tel: 866.339.3169 (toll free) -or- +1.217.356.2888 x.110 (int'l) Fax: 866.372.3356 (toll free) -or- +1.217.356.3356 (int'l) Garrett D'Amore garrett.dam...@dey-sys.com wrote on 09/02/2012 11:46:39 PM: Just a quick note to since I'm the PL for illumos - or I was until recently. We've made some adjustments which basically make that role obsolete by creation of a very simple governance structure that reflects a meritocracy. It is also split between two bodies, one that addresses technology and another that handles non tech issues. About the only real thing my role does now is that as founder I will have a permanent seat on the foundation. Otherwise I am now just another contributor. The point is, I don't think you need to worry frantically about replacing Alasdair with another PL. I would instead work hard to find parties who can help fill other gaps in release engineering, formal QA, and product packaging. I think also a project planner would be helpful to the project, but not one who makes decisions for the project but rather one who helps coordinate the product plans and communicates this eg by producing gantt charts and acting as secretary at team meetings etc. I am not offering to help with any of these as my plate is already overfull. I am just offering my perspective is all. - Garrett Sent from my iPhone On Sep 3, 2012, at 7:22 AM, Nick Zivkovic zivkovic.n...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 9:50 PM, chrisjo...@unixmen.com wrote: Although I am relatively new to the project and it is true I have not contributed any code, I would be prepared to take on the role if there was IMHO, a project lead should be one who contributes code and packages to OI. Otherwise, the project lead is just an expendable figure head with no real purpose. In order to set a release schedule, and so on, you have to be intimately familiar with the code that is being released. Before this discussion devolves into a governance orgy, I think that all we really need is people who write code, and make it publicly available, in a roughly synchronized way. We should have a network of developers. Not a hierarchy. no one else suitable. Just some food for thought I guess. I think the real question is who is going to select the new Project Leader? Even if a new project leader is selected by the community and sworn in, what difference will it make, other than making OI's situation _seem_ less dire? I think a de facto project leader will emerge from the ranks of programmers pretty much automatically. Most likely it will be the programmer that has had or is having the most profound impact on the OI project. But that's just my theory. Regards Chris Jones ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
Re: [oi-dev] New Project Lead?
+1 I think that leader is not a main problem now, but coordinator must be. - Maxim ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
Re: [oi-dev] New Project Lead?
On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 5:44 AM, Joerg Schilling joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de wrote: Maxim Kondratovich maxim@gmail.com wrote: +1 I think that leader is not a main problem now, but coordinator must be. If we like OpenSolaris to survive, we need an OpenSolaris coordinator. The current changes in Illumos are not in the right direction for a universally usable OpenSolaris and there are more challenges like e.g. needed enhancements Just so that I can get a better idea, what changes were made to Illumos that make OpenSolaris less usable? for more recent POSIX standards and a plan to achieve binary compatibility across at least different OpenSolaris forks. So, binaries that run on OI, Delphix, OmniOS, SmartOS, Nexenta, Schiilix, Belenix, etc, are not compatible with each other? How/when did this happen? Jörg -- EMail:jo...@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin j...@cs.tu-berlin.de(uni) joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
Re: [oi-dev] New Project Lead?
Or do you mean that the packages are not compatible? On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 8:33 AM, Nick Zivkovic zivkovic.n...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 5:44 AM, Joerg Schilling joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de wrote: Maxim Kondratovich maxim@gmail.com wrote: +1 I think that leader is not a main problem now, but coordinator must be. If we like OpenSolaris to survive, we need an OpenSolaris coordinator. The current changes in Illumos are not in the right direction for a universally usable OpenSolaris and there are more challenges like e.g. needed enhancements Just so that I can get a better idea, what changes were made to Illumos that make OpenSolaris less usable? for more recent POSIX standards and a plan to achieve binary compatibility across at least different OpenSolaris forks. So, binaries that run on OI, Delphix, OmniOS, SmartOS, Nexenta, Schiilix, Belenix, etc, are not compatible with each other? How/when did this happen? Jörg -- EMail:jo...@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin j...@cs.tu-berlin.de(uni) joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev -- :. Blog: nickziv.wordpress.com Twitter: www.twitter.com/nickziv ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
Re: [oi-dev] New Project Lead?
On Sep 3, 2012, at 6:44 AM, joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) wrote: If we like OpenSolaris to survive, we need an OpenSolaris coordinator. OpenSolaris is long since dead. We are talking about OpenIndiana. Related, but different. ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
Re: [oi-dev] New Project Lead?
On Sep 3, 2012, at 10:24 AM, Joerg Schilling wrote: Looks like you missunderstand the problem and that your understanding is one of the reasons for the existing problems. I'm not so sure that I misunderstand. I understand that OpenSolaris != OpenIndiana. They have a common ancestry, but they are two different things made by two different organizations. OpenSolaris is dead, the organization responsible for it has mostly buried it, and we should only be referring to it in the past-tense. OpenIndiana is very much alive, though perhaps reeling a bit from recent events. If we're talking about the things that people here are working on, we're not talking at all about OpenSolaris (the past) but OpenIndiana (the present future). I understand that English may not be your first language, but precision in this matter is important. Referring to OpenIndiana as OpenSolaris is disrespectful to all those that have carried us forward from the past, IMHO. As mentioned earlier, OpenSolaris needs a sufficient amount of supporters. OpenSolaris only requires flowers on its grave and a weeping widow to come by and visit ever year on the anniversary of its death. ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
Re: [oi-dev] New Project Lead?
On Sep 3, 2012, at 10:46 AM, Joerg Schilling wrote: OpenSolaris is still alive…. /throws some coins in the man's tin cup /backs away slowly and calmly ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
Re: [oi-dev] New Project Lead?
Magnus wrote: OpenSolaris is dead, the organization responsible for it has mostly buried it, and we should only be referring to it in the past-tense. OpenIndiana is very much alive, though perhaps reeling a bit from recent events. If we're talking about the things that people here are working on, we're not talking at all about OpenSolaris (the past) but OpenIndiana (the present future). I agree with you about opensolaris is dead. And openindiana is another thing... But... One interesting thing in openindiana, and is something very interesting for me, is related to how I use it. I come from the Solaris world, running it for 20 years on some dozens (pluriel) of servers (DNS, mail, directory, ... ) and it's my culture. So, having a distribution which, although the differences, has some similarities with Solaris interests me, as complete migration to Openindiana will be much easier. Just for this reason, I'm much more interested on openindiana than the other available Illumos distributions. I could think differently if intended to use openindiana just on my desktop computer or a single home computer. Just my two cents. ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
Re: [oi-dev] New Project Lead?
Depending on viewpoint, OpenSolaris is either alive or dead. However, it is indisputable that OpenSolaris is also ambiguous, and confusing. The distro is dead, but has been resurrected as OpenIndiana. The OS is alive, but it is called Illumos (to avoid ambiguity). Illumos is the only OpenSolaris out there, in the sense that it is an open source descendant of Solaris 10, with extras. I strongly recommend that we use unambiguous terminology from here on. We may all understand what we mean when we use ambiguous terms, but outsiders won't. And we don't have a lot outside contributors. Even if we count the ex-sun talent that contributes to Illumos and its distros, we have a dangerously low bus factor. If we look at Illumos as many projects, instead of one (i.e. DTrace, SMF, Zones, ZFS), we have an _even lower_ bus factor. On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 9:46 AM, Joerg Schilling joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de wrote: Magnus mag...@yonderway.com wrote: On Sep 3, 2012, at 10:24 AM, Joerg Schilling wrote: Looks like you missunderstand the problem and that your understanding is one of the reasons for the existing problems. I'm not so sure that I misunderstand. I understand that OpenSolaris != OpenIndiana. They have a common ancestry, but they are two different things made by two different organizations. OpenSolaris is dead, the organization responsible for it has mostly buried it, and we should only be referring to it in the past-tense. It may be that your mistake is to believe that OpenSolaris is a distro? The real name of that distro was Indiana and Indiana is of course dead. I am however talking about OpenSolaris.and this is a generic OS classification. SchilliX is the oldest distro based in OpenSolaris, Indiana started much later but is also nothing than a distro based on OpenSolaris. OpenSolaris is still alive Jörg -- EMail:jo...@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin j...@cs.tu-berlin.de(uni) joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
Re: [oi-dev] New Project Lead?
Nick Zivkovic zivkovic.n...@gmail.com wrote: Depending on viewpoint, OpenSolaris is either alive or dead. However, it is indisputable that OpenSolaris is also ambiguous, and confusing. The distro is dead, but has been resurrected as OpenIndiana. The OS is alive, but it is called Illumos (to avoid ambiguity). The latter is a false assumption. Illumos is the only OpenSolaris out there, in the sense that it is an open source descendant of Solaris 10, with extras. Also a false assumption. Jörg -- EMail:jo...@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin j...@cs.tu-berlin.de(uni) joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
Re: [oi-dev] New Project Lead?
At Mon, 3 Sep 2012 10:03:59 -0400, Magnus Hedemark wrote: On Sep 3, 2012, at 6:44 AM, joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) wrote: If we like OpenSolaris to survive, we need an OpenSolaris coordinator. OpenSolaris is long since dead. We are talking about OpenIndiana. Related, but different. I think some clarification may be in order here. I suspect Joerg is referencing the OpenSolaris that existed as an umbrella project for some years prior to Sun appropriating that name and rebranding their Indiana project's binary release in order to leverage the growing traction of OpenSolaris, the project. If I recall correctly, there was _much_ anger over this action expressed on the lists at that time, at least by non Sun community members. Especially as the community first learned about this after it had already become a fait accompli and Sun basically thumbed their noses at our consternation. If I recall correctly, and it has been some years so I may not be, more than a couple detractors ended up being banned from the lists. So I think Joerg is accurate in his use of OpenSolaris in this context. And I also suspect his use of it here is to remind us of just what OpenSolaris started out as, and was supposed to be, before Sun Marketroids screwed the community over. I do not have the patience to search the list archives but there was quite some brouhaha so it should not be too difficult for those requiring further validation. Let me also point out that Joerg was on the OpenSolaris Governing Board at various times so he likely knows that of which he speaks. Peace-- Ken ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
Re: [oi-dev] New Project Lead?
Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net wrote: So I think Joerg is accurate in his use of OpenSolaris in this context. And I also suspect his use of it here is to remind us of just what OpenSolaris started out as, and was supposed to be, before Sun Marketroids screwed the community over. Correct, OpenSolaris is an umbrella and we need to find a way to coordinate it's development to keep enough community behind OpenSolaris. Jörg -- EMail:jo...@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin j...@cs.tu-berlin.de(uni) joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
Re: [oi-dev] New Project Lead?
On 3 September 2012 16:34, Joerg Schilling joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de wrote: snip Correct, OpenSolaris is an umbrella and we need to find a way to coordinate it's development to keep enough community behind OpenSolaris. except of course that we cannot and do not own any right to the name Solaris in any way shape or form, hence the reason that we need to refer to the OS/Network as Illumos. for us, OpenSolaris is dead, because we cannot use the name. ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
Re: [oi-dev] New Project Lead?
On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 10:11 AM, Joerg Schilling joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de wrote: Nick Zivkovic zivkovic.n...@gmail.com wrote: Depending on viewpoint, OpenSolaris is either alive or dead. However, it is indisputable that OpenSolaris is also ambiguous, and confusing. The distro is dead, but has been resurrected as OpenIndiana. The OS is alive, but it is called Illumos (to avoid ambiguity). The latter is a false assumption. Illumos is the only OpenSolaris out there, in the sense that it is an open source descendant of Solaris 10, with extras. Also a false assumption. Why is it a false assumption? Are there other projects that forked OpenSolaris? Can you please elaborate on what your contention with illumos is? I am new here, so please forgive my ignorance :) Thanks. Jörg -- EMail:jo...@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin j...@cs.tu-berlin.de(uni) joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
Re: [oi-dev] New Project Lead?
Nick Zivkovic zivkovic.n...@gmail.com wrote: Also a false assumption. Why is it a false assumption? Are there other projects that forked OpenSolaris? Can you please elaborate on what your contention with illumos is? Illumos is one fork off OpenSolaris (ONNV), there are others. Jörg -- EMail:jo...@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin j...@cs.tu-berlin.de(uni) joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
Re: [oi-dev] New Project Lead?
Jonathan Adams t12nsloo...@gmail.com wrote: On 3 September 2012 16:34, Joerg Schilling joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de wrote: snip Correct, OpenSolaris is an umbrella and we need to find a way to coordinate it's development to keep enough community behind OpenSolaris. except of course that we cannot and do not own any right to the name Solaris in any way shape or form, hence the reason that we need to refer to the OS/Network as Illumos. for us, OpenSolaris is dead, because we cannot use the name. Some people created the fork Illumos but failed to get the whole community behind them, so using the name Illumos does not work. On the other side, nobody can forbid us to use OpenSolaris is a descriptive way. Jörg -- EMail:jo...@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin j...@cs.tu-berlin.de(uni) joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
Re: [oi-dev] New Project Lead?
At Mon, 3 Sep 2012 11:13:07 -0500, Nick Zivkovic wrote: On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 10:57 AM, Joerg Schilling joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de wrote: Jonathan Adams t12nsloo...@gmail.com wrote: On 3 September 2012 16:34, Joerg Schilling joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de wrote: snip Correct, OpenSolaris is an umbrella and we need to find a way to coordinate it's development to keep enough community behind OpenSolaris. except of course that we cannot and do not own any right to the name Solaris in any way shape or form, hence the reason that we need to refer to the OS/Network as Illumos. for us, OpenSolaris is dead, because we cannot use the name. Some people created the fork Illumos but failed to get the whole community behind them, so using the name Illumos does not work. Ok. I see. Can you please direct me to these other forks? Hello Nick: I suspect Schillix may be one such reference: http://schillix.berlios.de/ Also, explicit reasons for the lack of acceptance of Illumos by other community members, would be helpful. We can learn from them, and possibly make changes accordingly (open source, etc, etc). I think Joerg touched on this on his email to Alasdair that was inadvertently directed to the list. Check his initial reply in this thread. Peace-- Ken ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
Re: [oi-dev] New Project Lead?
I wish I had known about Schillix-ON earlier. I had just finished upgrading to OI151a. Are Schillix-ON and the OI userland mutually exclusive? Or can we swap the Illumos and Schillix-ON kernels as we please? I hope both kernels can mutually read each others' zfs pools, to avoid unintentional lock-in. It would be beneficial to OI and its users to offer a choice between kernels, if this is at all feasible. It would also be great if Schillix-ON can offer a list of different goals they have from Illumos. How is a potential user/contributor supposed to know which kernel to use, aside from picking the most popular one off hand? I see that Shillix-ON deviates from Illumos since version 147, I wonder if KVM support is planned? But this probably belongs in another list. On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net wrote: At Mon, 3 Sep 2012 11:13:07 -0500, Nick Zivkovic wrote: On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 10:57 AM, Joerg Schilling joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de wrote: Jonathan Adams t12nsloo...@gmail.com wrote: On 3 September 2012 16:34, Joerg Schilling joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de wrote: snip Correct, OpenSolaris is an umbrella and we need to find a way to coordinate it's development to keep enough community behind OpenSolaris. except of course that we cannot and do not own any right to the name Solaris in any way shape or form, hence the reason that we need to refer to the OS/Network as Illumos. for us, OpenSolaris is dead, because we cannot use the name. Some people created the fork Illumos but failed to get the whole community behind them, so using the name Illumos does not work. Ok. I see. Can you please direct me to these other forks? Hello Nick: I suspect Schillix may be one such reference: http://schillix.berlios.de/ Also, explicit reasons for the lack of acceptance of Illumos by other community members, would be helpful. We can learn from them, and possibly make changes accordingly (open source, etc, etc). I think Joerg touched on this on his email to Alasdair that was inadvertently directed to the list. Check his initial reply in this thread. Peace-- Ken ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
Re: [oi-dev] New Project Lead?
Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net wrote: Some people created the fork Illumos but failed to get the whole community behind them, so using the name Illumos does not work. Ok. I see. Can you please direct me to these other forks? Hello Nick: I suspect Schillix may be one such reference: http://schillix.berlios.de/ Just to avoid confusions. SchilliX is a OpenSolaris based distro - the first OpenSolaris based distro that was available. When SchilliX initially came out on June 17th 2005 (3 days after Sun OpenSourced Solaris), it was based on the OpenSolaris base code (ONNV build 17). It demonstrated something that even Sun did not believe at that time: Create a bootable distro by adding only OpenSourced code. At the same time, I published a list of files that were missing from Sun and started to ask Sun to OpenSource - libm - make - SCCS - pkgadd friends remembering Sun to what they promised to do with OpenSolaris in September 2004. The programs from above have been made OSS in December 2006 after remembering Sun many times. After Sun stopped updating ONNV on August 18 2010, SchilliX could no longer be based on ONNV. I created a SchilliX release based on Illumos in September 2010, but as it later turned out that the person behind Illumos was not interested in a community collaboration, I created SchilliX-ON. SchilliX is now a distro that is based on SchilliX-ON. So if you like to see something that is a ONNV fork (like Illumos) you need to check SchilliX-ON. Jörg -- EMail:jo...@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin j...@cs.tu-berlin.de(uni) joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
Re: [oi-dev] New Project Lead?
At Mon, 03 Sep 2012 21:02:23 +0200, Joerg Schilling wrote: Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net wrote: Some people created the fork Illumos but failed to get the whole community behind them, so using the name Illumos does not work. Ok. I see. Can you please direct me to these other forks? Hello Nick: I suspect Schillix may be one such reference: http://schillix.berlios.de/ Just to avoid confusions. SchilliX is a OpenSolaris based distro - the first OpenSolaris based distro that was available. OpenSolaris, as in the project. For those unfamiliar this may be of some interest: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_live_CDs#OpenSolaris-based Regards-- Ken ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
Re: [oi-dev] New Project Lead?
Nick Zivkovic zivkovic.n...@gmail.com wrote: I wish I had known about Schillix-ON earlier. I had just finished upgrading to OI151a. Are Schillix-ON and the OI userland mutually exclusive? Or can we swap the Illumos and Schillix-ON kernels as we please? I hope both kernels can mutually read each others' zfs pools, to avoid unintentional lock-in. If you don't create a ZFS pool that uses the Illumos extensions, there is no problem with exchanging ZFS pools. If Illumos did not introduce incompatible interfaces, you should be able to swap the Illumos base with SchilliX-ON, but note that Illumos removed several packages that are still part of SchilliX-ON (schillix-on did even re-add code that was removed by Sun earlier) and so you may need to adopt what you add If Illumos renamed packages, this may create a problem... SchilliX-ON by default creates Svr5 packages and IPS packages, but the IPS packages have never been tested. It would be beneficial to OI and its users to offer a choice between kernels, if this is at all feasible. It would also be great if Schillix-ON can offer a list of different goals they have from Illumos. How is a potential user/contributor supposed to know which kernel to use, aside from picking the most popular one off hand? I see that Shillix-ON deviates from Illumos since version 147, I wonder if KVM support is planned? SchilliX is not related to Illumos but to the Sun supplied ONNV build 147+. For contributing to SchilliX-ON, the current rules are not to remove code without really good reason and that enhancements should be POSIX compliant and compatible to SVr4. Jörg -- EMail:jo...@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin j...@cs.tu-berlin.de(uni) joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
Re: [oi-dev] New Project Lead?
On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 6:17 PM, Magnus mag...@yonderway.com wrote: On Sep 2, 2012, at 7:14 PM, Nick Zivkovic wrote: Do we have any idea who the new project lead is? Or is it too soon to tell? Are you volunteering for the position? Not unless it involves writing code :) But, seriously, I am willing to help the project by contributing a lot of good code. That's where I will be most effective. ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
Re: [oi-dev] New Project Lead?
Hello All, For my opinion - Project Lead should answer on questions: 1. When new release planed for publishing 2. What components should be fixed/updated for new release 3. Road map - where we go If we have release scheduler with road map - Project Lead should be tracking scheduler and ask some additional leads. We can split big project to some small groups. For example: 1. Text components - we can split by groups 2. X11 components - we can split by groups We can identify list of components for desktop and server sides. And we can identify some persons who will track/leads components. It is my proposal - my vision. If it is possible Alasdair can continue manage OI and we can help him by additional helps. I can help with text components through DilOS userland. At this moment I have checked dilos-userland components by IPS installation to OI with upgrades - all works well for me on ipkg zone. But I have no experience with consolidations updates - I have made clean consolidations for resolve conflicts. I have dilos-userland build system for builds both - IPS and DEB packages. I have updates from userland-gate(Oracle) and builds by gcc44 (with patches for illumos-gate). --- Best regards, Igor Kozhukhov IRC# igork On 9/3/12 3:21 AM, Sašo Kiselkov skiselkov...@gmail.com wrote: On 09/03/2012 01:14 AM, Nick Zivkovic wrote: Do we have any idea who the new project lead is? Or is it too soon to tell? While having a lead is important, I don't think it's as important in the day-to-day operation of the project. A project lead should really be only necessary when high-level either/or decisions are to be made. The rest of the time, I believe rough community consensus should work out just fine to steer the project. So a much more pressing question that needs to be answered, IMO, is to establish some sort of direction in the individual components of OI and delegate responsibility. I think finding people for these smaller components will be much easier. Anyway, just my quick thoughts on the matter... Cheers, -- Saso ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
Re: [oi-dev] New Project Lead?
While having a lead is important, I don't think it's as important in the day-to-day operation of the project. A project lead should really be only necessary when high-level either/or decisions are to be made. The rest of the time, I believe rough community consensus should work out just fine to steer the project. So a much more pressing question that needs to be answered, IMO, is to establish some sort of direction in the individual components of OI and delegate responsibility. I think finding people for these smaller components will be much easier. Anyway, just my quick thoughts on the matter... Cheers, -- Saso I have been in and out of the OpenIndiana community this year and have just returned to OI full-time in recent weeks, so I'm not completely informed on how things have been going, but one of the major points I took away from Alasdair's comments was that we have a number of areas where one person is given control of a component, or falls into it de facto, and then everything bottlenecks with them if they don't keep up. Alasdair mentioned illumos-userland as being the final straw, and it sounds like that is what is happening there (perhaps with some other OI/Illumos politics involved; I am still catching up on this). I have also heard tell that one person is shouldering the responsibility of building all of the prestable releases alone. Getting rid of these types of situations strikes me as being among the higher priorities. Perhaps there are some ways contributors could be more strongly encouraged to commit/publish their work and not sit on it on their personal machines? I might be overlooking something, but much of the work people have done doesn't appear to be documented, nor is there an easily-accessible listing of who is responsible for which parts. The only way I have been able to get this kind of information is by digging through IRC logs, which is not very encouraging to someone who wants to get involved. Hearing things like the fact that someone has built the latest JDS and userland, but hasn't shared it, or even information about how to do it, is really discouraging. Having something front-and-center describing what needs to be done and who to contact about it rather than just a vague suggestion to read the mailing lists or IRC would probably lower the entry barrier for contributing. On that note, I'd be grateful to have some of this explained to me. I've messed around with OI independently for some time, but haven't publicly asked about contributing yet. The drama surrounding Alasdair's resignation happened to coincide with me switching back to OI as my primary desktop platform after a six-month hiatus, and has brought to my attention how much help is needed. I'm not much of a developer, but I can build and test things. I'm particularly interested in details about the process of making an OI binary release from all the individual components and what the current sticking points are. Thanks to all those who have gotten OpenIndiana this far. Ian Johnson ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
Re: [oi-dev] New Project Lead?
Although I am relatively new to the project and it is true I have not contributed any code, I would be prepared to take on the role if there was no one else suitable. Just some food for thought I guess. I think the real question is who is going to select the new Project Leader? Regards Chris Jones ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
Re: [oi-dev] New Project Lead?
On 2012-09-02 22:22, Nick Zivkovic wrote: IMHO, a project lead should be one who contributes code and packages to OI. Otherwise, the project lead is just an expendable figure head with no real purpose. In order to set a release schedule, and so on, you have to be intimately familiar with the code that is being released. Before this discussion devolves into a governance orgy, I think that all we really need is people who write code, and make it publicly available, in a roughly synchronized way. We should have a network of developers. Not a hierarchy. no one else suitable. Just some food for thought I guess. I think the real question is who is going to select the new Project Leader? Even if a new project leader is selected by the community and sworn in, what difference will it make, other than making OI's situation _seem_ less dire? I think a de facto project leader will emerge from the ranks of programmers pretty much automatically. Most likely it will be the programmer that has had or is having the most profound impact on the OI project. But that's just my theory. I agree Nick. It was just a thought. :-) Regards Chris Jones ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
Re: [oi-dev] New Project Lead?
Just a quick note to since I'm the PL for illumos - or I was until recently. We've made some adjustments which basically make that role obsolete by creation of a very simple governance structure that reflects a meritocracy. It is also split between two bodies, one that addresses technology and another that handles non tech issues. About the only real thing my role does now is that as founder I will have a permanent seat on the foundation. Otherwise I am now just another contributor. The point is, I don't think you need to worry frantically about replacing Alasdair with another PL. I would instead work hard to find parties who can help fill other gaps in release engineering, formal QA, and product packaging. I think also a project planner would be helpful to the project, but not one who makes decisions for the project but rather one who helps coordinate the product plans and communicates this eg by producing gantt charts and acting as secretary at team meetings etc. I am not offering to help with any of these as my plate is already overfull. I am just offering my perspective is all. - Garrett Sent from my iPhone On Sep 3, 2012, at 7:22 AM, Nick Zivkovic zivkovic.n...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 9:50 PM, chrisjo...@unixmen.com wrote: Although I am relatively new to the project and it is true I have not contributed any code, I would be prepared to take on the role if there was IMHO, a project lead should be one who contributes code and packages to OI. Otherwise, the project lead is just an expendable figure head with no real purpose. In order to set a release schedule, and so on, you have to be intimately familiar with the code that is being released. Before this discussion devolves into a governance orgy, I think that all we really need is people who write code, and make it publicly available, in a roughly synchronized way. We should have a network of developers. Not a hierarchy. no one else suitable. Just some food for thought I guess. I think the real question is who is going to select the new Project Leader? Even if a new project leader is selected by the community and sworn in, what difference will it make, other than making OI's situation _seem_ less dire? I think a de facto project leader will emerge from the ranks of programmers pretty much automatically. Most likely it will be the programmer that has had or is having the most profound impact on the OI project. But that's just my theory. Regards Chris Jones ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev ___ oi-dev mailing list oi-dev@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
