Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Fixed-field elements mnemonic names translations

[Cerninakova Eva]

Hi Mike,

Many Thanks  for the explanation.

I agree, that better use of the permission description field displaying
instead of/ in addition to the code would  sufficiently solve  the
permission translation issue.

I have opened the wishlist bug regarding fixed field mnemonics translation:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/evergreen/+bug/1759350

Eva




Bez
virů. www.avg.com

<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>






---
Mgr. Eva Cerniňáková
cer...@jabok.cz
Tel. +420 211 222 409

Knihovna Jabok
http:/knihovna.jabok.cz
Tel.  +420 211 222 410
Jabok - Vyšší odborná škola sociálně pedagogická a teologická
Salmovská 8, 120 00 Praha 2


2018-03-27 16:02 GMT+02:00 Mike Rylander :

> Hi Eva,
>
> The current "Audn" translation you found is actually for a field label
> on an IDL class rather than a value in a column.  It's an identical
> string, but is only used to create a translation for the fm_IDL.xml
> file, not other instances of "Audn".  If the new branch goes in, there
> will be a new translation that would be used in the web staff client
> and allows translation there as well.  Hopefully Launchpad will pick
> up the identical string and suggest (or even just use) the translation
> there.
>
> Permission codes are, as you suspected, like fixed field mnemonics in
> that they should not be translated generally.  The UPDATE_COPY_STATUS
> translation you found is actually for the description value associated
> the permission that has the same code.  That translation is safe to
> use.  If we generally made better use of the permission description
> field, displaying that instead of or in addition to the code, I think
> things would be improved.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> --
> Mike Rylander
>  | President
>  | Equinox Open Library Initiative
>  | phone:  1-877-OPEN-ILS (673-6457)
>  | email:  mi...@equinoxinitiative.org
>  | web:  http://equinoxinitiative.org
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 5:34 PM, Cerninakova Eva  wrote:
> > Ben and Mike,
> >
> > Thanks both of you for very useful information.
> >
> > I must admit I have been  little surprised by your answers. I was sure
> it is
> > possible to translate those strings (at least in XUL client)  because I
> > found them in Launchpad translations in fm-idl.dtd template (see e.g.
> > https://translations.launchpad.net/evergreen/
> master/+pots/fm-idl.dtd/cs/+translate?batch=10=all=Audn)
> > . I only asked to make sure how to deal with them  because I suspected
> that
> > the values represent a special codes and could be used by system
> differently
> > than ordinary strings (which turned out to be true).
> > Thanks for pushing new branch - I will open a Launchpad wishlist bug and
> > send the link
> >
> > I have one   more question, that is similar to the previous. I would
> like to
> > translate  Evergreen permissions too. This could be useful for staff at
> > least in situation, when pop-up window appears with important information
> > about insufficient permission etc. I have found those permissions in
> > Launchpad translations too (in this case in db.seed template, see
> > e.g.https://translations.launchpad.net/evergreen/
> master/+pots/db.seed/cs/+translate?batch=10=all&
> search=UPDATE_COPY_STATUS).
> > Again, I was not sure whether to translate this because this looks like
> > "system string" that could be handled specifically by the Evergreen.
> > Is it safe to translate it (may be I should also ask whether permissions
> are
> > translatable at the moment).
> >
> > Thanks for one more answer ;-)
> >
> > Eva
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Mgr. Eva Cerniňáková
> > cer...@jabok.cz
> > Tel. +420 211 222 409
> >
> > Knihovna Jabok
> > http:/knihovna.jabok.cz
> > Tel.  +420 211 222 410
> > Jabok - Vyšší odborná škola sociálně pedagogická a teologická
> > Salmovská 8, 120 00 Praha 2
> >
> >
> > 2018-03-26 21:04 GMT+02:00 Mike Rylander :
> >>
> >> Hi Eva,
> >>
> >> In short, no, you can't do that today because those strings are used
> >> to fetch values from the server.  However, I've pushed a branch to
> >>
> >> http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=working/Evergreen.git;a=
> shortlog;h=refs/heads/user/miker/translate-fixed-field-labels
> >> that will allow you to translate the display labels.
> >>
> >> If you want to open a Launchpad wishlist bug for this, I'll update my
> >> branch and link it there.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> --
> >> Mike Rylander
> >>  | President
> >>  | Equinox Open Library Initiative
> >>  | phone:  1-877-OPEN-ILS (673-6457)
> >>  | email:  mi...@equinoxinitiative.org
> >>  | web:  http://equinoxinitiative.org
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 12:34 PM, Cerninakova Eva 
> wrote:
> >> > Hi all,
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > I have a question about translation of 

Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Fixed-field elements mnemonic names translations

[Mike Rylander]

Hi Eva,

The current "Audn" translation you found is actually for a field label
on an IDL class rather than a value in a column.  It's an identical
string, but is only used to create a translation for the fm_IDL.xml
file, not other instances of "Audn".  If the new branch goes in, there
will be a new translation that would be used in the web staff client
and allows translation there as well.  Hopefully Launchpad will pick
up the identical string and suggest (or even just use) the translation
there.

Permission codes are, as you suspected, like fixed field mnemonics in
that they should not be translated generally.  The UPDATE_COPY_STATUS
translation you found is actually for the description value associated
the permission that has the same code.  That translation is safe to
use.  If we generally made better use of the permission description
field, displaying that instead of or in addition to the code, I think
things would be improved.

Thanks,


--
Mike Rylander
 | President
 | Equinox Open Library Initiative
 | phone:  1-877-OPEN-ILS (673-6457)
 | email:  mi...@equinoxinitiative.org
 | web:  http://equinoxinitiative.org


On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 5:34 PM, Cerninakova Eva  wrote:
> Ben and Mike,
>
> Thanks both of you for very useful information.
>
> I must admit I have been  little surprised by your answers. I was sure it is
> possible to translate those strings (at least in XUL client)  because I
> found them in Launchpad translations in fm-idl.dtd template (see e.g.
> https://translations.launchpad.net/evergreen/master/+pots/fm-idl.dtd/cs/+translate?batch=10=all=Audn)
> . I only asked to make sure how to deal with them  because I suspected that
> the values represent a special codes and could be used by system differently
> than ordinary strings (which turned out to be true).
> Thanks for pushing new branch - I will open a Launchpad wishlist bug and
> send the link
>
> I have one   more question, that is similar to the previous. I would like to
> translate  Evergreen permissions too. This could be useful for staff at
> least in situation, when pop-up window appears with important information
> about insufficient permission etc. I have found those permissions in
> Launchpad translations too (in this case in db.seed template, see
> e.g.https://translations.launchpad.net/evergreen/master/+pots/db.seed/cs/+translate?batch=10=all=UPDATE_COPY_STATUS).
> Again, I was not sure whether to translate this because this looks like
> "system string" that could be handled specifically by the Evergreen.
> Is it safe to translate it (may be I should also ask whether permissions are
> translatable at the moment).
>
> Thanks for one more answer ;-)
>
> Eva
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> Mgr. Eva Cerniňáková
> cer...@jabok.cz
> Tel. +420 211 222 409
>
> Knihovna Jabok
> http:/knihovna.jabok.cz
> Tel.  +420 211 222 410
> Jabok - Vyšší odborná škola sociálně pedagogická a teologická
> Salmovská 8, 120 00 Praha 2
>
>
> 2018-03-26 21:04 GMT+02:00 Mike Rylander :
>>
>> Hi Eva,
>>
>> In short, no, you can't do that today because those strings are used
>> to fetch values from the server.  However, I've pushed a branch to
>>
>> http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=working/Evergreen.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/user/miker/translate-fixed-field-labels
>> that will allow you to translate the display labels.
>>
>> If you want to open a Launchpad wishlist bug for this, I'll update my
>> branch and link it there.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> --
>> Mike Rylander
>>  | President
>>  | Equinox Open Library Initiative
>>  | phone:  1-877-OPEN-ILS (673-6457)
>>  | email:  mi...@equinoxinitiative.org
>>  | web:  http://equinoxinitiative.org
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 12:34 PM, Cerninakova Eva  wrote:
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> >
>> > I have a question about translation of fixed-field elements mnemonic
>> > names
>> > (like BLvl, DtSt, Audn etc, see
>> > https://www.oclc.org/bibformats/en/fixedfield.html.) used in Evergreen
>> > in
>> > the fixed field grid. We have not translated the mnemonic names to Czech
>> > yet
>> > (and as far as a know, neither they have  been  translated to some of
>> > supported Evergreen languages). However,  it turned out eventually,
>> > that
>> > the using of English mnemonic names is not very practical for Czech
>> > catalogers. That is why we would like to translate them to Czech now. At
>> > this point two practical question came up:
>> >
>> > 1. Must translation necessarily consist of only  four characters, as the
>> > original mnemonic names mostly do? Or would it be possible use to use
>> > more
>> > characters for translation, possibly from six to eight (e.g. Ctry
>> > translate
>> > as ZemVyd, or GPub translate as VladPub) without causing a crush of the
>> > fix
>> > field grid interface?
>> >
>> > 2. Is it safe to use a special Czech characters (extended ASCII
>> > characters
>> > like ž, š, č, ř ...) for mnemonic names translation? Or could i cause a
>> > problem?
>> >

Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Fixed-field elements mnemonic names translations

[Cerninakova Eva]

Ben and Mike,

Thanks both of you for very useful information.

I must admit I have been  little surprised by your answers. I was sure it
is possible to translate those strings (at least in XUL client)  because I
found them in Launchpad translations in fm-idl.dtd template (see e.g.
https://translations.launchpad.net/evergreen/master/+pots/fm-idl.dtd/cs/+translate?batch=10=all=Audn)
. I only asked to make sure how to deal with them  because I suspected that
the values represent a special codes and could be used by system
differently than ordinary strings (which turned out to be true).
Thanks for pushing new branch - I will open a Launchpad wishlist bug and
send the link

I have one   more question, that is similar to the previous. I would like
to translate  Evergreen permissions too. This could be useful for staff at
least in situation, when pop-up window appears with important information
about insufficient permission etc. I have found those permissions in
Launchpad translations too (in this case in db.seed template, see e.g.
https://translations.launchpad.net/evergreen/master/+pots/db.seed/cs/+translate?batch=10=all=UPDATE_COPY_STATUS).
Again, I was not sure whether to translate this because this looks like
"system string" that could be handled specifically by the Evergreen.
Is it safe to translate it (may be I should also ask whether permissions
are translatable at the moment).

Thanks for one more answer ;-)

Eva










---
Mgr. Eva Cerniňáková
cer...@jabok.cz
Tel. +420 211 222 409

Knihovna Jabok
http:/knihovna.jabok.cz
Tel.  +420 211 222 410
Jabok - Vyšší odborná škola sociálně pedagogická a teologická
Salmovská 8, 120 00 Praha 2


2018-03-26 21:04 GMT+02:00 Mike Rylander :

> Hi Eva,
>
> In short, no, you can't do that today because those strings are used
> to fetch values from the server.  However, I've pushed a branch to
> http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=working/Evergreen.git;a=
> shortlog;h=refs/heads/user/miker/translate-fixed-field-labels
> that will allow you to translate the display labels.
>
> If you want to open a Launchpad wishlist bug for this, I'll update my
> branch and link it there.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Mike Rylander
>  | President
>  | Equinox Open Library Initiative
>  | phone:  1-877-OPEN-ILS (673-6457)
>  | email:  mi...@equinoxinitiative.org
>  | web:  http://equinoxinitiative.org
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 12:34 PM, Cerninakova Eva  wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> >
> > I have a question about translation of fixed-field elements mnemonic
> names
> > (like BLvl, DtSt, Audn etc, see
> > https://www.oclc.org/bibformats/en/fixedfield.html.) used in Evergreen
> in
> > the fixed field grid. We have not translated the mnemonic names to Czech
> yet
> > (and as far as a know, neither they have  been  translated to some of
> > supported Evergreen languages). However,  it turned out eventually,  that
> > the using of English mnemonic names is not very practical for Czech
> > catalogers. That is why we would like to translate them to Czech now. At
> > this point two practical question came up:
> >
> > 1. Must translation necessarily consist of only  four characters, as the
> > original mnemonic names mostly do? Or would it be possible use to use
> more
> > characters for translation, possibly from six to eight (e.g. Ctry
> translate
> > as ZemVyd, or GPub translate as VladPub) without causing a crush of the
> fix
> > field grid interface?
> >
> > 2. Is it safe to use a special Czech characters (extended ASCII
> characters
> > like ž, š, č, ř ...) for mnemonic names translation? Or could i cause a
> > problem?
> >
> >
> > Thanks in advance for an answer
> >
> > Eva
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Mgr. Eva Cerniňáková
> > cer...@jabok.cz
> > Tel. +420 211 222 409
> >
> > Knihovna Jabok
> > http:/knihovna.jabok.cz
> > Tel.  +420 211 222 410
> > Jabok - Vyšší odborná škola sociálně pedagogická a teologická
> > Salmovská 8, 120 00 Praha 2
> >
>

Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Fixed-field elements mnemonic names translations

[Mike Rylander]

Hi Eva,

In short, no, you can't do that today because those strings are used
to fetch values from the server.  However, I've pushed a branch to
http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=working/Evergreen.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/user/miker/translate-fixed-field-labels
that will allow you to translate the display labels.

If you want to open a Launchpad wishlist bug for this, I'll update my
branch and link it there.

Thanks,

--
Mike Rylander
 | President
 | Equinox Open Library Initiative
 | phone:  1-877-OPEN-ILS (673-6457)
 | email:  mi...@equinoxinitiative.org
 | web:  http://equinoxinitiative.org


On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 12:34 PM, Cerninakova Eva  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
>
> I have a question about translation of fixed-field elements mnemonic names
> (like BLvl, DtSt, Audn etc, see
> https://www.oclc.org/bibformats/en/fixedfield.html.) used in Evergreen in
> the fixed field grid. We have not translated the mnemonic names to Czech yet
> (and as far as a know, neither they have  been  translated to some of
> supported Evergreen languages). However,  it turned out eventually,  that
> the using of English mnemonic names is not very practical for Czech
> catalogers. That is why we would like to translate them to Czech now. At
> this point two practical question came up:
>
> 1. Must translation necessarily consist of only  four characters, as the
> original mnemonic names mostly do? Or would it be possible use to use more
> characters for translation, possibly from six to eight (e.g. Ctry translate
> as ZemVyd, or GPub translate as VladPub) without causing a crush of the fix
> field grid interface?
>
> 2. Is it safe to use a special Czech characters (extended ASCII characters
> like ž, š, č, ř ...) for mnemonic names translation? Or could i cause a
> problem?
>
>
> Thanks in advance for an answer
>
> Eva
>
>
>
> ---
> Mgr. Eva Cerniňáková
> cer...@jabok.cz
> Tel. +420 211 222 409
>
> Knihovna Jabok
> http:/knihovna.jabok.cz
> Tel.  +420 211 222 410
> Jabok - Vyšší odborná škola sociálně pedagogická a teologická
> Salmovská 8, 120 00 Praha 2
>

Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Fixed-field elements mnemonic names translations

[Ben Shum]

Hi Eva,

I'm still studying this to learn how it works in the web client, but I
think that the fixed field labels get defined out of:

Open-ILS/src/templates/staff/cat/share/t_marcedit.tt2
Open-ILS/web/js/ui/default/staff/cat/services/marcedit.js

In the tt2 file, there are plenty of entries like:



And then in the marcedit.js file, I see stuff like:

{{fixedField}}


I think this is how the various fixed fields are generated for the editor tool.

However, what I'm not seeing in here is how we might apply i18n
translations.  It would appear that the {{fixedField}} variable is
used for the  straight away.  And there isn't a
corresponding mapping to bring in a translated value for those labels.
If translation were allowed here, I would think that it should be able
to support longer character strings and Czech characters in the
translated labels.  As long as the only thing translated were the
labels, not the variables behind the scenes.

Still investigating, but could probably use more developer input on this arena.

-- Ben

On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 12:34 PM, Cerninakova Eva  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
>
> I have a question about translation of fixed-field elements mnemonic names
> (like BLvl, DtSt, Audn etc, see
> https://www.oclc.org/bibformats/en/fixedfield.html.) used in Evergreen in
> the fixed field grid. We have not translated the mnemonic names to Czech yet
> (and as far as a know, neither they have  been  translated to some of
> supported Evergreen languages). However,  it turned out eventually,  that
> the using of English mnemonic names is not very practical for Czech
> catalogers. That is why we would like to translate them to Czech now. At
> this point two practical question came up:
>
> 1. Must translation necessarily consist of only  four characters, as the
> original mnemonic names mostly do? Or would it be possible use to use more
> characters for translation, possibly from six to eight (e.g. Ctry translate
> as ZemVyd, or GPub translate as VladPub) without causing a crush of the fix
> field grid interface?
>
> 2. Is it safe to use a special Czech characters (extended ASCII characters
> like ž, š, č, ř ...) for mnemonic names translation? Or could i cause a
> problem?
>
>
> Thanks in advance for an answer
>
> Eva
>
>
>
> ---
> Mgr. Eva Cerniňáková
> cer...@jabok.cz
> Tel. +420 211 222 409
>
> Knihovna Jabok
> http:/knihovna.jabok.cz
> Tel.  +420 211 222 410
> Jabok - Vyšší odborná škola sociálně pedagogická a teologická
> Salmovská 8, 120 00 Praha 2
>



-- 
Benjamin Shum
Evergreener