Philippe AMELINE wrote:
Hi,
I just forgot to tell you that our ontology has only 50 000 terms
(it means less than 50 000 concepts, since a concept can be
represented by several terms). As you may have understood, the
ontology contains only basic concepts, since complex concepts are
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Kaely.Woods at health.gov.au wrote:
Thanks for the elaboration Amnon.
This is quite a different model to the EHR model being developed and
implemented in Australia, Health/Connect,/ which is not designed to
replicate or replace primary clinical systems, but to capture summary
data from
) and have them as an efficient reference doc on the openEHR
website rather than having to wade back through all these posts when we
next need to revisit this topic.
- thomas beale
rob challen wrote:
Yes.. I later though after sending the e-mail that what I'd meant to say
was, of course
ignore
-
If you have any questions about using this list,
please send a message to d.lloyd at openehr.org
; it will take
some experience with implementation before we know what the right
balance is.
- thomas beale
-
If you have any questions about using this list,
please send a message to d.lloyd at openehr.org
and fitness for purpose
which I have raised above, not just how many hours of work are involved...
- thomas
- thomas beale
William Goossen
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Hi Gerard,
Gerard Freriks wrote:
Whay are the arguments for your preference for service models and
generic distrinuted technology?
a) pragmatically: that is the way the world has been going for over 15
years (RPC, Corba, OSF/DCE, webservices, WSDL etc etc)
b) theoretically: the separation
Gerard Freriks wrote:
from the openEHR point of view, the content of a prescription is in
the record.
Correct to a degree.
The record is there to document what has happened. eg a prescription
was written. This has the status of an order TO BE fulfilled.
The notification (in any form)
Williamtfgoossen at cs.com wrote:
Thomas wrote:
William, what is a true XML message? I would love to know. We have
already provided a powerful language and tools for the job you are
doing. Why don't you use them?
- thomas beale
William's answer (rest to follow later, need the message
The openEHR architecture overview document has been significantly
updated; see the second hot link on the home page (http://www.openEHR.org).
- thomas beale
--
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CTO Ocean Informatics (http
Dear all,
just a small request from our sysadmin:
please be careful when hitting reply-all - in particular, do not cc: to
addresses containing -bounces - these are used by the Mailman list
manager to detect faulty email addresses.
thanks,
- thomas beale
Some people building archetypes have had questions over the role of the
different openEHR Entry types, in particular Observation and Evaluation.
A new FAQ page at http://www.openehr.org/FAQs/t_entry_types_FAQ.htm
discusses this issue.
--
*Thomas Beale*
/Chief Technology Officer/ Ocean
JP Freriks wrote:
Hi all,
I've got a practical question: how can I download archetypes from a
repository into the archetype editor?
I've installed TortoiseCVS and created a local file. What CVS ROOT do I
need to specify in the Checkout dialog? (and am I right that this is all
I need to
.
In the new version of the workbench tool, the entire archeytpe
repository will be compiled like a system of object classes, with proper
validation of specialisation relationships.
hope this helps.
- thomas beale
Andrew Patterson wrote:
It is quite different to the actual maximal heart rate that can also be
recorded by using the event model in an OBSERVATION and the mathematical
functions incorporated in the interval functionality.
Hi Heather, thanks for the input. Ignoring the theoretical heart
-clinical mailing list
openEHR-clinical at openehr.org
http://lists.chime.ucl.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/openehr-clinical
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please change your address book entry for me to
Thomas.Beale at OceanInformatics.com
*Thomas Beale*
/Chief Technology Officer/ Ocean Informatics
http
This page includes some points of comparison -
http://www.openehr.org/206-OE.html
- thomas beale
Ricardo Jo?o Cruz Correia wrote:
Dear all,
Are there any documents comparing the Reference Information Models of
HL7, openEHR and CEN/TC 251 ?
Best regards,
Ricardo Correia
Gerard Freriks wrote:
My try.
Template: It is the interoperable information part of a contract
between two or more communicating actors.
Gerard,
that is a very nice functional definition. In some cases, the actors are
the GUI application user, and other users, whose previously persisted
that are known to work in software and known to work for
archetypes.
So one question is: what is the intended use of the new ISO date types
(conversion, or to be the 'real thing')? Secondly, how will CEN EN13606
be validated with a new set of data types?
- thomas beale
Tim Churches wrote:
Where can I read about that evidence and the results of that testing,
Thomas? That was my point. Perhaps I am looking in the wrong places? I
Tim,
you are asking for papers about systems that have been fully engineered,
deployed, and run long enough to gather statistics
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Nandalal Gunaratne wrote:
--- Tim Churches tchur at optushome.com.au wrote:
The real problem maybe that there is no real way of
evaluating and comparing software that is acceptable.
Nandalal
I don't really agree with that. You can objectively check things like:
- it installs and runs
-
Stef Verlinden wrote:
So I guess I have several questions, which I try to separate.
The first part is: how/where can we add the accessory data that
necessary to establish data quality. As Thomas pointed out, most of
these things are already recorded. In would like to have clarity on
Dipak,
I should point out that I am not aiming for any heavy debate of this
right now - it's been done before and is a serious topic. On the other
hand we have all learned more in different areas over the last few
years, so it's interesting to bring up a few points and see if anyone's
Stef Verlinden wrote:
My additional question is that I want to store that 'local' quality
assessment outcome somewhere as well. Therefore my question is, can
we add a generic data quality marker/label, which is adapted for to
local situation by specializing that archetype.
Stef, the
Stef Verlinden wrote:
Op 20-jul-2007, om 12:26 heeft Thomas Beale het volgende geschreven:
The thing I'm struggling with is 3 things:
- were to store those local protocols/ criteria. Do we need to set up
a separate system/ database for that or can we store them in a
'localized' archetype
Dear all,
the openEHR server (including the Subversion server), will be taken down
to be moved to a new UPS-capable rack on Thursday 2 August 2007 between
08:00 and 09:00 (London, currently on GMT+1), services should be
considered At risk until 10:00.
thanks for your understanding.
- thomas
these archetypes will be
connected into higher level archetypes by slots, in the normal way.
As such there is currently only one approach.
- thomas beale
Andrew Patterson wrote:
I have noticed a large number of CLUSTER archetypes
in the openehr archetype sample repository. I was wondering
that archetypes are actively being created by clinical groups, that can
be directly used by EHR and other systems, as evidence that the openEHR
approach is working.
- thomas beale
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http
Ian McNicoll wrote:
I am somewhat confused by the current implementation for archetype
slots in the LiU and Ocean editors.
Whilst within SECTION archetypes, the full range of archetype slots
can be embedded (OBSERVATION,EVALUATION.ACTION ?), within, for
example, an EVALUATION archetype
Stef Verlinden wrote:
Thanks for your clear explanation but it doesn't provide the clue I'm
looking for. Since I lack a most of the technical background I can
only approach it from a clinical point of view.
Andrew Patterson's understanding is correct - usually you only archetype
the
), all the attributes from the openEHR reference model
are assumed to be there. The archetype only needs to mention those
attributes that make sense to constrain ahead of time - typically this
does not include date/time attributes or other specifics of locale or
context.
- thomas beale
Erik Sundvall wrote:
Hi!
On 5/22/07, Heather Leslie heather.leslie at oceaninformatics.biz wrote:
Perhaps the apparently 'hidden' reference model stuff should perhaps
even be displayed, in an uneditable format, in the Archetype Editor and
Template Designer - to make this design process
?
An Observation and an Evaluation (if both are needed) can be recorded in
the same Composition.
- thomas beale
?
Andrew
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*Thomas
or similar terminologies.
- thomas beale
Andrew Patterson wrote:
I am making some Snomed bindings for some sample
archetypes but am having some meta-level problems.
An example will probably help -
Say I want to snomed code the urinalysis archetype. It
lists a large set of potential measurements
AThomas Beale wrote:
they are working on the syntax, although it seems relatively solid at
the moment. We are also working collectively within the NHS-sponsored
Technical Advisory Group (TAG) on this. David Markwell is currently
authoring an in-depth report on how to bind such exprssions to
DV_TEXT is allowed.
this will change with ADL 1.5, which adds a mechanism to remove
subtypes. The following syntax is proposed.
value matches {
DV_TEXT matches { ... }
DV_CODED_TEXT occurrences matches {0}
}
- thomas beale
, which are
independent of the vendor product trying to extract data from the GP
dekstop.
- thomas beale
[this is a repost of an announcement made a week ago, for those on the clinical
list but not on the announce list]
from Prof David Ingram, CHIME department, University College London:
I am delighted to announce that Dr Tony Shannon has accepted an
invitation, on behalf of the openEHR
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on the open
specifications (i.e. some kind of standard), not because they are open
source.
- thomas beale
William E Hammond wrote:
Thanks to Bert in bring this article to our attention. Although I haven't
read every word, I did not see the reference that HL7 was too expensive.
To my
Stef Verlinden wrote:
Good to hear. If we can be of any help, please let us (I trust I can
speak for all the openEHR users) know.
I'm aware of the huge task that's on your (and Sam's, Dipak's and all
the others I forget to mention) shoulders and if we can help you to
make your 'flight'
this expertise does not
existthey do not see the differences between GOOD QUALITY data
elements and what is the power of STANDARDSthat is the strenghts of
OpenEHR.
exactly...
- thomas beale
*
*
that).
it will only be different if it is manually modelled to be that way. But
if we start using a common formalism to do the modelling and generate
message-related formats, just as we already generate other technical
forms, then this problem will go away.
- thomas beale
Stef Verlinden wrote:
Op 3-dec-2008, om 22:21 heeft Thomas Beale het volgende geschreven:
Hm...you will definitely run into problems with UML, due to the
weaknesses around constraints in general, and also the orientation to
class models rather than object models. They have never really
Gerard Freriks wrote:
Thomas,
What gets modeled where?
I would argue that since OGTT is a very common test, it is an archetype
which it is - see the glucose result archetype. For the sports ones, I
would expect to see some archetypes as well, but I know very little
about this part of
'opinion' as well. I suspect the debate will never
end. Some things we do have to live with and move on
- thomas beale
*
of cuff on a certain
kind of patient - they now have only the pre-digested opinion of the
original person.
- thomas beale
, but why
not make it an openEHR one with the required data types and so on?
- thomas beale
*
with updates for these pages.
- thomas beale
- archetype designers by definition have agreed
on the appropriateness of any given concept when they did the binding -
across languages and cultures. If this can't be agreed, then it means
that there is disagreement on what real thing the code refers to.
- thomas beale
Gerard Freriks wrote:
Hello
that
this throws up is how querying should react.
- thomas beale
*
*
unneeded when we accept my
view.
*Gerard,
what would we do with urinalysis ordinals then: trace, +, ++, +++, etc?
- thomas beale
*
Gerard Freriks wrote:
Thomas,
There is an attribute in Observations where we can 'store' the result.
Attached to it there is a Modifier Attribute that indicates whether it
is a Quantitative result or a Semi-Quantitative or Qualitative result.
I am not sure what attribute you are talking
supply a means of defining the bands of terms like 'low', 'normal',
'high' etc, but if you want to use them as diagnostic terms, then they
need to be coded and bound to things like Snomed::hypertension etc.
We have to remain ever-vigilant to the intricacies of natural language!
- thomas beale
on a wiki page if there is interest.
- thomas beale
Stef Verlinden wrote:
Question is, is a (part of) the Barthel index score: (needs) little
help (to be mobile) (see my response to Heathers mail as well) an
observation or an interpretation/ evaluation. I would say it's an
evaluation.
*could 10 randomaly chosen occupational therapists
Stef Verlinden wrote:
Question is, is a (part of) the Barthel index score: (needs) little
help (to be mobile) (see my response to Heathers mail as well) an
observation or an interpretation/ evaluation. I would say it's an
evaluation.
*could 10 randomaly chosen occupational therapists
what was said in a narrative form.
Up to clinical people to decide what they want!
- thomas beale
.
2. record what the patient says using the 'patient story' archetype.
This just records what was said in a narrative form.
Up to clinical people to decide what they want!
- thomas beale
Dear Daniel and Thomas,
If you would like to study the correlation between length
Heather Leslie wrote:
We still can?t agree, Gerard;-)
Barthels Index is a consistent way to gather evidence about a
patient?s state ? repeat it in a month?s time and you get a consistent
answer that reflects the change in the patient?s state ? as per
Thomas? way of describing an
BeatrizdeFariaLeao wrote:
Hi Thomas,
That was exactly our doubt - why this is not in the OpenEHR wiki?
If you can share with all the community I think we can all benefit!
Thanks,
Beatriz
just hours in the day no other reason.
- thomas
Daniel Karlsson wrote:
Tom,
let me rephrase my question a bit:
is the EVENT classes time attributes used to represent the time of the
observation or the time (related to?) of the thing observed. In examples
in the EHR IM I think it is the former and not the latter case, but its
not all clear
Stefan Sauermann wrote:
Hello everybody,
Let me try if I understand this correctly, :
An EHR in the openEHR sense holds ALL data about a patient, in archetyped
form. As Thomas mentions you then go and shape concrete expressions for
certain well defined purposes, by combining these pieces in
Ian McNicoll wrote:
adding to that, the distinction between Observation and Evaluation has
no 'added meaning' in any querying or retrieval process, Observations
are no more 'true' or usefully queryable than Evaluations.
well except where an Evaluation is a wrong diagnosis or similar, but the
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http://www.oceaninformatics.com/*
Chair
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Stefan Sauermann wrote:
Gerard,
This is fine, and I agree that the Archetypes/Templates solution is to
be preferred.
However there is one fundamental weakness in it: It is based on the
assumption that everybody runs an archetype / Templates enabled
system. This is definitely not the
this data structure in the past, and it
now stands up to just about anything from measuring my weight in the
morning to rolling 4-hour averaged and delta BP values.
- thomas beale
expression editors that
anyone can understand is hard work. We had this same challenge in a
financial system I worked on, and rewrote the expression editor three
times (the current version is a tree-on-its-side, after trying much more
complicated things).
- thomas beale
*
*
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for the archetype editor(s)
(there are two).
CHanges to ADL are I think well enough managed by the 'spec' Jira
tracker already in existence; they tend to be relatively few in number
and created by a relatively small number of experts, for obvious reasons.
- thomas beale
, for standardisation purposes we need to be aware of both.
- thomas beale
Williamtfgoossen at cs.com wrote:
Thomas, Thimothy,
Thank you both for the further explanation.
Given your replies, I think the issue on tools is partly our
unfamiliarity in its use, and partly features
be something that should actually be moved out of Snomed
and represented as archetypes, due to volatility; bindings would take
care of pointing into the safe facts on the topic in Snomed.
- thomas beale
Grahame Grieve wrote:
hi Tom
I wasn't going to enter this thread, but:
Decision-makers need to study evidence, not words.
Evidence is just more words. And the key
issue is how to discern them.
*
I don't agree Grahame, evidence is something you have to go looking for,
words
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Thomas Beale wrote:
Hi Stefan,
I would suggest that in this eternal quest to 'merge standards' (I
have been hearing about it for 10 years now), we need understand that
standards are not all the same. To understand the differences we need
a small standards typology. The following
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Stefan Sauermann wrote:
Tom, thanks!
I am losing track of all the possibilites to discuss and check.
Before I log in there: What expects me there?
Stefan Sauermann
*
at the moment I just put a slightly cleaned up copy of the email post. I
will improve it as time permits. You have to
will
not be necessary anymore?
Roger
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.
- thomas beale
david.rowed [Show user profile]
(07-Jul-2009 08:46) [david.rowed]
Issue/Problem vs Diagnosis
I don't accept
Hi Andrew,
I have not looked too hard at these, but I would expect DV_PROPORTION
and DV_INTERVALDV_PROPORTION to be the most common types to use, or
else just two DV_QUANTIFIEDs in an archetype (the first one).
- thomas beale
Andrew Patterson wrote:
I was wondering if anyone had any
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of service outages as well.
Most announcements are also made in the 'news' column of the openEHR
home page (http://www.openehr.org)
- thomas beale
.
All of these in the end require an underlying ontology, and a way of
classifying each archetype within each ontology. We are not there yet,
but the seeds are there.
- thomas beale
*
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framework.
congratulations Rong!
- thomas beale
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the
resources of IHTSDO and other organisations are of course more
appropriate than here].
- thomas beale
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