Re: post-coordination in openEHR

[GF]

Pablo,

I agree that there are special rules on how to use coding systems.

Only in specified domains at specified levels in ontology the pre- or 
postco-orinated codes can be used safely.

Without rules there will be overlap of ways to code in the archetype versus 
coding in the coding system.
This is the Boundary Problem.
It can be avoided by rules:
- refrain from using co-ordinated codes, except for anatomical structures
- create archetypes that allow to express all the pre/post-co-oriated codes
- all nodes in the archetype need to be coded using Reference Coding Systems 
(SNOMED, LOINC)

In my view the Archetype is the preferred way to express pre-/post coordinated 
terms.


Gerard   Freriks
+31 620347088
  gf...@luna.nl

Kattensingel  20
2801 CA Gouda
the Netherlands

> On 9 Aug 2018, at 23:10, Pablo Pazos  wrote:
> 
> IMO it means post coordinated stuff can't be used at design time in 
> archetypes. It can be used at runtime. For instance we use snomed expressions 
> embedded in openEHR queries to filter coded texts. In the archetype or 
> template that defines that coded text, there is only a binding with snomed, 
> nothing else.
> 
> On Thu, Aug 9, 2018, 09:21 Georg Fette  > wrote:
> Hello,
> Using terminology bindings it is posssible to bind terminology IDs of
> specific terminologies to archetypes as well as to their members. In the
> openEHR documentation it is written that there is no concept of
> post-coordination outside the terminology environment. What does that
> exactly mean ? When I have a post-coordinated expression, how do I use
> it within openEHR ? The linkage of an openEHR system to a potential
> terminology server is something that I do not yet unterstand very well.
> Greetings
> Georg
> 
> --
> -
> Dipl.-Inf. Georg Fette  Raum: B001
> Universität WürzburgTel.: +49-(0)931-31-85516
> Am Hubland  Fax.: +49-(0)931-31-86732
> 97074 Würzburg  mail: georg.fe...@uni-wuerzburg.de 
> 
> -
> 
> 
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Re: post-coordination in openEHR

[Pablo Pazos]

IMO it means post coordinated stuff can't be used at design time in
archetypes. It can be used at runtime. For instance we use snomed
expressions embedded in openEHR queries to filter coded texts. In the
archetype or template that defines that coded text, there is only a binding
with snomed, nothing else.

On Thu, Aug 9, 2018, 09:21 Georg Fette  wrote:

> Hello,
> Using terminology bindings it is posssible to bind terminology IDs of
> specific terminologies to archetypes as well as to their members. In the
> openEHR documentation it is written that there is no concept of
> post-coordination outside the terminology environment. What does that
> exactly mean ? When I have a post-coordinated expression, how do I use
> it within openEHR ? The linkage of an openEHR system to a potential
> terminology server is something that I do not yet unterstand very well.
> Greetings
> Georg
>
> --
> -
> Dipl.-Inf. Georg Fette  Raum: B001
> Universität WürzburgTel.: +49-(0)931-31-85516
> Am Hubland  Fax.: +49-(0)931-31-86732
> 97074 Würzburg  mail: georg.fe...@uni-wuerzburg.de
> -
>
>
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> openEHR-technical@lists.openehr.org
>
> http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org
>
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Re: Is description = <"*"> mandatory?

[Diego Boscá]

In LinkEHR we used to put a default description including the rm type, but
a couple of years ago we decided that it was better to just put an empty
string.

El jue., 9 ago. 2018 a las 16:03, Thomas Beale ()
escribió:

> Hi Silje,
>
> In ADL 1.4, optionality is not specified for the fields of an
> ARCHETYPE_TERM
> 
> - they are essentially all optional. However, clearly having no 'text'
> field is bad / useless.
> In ADL2, which should be used as a guide, 'text' and 'description' fields
> are both specified as mandatory
> 
> .
>
> Normally the 'text' field should be used for something short and
> meaningful, with the 'description' field containing the longer version.
> However, here I think you are talking about the term definitions of
> DV_ORDINALs, and I guess the idea is that you want to put all the text into
> the 'text' field, since it is a more or less formal definition.
>
> In such cases, since the 'description' field should exist, it can just be
> empty, i.e.
>
> description = <"">
>
> Practically speaking, the current tools are probably doing nearly the
> right thing, but it would be better if there were no '*'.
>
> - thomas
>
> On 09/08/2018 13:43, Bakke, Silje Ljosland wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
>
>
> In modelling cases, particularly where we’re modelling scores and scales,
> the description element of text or ordinal values are unnecessary, because
> the value defined in the score only contain a single string of text. A good
> example of this is the ECOG Performance Status archetype, where editors
> (both Ocean’s AE and Marand’s AD) add a ‘*’ in the empty description
> element, like this:
>
>
>
> ["at0005"] = <
>
> text = <"Fully active, able to carry on all
> pre-disease performance without restriction.">
>
> description = <"*">
>
> >
>
>
>
> Is the description element mandatory, since the editors both do this?
> Could we, in cases where we don’t need it, leave out the description
> altogether?
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
> *Silje Ljosland Bakke*
>
>
>
> Information Architect, RN
>
> Coordinator, National Editorial Board for Archetypes
> Nasjonal IKT HF, Norway
>
> Tel. +47 40203298
>
> Web: http://arketyper.no / Twitter: @arketyper_no
> 
>
>
>
>
> ___
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> listopenEHR-technical@lists.openehr.orghttp://lists.openehr.org/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org
>
>
> --
> Thomas Beale
> Principal, Ars Semantica 
> Consultant, ABD Project, Intermountain Healthcare
> 
> Management Board, Specifications Program Lead, openEHR Foundation
> 
> Chartered IT Professional Fellow, BCS, British Computer Society
> 
> Health IT blog  | Culture blog
>  | The Objective Stance
> 
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Re: Is description = <"*"> mandatory?

[Thomas Beale]

Hi Silje,

In ADL 1.4, optionality is not specified for the fields of an 
ARCHETYPE_TERM 
 
- they are essentially all optional. However, clearly having no 'text' 
field is bad / useless.


In ADL2, which should be used as a guide, 'text' and 'description' 
fields are both specified as mandatory 
.


Normally the 'text' field should be used for something short and 
meaningful, with the 'description' field containing the longer version. 
However, here I think you are talking about the term definitions of 
DV_ORDINALs, and I guess the idea is that you want to put all the text 
into the 'text' field, since it is a more or less formal definition.


In such cases, since the 'description' field should exist, it can just 
be empty, i.e.


description = <"">

Practically speaking, the current tools are probably doing nearly the 
right thing, but it would be better if there were no '*'.


- thomas

On 09/08/2018 13:43, Bakke, Silje Ljosland wrote:


Hi everyone,

In modelling cases, particularly where we’re modelling scores and 
scales, the description element of text or ordinal values are 
unnecessary, because the value defined in the score only contain a 
single string of text. A good example of this is the ECOG Performance 
Status archetype, where editors (both Ocean’s AE and Marand’s AD) add 
a ‘*’ in the empty description element, like this:


["at0005"] = <

    text = <"Fully active, able to carry on all 
pre-disease performance without restriction.">


description = <"*">

    >

Is the description element mandatory, since the editors both do this? 
Could we, in cases where we don’t need it, leave out the description 
altogether?


Kind regards,
*Silje Ljosland Bakke*

**

Information Architect, RN

Coordinator, National Editorial Board for Archetypes
Nasjonal IKT HF, Norway

Tel. +47 40203298

Web: http://arketyper.no / Twitter: 
@arketyper_no 




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--
Thomas Beale
Principal, Ars Semantica 
Consultant, ABD Project, Intermountain Healthcare 

Management Board, Specifications Program Lead, openEHR Foundation 

Chartered IT Professional Fellow, BCS, British Computer Society 

Health IT blog  | Culture blog 
 | The Objective Stance 

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post-coordination in openEHR

[Georg Fette]

Hello,
Using terminology bindings it is posssible to bind terminology IDs of 
specific terminologies to archetypes as well as to their members. In the 
openEHR documentation it is written that there is no concept of 
post-coordination outside the terminology environment. What does that 
exactly mean ? When I have a post-coordinated expression, how do I use 
it within openEHR ? The linkage of an openEHR system to a potential 
terminology server is something that I do not yet unterstand very well.

Greetings
Georg

--
-
Dipl.-Inf. Georg Fette  Raum: B001
Universität WürzburgTel.: +49-(0)931-31-85516
Am Hubland  Fax.: +49-(0)931-31-86732
97074 Würzburg  mail: georg.fe...@uni-wuerzburg.de
-


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Is description = <"*"> mandatory?

[Bakke, Silje Ljosland]

Hi everyone,

In modelling cases, particularly where we're modelling scores and scales, the 
description element of text or ordinal values are unnecessary, because the 
value defined in the score only contain a single string of text. A good example 
of this is the ECOG Performance Status archetype, where editors (both Ocean's 
AE and Marand's AD) add a '*' in the empty description element, like this:

["at0005"] = <
text = <"Fully active, able to carry on all pre-disease 
performance without restriction.">
description = <"*">
>

Is the description element mandatory, since the editors both do this? Could we, 
in cases where we don't need it, leave out the description altogether?

Kind regards,
Silje Ljosland Bakke

Information Architect, RN
Coordinator, National Editorial Board for Archetypes
Nasjonal IKT HF, Norway
Tel. +47 40203298
Web: http://arketyper.no / Twitter: 
@arketyper_no

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