Hi to the list,
My name is Philippe AMELINE, and I am the leader of the french project
Odyssee and manager of a small company named Nautilus.
Inside Nautilus, we have been working for several years on the way
ontologies can allow large scale sharing of medical datas in order to
adress
Hi,
I must confess I didn't read very carefully each message on this thread ;
however, I think that I may contribute by explaining the direction we are
currently following.
First I think we must distinguish between care coordination (inside an
openEHR node) and continuity of care.
Continuity
. Did I hear
somebody mention Napster?
Philippe AMELINE philippe.ameline at nautilus-info.com 04/29/03
12:54AM
Hi,
I must confess I didn't read very carefully each message on this thread ;
however, I think that I may contribute by explaining the direction we are
currently following.
First
remains ;o)
Philippe AMELINE
-
If you have any questions about using this list,
please send a message to d.lloyd at openehr.org
I agree with Karsten - there is a basic principle here (and in openEHR).
The physician must be able to write what they want. Now...if they want to
write a sentence with the words possible Dengue Fever infection then the
software may be able to code Dengue Fever using Snomed or some other
Hi,
The clincial analysis process is pretty much standard all over and this will
find acceptability (hopefull). The data so captured can be used for a
descision support system.
This is an add on to your thaughts and maybe you can now look at your
suggested solution in the light of what would
Hi, Karsten and Christian,
Nice brain pingpong match ;o)
Don't you think that your vision depends on the feeling you get and the
tools you are familiar with ?
In a pure object oriented model, dealing with hierarchies of object is natural.
However when it comes to knowledge management, it is
Fils guides
(or just using the ontology by hand).
I hope that all this is understandable ;o)
Philippe AMELINE
Hi,
I just forgot to tell you that our ontology has only 50 000 terms
(it means less than 50 000 concepts, since a concept can be
represented by several terms). As you may
running : a smart client, and a continuity of care server, while openEHR is
working on health organization servers. Put together, we get a complete system.
Regards,
Philippe AMELINE
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please send a message to d.lloyd at openehr.org
Hi,
Since nobody on the list seems to speak french (some kind of satanic
langage however ;o)) ), I will try to find some time writing a text in
english (anyway the french text on the nautilus site is absolutely not up
to date and I can't write in Latin !).
Thanks for your interest...
Hi Koray,
Don't you think that Null is not a singularity (I mean an isolated
point), but the extreme value of a linear cursor we could name
validity or confidence.
To give a matter of fact example, I could say that :
I can provide a value without any comment : I am confident in the
quality
-process-data sequence -
for example, an exam can be technically good, but lead to wrong
information because it was performed too early or too late in a worflow).
Cheers,
Philippe
Philippe AMELINE wrote:
Hi Koray,
Don't you think that Null is not a singularity (I mean an isolated
point
Gerard,
From all the messages, it seems to me we can define 3 kind of values :
1) Values with a genuine relationship with date of birth : youth, middle
age, elderly...
Those who can manage fuzzy sets will do it that way, while others will
have to use simple time intervals based on date of
Hi Tom,
The XML file didn't pass through Chime's cerberus ;o)
Philippe
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please send a message to d.lloyd at openehr.org
Hi,
I agree with Thomas, probably because we are engineers and ask ourselves
If they don't record this information for further action, why do they
record it anyway ?.
I can perfectly understand the way Gerard thinks to it, in an EHRcom way
: I use this EHR for myself, and I can send you a
Of Philippe AMELINE
Sent: den 9 februari 2006 12:34
To: openehr-technical at openehr.org
Subject: Re: dictionary
Hi Mattias,
The more I work on medical information systems, and the less I believe that
the structure is more important than the terminology.
To be a little bit more accurate, my opinion
Thomas Beale a ?crit :
My feeling is that the good order to ask questions (and answer it) is :
Why do you want to communicate ?
What discourse complexity level can allow to address these needs ?
What discourse representation technology fits these required
language ?
I think it is
of the
electronic health records, but not built any medical terminology systems by
their own (as far as I know).
Regards,
Mikael Nystr?m
-Original Message-
From: owner-openehr-technical at openehr.org
[mailto:owner-openehr-technical at openehr.org] On Behalf Of Philippe AMELINE
Sent
Hi,
It seems to me you are turning around a really subtle and complex concept.
Like a building, information systems must have some hard parts (to stand
up) and a flexible content (so you can live in it).
The usual way is to have the hard parts being whether a database model
or some pieces of
Hi to all,
Just discovered a decision tree about using Blockchain that pretty well
sums up our discussion:
http://philippe.ameline.free.fr/wordpress/?p=1979
Best,
Philippe
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openEHR-technical mailing list
openEHR-technical@lists.openehr.org
carefully listening to the MDs, they built a user interface with
less clicks.
Le 22/11/2017 à 12:01, Bert Verhees a écrit :
>
> How do you explain that mayor players in government and healthcare-ict
> industry do not agree with this?
>
> Which mistake do they make?
>
>
s which can be
> facilitated by it.
>
> Best regards,
> Bert
>
>
> On 22-11-17 15:49, Philippe Ameline wrote:
>>
>> I was just trying to add some level of humor; sorry if it appeared
>> ironic.
>>
>> However, if you are asking me what mistake major pla
Le 14/11/2017 à 16:39, Grahame Grieve a écrit :
> In the healthcare related blockchain ideas or prototype
> implementations I have heard about so far something different than
> proof of work is used, for example proof of authority. That has
> other drawbacks and challenges, but it
Le 14/11/2017 à 12:31, Karsten Hilbert a écrit :
>> A Blockchain is a public (or at least shared) digital notary.
> ...
>> transactions are more expensive without a third party, because you need
>> to make the process of adding a new block "expensive enough" in order to
>> make sure that the one
Le 12/03/2018 à 01:38, Pablo Pazos a écrit :
> IMO we should focus on SNOMED.
Hi,
There is currently some kind of interesting momentum against Snomed.
It can come from governments that refuse to pay for it (current mood in
France), of from practitioners who, after having been asked by their
rs and adopting SNOMED at the govt level.
>
> On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 10:18 AM, Philippe Ameline
> <philippe.amel...@free.fr <mailto:philippe.amel...@free.fr>> wrote:
>
> Le 12/03/2018 à 01:38, Pablo Pazos a écrit :
>
> > IMO we should focus on SNOMED.
&
Interesting times indeed :-)
Le 12/03/2018 à 18:06, Birger Haarbrandt a écrit :
> Please never underestimate the Germans...
>
> Am 12.03.2018 um 14:54 schrieb Mikael Nyström:
>> Will France as usual be the last country that adopt something that originate
>> from Great Britain? :-)
>>
>>
like the authors are not informed
> about Cimino's desiderata... which brings us back to the wasting money
> thing...
>
> Grahame
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 8:19 PM, Philippe Ameline
> <philippe.amel...@free.fr <mailto:philippe.amel...@free.fr>>
Le 13/03/2018 à 12:32, GEORGE, John (NHS DIGITAL) a écrit :
>
>
> I am get the impression that SNOMED CT is hard to implement, and
> therefore wondered if we are at some kind of tipping point, like where
> HL7v3 was a few years ago, and some bright spark came along, and now
> we have FHIR that
Thomas,
Since, in that domain (terminologies, classification, ontologies...), it
is not that easy to understand someone else's explanation without a
sketching tool available, do you think I betray your thoughts if I sum
it up as "Snomed should not be licensed as a "one size fits all" package
but
Le 13/03/2018 à 18:01, Bert Verhees a écrit :
> On 13-03-18 17:45, Philippe Ameline wrote:
>> in my own terms, it means that it is not the proper component for
>> modern applications.
>
> Wasn't it Voltaire who said that the best is the enemy of the good?
Bert, I get
> * So the question is: if we have formal models of the structured
> form such as archetypes (maybe even FHIR profiles), why bother
> with the grammar strings?
>
>
This is a pivotal question, but you may remember that I am used to
putting it the other way around: if you can tell
> because the structures take care of all data points, not just coded
> ones. But your /fils guides/ are rather special - they do the same
> thing, unlike an ordinary grammar, so it's not really an argument. In
> fact I would say that today we could derive a computable
> transformation from the
es/tools to support
> these new purposes. Now we need the developers to use it. I see a rich
> future for software development.
>
> Best regards
> Bert
>
> Op 13 mrt. 2018 21:55 schreef "Philippe Ameline"
> <philippe.amel...@free.fr <mailto:ph
Le 15/03/2018 à 20:30, Ricardo Gonçalves a écrit :
>
> I too want to look at the the future and picture a state of art
> component and hopefully a [health] technological utopia, but a lot of
> work led us to what is currently available. Are we taking that to
> try/improve things and get
Le 14/03/2018 à 12:41, Thomas Beale a écrit :
> so the long term solution is healthcare data and major services
> (workflow / process) must eventually be part of a back-end system that
> isn't owned by any product vendor or care delivery location, but
> instead managed on behalf of the patient by
Le 14/03/2018 à 12:41, Thomas Beale a écrit :
> Translated in technological concepts, my own take is that is means
> switching:
>>
>> - from a record oriented vision to a project management vision (a
>> record is the place where you optimize your own decision support
>> ability through keeping
Le 05/04/2018 à 12:16, Thomas Beale a écrit :
> On 02/04/2018 18:38, Philippe Ameline wrote:
>>
>> Actually, I don't think that I use grammar in an unusual way. If I do
>> it technically, lets assume for the sake of the discussion that I am
>> really talking about a
Le 05/04/2018 à 15:43, Thomas Beale a écrit :
> we really should build a combined descriptive architecture to show how
> all this fits together to solve:
>
> * the continuum of deterministic - non-deterministic utterances
> possible in healthcare
> * the linguistic interface v structured
Le 30/03/2018 à 16:49, GF a écrit :
> Philippe,
>
> I understand Archetypes are discourse models and form a sentences
> A collection of sentences (Entry Archetypes) form one
> story/session/Composition and define the content of a system-interface
> connected to a database, or screen, or other
Le 28/03/2018 à 23:42, GF a écrit :
> I see the analogies:
> - Ontology= Encyclopedia
> - Terminology = Dictionary
> - Archetype = Phrase
Hi Gerard,
I would rather see Archetypes as "discourse models" that form a mold for
sentences or groups of sentences. The Phrase, in you enumeration, would
Le 30/03/2018 à 17:38, Thomas Beale a écrit :
>
> Paths is also how openEHR querying works, and in pretty much the same
> way, except for the technical fact of using archetype codes rather
> than literal strings.
>
> - thomas
>
I wrote literal strings for clarity ; actually it is a path of codes
Le 02/04/2018 à 12:54, A Verhees a écrit :
> > The "good all" SOAP is dead ; nowadays, the encounter stream is switching to
> (AP)SO(A'P'):
> > people now come with an existing set of Assessments and Procedures,
> > not "just" with "Subjective" issues.
>
> Wasn't that always the case?
We are
Le 01/04/2018 à 14:13, Thomas Beale a écrit :
> On 31/03/2018 10:38, Philippe Ameline wrote:
>> ...
>>
>> When I try to explain all this to lesser tech-savvy people (means,
>> who don't belong to this list ;-) ), I usually explain that:
>> - usual systems
ted options with the knowledge available when they were
>> created. These options were decided back in the day and usually fit
>> with precoordinated terms. And defining this subsets helps on going
>> forward
>>
>> El sáb., 31 mar. 2018 22:14, Philippe Ameline
>> &l
Le 02/04/2018 à 19:45, GF a écrit :
> 1- What stands AP)SA(A'P’) for?
I guess that you know the SOAP as the 4 main "chapters" of a clinical
encounter (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOAP_note).
From Lawrence Weed's concepts, a patient encounter should be recorded
as a "grid" with problems as
Diego,
IMHO your contribution is orthogonal to what Thomas very accurately
explained. Building subset is a symptom of the issue, not a solution.
As I tried to explain in my initial post, we are currently facing two
generation of technologies in medicine:
- systems that record information as
Gerard, I like your rule (build a grammar that coordinates a vocabulary
of "atomic concepts" instead of agglutinating meta-concepts in the
vocabulary), but not your "left eye" example ;-)
In my own "universe", the "left eye" is a true physical object (when
"eye" is a concept).
I would say the
Le 16/03/2018 à 13:11, Thomas Beale a écrit :
> Ad hoc negation, in German ;)
>
> But that's not really the fault of ICD10; it's a misuse of it. One
> might argue that it occurs because ICD10 doesn't provide a proper way
> of representing exclusions, only positive identifications. And that's
> an
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