Re: [openhealth] CCHIT biased towards proprietary software??

[David Chan]

Joseph may remember the first time I had to take my
previous EMR product (MUFFIN) through conformance
testing. It took months of planning, documentation,
test server and configuration, and then finally a week
of testing - basically going through point by point of
the system specification. I was also the programmer
then so the cost was primarily my time (hours of
evenings and weekends).

With the OntarioMD certification for OSCAR, I had to
hire a manager level staff for about 6 months to deal
with the documentations and vendor meetings,
coordinate with a dedicated programmer to modify OSCAR
to meet the requirements - which turned out to be
quite extensive, and then to prepare for the week long
testing under a specific testing configuration. I
don't have an accurate cost but we did reserve about
$50,000 for just the programming alone (we also had to
contract out a couple of pieces to work to an outside
programmer).

Conformance testing is expensive. We were able to get
funding from the government for using a certified
product at the end (much more than we had spent on
doing it). It would have been difficult to come up
with the money and energy if we hadn't anticipated the
funding opportunity.

Hope this information helps. Obviously, every
situation is a bit different.

Best regards,
David

--- Joseph Dal Molin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> In the pilot test of the criteria vendors took
> between roughly 30 and 
> 300 hours to document their solutions.don't know
> to what extent they 
> wentso Tim's estimate sounds reasonable. We
> estimated it will take 
> 300 hours for VistA Officewe will let everyone
> know when we are done 
> how long it took.
> 
> I personally believe certification is
> importantbut it should impose 
> as small a "tax'  as possible, regardless of the
> license, business model 
> etc. Automated scripts would go a long way to
> achieve this.
> 
> Would be interesting to hear from David Chan how
> much effort was 
> required to certify OSCAR in Ontario, Canada?
> 
> Joseph
> WorldVistA, VVSO
> 
> Tim.Churches wrote:
> 
> > Test files?In fact, there is no reason why
> automated test scripts
> > couldn't be used to demonstrate compliance with
> the criteria described
> > by CCHIT - see
> http://www.cchit.org/publiccomment4.htm - but I get
> the
> > feeling that those framing the criteria had human
> actors in mind with
> > respect to their test scripts. I might be wrong.
> > 
> > Either way, it would seem quite feasible for an
> open source project to
> > publish documentation of how it meets the
> certification criteria in the
> > documents on the above Web page. Tedious to
> compile such documentation,
> > but still only person-weeks (or at worst one- o r
> two-person months)of
> > work, I suspect, not person years. Split it up
> between five or six
> > people and its doable without danger of inducing
> madness. If a project
> > did that, then the CCHIT charge for certification
> ought to be minimal,
> > if anything at all.
> > 
> > Tim C
> > 
> >
>

> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > 
> > *  Visit your group "openhealth
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> on the web.
> >
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> >
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> > 
> > 
> >
>

> > 
> > .
> 


David H Chan, MD, CCFP, MSc, FCFP
Associate Professor
Department of Family Medicine
McMaster University

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Re: [openhealth] Digest Number 176

[Tim.Churches]

Irving Buchbinder wrote:
> A thought about storage for Minoru or upcomming back storage needs:
> 
> I can't speak for each project, however, the FreeMED Software Foundation
> would be willing to MIRROR such archives, indeed host that sort of activity.
> I'm sure we can find groups/Open Source works who will also be willing to
> put forward some server/disk time to keep the list operational.

Horst herb has also indicated his willingness to host mail archives on
his servers. Adhering to the LOCKSS (lots of copies keeps stuff safe)
principle, I see no objection to there being online multiple archives.
Although there is a lot of embarrassing disputation in the openhealth
archives, there is also a great deal of high quality and interesting
discussion of both technical and sociopolitical matters.

The key matter is to sanitise the email addresses so as to render the
archives less of a magnet for spam address harvesters. It's too later
for such concerns with respect to my email addresses - I get an
avalanche of spam, and rely on spam filters (which work well enough that
I hardly bothered by it). However, I can appreciate why others might not
want their email addresses easily harvestable in the archive.

Transforming email addresses is rather easy - a simple regular
expression with find them. The question is, should they be removed
entirely or just changed to something like "tim [dot] churches {at}
gmail [dot] com"? If they are removed entirely, many messages will then
be rendered effectively anonymous in the archive, because not everyone's
email client supplies a name when sending mail.

The popular MHonArc mail archiving programme has options for email
address obfuscation built-in, I think - http://www.mhonarc.org/

> Although I monitor the lists regularly, I'm not a big contributor. I've many
> times thanked Brian for his efforts when FreeMED was still a fledgling
> project, helping us to get our wings.

Yes. Brian, what is involved in packaging up the openhealth mail
archives and sending them to a one or more alternative archive hosts?
Can a compressed tarball be made easily?

> Please let us/me know what we can do to make this happen. I've never been a
> fan of Yahoo mailing because of its twitchy policies regarding back storage
> and such. Its not at ALL open source nor does its corporate nature seem
> disposed in that way.

Yes, if the current list is to remain on Yahoo, there is a good case for
setting up an independent searchable archive of it. Am I correct in
thinking that you need to actually sign in to Yahoo to be able to search
and browse the archives of the *current* openhealth mailing list? If so,
that is, I think, unfortunate and some form of openly accessible mirror
archive needs to be established.

Tim C



 
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Re: [openhealth] Digest Number 176

[Irving Buchbinder]

A thought about storage for Minoru or upcomming back storage needs:

I can't speak for each project, however, the FreeMED Software Foundation
would be willing to MIRROR such archives, indeed host that sort of activity.
I'm sure we can find groups/Open Source works who will also be willing to
put forward some server/disk time to keep the list operational.

Although I monitor the lists regularly, I'm not a big contributor. I've many
times thanked Brian for his efforts when FreeMED was still a fledgling
project, helping us to get our wings.

Please let us/me know what we can do to make this happen. I've never been a
fan of Yahoo mailing because of its twitchy policies regarding back storage
and such. Its not at ALL open source nor does its corporate nature seem
disposed in that way.

Thanks.

Irving J. Buchbinder, DPM
  Director, FreeMED Software Foundation, INC
  -=Technology Advances. People stay the same.=-


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 
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Re: [openhealth] Openhealth mailing list

[Brian Bray]

I totally agree with you, it's just a matter of timing.

There is an archive now and it works. The current system has worked OK 
for eight years now, and is the same system used to archive this list. 
"If it's not broken don't fix it" is an old developer saying that 
applies here.

Let's revisit this again when OSHCA exists.

-Brian

Molly Cheah wrote:
> Brian,
> In not underestimating the importance of the Minoru mail archives, can
> these be saved into a hard disk (40 or 80 G), since this is too big for
> the yahoo archive limit? I already have some pledges of financial
> support privately from some members and we can afford to purchase this
> harddisk :). In the context of the overall planning for OSHCA's role in
> open source in health care vis-a-vis the MDGs, I've already communicated
> with the relevant UN agencies to request for support for OSHCA and its
> activities. There shouldn't be any problem getting this support since
> our vision and mission meet some of the WSIS agenda and commitments,
> besides being based in a developing country. We can discuss offline the
> details of costs etc.
>
> Rgds,
> Molly
> Brian Bray wrote:
>
> >There have been 12928 messages. At a rough guess, this would consume
> >most of the storage capacity at Yahoo to have in a searchable format.
> >Some form of protection for email addresses in the archive would need to
> >be in place to prevent mining and spam.
> >
> >The existing archive at mail-archive.com will, as far as I know,
> >continue to exist at least until the archive limit date. It goes back a
> >couple of years. The list was also archived at two or three other sites,
> >but I'm not sure if they are still operational.
> >
> >I suggest that we use the existing archive for the time being and see if
> >there is a need for older messages.
> >
> >-Brian
> >
> >Will Ross wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Brian,
> >>
> >>How large is the mail archive of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>
> >>[wr]
> >>
> >>- - - - - - - -
> >>
> >>On Mar 29, 2006, at 4:42 AM, Bhaskar, KS wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Will --
> >>>
> >>>Any member of the list can post a compressed archive of the mails
> >>>in the
> >>>Files area of http://yahoogroups.com/group/openhealth (in a
> >>>non-proprietary format, of course!), but we have a limit of 20MB. How
> >>>big would an archive be?
> >>>
> >>>-- Bhaskar
> >>>
> >>>On Wed, 2006-03-29 at 06:42 -0600, Will Ross wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> bhaskar,
> 
> do you think the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" archive will be too large to
> post as a file at yahoogroups "openhealth"
> 
> [wr]
> 
> 
> >>>
> >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>[wr]
> >>
> >>- - - - - - - -
> >>
> >>will ross
> >>project manager
> >>mendocino informatics
> >>216 west perkins street, suite 206
> >>ukiah, california 95482 usa
> >>707.272.7255 [voice]
> >>707.462.5015 [fax]
> >>www.minformatics.com
> >>
> >>- - - - - - - -
> >>
> >>"Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents."
> >> Sir Tim Berners-Lee
> >>
> >>- - - - - - - -
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >>
> >> * Visit your group "openhealth
> >> " on the web.
> >>
> >> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> >>
> >> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
>
>
> 
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
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Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update

[David Forslund]

I also think this has gone too far off topic but the responses you have 
given don't correspond to the statements
made earlier and assume rationality on the parts of various governments, 
which has been shown not to be
a good assumption worldwide.  I have no problem with incorporation in 
Malaysia.  But it won't help much, if and when we
have a meeting in the US and need to collect fees for the meeting.   If 
business is to be conducted
in a country, I believe that incorporation in that country will be 
required particularly if it is to be a non-profit
company.   Incorporation in Malaysia won't help much in this respect.   
I assume that OSHCA has engaged
a lawyer to deal with this business process and to make recommendations. 

Dave
Tim.Churches wrote:
> David Forslund wrote:
> > Tim.Churches wrote:
> >  > David Forslund wrote:
> >  > > Molly,
> >  > >
> >  > > Incorporating OSHCA in the US doesn't necessarily imply US 
> domination.
> >  >
> >  > No, but US citizens need to be sensitive to the negative feelings
> >  > towards the US which are present and growing in many countries around
> >  > the world. Whether this antipathy towards the US is justified 
> depends a
> >  > great deal on one's standpoint - and I don't think we should 
> debate it
> >  > here - but it definitely exists and is remarkably pervasive - in some
> >  > countries it is the dominant attitude, in others, it is present in a
> >  > sizeable minority of the population.
> > This certainly is too bad as the characterization of things in the US by
> > the press outside the US is certainly not very factual or unbiased.
>
> This is a bit off-topic, but anyway... I don't think attitudes to the US
> are informed primarily by press reports of the internal situation in the
> US. I think that attitudes to the US are informed more by reports or
> direct experience of the actions and policies of the US govt and of US
> businesses outside the US.
>
> >  > Given these attitudes to the US, incorporation of an international
> >  > organisation in the US may be perceived negatively by some would-be
> >  > participants in OSHCA, and certainly by many potential funding or
> >  > collaborating bodies, such as the WSIS. Thus it *is* a practical
> >  > consideration.
> > What about unwarranted bias against the US that some organizations might
> > have?
>
> Whether the biases are warranted or unwarranted depends a great deal on
> one's point of view - but either way, it is not OSHCA's role to fight
> against anti-US sentiment. It does need to be mindful of it when dealing
> with other agencies and individuals, but should certainly not pander or
> play up to it. OSHCA needs to be seen to be non-aligned. Incorporation
> in Malaysia is a good basis for such a stance, I feel.
>
> >  > > I did not hear an
> >  > > answer to my question about the possible necessity of incorporating
> >  > > OSHCA in multiple countries.
> >  >
> >  > Yes, that may be necessary, but OSHCA should cross that bridge if and
> >  > when it comes to it. There is no need for immediate, simultaneous
> >  > incorporation in many countries in the first instance. If the 
> need for
> >  > incorporation elsewhere becomes apparent, then the necessary 
> steps can
> >  > be taken. But let OSHCA walk before forcing it to run a cross-country
> >  > race.
> > It wasn't clear why it needs to be incorporated anywhere.  I thought
> > Molly talked about "registration".
>
> Incorporation is needed in order to handle funds in an accountable
> manner from just about any source.
>
> >  > > I didn't understand Tim C.'s comment about there not being 
> freedom of
> >  > > political expression in Malaysia.
> >  >
> >  > I was alluding to the case of Anwar Ibrahim - see
> >  > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_Ibrahim - amongst others. But that
> >  > was a while ago now, and Mahathir has retired. This happens in many
> >  > democracies from time to time - see for example
> >  > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mccarthyism
> >  >
> >  > > How does that fit with a form of democracy?  I just read this 
> week in a
> >  > > Australian paper about a government
> >  > > official threatening to jail non-Muslims if they were 
> "perceived" as
> >  > > insulting Islam.  These types of things concern
> >  > > me if an international body is to be organized in such a country.
> >  > > Perhaps this information is totally erroneous?
> >  >
> >  > Such things are often misreported. However, OSHCA is unlikely to ever
> >  > make insulting comments about Islam or any other religion for that
> >  > matter. In fact, the only religious topics which might be 
> discussed are
> >  > emacs vs vi or Java vs Python or Ruby. Thus I can't see why such 
> things
> >  > are of concern with respect to where OSHCA is incorporated. Note that
> >  > incorporation of OSHCA in Malaysia or anywhere else has no impact on
> >  > your freedom of speech as an individual, even if you are also a 
> member
> >  > of OSHCA.
> >  >
> >  > Tim C
> >  >
> >

Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update

[Will Ross]

richard,

i disagree,   as a project manager interested in combatting  
unnecessary scope creep, i think the goal here is to successfully  
launch a single international version of oscha, not to simultaneously  
launch multiple national iterations.   if this were a meeting, my  
view is that molly has the floor and your motion should expire for  
lack of a second, unless you gracefully withdraw it.

with best regards,

[wr]

- - - - - - - -

On Mar 29, 2006, at 1:46 PM, Richard Schilling wrote:

> And let me clarify.  There is NO reason, in my mind, why we can't  
> set up
> a U.S. component NOW and still have OSCHA based in Malaysia.
>
> Richard
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


[wr]

- - - - - - - -

will ross
project manager
mendocino informatics
216 west perkins street, suite 206
ukiah, california  95482  usa
707.272.7255 [voice]
707.462.5015 [fax]
www.minformatics.com

- - - - - - - -

"Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents."
 Sir Tim Berners-Lee,  BCS, 2006

- - - - - - - -





 
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Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update

[Tim.Churches]

David Forslund wrote:
> Tim.Churches wrote:
>  > David Forslund wrote:
>  > > Molly,
>  > >
>  > > Incorporating OSHCA in the US doesn't necessarily imply US domination.
>  >
>  > No, but US citizens need to be sensitive to the negative feelings
>  > towards the US which are present and growing in many countries around
>  > the world. Whether this antipathy towards the US is justified depends a
>  > great deal on one's standpoint - and I don't think we should debate it
>  > here - but it definitely exists and is remarkably pervasive - in some
>  > countries it is the dominant attitude, in others, it is present in a
>  > sizeable minority of the population.
> This certainly is too bad as the characterization of things in the US by
> the press outside the US is certainly not very factual or unbiased.

This is a bit off-topic, but anyway... I don't think attitudes to the US
are informed primarily by press reports of the internal situation in the
US. I think that attitudes to the US are informed more by reports or
direct experience of the actions and policies of the US govt and of US
businesses outside the US.

>  > Given these attitudes to the US, incorporation of an international
>  > organisation in the US may be perceived negatively by some would-be
>  > participants in OSHCA, and certainly by many potential funding or
>  > collaborating bodies, such as the WSIS. Thus it *is* a practical
>  > consideration.
> What about unwarranted bias against the US that some organizations might
> have?

Whether the biases are warranted or unwarranted depends a great deal on
one's point of view - but either way, it is not OSHCA's role to fight
against anti-US sentiment. It does need to be mindful of it when dealing
with other agencies and individuals, but should certainly not pander or
play up to it. OSHCA needs to be seen to be non-aligned. Incorporation
in Malaysia is a good basis for such a stance, I feel.

>  > > I did not hear an
>  > > answer to my question about the possible necessity of incorporating
>  > > OSHCA in multiple countries.
>  >
>  > Yes, that may be necessary, but OSHCA should cross that bridge if and
>  > when it comes to it. There is no need for immediate, simultaneous
>  > incorporation in many countries in the first instance. If the need for
>  > incorporation elsewhere becomes apparent, then the necessary steps can
>  > be taken. But let OSHCA walk before forcing it to run a cross-country
>  > race.
> It wasn't clear why it needs to be incorporated anywhere.  I thought
> Molly talked about "registration".

Incorporation is needed in order to handle funds in an accountable
manner from just about any source.

>  > > I didn't understand Tim C.'s comment about there not being freedom of
>  > > political expression in Malaysia.
>  >
>  > I was alluding to the case of Anwar Ibrahim - see
>  > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_Ibrahim - amongst others. But that
>  > was a while ago now, and Mahathir has retired. This happens in many
>  > democracies from time to time - see for example
>  > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mccarthyism
>  >
>  > > How does that fit with a form of democracy?  I just read this week in a
>  > > Australian paper about a government
>  > > official threatening to jail non-Muslims if they were "perceived" as
>  > > insulting Islam.  These types of things concern
>  > > me if an international body is to be organized in such a country.
>  > > Perhaps this information is totally erroneous?
>  >
>  > Such things are often misreported. However, OSHCA is unlikely to ever
>  > make insulting comments about Islam or any other religion for that
>  > matter. In fact, the only religious topics which might be discussed are
>  > emacs vs vi or Java vs Python or Ruby. Thus I can't see why such things
>  > are of concern with respect to where OSHCA is incorporated. Note that
>  > incorporation of OSHCA in Malaysia or anywhere else has no impact on
>  > your freedom of speech as an individual, even if you are also a member
>  > of OSHCA.
>  >
>  > Tim C
>  >
>  >
> It isn't that OSHCA would deliberately do such things, but when the
> interpretation is by a government official
> and an action is perceived to be offensive, it could run into trouble
> and have no recourse.

I think that the likelihood that OSHCA will offend anyone's religious
sensibilities is vanishingly small, provided that it sticks to its
business of promoting and advocating for free, open source software in
health. OK, it would not be a good idea for OSHCA to promote open source
  software designed for running an abortion clinic in the Holy See, or
in Eire. Obviously common sense and a degree of sensitivity is called
for on some issues. But that will be the case not matter where OSHCA is
incorporated.

Tim C

>  This would be
> counterproductive to the advancement of OSHCA's principles.  I actually
> think that multiple organizations
> that work together might be better, if people would have the energy to
> do so.  This is the s

Re: [openhealth] sumultaneous registrations and registration form

[Nandalal Gunaratne]

Richard Schilling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 
 Nobody said there is no need for a US component! 
 I said in a recent email that most of FOSS is from US!!
 
 Sri Lanka has two major FOSS projects working with those in the US. The Apache 
project and our own Sahana desaster management project with whom US people are 
now working.
 
 Many top FOSS developers were in Sri Lanka in the last two years and some of s 
have been there for advanced training and met Linus and Richard Stallman etc. 
There are groups who are working with MySQL as the MySQL lead developper was 
here last year.
 
 We have developed our own linux called Taprobane which is built modular to 
allow remastering and some of the most keen users are in the US. Three guys 
here are involved with Slackware develoment.
 
 Redhat is here doing a lot of work with the government. I am hoping to promote 
Open VistA in the Ministry of Health.
 
 I could go on...
 There are too many mails in the list
 
 NandA
 
 

I cannot believe that there's no desire for a U.S. component!  You all 
are taking advantage of U.S. developed open source.  We're creating more 
open source on this continent than any other country!

I have enough open source software on my server to build the entire IT 
infrastructure of a small country - including Biosurveillance!  And if 
3rd world countries aren't able to get to it it's probably because 
groups like this haven't chosen to ally with U.S. based efforts.


Richard



Will Ross wrote:
> Richard,
> 
> As a newcomer to this list you have no basis for your observation.
> I've been participating since 2002, and I am a great admirer of  
> Molly's efforts.   Far from being undermined, I think Molly's Protem  
> Committee is rather clearly the only game in town.
> 
> Please figure out how to be a bit more constructive.   There is a lot  
> of real work to be done.
> 
> [wr]
> 
> - - - - - - - -
> 
> On Mar 29, 2006, at 2:02 AM, Richard Schilling wrote:
> 
> 
>>The protem committee taking four years to get this far is a pretty  
>>clear
>>indication that they've undermined themselves.
>>
>>
>>Richard
>>
>>
>>
>>Molly Cheah wrote:
>>
>>>Richard,
>>>I would appreciate it if you allow the protem committee to make the
>>>decisions on OSHCA since the community has given us the mandate to
>>>resurrect OSHCA. Otherwise I feel that you're undermining our  
>>>efforts. I
>>>don't understand why suddenly you're in such a hurry. Like many  
>>>others,
>>>Tim Cook, Bhaskar etc had expressed earlier there can be
>>>chapters/branches etc formed later.
>>>
>>>The discussions and sentiments expressed here will certainly be taken
>>>into consideration by the protem committee. I would like to appeal to
>>>you not to complicate the matter further otherwise your intentions  
>>>may
>>>be misconstrued. Please let me complete my job and my  
>>>responsibility to
>>>the community.
>>>
>>>I did not think that my intention to update the community with
>>>information would lead to a kind of upstaging the protem committee's
>>>efforts. If you proceed to register OSHCA it will be tantamount to
>>>acting in bad faith, as I had been negotiating with Brian on  
>>>behalf of
>>>the community.
>>>
>>>Molly
>>>Richard Schilling wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
Since OSCHA is an internationl body we can register  
siultaneously, and
choose the base to be anywhere.

Is the incorporation in Malaysia going to be doing business or just
representing FOSS industry interests?  Depending on the answer to  
that
here are our choices here in the U.S. that I can pursue now:

Trade association — Definition.

 trade associations don't "do business" but exist to exert
 influence on a market. This seems to me the best fit for OSCHA
 if the organization does not intend to own things like
 copyrighted software.  Gets around the  international
 intellectual property issues on software for OSCHA
 as well.

 "Trade association," as that term is used here
 means a membership organization of persons engaging in a similar
 or related line of commerce, organized to promote and improve
 business conditions in that line of commerce and not to engage
 in a regular business of a kind ordinarily carried on for profit
 and for which no part of net earnings inures to the benefit of
 any member.


Non-Profit Corporation - Definition.

 Non-Profit Corporations conduct business (e.g. provide products
 and services) and can also have an influencing effect.

 A nonprofit corporation is an organization formed as a
 corporation for purposes other than generating a profit, and in
 which no part of the organization's income is distributed to its
 directors or officers. Nonprofits are formed pursuant to state
 law, often under the Revised Model Non-Profit Corporation Act
 (1986). A nonprofit can be a church or church association,
 school, charity, medical pro

Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update

[Nandalal Gunaratne]

Thomas Beale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Richard Schilling wrote: Is OSHCA 
going to be opening offices for 
 trading around the world?
   
 where is the staff?
   
 NandA
 
 - thomas
 


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Re: next steps. (was Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update)

[Nandalal Gunaratne]

Richard Schilling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 
 Richard,
 
 What you say seems fine. But software patents can cause problems to us here. 
Most software come from the US and software is so expensive that there is 
rampant piracy of software in many countires. Recent WTO agreements have made 
this illegal and therefore it is not posssible for people here to get pirated 
copies anymore.
 
 This is a good thing, in my opinion, but there are many people who find that 
they can't get software nor can they afford it. They are frustrated and unhappy.
 
 They look at FOSS with some interest and our LUG has been very actively doing 
a lot of stuff. The government agency setup to do the e-government and 
promotion are also naturally interested. However patents related to software is 
rearing it's ugly head and worrying people here. We feel if software patents 
are brought in here by law, it will cause a lot of concern as peopl here can 
ill afford legal costs that may come with such laws.
 
 You in the US and me because I use FOSS for everything do not care. But for 
students and people here software costs are prohibitive. Piracy was a godsend 
that has now gone. They feel helpless, don't they?
 
 The digital divide is maintained. This is why any laws that may affect FOSS 
worries us as it is the only way forward. Even those in the US and EU do not 
think software patent issues are "silly".
 
 NandA
 Nandalal Gunaratne wrote:
 
 >  Definitely no anti-US sentiments from here.
 >  
 >  But we worry about the laws which stifle the development of lesser 
 > developed countires in their progress inICT.
 
 Really?  That amazes me. Alright, I'll play U.S. QnA session here.  Tell 
 me your concerns and I'll try to address them as they relate to OSCHA 
 operating internationally with members in the U.S.
 
 First off...
 
 Silly patents that have been applied for are irrelevant to OSCHA. 
 Membership in the WTO, as Malaysia has achieved, help protect OSCHA's 
 intellectual properties.
 
 If OSCHA is registered in the U.S. as a trade association all anyone has 
 to do is sign up.  It's that easy.
 
 If OSCHA is registered as a domestic, U.S. non-profit corporation all we 
 have to do is direct OSCHA resources to carry out its mission in other 
 countries.  OSCHA branches in other countries might have different 
 limitations and permissions on its activities.
 
 
 Richard
 
  
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