from:"Nandalal Gunaratne"

I think Tim can add a home button on the first page

Nandalal
--- Molly Cheah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Tim,
 
 When I click this Trial SIMILE link, it opens on
 same window and does 
 not take me back to the previous page,
 http://www.oshca.org/healthdir/
 Maybe its better to make it open on a separate
 window.
 Trial SIMILE Exhibit listing of free, open-source
 applications for 
 health and health care
 http://www.oshca.org/healthdir/foss_health.html
 http://www.oshca.org/healthdir/foss_health.html
 
 Rgds,
 Molly
 Tim Churches wrote:
 
 I have quickly put together an experimental OSHCA
 catalogue of FOSS
 application for health and healthcare, using The
 MIT SIMILE Semantic Web
 research lab's fabulous Exhibit and Timeline
 products (open source of
 course).
 
 See http://www.oshca.org/healthdir/
 
 If you would like to add other free, open-source
 health applications or
 projects, or edit any of the existing data, please
 see the JSON data
 file also listed on that page. Edit the relevant
 section or copy a
 section and edit it to reflect your application,
 and email me just that
 section - just pasted intot he body of an email
 message will do, doesn't
 have to be an attachment. Eventually an online
 catalogue maintenance
 facility can be built (volunteers welcome), but for
 now hand editing of
 the JSON file (by me or volunteers) will have to
 do. Feel free to add
 new data fields if you edit the data file.
 
 Tim C
 
 
 
  
 Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 
 
 
   
 
 
 



 

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Re: [openhealth] Experimental OSHCA catalogue of FOSS application for health and healthcare


--- Tim Churches [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Nandalal Gunaratne wrote:
 it separates the data from the presentation. Not
 every view has to use
 or display every data element.
 
 Tim C

This is what Zope does too!

Nanda

 



 

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Re: [openhealth] Experimental OSHCA catalogue of FOSS application for health and healthcare

Tim and David,

I wonder if David is looking at the Tiddlywiki?

Given below is the part of the JSON file and the links
are correct. The CorbaMed link has been corrected.

It is not listed under standards anymore and is under
software applications. Is it necessary to have
application framework as a category as David himself
mentions that this should be listed under software
applications?

I have added to the description that it is an
application framework.

Nandalal


{
label : OpenEMed,
type : software applications,
homepage-url : http://openemed.org/;,
logo-url : http://openemed.org/openemed.gif;,
summary : OpenEMed is an application framework,
consisting of a set of distributed healthcare
information service components built around the OMG
distributed object specifications and the HL7 (and
other) data standards and is written in Java for
platform portability. We emphasize the interoperable
service functionality that this approach provides in
reducing the time it takes to build a healthcare
related system. It is not intended as a turnkey system
but rather a set of components that can be assembled
and configured to meet a variety of tasks. OpenEMed
includes sample implementations of the Person
Identification Service, Clinical Observation Access
Service, Resource Access Decision, and Terminology
Query Service which have been adopted as international
standards by the Object Management Group
(http://healthcare.omg.org) through the OMG's
Healthcare Domain Taskforce . The system requires a
CORBA 2.3 compliant ORB to run, and works with the
OpenORB ORB , for example.pIt includes a complete
JSP client implementation of a infectious disease
monitoring system (B-SAFER) for use in an Urgent Care
setting. This includes filters for a variety of data
feeds including HL7, CSV, SQL, flat files, and XML. It
is being used to acquire a variety of data from
multiple hospital systems. Also included is a example
of a simple immunization registry pilot. The power of
using these components in a variety of settings can
ultimately lead to a fully distributed medical record
accessible by a patient. This could be ideal in a
regional healthcare management scenario (RHIO). The
OpenEMed components have also been used in the FIRST
clinical research project at the City of Hope Medical
Research Center in Duarte, California as well as
initial implementation of a health record exchange at
http://OpenHRE.org;,
licenses : ['BSD'],
categories : ['Public health','Epidemiology and
statistics','EHR','EMR'],
supported-os : ['Linux','MS-Windows','Apple Mac OS
X'],
languages : ['English'],
platforms-dependencies : ['Java','CORBA'],
first-release : 2003-04
} 
,





--- David Forslund [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The link for OpenEMed would better point to
 OpenEMed.org rather than 
 OpenEMed.net. 
 Also, I don't see any link to JSON data.  OpenEMed
 should be listed as a 
 application framework,
 not as a standard.  It implements a set of
 standards, but isn't a 
 standard in its own right.  Also
 CORBAmed should be listed as the OMG Healthcare DTF
 and simply to 
 http://healthcare.omg.org.
 The link you have is way outdated.  I would also
 link to the 
 hssp.wikispaces.com link for current
 healthcare standard efforts. 
 
 OpenEMed should certainly show up in the list of
 healthcare software 
 applications.
 I have no idea of how to do this with JSON,
 particularly, since I see no 
 mention of any JSON
 links on the referenced web pages. 
 
 Thanks,
 
 Dave
 
 
 Tim Churches wrote:
  I have quickly put together an experimental OSHCA
 catalogue of FOSS
  application for health and healthcare, using The
 MIT SIMILE Semantic Web
  research lab's fabulous Exhibit and Timeline
 products (open source of
  course).
 
  See http://www.oshca.org/healthdir/
 
  If you would like to add other free, open-source
 health applications or
  projects, or edit any of the existing data, please
 see the JSON data
  file also listed on that page. Edit the relevant
 section or copy a
  section and edit it to reflect your application,
 and email me just that
  section - just pasted intot he body of an email
 message will do, doesn't
  have to be an attachment. Eventually an online
 catalogue maintenance
  facility can be built (volunteers welcome), but
 for now hand editing of
  the JSON file (by me or volunteers) will have to
 do. Feel free to add
  new data fields if you edit the data file.
 
  Tim C
 
 

 
 



 

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Re: [openhealth] Experimental OSHCA catalogue of FOSS application for health and healthcare

David,
You are the best person to advice us on this matter.
What should go into the open standards in
healthcare? section?

The list below is what I compiled for starters to be
edited and corrected.

Nandalal

Open Healthcare Framework (OHF) Project
eHealth Standardization Coordination Group (World
Health Organization)
Health Level Seven (commonly HL7)
OpenECG
openEHR
OASIS (Organization for the Advancement of Structured
Information Standards)
National Electronics and Computer Technology Center
(NECTEC)
Open EMPI
OpenHRE
CORBAmed
--- David Forslund [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The link for OpenEMed would better point to
 OpenEMed.org rather than 
 OpenEMed.net. 
 Also, I don't see any link to JSON data.  OpenEMed
 should be listed as a 
 application framework,
 not as a standard.  It implements a set of
 standards, but isn't a 
 standard in its own right.  Also
 CORBAmed should be listed as the OMG Healthcare DTF
 and simply to 
 http://healthcare.omg.org.
 The link you have is way outdated.  I would also
 link to the 
 hssp.wikispaces.com link for current
 healthcare standard efforts. 
 
 OpenEMed should certainly show up in the list of
 healthcare software 
 applications.
 I have no idea of how to do this with JSON,
 particularly, since I see no 
 mention of any JSON
 links on the referenced web pages. 
 
 Thanks,
 
 Dave
 
 
 Tim Churches wrote:
  I have quickly put together an experimental OSHCA
 catalogue of FOSS
  application for health and healthcare, using The
 MIT SIMILE Semantic Web
  research lab's fabulous Exhibit and Timeline
 products (open source of
  course).
 
  See http://www.oshca.org/healthdir/
 
  If you would like to add other free, open-source
 health applications or
  projects, or edit any of the existing data, please
 see the JSON data
  file also listed on that page. Edit the relevant
 section or copy a
  section and edit it to reflect your application,
 and email me just that
  section - just pasted intot he body of an email
 message will do, doesn't
  have to be an attachment. Eventually an online
 catalogue maintenance
  facility can be built (volunteers welcome), but
 for now hand editing of
  the JSON file (by me or volunteers) will have to
 do. Feel free to add
  new data fields if you edit the data file.
 
  Tim C
 
 

 
 



 

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Re: [openhealth] Medsphere really is an open source company after all?

2007-03-08 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

If Medsphere OpenVista is to be included in OSHCA,
alongside World Vista, please give me the details that
should be included and if any clauses need to be
mentioned.

Nandalal
--- Tim Churches [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Fred Trotter wrote:
  The software in question was not VistA at all. It
 was developed internally
  at Medsphere. We are simply talking about a
 company that placed an open
  source offering on sourceforge and then,
 dramatically, had the software
  removed.
  
  They have since released one of the items they
 yanked under an open sourcy
  badgeware license (OSI is debating internally
 regarding the validity of
  badgeware),  they have also released some changes
 to VistA as GPL. They have
  also released public statements that they will
 always keep 5% proprietary.
  As a result Medsphere is a hybrid company, both
 open source and
  proprietary.
 
 Just as an aside, it is better to use the term
 'closed source' instead
 of proprietary. Proprietary means someone owns the
 code, and that
 applies to the vast majority of open source code -
 copyright is clearly
 asserted on the code, and some rights are reserved
 by the copyright
 holder (and some rights are granted, as specified in
 teh open source
 license that applies to the code in question).
 
  I would suggest that they should be listed on the
 OSCHA
  website, but along side IBM which also releases
 both FOSS and proprietary
  medical software. There is a difference between
 companies that commit to
  releasing everything under a FSF and OSI approved
 licenses, like mine, and
  those that do not. I would hope that OSCHA would
 make the distinction.
 
 This is a policy question for OSHCA to consider, and
 debate should
 probably take place on the OSHCA mailing list.
 However, my view, that i
 will expressing there, is that with the exception of
 badgeware, OSHCA
 should support and applaud all open source releases
 of health-related
 software, on an application-by-application basis,
 not on a
 company-by-company basis. The key test should be
 whether what is
 released as open source has some utility or
 potential utility to others.
 Thus, if a company, like, say IBM, has huge software
 holdings but
 chooses to only release a few percent of those
 holdings as open source,
 then those bits that it does release as open source
 should have OSHCA's
 support, and the company should be praised for doing
 so (with the addded
 message that releasing even more as open source
 would be better), and
 not condemned or shunned by OSHCA because it chooses
 to pursue mixed
 open- and closed-source licensing strategies. At the
 same time, OSHCA
 must take care not to promote or endorse as open
 source software or
 applications which are not actually available under
 an open source
 license, even if those application are themselves
 built with open source
 components.
 
 Tim C
 
  On 3/5/07, Gregory Woodhouse
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  On Mar 5, 2007, at 9:17 PM, Fred Trotter wrote:
 
  Tim,
  I suggest you wade through the mess under the
 blog post entitled
  Medsphere betrays community on
 GPLmedicine.org. This is a very
  complicated
  situation and there is little short of
 understanding everything
  that will
  give clarity.
  I don't see how it clarifies your reference to
 the original
  license. VistA is in the public domain in the
 sense that it may be
  obtained though FOIA. That's not the same as
 being licensed under an
  open source license. Indeed, speaking as a
 non-lawyer, I don't see
  how anyone can release VistA itself under GPL or
 any other license.
  At best, I'd think modifications to VistA could
 be released under an
  open source license. Medsphere's client is, of
 course, unrelated to
  VistA (unlike OpenVista, which I understand to be
 a modified form of
  VistA).
 
  Gregory Woodhouse
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  Life can only be understood going backwards, but
 it must be lived
  going forwards.
  --Søren Kierkegaard
 
 
 
 
 
  [Non-text portions of this message have been
 removed]
 
 
 
 
 
  Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 
 
  
  
 
 



 

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Re: [openhealth] Suppressing Sensitive Info From Free Text

2007-03-03 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

Will,

It is not a good idea to have sensitive information in
free text. If you do, it should not go to  general
circulation, right?

How can one extract such info from free text? One way
is to remove such words from free text files using a
macro of some sort. FInd and replace can be used to
remove words like HIV with a blank?

There cannot be an automated solution to this, unless
it is cutting edge! ( ..or so we like to think to
cover our ignorance!)

I wonder if we have adequate knowledge as to what
constitutes sensitive information to patients. A
good study is needed


Nandalal




--- Fred Trotter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Will,
  I am confused too. Wouldnt such a
 technology have to be turning
 test capable? Are you looking for something that can
 search Free Text make a
 determination if it is related to HIV, and then
 catagorize the whole text as
 related to HIV? Or are you looking for something
 that is capable of
 allowing the rest of the note to pass through, and
 only eliminate the
 portions relating to HIV. (which seems much harder).
 
 Could you give an example of how your application
 might work?
 
 -FT
 
 On 3/2/07, Will Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  I'm looking for a tool to suppress sensitive
 information (e.g., HIV
  status, etc.) from free text clinical notes prior
 to allowing the
  notes to be published from a protected,
 physician-only area into
  general circulation patient records for the
 clinic.   What existing
  FOSS solutions are available?
 
  With best regards,
 
  [wr]
 
  - - - - - - - -
 
  will ross
  chief information officer
  mendocino health records exchange
  216 west perkins street, suite 206
  ukiah, california  95482  usa
  707.462.6369 [office]
  707.462.5015 [fax]
  www.mendocinohre.org
 
  - - - - - - - -
 
  Getting people to adopt common standards is
 impeded by patents.
   Sir Tim Berners-Lee,  BCS,  2006
 
  - - - - - - - -
 
 
 
 
 
 
  Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 
 
 
 
 -- 
 Fred Trotter
 http://www.fredtrotter.com
 
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been
 removed]
 
 



 

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Re: [openhealth] Suppressing Sensitive Info From Free Text

2007-03-03 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

Thanks Ross!

Due to your question i have come to know the present
state of text mining and NLP. These will give you your
solution I guess.

http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1089824dl=acmcoll=CFID=15151515CFTOKEN=6184618

nandalal
--- Will Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Dear 80n,
 
 This is, in fact, the use case in discussion.
 
 Assume the patient has agreed to suppress detail x
 from circulation  
 beyond his/her physician's eyes in the local free
 text based records  
 system.   What are the best FOSS tools to publish to
 the general  
 circulation records environment a correctly edited
 version of a text  
 file?
 
 With best regards,
 
 [wr]
 
 - - - - - - - -
 
 On Mar 2, 2007, at 4:08 PM, 80n wrote:
 
  Will
  The only acceptable answer would be Maury's option
 3.  The patient  
  decides.
  Anything else would be be inappropriate.
 
  And not just HIV status.  The patient, and only
 the patient, should  
  have the
  right to determine who has access to anything that
 the patient might
  consider sensitive.   And only the patient can
 determine what is or  
  is not
  sensitive.
 
  80n
 
 
 
  On 3/2/07, Will Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 
I'm looking for a tool to suppress sensitive
 information (e.g., HIV
  status, etc.) from free text clinical notes prior
 to allowing the
  notes to be published from a protected,
 physician-only area into
  general circulation patient records for the
 clinic. What existing
  FOSS solutions are available?
 
  With best regards,
 
  [wr]
 
  - - - - - - - -
 
  will ross
  chief information officer
  mendocino health records exchange
  216 west perkins street, suite 206
  ukiah, california 95482 usa
  707.462.6369 [office]
  707.462.5015 [fax]
  www.mendocinohre.org
 
  - - - - - - - -
 
  Getting people to adopt common standards is
 impeded by patents.
  Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006
 
  - - - - - - - -
 
 
 
 
 
  [Non-text portions of this message have been
 removed]
 
 
 
   Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
  
  ~--
  Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email
 design.
 

http://us.click.yahoo.com/hOt0.A/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/W4wwlB/TM
 


 
  ~-
 
 
  Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 
 
 
 [wr]
 
 - - - - - - - -
 
 will ross
 chief information officer
 mendocino health records exchange
 216 west perkins street, suite 206
 ukiah, california  95482  usa
 707.462.6369 [office]
 707.462.5015 [fax]
 www.mendocinohre.org
 
 - - - - - - - -
 
 Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded
 by patents.
  Sir Tim Berners-Lee,  BCS,  2006
 
 - - - - - - - -
 
 
 



 

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Re: [openhealth] VistA Office EHR SemiVivA 2.3.1 released

2007-02-25 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

It was VistA itself I was asking about. Porting it to
Java was being attempted, was it not?

Nandalal


--- Joseph Dal Molin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 CPRS is based on Delphi not MUMPSand yes it
 is being ported to 
 Java by VA.
 
 Nandalal Gunaratne wrote:
  Right now it is in hibernation.
  
  Pity.
  
  I find that it is difficult to get people to look
 at
  MUMPS. They all shy away from it. I have yet to
 meet
  someone in asia who uses VistA and M or GT.M for
 that
  matter.
  
  Porting it into Java was being discussed sometime
 ago.
  I guess that would be a difficult job?
  
  Nandalal
  
  --- Joseph Dal Molin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  It got 95% of the way there and needs more
 funding
  to complete the work. 
  Right now it is in hibernation.
 
  Joseph
 
  Nandalal Gunaratne wrote:
  Thanks.
 
  There was an attempt with CodeWeavers to build
 the
  CPRS to work with Linux  instead of MS Windows.
  How
  far has this gone?
 
  Nandalal
  --- Joseph Dal Molin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 
Does this have a GUI interface?
 
  That is a very broad question.the answer is
  not
  everything in VOE 
  nor VistA has a GUI interface... the backend
  components like lab and 
  pharmacy are role and scroll for the most
  part
  but if you are a 
  provider of care you work in a GUI world.
 
  The clinical GUI interface for VOE is primarily
  CPRS, we are also using 
  a couple of other components which have their
 own
  GUI like document 
  scanning etc. We have integrated EsiObjects to
  provide a web browser 
  patient registration capability.
 
  There is no online demo for VOE but you can get
 a
  good idea of what it 
  is like by going to the online demo that the VA
  has:
  www.va.gov/cprsdemo
 
  Joseph
 
 
  Nandalal Gunaratne wrote:
  Does this have a GUI interface? IS there a
 demo
  online
  to try out?
 
  Nandalal
  --- Joseph Dal Molin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  wrote:
  a couple of important clarifications to
  Bhaskar's post:
 
Please note that this VERSION OF THE
  software
  has
  not been field tested.
 
   this specific version has not been field
  tested
Furthermore, most of the components IN
 THIS
  VERSION OF VOE were 
  introduced to none of
the usual VistA SDLC (Software Development
  Life
  Cycle) where packages
and patches of any complexity usually
 endure
  a
  number of iterations
between SQA (Software Quality Assurance)
  reviews,
  field testing and
developer responses.
 
  VOE is currently undergoing completion of SQA
  using
  the same standards 
  as are used in the VA. This work will be
  completed
  toward the end of 
  March. WorldVistA has submitted its
 application
  to
  certify the software 
  under the CCHIT 2006 criteria...assuming all
  goes
  well successful 
  certification will be announced in late April
  or
  very early May.
 
  Joseph
  .
  VOE Program Manager, WorldVistA
 
 
  K.S. Bhaskar wrote:
  VistA Office EHR SemiVivA 2.3.1 (MD5 sum
  16a0e6ae1951a512e88d83edd4e254a9) is
 available
  for
  downloading from
  the WorldVistA project page at Source Forge
 
 (http://sourceforge.net/projects/worldvista).
 
  VistA Office EHR SemiVivA 2.3.1 packages the
  release of VistA Office
  EHR 2.3.1 as made available at the VistA
  Office
  EHR project page at
  Source Forge
  (http://sourceforge.net/projects/vista-officeehr)
  on
  January 31, 2007.  Nancy Anthracite
 configured
  the
  settings for it to
  run on GT.M, and provided the CPRS and
 Vitals
  executables (for
  Windows).  An access code of VistAis#1 and
  verify
  code of #1isVistA
  will work for CPRS to connect.
 
  Please note that this software has not been
  field
  tested.
  Furthermore, most of the components for VOE
  were
  introduced to none of
  the usual VistA SDLC (Software Development
  Life
  Cycle) where packages
  and patches of any complexity usually endure
 a
  number of iterations
  between SQA (Software Quality Assurance)
  reviews,
  field testing and
  developer responses.  This software is
  intended
  for evaluation /
  demonstration purposes.  You take all
  responsibility for using it.
  This SemiViVA package is bundled with GT.M
  V5.2-000, as available
  under the GNU General Public License from
 the
  GT.M
  project page at
  Source Forge
 
 (http://sourceforge.net/projects/sanchez-gtm).
  A
  SemiVivA
  package is a one-step install of VistA and
  GT.M
  on
  a Linux machine.
  Assuming the file has been downloaded as
  /Distrib/VistAOfficeEHRSemiVivA_2.3.1.tgz,
 to
 
=== message truncated ===



 

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Re: [openhealth] VistA Office EHR SemiVivA 2.3.1 released

2007-02-23 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

Thanks.

There was an attempt with CodeWeavers to build the
CPRS to work with Linux  instead of MS Windows. How
far has this gone?

Nandalal
--- Joseph Dal Molin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   Does this have a GUI interface?
 
 That is a very broad question.the answer is not
 everything in VOE 
 nor VistA has a GUI interface... the backend
 components like lab and 
 pharmacy are role and scroll for the most part
 but if you are a 
 provider of care you work in a GUI world.
 
 The clinical GUI interface for VOE is primarily
 CPRS, we are also using 
 a couple of other components which have their own
 GUI like document 
 scanning etc. We have integrated EsiObjects to
 provide a web browser 
 patient registration capability.
 
 There is no online demo for VOE but you can get a
 good idea of what it 
 is like by going to the online demo that the VA has:
 
 www.va.gov/cprsdemo
 
 Joseph
 
 
 Nandalal Gunaratne wrote:
  Does this have a GUI interface? IS there a demo
 online
  to try out?
  
  Nandalal
  --- Joseph Dal Molin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  a couple of important clarifications to
  Bhaskar's post:
 
Please note that this VERSION OF THE software
 has
  not been field tested.
 
   this specific version has not been field
 tested
 
 
Furthermore, most of the components IN THIS
  VERSION OF VOE were 
  introduced to none of
the usual VistA SDLC (Software Development
 Life
  Cycle) where packages
and patches of any complexity usually endure a
  number of iterations
between SQA (Software Quality Assurance)
 reviews,
  field testing and
developer responses.
 
  VOE is currently undergoing completion of SQA
 using
  the same standards 
  as are used in the VA. This work will be
 completed
  toward the end of 
  March. WorldVistA has submitted its application
 to
  certify the software 
  under the CCHIT 2006 criteria...assuming all goes
  well successful 
  certification will be announced in late April or
  very early May.
 
  Joseph
  .
  VOE Program Manager, WorldVistA
 
 
  K.S. Bhaskar wrote:
  VistA Office EHR SemiVivA 2.3.1 (MD5 sum
  16a0e6ae1951a512e88d83edd4e254a9) is available
 for
  downloading from
  the WorldVistA project page at Source Forge
  (http://sourceforge.net/projects/worldvista).
 
  VistA Office EHR SemiVivA 2.3.1 packages the
  release of VistA Office
  EHR 2.3.1 as made available at the VistA Office
  EHR project page at
  Source Forge
  (http://sourceforge.net/projects/vista-officeehr)
 on
  January 31, 2007.  Nancy Anthracite configured
 the
  settings for it to
  run on GT.M, and provided the CPRS and Vitals
  executables (for
  Windows).  An access code of VistAis#1 and
 verify
  code of #1isVistA
  will work for CPRS to connect.
 
  Please note that this software has not been
 field
  tested.
  Furthermore, most of the components for VOE were
  introduced to none of
  the usual VistA SDLC (Software Development Life
  Cycle) where packages
  and patches of any complexity usually endure a
  number of iterations
  between SQA (Software Quality Assurance)
 reviews,
  field testing and
  developer responses.  This software is intended
  for evaluation /
  demonstration purposes.  You take all
  responsibility for using it.
  This SemiViVA package is bundled with GT.M
  V5.2-000, as available
  under the GNU General Public License from the
 GT.M
  project page at
  Source Forge
  (http://sourceforge.net/projects/sanchez-gtm). A
  SemiVivA
  package is a one-step install of VistA and GT.M
 on
  a Linux machine.
  Assuming the file has been downloaded as
  /Distrib/VistAOfficeEHRSemiVivA_2.3.1.tgz, to
  install on your Linux
  PC, execute the following, as root:
 
  cd /usr/local
  tar zxvf
 /Distrib/VistAOfficeEHRSemiVivA_2.3.1.tgz
 
  This will create new directories
  /usr/local/VistAOfficeEHR_2.3.1 and
  /usr/local/gtm_V5.2-000. Please note that this
  will overwrite any
  directories or symbolic links you have with
 those
  names. You may wish
  to replace your symbolic links with new ones
  (i.e., the following is
  optional; also to be executed as root in
  /usr/local):
  rm gtm ; ln -s gtm_V5.2-000 gtm
  rm VistAOfficeEHR ; ln -s VistAOfficeEHR_2.3.1
  VistAOfficeEHR
  To use it, you will need to create a working
  environment (see
  http://tinyurl.com/738jk for details). To create
  an environment in
  ~/myVistAOfficeEHR (the choice of directory name
  is entirely yours),
  as a normal user, execute:
 
  /usr/local/VistAOfficeEHR_2.3.1/install
  ~/myVistAOfficeEHR
  Subsequently, to get to an interactive mode GT.M
  prompt in that
  environment, execute:
 
  ~/myVistAOfficeEHR/gtm_V5.2-000/run
 
  To run entryref ABC^DEF in that environment,
  execute:
  ~/myVistAOfficeEHR/gtm_V5.2-000/run ABC^DEF
 
  To get a CPRS GUI to connect to the environment
 in
  ~/myVistAOfficeEHR,
  you should set up inetd/xinetd to execute
  ~/myVistAOfficeEHR/gtm_V5.2-000/cprs_direct in
  response to a
  connection request.  If you have set up

Re: [openhealth] Re: Hi folks..

2007-02-20 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

Thank you Thomas. This is not urinalysis but urea and
electrolytes! 

What is the Any Result data type is not set doing
here. It is, after all, urea and electrolytes, and the
electrolytes are mentioned. Is this to leave room for
rare electrolytes like the level of copper in the
blood or iron?

Nandalal
--- Thomas Beale [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Nandalal Gunaratne wrote:
   The power of this approach is hard to appreciate

  until you're in a 
  situation where lots of people have lots of
 things
  they want to 
  characterize in a system.  It allows
 non-developers
  to own and 
  augment their own notions of what data matters to
  them, without 
  altering the underlying database model.
  
 
  This is important for clinicians in different
  specialities with various interests in the
 specifics.
  No FOSS EMR I tried/used, except OIO, allow this
 to be
  done easily by users.
 
  The Concept Dictionary approach seems to be
 similar to
  the Archetypes approach of OpenEHR, which goes a
  further step.
 

 you can see a urinalysis archetype here: 

http://svn.openehr.org/knowledge/archetypes/dev/html/en/openEHR-EHR-OBSERVATION.laboratory-urea_and_electrolytes.v1.html
 (main page:

http://svn.openehr.org/knowledge/archetypes/dev/index.html)
 
 - thomas beale
 
 
 



 

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Re: [openhealth] Re: Hi folks..

2007-02-20 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

Paul,

This is a good explanation of what OpenMRS is about,
and I find it quite refreshing. The problem of
constraints to allow greater acceptance and accuracy
(OpenEHR) against allowing change as you seem to do to
allow freedom to improve and grow in new directions, 
but which can cause confusion and inaccuracy, will
last forever. The correct path is the middle path.

nandalal
--- Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi Thomas,
 
 --- In openhealth@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Beale
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Nandalal Gunaratne wrote:
The power of this approach is hard to
 appreciate
 
   until you're in a 
   situation where lots of people have lots of
 things
   they want to 
   characterize in a system.  It allows
 non-developers
   to own and 
   augment their own notions of what data matters
 to
   them, without 
   altering the underlying database model.
   
  
   This is important for clinicians in different
   specialities with various interests in the
 specifics.
   No FOSS EMR I tried/used, except OIO, allow this
 to be
   done easily by users.
  
   The Concept Dictionary approach seems to be
 similar to
   the Archetypes approach of OpenEHR, which goes a
   further step.
  
 
  you can see a urinalysis archetype here: 
 

http://svn.openehr.org/knowledge/archetypes/dev/html/en/openEHR-EHR-OBSERVATION.laboratory-urea_and_electrolytes.v1.html
  (main page:

http://svn.openehr.org/knowledge/archetypes/dev/index.html)
  
  - thomas beale
 
 
 Thanks for the link.  It hasn't worked for me, but
 I'm familiar enough
 (I think) to have at least a cursory understanding
 of what archetypes
 are.  Probably enough to be dangerous. :)
 
 Defining the relative metadata around medical
 concepts is typically a
 good thing, and for your work on that I applaud this
 effort.  However,
 where I get worried with this approach is in both
 the vagaries of
 health care and practice patterns.
 
 A wise quote that I heard when I started medical
 informatics training
 was a lot of what we practice today is wrong.  I'm
 a pediatrician,
 and I can attest to this... and because of the
 constant evolution in
 best practices, there's always a scattergram of
 practice styles vs.
 best practices.  That is, the urinalysis today,
 might not be the
 urinalysis of tomorrow.  Some might continue to use
 the old urinalysis
 for a number of various reasons, and some of those
 reasons might be
 correct.  Therefore, there arise various flavors and
 colors of a single
 archetype that I think I understand represent
 models of how certain
 care is delivered.  These coexisting vagaries and
 various evolutions
 of medical concepts unfortunately I think are a
 necessary reality of
 health information system design.
 
 What we've attempted to do at Regenstrief (and
 within OpenMRS for that
 matter) is to abstract out one level further.  That
 is, all medical
 concepts have descriptions, datatypes, classes,
 and for a given
 combination of class, datatype some relative
 metadata.  For example, a
 urine pH is a numeric datatype, and a test class. 
 Therefore, it has
 metadata such as absolute, critical, and normal
 ranges, a unit
 designation, etc etc.  These concepts live in the
 database right
 alongside the actual repository of data to serve as
 a general resource
 to the entire enterprise.  Any user can populate the
 database with new
 concepts, and we're actively working on building a
 resource, the OCC
 (OpenMRS Concept Cooperative) to allow for
 imports/exports of these
 creations for the use of the entire community.
 
 That being said, it's probably a good idea for the
 community to try
 something that inherently feels more tightly defined
 and
 interoperable.  We however, made the choice based on
 pragmatics.  That
 is, the approach I've described has been road tested
 for a very long
 time with good success.  We wanted to stack our odds
 for success, and
 were more reluctant to experiment.  The OpenMRS
 group took advantage
 of our institution's work, added some extra details
 (such as the
 ability to pre and post-coordinate ccmplex questions
 and answers,
 richer synonymies, etc.)
 
 Best,
 -Paul
 
 



 

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Re: [openhealth] openEHR archetype licensing by UK NHS (was Re: Hi folks.)

2007-02-20 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

I agree with Tim. The licensing is ambiguous in regard
to open licenses (OSI) and copyleft principles of
FOSS.

However OpenEHR may want to keep this open for
change.

The archetypes at least, must be protected from being
commercialised as they are the collaborative work of
many people. 

Nandalal 

--- Tim Churches [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Thomas Beale wrote:
  Tim Churches wrote:
  However I am still not completely comfortable
 with the way openEHR
  archetype definitions are licensed. The biggest
 problem is probably the
  indefinite nature of the licensing, because there
 is no direct reference
  to the license(s) which cover them. However, as
 far as I understand it,
  openEHR archetype definitions which are available
 from the openEHR
  archetype repository are covered by the openEHR
 Public Licence and the
  openEHR Free Commercial Use Licence as detailed
 here:
 
 http://www.openehr.org/about_openehr/t_licensing.htm
 
  Neither of these licenses can be considered as
 adhering to open source
  licensing principles. The openEHR Public
 Licence is actually very

 
  from my memory, this license was written by UCL
 based on normal 
  'licenses' for re-use of academic materials. The
 idea against 
  modification is the same as for academic texts and
 papers. Whether (in 
  hindsight) it was a good license to apply to
 archetypes I don't know - 
  we now have a lot more experience with them. I
 agree that a more 
  source-code like license would make sense (since
 source licenses are 
  oriented toward allowing change; document licenses
 are oriented toward 
  preserving copyright and not allowing change of
 the original).
 
 Yes. openEHR archetype definitions are analogous to
 the SQL back-end
 database schema and triggers, and to some degree to
 the middleware
 business logic, in traditional applications. All of
 these need to be
 freely modifiable and shareable if one's data is not
 to be locked-in, or
 at lest if exchange is not to be seriously hampered.
 In open source
 applications, the database schema and triggers etc
 are all covered by
 the open source license, which allows modification
 and sharing.
 
  restrictive and does not allow  modification or
 redistribution of
  archetype definitions covered by it. The openEHR
 Free Commercial Use
  Licence is much less restrictive but
 discriminates on the basis of
  field of endeavour, which is antithetical to the
 commonly accepted
  definition of open source licensing (see
  http://www.opensource.org/docs/definition.php )
 
  Are you saying this because the first paras
 mention healthcare? I can't 
  find anything else about 'field of endeavour'.
 
 No, I am referring to the distinction between
 academic and
 commercial endeavour which the openEHR licenses
 make, and the fact
 that the openEHR Free Commercial use License
 specifically does not apply
 to Private, Non-Commercial Activities as it sates
 in its Introduction.
 
  In any case, the bullet 
  points are just examples, as the text of the
 license says.
 
 No it doesn't mention examples anywhere except in
 the warranties
 section. What it actually says is:
 
 Commercial Use shall include, without limitation:
 * the normal commercial licensing of the
 Materials (whether alone,
 incorporated into another program or document, or as
 a work derived from
 the Materials in whole or part); or
 * where the Materials are used (whether alone,
 incorporated into
 another program or document, or as a program or
 document derived from
 the Materials in whole or part) directly or
 indirectly for the
 treatment, evaluation or medical care of patients,
 or in the recording,
 compiling and analysing of any facts, records or
 statistics in regard
 to, patients.
 
 Now you may read that as open-ended, but from an
 end-user's perspective,
 it is uselessly open-ended, as it is never clear
 where some other use is
 commercial use for the purposes of this license or
 not, unless the
 other use is for teaching or for Private,
 Non-Commercial Activities,
 in which case it is not Commercial use under this
 license.
 
 Do you see the problem with licenses which restrict
 use or applicability
 based on field of endeavour - they tie themselves
 and would-be users in
 knots trying to work out whether one's own field of
 endeavour is covered
 or not. Very bad practice and a complete turn-off
 for widespread adoption.
 
  I can't see 
  anything in it that limits how you use the
 materials; the intent of the 
  license is in fact to remove liability for use
 from UCL, in other words, 
  the usual 'user's responsibility' condition. I am
 sure there are better 
  licenses around, but so far I am not sure why this
 one is broken.
 
 Well, if a user does not fall under the definition
 of Commercial Use,
 or if they do fall into the categories of Private,
 Non-Commercial
 Activities or teaching, then the licenses limit
 them from doing
 anything except read the materials. They are not
 allowed to share or
 modify

Re: [openhealth] Re: Hi folks..

2007-02-19 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

 The power of this approach is hard to appreciate
 until you're in a 
 situation where lots of people have lots of things
 they want to 
 characterize in a system.  It allows non-developers
 to own and 
 augment their own notions of what data matters to
 them, without 
 altering the underlying database model.

This is important for clinicians in different
specialities with various interests in the specifics.
No FOSS EMR I tried/used, except OIO, allow this to be
done easily by users.

The Concept Dictionary approach seems to be similar to
the Archetypes approach of OpenEHR, which goes a
further step.

Nandalal
--- Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi Karsten,
 
 --- In openhealth@yahoogroups.com, Karsten Hilbert 
 
  Agree. I'm reading this thread with interest. I
 have been
  interested in the Concept Dictionary approach ever
 since I
  learned about OpenMRS a year ago or so. There's a
 strong
  camp opposed to EAV-only schemata. I have a
 nagging feeling,
  however, that having a Concept Dictionary approach
 can be of
  great value where it fits (as a poor-mans export
 system,
  perhaps ?). I have read most of the OpenMRS docs
 but haven't
  yet been struck by lightning going Ah yes !
 That's how I'd
  want to use that in GNUmed !!. As I said, I do
 think I am
  missing out on something very elegant and would
 like to be
  educated on that. It's the same feeling I have
 that once I
  eventually get around to implementing forms (as in
 paper)
  support I will turn to studying NetEpi on that.
 
 Well, Burke and I started down the pathway of a
 concept dictionary 
 based EAV model not due to any divine wisdom on our
 part, but 
 because of the education we received from our
 mentor, Clem McDonald, 
 who is the father of the RMRS, one of the oldest
 (40+ years) and 
 largest clinical information systems I'm aware of. 
 We thought, if 
 it's not broke, let's not try to fix it.  Of course,
 we've 
 modernized and extended out some of the
 functionalities from the 
 RMRS model, but the basic ideas have remained
 intact.
 
 The most important technical a-ha for me was once
 I got the point 
 that the dictionary defines both the questions and
 the answers 
 within an observation.  My favorite example is a
 simple test in any 
 urinalysis, the urine color.  We create a concept
 for the 
 question urine color and then define all of the
 appropriate meta-
 data that drives that question.  Like, what is the
 datatype of the 
 concept, what are it's synonyms, what is it's
 description?  In the 
 case of urine color, you might set it's datatype as
 coded so that 
 you can make separate concepts for each answer. 
 (ie, yellow, straw 
 colored, clear, etc.)  The magic of this dictionary
 is that any 
 concept can be used throughout the system in a lot
 of ways.  Want to 
 use urine color as an answer to another question? 
 No problem.  
 Want to use yellow to describe's someone skin color?
  No problem as 
 well.
 
 The power of this approach is hard to appreciate
 until you're in a 
 situation where lots of people have lots of things
 they want to 
 characterize in a system.  It allows non-developers
 to own and 
 augment their own notions of what data matters to
 them, without 
 altering the underlying database model.  The RMRS
 has over 30k of 
 these concepts.  If you'd like me to set you up with
 some examples 
 of what this looks like in a live system, just let
 me know.  I'll 
 point you to a demo that you can hack around with.
 
 Hope this is helpful,
 -Paul
 
 




 

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Re: [openhealth] Re: Hi folks..

2007-02-18 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

This is just the type of discussion we should have in
the May OSHCA Conference!!

FOSS interoperability - from theory to practice

Nandalal
--- David Forslund [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Tim Churches wrote:
  Paul wrote:

  Hi Dave,
 
  Our API is built around the standard health
 objects within the
  OpenMRS data model (ie, person, encounter, order,
 observation, etc) ,
  as a way of abstracting out CRUD-type operations
 to the database. 
  There are layers of API calls on top of this
 bedrock which provide
  business type functionality (user authentication,
 medical logic
  services, etc).  Maybe I'm misunderstanding your
 question, but
  wouldn't standard APIs necessitate that the
 database schemas
  underneath those calls are represented the same
 as well?
  
 The answer is no.  This is the major result of the
 Clinical Observation
 Access Service (COAS) specification from the OMG in
 the late 90's.  It 
 standardized an interface that was independent of
 the underlying
 storage schema.  In a sense this is the same
 question that arises with
 XML.  One can store an XML file with structure
 without having to have a 
 database that has the specific XML schema in it.COAS
 did this without 
 requiring XML.   Take a look at the RLUS work coming
 from 
 hssp.wikispaces.org
 for the follow on to this work.
  Part of the challenge our team continually
 struggles with involves
  finding that right balance between being
 pragmatic and creating a
  framework that's everything to everyone, and
 potentially smolders
  under it's own weight.
  
 
  Yes, this is an absolutely central problem, and we
 also wrestle with it
  all the time - the trade=off between specific
 solutions to specific
  requirements, which are much simpler and quicker
 to implement, and more
  general solutions to more general requirements,
 which are much harder to
  design and implement.

 People may not agree with the COAS effort of the
 OMG, but this was
 exactly its goal and I believe it achieved it.  It
 provides an 
 underlying basic support for interoperability of
 medical records.  It
 doesn't provide all the business logic for
 healthcare which isn't
 required for interoperability.

  We made a fairly conscious decision for
  example, not to try to represent the HL7 RIM, as
 it's been our
  experience that work in that domain is high on
 promise but lacking in
  successful, well vetted implementations.  If on
 the other hand, you
  believe there's a way to adapt our API approach
 to be more closely
  aligned with existing standards, yet allowing
 us to continue our
  EAV, concept modeling approach to repository
 design, I'd love to hear
  your thoughts.
  
 
  The openEHR model is probably relevant - it can be
 viewed as a more
  evolved form of the two-level model which
 OpenEMR (and the Regenstrief
  Clinic for several decades before that) uses. The
 openEHR people have
  put forward their work as the basis for an ISO
 standard - only a
  proposed standard at this stage. There is a
 java-based open source
  openEHR kernel currently available, but it is
 still in beta or
  incomplete (I think), and there are some other
 open-source tools for
  working with openEHR archetypes, but relatively
 few people have much
  experience with this technology and those that do
 have not published
  descriptions of their experience except
 anecdotally (eg it seems to
  work). So, openEHR has promise but it is a rather
 untrodden path at
  present, and a complex and twisting one at that
 with steep (learning)
  hills (curves) along the way. We are keeping a
 watching brief on openEHR
  for potential use in our NetEpi suite of public
 health/epidemiology
  tools (see http://www.netepi.org ).

 I should note here that the COAS model supported the
 GEHR model which
 was the predecessor to OpenEHR.  It specifically
 took into account in 
 the standardization process.  I still believe that a
 COAS interface can 
 be used with OpenEHR, but I don't have the time to
 actually demonstrate 
 this. COAS has been shown to work in fairly
 interesting situations 
 including epidemiology.   Our implementation is
 available, of course, as 
 open source.  What is curious is that there have
 been, so far, no other
 open source projects which have attempted to follow
 this 
 interoperability path even though an open source
 example of it has been 
 out there for more than 7 years.

  Today, our vision of interoperability is through
 standard HL7
  messaging, and web-services where they make
 sense.  
  
 
  That seems sensible. Have you looked at Mirth?
 http://www.mirthproject.org/

 Messaging is fine, although using HL7 for
 interoperability has its
 issues.   I think a service oriented approach is
 much more powerful and 
 provides a stronger layer of interoperability.  It
 is this approach that
 is being used in the HSSP effort:
 http://hssp.wikispaces.org as a joint
 effort of HL7 and the OMG. To vastly oversimplify
 it,

Re: [openhealth] OSHCA Conference Topics

2007-02-05 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

Hi Christian,

You are right on-the-ball here. What the asian
colleagues would want is exactly what you suggested -
intro to the core of the standards and what they mean
in simple short form. They may also want more
interactive hands on stuff regards FOSS apps rather
than talks on them. The thing is many have attended
FOSS conferences where they heard about apps but never
really saw them working!

Since installation is the most important part, this
must be well documented. Issues regards the version of
different software that work and do  NOT work are
important in FOSS -eg:  the exact
Apache/Tomcat/java/mysql/postgresql/php/python
versions that that work together for that particular
application, and those that do not.

Nandalal

--- Christian Heller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Hi Klaus,
 
  Re question 3, I would like to suggest we look at
 the topic How can FOSS
  applications share data with other existing
 healthcare applications?.  This
  aim of the topic is that there already are
 well-established standards (HL7,
  LOINC, SNOMED, etc.) in use in healthcare systems
 and that to be able to
  integrate into existing healthcare institutions
 any new (FOSS) system must
  be able to use these standards. We started on this
 topic at the London OSHCA
  meeting, but much more work needs to be done.
 
 yes, you are correct. As I wrote yesterday in my
 other email on
 Getting OSHCA organised, it should not:
 1 Define technical architectures
 2 Mandate use of specific standards .. nor try to
 define its own
 That is at least what we in the committee agreed
 upon. Opinions welcome.
 
 In other words, OSHCA should focus on
 inter-operability using *existing*
 standards, instead of defining its own, as you
 write. However, it may
 give recommendations on which standards to prefer.
 Although OSHCA would
 be neutral assessing standards, open standards would
 clearly be preferred.
 
 My thoughts are that it'd be nice to have one-hour
 presentations of
 standards like HXP, HDTF (CORBAmed), OpenEHR, HL7,
 xDT etc. on one day.
 Ideally, the presentations would give few theory and
 demonstrate on
 practical examples (code snippets, live demo or
 whatever), how they work,
 just like at a developer's conference. Although I
 know basic principles
 behind most of these standards, the conference would
 already be worth
 visiting for me, because I'd get essential knowledge
 in a compact form.
 And this is presumably also what our Asian
 (developer) colleagues
 expect from the conference: to get a brief overview
 of important
 technologies. I suggest to exclude terminology
 standards this time,
 or to plan just one presentation giving an overview
 of some of them.
 Instead, we should focus on pure data exchange.
 
 But these are just my ideas and wishes. Others in
 this list may vote
 me down and change the conference agenda. Tell us
 your wishes and we
 will try to realise them.
 
 Christian
 



 

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Re: [openhealth] Re: [Fwd: [FOSS-PDI] OSHCA Conference - Preliminary Announcement]

2007-01-18 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

Hello THomas,
 
 To give you an idea of the kind of thinking that
 could be exposed, here 
 is my opinion:
 I think they should be open and freely usable - in
 fact I think the only 
 sensible business model for standards development is
 to give them away 
 free and charge some money for compliance testing.

The development of standards can be quite costly as
Stephen pointed out, is it possible to get money just
by compliance testing? They could charge a licence fee
for continuous use.

 What ISO and many 
 other bodies do is completely wrong, and hence fails
 most of the time 
 (there are far more ISO standards than are actually
 used, because people 
 cannot even examine them for fitness without paying
 for them. Hence a 
 vast amount of talking, time off and air miles are
 wasted on producing 
 documents that never see the light of day).
 
This is true. HL7 was also being criticised for going
on and on and not producing anything useable.

 
 Just to continue on my software ecosystem comment
 a few posts back, I 
 think this conference would be an opportunity to
 show more than just 
 why open source is good in a general sense. We
 already have the proof 
 that this is true in some areas, with
 category-topping efforts like 
 Linux  Apache. We also already have some great
 medical open source 
 systems. 

We need to identify these great systems, from the
good systems. Could you list a few you think are
great?


What we don't have is a standard-based,
 interoperable ecosystem 
 of software that we can offer the industry as a
 whole. What I think we 
 want is to show that we can build a cathedral, but
 do it in the bazaar. 
 We need something that looks like objectweb.org, but
 in health. Putting 
 openly developed standards together with openly
 developed software is 
 the key to the future in my view, and we should be
 developing the 
 necessary thinking now; the conference is an ideal
 opportunity to aim 
 for exposing such ideas.

Openly developed standards with openly developed
software is my own favorite phrase too :-)


Nandalal
 
 - thomas
 
 



 

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Re: [openhealth] Re: [Fwd: [FOSS-PDI] OSHCA Conference - Preliminary Announcement]

2007-01-17 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne


--- Molly Cheah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Open Source is also a open standard of software
development! We need to define/re-define these open
standards, remove the obsolete and invoke those of the
future.

As for objective 4, we need to discuss this now rather
than wait. Think big and start small is perhaps the
way to go?

Nandalal


 Thanks for the suggestion, Stephen. I have added as
 suggested but 
 include the word open to standards  as in
 Objective 4. These 
 objectives and tentative programme is in our
 web-portal. The programme 
 is tentative and to be discussed at the Openhealth
 list as well. I will 
 post this discussion to the Openhealth list to see
 if the FOSS community 
 wish to add further to this. The Conference
 programme can be found here:
 http://oshca.org/conference/conf2007/conf2007prog
 
 Conference Objectives:
 
1. Share and review current FOSS applications in
 healthcare
2. Share and review current technologies in
 healthcare software
3. Conceptualise and define OSHCA's role in
 managing FOSS
   collaborative services
4. Explore the role of open standards in
 facilitating interoperable
   health information communication
5. Promote OSHCA and its activities particularly
 to IT and healthcare
   communities in ASEAN/Asia-Pacific region
6. Promote the advantages of using FOSS
 applications to managers of
   healthcare facilities in public and private
 sectors in the
   ASEAN/Asia-Pacific region.
 
 For the information of the FOSS community, APAMI
 stands for Asia-Pacific 
 Association for Medical Informatics, which is an
 affiliate of IMIA. I 
 believe Peter Murray is at the Openhealth list and
 would be happy to get 
 his views on the OSHCA conference. Perhaps I should
 add here that 
 Objective 3 is important to OSHCA in preparation and
 anticipation of the 
 IDRC's Pan Asia eHealth Research Network Programme
 2006-2011. OSI's 
 information programme has special interests for
 funding FOSS projects 
 around open standards.
 
 Rgds,
 Molly
 Stephen Chu wrote:
 
   
  Hi, Molly:
   
  If interoperability is one of the focus of the
 conference, I suggest 
  that you add one more item to the existing
 conference objectivies:
  Explore the role of standards in facilitating
 interoperable health 
  information communication.
   
  We can certainly discuss how national and
 international standards and 
  information infrastructure building play a role in
 interoperable 
  health information communication.
   
  Regards,
   
  Stephen
 
   
  On 1/17/07, *Molly Cheah* [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
  Hi Klaus,
 
  I spoke to HM just now and I think in
 principle there shouldn't be a
  problem co-organising with APAMI. We have
 already obtained some
  support
  from UNDP-APDIP's IOSN programme (with the
 help of Alvin Marcelo) It
  would be great to also get support from HL7
 Australia and NZ,
  since our
  focus is on interoperability and data
 exchange. No doubt our target
  applications are FOSS applications and as such
 presentations of
  applications and technology used will be
 restricted to FOSS.
 
  If May 8-11 (tuesday to friday) is acceptable,
 we'll work towards
  those
  dates, making available time for those
 attending HIMSS in
  Singapore, the
  opportunity to take off  for a 3-day exclusive
 getaway  in
  bungalows by
  the sea in Pulau Langkawi or anywhere else,
 before  going down
  south to
  S'pore. This is VMY2007 :).
 
  Would May 8-12 (Wednesday to Saturday) a
 better alternative? I'm
  copying
  this e-mail discussion on the dates to the
 OSHCA committee to avoid me
  having to repeat the views expressed.
 
  Rgds,
  Molly
  Klaus Veil wrote:
 
  
   Molly,
  
   I think an association with APAMI would be
 very beneficial to OSHCA
   2007 and
   the FOSS approach in general.
  
   We could also explore if HL7 Australia and
 HL7 NZ would be able to
   provide
   some backing...
  
   Klaus
  
   -Original Message-
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
  Behalf Of
   Molly Cheah
   Sent: Wednesday, 17 January 2007 14:52
   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Subject: Re: [Fwd: [FOSS-PDI] OSHCA
 Conference - Preliminary
   Announcement]
  
  
   Dear Stephen,
  
   Thank you for your assistance to promote
 this event. I'm hoping
  that
   APAMI
   may come in as co-organisers. Can't seem to
 get hold of HM Goh
  to discuss
   this. Klaus suggested that the date be moved
 to May 8-11 to avoid
   clashing
   with some of the other HL7 meetings, as well
 as convience for those
   attending the HIMSS Asia-Pacific event on
 15-17 in Singapore.
  
   I don't think

Re: [openhealth] SCALE talk

2007-01-14 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne


--- David Forslund [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thanks David. Please clarify the following for me:

The MPI has to be global to be of any use, each human
being being uniquely identified. To what layer/level
the identification entities can be extended, maybe of
concern to individuals and countries. WIll this affect
the lobal application of unique identifiers?


Nandalal

 OpenEMed continues to be in modest development but
 perhaps not visible at a higher level.  The MPI work
 is based on the OMG PIDS standard.  It is open
 source and has been so since 2000.  The next
 generation of PIDS will result from the current
 EIS RFP from the OMG which is currently
 soliciting responses.  The EIS is a joint effort
 of the OMG and HL7.   We would like to provide
 an implementation of EIS as part of OpenEMed and
 are soliciting help in anyone interested in doing
 so.
 
 Dave
 Nandalal Gunaratne wrote:
 
  Hello Will,
 
  I do not see any MPI projects in the OpenHRE
 except
  the description of four Patient-Data Matching
  Software.
 
  The OpenEMed project is somewhat dormant and did
 not
  have a fully developed MPI software based on it's
  Person identification service. I am not sure if
 during
  the aborted Phoenix project anything was done
 regards
  the development of an MPI using OpenEMed, except
 the
  Patient identification terminology service itself.
 
  Therfore your peoject maybe the first open-source
 one,
  if it is used for this purpose in the future.
 
  Please correct me if I am wrong.
 
  Nandalal
  --- Will Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 mailto:wross%40openhre.org wrote:
 
   Hello World,
  
   Like Fred I'm also speaking at SCALE. During the
   afternoon at SCALE
   my presentation will discuss FOSS options for
 MPI
   solutions.
   Here's my short list of open source MPI
 projects:
  
   [1] OpenEMed
   [2] OpenHRE
  
   If you know of any further FOSS options for MPI,
   please send me links
   to the MPI project(s). Also, Dr. Stuart Turner
 and
   I have launched
   a small portal to persistently track FOSS
 options
   for MPI solutions.
  
   http://www.openempi.org/
 http://www.openempi.org/
  
   All comments and suggestions are welcome.
  
   With best regards,
  
   [wr]
  
   - - - - - - - -
   On Jan 11, 2007, at 7:31 AM, Fred Trotter wrote:
  
Hello OpenHealth,
I hope you are all aware of the SCALE
   healthcare day...
   
http://www.socallinuxexpo.com/healthcare07/ 
  http://www.socallinuxexpo.com/healthcare07/
   
If you can make it you should, the
   speakers line up is
full of
real players in our industry.
   
I am scheduled to talk on Whats
   going on in
healthcare the
intent of my talk is to give a summary about
 what
   is REALLY going
on in Free
and Open Source Healthcare. I want to talk
 about
   what projects are
moving
and which projects are dead. I want to talk
 about
   what we as a larger
community are doing well with and what we as a
   community are doing
poorly
with. In short I want to present my audience
 with
   useful bias as
opposed to
mere information.
   
I fully intend to make some bold
   statements about the
state of
our industry. But I do not want to do that
 without
   having more
information
about what is really happening. So I am
 turning
   this question on the
community? What IS going on in Free and Open
   Source Healthcare?
Here are the
areas that I would like commentary on. Please
 feel
   free to comment
on areas
that I am overlooking.
   
First whats going on in medical imaging? ie
 Osiris
   
Second what is happening in
   Genomics/Protenomics/Cell Modeling? i.e.
http://www.bioconductor.org/
 http://www.bioconductor.org/
   
What is happening in decision
 support/diagnostics?
   OpenPsyc etc etc
   
Clinical Trial/ Research Software ie OIO
   
Drug Database - i.e. Uversa effort
   
EHR clinical i.e. MirrorMed/ClearHealth -- VOE
   
EHR hospital ie. VistA/Care2x
   
PHR ie Indivo
   
Interoperability/MPI Mirth/OHF etc etc.
   
There are lots of fine project lists out
 there. I
   do not want
information
that I could find on Google. I want the inside
   scoop! Who are the
loosers
who are the winners. In some of these areas I
   already know the
answers, and
I simply need a gut-check. In other areas I am
   truly ignorant. Feel
free to
email me privately if you want something to be
   off-the-record.
   
Regards,
   
--
Fred Trotter
http://www.fredtrotter.com
 http://www.fredtrotter.com
   
  
   - - - - - - - -
  
   [wr]
  
   - - - - - - - -
  
   will ross
   project manager
   mendocino informatics
   216 west perkins street, suite 206
   ukiah, california 95482 usa
   707.462.6369 [office]
   707.462.5015 [fax]
   www.minformatics.com
  
   - - - - - - - -
  
   Getting people to adopt common standards is
 impeded
   by patents.
   Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS

Re: [openhealth] SCALE talk

2007-01-13 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

Hello Will,

I do not see any MPI projects in the OpenHRE except
the description of four Patient-Data Matching
Software.

The OpenEMed project is somewhat dormant and did not
have a fully developed MPI software based on it's
Person identification service. I am not sure if during
the aborted Phoenix project anything was done regards
the development of an MPI using OpenEMed, except the
Patient identification terminology service itself.

Therfore your peoject maybe the first open-source one,
if it is used for this purpose in the future.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Nandalal
--- Will Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hello World,
 
 Like Fred I'm also speaking at SCALE.   During the
 afternoon at SCALE  
 my presentation will discuss FOSS options for MPI
 solutions. 
 Here's my short list of open source MPI projects:
 
[1] OpenEMed
[2] OpenHRE
 
 If you know of any further FOSS options for MPI,
 please send me links  
 to the MPI project(s).   Also, Dr. Stuart Turner and
 I have launched  
 a small portal to persistently track FOSS options
 for MPI solutions.
 
http://www.openempi.org/
 
 All comments and suggestions are welcome.
 
 With best regards,
 
 [wr]
 
 - - - - - - - -
 On Jan 11, 2007, at 7:31 AM, Fred Trotter wrote:
 
  Hello OpenHealth,
   I hope you are all aware of the SCALE
 healthcare day...
 
  http://www.socallinuxexpo.com/healthcare07/
 
   If you can make it you should, the
 speakers line up is  
  full of
  real players in our industry.
 
   I am scheduled to talk on Whats
 going on in  
  healthcare the
  intent of my talk is to give a summary about what
 is REALLY going  
  on in Free
  and Open Source Healthcare. I want to talk about
 what projects are  
  moving
  and which projects are dead. I want to talk about
 what we as a larger
  community are doing well with and what we as a
 community are doing  
  poorly
  with. In short I want to present my audience with
 useful bias as  
  opposed to
  mere information.
 
I fully intend to make some bold
 statements about the  
  state of
  our industry. But I do not want to do that without
 having more  
  information
  about what is really happening. So I am turning
 this question on the
  community? What IS going on in Free and Open
 Source Healthcare?  
  Here are the
  areas that I would like commentary on. Please feel
 free to comment  
  on areas
  that I am overlooking.
 
  First whats going on in medical imaging? ie Osiris
 
  Second what is happening in
 Genomics/Protenomics/Cell Modeling? i.e.
  http://www.bioconductor.org/
 
  What is happening in decision support/diagnostics?
 OpenPsyc etc etc
 
  Clinical Trial/ Research Software ie OIO
 
  Drug Database - i.e. Uversa effort
 
  EHR clinical i.e. MirrorMed/ClearHealth -- VOE
 
  EHR hospital ie. VistA/Care2x
 
  PHR ie Indivo
 
  Interoperability/MPI Mirth/OHF etc etc.
 
  There are lots of fine project lists out there. I
 do not want  
  information
  that I could find on Google. I want the inside
 scoop! Who are the  
  loosers
  who are the winners. In some of these areas I
 already know the  
  answers, and
  I simply need a gut-check. In other areas I am
 truly ignorant. Feel  
  free to
  email me privately if you want something to be
 off-the-record.
 
  Regards,
 
  -- 
  Fred Trotter
  http://www.fredtrotter.com
 
 
 - - - - - - - -
 
 [wr]
 
 - - - - - - - -
 
 will ross
 project manager
 mendocino informatics
 216 west perkins street, suite 206
 ukiah, california  95482  usa
 707.462.6369 [office]
 707.462.5015 [fax]
 www.minformatics.com
 
 - - - - - - - -
 
 Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded
 by patents.
  Sir Tim Berners-Lee,  BCS, 2006
 
 - - - - - - - -
 
 
 
 



 

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Re: [openhealth] SCALE talk

2007-01-13 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne


--- Tim Churches [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 The African project OpenMRS (see
 http://openmrs.org/wiki/OpenMRS ) is,
 to my mind, the most exciting open source clinical
 application at
 present, in the field, good technical underpinnings,
 and charging ahead.
 
Thanks Tim for this info, I was not aware of this
project. It seems to be in development stage yet, and
the link is
http://openmrs.org

It is using the same FOSS software as OSCAR

BTW OSCAR  is alive and well too!

 GNUmed (http://www.gnumed.org/ ), which is also
 technically very good,
 is finally getting somewhere after many, many years
 of effort.
 
  EHR hospital ie. VistA/Care2x
 
 I take my hat off to the Hospital OS team in
 Thailand:
 http://www.hospital-os.com/en/
 

Yes, unfortunately the English version of the new 3.0
is not available yet


  PHR ie Indivo
  
  Interoperability/MPI Mirth/OHF etc etc.
 
 Mirth looks exciting and well-executed, and we are
 keen to use it. Has
 anyone tested it or used it for serious work?
 
 Public health/epidemiology (think avian/pandemic
 influenza):
 
 OpenEpi is a useful tool: http://www.openepi.com/
 
 Our own NetEpi project (see http://www.netepi.org )
 is approaching its
 Version 1.0 release - V1.0beta and updated Web site
 by the end of Jan
 2007, plus, I hope, a bootable liveCD demo disc,
 with V1.0 final to
 follow in Feb.

The disaster Mangament Project Sahana, is developing a
module for pandemics, and I will be joining in it's
finalizing touches soon.

http://www.sahana.lk/

Nandalal
 
 Tim C
 



 

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Re: [openhealth] Please help out my little website.

2007-01-08 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

Done!
:-)
--- Ignacio Valdes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hello all,
 
 I've written an original book review on Marcel
 Gagne's Moving to Free
 Software book on Linux Medical News. Book reviews
 tend to generate a
 lot of traffic for a website but the current queen
 of it all is Digg.
 If you have an account on digg.com and would like to
 help out my
 little website, please take a moment of time to vote
 for this
 well-written article to appear on the front page of
 digg, by going to
 this page:
 

http://digg.com/linux_unix/Book_Review_Moving_to_Free_Software
 
 and clicking the 'digg it' link to the left.
 
 -- IV
 


__
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Re: [openhealth] Open standards are meaningless.

2006-12-03 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne


--- David Forslund [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I think
 EHR applications should be interoperable without
 having to use the same
 underlying code.   Given some time and effort I
 would like to show that 
 OpenEMed
 can accommodate the OpenEHR specifications. 

Since the archetypes are central to the OpenEHR and
these are in turn dependent on terminologies,
ontologies and vocabualries, how does OpenEMed support
this? Is the Terminology Query Service sufficient to
support these?





 

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Re: [openhealth] Re: GPs Revolt

2006-12-01 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

Thanks for the information.
Nandalal
--- David Chan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 PING is now called Indivo (http://indivohealth.org/)
 and the recent conference generated a lot of
 interests:
 http://www.pchri.org/2006/
 
 Best regards,
 David
  
 David H Chan, MD, CCFP, MSc, FCFP
 Associate Professor
 Department of Family Medicine
 McMaster University
 
 - Original Message 
 From: Nandalal Gunaratne [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: openhealth@yahoogroups.com
 Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 10:41:32 AM
 Subject: Re: [openhealth] Re: GPs Revolt
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
 Why not hand over the keeping of the
 patient records
 
 to patients ( like PING), where clinicians just
 upload
 
 to this, and they also carry it with them in a
 storage
 
 format that is secure and easily accessible?
 
 
 
 The National Health Card Taiwan
 
 http://www.gi- de.com/portal/ page?_pageid=
 42,55000 _dad=portal _schema=PORTAL
 
 
 
 --- Will Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] org wrote:
 
 
 
  thomas,
 
  
 
  i appreciate your concern for what you allege is
 dr.
 
  grove's naivete,  
 
  but i share dr. grove's concern that when it comes
 
  to intelligent  
 
  health information systems, the perfect is the
 enemy
 
  of the good.
 
  in the age of wikis, soa, voip, wifi and rfid
 there
 
  is no reason we  
 
  cannot leverage existing secure internet transport
 
  and composing  
 
  capabilities to substantially improve the
 
  interoperability of  
 
  existing clinical text and image files.   when i
 
  look at where dr.  
 
  grove's fire is directed  --  at overpriced
 
  enterprise packages that  
 
  deliberately build new proprietary silos  --  i
 find
 
  an ally who is  
 
  saying the right disruptive things to people who
 
  would never listen  
 
  to me.
 
  
 
  with best regards,
 
  
 
  [wr]
 
  
 
  - - - - - - - -
 
  
 
  On Nov 26, 2006, at 11:52 PM, Thomas Beale wrote:
 
  
 
   Will Ross wrote:
 
   With regard to the underestimated complexity of
 
  Healthcare IT, the
 
   recent comments by Andrew Grove are relevant.
 
  
 
   But a key problem with this plan is the lack
 of
 
  a good medical
 
   records system, Grove said. His solution? Not
 the
 
  complicated,
 
   expensive medical record-keeping system that
 many
 
  companies and
 
   health-care providers are trying to develop,
 but
 
  something much
 
   simplerthe use of existing mass-produced
 
  technologies. 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 http://news- service.stanford .edu/news/
 2006/november8/ med-
 
   grove-110806. html
 
  
 
  
 
   classic complete naivete:
 
  
 
   Although there's debate about how to create a
 
  record that would be
 
   accessible to a range of providers and still
 
  protect files, Grove
 
   presented a simple answer: Keep medical records
 
  on a Web-accessible
 
   word-processing file.
 
  
 
   It costs nothing because it's already in
 place,
 
  Grove said. The
 
   technology already exists.
 
  
 
 
=== message truncated ===



 

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Re: [openhealth] Re: GPs Revolt

2006-11-28 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

I would certainly like to help. Since I am a Surgeon
interested in HIT (rather than a HIT specialist
interested in surgery!), tell me how I could help, and
I most certainly will.

Best regards

Nandalal
--- Thomas Beale [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Will Ross wrote:
 
  in other words, in my neighborhood a bunch of
 electronic clinical  
  documents that are easily organized, securely
 stored and safely  
  shared is an improvement over the current regime
 of inaccessible  
  paper and electronic silos.   and when
 semantically interoperable  
  solutions arrive, we can consider them, if they
 are practical and  
  suit the site level business processes of primary
 care.
 

 I take your point Will, that's completely fair. In
 terms of what has 
 arrived so far, we actually have proper openEHR
 systems running now, 
 full archetyping, templating and so on. Ours (Ocean
 Informatics) is 
 being trialled in a number of countries.
 Functionally it does about 85% 
 of everything openEHR promises, including templates,
 supporting 
 archetype-based queries in a new query language
 (looks like SQL  Xpath; 
 this will be published soon), and the other 15%
 won't be long.
 
 I would like to know if anyone here is interested in
 being able to play 
 with a demonstration system (located in Australia)
 over a web-service 
 (published API); currently you would write C# code
 against a client-side 
 DLL - the idea is to use the openEHR repository as a
 proper versioned, 
 archetyped, semantically queryable back-end. This
 would be for the 
 purpose of evaluating openEHR in a hands-on way. I
 don't want to get 
 into arguments about open source at the moment -
 today it is closed 
 source, but it will become open source as soon as we
 find an economic 
 model that pays for what we release before we
 release it (and in any 
 case, everything that we learn becomes part of the
 openEHR 
 specifications, and eventually the Java project). So
 the offer is for 
 people interested in contributing to openEHR /
 e-Health progress in 
 general, with all feedback (code if wished) being
 made public.
 
 - thomas beale
 
 



 

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Re: [openhealth] Re: GPs Revolt

2006-11-27 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

Why not hand over the keeping of the patient records
to patients ( like PING), where clinicians just upload
to this, and they also carry it with them in a storage
format that is secure and easily accessible?

The National Health Card Taiwan
http://www.gi-de.com/portal/page?_pageid=42,55000_dad=portal_schema=PORTAL




--- Will Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 thomas,
 
 i appreciate your concern for what you allege is dr.
 grove's naivete,  
 but i share dr. grove's concern that when it comes
 to intelligent  
 health information systems, the perfect is the enemy
 of the good.
 in the age of wikis, soa, voip, wifi and rfid there
 is no reason we  
 cannot leverage existing secure internet transport
 and composing  
 capabilities to substantially improve the
 interoperability of  
 existing clinical text and image files.   when i
 look at where dr.  
 grove's fire is directed  --  at overpriced
 enterprise packages that  
 deliberately build new proprietary silos  --  i find
 an ally who is  
 saying the right disruptive things to people who
 would never listen  
 to me.
 
 with best regards,
 
 [wr]
 
 - - - - - - - -
 
 On Nov 26, 2006, at 11:52 PM, Thomas Beale wrote:
 
  Will Ross wrote:
  With regard to the underestimated complexity of
 Healthcare IT, the
  recent comments by Andrew Grove are relevant.
 
  But a key problem with this plan is the lack of
 a good medical
  records system, Grove said. His solution? Not the
 complicated,
  expensive medical record-keeping system that many
 companies and
  health-care providers are trying to develop, but
 something much
  simplerthe use of existing mass-produced
 technologies.
 


http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2006/november8/med-
  grove-110806.html
 
 
  classic complete naivete:
 
  Although there's debate about how to create a
 record that would be
  accessible to a range of providers and still
 protect files, Grove
  presented a simple answer: Keep medical records
 on a Web-accessible
  word-processing file.
 
  It costs nothing because it's already in place,
 Grove said. The
  technology already exists.
 
  there's nothing more to say.
 
  - thomas beale
 
 
 
 
 
  Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 
 
 
 
 [wr]
 
 - - - - - - - -
 
 will ross
 project manager
 mendocino informatics
 216 west perkins street, suite 206
 ukiah, california  95482  usa
 707.462.6369 [office]
 707.462.5015 [fax]
 www.minformatics.com
 
 - - - - - - - -
 
 Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded
 by patents.
  Sir Tim Berners-Lee,  BCS, 2006
 
 - - - - - - - -
 
 
 
 
 
  
 Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 
 
 



 

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Re: [openhealth] Re: GPs Revolt

2006-11-26 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

I presume you mean that holding it at the GP level is
far more stable for the patient?

Admin/manager changes can vary, and their approach to
change as well. THerefore it all depends. As for
change in underwear, this could vary as well, if you
listen to this story :-)

A customs officer was checking the bags at an airport,
and there were three persons in a row. The first one
had just one underwear, and the officer asked, just
one? with some surprise.  I wash it daily said the
first person. The second had seven, and he said One
for each day of the week. The third was a lady,
really impressive having a dozen, until she said  One
is for January, One is for February

Similarly, the changes in administration is not
directly proportional to system changes and therefore
to stability.

The GP may not be good at keeping his data safe and if
he is running windows without updating his virus
guard, the EHR could just be gone with the wind

--- Adrian Midgley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Thomas Beale wrote:
 
 
  Having the shared EHR literally at the GP clinic
 is unlikely to be a
  good approach for technical reasons, even though
 the GP will in many
  cases be the best gatekeeper. A better solution is
 on secure servers at
  about the level of the primary care trust (UK)
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 ** Stability **
 
 We just lost 400 of those!
 
 I trained in a general practice which was then in
 its third century of
 continuous provision of medical care in its
 district.  It had not been
 computerised so long, but since then it has changed
 systems, perforce,
 once already.  (It also had a different building,
 different partners,
 and different patients, although significantly it
 had some of the same
 families on the list, I do not doubt.)
 
 General practices endure.  Hospitals likewise.
 
 Health service administrative organisations are
 changed a  little slower
 than underwear, but are far from constant.  And the
 persistence of
 information between two avatars of essentially the
 same admin-org is
 similar to that on underwear.
 
 And that is the way the admindroids taking control
 of each new spasm
 like it - each wheel is reinvented, every 3 to 5
 years.
 
 I agree about the technical reasons, but continuity
 is a huge merit.
 
 
 
 



 

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Re: [openhealth] Re: GPs Revolt

2006-11-26 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

10 years ago! Do you think that is still valid, now?
Have you changed your views since then?

If the patients record is held in different places,
how does the patient keep up with the changes? Is it
his responsibility to keep it completed and upto date?

Maybe he should carry the version wth him in a e-card
of some sort, especially in this era, when people are
moving from country to country and suddenly need their
records in a strange land!

--- David Forslund [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Absolutely not!  I do want the patient to be in
 control
 of his/her data, with GPs assisting.  I believe in a
 distributed
 EMR with control by the patient.  Sometimes we
 called
 this a Virtual Medical/Patient Record (about 10
 years ago in a
 journaled publication).
 
 Dave
 Nandalal Gunaratne wrote:
 
  IT would seem to me that, what you favour is a
 system
  where, all patients will have their EMR with their
 GPs
  and nobody else and nowhere else. What is done in
 a
  hospital encounter, for example a Urological
 Surgery,
  Cardioloical tests, CT scan reports, will be sent
 to
  the GP for inclusion in the EMR. For this these
 must
  be interoperable with each other.
 
  Making the GP the crux of EMR development,
 recording
  and storing, makes sense as it is patient based.
 He
  will decide as to whom he will provide access? HE
 has
  also to ensure access without fail to the patient
 in
  an emergency, which may happen in another country
 at
  an ungodly hour.
 
  Unfortunately not every country has such a well
  developed, GP based system, as in the UK.
 
  Nandalal
 
  --- Adrian Midgley [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  mailto:amidgley2%40defoam.net wrote:
 
   David Forslund wrote:
  
   I tend to think that my notes, made by me, and
   sitting where they
   currently sit, upstairs in my Practice building,
   mean something.
  
   It is clear to me that anyone else who gets to
 read
   them, now or later,
   makes their own judgement about what they mean
 and
   to what degree of
   relevance and reliability, and so do I for
 others'
   notes.
  
   So providing the means for other people to
 negotiate
   access to my stored
   notes seems sensible, they will interpret them
 in
   the light of whatever
   is going on, and the next person will do _their_
 own
   thing.
  
   Pushing them all into one heap, or passing them
   around into everyone's
   heap until none of us know which are ours and
 which
   are some
   school-leaver's is a different and semantically
   inferior process.
  
   --
   A
  
 
 

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Re: [openhealth] Re: GPs Revolt

2006-11-24 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne


--- Adrian Midgley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
as The Rt Hon Mr
 Anthony Blair MP steps back to being a back bench
 MP, the plan is likely
 to fall apart.
 
I hope not! In the sense that the NHS forgets about
plans for EMR. Maybe a more sensible and practical
approach will result?

Nandalal

 
 -- 
 Midgley
 Not by any means an astute political commentator,
 but occasionally known
 to get it right.
 



 

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Re: [openhealth] Re: GPs Revolt

2006-11-24 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

IT would seem to me that, what you favour is a system
where, all patients will have their EMR with their GPs
and nobody else and nowhere else. What is done in a
hospital encounter, for example a Urological Surgery,
Cardioloical tests, CT scan reports, will be sent to
the GP for inclusion in the EMR. For this these must
be interoperable with each other.

Making the GP the crux of EMR development, recording
and storing, makes sense as it is patient based. He
will decide as to whom he will provide access? HE has
also to ensure access without fail to the patient in
an emergency, which may happen in another country at
an ungodly hour.

Unfortunately not every country has such a well
developed, GP based system, as in the UK. 

Nandalal

--- Adrian Midgley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 David Forslund wrote:
 
 I tend to think that my notes, made by me, and
 sitting where they
 currently sit, upstairs in my Practice building,
 mean something.
 
 It is clear to me that anyone else who gets to read
 them, now or later,
 makes their own judgement about what they mean and
 to what degree of
 relevance and reliability, and so do I for others'
 notes.
 
 So providing the means for other people to negotiate
 access to my stored
 notes seems sensible, they will interpret them in
 the light of whatever
 is going on, and the next person will do _their_ own
 thing.
 
 Pushing them all into one heap, or passing them
 around into everyone's
 heap until none of us know which are ours and which
 are some
 school-leaver's is a different and semantically
 inferior process.
 
 -- 
 A
 



 

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Re: [openhealth] Needed: (mammographic) recall with some tracking

2006-10-14 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

that could

 prompt and print mammogram requests over the 10
 years of our
 surveillance?
What do they mean exactly by requests?

 Ideally it would be a program which
 would also act as a
 very basic database of patients such that we could
 recall all basic
 details (i.e. Node positives or Grade 3s) for audit
 and research etc.
 

Strangely there are hardly any open source programs to
do this sort of thing - research and audit. They are
made for either clinical practice or for full blown
EMRs.

I suppose one could use open office base to make a
small database which one could query.

The best FOSS program for research and audit that I
have seen and use is Open Infrastructure for Outcomes.
However it is complicated to setup, unless they
download and use the LiveOIO CD or, are adventerous
enough to do the setting up. So far, it cannot be used
in Windows, but can be used as a livecd and the data
saved to a usb or HDD running Windows. If they use
Linux and a debian variant like Ubuntu, things become
simpler.

If any programs for research and audit are available,
I would like to hear about them and compare with OIO.

Best regards

Nandalal

 
 What approach does the panel favour to offering a
 supportable open
 source approach to this?
 
 -- 
 Adrian Midgley
 
 


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Re: [openhealth] FOIAVistA SemiVivA 20060615 available

2006-06-27 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

You said:
 As always, critiques, comments and questions are
 welcome.

Are you serious?

If you are, let me request that a document on how to
use this, once installed, with a real example, with
screenshots where necessary be put up. Without this it
is useless. The LiveCD you kindly sent me was not
helpful for the above reason.

http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=342412

The questions asked in this forum also show what I am
talking about. You said:
I don't know enough about VistA to tell you how to
run it. For that, you will need to join the mailing
list

This is not quite OK. Do you know anyone who will
write a document specific to your downloadable
version? I am sure if we can get it working, we can
send you some documentation for the WorldVistA version
ourselves!

Nandalal

--- K.S. Bhaskar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Downloadable from the WorldVistA project page at
 Source Forge 
 (http://sourceforge.net/projects/worldvista), FOIA
 VistA SemiVivA 
 20060615 is a package of FOIA VistA June 15, 2006
 with OR_30_215 and 
 GT.M V5.1-000.  To install, download the release to
 a directory, e.g., 
 /Distrib.  Then as root excute:
 
 cd /usr/local
 tar zxvf /Distrib/FOIAVistASemiVivA20060615.tgz
 
 This will create the needed subdirectories off
 /usr/local.  Then, to 
 install a development environment, e.g., in
 ~/myVistA, execute as a 
 normal user:
 
 /usr/local/FOIAVistA20060615/install ~/myVistA
 
 Once a development environment is installed, you can
 run it (as a normal 
 user) with:
 
 ~/myVistA/run
 
 Or to start at an entry point, e.g., P^DI:
 
 ~/myVistA/run P^DI
 
 As always, critiques, comments and questions are
 welcome.
 
 -- Bhaskar
 


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Re: [openhealth] Re: VistA Office as 'open' EHR software

2006-06-27 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

CPRS source is in the public domain but needs Delphi
to run. The version runs only in Windows. It can be
made to run in Linux using Wine, but just barely.

A commercial organization has come forward to create
something based on Wine that will run CPRS in Linux,
as well as it does in Windows. Therefore it will
remain dependent on a commercial product even on
linux! But if it works, this is acceptable in my
opinion, as CPRS itself can be modified by anyone
subsequently.

Nandalal

--- Gregory Woodhouse
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Jun 25, 2006, at 5:18 AM, Nandalal Gunaratne
 wrote:
 
  In addition, there can be claims for various
  developers of the GUI for VistA, which was not in
 the
  Public Domain.
 
  Nandalal
 
 I'm unsure what you mean here. CPRS was built using
 a commercial  
 product called Delphi. but the source is in the
 public domain.  
 Granted, if someone set out today to develop an open
 source product,  
 this would be an unlikely platform choice, but
 that's not the way  
 VistA started out life. I believe that alternative
 user interfaces  
 have been developed as well, but they are different
 products, not  
 VistA. There are a few options for building GUI
 interfaces to VistA,  
 and there is nothing to stop developers from
 building new GUI  
 applications for use in  conjunction with VistA if
 they wish.
 
 Gregory Woodhouse
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Judge a man by his questions not
 his answers.   --Voltaire
 
 
 
 
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been
 removed]
 
 


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Re: [openhealth] Re: VistA Office as 'open' EHR software

2006-06-25 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

Thank you for clearing many things. However, the way
VistA is developing and branching out, will create
many problems in the future. I hope World Vista takes
suitable precautions to ensure that future users of
the FOSS version of World VistA, will not get into
difficulties as you have pointed out in your last
sentence.

In addition, there can be claims for various
developers of the GUI for VistA, which was not in the
Public Domain.

Nandalal

--- sickleofzeus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

While I have not studied the MUMPS licensing issues
 closely, mixing
 proprietary licensing with public domain domain
 software causes
 problems.  It is not clear how VistA is going to be
 able to surmount
 these legal quandaries.



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Re: [openhealth] VistA Office as 'open' EHR software

2006-06-23 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

Thanks Joseph, for the clarification. It is good to know that the value of the 
open source model is becoming more accepted and that in the future, GUI based 
versions of VistA too, will be open source. 
 
 What type of open source licence is likely to be used for these 
implementations? Public Domain is a bit tricky on the legal front, as legally 
it is owned by the US Public, and therefore, the US government. They could 
refuse certain countries the free use of VistA for political reasons for 
example?
 
 Please clarify.
 
 Nandalal

Joseph Dal Molin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:   
Hopefully the following facts about VistA and VistA-Office (VOE) will 
 set the record straight about their claim to openness:
 
 First a couple of points of clarification: WorldVistA, not I, was 
 awarded the tender by the Iowa Foundation for Medical Care in May of 
 last year to establish the VistA-Office Vendor Support Organization 
 (VVSO). IFMC is the prime contractor to CMS for VistA-Office. My role 
 was writing the RFP response for WorldVistA and I am WorldVistA's 
 program manager for the VVSO.
 
 Regarding the Wisconsin QIO initiative that Dan mentioned: one of the 
 QIO's roles is to provide impartial advice to physicians to help them 
 select an EHR. The QIO's are funded to do this work by CMS. 
 Unfortunately the QIO's direct funding of a VOE port to Linux fell into 
 a gray area which would have created a potential for conflict of 
 interest. It was for this reason the parties involved decided it was 
 best not to proceed. Ironically, this disappointment was a blessing in 
 disguise as we have applied a large number of enhancements to VOE since 
 last summer, bringing it up to date with FOIA VistA. Our plans are to 
 port VOE to a full open source stack in the next couple of weeks.
 
 ...now to the discussion at hand
 
 ~ FOIA VistA (the version released under the Freedom of Information Act 
 by the VA) is public domain software and as such the source code is free 
 to be downloaded and used in any way you want. It can be downloaded from 
 the VA's FTP sitethis version requires a proprietary database to 
 run. Alternatively you can download a full open source stack of VistA 
 based on GT.M and Linux from the WorldVistA Sourceforge site 
 (www.worldvista.org). FOIA VistA has been available as public domain for 
 over 15 years through the VA. The open source stack has been available 
 from WorldVistA for about 3 years. It is an open source stack which is 
 currently being implemented by the Mexican government's IMSS healthcare 
 agency, which is implementing VistA in 200 public hospitals.
 
 ~ VistA Office EHR, whose development is funded by CMS (Centers for 
 Medicaid and Medicare) is currently in beta testing and will also be 
 made available primarily as public domain software when this process is 
 complete late this year. Although as I will explain shortly, some parts 
 of it will have an open source license. An evaluation version has been 
 available for download since last August by registering at the 
 WorldVistA VVSO web page (http://www.worldvista.org/vvso/add). The 
 software comes bundled with a vendor qualification test which we are 
 using to determine whether vendors are qualified to support VOE. So far 
 6 vendors have passed the test.
 
 Initial VOE development was indeed a closed processit was the 
 traditional contracting and development model you find in gov't and 
 private industry. This is not surprising given that the open source 
 model was very unfamiliar territory to CMS nearly 3 years ago when the 
 project was conceived. Over the past year the development process has 
 been gradually, all be it quietly, opening up. This in part was a result 
 of WorldVistA's role in the project expanding and because IFMC and CMS 
 became more familiar with the strategic value of the open source model 
 and how open, collaborative development can be managed. We have in the 
 past few months begun accepting external contributions to VOE and are 
 currently in the process of integrating code developed by VOE Solutions 
 (which is LGPL) and the Pacific Telehealth Hui. Suffice it to say that 
 the open source approach has become a key strategic building block for 
 VOE's future.
 
 The bottom line is that VistA, while public domain, is definitely open 
 source and has a large, growing and very active community of users and 
 developersjust visit the Hardhats mailing list archive on 
 Sourceforge. As for VOE, while its development was initially closed, the 
 plan has always been to make it available as public domain. The 
 development process for VOE is now open and as the full infrastructure 
 needed to support collaborative development is better established 
 community participation will be more proactively encouraged.
 
 Regards,
 
 Joseph
 VP Business Development, WorldVistA
 
 Tim Cook wrote:
  
  
  -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
  Hash: SHA1
  
  Hi Dan,

Re: [openhealth] VistA Office as 'open' EHR software

2006-06-21 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

I agree with Tim. VistA has a lot going for it, but there are some good fully 
FOSS projects that can be developed further. They are build on modern languages 
and well established FOSS - like LAMP. The end users are more IT literate now 
than at the time VistA started, and would like to be able to modify things 
easily themselves.
 
 I fail to see VistA developing in a true FOSS way, and the various 
implementations will cause legal confusion with time as to where the open 
source bits of software end and proprietary begins.
 
 Nandalal

Tim Cook [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:   -BEGIN 
PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 Hi Dan,
 
 Please note that this reply must be assumed to NOT be sarcastic.
 Just my (hopefully) reasoned, if pointed, opinion.
 
 Daniel L. Johnson wrote:
  
  But... this is our best hope for non-proprietary EHR software in the
  USA, and is worth pursuing.  
 
 I believe there is a lot of room for disagreement here. First of all are
 you distinguishing between VistA and VistA-Office?  Because at this
 point I would judge VistA-Office as proprietary if the code cannot be
 downloaded or even obtained through a FOIA request.
 
 The idea of this being a best hope is certainly misleading and I would
 like to know what facts you base that assertion on. There are other EMR
 applications that from all appearances are being supported rather
 successfully by dependable vendors.  The best part is that they already
 are open source, sustainable and experiencing incremental improvements
 through customer funded desires.  No softening needed.
 
  There's been considerable softening of the
  government position on use and sharing of VistA code, and so we all need
  to continue to encourage CMS (the agency formerly known as HCFA) to
  permit open, collaborative development on the VistA-Office code, and to
  support its use and propagation on open-source platforms.
 
 So for those that knowwho is the PERSON that we should encourage
 (within) CMS?  Pointing to a shapeless, soulless bureaucracy is not
 very helpful.
 
  A year ago, I had forged an initiative by the Wisconsin QIO (Quality
  Improvement Organization) to fund development of VistA-Office on Linux,
  and distribution, but we were prohibited by CMS from proceeding.
  
 
 That doesn't bode well for community supported, sustainable software now
 does it?
 
  Joseph Dal Molin was then awarded a contract by CMS to develop vendor
  training for VistA Office, and anyone who wants to form a company to
  support this open VistA Office is welcome to work with Joseph to help
  make this truly OS and collaborative.  Anyone who could do so, should.
  Otherwise, don't complain.
 
 The same can be said for end-users that constantly complain that they
 don't have an open source EMR when in fact there are several available
 if they were to make a decision to implement one and get on with it.  In
 fact, this is even an easier solution than forming a company based on
 supporting a proprietary MUMPS based EMR. Implementing an EMR is a
 painful process for the end-user, but essentially the same process no
 matter which one is chosen. Building a business supporting a proprietary
  EMR (defined as one where you do not have access to inspect the source
 code and participate in the ongoing design and development) would be a
 much greater financial risk. IMHO of course.
 
  In any case, VistA Office is committed to remaining code-compatible with
  the official VA system VistA, 
 
 So then there will only be one VistA?  IF not ... What are the
 differences?  Why the different name?
 
 and the VA is not currently willing to
   subject its code to free and open collaborative development 
 
 Ok.
 
 - -- so
  collaboration on VistA Office will have to occur in the presentation
  layer.
 
 So are you saying that someone (outside the VA) has or will start and
 run an open source VistA-Office presentation project?  I would be
 interested in hearing your sustainability model for that.  Certainly
 would be difficult to build a support business on it since any end-user
 willing to use a proprietary EMR would just as likely chose the
 proprietary presentation.
 
  This is not an entirely bad thing;
 ...and what part of that is not a bad thing for people that want to
 use and support open source software?
 
 and if that develops, my
  guess is that useful pressure could be put on the VA to crack open a
  bit.
 If what develops?  I didn't understand the context of that phrase.
 
  Dan Johnson, md
  (open-source EHR fan, 
 
 Hm, I would question the veracity of that characterization based on
 this email.
 
 QIO trustee,
 
 Very nice.
 
 simple backwoods internist)
  
 
 self-deprecation is seldom flattering.
 
 Cheers,
 Tim
 
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
 Version: GnuPG v1.4.3rc2 (MingW32)
 Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
 
 iD8DBQFEl+T9MOzvb7luwR0RAgYPAKCbiFRsFTzRVSbu0ADOtKF8qKudIQCgsdNR

Re: [openhealth] Re: OSHCA

2006-05-31 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

I second what Tim says. Do not think of the politics/politicians of the country concerned, but of the ordinary people of that country, who form the WASTE majority!

Your expertise is of value to them.

Tim.Churches [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David Forslund wrote:
I apologize for bringing this up, but it does affect my relationship
with OSHCA
since it is being incorporated in Malaysia. I will be unable to support
OSHCA
in Malaysia because of the politics/human rights issues I see happening
in that country.

I am sorry that you feel that way, Dave. However, it is your call and I
don't think it is productive or wise to try to change your mind.

We will have a separate OSHCA mailing list established very shortly
which will handle all OSHCA business, and this openhealth list can be
devoted purely to more general health informatics issues. I hope you
will continue to participate in the openhealth list, because your
technical expertise is greatly valued.

Tim C

K.S. Bhaskar wrote:
Please, let's keep the discussion on this mailing list focused on
Free/Libré and Open Source Software (with a broad interpretation of
software, so discussion of ICD codes and OSHCA incorporation are within
the scope of the group) as it pertains to healthcare. There are plenty
of other forums for other topics.

Thank you very much.

Regards
-- Bhaskar

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Re: [openhealth] Beyond standards.

2006-05-21 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

I think your argument to convince business is pretty good, if they are accepting it.

In the same way we mayed a way to convince them that the use of interoperability also saves them a lot of money in the long term and gives them bargaining power when purchasing software from different vendors.

Nandalal

Thomas Beale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David Forslund wrote:
I am familiar with this problem. It seems to me to stem from negotiating
the wrong kind of contract. I don't think FOSS helps that much because
the contracts seem to me to be negotiated from ignorance. If the local
organization demands interoperability BEFORE they sign a contract they
will have more power over the provider. If they don't understand the
technology

this is a little bit off the topic, but Dave's comments here just
reminded me to post something we have been finding useful in negotiating
contracts (as a software vendor) where the software is FOSS (my company,
Ocean Informatics is offering a GPL or commercial licence choice to
buyers). Anyway, recently we had a conversation during the negotiation
phase with one very large (typically skeptical) company that wanted our
software development expertise but of course wanted to own all the
software we developed for them. We on the other hand try to build things
very generically, and don't want to go around having to rewrite all the
time due to not having access to the IP. We took a pretty strong stance
in the negotiation on open source. In the end it came down to them
saying: why should we pay you to develop your product? Well, of course
we said the obvious things like:
- it's your product too. You set the requirements, not us
- you'll get the benefit of maintenance and bugfixing due to wider use
than just you
- etc

But in the end the argument that they understood was this:
- every piece of software has a total cost over its lifetime. It is
commonly accepted that the build cost to first deployment is roughly 30%
and that the cost of maintenance and enhancement over the remaining life
of the product is 70% (obviously this varies but it's a pretty common
figure given in the literature).
- so you (the customer) are paying for 30% of the total cost, upfront
for a generic component.
- we (the builder) pick up 70% of the cost, in an incremental ongoing
fashion.
- You get free access for the life of the product.

Now, if we just charge reasonable contracting rates to get the thing
built, the price the customer pays is the price of building it. But what
they get is a lifetime of use, including all updates, upgrades etc etc.

This is all obvious to people on this list, but not to most corporate
customers. I don't know if this particular way of justifying open source
in contracts is commonly used or described in the open source
literature, but for convincing hard-nosed businesses who are most
interested in monetary arguments, it works quite well.

- thomas beale

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Re: [openhealth] article re IBM and others contributing open source epi and other

2006-05-18 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

This is another interesting paragraph

A statement from IBM said the company will engage with industry leaders. But it did not mention whether it will coordinate efforts with the so-called Interoperability Consortiuma group of large IT vendors including IBM, Cisco Systems Inc., Microsoft Corp. and Oracle Corp.who banded together to call for open standards to be used in any national health information network.

Nanda

Heitzso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not sure what pieces of this are relevant, but it raised a flag for me
(was posted on LinuxToday.com). One of the interesting sentences:
IBM has created a software framework, IHII (Interoperable Healthcare
Information Infrastructure), to ease sharing of health data.

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1963157,00.asp

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Re: [openhealth] What to Call the OpenEMR/ClearHealth/FreeMed/MirrorMed Universe?

2006-05-13 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

Is NetEpi based on EpiInfo or something growing out of that?? I used EpiInfo it some years ago and can remember writing to the CDC to create a linux version :-)

Regards

Nanda Gunaratne

Tim.Churches [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ignacio Valdes wrote:
Linux Apache MySQL PHP server setups are so common that they have
their own designation, collectively called 'LAMP' applications. It
seems that in the United States, the hotbeds of FOSS Electronic
Medical Records (EMR)'s activity are falling into two universes: that
based upon the VA's VistA and a consortium of groups using a
combination of OpenEMR, ClearHealth, FreeMed, FreeB and MirrorMed
which also happen to be LAMP applications. Might there be a term
currently to call the latter? Could this apparently thriving community
invent one?

We use Linux, apache, Python and PostgreSQL for our NetEpi applications.
Does that make us LAPPlanders, or LAPPis (Wikipedia tells me that
Lappi is the Finnish name for Lapland).

Tim C

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Re: [openhealth] Standards -- more questions

2006-05-13 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

ICD-10 has tried to be more accurate in making the diagnosis, thereby going into great detail, with the obvious effects of bloat.

The ICD-10 -PCS is taking quite the opposite way of doing things, but could be difficult to get people to use it for this reason. They will not have their favorite ways of describing an operation, but will have to create it from set and defined nomenclature. I have personally used it in over 1000, mostly major, surgical procedures without any serious issues.

Nanda Gunaratne
Heitzso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do *strongly* recommend researching human engineering studies
re determine whether a fine granularity such as is provided by ICD-10,
which may be very accurate from a technical point of view, does, in
practice, provide more accuracy than a lower granularity encoding.
If such a study does not exist then some psychiatrists should be
consulted re the ability of humans when, under stress, to accurately
assign diseases to one of 10,000 buckets.

I do know that the CDC has to scrub all incoming data to get rid of
the obvious data encoding errors such as women with testicular diseases
and men with vaginal diseases. That scrubbing catches only the
obvious encoding problems.

Second, to at least understand the data inference problem imposed by a fine
granularity standard encoding when mapping from a lower granularity
to the finer granularity.

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Re: [openhealth] What to Call the OpenEMR/ClearHealth/FreeMed/MirrorMed Universe?

2006-05-13 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

Thank you for the detailed explanation. I will tell some people who are into epideomological aspects of healthcare to look at Netepi.

Regards

Nanda Gunaratne

Tim Churches [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nandalal Gunaratne wrote:
Is NetEpi based on EpiInfo or something growing out of that?? I used EpiInfo it
some years ago and can remember writing to the CDC to create a linux version :-)

Not based on Epi-Info but inspired by it - see http://www.netepi.info -
that page is rather out of date - we'll update it in the near future -
but the motivation behind the projects hasn't changed.

As far as I know CDC are not contemplating a version of Epi-Info for
non-MS-Windows platforms. There was an attempt about 5 or 6 years ago to
convert the old Epi-Info version 6 for MS-DOS to a Linux terminal mode
programme, but I understand that not all of the necessary source code
could be obtained from CDC under a Freedom of Information request, and
the project foundered.

I think that Jens Lauritsen hopes to create a Linux GUI version of
EpiData, which currently only runs on MS-Windows, at some stage - see
http://www.epidata.dk/ However EpiData is not open source, although Jens
says that it may become open source at some stage in the future.

Also, Andy Dean, one of the original authors of Epi-info, is now one of
the people behind the open source OpenEpi project - which provides
epidemiological calculators in pure _javascript_ - see http://www.openepi.com

Finally, we plan to create versions of both NetEpi Case Manager and
NetEpi Analysis which can run on MS-Windows machines as well as, as they
do at at present, on Linux, Unix and Mac OS X. The port to MS-Windows
should be fairly trivial, since the applications use Web browser
interfaces and the underlying infrastructure of Python and PostgreSQL
are both cross-platform, but in practice it is never quite that simple
and we want to complete Version 1.0 of each app first.

Tim C

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Re: [openhealth] Standards






James Busser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 This is the way it is and multiple licences are necessary depending on the number of users. Maybe things have changed recently?
 
 Nanda Gunaratne
 
 On May 11, 2006, at 8:23 AM, David Forslund wrote:
 
  In the US (and UK) SNOMED-CT is freely available. Do folks use the
  ICPC-2 spec? If so what do you all think of it?
 
 I thought it was only available freely within geographic boundaries 
 and, within that, possibly only to members of certain organizations. 
 Which limits the ability to roll it out more broadly. Is that correct 
 and is any significant loosening on the immediate horizon?
 

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Re: [openhealth] Standards -- more questions

Alvin B. Marcelo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Any thoughts about that statement? Can we actually call a standard open if there are limitations
to its implementation by FOSS?

No. Unless the limitation is due to the laziness of the FOSS developers ;-)

Nanda Gunaratne

alvin

--- Nandalal Gunaratne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Alvin B. Marcelo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You are quite right. Interoperability depends in turn on the agreement on standards. Coding
systems included.

Unfortunately the best nomenclature coding system is SNOMED-CT which is a proprietary product.
But I am sure the new versions of the ICD system will improve if they are widely used.

Can our group agree on such standards?

Nanda Gunaratne

However, my question to the group is: can there actually be interoperability
without agreement on coding systems? And if we accept the fact that yes we need to share coding
systems, what coding systems should these be and why. I believe this is an area where
openhealth
can greatly contribute by laying down these 'open' standards upon which future interoperabilty
can
be made more possible.

alvin

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Re: [openhealth] Standards -- more questions





 This is the ideal. But if the differences between the two are substantial, it could be a lot of work. IDC-9 was never made for electronic medical records - just paper. I am not sure if ICD-10 is, but it is more likely to be electronically usable. ICD-10-PCS on the other hand was made exclusively (almost!) for use in electronic databases.
 
 Nanda Gunaratne

Joseph Dal Molin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...some thoughts...
 
 What would standardizing on ICD-10 mean in the context of an 
 organization such as OSHCA given the reality the heterogenous landscape 
 of ICD adoption... what would this mean in real practice? What would 
 this imply for those systems using ICD - 9 for example? Would it be more 
 appropriate to support the notion of being able to plug in a standard 
 like ICD and use it than only a specific version?
 
 Joseph
 
 Alvin B. Marcelo wrote:
  First thread:
  
  I propose we standardize on ICD-10 (as a minimum). It's an international 
  standard anyway (albeit
  difficult to use). This of course does not preclude the others from 
  using SNOMED if they can
  afford to do so.
  
  That being the case, OSHCA can also 'standardize' on the preferred 
  mapping system between SNOMED
  to ICD-10. Any proposals?
  
  Molly, how do 'sweeping statements' like these get to be approved 
  officially by OSHCA?
  
  Second thread:
  
  An interesting insight I got at the last Regional Conference in Open 
  Standards sponsored by NECTEC
  and IOSN in Bangkok (May 2-4) -- an Intel smployee (Danese) emphasized 
  that open standards may
  only be considered open if they can be fully implemented by open source 
  software.
  
  Any thoughts about that statement? Can we actually call a standard open 
  if there are limitations
  to its implementation by FOSS?
  
  
  alvin
  
  
  
  
  
  --- Nandalal Gunaratne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  
  
   Alvin B. Marcelo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   You are quite right. Interoperability depends in turn on the 
  agreement on standards. Coding
   systems included.
   
   Unfortunately the best nomenclature coding system is SNOMED-CT which 
  is a proprietary product.
   But I am sure the new versions of the ICD system will improve if they 
  are widely used.
   
   Can our group agree on such standards?
   
   Nanda Gunaratne
   
   However, my question to the group is: can there actually be 
  interoperability
   without agreement on coding systems? And if we accept the fact that 
  yes we need to share coding
   systems, what coding systems should these be and why. I believe this 
  is an area where
   openhealth
   can greatly contribute by laying down these 'open' standards upon 
  which future interoperabilty
   can
   be made more possible.
   
   alvin
   
  
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Re: [openhealth] Standards -- more questions

David Forslund [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Yes. Let us decide which of these nationally decided ones we should support.

Regards

Nanda Gunaratne
It isn't clear to me the role that OSHCA can/should play in the
standards world. It might be useful
for the community to agree on things that everyone will support, but
that alone doesn't make it a standard.
Standards my be dictated by national entities or other bodies outside
the control of OSHCA.
Alvin B. Marcelo wrote:
First thread:

I propose we standardize on ICD-10 (as a minimum). It's an
international standard anyway (albeit
difficult to use). This of course does not preclude the others from
using SNOMED if they can
afford to do so.

That being the case, OSHCA can also 'standardize' on the preferred
mapping system between SNOMED
to ICD-10. Any proposals?
UMLS has some such mappings, I believe. If SNOMED isn't free outside
the US and UK, it isn't clear how
one could agree on a mapping.

Molly, how do 'sweeping statements' like these get to be approved
officially by OSHCA?

Second thread:

An interesting insight I got at the last Regional Conference in Open
Standards sponsored by NECTEC
and IOSN in Bangkok (May 2-4) -- an Intel smployee (Danese)
emphasized that open standards may
only be considered open if they can be fully implemented by open
source software.

Any thoughts about that statement? Can we actually call a standard
open if there are limitations
to its implementation by FOSS?
The question is what types of limitations are we talking about. ASTM's
CCR, for example, costs money but can
easily be implemented in open source without any licensing issues.
There is an open source implementation of
HL7 V3 in Java but it requires the HL7 RIM to properly function and this
costs money to use (but not to deploy?).
People have argued that the OMG specs might be encumbered by a patent
and thus don't want to implement them
in open source. But many areas of software are in this category that
they might be encumbered by a patent, so I
argue this is a red herring. We have existence proofs that OMG specs
can be implemented in open source.

It might be possible to implement CPT codes in open source, but not to
be able to deploy it for free. I don't think
open source necessarily implies free. This is the old argument as
to what one means by free. (as in beer vs ideas).

Dave

alvin

--- Nandalal Gunaratne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Alvin B. Marcelo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You are quite right. Interoperability depends in turn on the
agreement on standards. Coding
systems included.

Unfortunately the best nomenclature coding system is SNOMED-CT
which is a proprietary product.
But I am sure the new versions of the ICD system will improve if
they are widely used.

Can our group agree on such standards?

Nanda Gunaratne

However, my question to the group is: can there actually be
interoperability
without agreement on coding systems? And if we accept the fact that
yes we need to share coding
systems, what coding systems should these be and why. I believe
this is an area where
openhealth
can greatly contribute by laying down these 'open' standards upon
which future interoperabilty
can
be made more possible.

alvin

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Re: [openhealth] Zombie hacker pleads guilty to hospital infection

Jason Tan Boon Teck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Well anything making the work of an evil mind more difficult is worth it :-)
Total security being a myth.

Nanda
On 5/12/06, Franklin M. Siler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

On May 11, 2006, at 10:22 PM, Jason Tan Boon Teck wrote:

BeatriX has a nifty feature - copy image of CD to HDD, and then use
that
image from that point onwards. It's remains as a single image file
on the
HDD and would require a uber l33t to hack that.

I'm afraid that statement uses some flawed logic. If a machine is
compromised and an attacker gains enough privileges, it is possible
to write to the drive, regardless of whether it was copied from a CD
or not.

It is not impossible to compromise but he sure needs to go through a lot of
hoops. The image is an iso image of a compressed HDD install. None of the
binaries are in expanded form and are expanded on the fly. One would have to
perform a reverse of this just to modify them.

If the compromise do not require a HDD write to the executable directories,
then it would be easier to take over.

Also, running off a CD doesn't *really* make you that much safer;
it just means that an attacker can't write changes to disk. An
attacker can certainly compromise your running system. You can
reboot, of course, and there's no way for him to plant a backdoor,
but the vulnerability will still be there.

Access time is now limited
to HDD speed.

That's true, but you're no better off than any normal hard drive
install.

This is to address the weakness of slow optical drive access.

--
Franklin M. Siler
UIUC: Undergraduate, Computer Science
http://www.silerfamily.net/~fms/ http://www.silerfamily.net/%7Efms/

Regards,

--
Jason Tan Boon Teck

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Re: [openhealth] Re: request for advice re electronic medical record

Nice thoughts!

If you are having Zope on your server i hope you tried Open Infrastructure for Outcomes, which is the best software for research and audit for clinicians you can get!

Torch is another quite complete and usable system running on Zope.

I have setup OSCAR on Ubuntu Breezy and would gladly help anyone to set it up.

All the above are running on my server as well.

Best regards

Nanda Gunaratne

sickleofzeus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Karsten,

Also, please do be specific in your statements: how usable
for me, as a physician, in private practice may or may not
actually mean can do US billing which is all I care about.

I don't use any of the electronic health records to do billing. I use
an old DOS based practice management system that is lightning fast and
very efficient at what it does and have not been very motivated to
change until these new systems have had some time to mature.

I am referring to the projects in their ability to help a physician
(and practitioners) provide better health care. So the issue of
whether a particular program does billing or not has never really
affected my decision making process.

I lurked on the GnuMed developers mailing list for a long time. After
many months, I finally got tired of waiting for your team to decide
that you could call GnuMed anything more than pre-alpha. I am
relieved to hear that GnuMed is close to an official release.

While I use OpenEMR, I am actually promoting and supporting all free
open source medical software. While on this list I have read a lot of
volatile, fractious comments. I would rather this group be working
together towards a common goal instead trying to determine who is
king. SO my comments are not directed to a specific developer but
to the community of developers who subscribe to this list.

I have started a not-for-profit company, Open Source Medical Software,
to promote all of the open source electronic health records. I have
been serving primarily the OpenEMR community but want to see all of
the different projects succeeding.

I am already operating a version of OpenEMR on this server. So I have
late models of PHP, MySQL, Apache 1.3.*, Python, SQL-Ledger,
PostgreSQL, ZOPE and Plone already functioning on this server. OSCAR
would take some additional configuration due to the JAVA Tomcat
requirements.

It is difficult for the average open source user to set up working
systems especially with the more difficult configurations like OSCAR.
Would any of the developers from MirrorMed, GnuMed, TORCH, and OSCAR
be willing to set up demo programs of their software on
www.openmedsoftware.org ?

Each of these projects has a number of features that are note worthy.
I know that you, Karsten, personally have put in many hours of the
GnuMed back end database and take your schema very seriously. Setting
up these systems would give average users a single location to shop
and compare.

Sam Bowen, MD
Hickory, NC

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Re: [openhealth] request for advice re electronic medical record






Jel Coward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nandalal Gunaratne wrote:
  
 Have you got the latest build with the greater granularity of permissions?
 
 OSCAR 2.1.0 is what I am experimenting with.
 
 -- 
 Jel Coward
 
 

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Re: [openhealth] request for advice re electronic medical record






Jel Coward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nandalal Gunaratne wrote:
  
 Have you got the latest build with the greater granularity of permissions?
 
 OSCAR 2.1.0 is what I am experimenting with.
 
 -- 
 Jel Coward
 
 

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Re: [openhealth] Standards

Alvin B. Marcelo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You are quite right. Interoperability depends in turn on the agreement on standards. Coding systems included.

Unfortunately the best nomenclature coding system is SNOMED-CT which is a proprietary product. But I am sure the new versions of the ICD system will improve if they are widely used.

Can our group agree on such standards?

Nanda Gunaratne

However, my question to the group is: can there actually be interoperability
without agreement on coding systems? And if we accept the fact that yes we need to share coding
systems, what coding systems should these be and why. I believe this is an area where openhealth
can greatly contribute by laying down these 'open' standards upon which future interoperabilty can
be made more possible.

alvin

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Re: [openhealth] Zombie hacker pleads guilty to hospital infection

Bhaskar, KS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Let me take an even stronger position. If you really want to secure
your network of PCs, you should run the OS off a Linux live CD-ROM which
cannot be infected. It is so straightforward to create customized Linux
live CDs, that I see no reason to not use them. It's very hard to
infect a live CD, and even if it does get infected, a simple reboot will
clean the machine.

I have done this, but the problem is that we do have to save the data that is added on, and this data is saved on to some medium which has to be writeable. Therefore the data remains vulnarable each time it is uploaded to use on the software running in memory off a live CD.

It is also my experience that the software freezes much more often whne running off a live CD for long periods, than when running off the HDD.

It has it's benefits, but not a great practical solution, nor safe enough, as one may want to assume.

Best regards

Nanda Gunaratne

-- Bhaskar

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Re: [openhealth] Standards

David Forslund [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The coding system standards in the US have been specified by CHI. We
should share coding systems, but
even more important is to provide mappings between coding systems, since
not everyone will ever use the
same coding system. OSS could lead by example. Proprietary systems
are moving rapidly in this direction.
The ASTM CCR enables one to describe an event in multiple coding
systems. The ASTM CCR isn't free,
but the cost is nominal and isn't per site.

The OpenEHR project is also setting these standards, but not using a coding system. It uses archetypes to describe every clinical item in a standard and explicit manner. It could be able to map to different coding systems as well. OpenEHR is free and FOSS.

The ASTM CCR has some inconsistencies in exported reports. Take the chronological order for example. Encounters are from the oldest to the latest from top to bottom and Results are the other way.

There is also a large amount of text fields in use which means coding becomes useless or difficult.

Dave

alvin

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Re: [openhealth] Zombie hacker pleads guilty to hospital infection

Bhaskar, KS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It has it's benefits, but not a great practical solution, nor safe
enough, as one may want to assume.

[KSB] Like perfection, absolute security does not exist in this
universe. All we can do is make intelligent trade-offs!

Yes! This truth makes the liveCD a good solution, and the reason that i used it! The LiveCD must be closed on writing, not multisession, and on CDR not CDRW.

You maybe aware the Puppy linux live CD/CVD/USBpen/flashcard etc. is capable of writing to its own CD/DVD/ :-)

Yes you can run them off all types of media, not just CDs.

I call them MOLLS (MObile Live Linux Systems!) - have one hanging on your arm, whereever you go ;-)

Regards

Nanda

Regards
-- Bhaskar

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Re: [openhealth] request for advice re electronic medical record

2006-05-09 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

Could you please explain the difference between the Templates (there are quite a few of these, but very basic) and the eforms? If one needs to add patient data regarding the procedures they undergo, what is the best approach?

I believe that all the data is stored in the MYSQL database, and PDFs are generated to print out a report.

The similarity between the UI of the receptionist and the doctor is a bit unnerving :-)

Nanda Gunaratne

Jel Coward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tim.Churches wrote:

Tim (or anyone else familiar with OSCAR),

Can you elaborate on this? What sort of data is being stored solely in
PDFs, presumably as BLOBs in a table, or in the filesystem with pointers
to them in a table? I can conceive of several circumstances in which
storage of PDFs would be quite OK eg scanned copies of paper
correspondence, given that paper is still by far the most common
modality for health communication, and copies of outgoing reports and
correspondence.

As far as I know OSCAR only uses pdfs for scanned in paper (and some
printing).

Even if such reports were generated entirely from data
in the database, there may be a business or legal requirement to keep a
snapshot of the data as it was when used to generate the report - and
just storing a PDF of the generated report might be a convenient way of
doing that.

Yes.

I've heard good reports about how functional OSCAR is in real-life
practice from a person whose opinion I trust, although he did mention
that the user interface wasn't entirely to his taste, but admitted that
was a matter of personal preference. Thus your assertion that OSCAR may
contain an FDF (Fundamental Design Flaw) is the source of some surprise.

To me also.

More details would be useful. I suspect that OSCAR may instead contain
an FDDO (Fundamental Design Difference of Opinion), also known as an
INDILT (I'd Never Design/Do It Like That). However, if it really is an
FDF as you assert, then you need to provide more details and evidence to
convince us and to help the OSCAR people and others to correct or avoid
such design mistakes - if they are in fact mistakes. Tell us more about
the circumstances in which OSCAR is using embedded PDFs as a primary
data store.

I think Tim Cook has answered this with the apology that followed his posting.

As to whether OSCAR is a 'serious contender'. OSCAR has grown to being
used in 10 (known) offices in BC over the last year. It is one of the EMRs
that the local Health Authority has chosen to be part of a potential
Clinical Indicators Project (basically Prevention and CDM reporting
developement and implementation.

OSCAR stores data in one place that is then pulled (as a view and for data
entry) to 'populate' Chronic Disease Management 'forms'. The 's are there
because the 'forms' are just a view on the data. THis allows single data
entry for multiple purposes and facilitates reporting on that data. I am
not a techy - so that is as far as my explanation of this will go.

OSCAR is growing in Ontario and here in BC the users all seem to love it.
Is it mainstream? Yes, it definitely is. Is it a serious contender? Well,
it seems to be doing quite well :)

Regards all
--
Jel Coward
Co-chair of OSCAR BC UserGroup

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Re: [openhealth] Standards for health information systems

2006-05-09 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

Hi Alvin,

Tell me where I can find something of the Phillipine RUV system for procedures? If you are using ICD-10 for disease codes you could have used the ICD-10-PCS (Procedure Coding System).

Interoperability is not something to do with just using the same coding systems though...

Thanks

Nandalal Gunaratne

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all,

I'm collating standards (open or otherwise) that are being used in open
source health applications.

I'd appreciate if the developers on the list would explicitly publish what
standards they base their applications on and perhaps we can establish
interoperability from thereon.

For CHITS, we use ICD-10 (for disease codes), the Philippine medicare's
RUV (relative unit values) system for procedures, and are currently
developing an XML schema for our local claims processing system (most
probably a subset of HL7). Although HL7 is an international standard, this
Philippine subset still has to go through the process of approval by local
authorities.

Thanks in advance.

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Re: [openhealth] request for advice re electronic medical record

2006-05-09 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

Hi David,

Does OSCAR allow patients to keep their own records or access them? Are you hoping to implement something on the lines of PING?

I have installed OSCAR and am trying it out. I installed it on Ubuntu, and I am also documenting things as I go along. As a surgeon I must find a way to record operations. Any advice on how to proceed?

Nanda Gunaratne

David Chan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: P.S. OSCAR's main aim is NOT to sit on any throne but
to help patients. Our programmers are reminded
regularly to that very fine point;-)
David

--- Will Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Fred,

First of all, a question (showing my ignorance) --
OSCAR is written
in Java?

Second, FWIW I think it is important to keep in mind
that the title
the throne of US EHR systems is a rather sweeping
statement. I
hope the competition for this throne is open to any
system, whether
open source or not. I expect the the marketplace
will confer its
own rewards on title contenders, regardless of any
testbench ranking
system.

With best regards,

[wr]

- - - - - - - -

On May 6, 2006, at 11:50 AM, Fred Trotter wrote:

This is a good time to point out that the only
thing that keeps
OSCAR from
being a major player in the US, is its billing
engine. We have
tossed around
an effort to intergrate FreeB with OSCAR for some
time. If that
happened
FreeB would provide the US billing that OSCAR
lacks, and we would
have a
solid Java-based contender for the throne of US
EHR systems.

-FT

Great scheduler - but billing is Canadian (Ontario
and BC modules)

--
Fred Trotter
SynSeer, Consultant
http://www.fredtrotter.com
http://www.synseer.com

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will ross
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ukiah, california 95482 usa
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707.462.5015 [fax]
www.minformatics.com

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Associate Professor
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McMaster University

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Re: Openhealth Archives? (was) Re: RES: [openhealth] OSHCA - Notion of founding members

2006-04-29 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

Will Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
dear sir,

unfortunately, i believe the record will show that i am qualified to
share the disputation sandbox from this side of the pond. we can't
have california not represented; after all, look who we elected
governor.

Yes! And he will be back!

Nandalal

vbg

[wr]

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will ross
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mendocino informatics
216 west perkins street, suite 206
ukiah, california 95482 usa
707.462.6369 [office]
707.462.5015 [fax]
www.minformatics.com

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Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents.
Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006

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Re: [openhealth] Re: oshca inaugural meeting - constitution

Joseph Dal Molin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hi Will,

Please forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing ;-)
They have not done this before!

Perfection is worth striving for, but it is almost never reachable, Therefore it was agreed by most of us that it was OK to get it going and then change it. If this democratic process is not there, and your suggestions for change are not accepted by the others in the future, let us both resign and join another group.

The way of holding the meeting looks wiered for most of us, but it is a method that is accesible for all, does not limit us to a time ( I was in the operating theatre for 11 hours today and one surgery was 6 hours. meaning if Molly fixed a video conference at this time, i would not had the opportunity to take part), and gave us a whole new experience :-)

I was asked by Molly if i wanted to be in the Protem committee, I agreed. I was made Asst. Secretary at first, then made into representative for Asia and Juliana, her daughter, became the asst. secretary, all without a word to me!

But I think that was probably a good thing, both for the committee and me ;-)

We would really like to have you with us and therfore, forgive but do not forget! Come back with your proposals and I am sure they would be welcome.

Nandalal

Will,

I agree that the process we are following is a clunky. My suggestion is
let's do what democratic countries do with imperfect constitutions and
amend it after we have bootstrapped OSHCA into existencethe US did
it so can OHSCA :-). Would you be comfortable boostrapping OSHCA for now
and then working to amend the constitution? Given that OSHCA is a
democracy we can deal with flaws and omissions more effectively with
real voting membership in place.

Joseph

Will Ross wrote:
molly,

with all due respect, what is the point of offering opportunities to
vote for or against a position if a nay vote is disallowed or
prevents the possibility of membership? please explain to me how
the loyal opposition can voice their opinion without harassment,
retribution, exclusion and expulsion.

please review the motions. i approved the creation of the entity,
the naming of the entity, and the members of the protem committee,
but i opposed submission of the proposed constitution because i
consider it to be unnecessarily flawed, and the process to be
unnecessarily rushed. i fail to see to see the connection between
my nay vote on the constitution and your assertion that i am
disallowed to be a founding member. if anything, it is flawed
instructions for a meeting process that is interfering with my good
faith attempt to openly join oshca.

with best regards,

[wr]

- - - - - - - -

On Apr 24, 2006, at 9:00 PM, Molly Cheah wrote:

Hi Will,
What you have done is incorrect. As you disagree with the
constitution, we will not be able to include your name in the list
of founding members to the ROS simply because the ROS will not
register OSHCA. Therefore there will be no OSHCA for you to be a
member of.

I am posting this to the openhealth list for the information of
others.

Molly
Will Ross wrote:

joseph,

not sure if this is correct.

[wr]

- - - - - - - -

will ross
project manager
mendocino informatics
216 west perkins street, suite 206
ukiah, california 95482 usa
707.462.6369 [office]
707.462.5015 [fax]
www.minformatics.com

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Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents.
Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006

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[wr]

- - - - - - - -

will ross
project manager
mendocino informatics
216 west perkins street, suite 206
ukiah, california 95482 usa
707.462.6369 [office]
707.462.5015 [fax]
www.minformatics.com

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Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents.
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Re: [openhealth] Re: oshca inaugural meeting - constitution

Fred Trotter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Fred,

There was enough time given for dissent/discussion. Molly asked everyone repeatedly to comment on the issues. We can't wait for ever, therefore a time limit was set, and the FINAL draft was set down. Therfore there was really nothing to disagree about!

Perhaps, Molly should have removed the disagree part and just left everyone to approve.

Will sent his comments once everything was done and over with. Where was he all that time? His late comments would only disrupt a process set in motion in a very democratic manner.

If you cannot understand this situation, by all means wait in the sidelines and join when you are happy to do so. Nobody will stop you. See the democracy at work ?
:-)

Hope to see you back soon, dissenting and arguing!

Nandalal
OSCHA committee,
It is a little troublesome that Will's membership is being
discarded along with his comments. Essentially the arguments of the
committee is lets get it working and then worry about getting it right.
This is fine but I, at least, will have to wait to see it working right
before I can toss my hat in the ring. This is not so much a criticism,
perhaps the committee has the right idea! But until there is an entity that
merits trust (which means having a forum for dissenting supporters) then I
will have to stay on the sidelines with (apparently) Will.

--
Fred Trotter
SynSeer, Consultant
http://www.fredtrotter.com
http://www.synseer.com

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[openhealth] The Free Standards Group Announces Availability of First Integrated Linux Desktop Standard




LSB 3.1 also incorporates the recently approved ISO standard LSB Core (ISO/IEC 23360) into the standard. The Free Standards Group also has said that Red Hat, Novell, Ubuntu, Asianux and others are all certifying their versions of their operating systems to the LSB, delivering true world-wide coverage of LSB certified distributions.
 
 http://www.linuxelectrons.com/article.php/20060425051329541
  
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Re: [openhealth] Re: oshca inaugural meeting - constitution

Will Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Will,

You are right! The flawed process was an attempt to get the OSHCA formally retgisterd, start a web site and get going. Endless changes and debate are not going to do this.

Therefore, with this somewhat awkward, even ridiculous process, we become a formally registered organization.

The alternative?

Endless debates as to where to register, endless changees to the constitution, exasperating changes of the formalization, dates to have meetings, ways to have the meeting.

Molly gives up.

No formalization. Nobody to take over the formalization and registration.

OSHCA remains what it is. A tiny, very tiny email forum with about 5-7 regular mailers and several lurkers.

I give up.

OSHCA is all yours! Take it, keep it, own it, mail each other and keep each other happy.

Nandalal
nandalal,

from the perspective of a simple discussion at a face to face
meeting, this is what is happening:

we have a motion and a second to approve the 1.0 draft of the
constitution. is there any further discussion?

as a responsible member of the community i first evaluate whether or
not it makes sense to initiate further discussion. deciding that it
makes sense to raise the objection, i ask for the floor and state my
concern so that my concern is noted as part of the process, even if i
have every confidence that the motion will pass over my further
discussion.

then, the chair receives a motion to close the discussion, which is
seconded and passed.

does this disrupt the process or is it a legitimate part of the
process? you decide.

[wr]

- - - - - - - -

On Apr 25, 2006, at 11:20 AM, Nandalal Gunaratne wrote:

Fred Trotter wrote:

Fred,

There was enough time given for dissent/discussion. Molly asked
everyone repeatedly to comment on the issues. We can't wait for
ever, therefore a time limit was set, and the FINAL draft was set
down. Therfore there was really nothing to disagree about!

Perhaps, Molly should have removed the disagree part and just left
everyone to approve.

Will sent his comments once everything was done and over with.
Where was he all that time? His late comments would only disrupt a
process set in motion in a very democratic manner.

If you cannot understand this situation, by all means wait in the
sidelines and join when you are happy to do so. Nobody will stop
you. See the democracy at work ?
:-)

Hope to see you back soon, dissenting and arguing!

Nandalal
OSCHA committee,
It is a little troublesome that Will's membership is being
discarded along with his comments. Essentially the arguments of the
committee is lets get it working and then worry about getting it
right.
This is fine but I, at least, will have to wait to see it working
right
before I can toss my hat in the ring. This is not so much a
criticism,
perhaps the committee has the right idea! But until there is an
entity that
merits trust (which means having a forum for dissenting
supporters) then I
will have to stay on the sidelines with (apparently) Will.

--
Fred Trotter
SynSeer, Consultant
http://www.fredtrotter.com
http://www.synseer.com

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will ross
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ukiah, california 95482 usa
707.462.6369 [office]
707.462.5015 [fax]
www.minformatics.com

- - - - - - - -

Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents.
Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006

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Re: [openhealth] Re: OSHCA Membership question

2006-04-22 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

David Forslund [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

David,

If the OSHCA takes on the task of making the glue

* to get FOSS for Health groups to understand the true value of FOSS which is sharing/contributing and collaborating with ideas and code
*to demonstrate the value of interoperability and common set of standards as the crux, the way forward and the power of FOSS for health

does that make OSHCA worthwhile?

Nandalal
I don't see that your answer has much to do with my question. It isn't
about
where we have been but where we are going and why. I don't doubt the
need for an international forum but what will be the constraints on
participation?
I currently don't see any difference in most open source systems as to
the vendor
lock-in other than that one can look at the code. I don't see that
the proposed fees for OSHCA will do anything other than allow it to
organize (but not fund) meetings. I'm not sure that that will accomplish
much without some purpose or goal to the meetings. I need to see the
value of the organization. People can participate in our project, for
example, for nothing
and this includes contributing code, etc. This typically would be a lot
more participation than might occur in OSHCA itself. Without a strong
set of goals which might include interoperability, the value of OSHCA is
unclear to me.

If OSHCA is non-profit, will it be recognized as such in the US so that
gifts
to it would be tax-deductible, or is the membership fee not a charitable
gift but
something that you purchase and receive value in return?

Thanks,

Dave

Joseph Dal Molin wrote:
OSHCA meetings have always been open to anyone. While there has been
much progress without OSHCA and there are other open source working
groups imbedded in organizations like AMIA etc. there is a need for an
open international forum whose focus is solely open source in health and
provides a place both in the form of meetings and online venues for what
I perceive to be islands of activity to interact and cross pollenate.
This will evolve into concrete initiatives where there is sufficient
itch to scratch and motivation to actI would definitely vote for
promoting open source interoperability as a good starting pointit
would be truly ironic if open source projects reinvented lock-in.

Where OSHCA goes from here will be up to its membership and the goal
creating a formal organization will allow the scope of what OSHCA can
accomplisy, through funding etc. to expand significantly.

Joseph

David Forslund wrote:
Is OSHCA membership intended to simply be an issue of who can vote on
decisions by the organization or does it entail other matters? Most
organizations allow for observers and external contributors, but those
can't vote on organizational decisions. For example, can anyone
participate/attend an OSHCA meeting (subject to possible meeting fees
which are distinct from membership) or only paying members? Will this
list only be for paying OSHCA members? So far the benefits of this list
on discussion of technical issues is valuable, but I don't yet see the
benefits of joining OSHCA. There are other open source organizations
that are at least as valuable being a member of. I don't know what
OSHCA will be doing. I would think that promoting interoperability
amongst open source systems would be a good task to do, but I don't see
that on the list. We have been fairly successful championing and
promoting open source in healthcare without OSHCA. I need to
understand the benefit of joining the organization. The cost isn't the
issue; the time and effort is.

Thanks,

Dave Forslund

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Re: [openhealth] request for advice re electronic medical record

2006-04-18 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne



Rod Roark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 I agree. OpenEMR is also well developed and has good commercial support and 
commercial modules that allow voice recognition etc - probably in windows.
 
 Is there anyone in this list who s involved with OpenEMR development?
 
 Are you Rod?
 
 nandalal
 
 
 Don't forget OpenEMR which has been around for quite a while and has
 seen a great deal of activity and user-contributed improvements over
 the past year.
 
 Indeed one of its greatest strengths is the ability of users to easily
 create or sponsor new features that are important to them.
 
 www.oemr.org
 
 -- Rod
 www.sunsetsystems.com
 
 On Monday 17 April 2006 08:58 am, Nandalal Gunaratne wrote:
  
  Andrew Schamess [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
   Andrew,
   
   There are several open source products but I doubt if any one of them can 
  do all that you ask.
   
  LAMP based ones include OpenMed, FreeMed, MirrorMed and ClearHealth. All 
 look good but still not able to give you what you need.
   
   JAVA based Oscar Mcmaster is promising too but is unable to provide what 
  you want, at the moment.
   
   MUMPS based VistA or GT.M based WorldVistA version is of course the most 
  mature of the products, but is still not as user friendly as we would like 
  it to be. It seems to be the best bet for you.
   
   OIO based on Zope/Python is a great product for the researcher or for audit 
  of a units work. It is very flexible and configurable, has scheduling and 
  workflows, user roles, permissions and some degree of reporting, but does 
  not have the billing software and some of the coding etc integrated yet. The 
  ease of use of Zope, the many excellent Zope Products that are available for 
  education/content management/communication/forums/wikis etc make it great 
  for an intranet too.
   
   GNUMed is also developing to provide practice management and hoping to 
  become quite thorough and is one  of the main products of Debian-Med.
   
   HTH
   
   NandA
   I'm new to this listserve.  I'm an internist, planning to leave a group
   practice and open my own solo pratice in western Massachusetts.  I would
   like to use an electronic medical record.  I was wondering if others here
   could advise or share their experience.
   
   The features most important to me are:
   
  - Assist in meeting Medicare DOQ guidelines.
  - Track preventive screening - know which patients are overdue for
  Pap, etc.
  - Templates, reminders, reports etc. configurable by MD.
  - Improve documentation and coding.
  - Integrated practice management (scheduling and billing software).
  - If possible... patient interface that allows patient self-scheduling
  for appointments, patient access to own health info, secure email and
  messaging.
   
   I've looked into VISTA office a bit (thanks to Joseph Dal Molin for the
   tip).  It looks promising, since it's based on the VAMC system which I know
   works brilliantly; but I see it was put out for beta testing, and the
   sign-up period ended in 11/05.  I've written to the companies listed on the
   website just the same.  Anyone know if it's available at all outside
   beta-testing, or if they're still signing up testers?
   
   Joseph also suggested Oscar McMaster.  Wondering if it handles U.S. cpt and
   diagnosis codes?  Or can they be obtained and installed?
   
   I saw the MirrorMed (OP/EN) link that just came over... also looks good.
   
   I'd really welcome any advice at all.  I've looked at commercial products
   too, but I have a bias toward open source and I'd rather participate in
   testing and building something for public use than buy a license from a
   private company if it's possible.
   
   Thanks very much to all in advance for any responses!
   
   Andrew Schamess
   Lenox, MA
   
   
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Re: [openhealth] Community Health Information Tracking System www.chits.info

2006-04-17 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne



alvinbmarcelo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 This looks like a very good system. Congratulations!
 
 I will try this and introduce it to my colleagues in community health. Maybe 
some of them are already aware of it.
 
 Nandalal
 Hello all. This is Alvin Marcelo (formerly of NLM) re-subscribing.
 
 Happy to be back and to see that everyone is well. 
 
 I return because now we have source code to share :)
 
 Our system is called Community Health Information Tracking System
 (www.chits.info) and it runs on LAMP.
 
 It was designed to be modular so you can add on modules as you see
 fit. This way the system 'grows' with you. Although the primary
 targets are village health centers in developing countries, the same
 modules can be used for practice management anywhere around the world.
 
 Developers and testers are welcome.
 
 System architect is Dr. Herman Tolentino (who is now a public health
 informatics fellow in CDC).
 
 alvin
 
 PS. CHITS shirts are also on sale in Stockholm if you are interested :)
 
 Alvin B. Marcelo, MD
 Director-OIC
 National Telehealth Center, University of the Philippines Manila
 547 Pedro Gil Street
 Ermita, Manila
 Philippines 1000
 
 
 
 
 
  
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Re: [openhealth] MirrorMed Highlights FOSS in Action

2006-04-16 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

It is indeed most encouraging to see such developments. When I clicked the 
screenshots i was taken to the Microsoft web site!!!
 Your link should be
 http://www.mirrormed.org/fb/ 
 Not
 http://http//www.mirrormed.org/fb/
 
 Regards
 
 nandalal

Ignacio Valdes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 The MirrorMed project shows how Free and Open Source Software (FOSS) 
 in medicine works by creating an electronic medical record/electronic 
 health record(EMR/EHR) using code from several projects: OpenEMR, 
 FreeMed, Uversa's ClearHealth and the FreeB medical billing project. 
 Successful health IT software is very difficult to create from 
 scratch. Together, these projects have threaded the needle and become 
 the few that survive the real world in Health IT.
 
 http://www.linuxmednews.com/1144959631/index_html
 
  
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Re: [openhealth] MirrorMed Highlights FOSS in Action

2006-04-16 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne



Tim.Churches [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 You are quite right, TIm. This is a funny thing with Firefox. I am using 1.0.7 
maybe they ahve sorted things in 1.5.1, hopefully!
 
 Nandalal
 Tim.Churches wrote:
  Nandalal Gunaratne wrote:
It is indeed most encouraging to see such developments. When I clicked the
screenshots i was taken to the Microsoft web site!!!
Your link should be
http://www.mirrormed.org/fb/
Not
http://http//www.mirrormed.org/fb/
  
  This seems to be a peculiarity of Firefox. Other browsers (correctly)
  report an error with the above URL, whereas Firefox does indeed take you
  to the Microsoft Web site. Why, I wonder?
 
 Here is the explanation: http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/user/view/cs_msg/43360
 
 That leads to a whole genre of single word, non-deterministic URLS in
 Firefox. Try these (in Firefox, results will be disappointing elsewhere):
 
 http://mirrormed
 
 http://gnumed
 
 http://oshca
 
 http://linuxmednews
 
 http://netepi
 
 Tim C
 
  
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Re: [openhealth] MirrorMed Highlights FOSS in Action

2006-04-16 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne



Tim.Churches [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Tim,
 
 All the following work with Firefox - in that i am taken to the correct URL! 
What were you trying to point out here?
 
 Nandalal
 
 That leads to a whole genre of single word, non-deterministic URLS in
 Firefox. Try these (in Firefox, results will be disappointing elsewhere):
 
 http://mirrormed
 
 http://gnumed
 
 http://oshca
 
 http://linuxmednews
 
 http://netepi
 
 Tim C
 
  
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Re: [openhealth] EHR Review makes progress, needs help!

2006-04-06 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

It seems to me that Fred is going to review just these, and others are supposed 
to chiop in with some reviews or part of reviews of any other EMRs worth 
talking about.
 
 Open VistA remains to be reviewed and OSCAR.
 
 Zope based SPIRIT? and OIO are two others that come to mind. While the ones 
reviewed are in dire need of HTML forms for data collection, OIO makes web 
forms with ease and is a clinicians dream for research and audit.
 
 Nandalal

James Busser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:On Apr 4, 2006, at 12:00 PM, Fred 
Trotter wrote:
 
  EHR review on LinuxMedNews...
  http://www.linuxmednews.com/1144128464/index_html
 
  At this point, I have finished about 80% of the reviews...
 
 Hi Fred
 
 The site lists only 3 EMRs, so I wonder what is meant by 80%. Do you  
 mean you have completed 80% of the 3, or do you mean there are many  
 others which you have not yet posted? Maybe in the Review  
 process (or ahead of it) it would be worth inserting Selection  
 process.
 
 PS While a few misspellings could be casually tuned, Ignacio Valdez  
 might like something fixed earlier (Ignacio is posses both an M.D.  
 and a M.S. on the page Who_are_the_Reviewers)
 


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Re: [openhealth] OSHCA registration update

2006-04-05 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne

Constitution of the Open Source Health Care Alliance
 Hi Molly,
 
 A few questions/suggestions.
 
 9.3 -  Names for the above offices in Article 9.1 shall be proposed and 
seconded  and election will be by a simple majority vote of the members at the 
annual  general meeting on alternate years. All the office-bearers shall serve 
for two  years and be eligible for re-election.
 
 
 How many times can any one of the office bearers be re-elected? Should there 
be a restriction?
 
 
 10.6 -  The Ordinary Committee Members shall carry out such duty as directed 
by  the President or the Committee.
 
 under the guidance and approval of the President and Committee?
 
 
 Constitution of the Open Source Health Care Alliance   
 11.2 -  Subject to the following provisions in this rules, the funds of OSHCA 
may be  expended for the purpose necessary for the carrying out of its objects, 
and to  spend  at the end of the financial year approximately seventy percent 
(70%)  from the income and donation received.Expenditures may include the  
expenses of its office-bearers and paid staff, and the audit of its accounts,  
but they shall on no account be used to pay the fine of any member who may  be 
convicted in a court of law. 
 
 Is it compulsary that we spend 70% or is that the maximum allowed?
 
 
 Constitution of the Open Source Health Care Alliance   
 16.4 -  No University/College student can be allowed to be a member of OSHCA  
without the prior written approval from the Vice Chancellor of the University  
concerned. This clause shall only be applicable in Malaysia and any other  
country that has a similar restriction. 
 
 
 Membership for University/College students may need the prior written approval 
of the Head of the University concerned. This applies in Malaysia and any other 
country where such rules and restrictions apply.
 
 
 
 
 
 NandA
 
 Constitution of the Open Source Health Care Alliance   
  
  

Molly Cheah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Since the list has become unduly 
quiet, I'm taking this opportunity to 
 provide a short update on the OSHCA registration.
 
 The registration document is at version1 draft 3, sent out to the Protem 
 Committee yesterday. I think we are quite close to the final draft, 
 which will be uploaded to the list for comments and discussions, 
 hopefully by tomorrow but for a limited period of time, possibly 7 days. 
 I would also need to submit a list of resolutions for adoption, 
 essentially to say that we all agree to the registration of OSHCA and 
 adopting the constitution.
 
 I had been to see the Registrar of Societies and obtained the necessary 
 forms that was used as sample to develop the registration 
 constitution/document. I had also spoken to GKP which used the 
 incorporation method for their organisation - company limited by 
 guarantee with a non-profit status. As a company is more costly to 
 maintain, preliminary view of some protem committee members feel that we 
 register under the Societies Act.
 
 We will then provide a list of items for discussions (as guidelines) but 
 you're welcomed to comment on any item, except for those which 
 constitute minimal requirements for registration in Malaysia. Issues to 
 think about are:
 types of membership
 membership info
 membership dues
 OSHCA chapters/country branches
 office-bearers - how many, length of term etc.
 
 Rgds,
 Molly
 
  
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Re: next steps. (was Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update)

2006-03-30 Thread Nandalal Gunaratne



Richard Schilling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Richard,
 
 What you say seems fine. But software patents can cause problems to us here. 
Most software come from the US and software is so expensive that there is 
rampant piracy of software in many countires. Recent WTO agreements have made 
this illegal and therefore it is not posssible for people here to get pirated 
copies anymore.
 
 This is a good thing, in my opinion, but there are many people who find that 
they can't get software nor can they afford it. They are frustrated and unhappy.
 
 They look at FOSS with some interest and our LUG has been very actively doing 
a lot of stuff. The government agency setup to do the e-government and 
promotion are also naturally interested. However patents related to software is 
rearing it's ugly head and worrying people here. We feel if software patents 
are brought in here by law, it will cause a lot of concern as peopl here can 
ill afford legal costs that may come with such laws.
 
 You in the US and me because I use FOSS for everything do not care. But for 
students and people here software costs are prohibitive. Piracy was a godsend 
that has now gone. They feel helpless, don't they?
 
 The digital divide is maintained. This is why any laws that may affect FOSS 
worries us as it is the only way forward. Even those in the US and EU do not 
think software patent issues are silly.
 
 NandA
 Nandalal Gunaratne wrote:
 
   Definitely no anti-US sentiments from here.
   
   But we worry about the laws which stifle the development of lesser 
  developed countires in their progress inICT.
 
 Really?  That amazes me. Alright, I'll play U.S. QnA session here.  Tell 
 me your concerns and I'll try to address them as they relate to OSCHA 
 operating internationally with members in the U.S.
 
 First off...
 
 Silly patents that have been applied for are irrelevant to OSCHA. 
 Membership in the WTO, as Malaysia has achieved, help protect OSCHA's 
 intellectual properties.
 
 If OSCHA is registered in the U.S. as a trade association all anyone has 
 to do is sign up.  It's that easy.
 
 If OSCHA is registered as a domestic, U.S. non-profit corporation all we 
 have to do is direct OSCHA resources to carry out its mission in other 
 countries.  OSCHA branches in other countries might have different 
 limitations and permissions on its activities.
 
 
 Richard
 
  
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Re: [openhealth] CCHIT biased towards proprietary software??



Will Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 I too agree. Certification is a matter of standards and quality. ther should 
be no compromise. The FOSS once equally certified maybe able to make stroner 
claims. However because of the collaborative/community type of development, 
there could be a waver of the fee or some consideration given if the software 
or a version of it is to be given free, and the FOSS based company hopes to 
make money by the enterprise edition or by support only. Thus the fee can be
 1. less
 2. full but paid in installments?
 
 NandA
 Fred,
 
 I oppose the creation of a separate open source certification  
 process.   I think it compromises the opportunity for open source  
 solutions to displace commercial solutions, and it distracts open  
 source projects from leveraging the collaborative process to create  
 seriously superior solutions.
 
 With best regards,
 
 [wr]
 
 - - - - - - - -
 
 On Mar 27, 2006, at 10:16 AM, Fred Trotter wrote:
 
  This is an interesting discussion. However we do have some  
  decisions to
  make.
 
  1. Does the different nature free and open source medical software  
  warrant
  different consideration than proprietary models for CCHIT  
  certification
  pricing. (If a large number of people feel this way then we should  
  draft our
  own letter.)
  Yes/No
 
  2. In NOT should the pricing generally be lowered for everyone so  
  that small
  and open source projects will have the opportunity to get  
  certified. (If you
  feel this way then you should just sign the emrupdate.com letter)
  Yes/No
 
  Feel free to continue the substance of the discussion by saying why  
  or why
  not for your answers. In any case if you feel that a letter should be
  written or signed... now is the time to do so the review window is  
  closing.
  --
  Fred Trotter
  SynSeer, Consultant
  http://www.fredtrotter.com
  http://www.synseer.com
  phone: (480)290-8109
  email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 
 
 
  Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 [wr]
 
 - - - - - - - -
 
 will ross
 project manager
 mendocino informatics
 216 west perkins street, suite 206
 ukiah, california  95482  usa
 707.272.7255 [voice]
 707.462.5015 [fax]
 www.minformatics.com
 
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 Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents.
  Sir Tim Berners-Lee
 
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Re: [openhealth] CCHIT biased towards proprietary software??

Business Readiness Rating - Home
 
 Could HIS be included here as well?
 
 NandA

Thomas Beale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Tim.Churches wrote:
  Will Ross wrote:
   Fred,
  
   I oppose the creation of a separate open source certification
   process.   I think it compromises the opportunity for open source
   solutions to displace commercial solutions, and it distracts open
   source projects from leveraging the collaborative process to create
   seriously superior solutions.
 
  This is a US matter, but as I set out, my position would be to argue for
  a reduced-cost certification process of any software which makes all the
  necessary documentation, source code, unit tests, functional test
  scripts etc needed to satisfy the certification criteria publicly
  available for scrutiny by anyone.
 
  But the actual criteria to be met should be the same.
 I agree that this should be the basis. Certification should be a case of 
 paying someone to do the same thing you have already done, just without 
 you being there. It should be a $2k or less operation.
 
 - thomas beale
 


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Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update



Richard Schilling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Wow after all that feedback 
I'm honestly trying to pick where to 
 start on this one.  I'm seeing some confusion here between legal aspects 
 and the socio-political.
   
 Perhaps this is because socio-political is far more important in asia than in 
the US :-)
   
 I agree to what you are saying, but there is another aspect here I am trying 
to bring out. The laws in US are a biit too rigid for asian countries. Their 
purses are samll, and yet, they want to use ICT for their development. This is 
not the time to have too many impediments - legal or other. WHile copyrights 
are OK, patents on software is a problem.
   
 Maybe I am wrong? If so please tell me!!
   
 NandA
 
 Molly, I'm not implying that there's no legal protection in Malaysia.
 I'm saying, based on what I know there's less protection than in the 
 U.S.  Malaysia is a constitutional monarchy.  All peninsular Malaysian 
 states except two have hereditary rulers, which, for a company means 
 that the laws governing corporations can be set along heridetary lines 
 rather than an independent legal standard.  Read: muslim, heridetary 
 lines.  Is OSCHA a religious organization or an independent world-wide 
 technological organization accessible to everyone regardless of 
 religious conviction?  (Tim, you're not making any sense with your star 
 and crescent comment).
 
 And, what I'm suggesting is that you start with a U.S. incorporation. 
 Then incorporate elsewhere.  What is below is point/counter-point.  And, 
 it's not talking about suitability based on religion, the people or 
 any other facet other than legal.
 
 So, let me boil this down to simple terms:
 
 1. Legal protections: U.S. incorporation means that as a U.S. company, 
 OSHCA has the same rights as an individual.  Intellectual property 
 rights and agreements are upheld.  In other countries, especially ones 
 with new regimes, this might not be the case.  U.S. subsidiaries running 
 in non-U.S. countries would work just fine and be stabilized by the U.S. 
 based parent.
 
 2. Repatriation of capital: As OSCHA earns fees, receives donations, 
 pays taxes, etc... it's much more straightforward in the U.S. I believe. 
   The tax burden on a non-profit like OSHCA would be minimal or 
 non-existent.
 
 3. Political stability: In politically less-stable countries (e.g. 
 Malaysia, Taiwan, Mexico, South Africa, Haiti, etc..) when regimes 
 change so does the law - you can find your corporation and all its 
 assets suddenly owned by someone else.
 
 4. Government funding: incorporating in a country because it looks like 
 there's government funding is a bad idea. You need a much harder offer 
 than that.  What are the incentive programs, specifically that the other 
 government offers?  Who, specifically in the government, is offering them?
 
 
 Richard
 
 
 
 
 Molly Cheah wrote:
  I was born in Malaysia and lived through the period where we obtained 
  independance from the British and from whom our legal framework was 
  adopted. Just wondering what are the concerns of Richard and David on 
  the legal protection for OSHCA. Can you elaborate rather than make a 
  comment that imply there isn't legal protection. Incidently we don't 
  have the equivalence of Guantanano Bay in Malaysia.
  Molly
  Joseph Dal Molin wrote:
  
  
 Legal protection in the context of an organization like OSHCA is IMHO 
 not a major concern. What is more important is how the countries laws 
 influence governance.
 
 David Forslund wrote:
  
 
 
 I don't understand why this is good or even relevant.  What should
 matter is the legal protection
 provided by the incorporation in the various countries participating,
 which I think was Richard's point.
 
 Dave Forslund

 
 
 
 
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Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update



Richard Schilling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 The next GKP annual meeting is here in Sri Lanka. Anyone coming? :-)
 
 NandA
 Molly, I think you should incorporate in Malaysia eventually.  As a 
 Malaysian you'll have a very easy time doing it and know what it means.
 
 The members of the protem committee have been discussing OSCHA 
 incorporation since 2002 or perhaps earlier if memory serves.  Why it 
 didn't happen in France or Canada already is a mystery to me.
 
 globalknowledge.org provides a wonderful model.  Is Microsoft the only 
 north-American company a member of globalknowledge.org?
 
 Richard
 
 
 Molly Cheah wrote:
  David,
  There is and not may be because there are legal frameworks (acts of 
  parliament) that governs corporations, civil societies, unions etc. If 
  OSHCA is to be my organisation, I would have it up in 3 days (not one as 
  suggested by Richard). My timeline of 3 months is not due to technical 
  grounds for setting it up but rather to allow members and the protem 
  committee to discuss and accept what should go into the incorporation 
  papers. The procedures are laid out and transparent.
  Even the choice of incorporation in a developing country went through 
  discussions on this list and there were no objections. I picked Malaysia 
  because I'm from here and I had undertaken to do the job. If anyone else 
  would like to volunteer to do the job please by all means.
  
  The other reason why I picked Malaysia is provided by the evidence of 
  the incorporation and success of the global knowledge partnership 
  http://www.globalknowledge.org. There are several other similar 
  organisations too. And look at the list of GKP members, their activities 
  etc. Please enumerate what we want to do in OSHCA that is not done by 
  global knowledge partnership. We had already gone through discussions on 
  OSHCA's vision, mission statements, principles and activities.
  
  Though this is out of context here, Malaysia has a secular constitution 
  and therefore it is not an islamic country, though majority of the 
  population are muslims. Unfortunately the media especially in the US 
  says we  are an islamic state and most people rely on the media for 
  information and believes them. But this (muslim or secular) should not 
  be of concern to anyone.
  
  Molly
  David Forslund wrote:
  
  
 There may be legal protection, etc in Malaysia.  We are more familiar 
 with the situation in the US.
 It is more of a question of comparing what is required and what you can 
 do with a corporation
 in Malaysia than in the US.  The decision shouldn't be made on political 
 grounds but on technical grounds,
 in my opinion.
 
 Dave
 Molly Cheah wrote:
  
 
 
 I was born in Malaysia and lived through the period where we obtained
 independance from the British and from whom our legal framework was
 adopted. Just wondering what are the concerns of Richard and David on
 the legal protection for OSHCA. Can you elaborate rather than make a
 comment that imply there isn't legal protection. Incidently we don't
 have the equivalence of Guantanano Bay in Malaysia.
 Molly
 Joseph Dal Molin wrote:
 

 
 
 Legal protection in the context of an organization like OSHCA is IMHO
 not a major concern. What is more important is how the countries laws
 influence governance.
 
 David Forslund wrote:
 
 
  
 
 
 I don't understand why this is good or even relevant.  What should
 matter is the legal protection
 provided by the incorporation in the various countries participating,
 which I think was Richard's point.
 
 Dave Forslund
  
 

 
 
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Re: next steps. (was Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update)