[openhealth] Re: Open Source Copyrights Legally Enforceable

On Thu, 2008-08-14 at 14:59 -0500, Ignacio Valdes wrote: > Information Week is reporting. "A federal appeals court has struck > down a lower court ruling that found that open source copyrights may > not be legally enforceable if they're licensed under terms that are > "intentionally broad." Ruling

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

Adrian Midgley wrote: > Tim Churches wrote: >> Thomas Beale wrote: >>> Tim, >>> >>> all archetypes published on openEHR are for free use, forever. >>> Otherwise they don't go there. Free archetypes is our credo. >> >> Yeah, but where, in writing, does it say that? Any lawyer will >> tell you that c

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

Tim Churches wrote: > > Thomas Beale wrote: > > Tim, > > > > all archetypes published on openEHR are for free use, forever. > Otherwise > > they don't go there. Free archetypes is our credo. > > Yeah, but where, in writing, does it say that? Any lawyer will tell you > that credos don't count in cou

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

Tim Churches wrote: > > > ... perhaps it deserves to be written up > as a brief formal paper? There other sociological aspects of openEHR > archetype licensing and control which I have not discussed here, too. > It does. The sociological aspects give us more trouble than the technica

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source Software - PPO Networks & Cost Management

no need to go hunting for the dispered un-insureds, many of who are the "uninsurables" in our uniquely american health care caste system (i.e., worship of the almighty dollar, with actuarial high priests). instead, just start with one large self-insured employer. [wr] - - - - - - - - On Jan

[openhealth] Re: Open Source Software - PPO Networks & Cost Management

You have two very valid points. Un-insureds could really use this as a means of straight forward financial relief. Your second point is basically how would one make an entrance into the market? The software product as a whole would need to have a brand name. This brand name would now in theory

[openhealth] Re: Open Source Software - PPO Networks & Cost Management

Interesting idea. I can see how people without health insurance would use this "marketplace" but I don't understand how existing clients who are locked into a plan would use it. --- In openhealth@yahoogroups.com, "beancycler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hello, I am new to this group. I have

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

Tim Churches wrote: > Thomas Beale wrote: >> Tim Churches wrote: >>> Thomas Beale wrote: >>> Tim, all archetypes published on openEHR are for free use, forever. Otherwise they don't go there. Free archetypes is our credo. >>> Yeah, but where, in writing, does it sa

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

Thomas Beale wrote: > Tim Churches wrote: >> Thomas Beale wrote: >> >>> Tim, >>> >>> all archetypes published on openEHR are for free use, forever. Otherwise >>> they don't go there. Free archetypes is our credo. >>> >> Yeah, but where, in writing, does it say that? Any lawyer will tell yo

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

Thomas Beale wrote: > Tim Churches wrote: >> Thomas Beale wrote: >> >> Where? Where can I obtain these systems, load them on my laptop and >> server, and try them out with my data? You keep asserting that they are >> there, I keep asking "Where?",. >> > What you really want is a free download

[openhealth] Re: Open Source?

Jason, I don't think any of the participants are enjoying this conversation. However, it is not mindless pedantic navel gazing. We are just trying to have a clear statement from Thomas and Ocean Informatics on the IP status of their software and archetypes. Unfortunately, the conversation is go

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

Tim Churches wrote: > Thomas Beale wrote: > >> Tim, >> >> all archetypes published on openEHR are for free use, forever. Otherwise >> they don't go there. Free archetypes is our credo. >> > > Yeah, but where, in writing, does it say that? Any lawyer will tell you > that credos don't count

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

Tim Churches wrote: > Thomas Beale wrote: > > Where? Where can I obtain these systems, load them on my laptop and > server, and try them out with my data? You keep asserting that they are > there, I keep asking "Where?",. > What you really want is a free download URL off the internet. We don'

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

Jason Aaron Osgood wrote: > Thomas Beale wrote: > > > I had hoped people here were actually interested in making > progress in e-Health. > > Not me! I love this pedantic navel gazing and head butting. > Invigorating! There is no detail about open source licenses, > intentions, and biases t

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

Thomas Beale wrote: > Tim, > > all archetypes published on openEHR are for free use, forever. Otherwise > they don't go there. Free archetypes is our credo. Yeah, but where, in writing, does it say that? Any lawyer will tell you that credos don't count in court when push comes to shove. Properly

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

Thomas Beale wrote: > Tim Churches wrote: >> Note that I am *not* conflating open source software with open standards >> here. Everyone is very grateful and full of praise for the entirely open >> manner in which openEHR and Ocean Informatics has made the ideas and >> nascent standards for openEHR

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

Thomas Beale wrote: > I had hoped people here were actually interested in making progress in e-Health. Not me! I love this pedantic navel gazing and head butting. Invigorating! There is no detail about open source licenses, intentions, and biases too small, too insignificant, and too obvio

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

Tim Churches wrote: > > My own frustration with Thomas' post to this list stems from the fact > that it the last of quite a few such posts, stretching back many years > (at least 5 years, possibly 7 or more) announcing that openEHR software > implementations would be available very soon now. Yet th

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

Tim Churches wrote: > > Note that I am *not* conflating open source software with open standards > here. Everyone is very grateful and full of praise for the entirely open > manner in which openEHR and Ocean Informatics has made the ideas and > nascent standards for openEHR archetypes and whatnot f

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

Fred Trotter wrote: >> There is probably nothing of great interest to wait for; they are just >> drafting proper licenses >> > > Please do not do that. > http://lwn.net/Articles/124797/ > > we are not drafting any new open source licenses; for open source use, it will be just Mozilla tri-l

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

Tim, all archetypes published on openEHR are for free use, forever. Otherwise they don't go there. Free archetypes is our credo. What Sebastian was saying is that now that there is this freedom for a system builder or user to create their own archetypes, there is no easy way to stop them copy

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

Hi Tim, You are making enough useful points to make it useful to assemble them in a coherent, carefully considered position. Maybe you could work with the Jon Patrick team to assist and clarify just what ALL the issues are. A discussion with Dr David Rowed of Ocean Informatics who was also i

[openhealth] Re: Open Source?

Hi Tim, You are making enough useful points to make it useful to assemble them in a coherent, carefully considered position. Maybe you could work with the Jon Patrick team to assist and clarify just what ALL the issues are. A discussion with Dr David Rowed of Ocean Informatics who was also wa

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

Thomas Beale wrote: > Clearly there will be effort involved for anyone who decides to > re-orient their product in the openEHR direction. But my friendly > challenge is this: if you are so passionate about open source code, why > are you not as passionate about sharable health data? Having an op

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

Fred Trotter wrote: > What we, as the community need from Ocean Informatics is a very clear > commitment about > >- What you are releasing open source >- When you will be releasing it >- What license it will be under >- Where it can be downloaded >- What you are not releasing o

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

On Dec 1, 2006, at 1:48 PM, Thomas Beale wrote: > mspohr wrote: >> >> We do look forward to the results of your discussions with your >> lawyers and we hope that Ocean Informatics will make a clear >> statement >> on their web site of the status of both the standards and the >> software >> so

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

Thomas Beale wrote: > mspohr wrote: >> We do look forward to the results of your discussions with your >> lawyers and we hope that Ocean Informatics will make a clear statement >> on their web site of the status of both the standards and the software >> so that we can have appropriate information t

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

> > There is probably nothing of great interest to wait for; they are just > drafting proper licenses Please do not do that. http://lwn.net/Articles/124797/ > If people won't touch anything until the people who > built it have given it all away for nothing, No one here as suggested that you g

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

mspohr wrote: > > We do look forward to the results of your discussions with your > lawyers and we hope that Ocean Informatics will make a clear statement > on their web site of the status of both the standards and the software > so that we can have appropriate information to use in deciding how to

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

Hi to all, I am not in a position to go into discussion about Open Source any deeper but I want to stress out the point that the work of openEHR should better be seen mostly as developing Specifications which are Open; meaning not only you don't have to pay or belong to a certain group but also

[openhealth] Re: Open Source?

Thomas, I think most of us would agree that open health data standards are very important and I think we all share a great enthusiasm for promoting and using open standards. The issue with this prolonged discussion has been that many people are not clear on the definition of open source software an

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

One of the main motivations for offering access to an online openEHR repository with a published API is to allow developers / app vendors to discover if they are really interested in openEHR. Getting an idea of what it can do functionally I see as orthogonal to the issue of the source code bei

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

> For what it is worth, I would rather always > give the source code away as part of any deal, and we will certainly > work toward that goal. But a higher priority is to make sure the company > survives obviously. So...watch this space. > > - thomas > Thomas, Thank you this is exactly

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

Tim Churches wrote: > > > Thomas, to be fair, you did provide a direct URL into your SVN repository, > and it is not unusual to allow anonymous access to such repositories, so both > my and Fred's questions regarding passwords were not unreasonable. > > Also, it is not exactly clear what the loic

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

Fred Trotter wrote: > > > Ok, I think we are talking past each other. Here is a page from Ocean > Informatics. > http://oceaninformatics.biz/CMS/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=26&Itemid=36 > > It lists the products which very clearly state that they are based on > openEHR. Now assuming I

Re: Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

Thomas Beale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Things are extremely clear. > >> 1. Ocean informatics open source is all on subversion servers on > >> http://svn.openEHR.org, and have been for some years. > > > > This requires a user name and password. This does not at all seem > extremely > > clear.

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

> Fred, > if you were to spend 5 minutes to actually have a look at the site > (which I agree is not wonderful, but it isn't impenetrable either), then > you would find that under the "projects" menu you could access pages > like the following: > http://svn.openehr.org/knowledge_tools_java/TRUNK/pr

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

Fred Trotter wrote: >> Things are extremely clear. >> 1. Ocean informatics open source is all on subversion servers on >> http://svn.openEHR.org, and have been for some years. >> > > > This requires a user name and password. This does not at all seem extremely > clear. > Fred, if you were t

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

Tim Churches wrote: > Thomas Beale wrote: > >> Things are extremely clear. >> 1. Ocean informatics open source is all on subversion servers on >> http://svn.openEHR.org, and have been for some years. >> > > Thomas, > > What is the user name and password needed to access the above Subversio

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

Fred Trotter wrote: > What we, as the community need from Ocean Informatics is a very clear > commitment about > >- What you are releasing open source >- When you will be releasing it >- What license it will be under >- Where it can be downloaded >- What you are not releasing o

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

mspohr wrote: > Yes, thank you. It does clarify things. > I think we all need to understand the difference between an open > standard and open software. > If I understand correctly, your software is based on an open standard > that anyone can use for interoperability. This is good. The software

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

Thomas Beale wrote: > Things are extremely clear. > 1. Ocean informatics open source is all on subversion servers on > http://svn.openEHR.org, and have been for some years. Thomas, What is the user name and password needed to access the above Subversion server? Tim C

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

> > > Things are extremely clear. > 1. Ocean informatics open source is all on subversion servers on > http://svn.openEHR.org, and have been for some years. This requires a user name and password. This does not at all seem extremely clear. 2. all Ocean's products are based directly on the openEH

[openhealth] Re: Open Source?

Yes, thank you. It does clarify things. I think we all need to understand the difference between an open standard and open software. If I understand correctly, your software is based on an open standard that anyone can use for interoperability. This is good. The software itself to access this op

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

Fred Trotter wrote: > > What we, as the community need from Ocean Informatics is a very clear > commitment about > > >- What you are releasing open source >- When you will be releasing it >- What license it will be under >- Where it can be downloaded >- What you are not releasin

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

mspohr wrote: > Thomas, > We don't want to argue about open source. We just want a clear > statement from you. > > Is your software open source? > > If yes, then there should be a place where we can download the source > with a GPL type license. > > If no, then this is a proprietary system and y

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

Tim Churches wrote: > Thomas, the full text of the paragraph from my post which you quote is: > "However, after nearly 10 years of work on openEHR, or over 15 years if > you include work on GEHR (Good Electronic Health Record, which was its > conceptually similar predecessor), there is still no com

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

I have been staying on the sidelines for this one but I think this is an important point that does need clarifiication. You can answer "hybrid". You can say that your product is both an open source and a proprieatary product. What is important it that your company be very clear about what it is c

[openhealth] Re: Open Source?

Thomas, We don't want to argue about open source. We just want a clear statement from you. Is your software open source? If yes, then there should be a place where we can download the source with a GPL type license. If no, then this is a proprietary system and you shouldn't make statements th

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

mspohr wrote: > Thomas, > Just a word of caution on "I don't want to get into arguments about > Open Source"... > It seems that you are asking for help in testing, debugging, and > developing your software but you aren't willing to make this an open > source project (at this time). no, we already

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

Thomas Beale wrote: > Tim Churches wrote: >> their decision to make the intellectual property associated with the >> theoretical underpinnings of openEHR freely available, and to not pursue >> patents on the ideas behind openEHR (some of which are novel, some of >> which are not so novel). >> >> Ho

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

Tim Churches wrote: > their decision to make the intellectual property associated with the > theoretical underpinnings of openEHR freely available, and to not pursue > patents on the ideas behind openEHR (some of which are novel, some of > which are not so novel). > > However, after nearly 10 years

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?

mspohr wrote: > Thomas, > Just a word of caution on "I don't want to get into arguments about > Open Source"... > It seems that you are asking for help in testing, debugging, and > developing your software but you aren't willing to make this an open > source project (at this time). Unfortunately,

[openhealth] Re: Open Source?

Thomas, Just a word of caution on "I don't want to get into arguments about Open Source"... It seems that you are asking for help in testing, debugging, and developing your software but you aren't willing to make this an open source project (at this time). Unfortunately, there is a history (especi

[openhealth] Re: Open Source Good for Innovation?

>From: David Forslund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: [Fwd: Re: [n-gaa] Is Open Source Good for Innovation?] >I thought folks might like to see this article. Any comments? > > The kind of perspective that these authors have

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source HIS taxonomy

eb 16 19:17:49 2006 Subject: Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source HIS taxonomy The funny thing is that if the money had been spent to upgrade the levees in New Orleans, we'd probably be talking about how much of a waste it was (especially given that Katrina was ultimately downgraded to categ

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source HIS taxonomy

d public schools, good public health, good roads, etc. -- Bhaskar -- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld -Original Message- From: openhealth@yahoogroups.com To: openhealth@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu Feb 16 18:28:12 2006 Subject: Re: [openhealth] Re: Open So

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source HIS taxonomy

eless Handheld -Original Message- From: openhealth@yahoogroups.com To: openhealth@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu Feb 16 18:28:12 2006 Subject: Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source HIS taxonomy I guess I have my soapbox issues, too. There are a lot of things done "at taxpayer expense". It

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source HIS taxonomy

I guess I have my soapbox issues, too. There are a lot of things done "at taxpayer expense". It is fashionable to speak disdainfully about what you do not happen to like, but you have everything from roads to clean water thanks to work done "at taxpayer expense". "Bhaskar, KS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source HIS taxonomy

It is true that CHCS I is a variant of an earlier version of VistA (then known as DHCP), but I believe CHCS II is rather different, intended as a successor to CHCS I. The relationship is not that one is a later version of the other, but that one was designed replace the other (though, in practic

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source HIS taxonomy

6 14:41:12 2006 Subject: [openhealth] Re: Open Source HIS taxonomy Thank you very much for your help. Do you happen to know if this is a similar type of implmenetation as with the military's CHCSII? I'm creating conceptual categories as I go as well as invesigating the more detailed level

[openhealth] Re: Open Source HIS taxonomy

Thank you very much for your help. Do you happen to know if this is a similar type of implmenetation as with the military's CHCSII? I'm creating conceptual categories as I go as well as invesigating the more detailed levels of implementations (ex: the variety of HL7 parsers out there.) -Lorie -

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source Clinical Messaging Software

On 14/01/06, Joseph Dal Molin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Yes indeed there are many new ones: > > > > Search results for hl7 > > ... In your search you was unable to find out pyHL7 that is a python HL7 protocol implemetation I am writing and will release as soon as it will be usable by other

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source Clinical Messaging Software

Hi, I am definitely interested with it...Thanks for the information. Would it be possible for me to give it a try? My current development platform is MS VB6 SP5 with ADO via OLEDB...I need to connect my Pathology Information System to a hospital HIS and LIS via file based HL7 messaging. I guess it

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source Clinical Messaging Software

I have a Hl7 parser and messaging toolkit as well a GUI for administration that is written in .NET 2.0. If there is sufficient interest, I contribute it as open source. __ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a mon

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source Clinical Messaging Software

r, MD - Original Message From: Koray Atalag <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: openhealth@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 1:34:24 AM Subject: Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source Clinical Messaging Software Hi Will, I had just opened the sourceforge.net site and entered HL7 keywo

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source Clinical Messaging Software

Yes indeed there are many new ones: Search results for hl7 * OpenEMed OpenEMed is a distributed healthcare and medical information framework based on open standards including those of HL7 and the healthcare taskforce of the OMG. These standards include identity management, observ

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source Clinical Messaging Software

Hi Will, I had just opened the sourceforge.net site and entered HL7 keyword and the results were incredible! I had done a similar search 6 months ago and there were hardly any project at all http://sf.net BTW if you happen to digest all these projects and evaluate pls. let the group know abo

Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source Clinical Messaging Software

Koray, To be more precise, the open source clinical messaging solution I am looking for is either already feature complete or can become feature complete with a small amount of development when compared to proprietary products from Axolotl, Kryptiq, Optio, SureScripts, Quovadx, eMediary, I

[openhealth] Re: Open Source Clinical Messaging Software

Hi Will, Could you please specify what sort of CMS you are looking for...for HL7 or non-standard propriety ones? I am also looking for OS HL7 V2.3 messaging components for use in my project to link to HIS of some group in Turkey. When I did Google search with keywords HL7 V2.3 Message Component I