Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[Jacques Hugo]

Off topic, yes, but definitely relevant.  I for one would love to replace
FreeBSD with OI on my Raspi's.  

-Jacques


Jacques Hugo
Three Two Labs
Information Technology | Solaris Engineering 32L
Phone +44 7939 433701
jacques.h...@threetwo.co.uk

-Original Message-
From: openbabel [mailto:openba...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 20 March 2017 10:34
To: Discussion list for OpenIndiana <openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org>
Subject: Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

I think this is off topic noise..but my opinion is that this is the result
of a decision by Fujitsu to back ARM technologies in the data centre.
Following the announced takeover of this industry leading UK chip company
the Japanise company now wants to launch new ARM technologies into the data
centres. This may explain
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/23/fujitsu_arm_post_k/

The question for oi is will it run on these ARM chips which will likely be
common place after the downward fortunes of intels monoploy.


On 25/01/2017 19:35, Alan Coopersmith wrote:
> On 01/25/17 11:15 AM, Tim Mooney wrote:
>> In regard to: Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near, Udo 
>> Grabowski said...:
>>
>>> You need reliable sources:
>>>
<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/01/23/oracle_layoffs_in_hardware_div/> 
>>>
>>
>> I haven't seen any posts to the list from Alan Coopersmith since this
>> thread started; here's hoping Alan escaped this unscathed.
>
> Then you must have deleted all the e-mails I sent:
>
https://openindiana.org/pipermail/openindiana-discuss/2017-January/020100.ht
ml 
>
>
https://openindiana.org/pipermail/openindiana-discuss/2017-January/020102.ht
ml 
>
>
https://openindiana.org/pipermail/openindiana-discuss/2017-January/020110.ht
ml 
>
>
https://openindiana.org/pipermail/openindiana-discuss/2017-January/020113.ht
ml 
>
>
https://openindiana.org/pipermail/openindiana-discuss/2017-January/020131.ht
ml 
>
>
> As long as we're cluttering the OI list with off-topic noise, some 
> further
> reading material on what we're doing with Solaris:
> https://blogs.oracle.com/solaris/entry/oracle_solaris_moving_to_a
> https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/approachable-innovation-bill-nesheim
>
> https://twitter.com/ORCL_Solaris & https://twitter.com/opensolaris 
> have both
> been sharing various links as well (though obviously with different 
> biases).
> https://twitter.com/alanc on the other hand is completely off-topic.  8-)
>
> -alan-
>
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[openbabel]

I think this is off topic noise..but my opinion is that this is the 
result of a decision by Fujitsu to back ARM technologies in the data 
centre. Following the announced takeover of this industry leading UK 
chip company the Japanise company now wants to launch new ARM 
technologies into the data centres. This may explain 
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/23/fujitsu_arm_post_k/


The question for oi is will it run on these ARM chips which will likely 
be common place after the downward fortunes of intels monoploy.



On 25/01/2017 19:35, Alan Coopersmith wrote:

On 01/25/17 11:15 AM, Tim Mooney wrote:
In regard to: Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near, Udo 
Grabowski said...:



You need reliable sources:
<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/01/23/oracle_layoffs_in_hardware_div/> 



I haven't seen any posts to the list from Alan Coopersmith since this
thread started; here's hoping Alan escaped this unscathed.


Then you must have deleted all the e-mails I sent:
https://openindiana.org/pipermail/openindiana-discuss/2017-January/020100.html 

https://openindiana.org/pipermail/openindiana-discuss/2017-January/020102.html 

https://openindiana.org/pipermail/openindiana-discuss/2017-January/020110.html 

https://openindiana.org/pipermail/openindiana-discuss/2017-January/020113.html 

https://openindiana.org/pipermail/openindiana-discuss/2017-January/020131.html 



As long as we're cluttering the OI list with off-topic noise, some 
further

reading material on what we're doing with Solaris:
https://blogs.oracle.com/solaris/entry/oracle_solaris_moving_to_a
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/approachable-innovation-bill-nesheim

https://twitter.com/ORCL_Solaris & https://twitter.com/opensolaris 
have both
been sharing various links as well (though obviously with different 
biases).

https://twitter.com/alanc on the other hand is completely off-topic.  8-)

-alan-

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[Alan Coopersmith]

On 01/25/17 11:15 AM, Tim Mooney wrote:

In regard to: Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near, Udo Grabowski said...:


You need reliable sources:
<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/01/23/oracle_layoffs_in_hardware_div/>


I haven't seen any posts to the list from Alan Coopersmith since this
thread started; here's hoping Alan escaped this unscathed.


Then you must have deleted all the e-mails I sent:
https://openindiana.org/pipermail/openindiana-discuss/2017-January/020100.html
https://openindiana.org/pipermail/openindiana-discuss/2017-January/020102.html
https://openindiana.org/pipermail/openindiana-discuss/2017-January/020110.html
https://openindiana.org/pipermail/openindiana-discuss/2017-January/020113.html
https://openindiana.org/pipermail/openindiana-discuss/2017-January/020131.html

As long as we're cluttering the OI list with off-topic noise, some further
reading material on what we're doing with Solaris:
https://blogs.oracle.com/solaris/entry/oracle_solaris_moving_to_a
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/approachable-innovation-bill-nesheim

https://twitter.com/ORCL_Solaris & https://twitter.com/opensolaris have both
been sharing various links as well (though obviously with different biases).
https://twitter.com/alanc on the other hand is completely off-topic.  8-)

-alan-

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[Tim Mooney]

In regard to: Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near, Alan Coopersmith...:


I haven't seen any posts to the list from Alan Coopersmith since this
thread started; here's hoping Alan escaped this unscathed.


Then you must have deleted all the e-mails I sent:


Sorry Alan, I meant since the links about layoffs, not your earlier
comments about the roadmap.

I'm glad to hear that things appear well for you!

Tim
--
Tim Mooney tim.moo...@ndsu.edu
Enterprise Computing & Infrastructure  701-231-1076 (Voice)
Room 242-J6, Quentin Burdick Building  701-231-8541 (Fax)
North Dakota State University, Fargo, ND 58105-5164

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[Adam Števko]

Hello guys,

could we please stop debating things unrelated to OpenIndiana on OpenIndiana 
mailing lists?

Thanks for understanding.

Cheers,
Adam

> On Jan 25, 2017, at 8:15 PM, Tim Mooney <tim.moo...@ndsu.edu> wrote:
> 
> In regard to: Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near, Udo Grabowski 
> said...:
> 
>> You need reliable sources:
>> <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/01/23/oracle_layoffs_in_hardware_div/>
> 
> I haven't seen any posts to the list from Alan Coopersmith since this
> thread started; here's hoping Alan escaped this unscathed.  Or, perhaps
> even better, here's hoping there was a "separation package" *much* better
> than the 60 days mentioned in that article.
> 
> Tim
> --
> Tim Mooney tim.moo...@ndsu.edu
> Enterprise Computing & Infrastructure  701-231-1076 (Voice)
> Room 242-J6, Quentin Burdick Building  701-231-8541 (Fax)
> North Dakota State University, Fargo, ND 58105-5164
> 
> ___
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> https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss



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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[Tim Mooney]

In regard to: Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near, Udo Grabowski said...:


You need reliable sources:
<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/01/23/oracle_layoffs_in_hardware_div/>


I haven't seen any posts to the list from Alan Coopersmith since this
thread started; here's hoping Alan escaped this unscathed.  Or, perhaps
even better, here's hoping there was a "separation package" *much* better
than the 60 days mentioned in that article.

Tim
--
Tim Mooney tim.moo...@ndsu.edu
Enterprise Computing & Infrastructure  701-231-1076 (Voice)
Room 242-J6, Quentin Burdick Building  701-231-8541 (Fax)
North Dakota State University, Fargo, ND 58105-5164

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[Udo Grabowski]

Tomasz Kłoczko wrote:

On 24 January 2017 at 02:53, Michael Kruger  wrote:


No, my evidence is purely anecdotal and soley based on the prima facie
value of the company sacking 40% percent of the sparc team.



Where did you found that they are sucking 40% of the sparc team?
(using google I cannot find any traces of such news)


You need reliable sources:



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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[Tomasz Kłoczko]

On 24 January 2017 at 02:53, Michael Kruger  wrote:

> No, my evidence is purely anecdotal and soley based on the prima facie
> value of the company sacking 40% percent of the sparc team.
>

Where did you found that they are sucking 40% of the sparc team?
(using google I cannot find any traces of such news)

Tomasz
-- 
Tomasz Kłoczko | LinkedIn: *http://lnkd.in/FXPWxH *
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[Aurélien Larcher]

On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 7:59 PM, Aurélien Larcher <
aurelien.larc...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> Yes but this means that all people who want to contribute should be
>> welcome...
>>
>
> Everyone is welcome :)
>

And by that I also mean that we *do* need help with maintaining packages in
oi-userland, so please step up! :)


>
>
>>
>> A.S.
>>
>> --
>> Apostolos Syropoulos
>> Xanthi, Greece
>>
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>
>
> --
> ---
> Praise the Caffeine embeddings
>



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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[Aurélien Larcher]

Yes but this means that all people who want to contribute should be
> welcome...
>

Everyone is welcome :)


>
> A.S.
>
> --
> Apostolos Syropoulos
> Xanthi, Greece
>
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[Apostolos Syropoulos via openindiana-discuss]

>Apart form Christian references.. ;) (that actually never came into life
>or were constantly coming again , for one's frame of reference),


What do you mean by Christian references? Also, are there Muslim references?


>I only see renaming it to 11.x and stating in Alan's posted PDF link,
>S11.x support is there for long after 2021, but 2031 and 2034.

It is a matter of interpretation. Some years ago I was getting many messages
in the solaris-x86 mailing list and now I get one every six months... This 

is an indication that people are not using Solaris anymore. Going further
I would say that Oracle is not making money from Solaris, or at least the
money they were expecting. If Oracle is not making money from Solaris, they 

will shut it down or they will denote it, just like they did with OpenOffice. 

Of course, Apache Open Office is a total failure but this is another story. 


>
>Openindiana community is better off trying to fix illumos and
>Openindiana issues and prepare to be more production-ready in all
>aspects, including financing, ideas, organization but most importantly
>new maintainers and contributors of all kind.
>

Yes but this means that all people who want to contribute should be
welcome...

A.S.

--
Apostolos Syropoulos
Xanthi, Greece

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[Volker A. Brandt]

Nikola M writes:
> Openindiana community is better off trying to fix illumos and 
> Openindiana issues and prepare to be more production-ready in all 
> aspects, including financing, ideas, organization but most importantly 
> new maintainers and contributors of all kind.
> 
> We like it open, we like it in a better way, (tm) then Other free 
> software distros :P

Very well said!!

+99  :-)


Regards -- Volker
-- 

Volker A. Brandt   Consulting and Support for Oracle Solaris
Brandt & Brandt Computer GmbH   WWW: http://www.bb-c.de/
Am Wiesenpfad 6, 53340 Meckenheim, GERMANYEmail: v...@bb-c.de
Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Bonn, HRB 10513  Schuhgröße: 46
Geschäftsführer: Rainer J.H. Brandt und Volker A. Brandt

"When logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead"

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[Nikola M]

On 01/18/17 08:52 PM, Apostolos Syropoulos via openindiana-discuss wrote:

http://www.oracle.com/us/products/servers-storage/servers/sparc/oracle-sparc/sparc-roadmap-slide-2076743.pdf
  --
Apostolos Syropoulos
Xanthi, Greece


Apart form Christian references.. ;) (that actually never came into life 
or were constantly coming again , for one's frame of reference),
I only see renaming it to 11.x and stating in Alan's posted PDF link, 
S11.x support is there for long after 2021, but 2031 and 2034.

(http://www.oracle.com/us/support/library/lifetime-support-hardware-301321.pdf)
" Solaris 11 follows a Continuous Delivery model, where new 
functionality is delivered as updates to the existing release; upgrades 
are not required to gain access to new features and capabilities. As a 
result, Support dates are evaluated for update annually, and will be 
provided through at least the dates above. "


last time I checked, SPARC S7 was faster per-core and more cost 
efficient then x86 in it's cost/performance league. 
http://www.oracle.com/us/products/servers-storage/edison-sparc-s7-wp-3395977.pdf
Also Oracle cloud on SPARC sounds like better bang for a buck for faster 
CPU performance for the same amount as for x86.
I think Oracle is actually slowly coming back to (real) life, but it's 
coming back is slow (with sales management pressure in mind and covered 
with software licensing burdens) that it is not noticeable at first.


OI and other illumos distributions are not there to replace Solaris at 
all, they are there to complement other distros and solutions for it's 
own use cases and thanking to Copyleft licensing it wil be there forever 
available.
And one doesn't need Linux distro/kernel to run Linux binaries or Docker 
containers in SmartOS and possibly in the future Openindiana will cover 
that too.


So I don't see it as any kind of "end is near" type of event, because 
"new beginnings" always start with something like that :) (and random 
uneducated "media" bashing)


Openindiana community is better off trying to fix illumos and 
Openindiana issues and prepare to be more production-ready in all 
aspects, including financing, ideas, organization but most importantly 
new maintainers and contributors of all kind.


We like it open, we like it in a better way, (tm) then Other free 
software distros :P



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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[Michael Kruger]

On 01/23/2017 08:31 PM, Tomasz Kłoczko wrote:


Can you show any facts/numbers supporting such thesis?
Do you know anything about abandoning any Oracle internal projects in which
some work on new Solaris features has been or will be abandoned?
Is it not kind of contradiction with your claim that Solaris on Sparc is
dead that on roadmap is release v2 software in silicone? and/or do you know
anything about any existing or upcoming releases of other CPU platforms
technologies bringing functionalities of Sparc v1 software in silicone?

kloczek
PS. please be serious and do not mention changes in versioning as
supporting fact.



No, my evidence is purely anecdotal and soley based on the prima facie 
value of the company sacking 40% percent of the sparc team.


Michael

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[John D Groenveld]

In message 
, =?UTF-8?Q?Tomasz_K=C5=82oczko?= writes:
>On 23 January 2017 at 22:25, Michael Kruger  wrote:
>> actually be helpful to the project. Maybe it could mean more users and more
>> developers.
>
>Can you show any facts/numbers supporting such thesis?

+1.
That Oracle has any Solaris ecosystem left to migrate to OI
is probably a pipe dream at this late stage in Oracle's 
customer firings in favor of low-volumes and high-margins.

John
groenv...@acm.org

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[Tomasz Kłoczko]

On 23 January 2017 at 22:25, Michael Kruger  wrote:

> Solaris on Sparc looks to be dead and (it appears) i386 as well, but
> against all odds, OpenIndiana somehow lives on. For i386 users that might
> actually be helpful to the project. Maybe it could mean more users and more
> developers.
>

Can you show any facts/numbers supporting such thesis?
Do you know anything about abandoning any Oracle internal projects in which
some work on new Solaris features has been or will be abandoned?
Is it not kind of contradiction with your claim that Solaris on Sparc is
dead that on roadmap is release v2 software in silicone? and/or do you know
anything about any existing or upcoming releases of other CPU platforms
technologies bringing functionalities of Sparc v1 software in silicone?

kloczek
PS. please be serious and do not mention changes in versioning as
supporting fact.
-- 
Tomasz Kłoczko | LinkedIn: *http://lnkd.in/FXPWxH *
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[Richard L. Hamilton]

Concluding that to represent the death of either Solaris or SPARC contradicts a 
very recent timeline 
http://www.oracle.com/us/products/servers-storage/servers/sparc/oracle-sparc/sparc-roadmap-slide-2076743.pdf
let alone the current support document, which says

Solaris 11  Initial release Nov 2011 Premier support ends Nov 2031 Extended 
Support ends Nov 2034 Sustaining Support Indefinite

The timeline DEFINITELY showed active development of hardware and software (if 
perhaps less aggressive development of hardware) for at least four more years.  
The way things are changing, I don't blame them for not forecasting further 
than that.

> On Jan 23, 2017, at 14:14, Bob Friesenhahn  
> wrote:
> 
> The end is apparently even nearer than presumed:
> 
> http://www.zdnet.com/article/oracle-lays-off-more-than-1000-employees/
> 
> Bob
> -- 
> Bob Friesenhahn
> bfrie...@simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/
> GraphicsMagick Maintainer,http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/
> 
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[Michael Kruger]

Solaris on Sparc looks to be dead and (it appears) i386 as well, but 
against all odds, OpenIndiana somehow lives on. For i386 users that 
might actually be helpful to the project. Maybe it could mean more users 
and more developers.


As for Oracle though, it would seem their killing off OpenSolaris in 
2010 was a bit shortsighted.


Michael

On 01/23/2017 02:14 PM, Bob Friesenhahn wrote:

The end is apparently even nearer than presumed:

http://www.zdnet.com/article/oracle-lays-off-more-than-1000-employees/

Bob


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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[Bob Friesenhahn]

The end is apparently even nearer than presumed:

http://www.zdnet.com/article/oracle-lays-off-more-than-1000-employees/

Bob
--
Bob Friesenhahn
bfrie...@simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/
GraphicsMagick Maintainer,http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[ken mays via openindiana-discuss]

Hi,
Seems it is akin to other OS providers naming upcoming product releases - 
without specific or proposed dates.Also, if proposed features get 
change/add/deleted or get stalled in development.

Oracle Solaris 11.3 is still one of the best stable production-grade OSes...
~ Ken 

On Wednesday, January 18, 2017 11:53 AM, Apostolos Syropoulos via 
openindiana-discuss  wrote:
 

 

http://www.oracle.com/us/products/servers-storage/servers/sparc/oracle-sparc/sparc-roadmap-slide-2076743.pdf
 --
Apostolos Syropoulos
Xanthi, Greece

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[Andrew Gabriel]

On 20/01/2017 17:29, John D Groenveld wrote:

In message , Fred Liu writ
es:

Nexenta has to co-work with hardware OEMs for nexentastor is just software. As
long as I know, they rolled out they-called software-defined storage applianc
es with Dell, PogoLinux, Supermicro etc. I even installed nexentasor on generi
c x86 hardware(I forgot the detailed configurations..).

With a bit of work, I believe Gea's napp-it will run on top
of OI:


Not sure if these are good-enough solutions compared to
low-volume, high-margin Oracle ZFS Storage appliances
and if not, what features are missing from OI/Nexenta/illumos.


This all depends what experience you have (Solaris, ZFS), and what level 
of support you need, High Availability or not, etc. Some of the 
solutions will hide it all behind a GUI, and at the other extreme, you 
can roll your own using the standard Solaris/Illumos commands. Some 
allow you to add specific software you might need (e.g. your own 
monitoring), some will turn a blind eye although not really allowing it, 
and others will not allow it at all. Again - depends what you need. If 
you need a storage server as opposed to a storage appliance, then you 
will probably need to roll your own.


The Oracle ZFS Storage did get nearer to realistic pricing a few years 
ago (and might still be - I'm out of touch with it now), but when I was 
working for one of the other ZFS openstorage companies, I never saw 
Oracle try to sell their ZFS Storage Appliance into any of the large 
opportunities which came up, even though it would have been ideal in 
many cases. I think the Storage folks there probably never understood 
it, and back when I was still in Solaris Sales, it was mainly us who 
sold it even though it was supposed to be the responsibility of Storage. 
There's been no Solaris Sales team for years, so probably no one has 
been much pushing it for a long time.


--

Andrew


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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[Alex Smith (K4RNT)]

Sorry, didn't realize this fishworks video wasn't commonplace. Here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDacjrSCeq4

" 'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the
first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all
irrevocably.' Those words were uttered by Judge Aaron Satie as wisdom and
warning... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we’re all
damaged." - Jean-Luc Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie, Star Trek: TNG
episode "The Drumhead"
- Alex Smith
- Kent, Washington (metropolitan Seattle area)

On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 6:14 PM, Alex Smith (K4RNT) 
wrote:

> http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/systems/storage/sds/nexentastor/
>
> I've seen that Lenovo is offering a NexentaStor-based appliance, is that
> anything similar to what Oracle is offering, fishworks-style?
>
> Still the only thing I've seen from Fishworks is a cool YouTube video
> showing how much vibration can introduce latency into your JBODs.
>
> " 'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured,
> the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all
> irrevocably.' Those words were uttered by Judge Aaron Satie as wisdom and
> warning... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we’re all
> damaged." - Jean-Luc Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie, Star Trek: TNG
> episode "The Drumhead"
> - Alex Smith
> - Kent, Washington (metropolitan Seattle area)
>
> On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 4:44 PM, Alan Coopersmith <
> alan.coopersm...@oracle.com> wrote:
>
>> On 01/19/17 12:38 AM, Fred Liu wrote:
>>
>>> From that roadmap, my understanding is there is no on-premise and
>>> standalone Solaris and SPARC releases after 2017 and everything goes into
>>> cloud.
>>>
>>
>> Then you're misunderstanding the roadmap, which shows both on-premise &
>> cloud
>> releases going forward until at least 2021.
>>
>> So data-machine and fishwork-storage are some kinds of variations from
>>> Solaris and SPARC, if users want to touch by hand.
>>>
>>
>> ZFS Storage Appliances ("fishworks") use x86 CPUs and their own OS
>> versions,
>> with their own release schedules.   You can't make any assumptions about
>> them based on the roadmap for CPU's they don't use or OS versions they
>> don't
>> use.
>>
>> -alan-
>>
>>
>> ___
>> openindiana-discuss mailing list
>> openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org
>> https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
>>
>
>
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[John D Groenveld]

In message , Fred Liu writ
es:
>Nexenta has to co-work with hardware OEMs for nexentastor is just software. As
> long as I know, they rolled out they-called software-defined storage applianc
>es with Dell, PogoLinux, Supermicro etc. I even installed nexentasor on generi
>c x86 hardware(I forgot the detailed configurations..).

With a bit of work, I believe Gea's napp-it will run on top
of OI:


Not sure if these are good-enough solutions compared to 
low-volume, high-margin Oracle ZFS Storage appliances
and if not, what features are missing from OI/Nexenta/illumos.

John
groenv...@acm.org

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[Fred Liu]

> -Original Message-
> From: Jonathan Adams [mailto:t12nsloo...@gmail.com]
> Sent: 星期五, 一月 20, 2017 18:23
> To: Discussion list for OpenIndiana
> Subject: Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near
> 
> On 20 January 2017 at 02:14, Alex Smith (K4RNT) <shadowhun...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/systems/storage/sds/nexentastor/
> >
> > ...
> 
> >
> > " 'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech
> > censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied,
> > chains us all irrevocably.' Those words were uttered by Judge Aaron
> > Satie as wisdom and warning... The first time any man's freedom is
> > trodden on, we’re all damaged." - Jean-Luc Picard, quoting Judge Aaron
> > Satie, Star Trek: TNG episode "The Drumhead"
> > - Alex Smith
> > - Kent, Washington (metropolitan Seattle area)
> >
> >
> You only gave one link, so it must be the first ... and with the guarded 
> comment
> you've made I'm not going to click on it ... 
> ___

Nexenta has to co-work with hardware OEMs for nexentastor is just software. As 
long as I know, they rolled out they-called software-defined storage appliances 
with Dell, PogoLinux, Supermicro etc. I even installed nexentasor on generic 
x86 hardware(I forgot the detailed configurations..).


Fred
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[Fred Liu]

> -Original Message-
> From: Alan Coopersmith [mailto:alan.coopersm...@oracle.com]
> Sent: 星期五, 一月 20, 2017 8:44
> To: Discussion list for OpenIndiana; Apostolos Syropoulos
> Subject: Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near
> 
> On 01/19/17 12:38 AM, Fred Liu wrote:
> > From that roadmap, my understanding is there is no on-premise and
> standalone Solaris and SPARC releases after 2017 and everything goes into
> cloud.
> 
> Then you're misunderstanding the roadmap, which shows both on-premise &
> cloud
> releases going forward until at least 2021.
> 
> > So data-machine and fishwork-storage are some kinds of variations from
> Solaris and SPARC, if users want to touch by hand.
> 
> ZFS Storage Appliances ("fishworks") use x86 CPUs and their own OS versions,
> with their own release schedules.   You can't make any assumptions about
> them based on the roadmap for CPU's they don't use or OS versions they don't
> use.
> 

OK. See. I might be impressed by the recent fud about RIF of Solaris/SPARC 
team. Anyway SPARC on cloud is good try but definitely has impact on 
on-premises implementation from my point of view. Nobody wants to see the 
demise of SPARC. Let's see how it goes.


Thanks.

Fred
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[Jonathan Adams]

On 20 January 2017 at 02:14, Alex Smith (K4RNT) 
wrote:

> http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/systems/storage/sds/nexentastor/
>
> ...

>
> " 'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the
> first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all
> irrevocably.' Those words were uttered by Judge Aaron Satie as wisdom and
> warning... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we’re all
> damaged." - Jean-Luc Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie, Star Trek: TNG
> episode "The Drumhead"
> - Alex Smith
> - Kent, Washington (metropolitan Seattle area)
>
>
You only gave one link, so it must be the first ... and with the guarded
comment you've made I'm not going to click on it ... 
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[Alex Smith (K4RNT)]

http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/systems/storage/sds/nexentastor/

I've seen that Lenovo is offering a NexentaStor-based appliance, is that
anything similar to what Oracle is offering, fishworks-style?

Still the only thing I've seen from Fishworks is a cool YouTube video
showing how much vibration can introduce latency into your JBODs.

" 'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the
first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all
irrevocably.' Those words were uttered by Judge Aaron Satie as wisdom and
warning... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we’re all
damaged." - Jean-Luc Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie, Star Trek: TNG
episode "The Drumhead"
- Alex Smith
- Kent, Washington (metropolitan Seattle area)

On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 4:44 PM, Alan Coopersmith <
alan.coopersm...@oracle.com> wrote:

> On 01/19/17 12:38 AM, Fred Liu wrote:
>
>> From that roadmap, my understanding is there is no on-premise and
>> standalone Solaris and SPARC releases after 2017 and everything goes into
>> cloud.
>>
>
> Then you're misunderstanding the roadmap, which shows both on-premise &
> cloud
> releases going forward until at least 2021.
>
> So data-machine and fishwork-storage are some kinds of variations from
>> Solaris and SPARC, if users want to touch by hand.
>>
>
> ZFS Storage Appliances ("fishworks") use x86 CPUs and their own OS
> versions,
> with their own release schedules.   You can't make any assumptions about
> them based on the roadmap for CPU's they don't use or OS versions they
> don't
> use.
>
> -alan-
>
>
> ___
> openindiana-discuss mailing list
> openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org
> https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
>
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[Alan Coopersmith]

On 01/19/17 12:38 AM, Fred Liu wrote:

From that roadmap, my understanding is there is no on-premise and standalone 
Solaris and SPARC releases after 2017 and everything goes into cloud.


Then you're misunderstanding the roadmap, which shows both on-premise & cloud
releases going forward until at least 2021.


So data-machine and fishwork-storage are some kinds of variations from Solaris 
and SPARC, if users want to touch by hand.


ZFS Storage Appliances ("fishworks") use x86 CPUs and their own OS versions,
with their own release schedules.   You can't make any assumptions about
them based on the roadmap for CPU's they don't use or OS versions they don't
use.

-alan-

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[Dave Miner]

On 01/19/17 09:04 AM, Dmitry Kozhinov wrote:

The most interesting thing in

http://www.oracle.com/us/products/servers-storage/servers/sparc/oracle-sparc/sparc-roadmap-slide-2076743.pdf


for me is "Software in Silicon". I may be wrong, but I'm under
impression that Oracle integrates parts of Solaris into hardware.



Not really.  I'd suggest

https://community.oracle.com/docs/DOC-932216

as a starting point for what that term means.

Dave

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[Dmitry Kozhinov]

The most interesting thing in

http://www.oracle.com/us/products/servers-storage/servers/sparc/oracle-sparc/sparc-roadmap-slide-2076743.pdf

for me is "Software in Silicon". I may be wrong, but I'm under 
impression that Oracle integrates parts of Solaris into hardware.


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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[Fred Liu]

> -Original Message-
> From: Alan Coopersmith [mailto:alan.coopersm...@oracle.com]
> Sent: 星期四, 一月 19, 2017 13:25
> To: Discussion list for OpenIndiana; Apostolos Syropoulos
> Subject: Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near
> 
> On 01/18/17 08:58 PM, Fred Liu wrote:
> > Will they still sell data machine, fishwork storage?
> 
> Yes - those systems have their own roadmap, separate from the SPARC &
> Solaris roadmap.  (But we're really getting off-topic here for the OpenIndiana
> mailing list.)
> 

From that roadmap, my understanding is there is no on-premise and standalone 
Solaris and SPARC releases after 2017 and everything goes into cloud. If there 
are such needs, users have to buy cloud services from Oracle. Is it correct? So 
data-machine and fishwork-storage are some kinds of variations from Solaris and 
SPARC, if users want to touch by hand.


Thanks.

Fred
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[Alan Coopersmith]

On 01/18/17 08:58 PM, Fred Liu wrote:

Will they still sell data machine, fishwork storage?


Yes - those systems have their own roadmap, separate from the
SPARC & Solaris roadmap.  (But we're really getting off-topic
here for the OpenIndiana mailing list.)

-alan-

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[Fred Liu]

Will they still sell data machine, fishwork storage?

> -Original Message-
> From: Apostolos Syropoulos via openindiana-discuss
> [mailto:openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org]
> Sent: 星期四, 一月 19, 2017 3:53
> To: Discussion List for OpenIndiana
> Subject: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.oracle.com/us/products/servers-storage/servers/sparc/oracle-spa
> rc/sparc-roadmap-slide-2076743.pdf
>  --
> Apostolos Syropoulos
> Xanthi, Greece
> 
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[Alan Coopersmith]

On 01/18/17 12:33 PM, Apostolos Syropoulos wrote:

Really?  2034 still seems so far away now...

http://www.oracle.com/us/support/library/lifetime-support-hardware-301321.pdf
(pg. 37)



Well I do not see anything about Solaris 12 on page 37.


The support life document doesn't say anything about releases that have
not yet been shipped as supported products.  The only thing you can
be completely sure of from not seeing Solaris 12 there is that Oracle
has not yet released any finished product named Solaris 12 and started
offering support contracts for it.

The support life document does say that Solaris 11 is now supported
until at least 2034 as changing the release model to ship new features
in Solaris 11 updates instead of as a new Solaris release such as
Solaris 12, so development work is continuing, no matter what name
or version number ends up on the finished product.

-alan-

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[Cedric Blancher]

posix_spawn() syscall, preferably one which can handle primary gid
changes and a envp in one go? /proc-independent fexecve() with syscall
compatibility to Solaris 11.3/4?

Ced

On 18 January 2017 at 22:18, John D Groenveld  wrote:
> In message <806720542.5577156.1484771607...@mail.yahoo.com>, Apostolos 
> Syropoul
> os via openindiana-discuss writes:
>>So one can conclude there will be no Solaris 12 release.
>>Personally, I would like to see this but I am not sure it
>>
>>will happen.
>
> Were there any planned S12 features, presumably now going to S11.Next
> or S11.Next->Next, S11.Next->Next->Next, that are on your OI wishlist?
>
> John
> groenv...@acm.org
>
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-- 
Cedric Blancher 
[https://plus.google.com/u/0/+CedricBlancher/]
Institute Pasteur

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[John D Groenveld]

In message <806720542.5577156.1484771607...@mail.yahoo.com>, Apostolos Syropoul
os via openindiana-discuss writes:
>So one can conclude there will be no Solaris 12 release.
>Personally, I would like to see this but I am not sure it 
>
>will happen.

Were there any planned S12 features, presumably now going to S11.Next
or S11.Next->Next, S11.Next->Next->Next, that are on your OI wishlist?

John
groenv...@acm.org

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[Peter Tribble]

On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 8:13 PM, Apostolos Syropoulos via
openindiana-discuss  wrote:

> > Why "The End is near"? Sounds the SPARC platform will be continued
> > beyond 2020, right?
>
> Obviously I do not care about SPARC machines... But I see no Solaris 12...
> It seems that Solaris 11.4 will be the last release of Solaris.
>

Version numbers have specific meanings here. Having a 12 implies
that it's incompatible with 11 at some level (that's precisely what the
version number bump would mean). I haven't seen anything coming
down the track that requires such a bump, it's far better for customers
and support (and vendor qualification) to stick with update releases of
11. I guess they've just rebranded 12 as 11.next and about the only
difference will be that all the legacy junk scheduled for removal in
12 will stay around a bit longer.

-- 
-Peter Tribble
http://www.petertribble.co.uk/ - http://ptribble.blogspot.com/
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[Apostolos Syropoulos via openindiana-discuss]

> Really?  2034 still seems so far away now...
>
> http://www.oracle.com/us/support/library/lifetime-support-hardware-301321.pdf
> (pg. 37)
> 


Well I do not see anything about Solaris 12 on page 37.

So one can conclude there will be no Solaris 12 release.
Personally, I would like to see this but I am not sure it 

will happen.

A.S.

--
Apostolos Syropoulos
Xanthi, Greece

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[Jerry Kemp]

It may or may not be.  But, it list Solaris-next from 2017 out.

I remember going to Oracle briefings, and they did the same stupid thing in 
2011.  They were calling the next release Solaris next, like there might be some 
better name other than Solaris 11.


You may or may not be right, I have no insight, but the PDF you linked to 
certainly does not suggest any end in sight to me.


On another note, watching the Solaris support forums, since this rumor started 
in early December, I have observed S12 go from build 113 to build 116.



Jerry


On 01/18/17 02:13 PM, Apostolos Syropoulos via openindiana-discuss wrote:

Why "The End is near"? Sounds the SPARC platform will be continued
beyond 2020, right?


Obviously I do not care about SPARC machines... But I see no Solaris 12...
It seems that Solaris 11.4 will be the last release of Solaris.

A.S.

--
Apostolos Syropoulos
Xanthi, Greece

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[Alan Coopersmith]

On 01/18/17 12:13 PM, Apostolos Syropoulos via openindiana-discuss wrote:

Why "The End is near"? Sounds the SPARC platform will be continued
beyond 2020, right?


Obviously I do not care about SPARC machines... But I see no Solaris 12...
It seems that Solaris 11.4 will be the last release of Solaris.


That's not what the roadmap slide shows - it shows ongoing releases
until at least 2021.

-alan-

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[Alan Coopersmith]

On 01/18/17 11:52 AM, Apostolos Syropoulos via openindiana-discuss wrote:

http://www.oracle.com/us/products/servers-storage/servers/sparc/oracle-sparc/sparc-roadmap-slide-2076743.pdf


Really?  2034 still seems so far away now...

http://www.oracle.com/us/support/library/lifetime-support-hardware-301321.pdf 
(pg. 37)


-alan-

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] The end is near

[Apostolos Syropoulos via openindiana-discuss]

> Why "The End is near"? Sounds the SPARC platform will be continued
> beyond 2020, right?
 
Obviously I do not care about SPARC machines... But I see no Solaris 12...
It seems that Solaris 11.4 will be the last release of Solaris.

A.S.

--
Apostolos Syropoulos
Xanthi, Greece

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