Re: The trouble with Skins

2015-03-21 Thread John Hendrikx
On 14/03/2015 08:31, Tom Eugelink wrote: Hi Tomas, I have looked into it, but not yet attempted, but I did do a lot of custom controls. And I agree that it is dubious that a control is a node, and has the properties that come with it. I try to maintain a strict separation in my controls in

Re: The trouble with Skins

2015-03-21 Thread Tom Eugelink
On 21-3-2015 17:01, John Hendrikx wrote: On 14/03/2015 08:31, Tom Eugelink wrote: Hi Tomas, I have looked into it, but not yet attempted, but I did do a lot of custom controls. And I agree that it is dubious that a control is a node, and has the properties that come with it. I try to

Re: The trouble with Skins

2015-03-21 Thread Tomas Mikula
So Skins prevent us from getting visual details of the Control (such as scroll position, position of item on screen, ...), because it is Skin-specific, but at the same time they fail to customize the look feel, because visual presentation leaks into the Control anyway. On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at

Re: The trouble with Skins

2015-03-21 Thread Tom Eugelink
I don't understanding how you see that. On 21-3-2015 18:47, Tomas Mikula wrote: So Skins prevent us from getting visual details of the Control (such as scroll position, position of item on screen, ...), because it is Skin-specific, but at the same time they fail to customize the look feel,

Re: The trouble with Skins

2015-03-21 Thread Tomas Mikula
On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 2:10 PM, Tom Eugelink t...@tbee.org wrote: I don't understanding how you see that. On 21-3-2015 18:47, Tomas Mikula wrote: So Skins prevent us from getting visual details of the Control (such as scroll position, position of item on screen, ...), because it is

Re: The trouble with Skins

2015-03-21 Thread Tom Eugelink
A page based view can perfectly be a list view; I would have no problem having a paging skin or a scrollbar skin for ListView. On 21-3-2015 19:46, Scott Palmer wrote: But that's not right. A *List* is 'a container for an unbounded list of items. A ListView is a specific type of control

Re: The trouble with Skins

2015-03-21 Thread Scott Palmer
But that's not right. A *List* is 'a container for an unbounded list of items. A ListView is a specific type of control that gives you a view to that list *in a specific way*. It has properties in addition to the list itself. It *should* have a scroll position because that is a property of

Re: The trouble with Skins

2015-03-21 Thread Scott Palmer
My point is that there are many ways to display the same data set, but they shouldn't all be crammed into a single control type. Particularly one that changes radically based on the skin just because the data model can be represented by the same data structure. For a ListView it could still

Re: The trouble with Skins

2015-03-21 Thread John Hendrikx
For me, I'd like to simply change the Look and Feel and have the same data presented differently (perhaps related to space restrictions, orientation, user preferences). Currently, this can be achieved by changing the Control, or maybe only change the Skin, depending on how radical the