Re: Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-09 Thread Felix Bembrick
On 9 December 2013 16:10, Scott Palmer swpal...@gmail.com wrote: On Dec 8, 2013, at 9:18 PM, Felix Bembrick felix.bembr...@gmail.com wrote: snip Firstly, it will *never* be possible to completely emulate the native look and feel. Sure it is. Though it may never be practical, for

To Be Or Not To Be (Native), was:Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-09 Thread Felix Bembrick
Spoiler: This is something I have become intensely passionate about so this is likely to be a long post... OK, so this (hijacked) thread started out as a discussion of options in JavaFX for implementing Look and Feel. I think everyone agrees that even with CSS and skins, JavaFX lacks the

hg: openjfx/8/graphics/rt: Ensemble8: Fix for RT-34712 Ensemble8: Bouncing Balls View source link doesn't work

2013-12-09 Thread hang . vo
Changeset: d0bca0f6ab5a Author:Alexander Kouznetsov Date: 2013-12-09 01:29 -0800 URL: http://hg.openjdk.java.net/openjfx/8/graphics/rt/rev/d0bca0f6ab5a Ensemble8: Fix for RT-34712 Ensemble8: Bouncing Balls View source link doesn't work !

Re: To Be Or Not To Be (Native), was:Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-09 Thread Felix Bembrick
BTW, I was wanting to refer to a comment on this topic made my Pedro DV on Twitter today. Pedro has been doing stunningly good work on a Metro Look and Feel for JavaFX and, when questioned by me, stated that while he may attempt such a Look and Feel for Android, he wouldn't try to do one for iOS

Re: To Be Or Not To Be (Native), was:Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-09 Thread Hendrik Ebbers
Hi, when talking about mobile LFs like iOS and Android a lot more stuff need to be done. All the mobile UIs have different layout contains and a lot of default animations. When creating a Look and Feel for mobile systems a set of additinal panes / layout containers need to be created. Hendrik

Re: Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-09 Thread Werner Lehmann
By the way, platform order of dialog buttons is implemented by the ButtonBar control in ControlsFX. It is of course Java8 only but can easily be brought back to FX2. Werner On 09.12.2013 10:45, Hendrik Ebbers wrote: Next to the skinning of controls additional features are needed. One example

Re: Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-09 Thread Tom Eugelink
All I know, as a 3rd party control developer, is that I want to be able to setup the CSS of my controls in such a way that as much of a new skin is automatically adopted; borders, colors, focus rendering, etc. Tom

Re: To Be Or Not To Be (Native), was:Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-09 Thread Felix Bembrick
That's correct Hendrik and this only adds weight to my argument. Clearly the mobile platforms (Android and especially iOS) are even harder-to-hit targets than desktop platforms. And if you are not able to develop a viable native Look and Feel for every platform then the paradigm of deploying

Re: Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-09 Thread Stephen Winnall
On 9 Dec 2013, at 03:18, Felix Bembrick felix.bembr...@gmail.com wrote: @Stephen, you are absolutely right about this. But such an approach (and pretty much *any* approach) to emulated native look and feels is fraught with difficulties and complexities. Firstly, it will *never* be

Review Request: RT-34770 [TextArea MacOS] selected text is removed on focus leaving then returning

2013-12-09 Thread Petr Pchelko
Hello, OpenJFX. Please review the fix for the issue: https://javafx-jira.kenai.com/browse/RT-34770 The details are in the bug comments. With best regards. Petr.

Re: To Be Or Not To Be (Native), was:Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-09 Thread Scott Palmer
I agree that perfect sync with native look and feels is not what is required and not worth the effort. I do think though that major concepts in the platform's look and feel should (must!) be followed or the user experience is ruined. The example of the order of the ok and cancel buttons has

Re: To Be Or Not To Be (Native), was:Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-09 Thread Stephen F Northover
Here are my thoughts on the matter. Give people the choice of whether to use native or non-native components. In some applications, everything will be non-native. In others, only the main content area will be non-native and the rest will be native. In some mobile applications, perhaps the

Re: To Be Or Not To Be (Native), was:Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-09 Thread Felix Bembrick
Stephen, I thoroughly agree that JavaFX is by far the best choice for non-native apps/widgets which is precisely my point. They are the kind of apps perfect for using JavaFX. But you refer to giving people the choice to go native where appropriate. How can I exercise that choice? Where is the

Re: Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-09 Thread Felix Bembrick
Agreed that Quaqua did a great job and lets not lose sight of the fact that I am totally praising the efforts of everyone who has worked in this frustrating and tedious area of UI development/support. I just think the obvious talents of those people could be utilised for a purpose less likely

Re: To Be Or Not To Be (Native), was:Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-09 Thread Rick Walker
There are a few critical elements that must conform to platform-specific look and feel: - app installer - management of app icons - system dialogs: file open, save and save, print - os x system menu bar Apart from these elements, native look and feel should be optional. On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at

Re: To Be Or Not To Be (Native), was:Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-09 Thread Felix Bembrick
I would go further by saying that those things you have mentioned should be truly native, not just native look and feel. Consider the Swing file chooser using Windows look and feel for example. That just never worked or looked right. On 10 Dec 2013, at 4:47, Rick Walker

Re: To Be Or Not To Be (Native), was:Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-09 Thread Stephen F Northover
Today, you can only exercise the choice by writing native code and you face heavyweight / lightweight issues depending on the platform and API. Steve On 2013-12-09 12:31 PM, Felix Bembrick wrote: Stephen, I thoroughly agree that JavaFX is by far the best choice for non-native apps/widgets

Re: To Be Or Not To Be (Native), was:Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-09 Thread Felix Bembrick
What can we expect from the JavaFX team in this regard in the future? I know we have talked about mixing lightweight and heavyweight controls in the same context but is it going to happen? Is this planned for JFX9 perhaps? Is it *really* even feasible? On 10 Dec 2013, at 4:55, Stephen F

Re: To Be Or Not To Be (Native), was:Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-09 Thread Scott Palmer
Doesn’t this also imply that you are using AWT/Swing? JavaFX has no way to be hosted in anything other than a JFXPanel or a JavaFX Stage. Only the JFXPanel can be hosted in a windows that allows heavy weight (native) controls, or even allows JNI code to get the window handle so you can

Re: Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-09 Thread Stephen Winnall
Just to take a completely different tack: I have a sneaking suspicion that the whole approach to UI design is wrong. Aside from the platform abstraction thing, I wonder whether we shouldn’t be approaching UIs from a design pattern perspective. The application programmer is the wrong person to

hg: openjfx/8/graphics/rt: Ensemble8: Fix for RT-34710 Ensemble8: Gesture Events sample name and description is confusing

2013-12-09 Thread hang . vo
Changeset: d337fbc19887 Author:Alexander Kouznetsov Date: 2013-12-09 12:37 -0800 URL: http://hg.openjdk.java.net/openjfx/8/graphics/rt/rev/d337fbc19887 Ensemble8: Fix for RT-34710 Ensemble8: Gesture Events sample name and description is confusing !

Re: Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-09 Thread Scott Palmer
I see the point of he higher-level abstraction, but I think we need more control over the user experience than that for most cases. If not simply for aesthetics, there are times when I know I want a combobox vs. a spinner vs. a list with a single selection model. What we need are more of what

Re: Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-09 Thread Stephen Winnall
I am with you on the design pattern approach you refer to which is basically a higher level of abstraction than say one which actually specifies which widget types to use. But who is this someone who loves the target platform and how and when do they get to hook-in the actual widgets?

hg: openjfx/8/graphics/rt: Ensemble8: Fix for RT-34713 Ensemble8: TreeTableView sample is bad in editing: edited values disappear

2013-12-09 Thread hang . vo
Changeset: 3bdcd01853bf Author:Alexander Kouznetsov Date: 2013-12-09 12:52 -0800 URL: http://hg.openjdk.java.net/openjfx/8/graphics/rt/rev/3bdcd01853bf Ensemble8: Fix for RT-34713 Ensemble8: TreeTableView sample is bad in editing: edited values disappear +

Re: Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-09 Thread Pedro Duque Vieira
@Felix: Thank you for the kind words (although I don't consider myself a rock star :-) ). As you mentioned I said I didn't want to make a iOS 7 native look and feel, I said it because I consider it broken as well as many other influential designers do. Broken in the sense that it has various wrong

Re: Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-09 Thread Felix Bembrick
Scott, I think the take-away here is that there simply aren't the features out of the box in JavaFX/Java (even with CSS, skins, FXML) to implement the best platform/UI abstraction and, given the various and vastly differing opinions of how this layer should work or look, I doubt that any official

hg: openjfx/8/graphics/rt: Ensemble8: Fix for RT-34769 Ensemble8: TableCellFactoryApp sample needs cleanup

2013-12-09 Thread hang . vo
Changeset: a5d957304de7 Author:Alexander Kouznetsov Date: 2013-12-09 13:18 -0800 URL: http://hg.openjdk.java.net/openjfx/8/graphics/rt/rev/a5d957304de7 Ensemble8: Fix for RT-34769 Ensemble8: TableCellFactoryApp sample needs cleanup !

hg: openjfx/8/graphics/rt: 2 new changesets

2013-12-09 Thread hang . vo
Changeset: 2883ec7be017 Author:Alexander Kouznetsov Date: 2013-12-09 13:36 -0800 URL: http://hg.openjdk.java.net/openjfx/8/graphics/rt/rev/2883ec7be017 Ensemble8: Fix for RT-34448 HTML Editor in Ensemble8 is not completely visible !

hg: openjfx/8/graphics/rt: 2 new changesets

2013-12-09 Thread hang . vo
Changeset: 53cb68c02d07 Author:John Yoon john.y...@oracle.com Date: 2013-12-09 12:38 -0800 URL: http://hg.openjdk.java.net/openjfx/8/graphics/rt/rev/53cb68c02d07 [Samples Only][RT-33754] Ensemble Icons !

hg: openjfx/8/graphics/rt: [Samples Only][RT-33754] Ensemble Icons

2013-12-09 Thread hang . vo
Changeset: bee5e52e68ae Author:John Yoon john.y...@oracle.com Date: 2013-12-09 14:28 -0800 URL: http://hg.openjdk.java.net/openjfx/8/graphics/rt/rev/bee5e52e68ae [Samples Only][RT-33754] Ensemble Icons !

hg: openjfx/8/graphics/rt: 2 new changesets

2013-12-09 Thread hang . vo
Changeset: 57153bcef81f Author:kcr Date: 2013-12-09 15:15 -0800 URL: http://hg.openjdk.java.net/openjfx/8/graphics/rt/rev/57153bcef81f RT-34389: [doc] cssref.html copyright is incorrect Contributed-by: Tom Schindl ! apps/samples/Ensemble8/build.xml !

8 post-commit review request: RT-19968: Document that Platform.runLater must not be called before FX is initialized

2013-12-09 Thread Kevin Rushforth
Please review the following javadoc change (post-commit). https://javafx-jira.kenai.com/browse/RT-19968 -- Kevin

Re: Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-09 Thread Scott Palmer
Well there is the option of doing some sort of application support library in an external project first. Much like the ControlsFX stuff. If it works out, some aspects can be pulled into the JavaFX runtime at a later date. Scott On Dec 9, 2013 4:14 PM, Felix Bembrick felix.bembr...@gmail.com

Re: Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-09 Thread Felix Bembrick
Yes, I think that's the best approach. I am working on some aspects of this internally and hopefully next year I can contribute some parts of that :-) Felix On 10 December 2013 10:49, Scott Palmer swpal...@gmail.com wrote: Well there is the option of doing some sort of application support

hg: openjfx/8u-dev/rt: 9 new changesets

2013-12-09 Thread hang . vo
Changeset: 1428f17dbbf5 Author:jgiles Date: 2013-12-09 12:32 +1300 URL: http://hg.openjdk.java.net/openjfx/8u-dev/rt/rev/1428f17dbbf5 RT-18439: [TableView, TreeTableView] Shift-Up/Down behaves weirdly in multi-cell selection mode !

Re: Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-09 Thread Jonathan Giles
This is my preferred approach. There is no need for the vast bulk of the work to be initiated within OpenJFX, and a third party project for touch / mobile devices, much like there are for JavaFX on the desktop, is the natural starting place to explore ideas. If I had unlimited time and resources,

RE: 8 post-commit review request: RT-19968: Document that Platform.runLater must not be called before FX is initialized

2013-12-09 Thread John Smith
The comments around application runtime initialization seem like they belong more properly in the application lifecycle javadoc for the Application class rather than on the Platform.runLater method specifically, though I do see how the runtime initialization cuts across multiple classes

Re: 8 post-commit review request: RT-19968: Document that Platform.runLater must not be called before FX is initialized

2013-12-09 Thread Kevin Rushforth
(note that review comments should go into the JIRA) Hi John, You raise a good point about possibly moving the runtime initialization section. Perhaps it's worth a follow-up JIRA for FX 8u20 or 9 to address this. One possibility is to have most of the documentation in the Application class,

8 review request: RT-32512: Fix URL for JavaFX API docs license terms link

2013-12-09 Thread Kevin Rushforth
Mong, Please review the following (in the JIRA). https://javafx-jira.kenai.com/browse/RT-32512 Thanks. -- Kevin

Re: 8 review request: RT-32512: Fix URL for JavaFX API docs license terms link

2013-12-09 Thread Mong Hang Vo
Kevin, Looks great. Approved. Thanks, Mong On 12/9/2013 5:58 PM, Kevin Rushforth wrote: Mong, Please review the following (in the JIRA). https://javafx-jira.kenai.com/browse/RT-32512 Thanks. -- Kevin

hg: openjfx/8/graphics/rt: RT-32512: Fix URL for JavaFX API docs license terms link

2013-12-09 Thread hang . vo
Changeset: c818e4054cc7 Author:kcr Date: 2013-12-09 18:29 -0800 URL: http://hg.openjdk.java.net/openjfx/8/graphics/rt/rev/c818e4054cc7 RT-32512: Fix URL for JavaFX API docs license terms link Reviewed-by: mtvo ! apps/samples/Ensemble8/build.xml ! build.properties !

8 review request: RT-21569: Document that applications should avoid flooding FX with Platform.runLater calls

2013-12-09 Thread Kevin Rushforth
Please review the following: https://javafx-jira.kenai.com/browse/RT-21569 -- Kevin

hg: openjfx/8/graphics/rt: 2 new changesets

2013-12-09 Thread hang . vo
Changeset: a09aab639ad0 Author:kcr Date: 2013-12-09 18:52 -0800 URL: http://hg.openjdk.java.net/openjfx/8/graphics/rt/rev/a09aab639ad0 RT-34522: Update javafxpackager man pages for JDK/FX 8 Contributed-by: Nancy Hildebrandt -

hg: openjfx/8/graphics/rt: [Samples Only][RT-33754] Ensemble Icons

2013-12-09 Thread hang . vo
Changeset: 58f12825ecac Author:John Yoon john.y...@oracle.com Date: 2013-12-09 19:57 -0800 URL: http://hg.openjdk.java.net/openjfx/8/graphics/rt/rev/58f12825ecac [Samples Only][RT-33754] Ensemble Icons !

hg: openjfx/8/graphics/rt: Ensemble8: Fix for RT-34006 Simplify Ensemble8 categories

2013-12-09 Thread hang . vo
Changeset: 8f0a6f77ec8f Author:Alexander Kouznetsov Date: 2013-12-09 20:19 -0800 URL: http://hg.openjdk.java.net/openjfx/8/graphics/rt/rev/8f0a6f77ec8f Ensemble8: Fix for RT-34006 Simplify Ensemble8 categories !

hg: openjfx/8/graphics/rt: 2 new changesets

2013-12-09 Thread hang . vo
Changeset: 0d24fac99293 Author:Alexander Kouznetsov Date: 2013-12-09 20:36 -0800 URL: http://hg.openjdk.java.net/openjfx/8/graphics/rt/rev/0d24fac99293 Ensemble8: Part #2 of fix for RT-34006 Simplify Ensemble8 categories !

hg: openjfx/8/graphics/rt: Ensemble8: Fix for RT-33532 Ensemble8: alternative column and row fill visible options doesn't work

2013-12-09 Thread hang . vo
Changeset: 9bbe05e11f94 Author:Alexander Kouznetsov Date: 2013-12-09 21:17 -0800 URL: http://hg.openjdk.java.net/openjfx/8/graphics/rt/rev/9bbe05e11f94 Ensemble8: Fix for RT-33532 Ensemble8: alternative column and row fill visible options doesn't work !

hg: openjfx/8/graphics/rt: 2 new changesets

2013-12-09 Thread hang . vo
Changeset: 5fc3e61b4f21 Author:Alexander Kouznetsov Date: 2013-12-09 21:04 -0800 URL: http://hg.openjdk.java.net/openjfx/8/graphics/rt/rev/5fc3e61b4f21 Ensemble8: Fix for RT-34714 Ensemble8: WebView sample limits its size !

hg: openjfx/8/graphics/rt: Sync up SceneBuilder changes

2013-12-09 Thread hang . vo
Changeset: 6dfa55f03e62 Author:Yves Joan yves.j...@oracle.com Date: 2013-12-10 08:36 +0100 URL: http://hg.openjdk.java.net/openjfx/8/graphics/rt/rev/6dfa55f03e62 Sync up SceneBuilder changes +