Re: Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-09 Thread Felix Bembrick
On 9 December 2013 16:10, Scott Palmer swpal...@gmail.com wrote: On Dec 8, 2013, at 9:18 PM, Felix Bembrick felix.bembr...@gmail.com wrote: snip Firstly, it will *never* be possible to completely emulate the native look and feel. Sure it is. Though it may never be practical, for

Re: Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-09 Thread Werner Lehmann
By the way, platform order of dialog buttons is implemented by the ButtonBar control in ControlsFX. It is of course Java8 only but can easily be brought back to FX2. Werner On 09.12.2013 10:45, Hendrik Ebbers wrote: Next to the skinning of controls additional features are needed. One example

Re: Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-09 Thread Tom Eugelink
All I know, as a 3rd party control developer, is that I want to be able to setup the CSS of my controls in such a way that as much of a new skin is automatically adopted; borders, colors, focus rendering, etc. Tom

Re: Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-09 Thread Stephen Winnall
On 9 Dec 2013, at 03:18, Felix Bembrick felix.bembr...@gmail.com wrote: @Stephen, you are absolutely right about this. But such an approach (and pretty much *any* approach) to emulated native look and feels is fraught with difficulties and complexities. Firstly, it will *never* be

Re: Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-09 Thread Felix Bembrick
Agreed that Quaqua did a great job and lets not lose sight of the fact that I am totally praising the efforts of everyone who has worked in this frustrating and tedious area of UI development/support. I just think the obvious talents of those people could be utilised for a purpose less likely

Re: Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-09 Thread Stephen Winnall
Just to take a completely different tack: I have a sneaking suspicion that the whole approach to UI design is wrong. Aside from the platform abstraction thing, I wonder whether we shouldn’t be approaching UIs from a design pattern perspective. The application programmer is the wrong person to

Re: Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-09 Thread Scott Palmer
I see the point of he higher-level abstraction, but I think we need more control over the user experience than that for most cases. If not simply for aesthetics, there are times when I know I want a combobox vs. a spinner vs. a list with a single selection model. What we need are more of what

Re: Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-09 Thread Stephen Winnall
I am with you on the design pattern approach you refer to which is basically a higher level of abstraction than say one which actually specifies which widget types to use. But who is this someone who loves the target platform and how and when do they get to hook-in the actual widgets?

Re: Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-09 Thread Pedro Duque Vieira
@Felix: Thank you for the kind words (although I don't consider myself a rock star :-) ). As you mentioned I said I didn't want to make a iOS 7 native look and feel, I said it because I consider it broken as well as many other influential designers do. Broken in the sense that it has various wrong

Re: Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-09 Thread Felix Bembrick
Scott, I think the take-away here is that there simply aren't the features out of the box in JavaFX/Java (even with CSS, skins, FXML) to implement the best platform/UI abstraction and, given the various and vastly differing opinions of how this layer should work or look, I doubt that any official

Re: Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-09 Thread Scott Palmer
Well there is the option of doing some sort of application support library in an external project first. Much like the ControlsFX stuff. If it works out, some aspects can be pulled into the JavaFX runtime at a later date. Scott On Dec 9, 2013 4:14 PM, Felix Bembrick felix.bembr...@gmail.com

Re: Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-09 Thread Felix Bembrick
Yes, I think that's the best approach. I am working on some aspects of this internally and hopefully next year I can contribute some parts of that :-) Felix On 10 December 2013 10:49, Scott Palmer swpal...@gmail.com wrote: Well there is the option of doing some sort of application support

Re: Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-09 Thread Jonathan Giles
This is my preferred approach. There is no need for the vast bulk of the work to be initiated within OpenJFX, and a third party project for touch / mobile devices, much like there are for JavaFX on the desktop, is the natural starting place to explore ideas. If I had unlimited time and resources,

Re: Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-08 Thread Jonathan Giles
At present there are no plans to introduce any further API or functionality in this area, but if there is something you are wanting then you should file feature requests in Jira. -- Jonathan On 9/12/2013 11:54 a.m., Pedro Duque Vieira wrote: Hi, Is there any Look and Feel mechanism in place,

Re: Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-08 Thread Jasper Potts
You can set skin classes from CSS so should be able to do everything you could with Swing and more. With just a CSS file and skins as and when needed. Jasper On Dec 8, 2013, at 3:00 PM, Jonathan Giles jonathan.gi...@oracle.com wrote: At present there are no plans to introduce any further

Re: Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-08 Thread Stephen Winnall
It may be possible to change the LOOK with CSS, but not the FEEL, which is where Java apps have traditionally failed big time. Some things that I don’t think can be changed with CSS: 1) texts 2) order of buttons 3) escape characters for shortcuts 4) menus 5) system-level stuff (double-clicking

Re: Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-08 Thread Pedro Duque Vieira
Thanks! @Jasper: Yes, that's very interesting! Forgot that was possible to do in CSS. On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 12:15 AM, Stephen Winnall st...@winnall.ch wrote: It may be possible to change the LOOK with CSS, but not the FEEL, which is where Java apps have traditionally failed big time. Some

Re: Look and feel mechanism?

2013-12-08 Thread Felix Bembrick
@Stephen, you are absolutely right about this. But such an approach (and pretty much *any* approach) to emulated native look and feels is fraught with difficulties and complexities. Firstly, it will *never* be possible to completely emulate the native look and feel. And, even if the differences