Re: Poor font rendering..

2014-03-12 Thread Felipe Heidrich

On Mar 11, 2014, at 1:57 AM, Robert Fisher rfis...@tesis.de wrote:

 Suppose I want to see what GDI, SWT-like text looks like in JavaFX. I should 
 set -Djavafx.text=t2k. But looking at the picture 
 (http://i.imgur.com/CGyckge.png) it still seems there is some additional 
 blurring in JavaFX. Some additional sub-pixel positioning logic, perhaps?

Exactly,

See GlyphCache#addDataToQuad(), in the isLCDCache case,
dx1 = Math.round(dx1 * 3.0f) / 3.0f;

Later in /graphics/src/main/jsl-prism/PaintTextureSecondPassLCD.jsl
that dx1 (which was rounded to .0, 0.33, 0.66) is used to offset the pixel 
color RGB values to produce the sub pixel image.

Rounding that dx1 to pixel (like GlyphCache does for grayscale text), then I 
would expected -Djavafx.text=t2k and SWT to look very similar.

Cheers
Felipe



Re: Poor font rendering..

2014-03-11 Thread Robert Fisher
Hi Felipe,

thanks for the detailed reply, that Firefox blog post is interesting.

I guess sub-pixel positioning is the crucial point here. If a black, 1-pixel 
wide vertical stroke is positioned between two pixels, you'll get a dimmer, 
2-pixel wide stroke instead. 

Suppose I want to see what GDI, SWT-like text looks like in JavaFX. I should 
set -Djavafx.text=t2k. But looking at the picture 
(http://i.imgur.com/CGyckge.png) it still seems there is some additional 
blurring in JavaFX. Some additional sub-pixel positioning logic, perhaps?

But I concede that there has to be a compromise between positioning and 
'vibrancy' for small text.

Cheers,
Rob


-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: openjfx-dev [mailto:openjfx-dev-boun...@openjdk.java.net] Im Auftrag von 
Felipe Heidrich
Gesendet: Montag, 10. März 2014 18:46
An: OpenJFX Mailing List
Betreff: Re: Poor font rendering..

Thank you Rob,


DirectWrite is the engine JavaFX uses to produces glyph masks (white on black), 
therefore JavaFX text should resemble that of DirectWrite (it is not exactly 
the same, as JavaFX does its own color blending and gamma correction).

We decided to use DirectWrite for JavaFX because it is the most modern native 
technology on Windows that we can use.
In particular, we were interested on sub pixel positioned text. GDI, for 
example, all glyph positioning are expressed as integer, and glyphs are 
(usually) aggressively hinted.

Interesting FIreFox had all the same trouble when they switched from GDI to 
DirectWrite.
Please read 
https://blog.mozilla.org/nattokirai/2011/08/11/directwrite-text-rendering-in-firefox-6/
 
JavaFX always uses DirectWrite natural mode rendering. We too can provided 
switches for GDI Classic rendering mode, cleartype level, enhanced contrast, 
gamma, etc.
It is all defined here
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/dd371285(v=vs.85).aspx

Maybe that would help ?

Notes:
SWT uses GDI to render text (I know, I implemented it). 
JavaFX with -Djavafx.text=t2k uses GDI to render LCD text, SWT and JavaFX with 
-Djavafx.text=t2k are not same, but similar, likely again because JavaFX does 
its own color blending and gamma correction.

Felipe



Re: Poor font rendering..

2014-03-10 Thread Felipe Heidrich
Thank you Rob,

It would be interesting to test against a DirectWrite app. I’m not sure if you 
have VS, but if you do it should be simple to modify  the Simple Text tab in 
the DirectWrite Hello World Sample to use the same font and text: 
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/dd368048(v=vs.85).aspx

I have attached your screenshot to 
https://javafx-jira.kenai.com/browse/RT-36146 for now so it doesn’t get lost.

Regards
Felipe


On Mar 7, 2014, at 1:41 AM, Robert Fisher rfis...@tesis.de wrote:

 Hi Felipe, Hi Phil,
 
 Thanks for the tips. Phil, your program yielded the following output:
 
 Text-specific antialiasing enable key : LCD HRGB antialiasing text mode
 Text-specific LCD contrast key : 120
 
 I tried all of the 5 settings that Felix mentioned. Here are my results for 
 the default font (Segoe UI 9pt, black):
 
 http://i.imgur.com/45FewcL.png
 
 The difference in quality between the JavaFX images and the rest is too great 
 to be chalked up to personal preferences. Whether it's the fault of JavaFX, 
 or the native rendering mechanism being used, or my own configuration is 
 another question. 
 
 Cheers,
 Rob
 
 



Re: Poor font rendering..

2014-03-10 Thread Felipe Heidrich
Thank you Rob,


DirectWrite is the engine JavaFX uses to produces glyph masks (white on black), 
therefore JavaFX text should resemble that of DirectWrite (it is not exactly 
the same, as JavaFX does its own color blending and gamma correction).

We decided to use DirectWrite for JavaFX because it is the most modern native 
technology on Windows that we can use.
In particular, we were interested on sub pixel positioned text. GDI, for 
example, all glyph positioning are expressed as integer, and glyphs are 
(usually) aggressively hinted.

Interesting FIreFox had all the same trouble when they switched from GDI to 
DirectWrite.
Please read 
https://blog.mozilla.org/nattokirai/2011/08/11/directwrite-text-rendering-in-firefox-6/
 
JavaFX always uses DirectWrite natural mode rendering. We too can provided 
switches for GDI Classic rendering mode, cleartype level, enhanced contrast, 
gamma, etc.
It is all defined here
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/dd371285(v=vs.85).aspx

Maybe that would help ?

Notes:
SWT uses GDI to render text (I know, I implemented it). 
JavaFX with -Djavafx.text=t2k uses GDI to render LCD text, 
SWT and JavaFX with -Djavafx.text=t2k are not same, but similar, likely again 
because JavaFX does its own color blending and gamma correction.

Felipe


On Mar 10, 2014, at 10:06 AM, Robert Fisher rfis...@tesis.de wrote:

 Hi Felipe,
 
 I've added the results from the DirectWrite 'Hello World' sample to the image:
 
 http://i.imgur.com/CGyckge.png
 
 Is this supposed to be the benchmark for how black text should look? In my 
 opinion the text in Chrome / Firefox / Eclipse is a lot clearer and sharper 
 when viewed at 100%.
 
 Cheers,
 Rob
 
 



Re: Poor font rendering..

2014-03-07 Thread Robert Fisher
Hi Felipe, Hi Phil,

Thanks for the tips. Phil, your program yielded the following output:

Text-specific antialiasing enable key : LCD HRGB antialiasing text mode
Text-specific LCD contrast key : 120

 I tried all of the 5 settings that Felix mentioned. Here are my results for 
the default font (Segoe UI 9pt, black):

http://i.imgur.com/45FewcL.png

The difference in quality between the JavaFX images and the rest is too great 
to be chalked up to personal preferences. Whether it's the fault of JavaFX, or 
the native rendering mechanism being used, or my own configuration is another 
question. 

Cheers,
Rob




Re: Poor font rendering..

2014-03-06 Thread Robert Fisher
Hi all,

I think there is still room for improvement in terms of the 'contrast' or 
'vibrancy' of fonts in JavaFX. Take a look at this example:

http://i.imgur.com/6qSamTO.png

I'm running Windows 7. What you are seeing is a screenshot of the default font, 
zoomed in 600%. The top text is JavaFX 8 (latest build as of 3 days ago). The 
bottom text is Outlook but could just as easily have been Firefox, Chrome, 
Word, or Eclipse SWT - they're all indistinguishable to me.

The JavaFX text doesn't look as vibrant. In particular the smoothing algorithm 
seems to be making poor colour choices for the vertical strokes. At 100% the 
difference is subtle but important.

I have the text fill set to Color.BLACK and the font smoothing type set to LCD. 
Is there something else I can configure to get more vibrant-looking fonts?

Cheers!
Rob


-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: openjfx-dev-boun...@openjdk.java.net 
[mailto:openjfx-dev-boun...@openjdk.java.net] Im Auftrag von Stephen F Northover
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 5. März 2014 18:30
An: Pedro Duque Vieira; OpenJFX Mailing List
Betreff: Re: Poor font rendering..

Hi Pedro,

Font rendering in FX8 is using the native rasterizer so the glyphs should be 
identical to what the operating system is rendering.  That said, we may have a 
bug. Please enter a JIRA with sample code and a screen shot of the bad 
rendering.  That will give us something concrete to work with.

Thanks,
Steve

On 2014-03-05 12:10 PM, Pedro Duque Vieira wrote:
 Hi,

 As evidenced by the screenshots in http://pixelduke.wordpress.com/ 
 blog posts about JMetro, javafx as noticeably poor font rendering 
 visuals. The most recent screenshots were taken on a windows 8.1 
 machine and the older ones on windows 7, using Segoe UI (windows 7  8 system 
 font).

 1- As this been reported?

 2- Is the javafx team working on it?

 3- Is there something the developer can do to increase font rendering 
 quality?

 Thanks!
 Best regards,






Re: Poor font rendering..

2014-03-06 Thread Scott Palmer
This looks to me like a sub-pixel horizontal alignment issue.  Perhaps it
is just a difference in kerning or something along those lines?

Scott


On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 4:21 AM, Robert Fisher rfis...@tesis.de wrote:

 Hi all,

 I think there is still room for improvement in terms of the 'contrast' or
 'vibrancy' of fonts in JavaFX. Take a look at this example:

 http://i.imgur.com/6qSamTO.png

 I'm running Windows 7. What you are seeing is a screenshot of the default
 font, zoomed in 600%. The top text is JavaFX 8 (latest build as of 3 days
 ago). The bottom text is Outlook but could just as easily have been
 Firefox, Chrome, Word, or Eclipse SWT - they're all indistinguishable to me.

 The JavaFX text doesn't look as vibrant. In particular the smoothing
 algorithm seems to be making poor colour choices for the vertical strokes.
 At 100% the difference is subtle but important.

 I have the text fill set to Color.BLACK and the font smoothing type set to
 LCD. Is there something else I can configure to get more vibrant-looking
 fonts?

 Cheers!
 Rob


 -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
 Von: openjfx-dev-boun...@openjdk.java.net [mailto:
 openjfx-dev-boun...@openjdk.java.net] Im Auftrag von Stephen F Northover
 Gesendet: Mittwoch, 5. März 2014 18:30
 An: Pedro Duque Vieira; OpenJFX Mailing List
 Betreff: Re: Poor font rendering..

 Hi Pedro,

 Font rendering in FX8 is using the native rasterizer so the glyphs should
 be identical to what the operating system is rendering.  That said, we may
 have a bug. Please enter a JIRA with sample code and a screen shot of the
 bad rendering.  That will give us something concrete to work with.

 Thanks,
 Steve

 On 2014-03-05 12:10 PM, Pedro Duque Vieira wrote:
  Hi,
 
  As evidenced by the screenshots in http://pixelduke.wordpress.com/
  blog posts about JMetro, javafx as noticeably poor font rendering
  visuals. The most recent screenshots were taken on a windows 8.1
  machine and the older ones on windows 7, using Segoe UI (windows 7  8
 system font).
 
  1- As this been reported?
 
  2- Is the javafx team working on it?
 
  3- Is there something the developer can do to increase font rendering
  quality?
 
  Thanks!
  Best regards,
 
 





Re: Poor font rendering..

2014-03-06 Thread Felipe Heidrich
Thank you Pedro,

Please report all the information to the bug system (file a new report if 
needed). Assign it to me.

Regards
Felipe


On Mar 5, 2014, at 5:39 PM, Pedro Duque Vieira pedro.duquevie...@gmail.com 
wrote:

 1. It doesn't appear to be related with that issue but than again, it might..
 
 3. Thank you very much! I'll try out those settings to see how it looks. I'm 
 not very familinar with the internals of how windows renders fonts but IMHO I 
 would think that such poor results should be possible to avoid even with 
 default settings.
 c) When you say 80, you mean 80px right? Even at 42px the results are quite 
 poor.
 d) That's not the case, but I'll double check, just in case.
 e) That's not the case.
 
 To answer your question: no, it looks bad both in windows 7 and windows 8 
 (8.1).
 
 Before submitting the bug I think it's better for me to double check if it's 
 not my computer's fault that the results are so poor because as I said I 
 don't know much about the font rendering internals of windows, but as my 
 computer has a 1900x1200 display (slightly superior than full hd) I would 
 expect much better results using the system font (Segoe UI). Like I said even 
 at 42px, using the system font, the results are very poor (you can attest to 
 that by looking at the screenshots in my blog - pixelduke).
 
 Thanks again, regards,
  
 1.
 Maybe https://javafx-jira.kenai.com/browse/RT-35402
 2.
 Sure. The above bug is in my TODO list as a matter of fact,
 3. Things to try:
 a) Text#setFontSmoothingType(LCD) ?
 b)  -Dprism.text=t2k (in the command line)
 c)  if the font size is bigger than 80 JavaFX renders text using paths, try 
 font size  80 (so that glyph images are used)
 d) make sure the text node does not lay in a transparent cached parent, or 
 any other type node that is internally rendered using intermediate 
 transparent texture. See https://javafx-jira.kenai.com/browse/RT-31100 for 
 details.
 e) if the node is cached (with or without background set), make sure the node 
 is not scaled up.
 Question to you, does it look good on Windows 7 and bad on Windows 8 ?
 Please, use the jira to report results.
 Thank you
 Felipe
 
 -- 
 Pedro Duque Vieira



Re: Poor font rendering..

2014-03-06 Thread Phil Race
 fonts?

Cheers!
Rob


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mailto:openjfx-dev-boun...@openjdk.java.net
mailto:openjfx-dev-boun...@openjdk.java.net] Im Auftrag von
Stephen F Northover
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 5. März 2014 18:30
An: Pedro Duque Vieira; OpenJFX Mailing List
Betreff: Re: Poor font rendering..

Hi Pedro,

Font rendering in FX8 is using the native rasterizer
so the
glyphs should be identical to what the operating 
system is

rendering.  That said, we may have a bug. Please enter
a JIRA
with sample code and a screen shot of the bad
rendering.  That
will give us something concrete to work with.

Thanks,
Steve

On 2014-03-05 12:10 PM, Pedro Duque Vieira wrote:

Hi,

As evidenced by the screenshots in
http://pixelduke.wordpress.com/
blog posts about JMetro, javafx as noticeably poor
font
rendering
visuals. The most recent screenshots were taken on a
windows 8.1
machine and the older ones on windows 7, using
Segoe UI
(windows 7  8 system font).

1- As this been reported?

2- Is the javafx team working on it?

3- Is there something the developer can do to 
increase

font rendering
quality?

Thanks!
Best regards,













Re: Poor font rendering..

2014-03-06 Thread Felipe Heidrich

Hi Robert

On Mar 6, 2014, at 1:21 AM, Robert Fisher rfis...@tesis.de wrote:

  Is there something else I can configure to get more vibrant-looking fonts?


Take a look at:
https://javafx-jira.kenai.com/browse/RT-14187

Try

a) -Dprism.subpixeltext=false
b) -Dprism.subpixeltext=true
c) -Dprism.subpixeltext=native
d) -Dprism.subpixeltext=vertical
e) -Dprism.text=t2k

Let me know if anything makes it better to you.

Regards
Felipe





Re: Poor font rendering..

2014-03-06 Thread Scott Palmer
 for
 the vertical strokes. At 100% the difference is subtle but
 important.

 I have the text fill set to Color.BLACK and the font
 smoothing
 type set to LCD. Is there something else I can
 configure to
 get more vibrant-looking fonts?

 Cheers!
 Rob


 -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
 Von: openjfx-dev-boun...@openjdk.java.net
 mailto:openjfx-dev-boun...@openjdk.java.net
 mailto:openjfx-dev-boun...@openjdk.java.net
 mailto:openjfx-dev-boun...@openjdk.java.net
 [mailto:openjfx-dev-boun...@openjdk.java.net

 mailto:openjfx-dev-boun...@openjdk.java.net

 mailto:openjfx-dev-boun...@openjdk.java.net
 mailto:openjfx-dev-boun...@openjdk.java.net] Im Auftrag von
 Stephen F Northover
 Gesendet: Mittwoch, 5. März 2014 18:30
 An: Pedro Duque Vieira; OpenJFX Mailing List
 Betreff: Re: Poor font rendering..

 Hi Pedro,

 Font rendering in FX8 is using the native rasterizer
 so the
 glyphs should be identical to what the operating system is
 rendering.  That said, we may have a bug. Please enter
 a JIRA
 with sample code and a screen shot of the bad
 rendering.  That
 will give us something concrete to work with.

 Thanks,
 Steve

 On 2014-03-05 12:10 PM, Pedro Duque Vieira wrote:

 Hi,

 As evidenced by the screenshots in
 http://pixelduke.wordpress.com/
 blog posts about JMetro, javafx as noticeably poor
 font
 rendering
 visuals. The most recent screenshots were taken on a
 windows 8.1
 machine and the older ones on windows 7, using
 Segoe UI
 (windows 7  8 system font).

 1- As this been reported?

 2- Is the javafx team working on it?

 3- Is there something the developer can do to increase
 font rendering
 quality?

 Thanks!
 Best regards,











Re: Poor font rendering..

2014-03-06 Thread Pedro Duque Vieira
I have created an issue on jira:
https://javafx-jira.kenai.com/browse/RT-36146

Felipe, I couldn't assign the issue to you but I think someone already did.

Guys, could you please add in your comments/suggestions to the issue? I
guess that would be nice for the person who is going to fix it or the
developers that might stumble into this.

Thanks!

-- 
Pedro Duque Vieira


Re: Poor font rendering..

2014-03-06 Thread Phil Race
 many times before that
someone can
always point to
a difference from 'native' rendering simply
because the
platforms
like OS X and Windows
have multiple rasterisers and multiple font
technologies
all of
which are different
from each other.  So whilst any notably 'poor'
rendering
needs to
be looked into
it maybe sometimes an artifact of one rendering path
compared to
another ..

-phil.


On 3/6/2014 1:21 AM, Robert Fisher wrote:

Hi all,

I think there is still room for improvement in
terms
of the
'contrast' or 'vibrancy' of fonts in JavaFX.
Take a
look at
this example:

http://i.imgur.com/6qSamTO.png

I'm running Windows 7. What you are seeing is a
screenshot of
the default font, zoomed in 600%. The top text
is JavaFX 8
(latest build as of 3 days ago). The bottom
text is
Outlook
but could just as easily have been Firefox,
Chrome,
Word, or
Eclipse SWT - they're all indistinguishable to me.

The JavaFX text doesn't look as vibrant. In
particular the
smoothing algorithm seems to be making poor colour
choices for
the vertical strokes. At 100% the difference
is subtle but
important.

I have the text fill set to Color.BLACK and
the font
smoothing
type set to LCD. Is there something else I can
configure to
get more vibrant-looking fonts?

Cheers!
Rob


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Von: openjfx-dev-boun...@openjdk.java.net
mailto:openjfx-dev-boun...@openjdk.java.net
mailto:openjfx-dev-boun...@openjdk.java.net
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mailto:openjfx-dev-boun...@openjdk.java.net
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mailto:openjfx-dev-boun...@openjdk.java.net
mailto:openjfx-dev-boun...@openjdk.java.net] Im Auftrag von
Stephen F Northover
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 5. März 2014 18:30
An: Pedro Duque Vieira; OpenJFX Mailing List
Betreff: Re: Poor font rendering..

Hi Pedro,

Font rendering in FX8 is using the native
rasterizer
so the
glyphs should be identical to what the
operating system is
rendering.  That said, we may have a bug.
Please enter
a JIRA
with sample code and a screen shot of the bad
rendering.  That
will give us something concrete to work with.

Thanks,
Steve

On 2014-03-05 12:10 PM, Pedro Duque Vieira wrote:

Hi,

As evidenced by the screenshots in
http://pixelduke.wordpress.com/
blog posts about JMetro, javafx as
noticeably poor
font
rendering
visuals. The most recent screenshots were
taken on a
windows 8.1
machine and the older ones on windows 7, using
Segoe UI
(windows 7  8 system font).

1- As this been reported?

2- Is the javafx team working on it?

3- Is there something the developer can do
to increase
font rendering
quality

Re: Poor font rendering..

2014-03-06 Thread Jim Graham
 what the SystemParameterInfo
setting is.

import java.awt.*;
import java.util.*;
public class GetGamma {
  public static void main(String args[]) {
 Toolkit tk = Toolkit.getDefaultToolkit();
 Map map =
(Map)tk.getDesktopProperty(awt.font.desktophints);
 if (map != null) {
  for (Object k : map.keySet()) {
System.out.println(k +  :   +
map.get(k));
 }
   }
 }
}

C:\c:\jdk1.8\bin\java GetGamma
Text-specific antialiasing enable key : LCD HRGB
antialiasing text
mode
Text-specific LCD contrast key : 120

(*) I'm sure Outlook used to be a GDI app, but who
knows what
version you are using
and what rendering technology it uses.
I've tried to make the point many times before that
someone can
always point to
a difference from 'native' rendering simply
because the
platforms
like OS X and Windows
have multiple rasterisers and multiple font
technologies
all of
which are different
from each other.  So whilst any notably 'poor'
rendering
needs to
be looked into
it maybe sometimes an artifact of one rendering path
compared to
another ..

-phil.


On 3/6/2014 1:21 AM, Robert Fisher wrote:

Hi all,

I think there is still room for improvement in
terms
of the
'contrast' or 'vibrancy' of fonts in JavaFX.
Take a
look at
this example:

http://i.imgur.com/6qSamTO.png

I'm running Windows 7. What you are seeing is a
screenshot of
the default font, zoomed in 600%. The top text
is JavaFX 8
(latest build as of 3 days ago). The bottom
text is
Outlook
but could just as easily have been Firefox,
Chrome,
Word, or
Eclipse SWT - they're all indistinguishable to
me.

The JavaFX text doesn't look as vibrant. In
particular the
smoothing algorithm seems to be making poor
colour
choices for
the vertical strokes. At 100% the difference
is subtle but
important.

I have the text fill set to Color.BLACK and
the font
smoothing
type set to LCD. Is there something else I can
configure to
get more vibrant-looking fonts?

Cheers!
Rob


-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: openjfx-dev-boun...@openjdk.java.net
mailto:openjfx-dev-boun...@openjdk.java.net
mailto:openjfx-dev-boun...@openjdk.java.net
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mailto:openjfx-dev-boun...@openjdk.java.net
mailto:openjfx-dev-boun...@openjdk.java.net] Im Auftrag von
Stephen F Northover
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 5. März 2014 18:30
An: Pedro Duque Vieira; OpenJFX Mailing List
Betreff: Re: Poor font rendering..

Hi Pedro,

Font rendering in FX8 is using the native
rasterizer
so the
glyphs should be identical to what the
operating system is
rendering.  That said, we may have a bug.
Please enter
a JIRA

Re: Poor font rendering..

2014-03-05 Thread Stephen F Northover

Hi Pedro,

Font rendering in FX8 is using the native rasterizer so the glyphs 
should be identical to what the operating system is rendering.  That 
said, we may have a bug. Please enter a JIRA with sample code and a 
screen shot of the bad rendering.  That will give us something concrete 
to work with.


Thanks,
Steve

On 2014-03-05 12:10 PM, Pedro Duque Vieira wrote:

Hi,

As evidenced by the screenshots in http://pixelduke.wordpress.com/ blog
posts about JMetro, javafx as noticeably poor font rendering visuals. The
most recent screenshots were taken on a windows 8.1 machine and the older
ones on windows 7, using Segoe UI (windows 7  8 system font).

1- As this been reported?

2- Is the javafx team working on it?

3- Is there something the developer can do to increase font rendering
quality?

Thanks!
Best regards,