V-up texture coordinate support
My JavaFX 3D model importers convert geometric data to the JavaFX 3D coordinate sytem to support the default camera model (viewing into the screen along the +Z-axis). A Y-up right-handed coordinate system (e.g. COLLADA-, OBJ-, X3D-exports from modelling tools) is mapped as follows: +Y - -Y, +X - +X, +Z - -Z. This includes the adjustment of all transforms and also the v-flipping of the texture coordinates: v - 1 - v. In this case I prefer converted texture coordinates stored in the TriangelMesh instead of converting them 'backstage'. Alternatively, I consider providing an ImportOption to omit this conversions if someone wants to simulate a Y-up right-handed coordinate system in JavaFX. This would result in TriangelMesh points and texture coordinates consistent with the imported file. Now an internal v-flipping is needed to avoid upside-down textures because the corresponding texture coordinates are typically v-up oriented. Right? Simulating a Y-up right-handed coordinate system in JavaFX is discussed in Getting Started with JavaFX 3D Graphics/Camera/Y-down versus Y-up (http://docs.oracle.com/javafx/8/3d_graphics/camera.htm#CJAHFAHB). Doesn't this approach require an immediate availability of a v-flipping feature? August Am Donnerstag, den 17.10.2013, 15:08 +0200 schrieb Chien Yang chien.y...@oracle.com: Hi all, Java images are defined such that (0, 0) references the top left most pixel of the image. In JavaFX, the texture coordinate system for 3D objects is defined with its U axis increasing from left to right and the V axis increasing from top to bottom. Hence a texture coordinate of (0, 0) references pixel (0, 0), which is the top left corner of the texture, and a texture coordinate of (1, 1) references the bottom right corner of the texture. This system matches the layout of the image, which is stored such that the top-most row of pixels ends up in memory in row 0. It also matches with the default 3D coordinate system used in JavaFX where the X axis increases from left to right and the Y axis increases from top to bottom. We understand that this V-down coordinate system maybe confusing or hard to work with for some 3D content developers when using models that are defined with Y-up. We could add a V-up option (as a boolean property of Shape3D). If set, we would flip the texture coordinates when rendering, such that: V' = 1 - V. However it is very late in this release to consider any more changes, so our plan is to add this option in a post FX 8 release if it turns out to be needed. Please let us know right away if there is a compelling need for V-up support in the FX 8 release. - Kevin and Chien
Re: V-up texture coordinate support
Hi Remi, Thanks for the feedback. Since we have decided to go with a Y-down 3D coordinate system it is natural, and for internal consistency, that we stick with a V-down texture. Yes, we have considered both (1-v) coordinates flip and image flip. Our preference is to do the coordinates flip in the shader if possible. - Chien On 10/21/2013 3:56 PM, Arnaud, Remi wrote: Hi Kevin and Chien, Most 3D data formats/files are using the 'openGL' convention (right handed, and V-up textures). A lot are using y-up, but this does not matter that much in regards to the texture V-up issue. Of course there is also the 'directX' convention (left handed, V-down textures). I think you have to decide which one of those two systems you want to use, and take ALL the conversions from one or the other system. There is no point creating yet another set of conventions. If you stick with a V-down texture, it would be nice to have a way to let the rendering engine take care of this. In all modern graphics API it is very simple to add (1-v) math to the vertex shader for instance. Without direct access to the shader, I would think a flag to set the V-up or V-down for a model would be a simple addition to the API. It is not hard to calculate new UV coordinates at load time, but it is prone to errors in case some other calculations depend on the UV coordinate system. Makes the code non portable. Alternatively, you may want to adopt the same help method used by WebGL (OpenGL convention) that has to live in a web browser, where Canvas 2D images are the other direction by default. In this case, the shader is not changed, but the image loader is loading the image upside down, keep 2 copies of the image in memory… see: gl.pixelStorei(gl.UNPACK_FLIP_Y_WEBGL, true); Regards -- Remi From: Chien Yang chien.y...@oracle.commailto:chien.y...@oracle.com Date: Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 3:08 PM Subject: V-up texture coordinate support To: OpenJFX openjfx-dev@openjdk.java.netmailto:openjfx-dev@openjdk.java.net Hi all, Java images are defined such that (0, 0) references the top left most pixel of the image. In JavaFX, the texture coordinate system for 3D objects is defined with its U axis increasing from left to right and the V axis increasing from top to bottom. Hence a texture coordinate of (0, 0) references pixel (0, 0), which is the top left corner of the texture, and a texture coordinate of (1, 1) references the bottom right corner of the texture. This system matches the layout of the image, which is stored such that the top-most row of pixels ends up in memory in row 0. It also matches with the default 3D coordinate system used in JavaFX where the X axis increases from left to right and the Y axis increases from top to bottom. We understand that this V-down coordinate system maybe confusing or hard to work with for some 3D content developers when using models that are defined with Y-up. We could add a V-up option (as a boolean property of Shape3D). If set, we would flip the texture coordinates when rendering, such that: V' = 1 - V. However it is very late in this release to consider any more changes, so our plan is to add this option in a post FX 8 release if it turns out to be needed. Please let us know right away if there is a compelling need for V-up support in the FX 8 release. - Kevin and Chien
Re: V-up texture coordinate support
Hi Kevin and Chien, Most 3D data formats/files are using the 'openGL' convention (right handed, and V-up textures). A lot are using y-up, but this does not matter that much in regards to the texture V-up issue. Of course there is also the 'directX' convention (left handed, V-down textures). I think you have to decide which one of those two systems you want to use, and take ALL the conversions from one or the other system. There is no point creating yet another set of conventions. If you stick with a V-down texture, it would be nice to have a way to let the rendering engine take care of this. In all modern graphics API it is very simple to add (1-v) math to the vertex shader for instance. Without direct access to the shader, I would think a flag to set the V-up or V-down for a model would be a simple addition to the API. It is not hard to calculate new UV coordinates at load time, but it is prone to errors in case some other calculations depend on the UV coordinate system. Makes the code non portable. Alternatively, you may want to adopt the same help method used by WebGL (OpenGL convention) that has to live in a web browser, where Canvas 2D images are the other direction by default. In this case, the shader is not changed, but the image loader is loading the image upside down, keep 2 copies of the image in memory… see: gl.pixelStorei(gl.UNPACK_FLIP_Y_WEBGL, true); Regards -- Remi From: Chien Yang chien.y...@oracle.commailto:chien.y...@oracle.com Date: Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 3:08 PM Subject: V-up texture coordinate support To: OpenJFX openjfx-dev@openjdk.java.netmailto:openjfx-dev@openjdk.java.net Hi all, Java images are defined such that (0, 0) references the top left most pixel of the image. In JavaFX, the texture coordinate system for 3D objects is defined with its U axis increasing from left to right and the V axis increasing from top to bottom. Hence a texture coordinate of (0, 0) references pixel (0, 0), which is the top left corner of the texture, and a texture coordinate of (1, 1) references the bottom right corner of the texture. This system matches the layout of the image, which is stored such that the top-most row of pixels ends up in memory in row 0. It also matches with the default 3D coordinate system used in JavaFX where the X axis increases from left to right and the Y axis increases from top to bottom. We understand that this V-down coordinate system maybe confusing or hard to work with for some 3D content developers when using models that are defined with Y-up. We could add a V-up option (as a boolean property of Shape3D). If set, we would flip the texture coordinates when rendering, such that: V' = 1 - V. However it is very late in this release to consider any more changes, so our plan is to add this option in a post FX 8 release if it turns out to be needed. Please let us know right away if there is a compelling need for V-up support in the FX 8 release. - Kevin and Chien
V-up texture coordinate support
Hi all, Java images are defined such that (0, 0) references the top left most pixel of the image. In JavaFX, the texture coordinate system for 3D objects is defined with its U axis increasing from left to right and the V axis increasing from top to bottom. Hence a texture coordinate of (0, 0) references pixel (0, 0), which is the top left corner of the texture, and a texture coordinate of (1, 1) references the bottom right corner of the texture. This system matches the layout of the image, which is stored such that the top-most row of pixels ends up in memory in row 0. It also matches with the default 3D coordinate system used in JavaFX where the X axis increases from left to right and the Y axis increases from top to bottom. We understand that this V-down coordinate system maybe confusing or hard to work with for some 3D content developers when using models that are defined with Y-up. We could add a V-up option (as a boolean property of Shape3D). If set, we would flip the texture coordinates when rendering, such that: V' = 1 - V. However it is very late in this release to consider any more changes, so our plan is to add this option in a post FX 8 release if it turns out to be needed. Please let us know right away if there is a compelling need for V-up support in the FX 8 release. - Kevin and Chien
