Re: [Openocd-development] Moving to git
On Wed, 7 Oct 2009, Raúl Sánchez Siles wrote: I said I didn't want to start a flamewar and provided there has been, at least, a slight interest on my messages, I'll try to clear up some point and leave the thread alone. I cannot resist correcting you on one point though. [...] That benchmark is not taking into account wire protocol, very important for operations like clone, where I think Mercurial is more efficient. All VCS comparisons (and not only DVCS_ I've seen, Git always came out as having the tightest repository format, better than CVS, svN, HG, Bazaar, etc. And git uses the same format on thewire for clone transfer or even for bringing your local copy up to date. And I happen to know a bit about this since a significant part of the Git code involved in transfer operations is actually mine. So I don't really believe that Mercurial is more efficient in that regard. Nicolas ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
Re: [Openocd-development] Moving to git
W.r.t. choice of version control, many OpenOCD maintainers have extensive git expertise and nobody has expressed interest in Mercurial. Lots of patches come from git at this point so many top contributors clearly use it too. You'd be hard pressed to get any sort of enthusiasm about any other version control system at this point. git is more than good enough for OpenOCD's purposes and certainly better than svn. What really prompted us to switch was the policy to move away from Berlios. -- Øyvind Harboe http://www.zylin.com/zy1000.html ARM7 ARM9 ARM11 XScale Cortex JTAG debugger and flash programmer ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
Re: [Openocd-development] Moving to git
Try now. -- Øyvind Harboe http://www.zylin.com/zy1000.html ARM7 ARM9 ARM11 XScale Cortex JTAG debugger and flash programmer ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
Re: [Openocd-development] Moving to git
!!! And if anyone objects to GIT, please speak up ASAP !!! Why are we moving to GIT anyway? What was wrong with SVN? gr. Ronald ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
Re: [Openocd-development] Moving to git
I did not but I have now and tbh I'm not impressed. Sure git has some advantages, but do we really care about the distributed nature, better branch support, higher performance and other things? What I read was: Also not mentioned are Subversion's support for http(s) and WebDAV, and its excellent support for Windows (in stark contrast to git's) Please keep in mind some people are using Windows here. I hope it's not going to be a mess to get the latest OpenOCD sources or sync with the repository. gr. Ronald Original Message Subject: [Openocd-development] Moving to git From: Øyvind Harboe oyvind.har...@zylin.com To: Ronald Vanschoren yahoogro...@lieron.be Cc: openocd-development@lists.berlios.de Date: Tue Oct 06 2009 08:24:34 GMT+0200 (Romance Standard Time) On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 8:23 AM, Ronald Vanschoren yahoogro...@lieron.be wrote: !!! And if anyone objects to GIT, please speak up ASAP !!! Why are we moving to GIT anyway? What was wrong with SVN? Did you read up on git? http://git.or.cz/gitwiki/GitSvnComparsion ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
Re: [Openocd-development] Moving to git
1. Berlios svn will be made read only and the svn head will be deleted, leaving behind only a README w/reference to the openocd project at sourceforge. The entire svn history will remain available on Berlios indefinitely. Question from a dumb-ass: Is the entire repository (including all branches and tags) moved to SF or just head? Nico Coesel ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
Re: [Openocd-development] Moving to git
On Monday 05 October 2009, Ronald Vanschoren wrote: Please keep in mind some people are using Windows here. There are quite a few folk using git from Windows... Not three hours ago I pulled a repository onto an XP machine (via cygwin). The build breakage was completely unrelated to GIT. ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
Re: [Openocd-development] Moving to git
On Monday 05 October 2009, Nico Coesel wrote: Is the entire repository (including all branches and tags) moved to SF or just head? Right now there are git-svn repositories that have whatever could be imported, but I think just the trunk is at SF. Is there anything in those branches/etc that's of more than historical interest? AFAICT only the Zylin branch has been active for the last year or more. And that can be a branch in their local repository; doesn't need to be in mainline. - Dave ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
Re: [Openocd-development] Moving to git
On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 8:45 AM, Nico Coesel ncoe...@dealogic.nl wrote: 1. Berlios svn will be made read only and the svn head will be deleted, leaving behind only a README w/reference to the openocd project at sourceforge. The entire svn history will remain available on Berlios indefinitely. Question from a dumb-ass: Is the entire repository (including all branches and tags) moved to SF or just head? Just svn trunk. All work in branches have been merged back in and the svn repository will remain available @ Berlios indefinitely for reference. The release branches are in fact just tags and we may add them back in later on, but we will probably funnel all resources into moving forward rather than rummage in the past. -- Øyvind Harboe http://www.zylin.com/zy1000.html ARM7 ARM9 ARM11 XScale Cortex JTAG debugger and flash programmer ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
Re: [Openocd-development] Moving to git
El Lunes, 5 de Octubre de 2009 22:07:35 David Brownell escribió: On Monday 05 October 2009, Øyvind Harboe wrote: In short, the following will happen: 1. The source will be held in git. https://sourceforge.net/projects/openocd/ !!! And if anyone objects to GIT, please speak up ASAP !!! Could have been sooner certainly. I had my doubts about even suggesting this proposal, but then I thought spending few minutes reading it wouldn't hurt much. I think mercurial [0] could be a good option. It's a well known distributed VCS, maybe not as spread or known as git, but it's fulfilling most if not all general users aspirations. I find it generally speaking easier to use than git and the move from those used to SVN should be less painful. There's at least a specific host site for mercurial projects [1] but there may be others. Mercurial provides an extension called convert able to translate from another VCS, among them SVN. But there's also a mercurial client for SVN repos [2], this should be the equivalent to git-svn. Pushes can be done, either by ssh or by https, which should address proxy issues. It also provides a graphical interface based on the spreaded TortoiseSVN, which is actually called TortoiseHg [3]. Since Mercurial is almost totally written in python, it's multiplatform, as well as TortoiseHg. Also google code is supposed to also accept Mercurial repositories [4] but I'm not sure about the state of this and the urgency suggests that this is not a clear path to follow. I could find out something about this if there is interest. I just wanted to drop this information, forgetting about typical flames, for the sake of completeness. Feel free to thrash it if you think it's too late of useless. Regarding the mailing list point, in case Google groups are found useful, something I'm not totally sure about, they may complete the total move to Google code once it provides general Mercurial hosting. Regards, [0] http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/ [1] http://bitbucket.org/ [2] http://bitbucket.org/durin42/hgsubversion/overview/ [3] http://bitbucket.org/tortoisehg/stable/wiki/Home [4] http://googlecode.blogspot.com/2009/04/mercurial-support-for-project- hosting.html -- Raúl Sánchez Siles Departamento de Montaje INFOGLOBAL, S. A. * C/ Virgilio, 2. Ciudad de la Imagen. 28223 Pozuelo de Alarcón (Madrid), España * T: +34 91 506 40 00 * F: +34 91 506 40 01 ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
Re: [Openocd-development] Moving to git
On 2009-10-06, Ra?l S?nchez Siles rsanch...@infoglobal.es wrote: !!! And if anyone objects to GIT, please speak up ASAP !!! I think mercurial [0] could be a good option. It's a well known distributed VCS, maybe not as spread or known as git, but it's fulfilling most if not all general users aspirations. I find it generally speaking easier to use than git and the move from those used to SVN should be less painful. This exact same discuss is taking place in a different open-source project in which I participate, and several people there have also said that they thought mercurial would be an easier transition than git. I would give a few points to mercurial for being written in Python. I would expect it to be a lot more stable than something written in C. However, my opinion shouldn't be weighted very heavily since I'm just a user when it comes to openocd. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! Are we on STRIKE yet? at visi.com ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
Re: [Openocd-development] Moving to git
-Original Message- From: openocd-development-boun...@lists.berlios.de [mailto:openocd- development-boun...@lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Grant Edwards Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 12:52 PM To: openocd-development@lists.berlios.de Subject: Re: [Openocd-development] Moving to git On 2009-10-06, Ra?l S?nchez Siles rsanch...@infoglobal.es wrote: !!! And if anyone objects to GIT, please speak up ASAP !!! I think mercurial [0] could be a good option. It's a well known distributed VCS, maybe not as spread or known as git, but it's fulfilling most if not all general users aspirations. I find it generally speaking easier to use than git and the move from those used to SVN should be less painful. This exact same discuss is taking place in a different open-source project in which I participate, and several people there have also said that they thought mercurial would be an easier transition than git. I would give a few points to mercurial for being written in Python. I would expect it to be a lot more stable than something written in C. However, my opinion shouldn't be weighted very heavily since I'm just a user when it comes to openocd. I also generally prefer python. However, Python apps are really only more stable than C apps insofar as segfaults go. I would dare say git gets much more solid testing, as it's used by the Linux kernel, where just about every new feature will be tried and beaten on. Only one unstable release, ever (so far) in the history of git, has had data consistency problems, and the warning went out on the mailing list within a few minutes. That was years ago, and hasn't happened again since. If you watch Linus' Google Tech Talk on Git, he makes several points about workflows that are only possible with the performance you get from the C-based core of git. He discusses Mercurial as interesting, but it's Python base will cause it to perform worse for many operations. See http://www.whygitisbetterthanx.com for some performance/feature comparisons including with Mercurial. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! Are we on STRIKE yet? at visi.com ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
Re: [Openocd-development] Moving to git
My impression, after using git just a little, is that it is a good tool, it takes some learning for effective use. For development work it seems that it gives me much better support for testing several different versions of experimental code than SVN so here it is a big step forward. I do not know anything about mercurial, but beeing written in Python is not enough to convince me, even though I do use and like Python. Regards, Magnus ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
Re: [Openocd-development] Moving to git
There was a suggestion for using Google groups to host the mailing list. I've had success with it in the past with projects like Symfony. As long as the mailing list isn't hosted on Yahoo groups, I won't complain (LEON3 people do this and I don't like it). OK. Google groups is one alternative. I don't know anything about it, so I'm not excited :-) Are those mailing lists? Any downsides? Why is it better than sourceforge? Doesn't google offer open source project hosting? -- Øyvind Harboe http://www.zylin.com/zy1000.html ARM7 ARM9 ARM11 XScale Cortex JTAG debugger and flash programmer ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
Re: [Openocd-development] Moving to git
On Monday 05 October 2009, Øyvind Harboe wrote: In short, the following will happen: 1. The source will be held in git. https://sourceforge.net/projects/openocd/ !!! And if anyone objects to GIT, please speak up ASAP !!! So far the only issue raised with $SUBJECT seems to be that we need to make sure we have an HTTP-accessible mirror. That seems to be nearly in hand. And the only particular issue anyone's raised with using SourceForge is that its email sucks. Which is OK, since we don't need to use their email. But as I'm sure folk have noted, there's also a move from Berlios to more reliable services subtext. Using what SourceForge provides has sort of a leg up in that race... 2. Zach, David and I are managers for the OpenOCD project at sourceforge. Actually project administrators. 3. There is already a mailing list set up for OpenOCD at sourceforge Which IMO we should *NOT* be using at all. (Let me suggest that someone create a new thread specifically about mailing list alternatives and what we want improved... no point in $SUBJECT going further astray.) 4. The top web pages will be very slightly reworked so that web pages are in fact kept under git and generated by doxygen, phasing out wordpress. And eventually moved to SourceForge. ** 5. The 0.3.0 release downloads will be available at SourceForge. Schedule: Thursday October 8. 2009 08:00 EST: 1. Berlios svn will be made read only and the svn head will be deleted, leaving behind only a README w/reference to the openocd project at sourceforge. The entire svn history will remain available on Berlios indefinitely. And I've got a patch in the works updating the source tree to reference GIT not SVN. I'll commit it around then. 2. The Berlios web page will be changed into a stub pointing to sourceforge. I was not anticipating this happening so soon. It's not at all related to the GIT move, for example. Note that I'm not at all opposed to moving or changing the website. It's just that it's a different issue entirely, and should not be tied to the GIT switchover for the repository. 3. the mailing list will be disabled and all openocd subscribers will receive an invitation to subscribe to the openocd mailing list at sourceforge. The sourceforge mailing list is the least sucky alternative for hosting mailinglists at this point. As noted previously ... I'm not in favor of that at all. ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
Re: [Openocd-development] Moving to git
So the only thing we need to agree on *now* is to move git to sourceforge. No dissent heard so far on that one. I also believe there is a consensus that Berlios does not have the qualities we're looking for and that we need to either move away now or get a plan in place asap for migrating away. We obviously need more time to discuss how to deal with the web and even more so on what to do with the mailing lists. I'll be breaking out a separate thread for the mailing list problem. -- Øyvind Harboe http://www.zylin.com/zy1000.html ARM7 ARM9 ARM11 XScale Cortex JTAG debugger and flash programmer ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
Re: [Openocd-development] Moving to git
Since many people seem to not be fond of sourceforge, have you considered GitHub? Just put a README.markdown in the project and it will become a nice webpage front for the project. They already provide source browsing and snapshots available via HTTP, and make it trivially easy for anyone to (a) fork the project and (b) make changes in forks available to the original project. Plus, we could always use their Wiki for a project page. - Alex -Original Message- From: openocd-development-boun...@lists.berlios.de [mailto:openocd-development-boun...@lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Øyvind Harboe Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 12:57 PM To: openocd-development@lists.berlios.de Subject: [Openocd-development] Moving to git Zach, David and I as maintainers constitute the committee to move OpenOCD to sourceforge and make some choices about how things will be moved on behalf of the community. We want input from the community, but we also need a bit of leadership to execute the steps. In short, the following will happen: 1. The source will be held in git. https://sourceforge.net/projects/openocd/ 2. Zach, David and I are managers for the OpenOCD project at sourceforge. 3. There is already a mailing list set up for OpenOCD at sourceforge 4. The top web pages will be very slightly reworked so that web pages are in fact kept under git and generated by doxygen, phasing out wordpress. Schedule: Thursday October 8. 2009 08:00 EST: 1. Berlios svn will be made read only and the svn head will be deleted, leaving behind only a README w/reference to the openocd project at sourceforge. The entire svn history will remain available on Berlios indefinitely. 2. The Berlios web page will be changed into a stub pointing to sourceforge. 3. the mailing list will be disabled and all openocd subscribers will receive an invitation to subscribe to the openocd mailing list at sourceforge. The sourceforge mailing list is the least sucky alternative for hosting mailinglists at this point. -- Øyvind Harboe http://www.zylin.com/zy1000.html ARM7 ARM9 ARM11 XScale Cortex JTAG debugger and flash programmer ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
Re: [Openocd-development] Moving to git
Le 05/10/2009 17:19, Øyvind Harboe a écrit : So the only thing we need to agree on *now* is to move git to sourceforge. I am supportive of the move to sourceforge. No dissent heard so far on that one. I also believe there is a consensus that Berlios does not have the qualities we're looking for and that we need to either move away now or get a plan in place asap for migrating away. We obviously need more time to discuss how to deal with the web and even more so on what to do with the mailing lists. I'll be breaking out a separate thread for the mailing list problem. Google would be a good alternative to sourceforge Michel -- Tired of Microsoft's rebootive multitasking? then it's time to upgrade to Linux. http://home.comcast.net/~mcatudal ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
Re: [Openocd-development] Moving to git
On Monday 05 October 2009, Austin, Alex wrote: Since many people seem to not be fond of sourceforge, AFAIK that's just the email. Which has issues like crappy archives, bad spam filtering, ads, and such. have you considered GitHub? In terms of GIT support is it significantly better than SourceForge? Just put a README.markdown in the project and it will become a nice webpage front for the project. We need a bit more than that from the web face. Current notions include making the website give better access to the project docs: the User's Guide, and the doxygen Developer's Guide output. They already provide source browsing and snapshots available via HTTP, Everyone seems to run gitweb, so that's not going to be a compelling advantage to any service. and make it trivially easy for anyone to (a) fork the project Already easy, courtesy of GIT. :) and (b) make changes in forks available to the original project. Plus, we could always use their Wiki for a project page. We'd need someone to volunteer to manage and evolve a Wiki. And some folk don't like them. That particular change merits a separate discussion. Note that SourceForge supports wiki stuff too. - Dave ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
Re: [Openocd-development] Moving to git
On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 2:36 AM, Dirk Behme dirk.be...@googlemail.com wrote: 3. the mailing list will be disabled and all openocd subscribers will receive an invitation to subscribe to the openocd mailing list at sourceforge. The sourceforge mailing list is the least sucky alternative for hosting mailinglists at this point. It is my understanding that there are at least two votes for not switching to sourceforge mailing list. Sourceforge mailing list is quite bad, one of the worst mailing list server. Last time linux-usb-users and linux-usb-devel were hosted in Sourceforge and they were plagued by spam, very embarrassing actually. Later they switched to vger.kernel.org. -- Xiaofan http://mcuee.blogspot.com ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
Re: [Openocd-development] Moving to git
And in case anyone wants suggestions about how to start learning ... http://git-scm.com/course/svn.html That's addressed to folk more familiar with SVN than GIT. - Dave ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
Re: [Openocd-development] Moving to git
On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 7:37 AM, David Brownell davi...@pacbell.net wrote: On Monday 05 October 2009, Austin, Alex wrote: Since many people seem to not be fond of sourceforge, AFAIK that's just the email. Which has issues like crappy archives, bad spam filtering, ads, and such. have you considered GitHub? In terms of GIT support is it significantly better than SourceForge? I hear that it is better. Greg KH is using it for libusb mirror, usbutils and usbview. http://github.com/gregkh/ libusb and usbutils were previously using Sourceforge. Now libusb moved to its own server (libusb.org). Note that SourceForge supports wiki stuff too. SourceForge discontibued the old Wiki sometimes ago and changed to new Wiki interface. SourceForge is also often went inaccessible. But I do not know if there are better alternative for website hosting. -- Xiaofan http://mcuee.blogspot.com ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
Re: [Openocd-development] Moving to git
-Original Message- From: David Brownell [mailto:davi...@pacbell.net] Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 6:37 PM To: openocd-development@lists.berlios.de Cc: Austin, Alex Subject: Re: [Openocd-development] Moving to git On Monday 05 October 2009, Austin, Alex wrote: Since many people seem to not be fond of sourceforge, AFAIK that's just the email. Which has issues like crappy archives, bad spam filtering, ads, and such. have you considered GitHub? In terms of GIT support is it significantly better than SourceForge? Haven't used git on sourceforge, but it wouldn't surprise me. Just put a README.markdown in the project and it will become a nice webpage front for the project. We need a bit more than that from the web face. Current notions include making the website give better access to the project docs: the User's Guide, and the doxygen Developer's Guide output. http://www.github.com/blog/272-github-pages Put your entire website in a branch on the git repo. That can Include doxygen-generated stuff if need be. They already provide source browsing and snapshots available via HTTP, Everyone seems to run gitweb, so that's not going to be a compelling advantage to any service. I use gitweb too. Compared to github's interface, it's a mere toy. and make it trivially easy for anyone to (a) fork the project Already easy, courtesy of GIT. :) GitHub takes it much further, in that it would be easy for anyone Looking at OpenOCD to find all the forks of it on GitHub, and even see where the history split off. and (b) make changes in forks available to the original project. Plus, we could always use their Wiki for a project page. We'd need someone to volunteer to manage and evolve a Wiki. And some folk don't like them. That particular change merits a separate discussion. Note that SourceForge supports wiki stuff too. - Dave ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
Re: [Openocd-development] Moving to git
W.r.t. the choice of sourceforge for git: - we already have it running and tested there - there is no obviously superior alternative. If we switch every time we find something that is 10% better, we'll never get stability and a decision in place. Does anyone know a git hosting alternative that is that much better than sourceforge that we *must* consider switching? If someone gave me static web pages, kick-ass mailing lists, git better than http://repo.or.cz/ and an excellent service record all in one site, I would be excited. -- Øyvind Harboe http://www.zylin.com/zy1000.html ARM7 ARM9 ARM11 XScale Cortex JTAG debugger and flash programmer ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
