Re: [Opensim-dev] Preparing for OpenSimulator 0.8

2014-04-02 Thread Jim Williams
Hi Justin,

The fact that your message is a plea rather than an announcement makes it
rather clear why I felt I had to leave OSG and move my sim to Metro.  It
also explains to me why I felt I had to add myself to this list at the same
time -- self protection.

If your release cycle is 4 months shouldn't there be a hard and fast
feature freeze at the end of the first month?  And there should be no
back-talk or exceptions.  Bug fixes ought to be just about 3/4 of the
effort anyway.  What OpenSim needs is credibility as a stable working
system, not more features.

If it''s a choice between what is going on now and having no development on
OpenSim, I think I'd rather see no development.  I have no way of stopping
the badness from happening at my end other than complaining about it.



On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 9:41 PM, Justin Clark-Casey jjusti...@googlemail.com
 wrote:

 Hi folks.  For the past 3 years, we've had a significant OpenSimulator
 release at about 4 to 8 month intervals.

 As the last major release (0.7.6) was in September 2013, we are due for
 another, and this seems like a reasonable point.  From my perspective,
 releases drive a very significant level of OpenSimulator adoption.  It's
 also the case that I may have a limited window of time to act as release
 manager, after which things may get very busy for me for an extended period.

 There was some disagreement over how the last release was handled,
 particularly over the period when I asked that developers take care to
 leave master stable.  However, it's quite hard for me to see how this could
 be done in another way without significantly more manpower.  Even when the
 release is branched, if the release branch and master diverge significantly
 (or master is broken) then a lot of the testing done by users is lost -
 very few people actually pick up and test release candidates.

 So unless there is disagreement, I'm going to ask that people take care to
 keep master stable until the end of April or release, whichever occurs
 first.  This certainly does not mean a halt to development on master, it's
 just a request that people take a common sense approach to holding off from
 putting in destabilising or very complicated changes for a while, unless
 these are to fix significant bugs or regressions.

 I'm very happy to hear alternatives, though I would also need people to
 help if they involve more work.  In any case, Robert has very kindly
 volunteered to look at some of the current regressions but more help is
 always very welcome.

 The current regressions or very major bugs have a 0.8 target in Mantis.
  As with every release so far, only major regressions are guaranteed to
 receive some sort of attention, where the answer may still be WONTFIX for
 this release.

 Regards,

 --
 Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
 OSVW Consulting
 http://justincc.org
 http://twitter.com/justincc
 ___
 Opensim-dev mailing list
 Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
 https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev




-- 
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Preparing for OpenSimulator 0.8

2014-04-02 Thread Michael Emory Cerquoni
Jim,

   You are way off topic here, this has nothing to do with OSG or Metro
grids, I don't know why you suddenly feel the need to criticize everyone
and everything announced here, but it has finally gotten to the point where
I feel I need to step in and say something about this, your comments of
late seem unproductive and volatile as if you are just trying to start
arguments, please keep the drama out of these communications, Justin is
simply trying to keep things moving forward in a productive manner and all
I see from you lately is negativity and nothing that lends to any kind of
improvement, this is a developer channel, if you want to lend to
development than do something productive other than criticize, start
submitting patches or get directly involved in debugging and filing bug
reports or something, but please take the drama else where it is no
appreciated.


On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 10:07 AM, Jim Williams sphere1...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Justin,

 The fact that your message is a plea rather than an announcement makes it
 rather clear why I felt I had to leave OSG and move my sim to Metro.  It
 also explains to me why I felt I had to add myself to this list at the same
 time -- self protection.

 If your release cycle is 4 months shouldn't there be a hard and fast
 feature freeze at the end of the first month?  And there should be no
 back-talk or exceptions.  Bug fixes ought to be just about 3/4 of the
 effort anyway.  What OpenSim needs is credibility as a stable working
 system, not more features.

 If it''s a choice between what is going on now and having no development
 on OpenSim, I think I'd rather see no development.  I have no way of
 stopping the badness from happening at my end other than complaining about
 it.



 On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 9:41 PM, Justin Clark-Casey 
 jjusti...@googlemail.com wrote:

 Hi folks.  For the past 3 years, we've had a significant OpenSimulator
 release at about 4 to 8 month intervals.

 As the last major release (0.7.6) was in September 2013, we are due for
 another, and this seems like a reasonable point.  From my perspective,
 releases drive a very significant level of OpenSimulator adoption.  It's
 also the case that I may have a limited window of time to act as release
 manager, after which things may get very busy for me for an extended period.

 There was some disagreement over how the last release was handled,
 particularly over the period when I asked that developers take care to
 leave master stable.  However, it's quite hard for me to see how this could
 be done in another way without significantly more manpower.  Even when the
 release is branched, if the release branch and master diverge significantly
 (or master is broken) then a lot of the testing done by users is lost -
 very few people actually pick up and test release candidates.

 So unless there is disagreement, I'm going to ask that people take care
 to keep master stable until the end of April or release, whichever occurs
 first.  This certainly does not mean a halt to development on master, it's
 just a request that people take a common sense approach to holding off from
 putting in destabilising or very complicated changes for a while, unless
 these are to fix significant bugs or regressions.

 I'm very happy to hear alternatives, though I would also need people to
 help if they involve more work.  In any case, Robert has very kindly
 volunteered to look at some of the current regressions but more help is
 always very welcome.

 The current regressions or very major bugs have a 0.8 target in Mantis.
  As with every release so far, only major regressions are guaranteed to
 receive some sort of attention, where the answer may still be WONTFIX for
 this release.

 Regards,

 --
 Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
 OSVW Consulting
 http://justincc.org
 http://twitter.com/justincc
 ___
 Opensim-dev mailing list
 Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
 https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev




 --
 No essence.  No permanence.  No perfection.  Only action.

 ___
 Opensim-dev mailing list
 Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
 https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev




-- 
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Preparing for OpenSimulator 0.8

2014-04-02 Thread Michael Emory Cerquoni
Well if you are wondering why no one takes you seriously its because of
stuff like the last line of your email, good luck with that!


On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 10:39 AM, Jim Williams sphere1...@gmail.com wrote:

 The basic problem is that their development will effect me as a user.

 I have no complaints about what Justin is trying to do.  My complaint is
 how he has to word what he is doing, and I think it is because there is
 something wrong with the organization of this development project.  Having
 looked at that organization, I'd say that the basic problem is that it is
 oriented about what potential developers might want to do rather than about
 what users might want.  It's an organization I would want nothing to do
 with even if I wanted to work upon OpenSim rather than within it.

 Not only do I not want to do development, I want to use the system which
 was developed.  The only reason I joined this list is because I think that
 the development currently happening is a threat to my continued enjoyment
 of the product.  The difference between me and most end users is that I'm a
 retired programmer -- I know how these things go.

 So, you may drop dead for all I care.  You are not helping to protect my
 environment.



 On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 10:22 AM, Michael Emory Cerquoni 
 nebadon2...@gmail.com wrote:

 Jim,

You are way off topic here, this has nothing to do with OSG or Metro
 grids, I don't know why you suddenly feel the need to criticize everyone
 and everything announced here, but it has finally gotten to the point where
 I feel I need to step in and say something about this, your comments of
 late seem unproductive and volatile as if you are just trying to start
 arguments, please keep the drama out of these communications, Justin is
 simply trying to keep things moving forward in a productive manner and all
 I see from you lately is negativity and nothing that lends to any kind of
 improvement, this is a developer channel, if you want to lend to
 development than do something productive other than criticize, start
 submitting patches or get directly involved in debugging and filing bug
 reports or something, but please take the drama else where it is no
 appreciated.


 On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 10:07 AM, Jim Williams sphere1...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hi Justin,

 The fact that your message is a plea rather than an announcement makes
 it rather clear why I felt I had to leave OSG and move my sim to Metro.  It
 also explains to me why I felt I had to add myself to this list at the same
 time -- self protection.

 If your release cycle is 4 months shouldn't there be a hard and fast
 feature freeze at the end of the first month?  And there should be no
 back-talk or exceptions.  Bug fixes ought to be just about 3/4 of the
 effort anyway.  What OpenSim needs is credibility as a stable working
 system, not more features.

 If it''s a choice between what is going on now and having no development
 on OpenSim, I think I'd rather see no development.  I have no way of
 stopping the badness from happening at my end other than complaining about
 it.



 On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 9:41 PM, Justin Clark-Casey 
 jjusti...@googlemail.com wrote:

 Hi folks.  For the past 3 years, we've had a significant OpenSimulator
 release at about 4 to 8 month intervals.

 As the last major release (0.7.6) was in September 2013, we are due for
 another, and this seems like a reasonable point.  From my perspective,
 releases drive a very significant level of OpenSimulator adoption.  It's
 also the case that I may have a limited window of time to act as release
 manager, after which things may get very busy for me for an extended 
 period.

 There was some disagreement over how the last release was handled,
 particularly over the period when I asked that developers take care to
 leave master stable.  However, it's quite hard for me to see how this could
 be done in another way without significantly more manpower.  Even when the
 release is branched, if the release branch and master diverge significantly
 (or master is broken) then a lot of the testing done by users is lost -
 very few people actually pick up and test release candidates.

 So unless there is disagreement, I'm going to ask that people take care
 to keep master stable until the end of April or release, whichever occurs
 first.  This certainly does not mean a halt to development on master, it's
 just a request that people take a common sense approach to holding off from
 putting in destabilising or very complicated changes for a while, unless
 these are to fix significant bugs or regressions.

 I'm very happy to hear alternatives, though I would also need people to
 help if they involve more work.  In any case, Robert has very kindly
 volunteered to look at some of the current regressions but more help is
 always very welcome.

 The current regressions or very major bugs have a 0.8 target in Mantis.
  As with every release so far, only major regressions are guaranteed 

Re: [Opensim-dev] Preparing for OpenSimulator 0.8

2014-04-02 Thread Jim Williams
The basic problem is that their development will effect me as a user.

I have no complaints about what Justin is trying to do.  My complaint is
how he has to word what he is doing, and I think it is because there is
something wrong with the organization of this development project.  Having
looked at that organization, I'd say that the basic problem is that it is
oriented about what potential developers might want to do rather than about
what users might want.  It's an organization I would want nothing to do
with even if I wanted to work upon OpenSim rather than within it.

Not only do I not want to do development, I want to use the system which
was developed.  The only reason I joined this list is because I think that
the development currently happening is a threat to my continued enjoyment
of the product.  The difference between me and most end users is that I'm a
retired programmer -- I know how these things go.

So, you may drop dead for all I care.  You are not helping to protect my
environment.



On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 10:22 AM, Michael Emory Cerquoni 
nebadon2...@gmail.com wrote:

 Jim,

You are way off topic here, this has nothing to do with OSG or Metro
 grids, I don't know why you suddenly feel the need to criticize everyone
 and everything announced here, but it has finally gotten to the point where
 I feel I need to step in and say something about this, your comments of
 late seem unproductive and volatile as if you are just trying to start
 arguments, please keep the drama out of these communications, Justin is
 simply trying to keep things moving forward in a productive manner and all
 I see from you lately is negativity and nothing that lends to any kind of
 improvement, this is a developer channel, if you want to lend to
 development than do something productive other than criticize, start
 submitting patches or get directly involved in debugging and filing bug
 reports or something, but please take the drama else where it is no
 appreciated.


 On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 10:07 AM, Jim Williams sphere1...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hi Justin,

 The fact that your message is a plea rather than an announcement makes it
 rather clear why I felt I had to leave OSG and move my sim to Metro.  It
 also explains to me why I felt I had to add myself to this list at the same
 time -- self protection.

 If your release cycle is 4 months shouldn't there be a hard and fast
 feature freeze at the end of the first month?  And there should be no
 back-talk or exceptions.  Bug fixes ought to be just about 3/4 of the
 effort anyway.  What OpenSim needs is credibility as a stable working
 system, not more features.

 If it''s a choice between what is going on now and having no development
 on OpenSim, I think I'd rather see no development.  I have no way of
 stopping the badness from happening at my end other than complaining about
 it.



 On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 9:41 PM, Justin Clark-Casey 
 jjusti...@googlemail.com wrote:

 Hi folks.  For the past 3 years, we've had a significant OpenSimulator
 release at about 4 to 8 month intervals.

 As the last major release (0.7.6) was in September 2013, we are due for
 another, and this seems like a reasonable point.  From my perspective,
 releases drive a very significant level of OpenSimulator adoption.  It's
 also the case that I may have a limited window of time to act as release
 manager, after which things may get very busy for me for an extended period.

 There was some disagreement over how the last release was handled,
 particularly over the period when I asked that developers take care to
 leave master stable.  However, it's quite hard for me to see how this could
 be done in another way without significantly more manpower.  Even when the
 release is branched, if the release branch and master diverge significantly
 (or master is broken) then a lot of the testing done by users is lost -
 very few people actually pick up and test release candidates.

 So unless there is disagreement, I'm going to ask that people take care
 to keep master stable until the end of April or release, whichever occurs
 first.  This certainly does not mean a halt to development on master, it's
 just a request that people take a common sense approach to holding off from
 putting in destabilising or very complicated changes for a while, unless
 these are to fix significant bugs or regressions.

 I'm very happy to hear alternatives, though I would also need people to
 help if they involve more work.  In any case, Robert has very kindly
 volunteered to look at some of the current regressions but more help is
 always very welcome.

 The current regressions or very major bugs have a 0.8 target in Mantis.
  As with every release so far, only major regressions are guaranteed to
 receive some sort of attention, where the answer may still be WONTFIX for
 this release.

 Regards,

 --
 Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
 OSVW Consulting
 http://justincc.org
 http://twitter.com/justincc
 

Re: [Opensim-dev] Preparing for OpenSimulator 0.8

2014-04-02 Thread Ai Austin



From: Jim Williams sphere1...@gmail.com
Not only do I not want to do development, I want to use the system 
which was developed.  ... So, you may drop dead for all I care.  You 
are not helping to protect my environment.


Whoooaaa Jim... take it easy... that's way out of order in an open 
source contributed effort community.. and really not nice on a list 
for the developers who put their time and effort in to give us all 
software we can enjoy and use.


I for one will be very pleased to see the stable release of 0.8.0 
which testing is showing is very stable and up-to-date running on our 
own grid, on add-on regions on OSGrid and doing hypergrid jumps to a 
range of other grids.  I am very glad that Justin one again is 
willing to take on the release preparation on behalf of all of us in 
the community.. developers, testers, documenters, wiki and blog 
writers, and users.


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Re: [Opensim-dev] Preparing for OpenSimulator 0.8

2014-04-02 Thread Robert Martin
from my POV i would think that a Freeze For Release would be a good
idea since a constant MUST DO NEW FEATURE thing is what prevents
having a good release.

One thing that would be nice as a sidebar would be for there to be a
single shell exe that starts the webserver then starts the sim and
gives an all clear when the sim is ready (of course having a good
working web control panel would be good).

On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 12:34 PM, Ai Austin ai.ai.aus...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: Jim Williams sphere1...@gmail.com
 Not only do I not want to do development, I want to use the system which
 was developed.  ... So, you may drop dead for all I care.  You are not
 helping to protect my environment.


 Whoooaaa Jim... take it easy... that's way out of order in an open source
 contributed effort community.. and really not nice on a list for the
 developers who put their time and effort in to give us all software we can
 enjoy and use.

 I for one will be very pleased to see the stable release of 0.8.0 which
 testing is showing is very stable and up-to-date running on our own grid, on
 add-on regions on OSGrid and doing hypergrid jumps to a range of other
 grids.  I am very glad that Justin one again is willing to take on the
 release preparation on behalf of all of us in the community.. developers,
 testers, documenters, wiki and blog writers, and users.


 ___
 Opensim-dev mailing list
 Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
 https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev



-- 
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Preparing for OpenSimulator 0.8

2014-04-02 Thread Fly Man
I think sometimes it matters that there's a stable release schedule, Sept
2013 is far in the past and there has been a lot of changes in Opensim
since then.

Strangely enough there haven't been in between releases or something like
that. At this moment I think a lot of grid owners are sweating as a new
release might blow their support channels as the users will want to new
features asap.

My advice: Do a in between release so people can see the changes and use
the 0.8 release as the large release for a lot of features that people have
been wanting. Use the in between to see if there's any large issues
arising.


2014-04-02 19:17 GMT+02:00 Robert Martin robertl...@gmail.com:

 from my POV i would think that a Freeze For Release would be a good
 idea since a constant MUST DO NEW FEATURE thing is what prevents
 having a good release.

 One thing that would be nice as a sidebar would be for there to be a
 single shell exe that starts the webserver then starts the sim and
 gives an all clear when the sim is ready (of course having a good
 working web control panel would be good).

 On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 12:34 PM, Ai Austin ai.ai.aus...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  From: Jim Williams sphere1...@gmail.com
  Not only do I not want to do development, I want to use the system which
  was developed.  ... So, you may drop dead for all I care.  You are not
  helping to protect my environment.
 
 
  Whoooaaa Jim... take it easy... that's way out of order in an open source
  contributed effort community.. and really not nice on a list for the
  developers who put their time and effort in to give us all software we
 can
  enjoy and use.
 
  I for one will be very pleased to see the stable release of 0.8.0 which
  testing is showing is very stable and up-to-date running on our own
 grid, on
  add-on regions on OSGrid and doing hypergrid jumps to a range of other
  grids.  I am very glad that Justin one again is willing to take on the
  release preparation on behalf of all of us in the community.. developers,
  testers, documenters, wiki and blog writers, and users.
 
 
  ___
  Opensim-dev mailing list
  Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
  https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev



 --
 Robert L Martin
 ___
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Preparing for OpenSimulator 0.8

2014-04-02 Thread Michael Emory Cerquoni
OSgrid does releases very often and we do not modify the code in anyway all
we do is add the osprofile and ossearch dlls to our release, anyone wanting
to test newer releases could always use an OSgrid release and report bugs
this way, we even provide zips of the source that come directly from
http://opensimulator.org/viewgit, just need to replace our ini's with your
own ini files and you are running the same code that we would push out into
an official release basically. http://www.osgrid.org/index.php/downloads


On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 6:00 PM, Fly Man fly.man.open...@gmail.com wrote:

 I think sometimes it matters that there's a stable release schedule, Sept
 2013 is far in the past and there has been a lot of changes in Opensim
 since then.

 Strangely enough there haven't been in between releases or something
 like that. At this moment I think a lot of grid owners are sweating as a
 new release might blow their support channels as the users will want to new
 features asap.

 My advice: Do a in between release so people can see the changes and use
 the 0.8 release as the large release for a lot of features that people have
 been wanting. Use the in between to see if there's any large issues
 arising.


 2014-04-02 19:17 GMT+02:00 Robert Martin robertl...@gmail.com:

 from my POV i would think that a Freeze For Release would be a good
 idea since a constant MUST DO NEW FEATURE thing is what prevents
 having a good release.

 One thing that would be nice as a sidebar would be for there to be a
 single shell exe that starts the webserver then starts the sim and
 gives an all clear when the sim is ready (of course having a good
 working web control panel would be good).

 On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 12:34 PM, Ai Austin ai.ai.aus...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  From: Jim Williams sphere1...@gmail.com
  Not only do I not want to do development, I want to use the system
 which
  was developed.  ... So, you may drop dead for all I care.  You are not
  helping to protect my environment.
 
 
  Whoooaaa Jim... take it easy... that's way out of order in an open
 source
  contributed effort community.. and really not nice on a list for the
  developers who put their time and effort in to give us all software we
 can
  enjoy and use.
 
  I for one will be very pleased to see the stable release of 0.8.0 which
  testing is showing is very stable and up-to-date running on our own
 grid, on
  add-on regions on OSGrid and doing hypergrid jumps to a range of other
  grids.  I am very glad that Justin one again is willing to take on the
  release preparation on behalf of all of us in the community..
 developers,
  testers, documenters, wiki and blog writers, and users.
 
 
  ___
  Opensim-dev mailing list
  Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
  https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev



 --
 Robert L Martin
 ___
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 https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev



 ___
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Preparing for OpenSimulator 0.8

2014-04-02 Thread Justin Clark-Casey
Yes, that would be one alternative.  But to emphasise, I'm only asking for a common-sense approach to avoid 
destabilising master right now, not a blanket ban on commits or anything like that.


On 02/04/14 02:45, Michael Emory Cerquoni wrote:

+1 no disagreement here! anyone who wants to get crazy can do so in a new 
branch for now?

On Apr 1, 2014 9:42 PM, Justin Clark-Casey jjusti...@googlemail.com 
mailto:jjusti...@googlemail.com wrote:

Hi folks.  For the past 3 years, we've had a significant OpenSimulator 
release at about 4 to 8 month intervals.

As the last major release (0.7.6) was in September 2013, we are due for 
another, and this seems like a reasonable
point.  From my perspective, releases drive a very significant level of 
OpenSimulator adoption.  It's also the case
that I may have a limited window of time to act as release manager, after 
which things may get very busy for me for
an extended period.

There was some disagreement over how the last release was handled, 
particularly over the period when I asked that
developers take care to leave master stable.  However, it's quite hard for 
me to see how this could be done in
another way without significantly more manpower.  Even when the release is 
branched, if the release branch and
master diverge significantly (or master is broken) then a lot of the 
testing done by users is lost - very few people
actually pick up and test release candidates.

So unless there is disagreement, I'm going to ask that people take care to 
keep master stable until the end of April
or release, whichever occurs first.  This certainly does not mean a halt to 
development on master, it's just a
request that people take a common sense approach to holding off from 
putting in destabilising or very complicated
changes for a while, unless these are to fix significant bugs or 
regressions.

I'm very happy to hear alternatives, though I would also need people to 
help if they involve more work.  In any
case, Robert has very kindly volunteered to look at some of the current 
regressions but more help is always very
welcome.

The current regressions or very major bugs have a 0.8 target in Mantis.  As 
with every release so far, only major
regressions are guaranteed to receive some sort of attention, where the 
answer may still be WONTFIX for this release.

Regards,

--
Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
OSVW Consulting
http://justincc.org
http://twitter.com/justincc
_
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Preparing for OpenSimulator 0.8

2014-04-01 Thread Michael Emory Cerquoni
+1 no disagreement here! anyone who wants to get crazy can do so in a new
branch for now?
On Apr 1, 2014 9:42 PM, Justin Clark-Casey jjusti...@googlemail.com
wrote:

 Hi folks.  For the past 3 years, we've had a significant OpenSimulator
 release at about 4 to 8 month intervals.

 As the last major release (0.7.6) was in September 2013, we are due for
 another, and this seems like a reasonable point.  From my perspective,
 releases drive a very significant level of OpenSimulator adoption.  It's
 also the case that I may have a limited window of time to act as release
 manager, after which things may get very busy for me for an extended period.

 There was some disagreement over how the last release was handled,
 particularly over the period when I asked that developers take care to
 leave master stable.  However, it's quite hard for me to see how this could
 be done in another way without significantly more manpower.  Even when the
 release is branched, if the release branch and master diverge significantly
 (or master is broken) then a lot of the testing done by users is lost -
 very few people actually pick up and test release candidates.

 So unless there is disagreement, I'm going to ask that people take care to
 keep master stable until the end of April or release, whichever occurs
 first.  This certainly does not mean a halt to development on master, it's
 just a request that people take a common sense approach to holding off from
 putting in destabilising or very complicated changes for a while, unless
 these are to fix significant bugs or regressions.

 I'm very happy to hear alternatives, though I would also need people to
 help if they involve more work.  In any case, Robert has very kindly
 volunteered to look at some of the current regressions but more help is
 always very welcome.

 The current regressions or very major bugs have a 0.8 target in Mantis.
  As with every release so far, only major regressions are guaranteed to
 receive some sort of attention, where the answer may still be WONTFIX for
 this release.

 Regards,

 --
 Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
 OSVW Consulting
 http://justincc.org
 http://twitter.com/justincc
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