Re: [Openstack] How to deploy OpenStack on thousands of nodes?

2013-06-26 Thread Tim Bell
I'd suggest to have a look at the openstack Operations Guide which contains information on scaling approaches (http://docs.openstack.org/ops/) In particular, the use of cells is a good way to build large scale infrastructures (see

Re: [Openstack] Trove implementation in Openstack with Red Hat 6

2013-06-14 Thread Tim Bell
Michael, It is desirable that a project, such as Trove, in incubation would be able to install and run on Redhat derived systems as well as Ubuntu/Debian. With the combination of packstack/RDO, RedHat based deployment is becoming a lot easier and I would hope that this is considered to

Re: [Openstack] [ceilometer] support for older versions of ceilometer

2013-05-30 Thread Tim Bell
Doug, Can you advise on what the plan/policy will be for Havana ? - Will I be able to run Havana core components such as Nova with Grizzly ceilometer ? - Will I be able to run Havana ceilometer with Grizzly core components (with reduced functionality compared to the

Re: [Openstack] [ceilometer] support for older versions of ceilometer

2013-05-30 Thread Tim Bell
a key component of production, large scale clouds. Tim From: Doug Hellmann [mailto:doug.hellm...@dreamhost.com] Sent: 30 May 2013 22:35 To: Tim Bell Cc: openstack@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Openstack] [ceilometer] support for older versions of ceilometer From what I understand

[Openstack] Dual network connections on hypervisor

2013-05-28 Thread Tim Bell
I have a hypervisor running KVM with two network interfaces to two independent networks. I could not find any documentation on how to configure a set up such as this so the guests could also be configured with IPs on the two networks. Any pointers ? Tim smime.p7s

Re: [Openstack] Share Glance between cells or regions

2013-05-15 Thread Tim Bell
+2 I feel there is a difference between - Is it possible ? - Is it a good approach for use case X ? Multi-site varies hugely depending on whether the aim is sharing the work or recovery scenarios. Defining a good model for multi-site, resilient deployments

[Openstack] Checkpoint VM and roll back

2013-04-25 Thread Tim Bell
I'd like to be able to 1. checkpoint a running virtual machine 2. run a test 3. rollback to the checkpoint from step 1 Has anyone had experience of doing this using OpenStack (such as with snapshots) ? Tim smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

Re: [Openstack] List of Cinder compatible devices

2013-04-16 Thread Tim Bell
a driver from the list in the event of failing to keep up with additional functionality (but this is a different question to the documentation). Tim From: Blair Bethwaite [mailto:blair.bethwa...@gmail.com] Sent: 16 April 2013 04:51 To: John Griffith; Tim Bell Cc: openstack

Re: [Openstack] Project quotas on multi-region

2013-03-24 Thread Tim Bell
The Boson project was looking at this sort of problem (https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Boson). There is a session at the summit to review this and other activities since it appears quotas are appearing in many projects and there is a clear need for multi-cell and quota delegation (i.e.

[Openstack] Name restrictions and other checks

2013-03-18 Thread Tim Bell
We have some additional checks on the names of instances such as - Maximum length (to be compatible with Active Directory) - Restrict characters which are usable Is there a configurable set of parameters for these checks (or a user exit to define a functional check) ?

[Openstack] Unauthenticated service probe for OpenStack components

2013-03-14 Thread Tim Bell
Is there a method to do a basic service status check for OpenStack components ? I'd like to able to validate that the daemons are able to handle an unauthenticated request from a monitoring script. This is somewhat equivalent to a network level ping or nagios probe, i.e. validate that there

[Openstack] List of Cinder compatible devices

2013-01-30 Thread Tim Bell
Is there a list of devices which are currently compatible with cinder and their relative functionality ? Looking through the source code, there are EMC, IBM, NetApp, Nexenta but it is not clear which models are supported or if there are other products also. A functionality matrix (like

Re: [Openstack] Name

2013-01-24 Thread Tim Bell
There is also Robin Hood (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_hood) … “steal from the rich and give to the poor”… Personally, Havana got my vote…. Tim From: openstack-bounces+tim.bell=cern...@lists.launchpad.net [mailto:openstack-bounces+tim.bell=cern...@lists.launchpad.net] On

Re: [Openstack] Windows instance licensing in OpenStack

2013-01-23 Thread Tim Bell
Sounds like activation key management would be a great feature for the Windows cloud-init so this could be passed in as meta data. Tim From: openstack-bounces+tim.bell=cern...@lists.launchpad.net [mailto:openstack-bounces+tim.bell=cern...@lists.launchpad.net] On Behalf Of Balamurugan V

Re: [Openstack] using Win AD authentication as keystone backend

2013-01-21 Thread Tim Bell
We run Active Directory with Keystone at CERN. The configuration is documented by Jose in the Wiki at http://wiki.openstack.org/HowtoIntegrateKeystonewithAD. Not sure if all the patches made it into Folsom though. Tim From: openstack-bounces+tim.bell=cern...@lists.launchpad.net

Re: [Openstack] user committee points to review

2013-01-16 Thread Tim Bell
A few of you have had trouble reading the document. The updated link is at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yD8TfqUik2dt5xo_jMVHMl7tw9oIJnEndLK8YqET oyo/edit If you can't read it, please send me a note and I'll share it. Tim From: Tim Bell Sent: 09 January 2013 09:52 To: 'Sean

Re: [Openstack] Migrate Instance to another Tenant ID in the same environment

2013-01-10 Thread Tim Bell
Updating the DB for the project would be one step but there are other potential things to consider such as attached volumes. Building up the set of things that need to be done in the doc would be useful but eventually we need to get to an openstack command that can do this (or do the equivalent

Re: [Openstack] Calling all user group and meetup organizers

2013-01-09 Thread Tim Bell
Sean, Is the aim to provide co-ordination for the OpenStack user groups worldwide ? Ryan, JC and I have been putting together the structure for the OpenStack user committee (as described on the foundation list at

Re: [Openstack] How to deploy openstack automatically in your env.

2012-12-03 Thread Tim Bell
Lei, At CERN, we run our RHEL-based OpenStack instance with the puppetlabs modules. They work very well and simplify the multi-node deployments. We've got around 200 hypervisors deployed with this method. Tim -Original Message- From:

Re: [Openstack] Is there any way to migrate the Instance between the projects/tenants?

2012-11-28 Thread Tim Bell
We were also interested in this function but could not find an easy way to do it. The operation becomes more complex when there are attached volumes and potentially different permissions between the two projects. Tim From: openstack-bounces+tim.bell=cern...@lists.launchpad.net

Re: [Openstack] [ceilometer] Monitoring physical devices

2012-11-06 Thread Tim Bell
There is a use case for base metal hardware metering in the private cloud where the user allocated the machine does not have root access to kill the metering. Being able to create a single metering infrastructure for the entire private cloud, virtual or bare-metal allocation, is a need

Re: [Openstack] Is there any method to Activate Windows during Launch a new Instance?

2012-11-03 Thread Tim Bell
Have you had a look at cloud-init ? Tim - Reply message - From: Ray Sun qsun01...@cienet.com.cn To: openstack openstack@lists.launchpad.net Subject: [Openstack] Is there any method to Activate Windows during Launch a new Instance? Date: Sat, Nov 3, 2012 03:04 I create a windows 7

Re: [Openstack] Distributed configuration database

2012-11-03 Thread Tim Bell
Puppet is great for this sort of thing. There are various ways of querying parameters and making choices about them. A typical example would be where you want to adjust a configuration parameter due to memory configuration or network. Writing the puppet configuration is not difficult...

Re: [Openstack] Quotas in folsom

2012-10-29 Thread Tim Bell
+1 for Boson ... this is a key area for CERN too. When you have a fixed budget and no credit cards, quota management is a strong requirement! Tim -Original Message- From: openstack-bounces+tim.bell=cern...@lists.launchpad.net

Re: [Openstack] Use of MAC addresses in Openstack VMs

2012-10-20 Thread Tim Bell
If we purchase an OUI, is there a mechanism within Quantum to only allocate Mac addresses with that prefix ? Tim From: openstack-bounces+tim.bell=cern...@lists.launchpad.net [mailto:openstack-bounces+tim.bell=cern...@lists.launchpad.net] On Behalf Of Salvatore Orlando Sent: 20 October

Re: [Openstack] File Injection through Horizon

2012-10-03 Thread Tim Bell
Cloud-init is also available on RHEL systems too. We're using it extensively to contextualise VMs on Scientific Linux. We've even tried a windows version but this is not as functional. Tim From: openstack-bounces+tim.bell=cern...@lists.launchpad.net

Re: [Openstack] File Injection through Horizon

2012-10-03 Thread Tim Bell
scripts to run during initialization to retrieve and install ssh keys and to let the user run various scripts. Tim -Original Message- From: Blair Bethwaite [mailto:blair.bethwa...@gmail.com] Sent: 03 October 2012 14:39 To: Kiall Mac Innes Cc: Tim Bell; openstack@lists.launchpad.net

Re: [Openstack] CY12-Q3 Community Analysis — OpenStack vs OpenNebula vs Eucalyptus vs CloudStack

2012-10-02 Thread Tim Bell
Were the developer and operator lists included in your analysis ? - http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/ - http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-operators/ Full set is at http://wiki.openstack.org/MailingLists Tim -Original Message- From:

Re: [Openstack] OpenStack and HyperV

2012-09-16 Thread Tim Bell
I am not sure if I understand your question but Microsoft are making substantial contributions towards OpenStack such as the work on Hyper-V. The meeting logs are http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/openstack/dev/17175. Peter Pouliot could give more details. Tim From:

Re: [Openstack] [ceilometer] Bare metal and Metering

2012-09-13 Thread Tim Bell
Reading through the post from Mirantis on bare metal support on OpenStack (http://www.mirantis.com/blog/bare-metal-provisioning-with-openstack-cloud/) , I was wondering how this would interact with the metering work in ceilometer. Any ideas? Tim smime.p7s Description: S/MIME

Re: [Openstack] Quantum -. Multi-Plugin and support for provisioning of other devices.

2012-09-09 Thread Tim Bell
There has been some load balancing discussion and more is due at the summit. The various current activities are summarised in http://wiki.openstack.org/Quantum/LBaaS Can you explain what you mean by storage devices with respect to Quantum ? The storage activities are underway as part of

Re: [Openstack] Quantum PTL election - please check Voters list

2012-09-06 Thread Tim Bell
Can we integrate the registration process for the CLA with that of the membership ? There is likely to be some additional questions such as affiliation and interest in OpenStack, so it cannot be automatic but I would hope that most contributors to the code base would also be interested in other

Re: [Openstack] A plea from an OpenStack user

2012-08-29 Thread Tim Bell
We should not also forget the documentation for the migration process itself. We need to have stable documentation (such as perform software installation, run upgrade script and restart service) while allowing post-release migration bugs to be resolved (when migration problems are found in the

Re: [Openstack] Migration

2012-08-29 Thread Tim Bell
I think a new release should contains details of how to do the upgrade (rather than discovering as we try it) I should aim that the deliverables for each of the projects in a new version includes in the release notes: A. dependencies (i.e. does glance folsom need to talk to horizon folsom or

Re: [Openstack] User Friendly Development

2012-07-27 Thread Tim Bell
deployment experience. I'm happy to help to consolidate the current pain points. We should gather the data for both Diablo and Essex based deployments and it may well be that many of them are addressed in Folsom (but we should check to be sure). Tim Bell CERN On 27 Jul 2012, at 19:38

Re: [Openstack] Identity API v3 - Why allow multi-tenant users?

2012-07-18 Thread Tim Bell
I thought that the v3 API supports domains as a group of tenants which would make the question rather different. Thus, I guess the question is A. Should there be users in multiple tenants in a single domain ? B. Should there be users in multiple domains ? There are clear

Re: [Openstack] Identity API v3 - Why allow multi-tenant users?

2012-07-18 Thread Tim Bell
Joyce wrote: I could see service users and security / operations teams having a need to span many domains. -Matt On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 11:24 PM, Tim Bell tim.b...@cern.ch wrote: I thought that the v3 API supports domains as a group of tenants which would make the question rather different

Re: [Openstack] Identity API v3 - Why allow multi-tenant users?

2012-07-18 Thread Tim Bell
. My question is if the user id name space is per domain or per IaaS instance ? I suspect this has significant implications in areas such as Horizon login and API compatibility. Tim From: Joseph Heck [mailto:he...@me.com] Sent: 18 July 2012 20:17 To: Tim Bell Cc: Adam Young; openstack

Re: [Openstack] [Keystone] Quotas: LDAP Help

2012-07-17 Thread Tim Bell
+1 The corporate LDAP should be read-only for a source of user, roles and attributes. Updating the corporate LDAP is not an option in many environments which can significantly benefit from the structured directory information available. Thus, at minimum, allow a r/o LDAP and local DB store for

Re: [Openstack] [nova] [cinder] Nova-volume vs. Cinder in Folsom

2012-07-11 Thread Tim Bell
Vish, How would the Nova migration from Essex to Folsom take place ? I'm wondering how we can validate Folsom without risking an existing Essex installation via some sort of clone/migrate operation. What is your assessment of the risk that Cinder is less stable than Nova volume ? Option 1

Re: [Openstack] [HPC] Openstack HPC telecon

2012-07-06 Thread Tim Bell
Would it be possible a bit earlier ? This would be 10pm in Europe so it would limit the participation. Tim -Original Message- From: openstack-bounces+tim.bell=cern...@lists.launchpad.net [mailto:openstack-bounces+tim.bell=cern...@lists.launchpad.net] On Behalf Of Narayan Desai

Re: [Openstack] Openstack and Google Compute Engine

2012-07-03 Thread Tim Bell
HPC is often used as a general term but it is actually many different facets depending on the computing model. CERN is at the centre of a server grid of 100,000s of servers called WLCG (http://wlcg.web.cern.ch) for analyzing the data from the Large Hadron Collider. The servers are located at

Re: [Openstack] CY12-Q2 Community Analysis — OpenStack vs OpenNebula vs Eucalyptus vs CloudStack

2012-07-02 Thread Tim Bell
The following may also be worth scanning: - http://forums.openstack.org/ - Mailing lists on http://wiki.openstack.org/MailingLists (although quite a few of them are quiet so would not affect the numbers much) Tim -Original Message- From:

Re: [Openstack] [Metering] Agent configuration mechanism

2012-06-06 Thread Tim Bell
With the Chef and Puppet configurators, I think we cover a large share of the community. I’d suggest that once the formats of the configuration files are settled, we get the associated supporters in Chef-land and Puppet-land to add these to their recipes along with the other folsom changes….

Re: [Openstack] Adding panel to a dashboard - Horizon

2012-06-04 Thread Tim Bell
BTW, isn't the lack of option for a dashboard user to change their own password considered as a missing functionality ? Personally, if it was there, I'd like to turn it off (since we aim to use Active Directory/LDAP) but for the standalone case, this would seem a reasonable request. Tim

Re: [Openstack] Adding panel to a dashboard - Horizon

2012-06-04 Thread Tim Bell
] Sent: 04 June 2012 21:50 To: Tim Bell Cc: Guillermo Alvarado; openstack@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Openstack] Adding panel to a dashboard - Horizon Keystone doesn't currently support querying for capabilities (i.e. what is the Keystone auth backend) so Horizon defines a dict

Re: [Openstack] Adding panel to a dashboard - Horizon

2012-06-04 Thread Tim Bell
Sounds like the folsom solution is the right way to go.. If the backend can do it, offer it.. Tim From: Tres Henry [mailto:t...@treshenry.net] Sent: 04 June 2012 22:27 To: Tim Bell Cc: Guillermo Alvarado; openstack@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Openstack] Adding panel

Re: [Openstack] Openstack with CentOS 6.2

2012-05-31 Thread Tim Bell
If you’re using puppet for configuration management, we would strongly recommend the puppetlabs openstack modules. They handle all the distribution differences too... They're working great for us with Scientific Linux so CentOS should work well too... Tim CERN -Original Message-

Re: [Openstack] [OpenStack][Nova] deference between live-migration and migrate

2012-05-31 Thread Tim Bell
I would favour a field for the type of migration which allows future expansion. we've already got migrate, live migrate and block migrate but hypervisors may have further different flavours too in the future and the API should support the full set of options while encouraging convergence when

Re: [Openstack] Identity API v3 - Why allow multi-tenant users?

2012-05-29 Thread Tim Bell
-tenant per user. Correct accounting is critical. This does require extra code but it is relevant given the use cases. Tim Bell CERN From: openstack-bounces+tim.bell=cern...@lists.launchpad.net [mailto:openstack-bounces+tim.bell=cern...@lists.launchpad.net] On Behalf Of Caitlin Bestler

Re: [Openstack] Deployments in Scientific Environments

2012-05-24 Thread Tim Bell
CERN is more of a high throughput computing environment rather than a high performance site. Although we do multi-core, our programs are not the large scale floating point programs of some other sciences, so GPUs etc. are not a significant gain for us. CERN is currently targeting a

Re: [Openstack] [Keystone] PKI

2012-05-16 Thread Tim Bell
Fully agreed. Academic and Research sites have extensive X.509 infrastructure that we would not wish to duplicate. Are you only looking at user certificates or are host certificates in the scope too ? Tim From: openstack-bounces+tim.bell=cern...@lists.launchpad.net

Re: [Openstack] i18n of log message

2012-05-01 Thread Tim Bell
I would also vote for an application prefix and error number for easy searching. It is also great when you have to write the problem determination guides. Tim -Original Message- From: openstack-bounces+tim.bell=cern...@lists.launchpad.net

Re: [Openstack] Open Cloud Computing Interface Blueprint Implementation

2012-04-20 Thread Tim Bell
Andy, Thanks for this work. OCCI is an interesting and open option as the world moves towards federated clouds. I hope that this will continue the momentum towards an open API which can address multiple backend IaaS solutions transparently. Tim Bell CERN From: openstack-bounces+tim.bell

Re: [Openstack] [Ops] OpenStack and Operations: Input from the Wild

2012-04-09 Thread Tim Bell
To: Tim Bell Cc: David Kranz; Andrew Clay Shafer; openstack-operat...@lists.openstack.org; Duncan McGreggor; openstack Subject: Re: [Openstack] [Ops] OpenStack and Operations: Input from the Wild Hi Tim, Could you elaborate more on 'performance metrics'? Like what kind of metrics are considered

Re: [Openstack] [Ops] OpenStack and Operations: Input from the Wild

2012-04-06 Thread Tim Bell
Splitting monitoring into 1. Gathering of metrics (availability, performance) and reporting in a standard fashion should be part of OpenStack. 2. Best practice sensors should sample the metrics and provide alarms for issues which could cause service impacts. Posting of these

Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity

2012-04-04 Thread Tim Bell
sites will become factors in keeping the early adopters enthusiastic. These are the user stories that will drive the next wave of OpenStack growth as much as expanding the feature set. Tim Bell CERN From: openstack-bounces+tim.bell=cern...@lists.launchpad.net [mailto:openstack-bounces

Re: [Openstack] nova zone and availability_zone

2012-03-20 Thread Tim Bell
It would be useful if there was a glossary of terms related to Openstack. It is easy to get confused as many words are overloaded or slightly different between different parts of Openstack. There is also the page on identity at

Re: [Openstack] availability/performance sensors/probes

2012-02-21 Thread Tim Bell
This does bring up a more generic problem of sharing the availability/performance code for all of the OpenStack components. At the design summit, this was proposed as one of the example use cases of the OpenStack community forge (I forget the exact name) but it was intended as a place for

Re: [Openstack] Remove Zones code - FFE

2012-02-19 Thread Tim Bell
Fully agree with the prefix for the cell... there should be storage-cells and compute-cells with different goals in terms of data locality and availability, zone has become too overloaded... Tim -Original Message- From: openstack-bounces+tim.bell=cern...@lists.launchpad.net

Re: [Openstack] [Nova] Essex dead wood cutting

2012-01-28 Thread Tim Bell
-Microsoft hypervisor ? - Are there other sites who are affected by this proposal who would be willing to invest effort to maintain the Hyper-V support ? Tim Bell CERN -Original Message- From: openstack-bounces+tim.bell=cern...@lists.launchpad.net [mailto:openstack-bounces+tim.bell=cern

Re: [Openstack] nova/puppet blueprint, and some questions

2012-01-26 Thread Tim Bell
Looks interesting. I wonder if it can be made more generic so that it would satisfy a similar set of requirements for Chef (or whatever else comes along). I would suspect that the general requirements for tables etc. are not puppet specific, although the implementations may vary. I would hope

Re: [Openstack] Swift client tool

2011-12-19 Thread Tim Bell
A Dropbox like 'sync' function would be very interesting.. does anyone know one which is compatible with OpenStack Swift ? Tim From: openstack-bounces+tim.bell=cern...@lists.launchpad.net [mailto:openstack-bounces+tim.bell=cern...@lists.launchpad.net] On Behalf Of Kuo Hugo Sent: 19 December

Re: [Openstack] Providing packages for stable releases of OpenStack

2011-12-06 Thread Tim Bell
Thierry, I'm not clear on who will be maintaining the stable/diablo branch. The people such as EPEL for RedHat systems need to have something with the appropriate bug fixes back ported. There are an increasing number of sites looking to deploy in production and cannot follow the latest

Re: [Openstack] Providing packages for stable releases of OpenStack

2011-12-06 Thread Tim Bell
We need more than 'just' packaging it is using the testing, documentation and above all care to produce *and* maintain a stable release that production sites can rely on for 6-12 months and know that others are relying on it too. Who is going to make the judgement that a bug fix to the

Re: [Openstack] Providing packages for stable releases of OpenStack

2011-12-06 Thread Tim Bell
The stable team with Duncan's additions would fully address my concerns. Tim ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help :

Re: [Openstack] HPC with Openstack?

2011-12-03 Thread Tim Bell
At CERN, we are also faced with similar thoughts as we look to the cloud on how to match the VM creation performance (typically O(minutes)) with the required batch job system rates for a single program (O(sub-second)). Data locality to aim that the job runs close to the source data makes this

Re: [Openstack] Openstack Packaging

2011-11-11 Thread Tim Bell
We would be very interested to know where we can get a recent, stable Diablo++ release for RHEL 6. We appreciate the speed of development for Essex but there is also a need for a pre-tested base on Diablo+fixes stable functionality for the potential production users to integrate to. Tim Bell

Re: [Openstack] openstack-satellite

2011-10-14 Thread Tim Bell
Let's not raise the bar too high for Satellite The points mentioned (CI, QA, etc.) should be clearly documented with a y/n for the projects to aid selection but I would much rather try out a non-CI tool in the directory than have to write it all myself from scratch. Ultimately, the aim

Re: [Openstack] API Spec

2011-08-27 Thread Tim Bell
. - Reply message - From: George Reese george.re...@enstratus.com To: Tim Bell tim.b...@cern.ch Cc: openstack@lists.launchpad.net openstack@lists.launchpad.net Subject: [Openstack] API Spec Date: Sat, Aug 27, 2011 20:47 A cloud platform simply isn't functional without an API. It is a core

Re: [Openstack] Thinking about Backups/Snapshots in Nova Volume

2011-07-21 Thread Tim Bell
useful for these disaster recovery scenarios. Tim Bell CERN ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Openstack] Thinking about Backups/Snapshots in Nova Volume

2011-07-21 Thread Tim Bell
The terms for snapshot and backup seem completely reasonable. From a server consolidation/disaster recovery point of view, the dream would be to be able to do backup and snapshot mirroring, almost like an Oracle dataguard, to a remote site. From my understanding of the upcoming Swift

Re: [Openstack] Cross-zone instance identifiers in EC2 API - Is it worth the effort?

2011-07-11 Thread Tim Bell
to the other interfaces as required. Tim Bell CERN ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Openstack] Queue Service, next steps

2011-02-21 Thread Tim Bell
this situation, whereas using Erlang may create some more difficulty further down the line. Anything that makes porting/rebuilding more difficult needs to be carefully thought through. Tim Bell CERN ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post