Re: [Openstack] Openstack Network service wiki and meeting
Thanks Rick, CC'ing the openstack-list, based on Vish's request that all openstack networking discussion be on the main list until we get too chatty and people want to boot us off :) I'm as eager as you are to keep the momentum going, but I believe that during the session on Friday we had agreed that the first networking meeting would be a week from tuesday (5/10), not this tuesday (5/3). This will give people time to create/review a proposed set of development-oriented blueprints based on friday's list and sync up with their internal teams about what resources they would contribute, etc (these blueprints still need to be created). It will also let people who weren't at the Friday meeting get an understanding of what we plan on working on and if they want to be involved. Dan On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 10:11 AM, Rick Clark r...@openstack.org wrote: Hello all, I have created some wiki space and a meeting header and agenda template for the network service projects. http://wiki.openstack.org/Network/ http://wiki.openstack.org/Network/Meetings Please start filling in the main page with data and links to the various documents we've created. The Launchpad project is here: https://launchpad.net/network-service I want to discuss teams and core team membership at first meeting tomorrow. I can create the same team structure we have for the other projects, and we can just discuss core-dev, if the group wants. I want to really jump start things, but I am anxious to not step on any toes or leave anyone out. Just let me know how much you want me to do. Cheers, Rick -- ~~~ Dan Wendlandt Nicira Networks, Inc. www.nicira.com | www.openvswitch.org Sr. Product Manager cell: 650-906-2650 ~~~ ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Openstack Network service wiki and meeting
On 05/02/2011 01:19 PM, Dan Wendlandt wrote: Thanks Rick, CC'ing the openstack-list, based on Vish's request that all openstack networking discussion be on the main list until we get too chatty and people want to boot us off :) I was planning to forward it to the list as well. That's where we need to be. But we need to make sure that everyone understands that we are not implying any project status in Openstack and that we will be following the process that the PPB approved to request project status. I'm as eager as you are to keep the momentum going, but I believe that during the session on Friday we had agreed that the first networking meeting would be a week from tuesday (5/10), not this tuesday (5/3). This will give people time to create/review a proposed set of development-oriented blueprints based on friday's list and sync up with their internal teams about what resources they would contribute, etc (these blueprints still need to be created). It will also let people who weren't at the Friday meeting get an understanding of what we plan on working on and if they want to be involved. I couldn't remember and my notes were enigmatic at best. Could we still meet just to figure out how we want to setup teams and seed the core-dev teams? It should not take long. Dan On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 10:11 AM, Rick Clarkr...@openstack.org wrote: Hello all, I have created some wiki space and a meeting header and agenda template for the network service projects. http://wiki.openstack.org/Network/ http://wiki.openstack.org/Network/Meetings Please start filling in the main page with data and links to the various documents we've created. The Launchpad project is here: https://launchpad.net/network-service I want to discuss teams and core team membership at first meeting tomorrow. I can create the same team structure we have for the other projects, and we can just discuss core-dev, if the group wants. I want to really jump start things, but I am anxious to not step on any toes or leave anyone out. Just let me know how much you want me to do. Cheers, Rick ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Openstack] openstack-meeting irc channel schedule
Since the number of projects seems to be increasing daily, I think we should create a #openstack-meeting schedule page on the wiki, so we don't accidentally conflict. It would also be a central place to see what teams are having IRC meetings and when to lurk. I don't see any real reason to restrict access to the channel. There is enough room for all the projects around openstack to have their irc meetings in the channel. Plus it encourages teams to meet in the open. Any objections? Rick ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] lunr reference iSCSI target driver
On May 2, 2011, at 12:50 PM, FUJITA Tomonori wrote: Hello, Chuck told me at the conference that lunr team are still working on the reference iSCSI target driver design and a possible design might exploit device mapper snapshot feature. You're involved in the tgt project and it is the tgt project's purgative to add features as seen fit, but are you sure that you want to support this feature? I can see the advantages of having Swift support in tgt; However, is considerably complex. You're mapping a file-backed block device on a remote filesystem to a remote block storage protocol (iSCSI). Might it not be better, albeit less integrated, to improve the Swift FUSE driver and use a standard loopback device? This loopback device would be supported by the existing AIO driver in tgt. To clarify on the subject of snapshots: The naming of snapshots in Nova and their presence on disk is more confusing than it should be. There was some discussion of attempting to clarify the naming conventions. Storage snapshots as provided by the device mapper are copy-on-write block devices, while Nova will also refer to file-backing stores as snapshots. This latter definition is also used by EC2, but otherwise unknown and unused in the industry. I foresee that Lunr could use dm-snapshot to facilitate backups and/or to provide a COW against dm-zero for the purpose of preventing information disclosure. Both of these use-cases would be most applicable to local storage, whereas most iSCSI targets would provide these as part of their filer API and it would probably not be very useful at all for Swift. The only reasons to perform storage-snapshots/COW for iSCSI targets would be for relatively dumb filers that cannot do this internally, or for deployments where their smart filers have edge-cases preventing or breaking the use of these features. Regards, Eric Windisch e...@cloudscaling.com ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] lunr reference iSCSI target driver
You're involved in the tgt project and it is the tgt project's purgative to add features as seen fit, but are you sure that you want to support this feature? Major spell check fail: prerogative ;-) Regards, Eric Windisch e...@cloudscaling.com ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Openstack] Creating a forum
I had a number of discussions with various people at the summit about creating a forum for openstack (forum.openstack.org) and everyone seemed to think it was a good idea especially for user support and discussions for people who are not likely to use a mailing list. So I have 2 questions... 1. Is anyone against creating a forum? 2. Does anyone have a specific forum software they suggest we use? Once I have it all configured, we will need to determine the categories and get moderators etc for each category. Stephen Spector will be the keeper of the kingdom in that regard so if you would like to help out just let him know. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Questions for community
Hello Folks, I'm still looking for answers to my query below. Can anybody be able to answer for me ? Thanks in advance. Cheers, Shesh From: openstack-bounces+sheshadri.amathnadu=huawei@lists.launchpad.net [openstack-bounces+sheshadri.amathnadu=huawei@lists.launchpad.net] on behalf of Sheshadri Amathnadu [sheshadri.amathn...@huawei.com] Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 10:18 AM To: openstack@lists.launchpad.net Subject: [Openstack] Questions for community Hi, I'm looking for answers to the below questions : 1) Is there a way in OpenStack to get the private ip address of an instance ? 2) if I don’t give a hostname while starting an instance, what is the default hostname assigned to the instance? Is it the instance-id returned by the Cloud Controller or some other fixed format? Thanks, Sheshadri ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] lunr reference iSCSI target driver
On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 2:45 PM, Eric Windisch e...@cloudscaling.com wrote: On May 2, 2011, at 12:50 PM, FUJITA Tomonori wrote: Hello, Chuck told me at the conference that lunr team are still working on the reference iSCSI target driver design and a possible design might exploit device mapper snapshot feature. To clarify on the subject of snapshots: The naming of snapshots in Nova and their presence on disk is more confusing than it should be. There was some discussion of attempting to clarify the naming conventions. Storage snapshots as provided by the device mapper are copy-on-write block devices, while Nova will also refer to file-backing stores as snapshots. This latter definition is also used by EC2, but otherwise unknown and unused in the industry. One of the things that was made very evident at the conference was the confusion around snapshots in Lunr. We were just talking about this in the office, and we are considering renaming snapshots in the Lunr API to backups to better indicate its intentions. Backups will be made from a volume, and a user will be able to create new volumes based on a backup. This leads to another interesting question. While our reference implementation may not directly expose snapshot functionality, I imagine other storage implementations could want to. I'm interested to hear what use cases others would be interested in with snapshots. The obvious ones are things like creating a volume based on a snapshot, or rolling a volume back to a previous snapshot. I would like others' input here to shape what the snapshot API might look like. -- Chuck ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Creating a forum
I wish the list archives had a better search function. On 5/2/11 3:12 PM, Jordan Rinke jor...@openstack.org wrote: I had a number of discussions with various people at the summit about creating a forum for openstack (forum.openstack.org) and everyone seemed to think it was a good idea especially for user support and discussions for people who are not likely to use a mailing list. So I have 2 questions... 1. Is anyone against creating a forum? 2. Does anyone have a specific forum software they suggest we use? Once I have it all configured, we will need to determine the categories and get moderators etc for each category. Stephen Spector will be the keeper of the kingdom in that regard so if you would like to help out just let him know. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message (including any attached or embedded documents) is intended for the exclusive and confidential use of the individual or entity to which this message is addressed, and unless otherwise expressly indicated, is confidential and privileged information of Rackspace. Any dissemination, distribution or copying of the enclosed material is prohibited. If you receive this transmission in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail at ab...@rackspace.com, and delete the original message. Your cooperation is appreciated. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Creating a forum
1) I think this is a great idea... 2) I would highly recommend XenForo as a platform for the forum (www.xenforo.com). Check it out if you haven't seen it before. As someone who moderates a handful of forums and participates on maybe 100+ it is the best I've seen/used. -- Chad On May 2, 2011, at 3:12 PM, Jordan Rinke wrote: I had a number of discussions with various people at the summit about creating a forum for openstack (forum.openstack.org) and everyone seemed to think it was a good idea especially for user support and discussions for people who are not likely to use a mailing list. So I have 2 questions... 1. Is anyone against creating a forum? 2. Does anyone have a specific forum software they suggest we use? Once I have it all configured, we will need to determine the categories and get moderators etc for each category. Stephen Spector will be the keeper of the kingdom in that regard so if you would like to help out just let him know. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Creating a forum
I'm all for creating a forum. The Launchpad answers thing is okay but could be better and it's very siloed to the individual project. I found a stackexchange-like open source implementation called OSQA: The Open Source QA System http://www.osqa.net/. It's written in python. Could be a good fit. Everett On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 2:12 PM, Jordan Rinke jor...@openstack.org wrote: I had a number of discussions with various people at the summit about creating a forum for openstack (forum.openstack.org) and everyone seemed to think it was a good idea especially for user support and discussions for people who are not likely to use a mailing list. So I have 2 questions... 1. Is anyone against creating a forum? 2. Does anyone have a specific forum software they suggest we use? Once I have it all configured, we will need to determine the categories and get moderators etc for each category. Stephen Spector will be the keeper of the kingdom in that regard so if you would like to help out just let him know. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Creating a forum
like! B On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Everett Toews everett.to...@cybera.cawrote: I'm all for creating a forum. The Launchpad answers thing is okay but could be better and it's very siloed to the individual project. I found a stackexchange-like open source implementation called OSQA: The Open Source QA System http://www.osqa.net/. It's written in python. Could be a good fit. Everett On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 2:12 PM, Jordan Rinke jor...@openstack.org wrote: I had a number of discussions with various people at the summit about creating a forum for openstack (forum.openstack.org) and everyone seemed to think it was a good idea especially for user support and discussions for people who are not likely to use a mailing list. So I have 2 questions... 1. Is anyone against creating a forum? 2. Does anyone have a specific forum software they suggest we use? Once I have it all configured, we will need to determine the categories and get moderators etc for each category. Stephen Spector will be the keeper of the kingdom in that regard so if you would like to help out just let him know. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Barton Satchwill Senior Developer Cybera Inc. www.cybera.ca Cybera is a not-for-profit organization that works to spur and support innovation, for the economic benefit of Alberta, through the use of cyberinfrastructure. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Creating a forum
On 5/2/11 4:03 PM, Matt Dietz matt.di...@rackspace.com wrote: I think a forum as a means of communication is great. However, I'm not sure I feel it's the right fit here. My main concern in this regard is that there would be a separation of important discussions. I think the class of questions on a forum would be wildly different than the questions on a dev mailing list. Forums would be a great place to ask questions like How do I set up my bridge interface to persist on reboot? Questions like these aren't the right questions for the openstack mailing list, and end-users don't want to bother devs with this sort of thing, so they walk away from the project before getting it set up. Properly moderated, the forums could push dev questions to the mailing list, while removing distraction from devs and building a community of users. I would also be concerned about a feeling of false consensus on hot-button topics that see activity on one channel but not the other. Finally, we'd be introducing yet another fire hose for project communications, and frankly I personally wouldn't feel compelled to check both, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I don't see forums as a channel for project communication or consensus building. I see it more as a way for users-to-user discussion on topics like how I implemented X on top of openstack, or How can I integrate system X with my openstack cluster. Things that don't get discussed on the dev list. Another way to have these sorts of discussions would be an openstack-users list, but I think lists present much more friction to tire-kickers or intrigued admins. Forums have a much lower barrier to entry, and consequently (IMHO) they are better tools for building communities. Controlling forum spam is an amazing pain, but that's another issue. :) Just my opinion, but I think end-user/sysadmin focused forums are a great idea. -- Ron ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Creating a forum
Fair points. I can see it being used for user support. Another way to have these sorts of discussions would be an openstack-users list, but I think lists present much more friction to tire-kickers or intrigued admins. Forums have a much lower barrier to entry, and consequently (IMHO) they are better tools for building communities. Controlling forum spam is an amazing pain, but that's another issue. :) Can you explain this a little? I don't necessarily object, but I frankly don't see the difference, either. On 5/2/11 5:01 PM, Ron Pedde ron.pe...@rackspace.com wrote: On 5/2/11 4:03 PM, Matt Dietz matt.di...@rackspace.com wrote: I think a forum as a means of communication is great. However, I'm not sure I feel it's the right fit here. My main concern in this regard is that there would be a separation of important discussions. I think the class of questions on a forum would be wildly different than the questions on a dev mailing list. Forums would be a great place to ask questions like How do I set up my bridge interface to persist on reboot? Questions like these aren't the right questions for the openstack mailing list, and end-users don't want to bother devs with this sort of thing, so they walk away from the project before getting it set up. Properly moderated, the forums could push dev questions to the mailing list, while removing distraction from devs and building a community of users. I would also be concerned about a feeling of false consensus on hot-button topics that see activity on one channel but not the other. Finally, we'd be introducing yet another fire hose for project communications, and frankly I personally wouldn't feel compelled to check both, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I don't see forums as a channel for project communication or consensus building. I see it more as a way for users-to-user discussion on topics like how I implemented X on top of openstack, or How can I integrate system X with my openstack cluster. Things that don't get discussed on the dev list. Another way to have these sorts of discussions would be an openstack-users list, but I think lists present much more friction to tire-kickers or intrigued admins. Forums have a much lower barrier to entry, and consequently (IMHO) they are better tools for building communities. Controlling forum spam is an amazing pain, but that's another issue. :) Just my opinion, but I think end-user/sysadmin focused forums are a great idea. -- Ron Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message (including any attached or embedded documents) is intended for the exclusive and confidential use of the individual or entity to which this message is addressed, and unless otherwise expressly indicated, is confidential and privileged information of Rackspace. Any dissemination, distribution or copying of the enclosed material is prohibited. If you receive this transmission in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail at ab...@rackspace.com, and delete the original message. Your cooperation is appreciated. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Creating a forum
If we create a forum for these types of questions, I suggest we turn off Questions in Launchpad and direct people to the forum instead. It is already hard for some people to get a response there and it will only get worse if we have to answer questions in two places. Vish On May 2, 2011, at 3:01 PM, Ron Pedde wrote: On 5/2/11 4:03 PM, Matt Dietz matt.di...@rackspace.com wrote: I think a forum as a means of communication is great. However, I'm not sure I feel it's the right fit here. My main concern in this regard is that there would be a separation of important discussions. I think the class of questions on a forum would be wildly different than the questions on a dev mailing list. Forums would be a great place to ask questions like How do I set up my bridge interface to persist on reboot? Questions like these aren't the right questions for the openstack mailing list, and end-users don't want to bother devs with this sort of thing, so they walk away from the project before getting it set up. Properly moderated, the forums could push dev questions to the mailing list, while removing distraction from devs and building a community of users. I would also be concerned about a feeling of false consensus on hot-button topics that see activity on one channel but not the other. Finally, we'd be introducing yet another fire hose for project communications, and frankly I personally wouldn't feel compelled to check both, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I don't see forums as a channel for project communication or consensus building. I see it more as a way for users-to-user discussion on topics like how I implemented X on top of openstack, or How can I integrate system X with my openstack cluster. Things that don't get discussed on the dev list. Another way to have these sorts of discussions would be an openstack-users list, but I think lists present much more friction to tire-kickers or intrigued admins. Forums have a much lower barrier to entry, and consequently (IMHO) they are better tools for building communities. Controlling forum spam is an amazing pain, but that's another issue. :) Just my opinion, but I think end-user/sysadmin focused forums are a great idea. -- Ron ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Creating a forum
On 5/2/11 5:10 PM, Matt Dietz matt.di...@rackspace.com wrote: Fair points. I can see it being used for user support. Another way to have these sorts of discussions would be an openstack-users list, but I think lists present much more friction to tire-kickers or intrigued admins. Forums have a much lower barrier to entry, and consequently (IMHO) they are better tools for building communities. Controlling forum spam is an amazing pain, but that's another issue. :) Can you explain this a little? I don't necessarily object, but I frankly don't see the difference, either. Hmmm... it's possible that statement is more a reflection of my own preferences and experience. My experience is that I will peruse mailing list archives, but I will rarely *post* to mailing lists. Something about the formality of it or the pain of subscribing and unsubscribing (or something!) makes me much more reluctant to join a mailing list than to post a question in a forum. If I do join a mailing list, it's because I'm actively using a product or project -- I've already made the commitment to be a long-term member of the community. I won't use the list just to ask a simple question about installation or configuration. Forums just seem to me to be much more immediate. Conversely, I'm also much more likely to answer a question on a forum than on a mailing list. I also find that forums generally have better search capabilities than most list archivers, and I have better luck digging an answer out of a forum than a list archive. It's possible I'm the only one that feels this way, though, so feel free to disregard this data point. :) -- Ron On 5/2/11 5:01 PM, Ron Pedde ron.pe...@rackspace.com wrote: On 5/2/11 4:03 PM, Matt Dietz matt.di...@rackspace.com wrote: I think a forum as a means of communication is great. However, I'm not sure I feel it's the right fit here. My main concern in this regard is that there would be a separation of important discussions. I think the class of questions on a forum would be wildly different than the questions on a dev mailing list. Forums would be a great place to ask questions like How do I set up my bridge interface to persist on reboot? Questions like these aren't the right questions for the openstack mailing list, and end-users don't want to bother devs with this sort of thing, so they walk away from the project before getting it set up. Properly moderated, the forums could push dev questions to the mailing list, while removing distraction from devs and building a community of users. I would also be concerned about a feeling of false consensus on hot-button topics that see activity on one channel but not the other. Finally, we'd be introducing yet another fire hose for project communications, and frankly I personally wouldn't feel compelled to check both, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I don't see forums as a channel for project communication or consensus building. I see it more as a way for users-to-user discussion on topics like how I implemented X on top of openstack, or How can I integrate system X with my openstack cluster. Things that don't get discussed on the dev list. Another way to have these sorts of discussions would be an openstack-users list, but I think lists present much more friction to tire-kickers or intrigued admins. Forums have a much lower barrier to entry, and consequently (IMHO) they are better tools for building communities. Controlling forum spam is an amazing pain, but that's another issue. :) Just my opinion, but I think end-user/sysadmin focused forums are a great idea. -- Ron Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message (including any attached or embedded documents) is intended for the exclusive and confidential use of the individual or entity to which this message is addressed, and unless otherwise expressly indicated, is confidential and privileged information of Rackspace. Any dissemination, distribution or copying of the enclosed material is prohibited. If you receive this transmission in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail at ab...@rackspace.com, and delete the original message. Your cooperation is appreciated. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Creating a forum
I agree with this posting. One thing to keep in mind is that OpenStack will have many more users (in other words, people who are not developing the software, but rather are implementing it or even using someone's implementation as a basis for end user applications) interested in OpenStack in the future and forums are excellent for end user sharing and searching. For many of them, forums are a more modern way to do this type of research and sharing, while mailing lists are a bit intimidating. I believe that even if the developer list remains on email, there will eventually be forums for non-developers. Think Matt was saying the same thing as well. Bernard Golden bernard.gol...@gmail.com On May 2, 2011, at 3:41 PM, Ron Pedde wrote: On 5/2/11 5:10 PM, Matt Dietz matt.di...@rackspace.com wrote: Fair points. I can see it being used for user support. Another way to have these sorts of discussions would be an openstack-users list, but I think lists present much more friction to tire-kickers or intrigued admins. Forums have a much lower barrier to entry, and consequently (IMHO) they are better tools for building communities. Controlling forum spam is an amazing pain, but that's another issue. :) Can you explain this a little? I don't necessarily object, but I frankly don't see the difference, either. Hmmm... it's possible that statement is more a reflection of my own preferences and experience. My experience is that I will peruse mailing list archives, but I will rarely *post* to mailing lists. Something about the formality of it or the pain of subscribing and unsubscribing (or something!) makes me much more reluctant to join a mailing list than to post a question in a forum. If I do join a mailing list, it's because I'm actively using a product or project -- I've already made the commitment to be a long-term member of the community. I won't use the list just to ask a simple question about installation or configuration. Forums just seem to me to be much more immediate. Conversely, I'm also much more likely to answer a question on a forum than on a mailing list. I also find that forums generally have better search capabilities than most list archivers, and I have better luck digging an answer out of a forum than a list archive. It's possible I'm the only one that feels this way, though, so feel free to disregard this data point. :) -- Ron On 5/2/11 5:01 PM, Ron Pedde ron.pe...@rackspace.com wrote: On 5/2/11 4:03 PM, Matt Dietz matt.di...@rackspace.com wrote: I think a forum as a means of communication is great. However, I'm not sure I feel it's the right fit here. My main concern in this regard is that there would be a separation of important discussions. I think the class of questions on a forum would be wildly different than the questions on a dev mailing list. Forums would be a great place to ask questions like How do I set up my bridge interface to persist on reboot? Questions like these aren't the right questions for the openstack mailing list, and end-users don't want to bother devs with this sort of thing, so they walk away from the project before getting it set up. Properly moderated, the forums could push dev questions to the mailing list, while removing distraction from devs and building a community of users. I would also be concerned about a feeling of false consensus on hot-button topics that see activity on one channel but not the other. Finally, we'd be introducing yet another fire hose for project communications, and frankly I personally wouldn't feel compelled to check both, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I don't see forums as a channel for project communication or consensus building. I see it more as a way for users-to-user discussion on topics like how I implemented X on top of openstack, or How can I integrate system X with my openstack cluster. Things that don't get discussed on the dev list. Another way to have these sorts of discussions would be an openstack-users list, but I think lists present much more friction to tire-kickers or intrigued admins. Forums have a much lower barrier to entry, and consequently (IMHO) they are better tools for building communities. Controlling forum spam is an amazing pain, but that's another issue. :) Just my opinion, but I think end-user/sysadmin focused forums are a great idea. -- Ron Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message (including any attached or embedded documents) is intended for the exclusive and confidential use of the individual or entity to which this message is addressed, and unless otherwise expressly indicated, is confidential and privileged information of Rackspace. Any dissemination, distribution or copying of the enclosed material is prohibited. If you receive this transmission in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail at ab...@rackspace.com, and delete the original
Re: [Openstack] Creating a forum
It's certainly a matter of personal preference, but I absolutely hate forums. I hate that I cannot interact with them using clients that I choose. No, the fact that I can choose between different web browsers doesn't count. E-mail and usenet, for instance, are excellent means for communication. I hate that I have to poll forums to see if anything new is happening. E-mail notifications from forums frustrate me even more, because I can't just reply to the e-mail to respond to the thread. Give me a forum that has an NNTP interface, and we can talk. :) I totally understand that I'm reasonably alone in this (the endless amount of forums with even more endless amounts of users all over the Internet clearly demonstrates that I'm at least a minority), so don't let me hold you guys back if you all love forums. I just know from experience that try as I might, I'm not likely to maintain any sort of motivation to participate in forums for any useful amount of time. It may be a cultural thing, so it may work out completely differently for OpenStack, but I think the number of Ubuntu core developers who frequent the Ubuntu forums can be counted on one hand. Probably even with fingers to spare. -- Soren Hansen | http://linux2go.dk/ Ubuntu Developer | http://www.ubuntu.com/ OpenStack Developer | http://www.openstack.org/ ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Do we need SSL on nova-api ports?
Hi all. So what is the decision? I see three decisions: #1 Replace existed plain http to ssl #2 Add additional ports for ssl (save plain http) #3 Do nothing Eldar On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 11:27 AM, Dirk-Willem van Gulik dirk-willem.van.gu...@bbc.co.uk wrote: On 25 Apr 2011, at 19:47, Kirill Shileev wrote: Recently, playing with libcloud against a private openstack installation we realized that 8773 and 8774 ports listened by openstack-nova-api expect plain HTTP. This is something that is rarely allowed in production installations. . Other option would be making this configurable, although not sure why and where the plain HTTP might be justified. Any thoughts, comments? An important side effect of slapping SSL with client/server certs on pretty much all connection is that it makes all sort of governance and validation jobs much easier from an organisational point of view. With more 'reuse' of existing process and validation. The attack footprint/exposed estate now splits in three clean realms: issuing of client cert, security of the TCP and SSL layer - and a specific model for what happens within that connection. With the latter bound by the previous two. Furthermore client validation can be done with narly a secret in sight. So for those reasons alone - SSLis good. Dw. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Eldar Skype: eldar.nugaev ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Do we need SSL on nova-api ports?
Can we do this with a flag (or two) and just keep regular http if the flag is not set? Vish On May 2, 2011, at 4:34 PM, Eldar Nugaev wrote: Hi all. So what is the decision? I see three decisions: #1 Replace existed plain http to ssl #2 Add additional ports for ssl (save plain http) #3 Do nothing Eldar On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 11:27 AM, Dirk-Willem van Gulik dirk-willem.van.gu...@bbc.co.uk wrote: On 25 Apr 2011, at 19:47, Kirill Shileev wrote: Recently, playing with libcloud against a private openstack installation we realized that 8773 and 8774 ports listened by openstack-nova-api expect plain HTTP. This is something that is rarely allowed in production installations. . Other option would be making this configurable, although not sure why and where the plain HTTP might be justified. Any thoughts, comments? An important side effect of slapping SSL with client/server certs on pretty much all connection is that it makes all sort of governance and validation jobs much easier from an organisational point of view. With more 'reuse' of existing process and validation. The attack footprint/exposed estate now splits in three clean realms: issuing of client cert, security of the TCP and SSL layer - and a specific model for what happens within that connection. With the latter bound by the previous two. Furthermore client validation can be done with narly a secret in sight. So for those reasons alone - SSLis good. Dw. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Eldar Skype: eldar.nugaev ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Creating a forum
What I think the essential features for any user support forum are: 1. ability to up vote so the best answers bubble to the top. 2. for the original poster to be able pick the answer they used. 3. the chance to edit answers so they don't become stale. 4. they system searches the forum when you go to ask a new question to reduce the number of duplicates. People want answers out of these kinds of forums, not having to sift through post after post trying to find the correct path through to an answer (if one even exists). I took a look at the XenForo forums and I didn't see these features. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Everett On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 3:08 PM, Chad Keck c...@chadkeck.com wrote: 1) I think this is a great idea... 2) I would highly recommend XenForo as a platform for the forum ( www.xenforo.com). Check it out if you haven't seen it before. As someone who moderates a handful of forums and participates on maybe 100+ it is the best I've seen/used. -- Chad On May 2, 2011, at 3:12 PM, Jordan Rinke wrote: I had a number of discussions with various people at the summit about creating a forum for openstack (forum.openstack.org) and everyone seemed to think it was a good idea especially for user support and discussions for people who are not likely to use a mailing list. So I have 2 questions... 1. Is anyone against creating a forum? 2. Does anyone have a specific forum software they suggest we use? Once I have it all configured, we will need to determine the categories and get moderators etc for each category. Stephen Spector will be the keeper of the kingdom in that regard so if you would like to help out just let him know. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Creating a forum
On Mon, 2 May 2011 22:41:32 + Ron Pedde ron.pe...@rackspace.com wrote: My experience is that I will peruse mailing list archives, but I will rarely *post* to mailing lists. Something about the formality of it or the pain of subscribing and unsubscribing (or something!) makes me much more reluctant to join a mailing list than to post a question in a forum. Agreed, but why can't we simply use a mailing list that anyone (non subscribers) can post? ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Creating a forum
On 5/2/11 6:10 PM, Soren Hansen so...@linux2go.dk wrote: I just know from experience that try as I might, I'm not likely to maintain any sort of motivation to participate in forums for any useful amount of time. And I think that would be the objective of the forums. It doesn't make sense for core-devs to answer questions like What's the difference between VLAN and Flat managers, when there are others that are willing to contribute to the OpenStack community by answering these questions but aren't active devs. It may be a cultural thing, so it may work out completely differently for OpenStack, but I think the number of Ubuntu core developers who frequent the Ubuntu forums can be counted on one hand. Probably even with fingers to spare. And this I see as proof of the utility of forums, because without any apparent input from the developers themselves, the Ubuntu forums are a great place to find solutions to problems. As an Ubuntu user, I've used the forums many times to find answers to questions, and all (apparently) without having to bother the developers at all. Win win. -- Ron Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message (including any attached or embedded documents) is intended for the exclusive and confidential use of the individual or entity to which this message is addressed, and unless otherwise expressly indicated, is confidential and privileged information of Rackspace. Any dissemination, distribution or copying of the enclosed material is prohibited. If you receive this transmission in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail at ab...@rackspace.com, and delete the original message. Your cooperation is appreciated. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Creating a forum
I second Soren's position - anything which is not streaming into my workflow and does not allow a two clicks response (Reply/Send) is doomed to stay out of focus and turn into ignored noise rather than a productivity tool. Dimitar Boyn Collaboration Software Group SaaS Cloud Platform Architect dib...@cisco.com Phone: +1(408)566-4265 Mobile: +1(650)996-9008 Cisco Systems, Inc. 3979 Freedom Circle Santa Clara, CA 95054 United States www.cisco.com -Original Message- From: openstack-bounces+diboyn=cisco@lists.launchpad.net [mailto:openstack-bounces+diboyn=cisco@lists.launchpad.net] On Behalf Of Soren Hansen Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 4:10 PM To: Jordan Rinke Cc: openstack@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Openstack] Creating a forum It's certainly a matter of personal preference, but I absolutely hate forums. I hate that I cannot interact with them using clients that I choose. No, the fact that I can choose between different web browsers doesn't count. E-mail and usenet, for instance, are excellent means for communication. I hate that I have to poll forums to see if anything new is happening. E-mail notifications from forums frustrate me even more, because I can't just reply to the e-mail to respond to the thread. Give me a forum that has an NNTP interface, and we can talk. :) I totally understand that I'm reasonably alone in this (the endless amount of forums with even more endless amounts of users all over the Internet clearly demonstrates that I'm at least a minority), so don't let me hold you guys back if you all love forums. I just know from experience that try as I might, I'm not likely to maintain any sort of motivation to participate in forums for any useful amount of time. It may be a cultural thing, so it may work out completely differently for OpenStack, but I think the number of Ubuntu core developers who frequent the Ubuntu forums can be counted on one hand. Probably even with fingers to spare. -- Soren Hansen | http://linux2go.dk/ Ubuntu Developer | http://www.ubuntu.com/ OpenStack Developer | http://www.openstack.org/ ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Questions for community
Hello Barton, Thanks so much for you reply. Appreciate much. I'll post my questions under QA next time. Thanks for the tip. Shesh From: Barton Satchwill [barton.satchw...@cybera.ca] Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 2:31 PM To: Sheshadri Amathnadu Cc: openstack@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Openstack] Questions for community 1) Is there a way in OpenStack to get the private ip address of an instance ? euca-describe-instances will show you the public and private ip addresses of an instance. Ordinary users can only see their own instances, admins can see all instances. 2) if I don’t give a hostname while starting an instance, what is the default hostname assigned to the instance? Is it the instance-id returned by the Cloud Controller or some other fixed format? yes, the default hostname will be the instance_id Sorry for the delay in responding, but real reason why your questions weren't getting much attention is that this is the developer mailing list. Questions like this will get better attention from the QAhttps://answers.launchpad.net/openstack site. B -- Barton Satchwill Senior Developer Cybera Inc. www.cybera.cahttp://www.cybera.ca/ Cybera is a not-for-profit organization that works to spur and support innovation, for the economic benefit of Alberta, through the use of cyberinfrastructure. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] lunr reference iSCSI target driver
On Mon, 2 May 2011 15:45:20 -0400 Eric Windisch e...@cloudscaling.com wrote: You're involved in the tgt project and it is the tgt project's purgative to add features as seen fit, but are you sure that you want to support this feature? I'm the maintainer so I can add anything useful unless I upset the existing users. Swift support can be implemented as one of tgt I/O drivers so it's unlikely that the addition can hurt the existing code. I can see the advantages of having Swift support in tgt; However, is considerably complex. You're mapping a file-backed block device on a remote filesystem to a remote block storage protocol (iSCSI). Might it not be better, albeit less integrated, to improve the Swift FUSE driver and use a standard loopback device? This loopback device would be supported by the existing AIO driver in tgt. The implementation of the snapshot itself is complicated but integrating it into tgt isn't so complicated to me. tgt already supports things complicated than a file-backed block device. For example, it uses the own image format for the virtual tape library feature. It also support sending SCSI commands via sg char devices. Surely, FUSE is another possible option, I think. I heard that lunr team was thinking about the approach too. I foresee that Lunr could use dm-snapshot to facilitate backups and/or to provide a COW against dm-zero for the purpose of preventing information disclosure. As I wrote in the previous mail, the tricky part of the dm-snapshot approach is getting the delta of snaphosts (I assume that we want to store only deltas on Swift). dm-snapshot doesn't provide the user-space API to get the deltas. So Lunr needs to access to dm-snapshot volume directly. It's sorta backdoor approach (getting the information that Linux kernel doesn't provide to user space). As a Linux kernel developer, I would like to shout at people who do such :) ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Creating a forum
On 05/03/2011 04:12 AM, Jordan Rinke wrote: I had a number of discussions with various people at the summit about creating a forum for openstack (forum.openstack.org) and everyone seemed to think it was a good idea especially for user support and discussions for people who are not likely to use a mailing list. So I have 2 questions... 1. Is anyone against creating a forum? 2. Does anyone have a specific forum software they suggest we use? There are tools which allow forums and lists to be seen as one, and users would just use the medium they like the most. I don't know if this would be possible on a list @launchpad though. Just my 2 cents, Thomas ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Creating a forum
On 05/03/2011 07:10 AM, Soren Hansen wrote: I totally understand that I'm reasonably alone in this (the endless amount of forums with even more endless amounts of users all over the Internet clearly demonstrates that I'm at least a minority), so don't let me hold you guys back if you all love forums. I just know from experience that try as I might, I'm not likely to maintain any sort of motivation to participate in forums for any useful amount of time. You are not alone, which is why I know there are projects so you can use forums AND mailing lists. Posts to the forums are going to the list and vice-versa. Too bad that I can't remember any project names, but I know it's possible, at least. I 100% agree with what you wrote about having dozens of forums to watch. It's very annoying, and lists are a lot more convenient to monitor. Thomas ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] lunr reference iSCSI target driver
Surely, FUSE is another possible option, I think. I heard that lunr team was thinking about the approach too. I'm concerned about the performance/stability of FUSE, but I'm not sure if using iSCSI is a significantly better option when the access is likely to be local. If I had to choose something in-between, I'd evaluate if NBD was any better of a solution. I expect there will be great demand for an implementation of a Swift as a block device client. Care should be made in deciding what will be the best-supported method/implementation. That said, you have an implementation, and that goes a long way versus the alternatives which don't currently exist. As I wrote in the previous mail, the tricky part of the dm-snapshot approach is getting the delta of snaphosts (I assume that we want to store only deltas on Swift). dm-snapshot doesn't provide the user-space API to get the deltas. So Lunr needs to access to dm-snapshot volume directly. It's sorta backdoor approach (getting the information that Linux kernel doesn't provide to user space). As a Linux kernel developer, I would like to shout at people who do such :) With dm-snapshot, the solution is to look at the device mapper table (via the device mapper API) and access the backend volume. I don't see why this is a bad solution. In fact, considering that the device mapper table could be arbitrarily complex and some backend volumes might be entirely virtual, i.e. dm-zero, this seems fairly reasonable to me. I really don't see at all how Swift-as-block-device relates at all to (storage) snapshots, other than the fact that this makes it possible to use Swift with dm-snapshot. Regards, Eric Windisch e...@cloudscaling.com ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Do we need SSL on nova-api ports?
More practical question: Should we use the same ports for SSL-enabled services as we have for plain-HTTP now (8773/8774)? If not, which ones should I choose for my SSL-protected Nova installation? Of course I can choose any on my own system - the question is - should we agree which ports will be OFFICIAL while using SSL on Nova installations across the globe? That's will be easy for community (at least to distingush between non-SSL and SSL setup in logs/etc). Andrey. 02.05.2011, в 16:42, Vishvananda Ishaya написал(а): Can we do this with a flag (or two) and just keep regular http if the flag is not set? Vish On May 2, 2011, at 4:34 PM, Eldar Nugaev wrote: Hi all. So what is the decision? I see three decisions: #1 Replace existed plain http to ssl #2 Add additional ports for ssl (save plain http) #3 Do nothing Eldar On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 11:27 AM, Dirk-Willem van Gulik dirk-willem.van.gu...@bbc.co.uk wrote: On 25 Apr 2011, at 19:47, Kirill Shileev wrote: Recently, playing with libcloud against a private openstack installation we realized that 8773 and 8774 ports listened by openstack-nova-api expect plain HTTP. This is something that is rarely allowed in production installations. . Other option would be making this configurable, although not sure why and where the plain HTTP might be justified. Any thoughts, comments? An important side effect of slapping SSL with client/server certs on pretty much all connection is that it makes all sort of governance and validation jobs much easier from an organisational point of view. With more 'reuse' of existing process and validation. The attack footprint/exposed estate now splits in three clean realms: issuing of client cert, security of the TCP and SSL layer - and a specific model for what happens within that connection. With the latter bound by the previous two. Furthermore client validation can be done with narly a secret in sight. So for those reasons alone - SSLis good. Dw. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Eldar Skype: eldar.nugaev ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] lunr reference iSCSI target driver
Is Swift as a Block device a real option? It looks to me that performance will be a big problem. Also how the three copies of Swift will be presented as iSCSI? Only one? Each one with its own iSCSI target? Who serialize the writes in this scenario? Nelson On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Eric Windisch e...@cloudscaling.com wrote: Surely, FUSE is another possible option, I think. I heard that lunr team was thinking about the approach too. I'm concerned about the performance/stability of FUSE, but I'm not sure if using iSCSI is a significantly better option when the access is likely to be local. If I had to choose something in-between, I'd evaluate if NBD was any better of a solution. I expect there will be great demand for an implementation of a Swift as a block device client. Care should be made in deciding what will be the best-supported method/implementation. That said, you have an implementation, and that goes a long way versus the alternatives which don't currently exist. As I wrote in the previous mail, the tricky part of the dm-snapshot approach is getting the delta of snaphosts (I assume that we want to store only deltas on Swift). dm-snapshot doesn't provide the user-space API to get the deltas. So Lunr needs to access to dm-snapshot volume directly. It's sorta backdoor approach (getting the information that Linux kernel doesn't provide to user space). As a Linux kernel developer, I would like to shout at people who do such :) With dm-snapshot, the solution is to look at the device mapper table (via the device mapper API) and access the backend volume. I don't see why this is a bad solution. In fact, considering that the device mapper table could be arbitrarily complex and some backend volumes might be entirely virtual, i.e. dm-zero, this seems fairly reasonable to me. I really don't see at all how Swift-as-block-device relates at all to (storage) snapshots, other than the fact that this makes it possible to use Swift with dm-snapshot. Regards, Eric Windisch e...@cloudscaling.com ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Do we need SSL on nova-api ports?
We should be able to do it with a wsgi middleware and either include it or not in the paste config file. In a heavily load-balanced environment you'll probably want to terminate SSL before it gets proxied to the actual api servers, but it would be nice to support the simple case where the api server could have ssl. Middleware seems like a better, more reusable solution than a flag. -todd[1] On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 7:42 PM, Vishvananda Ishaya vishvana...@gmail.com wrote: Can we do this with a flag (or two) and just keep regular http if the flag is not set? Vish On May 2, 2011, at 4:34 PM, Eldar Nugaev wrote: Hi all. So what is the decision? I see three decisions: #1 Replace existed plain http to ssl #2 Add additional ports for ssl (save plain http) #3 Do nothing Eldar On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 11:27 AM, Dirk-Willem van Gulik dirk-willem.van.gu...@bbc.co.uk wrote: On 25 Apr 2011, at 19:47, Kirill Shileev wrote: Recently, playing with libcloud against a private openstack installation we realized that 8773 and 8774 ports listened by openstack-nova-api expect plain HTTP. This is something that is rarely allowed in production installations. . Other option would be making this configurable, although not sure why and where the plain HTTP might be justified. Any thoughts, comments? An important side effect of slapping SSL with client/server certs on pretty much all connection is that it makes all sort of governance and validation jobs much easier from an organisational point of view. With more 'reuse' of existing process and validation. The attack footprint/exposed estate now splits in three clean realms: issuing of client cert, security of the TCP and SSL layer - and a specific model for what happens within that connection. With the latter bound by the previous two. Furthermore client validation can be done with narly a secret in sight. So for those reasons alone - SSLis good. Dw. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Eldar Skype: eldar.nugaev ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] lunr reference iSCSI target driver
On Mon, 2 May 2011 21:11:22 -0400 Eric Windisch e...@cloudscaling.com wrote: I expect there will be great demand for an implementation of a Swift as a block device client. Care should be made in deciding what will Surely. I also modified tgt to simply store data on Swift. It doesn't work well due to Swift's week consistency. To implement a block device on the top of Swift, you need to sorta a log structure file system, that is, never over-write the existing objects. Updating the data means creating new objects. As I wrote in the previous mail, the tricky part of the dm-snapshot approach is getting the delta of snaphosts (I assume that we want to store only deltas on Swift). dm-snapshot doesn't provide the user-space API to get the deltas. So Lunr needs to access to dm-snapshot volume directly. It's sorta backdoor approach (getting the information that Linux kernel doesn't provide to user space). As a Linux kernel developer, I would like to shout at people who do such :) With dm-snapshot, the solution is to look at the device mapper table (via the device mapper API) and access the backend volume. I don't see why this is a bad solution. In fact, conside Hmm, seems that we aren't on the same page. I'm talking about how to get an incremental changes from the original volume. They are stored in the exception table in dm-snapshot. IIRC, the information doesn't exported to user space. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] lunr reference iSCSI target driver
We have no current plans to make an iSCSI target for swift. Not only would there be performance issues, but also consistency issues among other things. For Lunr, swift will only be a target for backups from block devices. I think some of this confusion stems from the confusion around snapshots, and Fujita's proposal would make an interesting case if we were going to use swift for more traditional snapshots. But since we are looking to use swift as backups for volumes, we will not need that type of functionality initially. Eric: Our current snapshot prototype uses FUSE since that is very simple to do in python, but we are also considering using a NBD (among other options). Once we have this nailed down a bit more, we will send out more details. -- Chuck On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 8:29 PM, Nelson Nahum nel...@zadarastorage.comwrote: Is Swift as a Block device a real option? It looks to me that performance will be a big problem. Also how the three copies of Swift will be presented as iSCSI? Only one? Each one with its own iSCSI target? Who serialize the writes in this scenario? Nelson On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Eric Windisch e...@cloudscaling.com wrote: Surely, FUSE is another possible option, I think. I heard that lunr team was thinking about the approach too. I'm concerned about the performance/stability of FUSE, but I'm not sure if using iSCSI is a significantly better option when the access is likely to be local. If I had to choose something in-between, I'd evaluate if NBD was any better of a solution. I expect there will be great demand for an implementation of a Swift as a block device client. Care should be made in deciding what will be the best-supported method/implementation. That said, you have an implementation, and that goes a long way versus the alternatives which don't currently exist. As I wrote in the previous mail, the tricky part of the dm-snapshot approach is getting the delta of snaphosts (I assume that we want to store only deltas on Swift). dm-snapshot doesn't provide the user-space API to get the deltas. So Lunr needs to access to dm-snapshot volume directly. It's sorta backdoor approach (getting the information that Linux kernel doesn't provide to user space). As a Linux kernel developer, I would like to shout at people who do such :) With dm-snapshot, the solution is to look at the device mapper table (via the device mapper API) and access the backend volume. I don't see why this is a bad solution. In fact, considering that the device mapper table could be arbitrarily complex and some backend volumes might be entirely virtual, i.e. dm-zero, this seems fairly reasonable to me. I really don't see at all how Swift-as-block-device relates at all to (storage) snapshots, other than the fact that this makes it possible to use Swift with dm-snapshot. Regards, Eric Windisch e...@cloudscaling.com ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] openstack-meeting irc channel schedule
On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 11:48 AM, Rick Clark r...@openstack.org wrote: Since the number of projects seems to be increasing daily, I think we should create a #openstack-meeting schedule page on the wiki, so we don't accidentally conflict. It would also be a central place to see what teams are having IRC meetings and when to lurk. I don't see any real reason to restrict access to the channel. There is enough room for all the projects around openstack to have their irc meetings in the channel. Plus it encourages teams to meet in the open. Any objections? None from me. Sounds like a great idea. Cheers! jay ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Creating a forum
I don't know if a forum is the right answer but I would like to have a better way to organize information about deployments, operational best practices and any issues running OpenStack code in production environments. Maybe the answer is creating a few more mailing lists and irc channels. Having one email list and one irc channel for governing, design, dev, deployments and ops for 3 projects plus the 10 or so new project proposals seems like information overload to me. Just some thoughts --J On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 7:59 PM, Thomas Goirand tho...@goirand.fr wrote: On 05/03/2011 04:12 AM, Jordan Rinke wrote: I had a number of discussions with various people at the summit about creating a forum for openstack (forum.openstack.org) and everyone seemed to think it was a good idea especially for user support and discussions for people who are not likely to use a mailing list. So I have 2 questions... 1. Is anyone against creating a forum? 2. Does anyone have a specific forum software they suggest we use? There are tools which allow forums and lists to be seen as one, and users would just use the medium they like the most. I don't know if this would be possible on a list @launchpad though. Just my 2 cents, Thomas ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] lunr reference iSCSI target driver
What I've been playing with is having a manifest that contains hashes of (4mb) chunks for the volume's backups. When a user initiates a new backup, dm-snapshot does its thing and gives me a block device. I read and hash chunks from that block device and compare them to the manifest, uploading any that differ to Swift, then update the manifest with the new backup. The restore uses fuse with some basic bitmap logic to lazy load chunks from Swift on demand, plus a background thread that fills them in autonomously. I've been pretty happy with fuse's performance and stability (python-fuse that is; fusepy is really slow). The NBD solution isn't really any different logic-wise from the fuse version, but requires a lot more wrangling of server and client processes. And actually we weren't too impressed with the performance of a basic NBD server in some (non-scientific) tests. All of this is sort of at the proof of concept stage at the moment. -- Michael Barton ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] lunr reference iSCSI target driver
On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 9:12 PM, Michael Barton mike-launch...@weirdlooking.com wrote: What I've been playing with is having a manifest that contains hashes of (4mb) chunks for the volume's backups. When a user initiates a new backup, dm-snapshot does its thing and gives me a block device. I read and hash chunks from that block device and compare them to the manifest, uploading any that differ to Swift, then update the manifest with the new backup. Oh, and I don't know if keeping track of dirty chunks so backups are less work is worth putting an indirection layer on top of volumes. It's probably something we can discuss more fully and do some testing around later. -- Mike ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
