Re: [Openstack] Nova Subteam Changes

[Soren Hansen]

2011/12/11 Stefano Maffulli :
>> Any time you find will be in someone's evening and in someone else's
>> middle-of-the-night, and most of us probably also have busy calendars.
> What is not clear to me is if you would like to reduce the amount of
> meetings or just not add more.

One step at a time :)

> Which ones of the meetings listed on
> http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/ are the most difficult for you to
> attend to?

I'm sorry that I can't attend the QA team meeting, the orchestration
team meeting and the nova-db team meeting.

I've accepted that my Tuesday evening is sacrificed on the altar of IRC
meetings. After all, it's only the evening and only one of them.  I feel
quite sad that it's virtually impossible for anyone East of here to
attend as it'll be during their night, though.

>> My business hours are 9 - 17 (5 PM) CET.
> In my experience many employers are happy to give brilliant and
> experienced developers like you ample flexibility in terms of business
> hours, offering compensation (monetary, free time, and other perks).
> Are these hours your choice or are they mandated by your employer?

I define my own working hours, but that's really beside the point.

Calling from 2 AM - 3 AM "working hours" doesn't make it a convenient
time slot, even if that means I take an hour off at a different time.
No matter what you call it and how much time you take off at another
time, it still means you have to get up in the middle of the night for a
meeting. And if I have a meeting mid-evening, that evening is lost.

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Ubuntu Developer    | http://www.ubuntu.com/
OpenStack Developer | http://www.openstack.org/

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Re: [Openstack] Nova Subteam Changes

[Stefano Maffulli]

On Sat, 2011-12-10 at 10:13 +0100, Soren Hansen wrote:
> Any time you find will be in someone's evening and in someone else's
> middle-of-the-night, and most of us probably also have busy calendars.

We should try to limit the amount of meetings that require wide
participation to the very strict necessary. We also need to keep into
consideration that not every issue can be solved on a mailing list,
especially complex ones. Sometimes decisions need to be taken also
rapidly and I'm sure we all experienced that a live chat can help get to
a good solution much faster. 

What is not clear to me is if you would like to reduce the amount of
meetings or just not add more. Which ones of the meetings listed on
http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/ are the most difficult for you to
attend to?

> My business hours are 9 - 17 (5 PM) CET.

In my experience many employers are happy to give brilliant and
experienced developers like you ample flexibility in terms of business
hours, offering compensation (monetary, free time, and other perks). Are
these hours your choice or are they mandated by your employer? 

/stef


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Re: [Openstack] Nova Subteam Changes

[Soren Hansen]

On Dec 10, 2011 1:13 AM, "Paul Voccio" 
wrote:
> I'm not sure why this frustration is directed at me.

Because you're talking about calling a meeting as being no big deal,
which might be true if everyone were in the same office, but when we're
spread across the planet, it *is* a big deal.

> My point is sometimes you need to get people to make a decision and
> waiting for a week for everyone to toss their .02 cents doesn't always
> work.

Now I'm confused.  I thought you were arguing in favour of weekly
meetings while I was arguing in favour of just raising subjects on the
mailing list whenever you wanted. What are you arguing in favour of?

> If the idea is to have subteams who care about small parts of code
> then I should be able to go find those people to make a decision.

Sure. And you can. We're right here on this very mailing list. In a
project that is spread this far across the planet, you simply cannot
expect to be able to just "call a meeting" and have everyone turn up.
Any time you find will be in someone's evening and in someone else's
middle-of-the-night, and most of us probably also have busy calendars.

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Ubuntu Developer     | http://www.ubuntu.com/
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Re: [Openstack] Nova Subteam Changes

[Soren Hansen]

2011/12/10 Trey Morris :
> This problem has to have been solved before. Anyone know how
> multinational companies deal with meetings?

The distro team meetings at Canonical used to rotate 8 hours every week
to distribute the pain. Eventually, though, we gave up having these big
meetings altogether.

> Also, Soren, to be fair, I'm don't believe I've heard anyone propose a
> meeting that wasn't on ~utc-7 business time, yourself included.

No, because I try not to propose meetings at all :)

> Maybe there should be some give and take here? Perhaps this is where
> give starts.. What time works for you?

It certainly does seem fitting that the most pain falls upon the person
proposing the meeting. Let's call it an incentive for people to not call
meetings :)

My business hours are 9 - 17 (5 PM) CET.

In Central Time, that's 2 AM - 10 AM.
In Pacific Time, that's 12 AM - 8 AM.
In Japanese time, that's 17 - 1 AM.

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Re: [Openstack] Nova Subteam Changes

[Trey Morris]

This problem has to have been solved before. Anyone know how multinational
companies deal with meetings? Also, Soren, to be fair, I'm don't believe
I've heard anyone propose a meeting that wasn't on ~utc-7 business time,
yourself included. Maybe there should be some give and take here? Perhaps
this is where give starts.. What time works for you?

On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 8:41 PM, Thomas Goirand  wrote:

>
> - Original message -
> > 2011/12/9 Paul Voccio :
> > We put *every* single meeting in this
> > project in US business hours, *every* single meeting *outside* European
> > and Japanese business hours
>
> If I may, also *every* time it's out of reach for
> an normal humain living in GMT+8 (China,
> Singapore...). NO it is *NOT* easy to get up at 5am
> to spend time on IRC.
>
> Thomas
>
>
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Re: [Openstack] Nova Subteam Changes

[Thomas Goirand]

- Original message -
> 2011/12/9 Paul Voccio :
> We put *every* single meeting in this
> project in US business hours, *every* single meeting *outside* European
> and Japanese business hours

If I may, also *every* time it's out of reach for
an normal humain living in GMT+8 (China,
Singapore...). NO it is *NOT* easy to get up at 5am
to spend time on IRC.

Thomas


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Re: [Openstack] Nova Subteam Changes

[Vishvananda Ishaya]

Soren:

Your concerns are perfectly reasonable. We will try to come up with a plan for 
communication that doesn't involve more meetings.  I'm already in way too many 
meetings as it is.  We will do Monday without you and take your concerns into 
account for our plans.

Everyone Else:

The simple agenda for the first (and only?) meeting is as follows: 
Discuss the best possible means for communicating with each other with the 
following goals:
 * Efficiently managing and targeting blueprints
 * Addressing shared blueprints and work across teams
 * Ensuring we aren't duplicating work
 * Ensuring we aren't blocking each other
 * Staying abreast of decisions made by teams
 * Staying aligned with the release schedule

Vish

On Dec 9, 2011, at 3:04 PM, Soren Hansen wrote:

> 2011/12/9 Paul Voccio :
>> I think the benefits of an "all hands" irc/irl meeting is to reduce
>> the overall amount of time needed to drive to a decision. I can
>> usually do this in a 30 minute meeting if I have the relevant people
>> and have a handful of items that need to be decided upon. Having to
>> have that same conversation with people usually takes a few days as
>> email is not usually treated as a real-time medium.
> 
> Ok, let's assume that a decision will always be reached if a topic is on
> the agenda for a meeting. Let's also assume that points for discussion
> can pop up at any given time throughout the week. (For the record, I
> only believe that one of these assumptions is sound, but meh.) As such,
> with a weekly meeting, it can take anywhere between 0 and 168 hours (or
> an average of 84 hours) to reach a decision.  I honestly don't see how
> that's better than a predictable few days.
> 
> This project is bigger than your office. You simply can't expect to "have
> all the relevant people". Ever. How much Japanese attendance do we have
> at our meetings?  It's exceedingly frustrating that this part of my
> objection is completely ignored: It will cost me an evening and will be
> in the middle of the night for Japan.  You guys can spend each other's
> *working hours* on meetings all day long for all I care.  This is
> (supposed to be) my spare time. We put *every* single meeting in this
> project in US business hours, *every* single meeting *outside* European
> and Japanese business hours, and *every* single design summit in the US
> and we're surprised there's a strong US bias?  Seriously?
> 
> Also, I stand by my other arguments against synchronous meetings and for
> e-mail discussions:
> 
>>> Compared to IRC meetings:
>>> 
>>> * No need for everyone to be in the same place at the same time.
>>> * No need for everyone to sit through a meeting where only a fraction
>>>   of the topics are relevant to them.
>>> * Mailing list archives makes it simple to look up past discussions.
>>> * Much looser time limits. If I need to test a hypothesis before I make
>>>   a statement, I can do that on my own time. That's very hard to do
>>>   during a synchronous meeting.
> 
> --
> Soren Hansen | http://linux2go.dk/
> Ubuntu Developer | http://www.ubuntu.com/
> OpenStack Developer  | http://www.openstack.org/


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Re: [Openstack] Nova Subteam Changes

[Soren Hansen]

2011/12/9 Paul Voccio :
> I think the benefits of an "all hands" irc/irl meeting is to reduce
> the overall amount of time needed to drive to a decision. I can
> usually do this in a 30 minute meeting if I have the relevant people
> and have a handful of items that need to be decided upon. Having to
> have that same conversation with people usually takes a few days as
> email is not usually treated as a real-time medium.

Ok, let's assume that a decision will always be reached if a topic is on
the agenda for a meeting. Let's also assume that points for discussion
can pop up at any given time throughout the week. (For the record, I
only believe that one of these assumptions is sound, but meh.) As such,
with a weekly meeting, it can take anywhere between 0 and 168 hours (or
an average of 84 hours) to reach a decision.  I honestly don't see how
that's better than a predictable few days.

This project is bigger than your office. You simply can't expect to "have
all the relevant people". Ever. How much Japanese attendance do we have
at our meetings?  It's exceedingly frustrating that this part of my
objection is completely ignored: It will cost me an evening and will be
in the middle of the night for Japan.  You guys can spend each other's
*working hours* on meetings all day long for all I care.  This is
(supposed to be) my spare time. We put *every* single meeting in this
project in US business hours, *every* single meeting *outside* European
and Japanese business hours, and *every* single design summit in the US
and we're surprised there's a strong US bias?  Seriously?

Also, I stand by my other arguments against synchronous meetings and for
e-mail discussions:

>> Compared to IRC meetings:
>>
>> * No need for everyone to be in the same place at the same time.
>> * No need for everyone to sit through a meeting where only a fraction
>>   of the topics are relevant to them.
>> * Mailing list archives makes it simple to look up past discussions.
>> * Much looser time limits. If I need to test a hypothesis before I make
>>   a statement, I can do that on my own time. That's very hard to do
>>   during a synchronous meeting.

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Ubuntu Developer     | http://www.ubuntu.com/
OpenStack Developer  | http://www.openstack.org/

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Re: [Openstack] Nova Subteam Changes

[Soren Hansen]

2011/12/8 Vishvananda Ishaya :
> I'm hesitant to do more meetings as well, but we do need some
> coordination.

I call false dichotomy on this. I don't buy the "without meetings, we
can't coordinate anything" notion.

> I will leave the one for Monday on the board for now.   Lets have one
> meeting with the goal being to never need another one.

Ok. Let me know how it goes. :) As I said, I can't attend.

> IDEA: We could have a "status" etherpad that everyone could keep
> updated each week with current tasks, important blueprints, concerns
> etc.

What would that gain us compared to a status e-mail? The benefits of
using e-mail instead of Etherpad:

 * They're easier to look up after the fact (mailing list arcvhies are
   already set up).
 * It enables dialogue about the contents.
 * Having to click the send button motivates you to actually finish it.

Compared to IRC meetings:

 * No need for everyone to be in the same place at the same time.
 * No need for everyone to sit through a meeting where only a fraction
   of the topics are relevant to them.
 * Mailing list archives makes it simple to look up past discussions.
 * Much looser time limits. If I need to test a hypothesis before I make
   a statement, I can do that on my own time. That's very hard to do
   during a synchronous meeting.

-- 
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Ubuntu Developer    | http://www.ubuntu.com/
OpenStack Developer | http://www.openstack.org/

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Re: [Openstack] Nova Subteam Changes

[Vishvananda Ishaya]

I'm hesitant to do more meetings as well, but we do need some coordination. I 
will leave the one for Monday on the board for now.  Lets have one meeting with 
the goal being to never need another one. I'm sure we can come up with an 
alternate way to communicate.

IDEA: We could have a "status" etherpad that everyone could keep updated each 
week with current tasks, important blueprints, concerns etc.

Vish

On Dec 8, 2011, at 8:42 AM, Trey Morris wrote:

> Weekly status emails sent to whom? I think it could be a good idea but my 
> worry is that while the mailing list is efficient in terms of information per 
> second, it's an inefficient place for coordinating. Solve this and I'm on 
> board.
> 
> On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 7:26 AM, Soren Hansen  wrote:
> 2011/12/8 Thierry Carrez :
> > Soren Hansen wrote:
> >> 2011/12/7 Vishvananda Ishaya :
> >>> 1) Weekly meeting for team leads. This is a time for us to discuss 
> >>> blueprint
> >>> progress, multiple-team-related issues, etc. Going to shoot for Mondays at
> >>> 2100 for this one.  I really need the subteam leads to commit to making 
> >>> this
> >>> meeting. We can discuss at the first meeting and decide if there is a 
> >>> better
> >>> time for this to occur.
> >> I have a conflict in that time slot every other week, and frankly, I'd
> >> really like to avoid more meetings. I'd by far prefer keeping to
> >> e-mail, and if we (over e-mail) find something that warrants more
> >> real-time discussion, we can put it on the agenda for our regular
> >> openstack team meeting on Tuesdays.
> > The problem is the general meeting has less and less time to dedicate to
> > each project, so Vish identified that he could not get efficient subteam
> > feedback and inter-subteam coordination from it... hence the need for a
> > new meeting slot. It could be a short one (30min) at start.
> 
> I hear that, but I'd like us to at least *try* and get it to work
> without stealing yet another one of my precious evenings for another
> horribly inefficient meeting. There are lots and lots and lots of
> thing we can do to avoid meetings that we haven't even tried. As a
> start, team leads could send a weekly report about what the team has
> been up to, what the challenges have been, and what they'll be doing
> the next week.
> 
> When I say "horribly inefficient meeting" I'm not implying that our
> meetings are more inefficient than anyone else's, but just that
> meetings in general are horribly inefficient. The amount of
> information per second is tremendously low, and everyone has to sit
> through the whole thing even if they only care about a tiny fraction
> of the agenda (if they're even so lucky to have a proper agenda).
> 
> Can we try to identify what sort of information we want from the
> various teams and *then* figure out how to extract and distribute it
> rather than just throwing a meeting slot at it?
> 
> --
> Soren Hansen| http://linux2go.dk/
> Ubuntu Developer| http://www.ubuntu.com/
> OpenStack Developer | http://www.openstack.org/
> 
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Re: [Openstack] Nova Subteam Changes

[Trey Morris]

Weekly status emails sent to whom? I think it could be a good idea but my
worry is that while the mailing list is efficient in terms of information
per second, it's an inefficient place for coordinating. Solve this and I'm
on board.

On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 7:26 AM, Soren Hansen  wrote:

> 2011/12/8 Thierry Carrez :
> > Soren Hansen wrote:
> >> 2011/12/7 Vishvananda Ishaya :
> >>> 1) Weekly meeting for team leads. This is a time for us to discuss
> blueprint
> >>> progress, multiple-team-related issues, etc. Going to shoot for
> Mondays at
> >>> 2100 for this one.  I really need the subteam leads to commit to
> making this
> >>> meeting. We can discuss at the first meeting and decide if there is a
> better
> >>> time for this to occur.
> >> I have a conflict in that time slot every other week, and frankly, I'd
> >> really like to avoid more meetings. I'd by far prefer keeping to
> >> e-mail, and if we (over e-mail) find something that warrants more
> >> real-time discussion, we can put it on the agenda for our regular
> >> openstack team meeting on Tuesdays.
> > The problem is the general meeting has less and less time to dedicate to
> > each project, so Vish identified that he could not get efficient subteam
> > feedback and inter-subteam coordination from it... hence the need for a
> > new meeting slot. It could be a short one (30min) at start.
>
> I hear that, but I'd like us to at least *try* and get it to work
> without stealing yet another one of my precious evenings for another
> horribly inefficient meeting. There are lots and lots and lots of
> thing we can do to avoid meetings that we haven't even tried. As a
> start, team leads could send a weekly report about what the team has
> been up to, what the challenges have been, and what they'll be doing
> the next week.
>
> When I say "horribly inefficient meeting" I'm not implying that our
> meetings are more inefficient than anyone else's, but just that
> meetings in general are horribly inefficient. The amount of
> information per second is tremendously low, and everyone has to sit
> through the whole thing even if they only care about a tiny fraction
> of the agenda (if they're even so lucky to have a proper agenda).
>
> Can we try to identify what sort of information we want from the
> various teams and *then* figure out how to extract and distribute it
> rather than just throwing a meeting slot at it?
>
> --
> Soren Hansen| http://linux2go.dk/
> Ubuntu Developer| http://www.ubuntu.com/
> OpenStack Developer | http://www.openstack.org/
>
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Re: [Openstack] Nova Subteam Changes

[Soren Hansen]

2011/12/8 Thierry Carrez :
> Soren Hansen wrote:
>> 2011/12/7 Vishvananda Ishaya :
>>> 1) Weekly meeting for team leads. This is a time for us to discuss blueprint
>>> progress, multiple-team-related issues, etc. Going to shoot for Mondays at
>>> 2100 for this one.  I really need the subteam leads to commit to making this
>>> meeting. We can discuss at the first meeting and decide if there is a better
>>> time for this to occur.
>> I have a conflict in that time slot every other week, and frankly, I'd
>> really like to avoid more meetings. I'd by far prefer keeping to
>> e-mail, and if we (over e-mail) find something that warrants more
>> real-time discussion, we can put it on the agenda for our regular
>> openstack team meeting on Tuesdays.
> The problem is the general meeting has less and less time to dedicate to
> each project, so Vish identified that he could not get efficient subteam
> feedback and inter-subteam coordination from it... hence the need for a
> new meeting slot. It could be a short one (30min) at start.

I hear that, but I'd like us to at least *try* and get it to work
without stealing yet another one of my precious evenings for another
horribly inefficient meeting. There are lots and lots and lots of
thing we can do to avoid meetings that we haven't even tried. As a
start, team leads could send a weekly report about what the team has
been up to, what the challenges have been, and what they'll be doing
the next week.

When I say "horribly inefficient meeting" I'm not implying that our
meetings are more inefficient than anyone else's, but just that
meetings in general are horribly inefficient. The amount of
information per second is tremendously low, and everyone has to sit
through the whole thing even if they only care about a tiny fraction
of the agenda (if they're even so lucky to have a proper agenda).

Can we try to identify what sort of information we want from the
various teams and *then* figure out how to extract and distribute it
rather than just throwing a meeting slot at it?

-- 
Soren Hansen        | http://linux2go.dk/
Ubuntu Developer    | http://www.ubuntu.com/
OpenStack Developer | http://www.openstack.org/

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Re: [Openstack] Nova Subteam Changes

[Thierry Carrez]

Soren Hansen wrote:
> 2011/12/7 Vishvananda Ishaya :
>> 1) Weekly meeting for team leads. This is a time for us to discuss blueprint
>> progress, multiple-team-related issues, etc. Going to shoot for Mondays at
>> 2100 for this one.  I really need the subteam leads to commit to making this
>> meeting. We can discuss at the first meeting and decide if there is a better
>> time for this to occur.
> 
> I have a conflict in that time slot every other week, and frankly, I'd
> really like to avoid more meetings. I'd by far prefer keeping to
> e-mail, and if we (over e-mail) find something that warrants more
> real-time discussion, we can put it on the agenda for our regular
> openstack team meeting on Tuesdays.

The problem is the general meeting has less and less time to dedicate to
each project, so Vish identified that he could not get efficient subteam
feedback and inter-subteam coordination from it... hence the need for a
new meeting slot. It could be a short one (30min) at start.

-- 
Thierry Carrez (ttx)
Release Manager, OpenStack

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Re: [Openstack] Nova Subteam Changes

[Sandy Walsh]

+1


From: openstack-bounces+sandy.walsh=rackspace@lists.launchpad.net 
[openstack-bounces+sandy.walsh=rackspace@lists.launchpad.net] on behalf of 
Soren Hansen [so...@linux2go.dk]
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 6:09 AM
To: Vishvananda Ishaya
Cc: openstack@lists.launchpad.net (openstack@lists.launchpad.net)
Subject: Re: [Openstack] Nova Subteam Changes

2011/12/7 Vishvananda Ishaya :
> 1) Weekly meeting for team leads. This is a time for us to discuss blueprint
> progress, multiple-team-related issues, etc. Going to shoot for Mondays at
> 2100 for this one.  I really need the subteam leads to commit to making this
> meeting. We can discuss at the first meeting and decide if there is a better
> time for this to occur.

I have a conflict in that time slot every other week, and frankly, I'd
really like to avoid more meetings. I'd by far prefer keeping to
e-mail, and if we (over e-mail) find something that warrants more
real-time discussion, we can put it on the agenda for our regular
openstack team meeting on Tuesdays.

--
Soren Hansen| http://linux2go.dk/
Ubuntu Developer| http://www.ubuntu.com/
OpenStack Developer | http://www.openstack.org/

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Re: [Openstack] Nova Subteam Changes

[Soren Hansen]

2011/12/7 Vishvananda Ishaya :
> 1) Weekly meeting for team leads. This is a time for us to discuss blueprint
> progress, multiple-team-related issues, etc. Going to shoot for Mondays at
> 2100 for this one.  I really need the subteam leads to commit to making this
> meeting. We can discuss at the first meeting and decide if there is a better
> time for this to occur.

I have a conflict in that time slot every other week, and frankly, I'd
really like to avoid more meetings. I'd by far prefer keeping to
e-mail, and if we (over e-mail) find something that warrants more
real-time discussion, we can put it on the agenda for our regular
openstack team meeting on Tuesdays.

-- 
Soren Hansen        | http://linux2go.dk/
Ubuntu Developer    | http://www.ubuntu.com/
OpenStack Developer | http://www.openstack.org/

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Re: [Openstack] Nova Subteam Changes

[Trey Morris]

excellent ideas. I especially like the standardized list of headers.

just to be sure, mondays at 2100utc? if so, no conflicts on my end

On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 4:51 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote:

> Vishvananda Ishaya wrote:
>
> > 2) *Closing down the team mailinglists.*  Some of the lists have been a
> > bit active, but I think the approach that soren has been using of
> > sending messages to the regular list with a team [header] is a better
> > approach. Examples:
> > [db] Should we use zookeeper?
> > [scaling] Plans for bursting
> > I realize that this will lead to a little more noise on some of the
> > channels, but I think it makes sure that we don't isolate knowledge too
> much
>
> Could we have a standardized list of headers ? Those would double as
> tags for Nova bugs, so the "scaling" team could see a list of bugs in
> their area by searching for the "scaling" tag.
>
> > 3) *Closing teams.* Some of the teams haven't really started having much
> > activity.  I'm going to move these teams into a WANTED section on the
> > teams page here:
> > http://wiki.openstack.org/Teams
> > For now, people can just discuss stuff on the main mailing list, but we
> > won't target blueprints to those teams specifically. We can make the
> > teams official again once they have some activity and a clear person to
> > be responsible for running them.  Please keep in mind that I'm not
> > saying that this stuff isn't important, just that there is no need to
> > separate out if there isn't a lot of activity.
> > Specifically the teams which haven't really been very active are:
> >
> >  1. Nova Upgrades Team <
> http://wiki.openstack.org/Teams#Nova_Upgrades_Team>
> >  2. Nova Auth Team 
> >  3. Nova Security Improvements Team
> > 
>
> Agreed, so far it's mostly been individual efforts, nothing coordinated.
>
> >  4. Nova Operational Support Team
> > 
> >  5. Nova EC2 API Team  >
> >
> > I"m going to leave the ec2 team for now, because it is relatively new.
> >  If anyone feels that the other teams above should not be folded back
> > in, please let me know.
>
> The EC2 team has been meeting a few times already, and started triaging
> and working on EC2 bugs. I think it belongs to the active category :)
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Thierry Carrez (ttx)
> Release Manager, OpenStack
>
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Re: [Openstack] Nova Subteam Changes

[Thierry Carrez]

Vishvananda Ishaya wrote:

> 2) *Closing down the team mailinglists.*  Some of the lists have been a
> bit active, but I think the approach that soren has been using of
> sending messages to the regular list with a team [header] is a better
> approach. Examples:
> [db] Should we use zookeeper?
> [scaling] Plans for bursting
> I realize that this will lead to a little more noise on some of the
> channels, but I think it makes sure that we don't isolate knowledge too much

Could we have a standardized list of headers ? Those would double as
tags for Nova bugs, so the "scaling" team could see a list of bugs in
their area by searching for the "scaling" tag.

> 3) *Closing teams.* Some of the teams haven't really started having much
> activity.  I'm going to move these teams into a WANTED section on the
> teams page here:
> http://wiki.openstack.org/Teams
> For now, people can just discuss stuff on the main mailing list, but we
> won't target blueprints to those teams specifically. We can make the
> teams official again once they have some activity and a clear person to
> be responsible for running them.  Please keep in mind that I'm not
> saying that this stuff isn't important, just that there is no need to
> separate out if there isn't a lot of activity.
> Specifically the teams which haven't really been very active are:
> 
>  1. Nova Upgrades Team 
>  2. Nova Auth Team 
>  3. Nova Security Improvements Team
> 

Agreed, so far it's mostly been individual efforts, nothing coordinated.

>  4. Nova Operational Support Team
> 
>  5. Nova EC2 API Team 
> 
> I"m going to leave the ec2 team for now, because it is relatively new.
>  If anyone feels that the other teams above should not be folded back
> in, please let me know.

The EC2 team has been meeting a few times already, and started triaging
and working on EC2 bugs. I think it belongs to the active category :)

Regards,

-- 
Thierry Carrez (ttx)
Release Manager, OpenStack

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Re: [Openstack] Nova Subteam Changes

[Mark McLoughlin]

On Tue, 2011-12-06 at 19:54 -0800, Vishvananda Ishaya wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> The Nova subteams have now been active for a month and a half.  Some
> things are going very well, and others could use a little improvement.
> To keep things moving forward, I'd like to make the following changes:
> 
> 1) Weekly meeting for team leads. [..]
> 
> 2) Closing down the team mailinglists. [..]
> 
> 3) Closing teams. Some of the teams haven't really started having much
> activity. [..]

Sounds good to me. In future, perhaps new teams should only be formed
when there are two or more people actively working on stuff and need to
co-ordinate?

It was a little troubling at the summit that some discussions ended with
agreement to start a team, but no obvious sense that anyone was going to
step up and actively do the work.

Cheers,
Mark.


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[Openstack] Nova Subteam Changes

[Vishvananda Ishaya]

Hello Everyone,

The Nova subteams have now been active for a month and a half.  Some things are 
going very well, and others could use a little improvement.  To keep things 
moving forward, I'd like to make the following changes:

1) Weekly meeting for team leads. This is a time for us to discuss blueprint 
progress, multiple-team-related issues, etc. Going to shoot for Mondays at 2100 
for this one.  I really need the subteam leads to commit to making this 
meeting. We can discuss at the first meeting and decide if there is a better 
time for this to occur.

2) Closing down the team mailinglists.  Some of the lists have been a bit 
active, but I think the approach that soren has been using of sending messages 
to the regular list with a team [header] is a better approach. Examples:
[db] Should we use zookeeper?
[scaling] Plans for bursting
I realize that this will lead to a little more noise on some of the channels, 
but I think it makes sure that we don't isolate knowledge too much

3) Closing teams. Some of the teams haven't really started having much 
activity.  I'm going to move these teams into a WANTED section on the teams 
page here:
http://wiki.openstack.org/Teams
For now, people can just discuss stuff on the main mailing list, but we won't 
target blueprints to those teams specifically. We can make the teams official 
again once they have some activity and a clear person to be responsible for 
running them.  Please keep in mind that I'm not saying that this stuff isn't 
important, just that there is no need to separate out if there isn't a lot of 
activity.
Specifically the teams which haven't really been very active are:
Nova Upgrades Team
Nova Auth Team
Nova Security Improvements Team
Nova Operational Support Team
Nova EC2 API Team

I"m going to leave the ec2 team for now, because it is relatively new.  If 
anyone feels that the other teams above should not be folded back in, please 
let me know.

Hopefully these changes will help us continue to rock essex!

Vish

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