Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity
I'm about to install OpenStack for a customer in a few days. It's an SME and their first production cloud would be limited to a few hosts and about 60 VMs. Do you feel it'd be worth getting their feedback about deployment and usage? yours, michaël Michaël Van de Borne RD Engineer, SOA team, CETIC Phone: +32 (0)71 49 07 45 Mobile: +32 (0)472 69 57 16, Skype: mikemowgli www.cetic.be, rue des Frères Wright, 29/3, B-6041 Charleroi Le 06/04/12 02:28, Michael March a écrit : I've been giving this thread some thought and it dawned on my that we need to expand this page: http://openstack.org/user-stories/ Pretty much everyone featured on that page are 'big' organizations and there really isn't any detail on their experiences of trying to deploy (and maintain) Openstack. There's definitely not stories that a mid-range sized IT shop could related to. This lack of antidotal user experiences I think contributes the perceived immaturity of OpenStack. -- Michael F. March - mma...@gmail.com mailto:mma...@gmail.com Ph: (415) 894-9269 Fax: (602)296-0400 Twitter: cowmix -- Skype: Cowmix ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity
Hey Guys One of the user stories from my company. We are an SME and our customers are SMEs too. We are working on releasing documents in detail as well as discussing with the customers, for releasing the entire customizations to the community. We are working on releasing all these in the form of a cookbook. We want to all to benefit from our experience as giving back to the community is a strong part of the open source ecosystem. If people call OpenStack immature they should learn it's a community built product, if they feel it lacks in some way they should report to the community or feel free to fix stuff themselves :) . Stop worrying about gartner, if you feel it's something that can be improved , improve it and give it back. Cheers On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 3:17 PM, Michaël Van de Borne michael.vandebo...@cetic.be wrote: I'm about to install OpenStack for a customer in a few days. It's an SME and their first production cloud would be limited to a few hosts and about 60 VMs. Do you feel it'd be worth getting their feedback about deployment and usage? yours, michaël Michaël Van de Borne RD Engineer, SOA team, CETIC Phone: +32 (0)71 49 07 45 Mobile: +32 (0)472 69 57 16, Skype: mikemowgliwww.cetic.be, rue des Frères Wright, 29/3, B-6041 Charleroi Le 06/04/12 02:28, Michael March a écrit : I've been giving this thread some thought and it dawned on my that we need to expand this page: http://openstack.org/user-stories/ Pretty much everyone featured on that page are 'big' organizations and there really isn't any detail on their experiences of trying to deploy (and maintain) Openstack. There's definitely not stories that a mid-range sized IT shop could related to. This lack of antidotal user experiences I think contributes the perceived immaturity of OpenStack. -- Michael F. March - mma...@gmail.com Ph: (415) 894-9269 Fax: (602)296-0400 Twitter: cowmix -- Skype: Cowmix ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Best Regards Saurabh www.safewlabs.com | www.smbtechedge.com saur...@safewlabs.com | +919833096120 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity
+1 well said Saurabh saur...@safewlabs.com wrote: Hey Guys One of the user stories from my company. We are an SME and our customers are SMEs too. We are working on releasing documents in detail as well as discussing with the customers, for releasing the entire customizations to the community. We are working on releasing all these in the form of a cookbook. We want to all to benefit from our experience as giving back to the community is a strong part of the open source ecosystem. If people call OpenStack immature they should learn it's a community built product, if they feel it lacks in some way they should report to the community or feel free to fix stuff themselves :) . Stop worrying about gartner, if you feel it's something that can be improved , improve it and give it back. Cheers On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 3:17 PM, Michaël Van de Borne michael.vandebo...@cetic.bemailto:michael.vandebo...@cetic.be wrote: I'm about to install OpenStack for a customer in a few days. It's an SME and their first production cloud would be limited to a few hosts and about 60 VMs. Do you feel it'd be worth getting their feedback about deployment and usage? yours, michaël Michaël Van de Borne RD Engineer, SOA team, CETIC Phone: +32 (0)71 49 07 45tel:%2B32%20%280%2971%2049%2007%2045 Mobile: +32 (0)472 69 57 16tel:%2B32%20%280%29472%2069%2057%2016, Skype: mikemowgli www.cetic.behttp://www.cetic.be, rue des Frères Wright, 29/3, B-6041 Charleroi Le 06/04/12 02:28, Michael March a écrit : I've been giving this thread some thought and it dawned on my that we need to expand this page: http://openstack.org/user-stories/ Pretty much everyone featured on that page are 'big' organizations and there really isn't any detail on their experiences of trying to deploy (and maintain) Openstack. There's definitely not stories that a mid-range sized IT shop could related to. This lack of antidotal user experiences I think contributes the perceived immaturity of OpenStack. -- Michael F. March - mma...@gmail.commailto:mma...@gmail.com Ph: (415) 894-9269tel:%28415%29%20894-9269 Fax: (602)296-0400tel:%28602%29296-0400 Twitter: cowmix -- Skype: Cowmix ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstackhttps://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.netmailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstackhttps://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstackhttps://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.netmailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstackhttps://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Best Regards Saurabh www.safewlabs.comhttp://www.safewlabs.com | www.smbtechedge.comhttp://www.smbtechedge.com saur...@safewlabs.commailto:saur...@safewlabs.com | +919833096120tel:%2B919833096120 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity
+2 , I go with Saurabh. Thanks Meena Raja From: openstack-bounces+raja.meena=wipro@lists.launchpad.net [mailto:openstack-bounces+raja.meena=wipro@lists.launchpad.net] On Behalf Of Mark Collier Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 4:54 PM To: Saurabh Cc: openstack@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity +1 well said Saurabh saur...@safewlabs.com wrote: Hey Guys One of the user stories from my company. We are an SME and our customers are SMEs too. We are working on releasing documents in detail as well as discussing with the customers, for releasing the entire customizations to the community. We are working on releasing all these in the form of a cookbook. We want to all to benefit from our experience as giving back to the community is a strong part of the open source ecosystem. If people call OpenStack immature they should learn it's a community built product, if they feel it lacks in some way they should report to the community or feel free to fix stuff themselves :) . Stop worrying about gartner, if you feel it's something that can be improved , improve it and give it back. Cheers On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 3:17 PM, Michaël Van de Borne michael.vandebo...@cetic.bemailto:michael.vandebo...@cetic.be wrote: I'm about to install OpenStack for a customer in a few days. It's an SME and their first production cloud would be limited to a few hosts and about 60 VMs. Do you feel it'd be worth getting their feedback about deployment and usage? yours, michaël Michaël Van de Borne RD Engineer, SOA team, CETIC Phone: +32 (0)71 49 07 45tel:%2B32%20%280%2971%2049%2007%2045 Mobile: +32 (0)472 69 57 16tel:%2B32%20%280%29472%2069%2057%2016, Skype: mikemowgli www.cetic.behttp://www.cetic.be, rue des Frères Wright, 29/3, B-6041 Charleroi Le 06/04/12 02:28, Michael March a écrit : I've been giving this thread some thought and it dawned on my that we need to expand this page: http://openstack.org/user-stories/ Pretty much everyone featured on that page are 'big' organizations and there really isn't any detail on their experiences of trying to deploy (and maintain) Openstack. There's definitely not stories that a mid-range sized IT shop could related to. This lack of antidotal user experiences I think contributes the perceived immaturity of OpenStack. -- Michael F. March - mma...@gmail.commailto:mma...@gmail.com Ph: (415) 894-9269tel:%28415%29%20894-9269 Fax: (602)296-0400tel:%28602%29296-0400 Twitter: cowmix -- Skype: Cowmix ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstackhttps://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.netmailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstackhttps://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstackhttps://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.netmailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstackhttps://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Best Regards Saurabh www.safewlabs.comhttp://www.safewlabs.com | www.smbtechedge.comhttp://www.smbtechedge.com saur...@safewlabs.commailto:saur...@safewlabs.com | +919833096120tel:%2B919833096120 Please do not print this email unless it is absolutely necessary. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments. WARNING: Computer viruses can be transmitted via email. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. www.wipro.com ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity
I agree 100% with Michael. We need more users to come forward publicly. We are working on an updated tool for submitting that data (and a t-shirt incentive!), but in the meantime please send me your company name or clients names that we can list. I have already been chatting with many of you about this separately, but for all those I haven't — please stand up and identify yourselves as an OpenStack user! Jim From: raja.me...@wipro.commailto:raja.me...@wipro.com Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2012 11:43:41 + To: Mark Collier mark.coll...@rackspace.commailto:mark.coll...@rackspace.com, saur...@safewlabs.commailto:saur...@safewlabs.com Cc: openstack@lists.launchpad.netmailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity +2 , I go with Saurabh. Thanks Meena Raja From: openstack-bounces+raja.meena=wipro@lists.launchpad.netmailto:openstack-bounces+raja.meena=wipro@lists.launchpad.net [mailto:openstack-bounces+raja.meena=wipro@lists.launchpad.net] On Behalf Of Mark Collier Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 4:54 PM To: Saurabh Cc: openstack@lists.launchpad.netmailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity +1 well said Saurabh saur...@safewlabs.commailto:saur...@safewlabs.com wrote: Hey Guys One of the user stories from my company. We are an SME and our customers are SMEs too. We are working on releasing documents in detail as well as discussing with the customers, for releasing the entire customizations to the community. We are working on releasing all these in the form of a cookbook. We want to all to benefit from our experience as giving back to the community is a strong part of the open source ecosystem. If people call OpenStack immature they should learn it's a community built product, if they feel it lacks in some way they should report to the community or feel free to fix stuff themselves :) . Stop worrying about gartner, if you feel it's something that can be improved , improve it and give it back. Cheers On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 3:17 PM, Michaël Van de Borne michael.vandebo...@cetic.bemailto:michael.vandebo...@cetic.be wrote: I'm about to install OpenStack for a customer in a few days. It's an SME and their first production cloud would be limited to a few hosts and about 60 VMs. Do you feel it'd be worth getting their feedback about deployment and usage? yours, michaël Michaël Van de Borne RD Engineer, SOA team, CETIC Phone: +32 (0)71 49 07 45tel:%2B32%20%280%2971%2049%2007%2045 Mobile: +32 (0)472 69 57 16tel:%2B32%20%280%29472%2069%2057%2016, Skype: mikemowgli www.cetic.behttp://www.cetic.be, rue des Frères Wright, 29/3, B-6041 Charleroi Le 06/04/12 02:28, Michael March a écrit : I've been giving this thread some thought and it dawned on my that we need to expand this page: http://openstack.org/user-stories/ Pretty much everyone featured on that page are 'big' organizations and there really isn't any detail on their experiences of trying to deploy (and maintain) Openstack. There's definitely not stories that a mid-range sized IT shop could related to. This lack of antidotal user experiences I think contributes the perceived immaturity of OpenStack. -- Michael F. March - mma...@gmail.commailto:mma...@gmail.com Ph: (415) 894-9269tel:%28415%29%20894-9269 Fax: (602)296-0400tel:%28602%29296-0400 Twitter: cowmix -- Skype: Cowmix ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstackhttps://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.netmailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstackhttps://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstackhttps://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.netmailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstackhttps://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Best Regards Saurabh www.safewlabs.comhttp://www.safewlabs.com | www.smbtechedge.comhttp://www.smbtechedge.com saur...@safewlabs.commailto:saur...@safewlabs.com | +919833096120tel:%2B919833096120 Please do not print this email unless it is absolutely necessary. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments. WARNING: Computer viruses can be transmitted via email. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The company accepts no liability
Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity
hi Jim! This is Thomas / GPLHost. Do you remember me? :) I've noticed that despite GPLHost involvement in promoting Openstack and maintaining it in Debian, as well as my recent effort to have XCP in Debian as well, allowing anyone to use Xen together with Openstack, GPLHost is never listed anywhere on the Openstack website or other materials. Could you make this change? Do you need a .ai logo or something similar? Cheers, thomas goirand (from my phone) - Original message - I agree 100% with Michael. We need more users to come forward publicly. We are working on an updated tool for submitting that data (and a t-shirt incentive!), but in the meantime please send me your company name or clients names that we can list. I have already been chatting with many of you about this separately, but for all those I haven't — please stand up and identify yourselves as an OpenStack user! Jim From: raja.me...@wipro.commailto:raja.me...@wipro.com Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2012 11:43:41 + To: Mark Collier mark.coll...@rackspace.commailto:mark.coll...@rackspace.com, saur...@safewlabs.commailto:saur...@safewlabs.com Cc: openstack@lists.launchpad.netmailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity +2 , I go with Saurabh. Thanks Meena Raja From: openstack-bounces+raja.meena=wipro@lists.launchpad.netmailto:openstack-bounces+raja.meena=wipro@lists.launchpad.net [mailto:openstack-bounces+raja.meena=wipro@lists.launchpad.net] On Behalf Of Mark Collier Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 4:54 PM To: Saurabh Cc: openstack@lists.launchpad.netmailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity +1 well said Saurabh saur...@safewlabs.commailto:saur...@safewlabs.com wrote: Hey Guys One of the user stories from my company. We are an SME and our customers are SMEs too. We are working on releasing documents in detail as well as discussing with the customers, for releasing the entire customizations to the community. We are working on releasing all these in the form of a cookbook. We want to all to benefit from our experience as giving back to the community is a strong part of the open source ecosystem. If people call OpenStack immature they should learn it's a community built product, if they feel it lacks in some way they should report to the community or feel free to fix stuff themselves :) . Stop worrying about gartner, if you feel it's something that can be improved , improve it and give it back. Cheers On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 3:17 PM, Michaël Van de Borne michael.vandebo...@cetic.bemailto:michael.vandebo...@cetic.be wrote: I'm about to install OpenStack for a customer in a few days. It's an SME and their first production cloud would be limited to a few hosts and about 60 VMs. Do you feel it'd be worth getting their feedback about deployment and usage? yours, michaël Michaël Van de Borne RD Engineer, SOA team, CETIC Phone: +32 (0)71 49 07 45tel:%2B32%20%280%2971%2049%2007%2045 Mobile: +32 (0)472 69 57 16tel:%2B32%20%280%29472%2069%2057%2016, Skype: mikemowgli www.cetic.behttp://www.cetic.be, rue des Frères Wright, 29/3, B-6041 Charleroi Le 06/04/12 02:28, Michael March a écrit : I've been giving this thread some thought and it dawned on my that we need to expand this page: http://openstack.org/user-stories/ Pretty much everyone featured on that page are 'big' organizations and there really isn't any detail on their experiences of trying to deploy (and maintain) Openstack. There's definitely not stories that a mid-range sized IT shop could related to. This lack of antidotal user experiences I think contributes the perceived immaturity of OpenStack. -- Michael F. March - mma...@gmail.commailto:mma...@gmail.com Ph: (415) 894-9269tel:%28415%29%20894-9269 Fax: (602)296-0400tel:%28602%29296-0400 Twitter: cowmix -- Skype: Cowmix ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstackhttps://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.netmailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstackhttps://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstackhttps://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.netmailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstackhttps://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Best Regards Saurabh www.safewlabs.comhttp://www.safewlabs.com | www.smbtechedge.comhttp://www.smbtechedge.com saur...@safewlabs.commailto:saur...@safewlabs.com | +919833096120tel:%2B919833096120 Please do not print this email unless
Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity
Stefano will send you the logo form Thomas Goirand tho...@goirand.fr wrote: hi Jim! This is Thomas / GPLHost. Do you remember me? :) I've noticed that despite GPLHost involvement in promoting Openstack and maintaining it in Debian, as well as my recent effort to have XCP in Debian as well, allowing anyone to use Xen together with Openstack, GPLHost is never listed anywhere on the Openstack website or other materials. Could you make this change? Do you need a .ai logo or something similar? Cheers, thomas goirand (from my phone) - Original message - I agree 100% with Michael. We need more users to come forward publicly. We are working on an updated tool for submitting that data (and a t-shirt incentive!), but in the meantime please send me your company name or clients names that we can list. I have already been chatting with many of you about this separately, but for all those I haven't — please stand up and identify yourselves as an OpenStack user! Jim From: raja.me...@wipro.commailto:raja.me...@wipro.com Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2012 11:43:41 + To: Mark Collier mark.coll...@rackspace.commailto:mark.coll...@rackspace.com, saur...@safewlabs.commailto:saur...@safewlabs.com Cc: openstack@lists.launchpad.netmailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity +2 , I go with Saurabh. Thanks Meena Raja From: openstack-bounces+raja.meena=wipro@lists.launchpad.netmailto:openstack-bounces+raja.meena=wipro@lists.launchpad.net [mailto:openstack-bounces+raja.meena=wipro@lists.launchpad.net] On Behalf Of Mark Collier Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 4:54 PM To: Saurabh Cc: openstack@lists.launchpad.netmailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity +1 well said Saurabh saur...@safewlabs.commailto:saur...@safewlabs.com wrote: Hey Guys One of the user stories from my company. We are an SME and our customers are SMEs too. We are working on releasing documents in detail as well as discussing with the customers, for releasing the entire customizations to the community. We are working on releasing all these in the form of a cookbook. We want to all to benefit from our experience as giving back to the community is a strong part of the open source ecosystem. If people call OpenStack immature they should learn it's a community built product, if they feel it lacks in some way they should report to the community or feel free to fix stuff themselves :) . Stop worrying about gartner, if you feel it's something that can be improved , improve it and give it back. Cheers On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 3:17 PM, Michaël Van de Borne michael.vandebo...@cetic.bemailto:michael.vandebo...@cetic.be wrote: I'm about to install OpenStack for a customer in a few days. It's an SME and their first production cloud would be limited to a few hosts and about 60 VMs. Do you feel it'd be worth getting their feedback about deployment and usage? yours, michaël Michaël Van de Borne RD Engineer, SOA team, CETIC Phone: +32 (0)71 49 07 45tel:%2B32%20%280%2971%2049%2007%2045 Mobile: +32 (0)472 69 57 16tel:%2B32%20%280%29472%2069%2057%2016, Skype: mikemowgli www.cetic.behttp://www.cetic.be, rue des Frères Wright, 29/3, B-6041 Charleroi Le 06/04/12 02:28, Michael March a écrit : I've been giving this thread some thought and it dawned on my that we need to expand this page: http://openstack.org/user-stories/ Pretty much everyone featured on that page are 'big' organizations and there really isn't any detail on their experiences of trying to deploy (and maintain) Openstack. There's definitely not stories that a mid-range sized IT shop could related to. This lack of antidotal user experiences I think contributes the perceived immaturity of OpenStack. -- Michael F. March - mma...@gmail.commailto:mma...@gmail.com Ph: (415) 894-9269tel:%28415%29%20894-9269 Fax: (602)296-0400tel:%28602%29296-0400 Twitter: cowmix -- Skype: Cowmix ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstackhttps://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.netmailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstackhttps://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstackhttps://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.netmailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstackhttps://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Best Regards Saurabh www.safewlabs.comhttp://www.safewlabs.com | www.smbtechedge.comhttp://www.smbtechedge.com saur...@safewlabs.commailto:saur...@safewlabs.com | +919833096120tel:%2B919833096120 Please do
Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity
On Thu, 2012-04-05 at 17:28 -0700, Michael March wrote: Pretty much everyone featured on that page are 'big' organizations and there really isn't any detail on their experiences of trying to deploy (and maintain) Openstack. There's definitely not stories that a mid-range sized IT shop could related to. This sounds reasonable. The user stories page is an open project, anybody can participate. Do you know any small shop that would like to be featured there? Let me know stef ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity
Hi Thomas, yes consider it done! Jim On 4/6/12 12:00 PM, Mark Collier mark.coll...@rackspace.com wrote: Stefano will send you the logo form Thomas Goirand tho...@goirand.fr wrote: hi Jim! This is Thomas / GPLHost. Do you remember me? :) I've noticed that despite GPLHost involvement in promoting Openstack and maintaining it in Debian, as well as my recent effort to have XCP in Debian as well, allowing anyone to use Xen together with Openstack, GPLHost is never listed anywhere on the Openstack website or other materials. Could you make this change? Do you need a .ai logo or something similar? Cheers, thomas goirand (from my phone) - Original message - I agree 100% with Michael. We need more users to come forward publicly. We are working on an updated tool for submitting that data (and a t-shirt incentive!), but in the meantime please send me your company name or clients names that we can list. I have already been chatting with many of you about this separately, but for all those I haven't ‹ please stand up and identify yourselves as an OpenStack user! Jim From: raja.me...@wipro.commailto:raja.me...@wipro.com Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2012 11:43:41 + To: Mark Collier mark.coll...@rackspace.commailto:mark.coll...@rackspace.com, saur...@safewlabs.commailto:saur...@safewlabs.com Cc: openstack@lists.launchpad.netmailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity +2 , I go with Saurabh. Thanks Meena Raja From: openstack-bounces+raja.meena=wipro@lists.launchpad.netmailto:opensta ck-bounces+raja.meena=wipro@lists.launchpad.net [mailto:openstack-bounces+raja.meena=wipro@lists.launchpad.net] On Behalf Of Mark Collier Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 4:54 PM To: Saurabh Cc: openstack@lists.launchpad.netmailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity +1 well said Saurabh saur...@safewlabs.commailto:saur...@safewlabs.com wrote: Hey Guys One of the user stories from my company. We are an SME and our customers are SMEs too. We are working on releasing documents in detail as well as discussing with the customers, for releasing the entire customizations to the community. We are working on releasing all these in the form of a cookbook. We want to all to benefit from our experience as giving back to the community is a strong part of the open source ecosystem. If people call OpenStack immature they should learn it's a community built product, if they feel it lacks in some way they should report to the community or feel free to fix stuff themselves :) . Stop worrying about gartner, if you feel it's something that can be improved , improve it and give it back. Cheers On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 3:17 PM, Michaël Van de Borne michael.vandebo...@cetic.bemailto:michael.vandebo...@cetic.be wrote: I'm about to install OpenStack for a customer in a few days. It's an SME and their first production cloud would be limited to a few hosts and about 60 VMs. Do you feel it'd be worth getting their feedback about deployment and usage? yours, michaël Michaël Van de Borne RD Engineer, SOA team, CETIC Phone: +32 (0)71 49 07 45tel:%2B32%20%280%2971%2049%2007%2045 Mobile: +32 (0)472 69 57 16tel:%2B32%20%280%29472%2069%2057%2016, Skype: mikemowgli www.cetic.behttp://www.cetic.be, rue des Frères Wright, 29/3, B-6041 Charleroi Le 06/04/12 02:28, Michael March a écrit : I've been giving this thread some thought and it dawned on my that we need to expand this page: http://openstack.org/user-stories/ Pretty much everyone featured on that page are 'big' organizations and there really isn't any detail on their experiences of trying to deploy (and maintain) Openstack. There's definitely not stories that a mid-range sized IT shop could related to. This lack of antidotal user experiences I think contributes the perceived immaturity of OpenStack. -- Michael F. March - mma...@gmail.commailto:mma...@gmail.com Ph: (415) 894-9269tel:%28415%29%20894-9269 Fax: (602)296-0400tel:%28602%29296-0400 Twitter: cowmix -- Skype: Cowmix ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstackhttps://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.netmailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstackhttps://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstackhttps://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.netmailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstackhttps://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Best Regards Saurabh www.safewlabs.comhttp://www.safewlabs.com | www.smbtechedge.comhttp
Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity
Michael, were not IBM or Dell, were not as big as you think. Were just 4 guys that deployed and mantain our openstack private cloud. Yes just four guys. Were always present at the summits or cons answering questions and telling people how hard was moving into iaas how many time it takes to deploy openstack , if its hard, what were our challenges trying to go Openstack from flat virtualization. I guess that youre saying this cause maybe you never spoken or see us. We as a succesfull user case are at the project disposition to talk about anything you need to the press or the end users as we do helping as admins on the forums. I agree that that page needs to get expanded and theres more companies using openstack, but really in production?. i think labeling its wrong. Regards l...@mercadolibre.com On Apr 5, 2012 9:33 PM, Michael March mma...@gmail.com wrote: I've been giving this thread some thought and it dawned on my that we need to expand this page: http://openstack.org/user-stories/ Pretty much everyone featured on that page are 'big' organizations and there really isn't any detail on their experiences of trying to deploy (and maintain) Openstack. There's definitely not stories that a mid-range sized IT shop could related to. This lack of antidotal user experiences I think contributes the perceived immaturity of OpenStack. -- Michael F. March - mma...@gmail.com Ph: (415) 894-9269 Fax: (602)296-0400 Twitter: cowmix -- Skype: Cowmix ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity
+ ? On 4/5/12 9:43 AM, Jay Pipes jaypi...@gmail.com wrote: +1. On 04/04/2012 04:20 PM, David Kranz wrote: +1000 I believe the nova team should make backporting essential bugs to a stable essex base and dealing with the upgrade issue the highest priority for the start (at least) of the Folsom cycle. We need people to deploy real systems using Essex. With regard to smooth upgrades, they won't happen if the issue is always punted to the end of a release cycle. The way to do this is to create a test very early in Folsom that demonstrates how a real large-scale style deployment can be upgraded to a new version containing no code changes. Any future change that breaks that test must be evaluated to compare the value of the change against whatever upgrade pain will be caused. In terms of real deployments, this issue scares me more than the fact that there are bugs. There will always be bugs. But we can't have it be tricky and risky to deploy the fixes. -David On 4/4/2012 2:30 PM, Tim Bell wrote: Essex is a key release in this respect. With the excellent work done by the developers, testers and packaging teams, OpenStack is much better positioned than with Diablo. As the work proceeds on Folsom, back porting critical bugs and planning for a smooth migration path for production sites will become factors in keeping the early adopters enthusiastic. These are the user stories that will drive the next wave of OpenStack growth as much as expanding the feature set. Tim Bell CERN ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity
I've been giving this thread some thought and it dawned on my that we need to expand this page: http://openstack.org/user-stories/ Pretty much everyone featured on that page are 'big' organizations and there really isn't any detail on their experiences of trying to deploy (and maintain) Openstack. There's definitely not stories that a mid-range sized IT shop could related to. This lack of antidotal user experiences I think contributes the perceived immaturity of OpenStack. -- Michael F. March - mma...@gmail.com Ph: (415) 894-9269 Fax: (602)296-0400 Twitter: cowmix -- Skype: Cowmix ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Openstack] OpenStack immaturity
Hi everyone, According to the statement of this article from Gartner group http://blogs.gartner.com/lydia_leong/2012/04/03/citrix-cloudstack-openstack-and-the-war-for-open-source-clouds/ Openstack is a highly immature platform. But why? What's make Openstack so immature? Any comments on that? Thank you in advance :) ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity
Immaturity of a platform is something you can easily fix paying the right fee to your favorite analyst firm. Seriously, Openstack is an open platform and an open community. This means problems and issues are open to discuss to everyone. Propietary platforms issues are rarely disclosed, and they look more mature. And believe me, I have used most of them and Openstack is not more unstable (or stable) than others. Anyway, it's time to move the stack from 'devs' to 'ops'. When somebody says 'you have to install the development version to fix this' instead of 'you have to follow this procedure on the stable version', you cannot imagine the damage made to Openstack Nova. It's painful, but it's the only way to have a robust platform. Let's forget about 'you will have it in the next release': we are not Microsoft. This is real, not vapourware. My two cents Diego -- Diego Parrilla http://www.stackops.com/*CEO* *www.stackops.com | * diego.parri...@stackops.com** | +34 649 94 43 29 | skype:diegoparrilla* * http://www.stackops.com/ ** On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Sébastien Han han.sebast...@gmail.comwrote: Hi everyone, According to the statement of this article from Gartner group http://blogs.gartner.com/lydia_leong/2012/04/03/citrix-cloudstack-openstack-and-the-war-for-open-source-clouds/ Openstack is a highly immature platform. But why? What's make Openstack so immature? Any comments on that? Thank you in advance :) ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity
It depends on what you expect OpenStack to do for you. If you want pre-packaged, click-to-install software, it is not there, yet. But if you want to be able to influence the future of the project you want to bet your business on, you have a much higher chance of doing that with OpenStack than with other projects in this space. Just my $.02 worth. Jacek Artymiak author: http://docs.openstack.org/api/openstack-compute/programmer/content/ (please submit patches so we can improve this document) On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Sébastien Han han.sebast...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, According to the statement of this article from Gartner group http://blogs.gartner.com/lydia_leong/2012/04/03/citrix-cloudstack-openstack-and-the-war-for-open-source-clouds/ Openstack is a highly immature platform. But why? What's make Openstack so immature? Any comments on that? Thank you in advance :) ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity
I believe this Openstack is a highly immature platform. is referring more to nova than swift. The simple reason for that is nova is more focused on dev than ops but that is changing.In mature projects the questions like How do I run this reliably every day? and How can I safely upgrade from one version to the next? are just as important as What new features are coming?. Time will tell. On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 6:27 AM, Frans Thamura fr...@meruvian.org wrote: I think this news is good Make us must work hard. Time will tell Like linux, now lead. On Apr 4, 2012 5:57 PM, Diego Parrilla Santamaría diego.parrilla.santama...@gmail.com wrote: Immaturity of a platform is something you can easily fix paying the right fee to your favorite analyst firm. Seriously, Openstack is an open platform and an open community. This means problems and issues are open to discuss to everyone. Propietary platforms issues are rarely disclosed, and they look more mature. And believe me, I have used most of them and Openstack is not more unstable (or stable) than others. Anyway, it's time to move the stack from 'devs' to 'ops'. When somebody says 'you have to install the development version to fix this' instead of 'you have to follow this procedure on the stable version', you cannot imagine the damage made to Openstack Nova. It's painful, but it's the only way to have a robust platform. Let's forget about 'you will have it in the next release': we are not Microsoft. This is real, not vapourware. My two cents Diego -- Diego Parrilla CEO www.stackops.com | diego.parri...@stackops.com | +34 649 94 43 29 | skype:diegoparrilla On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Sébastien Han han.sebast...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, According to the statement of this article from Gartner group http://blogs.gartner.com/lydia_leong/2012/04/03/citrix-cloudstack-openstack-and-the-war-for-open-source-clouds/ Openstack is a highly immature platform. But why? What's make Openstack so immature? Any comments on that? Thank you in advance :) ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity
The "immaturity" being exposed here has nothing to do with neither stability nor bugs - in fact the angle is more about an ease of deployment.Such statements are not new, and well known from "enterprises" point of view.I remember same articles about Linux, few years back about Zimbra, few months back about proxmox, etc...This is an endless statement : "Is it possible for a community-driven project to find it's place in business needs ?" The answer for Openstack is NO, when it comes to ease of deployment compared to VMmware, and any CLI-less required installers...But even if fantastic progress has been made, on the different projects, let's face it, even more progress are required today to give a satisfaction to the OP.Let's keep working as we are doing : fixing, testing, thinking, updating.When all the projects will be stable enough to work on a same level - I'm quite confident we could see more positives feedbacks from Gartner Nuage Co - Razique Mahrouarazique.mahr...@gmail.com Le 4 avr. 2012 à 14:48, Jacek Artymiak a écrit :It depends on what you expect OpenStack to do for you. If you wantpre-packaged, click-to-install software, it is not there, yet. But ifyou want to be able to influence the future of the project you want tobet your business on, you have a much higher chance of doing that withOpenStack than with other projects in this space.Just my $.02 worth.Jacek Artymiakauthor: http://docs.openstack.org/api/openstack-compute/programmer/content/(please submit patches so we can improve this document)On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Sébastien Han han.sebast...@gmail.com wrote:Hi everyone,According to the statement of this article from Gartnergrouphttp://blogs.gartner.com/lydia_leong/2012/04/03/citrix-cloudstack-openstack-and-the-war-for-open-source-clouds/Openstackisahighly immature platform.But why?What's make Openstack so immature?Any comments on that?Thank you in advance :)___Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstackPost to : openstack@lists.launchpad.netUnsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstackMore help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity
H. While ease of deployment is definitely an area of future strength for OS, the gap is closing rapidly and the reality for the enterprise is that initial, comparable (apples to apples) VMWare installations all come with an initial professional services engagement anyway. Having just done a bake-off twixt the latest OS builds and VMWare for creating an enterprise private IaaS cloud, my strategic money's on OpenStack and the community is starting to make significant in-roads on the tactical value as well. Lots of areas of future strength but the promise remains immense and the feasibility for the enterprise continues to grow. Keep up the good work. Keep Calm, Carry On, and all that. Jan PS: Anybody got an extra ticket to the design summit? On Apr 4, 2012, at 6:14 AM, Razique Mahroua razique.mahr...@gmail.com wrote: The immaturity being exposed here has nothing to do with neither stability nor bugs - in fact the angle is more about an ease of deployment. Such statements are not new, and well known from enterprises point of view. I remember same articles about Linux, few years back about Zimbra, few months back about proxmox, etc... This is an endless statement : Is it possible for a community-driven project to find it's place in business needs ? The answer for Openstack is NO, when it comes to ease of deployment compared to VMmware, and any CLI-less required installers... But even if fantastic progress has been made, on the different projects, let's face it, even more progress are required today to give a satisfaction to the OP. Let's keep working as we are doing : fixing, testing, thinking, updating. When all the projects will be stable enough to work on a same level - I'm quite confident we could see more positives feedbacks from Gartner Nuage Co - Razique Mahroua razique.mahr...@gmail.com NUAGECO-LOGO-Fblan_petit.jpg Le 4 avr. 2012 à 14:48, Jacek Artymiak a écrit : It depends on what you expect OpenStack to do for you. If you want pre-packaged, click-to-install software, it is not there, yet. But if you want to be able to influence the future of the project you want to bet your business on, you have a much higher chance of doing that with OpenStack than with other projects in this space. Just my $.02 worth. Jacek Artymiak author: http://docs.openstack.org/api/openstack-compute/programmer/content/ (please submit patches so we can improve this document) On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Sébastien Han han.sebast...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, According to the statement of this article from Gartner group http://blogs.gartner.com/lydia_leong/2012/04/03/citrix-cloudstack-openstack-and-the-war-for-open-source-clouds/ Openstack is a highly immature platform. But why? What's make Openstack so immature? Any comments on that? Thank you in advance :) ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity
On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 8:14 AM, Razique Mahroua razique.mahr...@gmail.comwrote: The immaturity being exposed here has nothing to do with neither stability nor bugs - in fact the angle is more about an ease of deployment. Such statements are not new, and well known from enterprises point of view. I remember same articles about Linux, few years back about Zimbra, few months back about proxmox, etc... This is an endless statement : Is it possible for a community-driven project to find it's place in business needs ? The answer for Openstack is NO, when it comes to ease of deployment compared to VMmware, and any CLI-less required installers... But even if fantastic progress has been made, on the different projects, let's face it, even more progress are required today to give a satisfaction to the OP. Let's keep working as we are doing : fixing, testing, thinking, updating. When all the projects will be stable enough to work on a same level - I'm quite confident we could see more positives feedbacks from Gartner *Nuage Co - Razique Mahroua** * razique.mahr...@gmail.com Le 4 avr. 2012 à 14:48, Jacek Artymiak a écrit : It depends on what you expect OpenStack to do for you. If you want pre-packaged, click-to-install software, it is not there, yet. But if you want to be able to influence the future of the project you want to bet your business on, you have a much higher chance of doing that with OpenStack than with other projects in this space. Just my $.02 worth. Jacek Artymiak author: http://docs.openstack.org/api/openstack-compute/programmer/content/ (please submit patches so we can improve this document) On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Sébastien Han han.sebast...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, According to the statement of this article from Gartner group http://blogs.gartner.com/lydia_leong/2012/04/03/citrix-cloudstack-openstack-and-the-war-for-open-source-clouds/ Openstack is a highly immature platform. But why? What's make Openstack so immature? Any comments on that? Thank you in advance :) ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity
According to the statement of this article from Gartner group http://blogs.gartner.com/lydia_leong/2012/04/03/citrix-cloudstack-openstack-and-the-war-for-open-source-clouds/ Openstack is a highly immature platform. But why? What's make Openstack so immature? Any comments on that? Thank you in advance :) I agree that it's an immature platform. That said, it's also a very young platform and isn't that to be expected? There's a number of things that need to be fixed before I'd ever recommend Nova's use in production: 1. There's no upgrade path currently. Upgrading requires fairly substantial downtime. 2. Live migration is broken. Utterly. 3. Every release fixes so many things that it's really important to upgrade every time; however, only one release will likely be supported every Ubuntu LTS release, meaning you're either stuck with a really old (likely broken) version of nova, or you're stuck will a very likely unstable version of Ubuntu. This will be easier over time, when nova is more stable and has less bugs, but it's incredibly painful right now. That said, I feel OpenStack's strengths greatly outweigh its immatureness. I ran a private cloud at my last organization using a VMWare ESXi cluster. It was more mature, upgrades worked appropriately, live migration was solid, etc. I had (and still have) the choice to run VMWare for my current project and am extremely happy with my choice of OpenStack. The flexibility provided by the platform and my ability to contribute to its future make its immaturity a non-concern. Every release gets closer and closer to a stability point I'm comfortable with. This article isn't bad news. In fact, I'd say it shows that competitors see OpenStack as a fairly major threat. We should be celebrating this ;). - Ryan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity
Essex is a key release in this respect. With the excellent work done by the developers, testers and packaging teams, OpenStack is much better positioned than with Diablo. As the work proceeds on Folsom, back porting critical bugs and planning for a smooth migration path for production sites will become factors in keeping the early adopters enthusiastic. These are the user stories that will drive the next wave of OpenStack growth as much as expanding the feature set. Tim Bell CERN From: openstack-bounces+tim.bell=cern...@lists.launchpad.net [mailto:openstack-bounces+tim.bell=cern...@lists.launchpad.net] On Behalf Of Jan Drake Sent: 04 April 2012 16:37 To: Razique Mahroua Cc: openstack@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity H. While ease of deployment is definitely an area of future strength for OS, the gap is closing rapidly and the reality for the enterprise is that initial, comparable (apples to apples) VMWare installations all come with an initial professional services engagement anyway. Having just done a bake-off twixt the latest OS builds and VMWare for creating an enterprise private IaaS cloud, my strategic money's on OpenStack and the community is starting to make significant in-roads on the tactical value as well. Lots of areas of future strength but the promise remains immense and the feasibility for the enterprise continues to grow. Keep up the good work. Keep Calm, Carry On, and all that. Jan PS: Anybody got an extra ticket to the design summit? On Apr 4, 2012, at 6:14 AM, Razique Mahroua razique.mahr...@gmail.com wrote: The immaturity being exposed here has nothing to do with neither stability nor bugs - in fact the angle is more about an ease of deployment. Such statements are not new, and well known from enterprises point of view. I remember same articles about Linux, few years back about Zimbra, few months back about proxmox, etc... This is an endless statement : Is it possible for a community-driven project to find it's place in business needs ? The answer for Openstack is NO, when it comes to ease of deployment compared to VMmware, and any CLI-less required installers... But even if fantastic progress has been made, on the different projects, let's face it, even more progress are required today to give a satisfaction to the OP. Let's keep working as we are doing : fixing, testing, thinking, updating. When all the projects will be stable enough to work on a same level - I'm quite confident we could see more positives feedbacks from Gartner Nuage Co - Razique Mahroua razique.mahr...@gmail.com NUAGECO-LOGO-Fblan_petit.jpg Le 4 avr. 2012 à 14:48, Jacek Artymiak a écrit : It depends on what you expect OpenStack to do for you. If you want pre-packaged, click-to-install software, it is not there, yet. But if you want to be able to influence the future of the project you want to bet your business on, you have a much higher chance of doing that with OpenStack than with other projects in this space. Just my $.02 worth. Jacek Artymiak author: http://docs.openstack.org/api/openstack-compute/programmer/content/ (please submit patches so we can improve this document) On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Sébastien Han han.sebast...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, According to the statement of this article from Gartner group http://blogs.gartner.com/lydia_leong/2012/04/03/citrix-cloudstack-openstack-and-the-war-for-open-source-clouds/ Openstack is a highly immature platform. But why? What's make Openstack so immature? Any comments on that? Thank you in advance :) ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity
There are many projects rolled up into the thing called OpenStack. Nova is only one of them and is the one that most people are talking about when they say OpenStack. This does a huge disservice to the other projects especially Swift. It's very frustrating to see the other projects all painted with the Nova brush. On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 1:25 PM, Ryan Lane rl...@wikimedia.org wrote: According to the statement of this article from Gartner group http://blogs.gartner.com/lydia_leong/2012/04/03/citrix-cloudstack-openstack-and-the-war-for-open-source-clouds/ Openstack is a highly immature platform. But why? What's make Openstack so immature? Any comments on that? Thank you in advance :) I agree that it's an immature platform. That said, it's also a very young platform and isn't that to be expected? There's a number of things that need to be fixed before I'd ever recommend Nova's use in production: 1. There's no upgrade path currently. Upgrading requires fairly substantial downtime. 2. Live migration is broken. Utterly. 3. Every release fixes so many things that it's really important to upgrade every time; however, only one release will likely be supported every Ubuntu LTS release, meaning you're either stuck with a really old (likely broken) version of nova, or you're stuck will a very likely unstable version of Ubuntu. This will be easier over time, when nova is more stable and has less bugs, but it's incredibly painful right now. That said, I feel OpenStack's strengths greatly outweigh its immatureness. I ran a private cloud at my last organization using a VMWare ESXi cluster. It was more mature, upgrades worked appropriately, live migration was solid, etc. I had (and still have) the choice to run VMWare for my current project and am extremely happy with my choice of OpenStack. The flexibility provided by the platform and my ability to contribute to its future make its immaturity a non-concern. Every release gets closer and closer to a stability point I'm comfortable with. This article isn't bad news. In fact, I'd say it shows that competitors see OpenStack as a fairly major threat. We should be celebrating this ;). - Ryan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity
+1000 I believe the nova team should make backporting essential bugs to a stable essex base and dealing with the upgrade issue the highest priority for the start (at least) of the Folsom cycle. We need people to deploy real systems using Essex. With regard to smooth upgrades, they won't happen if the issue is always punted to the end of a release cycle. The way to do this is to create a test very early in Folsom that demonstrates how a real large-scale style deployment can be upgraded to a new version containing no code changes. Any future change that breaks that test must be evaluated to compare the value of the change against whatever upgrade pain will be caused. In terms of real deployments, this issue scares me more than the fact that there are bugs. There will always be bugs. But we can't have it be tricky and risky to deploy the fixes. -David On 4/4/2012 2:30 PM, Tim Bell wrote: Essex is a key release in this respect. With the excellent work done by the developers, testers and packaging teams, OpenStack is much better positioned than with Diablo. As the work proceeds on Folsom, back porting critical bugs and planning for a smooth migration path for production sites will become factors in keeping the early adopters enthusiastic. These are the user stories that will drive the next wave of OpenStack growth as much as expanding the feature set. Tim Bell CERN ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity
Maybe it would be more interesting, instead of getting on the defensive to instead start asking what people think is broken or is immature and fix those areas. Push forward, get peoples feelings about it, and take it as constructive input. If people think its immature, ask for why and then fix those points... -Josh On 4/4/12 1:05 PM, Jay Payne lett...@gmail.com wrote: There are many projects rolled up into the thing called OpenStack. Nova is only one of them and is the one that most people are talking about when they say OpenStack. This does a huge disservice to the other projects especially Swift. It's very frustrating to see the other projects all painted with the Nova brush. On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 1:25 PM, Ryan Lane rl...@wikimedia.org wrote: According to the statement of this article from Gartner group http://blogs.gartner.com/lydia_leong/2012/04/03/citrix-cloudstack-openstack-and-the-war-for-open-source-clouds/ Openstack is a highly immature platform. But why? What's make Openstack so immature? Any comments on that? Thank you in advance :) I agree that it's an immature platform. That said, it's also a very young platform and isn't that to be expected? There's a number of things that need to be fixed before I'd ever recommend Nova's use in production: 1. There's no upgrade path currently. Upgrading requires fairly substantial downtime. 2. Live migration is broken. Utterly. 3. Every release fixes so many things that it's really important to upgrade every time; however, only one release will likely be supported every Ubuntu LTS release, meaning you're either stuck with a really old (likely broken) version of nova, or you're stuck will a very likely unstable version of Ubuntu. This will be easier over time, when nova is more stable and has less bugs, but it's incredibly painful right now. That said, I feel OpenStack's strengths greatly outweigh its immatureness. I ran a private cloud at my last organization using a VMWare ESXi cluster. It was more mature, upgrades worked appropriately, live migration was solid, etc. I had (and still have) the choice to run VMWare for my current project and am extremely happy with my choice of OpenStack. The flexibility provided by the platform and my ability to contribute to its future make its immaturity a non-concern. Every release gets closer and closer to a stability point I'm comfortable with. This article isn't bad news. In fact, I'd say it shows that competitors see OpenStack as a fairly major threat. We should be celebrating this ;). - Ryan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity
Another perspective worth considering is immaturity vs growth. Are there enough progresses being made? When problems are identified, are these solved swiftly and effectively? I think the people involved in the OpenStack community do and have done a great job in this regard, and should be praised rather than bashed. I personally think that talking about immaturity does not address the major question one should ask: assess if the platform fit the bill for whatever goals/requirements one has. So going back to Sébastien Han's question: what are you looking for in OpenStack? My 2c A. On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 9:48 PM, Joshua Harlow harlo...@yahoo-inc.com wrote: Maybe it would be more interesting, instead of getting on the defensive to instead start asking what people think is broken or is immature and fix those areas. Push forward, get peoples feelings about it, and take it as constructive input. If people think its immature, ask for why and then fix those points... -Josh On 4/4/12 1:05 PM, Jay Payne lett...@gmail.com wrote: There are many projects rolled up into the thing called OpenStack. Nova is only one of them and is the one that most people are talking about when they say OpenStack. This does a huge disservice to the other projects especially Swift. It's very frustrating to see the other projects all painted with the Nova brush. On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 1:25 PM, Ryan Lane rl...@wikimedia.org wrote: According to the statement of this article from Gartner group http://blogs.gartner.com/lydia_leong/2012/04/03/citrix-cloudstack-openstack-and-the-war-for-open-source-clouds/ Openstack is a highly immature platform. But why? What's make Openstack so immature? Any comments on that? Thank you in advance :) I agree that it's an immature platform. That said, it's also a very young platform and isn't that to be expected? There's a number of things that need to be fixed before I'd ever recommend Nova's use in production: 1. There's no upgrade path currently. Upgrading requires fairly substantial downtime. 2. Live migration is broken. Utterly. 3. Every release fixes so many things that it's really important to upgrade every time; however, only one release will likely be supported every Ubuntu LTS release, meaning you're either stuck with a really old (likely broken) version of nova, or you're stuck will a very likely unstable version of Ubuntu. This will be easier over time, when nova is more stable and has less bugs, but it's incredibly painful right now. That said, I feel OpenStack's strengths greatly outweigh its immatureness. I ran a private cloud at my last organization using a VMWare ESXi cluster. It was more mature, upgrades worked appropriately, live migration was solid, etc. I had (and still have) the choice to run VMWare for my current project and am extremely happy with my choice of OpenStack. The flexibility provided by the platform and my ability to contribute to its future make its immaturity a non-concern. Every release gets closer and closer to a stability point I'm comfortable with. This article isn't bad news. In fact, I'd say it shows that competitors see OpenStack as a fairly major threat. We should be celebrating this ;). - Ryan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
