Re: [openstack-dev] [Neutron] per-agent/driver/plugin requirements

2015-02-20 Thread Ihar Hrachyshka
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Hash: SHA1

On 02/18/2015 08:45 PM, Armando M. wrote:
 
 
 On 17 February 2015 at 22:00, YAMAMOTO Takashi
 yamam...@valinux.co.jp mailto:yamam...@valinux.co.jp wrote:
 
 hi,
 
 i want to add an extra requirement specific to OVS-agent. (namely,
 I want to add ryu for ovs-ofctl-to-python blueprint. [1] but the
 question is not specific to the blueprint.) to avoid messing
 deployments without OVS-agent, such a requirement should be
 per-agent/driver/plugin/etc.  however, there currently seems no
 standard mechanism for such a requirement.
 
 some ideas:
 
 a. don't bother to make it per-agent. add it to neutron's
 requirements. (and global-requirement) simple, but this would make
 non-ovs plugin users unhappy.
 
 b. make devstack look at per-agent extra requirements file in 
 neutron tree. eg. neutron/plugins/$Q_AGENT/requirements.txt
 
 c. move OVS agent to a separate repository, just like other 
 after-decomposition vendor plugins.  and use requirements.txt
 there. for longer term, this might be a way to go.  but i don't
 want to block my work until it happens.
 
 d. follow the way how openvswitch is installed by devstack. a
 downside: we can't give a jenkins run for a patch which introduces 
 an extra requirement.  (like my patch for the mentioned blueprint 
 [2])
 
 i think b. is the most reasonable choice, at least for short/mid
 term.
 
 any comments/thoughts?
 
 
 One thing that I want to ensure we are clear on is about the
 agent's OpenFlow communication strategy going forward, because that
 determines how we make a decision based on the options you have
 outlined: do we enforce the use of ryu while ovs-ofctl goes away
 from day 0? Or do we provide an 'opt-in' type of approach where
 users can explicitly choose if/when to adopt ryu in favor of
 ovs-ofctl? The latter means that we'll keep both solutions for a
 reasonable amount of time to smooth the transition process.
 
 If we adopt the former (i.e. ryu goes in, ovs-ofctl goes out),
 then option a) makes sense to me, but I am not sure how happy
 deployers, and packagers are going to be welcoming this approach.
 There's already too much going on in Kilo right now :)

Even if we leave both options available, packagers wouldn't avoid
shipping ryu, for if the option is present in the code and can be
controlled from config files, then we should assume some users will
switch implementations, and we don't want to break them.

 
 If we adopt the latter, then I think it's desirable to have two
 separate configurations with which we test the agent. This means
 that we'll have a new job (besides the existing ones) that runs the
 agent with ryu instead of ovs-ofctl. This means that option d) is
 the viable one, where DevStack will have to install the dependency
 based on some configuration variable that is determined by the
 openstack-infra project definition.
 
 Thoughts?
 
 Cheers, Armando
 
 
 
 YAMAMOTO Takashi
 
 [1]
 https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/ovs-ofctl-to-python 
 [2] https://review.openstack.org/#/c/153946/
 
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Re: [openstack-dev] [Neutron] per-agent/driver/plugin requirements

2015-02-18 Thread Armando M.
On 17 February 2015 at 22:00, YAMAMOTO Takashi yamam...@valinux.co.jp
wrote:

 hi,

 i want to add an extra requirement specific to OVS-agent.
 (namely, I want to add ryu for ovs-ofctl-to-python blueprint. [1]
 but the question is not specific to the blueprint.)
 to avoid messing deployments without OVS-agent, such a requirement
 should be per-agent/driver/plugin/etc.  however, there currently
 seems no standard mechanism for such a requirement.

 some ideas:

 a. don't bother to make it per-agent.
add it to neutron's requirements. (and global-requirement)
simple, but this would make non-ovs plugin users unhappy.

 b. make devstack look at per-agent extra requirements file in neutron tree.
eg. neutron/plugins/$Q_AGENT/requirements.txt

 c. move OVS agent to a separate repository, just like other
after-decomposition vendor plugins.  and use requirements.txt there.
for longer term, this might be a way to go.  but i don't want to
block my work until it happens.

 d. follow the way how openvswitch is installed by devstack.
a downside: we can't give a jenkins run for a patch which introduces
an extra requirement.  (like my patch for the mentioned blueprint [2])

 i think b. is the most reasonable choice, at least for short/mid term.

 any comments/thoughts?


One thing that I want to ensure we are clear on is about the agent's
OpenFlow communication strategy going forward, because that determines how
we make a decision based on the options you have outlined: do we enforce
the use of ryu while ovs-ofctl goes away from day 0? Or do we provide an
'opt-in' type of approach where users can explicitly choose if/when to
adopt ryu in favor of ovs-ofctl? The latter means that we'll keep both
solutions for a reasonable amount of time to smooth the transition process.

If we adopt the former (i.e. ryu goes in, ovs-ofctl goes out), then option
a) makes sense to me, but I am not sure how happy deployers, and packagers
are going to be welcoming this approach. There's already too much going on
in Kilo right now :)

If we adopt the latter, then I think it's desirable to have two separate
configurations with which we test the agent. This means that we'll have a
new job (besides the existing ones) that runs the agent with ryu instead of
ovs-ofctl. This means that option d) is the viable one, where DevStack will
have to install the dependency based on some configuration variable that is
determined by the openstack-infra project definition.

Thoughts?

Cheers,
Armando



 YAMAMOTO Takashi

 [1] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/ovs-ofctl-to-python
 [2] https://review.openstack.org/#/c/153946/

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Re: [openstack-dev] [Neutron] per-agent/driver/plugin requirements

2015-02-18 Thread YAMAMOTO Takashi
 On 17 February 2015 at 22:00, YAMAMOTO Takashi yamam...@valinux.co.jp
 wrote:
 
 hi,

 i want to add an extra requirement specific to OVS-agent.
 (namely, I want to add ryu for ovs-ofctl-to-python blueprint. [1]
 but the question is not specific to the blueprint.)
 to avoid messing deployments without OVS-agent, such a requirement
 should be per-agent/driver/plugin/etc.  however, there currently
 seems no standard mechanism for such a requirement.

 some ideas:

 a. don't bother to make it per-agent.
add it to neutron's requirements. (and global-requirement)
simple, but this would make non-ovs plugin users unhappy.

 b. make devstack look at per-agent extra requirements file in neutron tree.
eg. neutron/plugins/$Q_AGENT/requirements.txt

 c. move OVS agent to a separate repository, just like other
after-decomposition vendor plugins.  and use requirements.txt there.
for longer term, this might be a way to go.  but i don't want to
block my work until it happens.

 d. follow the way how openvswitch is installed by devstack.
a downside: we can't give a jenkins run for a patch which introduces
an extra requirement.  (like my patch for the mentioned blueprint [2])

 i think b. is the most reasonable choice, at least for short/mid term.

 any comments/thoughts?

 
 One thing that I want to ensure we are clear on is about the agent's
 OpenFlow communication strategy going forward, because that determines how
 we make a decision based on the options you have outlined: do we enforce
 the use of ryu while ovs-ofctl goes away from day 0? Or do we provide an
 'opt-in' type of approach where users can explicitly choose if/when to
 adopt ryu in favor of ovs-ofctl? The latter means that we'll keep both
 solutions for a reasonable amount of time to smooth the transition process.

my plan is the former.

the latter would need to invent a backend-neutral api which covers
large enough subset of openflow and nicira extensions.
my impression is that it isn't a reasonable amount of work for the benefit.

 
 If we adopt the former (i.e. ryu goes in, ovs-ofctl goes out), then option
 a) makes sense to me, but I am not sure how happy deployers, and packagers
 are going to be welcoming this approach. There's already too much going on
 in Kilo right now :)

sure, there's always been too much things to do.

 
 If we adopt the latter, then I think it's desirable to have two separate
 configurations with which we test the agent. This means that we'll have a
 new job (besides the existing ones) that runs the agent with ryu instead of
 ovs-ofctl. This means that option d) is the viable one, where DevStack will
 have to install the dependency based on some configuration variable that is
 determined by the openstack-infra project definition.

i tend to think the latter is too much.  but if we decide to go
the route, i agree it's reasonable to have separate jobs.

either ways, i need to write working code first.  so i want to be
able to try jenkins runs.  adding ryu to global-requirements [3]
would allow it, while it doesn't hurt anything as far as i know.
(i'm not familiar with infra stuff though.  please correct me if wrong.)

[3] https://review.openstack.org/#/c/154354/

YAMAMOTO Takashi

 
 Thoughts?
 
 Cheers,
 Armando
 
 

 YAMAMOTO Takashi

 [1] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/ovs-ofctl-to-python
 [2] https://review.openstack.org/#/c/153946/

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Re: [openstack-dev] [Neutron] per-agent/driver/plugin requirements

2015-02-18 Thread Ihar Hrachyshka
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Hash: SHA1

On 02/18/2015 08:14 AM, YAMAMOTO Takashi wrote:
 hi,
 
 On Wednesday, 18 de February de 2015 at 07:00,
 yamam...@valinux.co.jp wrote:
 hi,
 
 i want to add an extra requirement specific to OVS-agent. 
 (namely, I want to add ryu for ovs-ofctl-to-python blueprint.
 [1] but the question is not specific to the blueprint.) to
 avoid messing deployments without OVS-agent, such a
 requirement should be per-agent/driver/plugin/etc. however,
 there currently seems no standard mechanism for such a
 requirement.
 
 
 
 
 Awesome, I was thinking of the same a few days ago, we make lots 
 and lots of calls to ovs-ofctl, and we will do more if we change
 to security groups/routers in OF, if that proves to be efficient,
 and we get CT.
 
 CT?
 
 
 After this change, what would be the differences of ofagent to
 ovs-agent ?
 
 I guess OVS set’s rules in advance, while ofagent works as a
 normal OF controller?
 
 the basic architecture will be same.
 
 actually it was suggested to merge two agents during spec review. i
 think it's a good idea for longer term.  (but unlikely for kilo)
 
 
 
 
 some ideas:
 
 a. don't bother to make it per-agent. add it to neutron's
 requirements. (and global-requirement) simple, but this would
 make non-ovs plugin users unhappy.
 
 I would simply go with a, what’s the ryu’s internal requirement
 list? is it big?
 
 no additional requirements as far as we use only openflow part of
 ryu.

The I suggest to just go with a. If you want to make distributions
happier, just make sure you mark appropriate entries in
requirements.txt with some metadata to suggest its an ovs plugin only
dependency.

 
 
 
 b. make devstack look at per-agent extra requirements file in
 neutron tree. eg. neutron/plugins/$Q_AGENT/requirements.txt
 
 IMHO that would make distribution work a bit harder because we 
 may need to process new requirement files, but my answer could
 depend on what I asked for a.
 
 probably. i guess distributors can speak up.

I am packaging neutron for RDO, and I speak up. I don't think
maintaining multiple requirements files is a good option, for it will
require updating packaging tools not to miss updates for the files.
Also, how would you make sure those dependencies stay consistent with
openstack/requirements repo? Do you plan to update tooling around the
bot that proposes updates to requirements.txt files in each project?

I think this option requires too much from those who will implement it
in all the tools around, and does not seem to justify itself in
comparison with trivial option a.

 
 
 c. move OVS agent to a separate repository, just like other 
 after-decomposition vendor plugins. and use requirements.txt
 there. for longer term, this might be a way to go. but i don't
 want to block my work until it happens.
 

That's a proper direction long term, but as it was already suggested
here, it's not going to happen shortly, so no need to block your work
on it.

 
 
 We’re not ready for that yet, as co-gating has proven as a bad
 strategy and we need to keep the reference implementation working
 for tests.
 
 i agree that it will not likely be ready in near future.
 
 YAMAMOTO Takashi
 
 
 d. follow the way how openvswitch is installed by devstack. a
 downside: we can't give a jenkins run for a patch which
 introduces an extra requirement. (like my patch for the
 mentioned blueprint [2])
 
 i think b. is the most reasonable choice, at least for
 short/mid term.
 
 any comments/thoughts?
 
 YAMAMOTO Takashi
 
 [1]
 https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/ovs-ofctl-to-python

 
[2] https://review.openstack.org/#/c/153946/
 
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Re: [openstack-dev] [Neutron] per-agent/driver/plugin requirements

2015-02-17 Thread YAMAMOTO Takashi
hi,

 On Wednesday, 18 de February de 2015 at 07:00, yamam...@valinux.co.jp wrote:
 hi,
  
 i want to add an extra requirement specific to OVS-agent.
 (namely, I want to add ryu for ovs-ofctl-to-python blueprint. [1]
 but the question is not specific to the blueprint.)
 to avoid messing deployments without OVS-agent, such a requirement
 should be per-agent/driver/plugin/etc. however, there currently
 seems no standard mechanism for such a requirement.
  
  
 
 
 Awesome, I was thinking of the same a few days ago, we make lots
 and lots of calls to ovs-ofctl, and we will do more if we change to
 security groups/routers in OF, if that proves to be efficient, and we
 get CT.

CT?

 
 After this change, what would be the differences of ofagent to ovs-agent ?  
 
 I guess OVS set’s rules in advance, while ofagent works as a normal
 OF controller?

the basic architecture will be same.

actually it was suggested to merge two agents during spec review.
i think it's a good idea for longer term.  (but unlikely for kilo)

   
   
  
 some ideas:
  
 a. don't bother to make it per-agent.
 add it to neutron's requirements. (and global-requirement)
 simple, but this would make non-ovs plugin users unhappy.
  
 I would simply go with a, what’s the ryu’s internal requirement list? is
 it big?

no additional requirements as far as we use only openflow part of ryu.

   
  
 b. make devstack look at per-agent extra requirements file in neutron tree.
 eg. neutron/plugins/$Q_AGENT/requirements.txt
  
 IMHO that would make distribution work a bit harder because we
 may need to process new requirement files, but my answer could depend
 on what I asked for a.  

probably.
i guess distributors can speak up.

  
 c. move OVS agent to a separate repository, just like other
 after-decomposition vendor plugins. and use requirements.txt there.
 for longer term, this might be a way to go. but i don't want to
 block my work until it happens.
  
  
 
 We’re not ready for that yet, as co-gating has proven as a bad strategy
 and we need to keep the reference implementation working for tests.  

i agree that it will not likely be ready in near future.

YAMAMOTO Takashi

  
 d. follow the way how openvswitch is installed by devstack.
 a downside: we can't give a jenkins run for a patch which introduces
 an extra requirement. (like my patch for the mentioned blueprint [2])
  
 i think b. is the most reasonable choice, at least for short/mid term.
  
 any comments/thoughts?
  
 YAMAMOTO Takashi
  
 [1] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/ovs-ofctl-to-python
 [2] https://review.openstack.org/#/c/153946/
  
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Re: [openstack-dev] [Neutron] per-agent/driver/plugin requirements

2015-02-17 Thread Miguel Ángel Ajo


Miguel Ángel Ajo


On Wednesday, 18 de February de 2015 at 08:14, yamam...@valinux.co.jp wrote:

 hi,
  
  On Wednesday, 18 de February de 2015 at 07:00, yamam...@valinux.co.jp 
  (mailto:yamam...@valinux.co.jp) wrote:
   hi,

   i want to add an extra requirement specific to OVS-agent.
   (namely, I want to add ryu for ovs-ofctl-to-python blueprint. [1]
   but the question is not specific to the blueprint.)
   to avoid messing deployments without OVS-agent, such a requirement
   should be per-agent/driver/plugin/etc. however, there currently
   seems no standard mechanism for such a requirement.



   
   
   
  Awesome, I was thinking of the same a few days ago, we make lots
  and lots of calls to ovs-ofctl, and we will do more if we change to
  security groups/routers in OF, if that proves to be efficient, and we
  get CT.
   
  
  
 CT?

Connection tracking in OVS. At that point we could do NAT/stateful
firewalling, etc  
  
   
  After this change, what would be the differences of ofagent to ovs-agent ?  
   
  I guess OVS set’s rules in advance, while ofagent works as a normal
  OF controller?
   
  
  
 the basic architecture will be same.
  
 actually it was suggested to merge two agents during spec review.
 i think it's a good idea for longer term. (but unlikely for kilo)
  
  


If that’s the case, I would love to see both evaluated side to side,
and make a community decision on that.  
  
   some ideas:

   a. don't bother to make it per-agent.
   add it to neutron's requirements. (and global-requirement)
   simple, but this would make non-ovs plugin users unhappy.


   
  I would simply go with a, what’s the ryu’s internal requirement list? is
  it big?
   
  
  
 no additional requirements as far as we use only openflow part of ryu.

Then IMHO I don’t believe this is a big deal as for any other dependency.  
  
   b. make devstack look at per-agent extra requirements file in neutron 
   tree.
   eg. neutron/plugins/$Q_AGENT/requirements.txt


   
  IMHO that would make distribution work a bit harder because we
  may need to process new requirement files, but my answer could depend
  on what I asked for a.  
   
  
  
 probably.
 i guess distributors can speak up.
  
  

I speak up, I prefer a. But looping Ihar as he’s doing the majority of
work related to neutron distribution in RH/RDO.
  
  
   c. move OVS agent to a separate repository, just like other
   after-decomposition vendor plugins. and use requirements.txt there.
   for longer term, this might be a way to go. but i don't want to
   block my work until it happens.



   
   
  We’re not ready for that yet, as co-gating has proven as a bad strategy
  and we need to keep the reference implementation working for tests.  
   
  
  
 i agree that it will not likely be ready in near future.
  
 YAMAMOTO Takashi
  
   d. follow the way how openvswitch is installed by devstack.
   a downside: we can't give a jenkins run for a patch which introduces
   an extra requirement. (like my patch for the mentioned blueprint [2])

   i think b. is the most reasonable choice, at least for short/mid term.

   any comments/thoughts?

   YAMAMOTO Takashi

   [1] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/ovs-ofctl-to-python
   [2] https://review.openstack.org/#/c/153946/

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Re: [openstack-dev] [Neutron] per-agent/driver/plugin requirements

2015-02-17 Thread Miguel Ángel Ajo
On Wednesday, 18 de February de 2015 at 07:00, yamam...@valinux.co.jp wrote:
 hi,
  
 i want to add an extra requirement specific to OVS-agent.
 (namely, I want to add ryu for ovs-ofctl-to-python blueprint. [1]
 but the question is not specific to the blueprint.)
 to avoid messing deployments without OVS-agent, such a requirement
 should be per-agent/driver/plugin/etc. however, there currently
 seems no standard mechanism for such a requirement.
  
  


Awesome, I was thinking of the same a few days ago, we make lots
and lots of calls to ovs-ofctl, and we will do more if we change to
security groups/routers in OF, if that proves to be efficient, and we
get CT.

After this change, what would be the differences of ofagent to ovs-agent ?  

I guess OVS set’s rules in advance, while ofagent works as a normal
OF controller?
  
  
  
 some ideas:
  
 a. don't bother to make it per-agent.
 add it to neutron's requirements. (and global-requirement)
 simple, but this would make non-ovs plugin users unhappy.
  
I would simply go with a, what’s the ryu’s internal requirement list? is
it big?
  
  
 b. make devstack look at per-agent extra requirements file in neutron tree.
 eg. neutron/plugins/$Q_AGENT/requirements.txt
  
IMHO that would make distribution work a bit harder because we
may need to process new requirement files, but my answer could depend
on what I asked for a.  
  
 c. move OVS agent to a separate repository, just like other
 after-decomposition vendor plugins. and use requirements.txt there.
 for longer term, this might be a way to go. but i don't want to
 block my work until it happens.
  
  

We’re not ready for that yet, as co-gating has proven as a bad strategy
and we need to keep the reference implementation working for tests.  
  
 d. follow the way how openvswitch is installed by devstack.
 a downside: we can't give a jenkins run for a patch which introduces
 an extra requirement. (like my patch for the mentioned blueprint [2])
  
 i think b. is the most reasonable choice, at least for short/mid term.
  
 any comments/thoughts?
  
 YAMAMOTO Takashi
  
 [1] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/ovs-ofctl-to-python
 [2] https://review.openstack.org/#/c/153946/
  
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[openstack-dev] [Neutron] per-agent/driver/plugin requirements

2015-02-17 Thread YAMAMOTO Takashi
hi,

i want to add an extra requirement specific to OVS-agent.
(namely, I want to add ryu for ovs-ofctl-to-python blueprint. [1]
but the question is not specific to the blueprint.)
to avoid messing deployments without OVS-agent, such a requirement
should be per-agent/driver/plugin/etc.  however, there currently
seems no standard mechanism for such a requirement.

some ideas:

a. don't bother to make it per-agent.
   add it to neutron's requirements. (and global-requirement)
   simple, but this would make non-ovs plugin users unhappy.

b. make devstack look at per-agent extra requirements file in neutron tree.
   eg. neutron/plugins/$Q_AGENT/requirements.txt

c. move OVS agent to a separate repository, just like other
   after-decomposition vendor plugins.  and use requirements.txt there.
   for longer term, this might be a way to go.  but i don't want to
   block my work until it happens.

d. follow the way how openvswitch is installed by devstack.
   a downside: we can't give a jenkins run for a patch which introduces
   an extra requirement.  (like my patch for the mentioned blueprint [2])

i think b. is the most reasonable choice, at least for short/mid term.

any comments/thoughts?

YAMAMOTO Takashi

[1] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/ovs-ofctl-to-python
[2] https://review.openstack.org/#/c/153946/

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