Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework

2014-12-30 Thread Sebastian Kalinowski
Hello all, What is the current situation with choosing web framework? Was there any progress in the topic? I would like to avoid forgetting about it. 2014-12-08 15:47 GMT+01:00 Ryan Petrello ryan.petre...@dreamhost.com: Feel free to ask any questions you have in #pecanpy on IRC; I can answer

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework

2014-12-30 Thread Nikolay Markov
Hi Sebastian, Nobody is forgetting this topic, especially me :) We're going to dedicate an engineer to do some research on topic based on Ryan's comments and my old pull request on Nailgun with Pecan. The only thing is that it's not very high priority topic in our roadmap. Don't worry, I'm sure

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework

2014-12-08 Thread Sebastian Kalinowski
2014-12-04 14:01 GMT+01:00 Igor Kalnitsky ikalnit...@mirantis.com: Ok, guys, It became obvious that most of us either vote for Pecan or abstain from voting. Yes, and it's been 4 days since last message in this thread and no objections, so it seems that Pecan in now our framework-of-choice

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework

2014-12-08 Thread Nikolay Markov
Yes, and it's been 4 days since last message in this thread and no objections, so it seems that Pecan in now our framework-of-choice for Nailgun and future apps/projects. We still need some research to do about technical issues and how easy we can move to Pecan. Thanks to Ryan, we now have

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework

2014-12-08 Thread Ryan Petrello
Feel free to ask any questions you have in #pecanpy on IRC; I can answer a lot more quickly than researching docs, and if you have a special need, I can usually accommodate with changes to Pecan (I've done so with several OpenStack projects in the past). On 12/08/14 02:10 PM, Nikolay Markov

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework

2014-12-04 Thread Igor Kalnitsky
To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework I didn't participate in that discussion, but here are topics on Flask cons from your link. I added some comments. - Cons - db transactions a little trickier to manage

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework

2014-12-04 Thread Roman Prykhodchenko
To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework I didn't participate in that discussion, but here are topics on Flask cons from your link. I added some comments. - Cons - db transactions a little trickier

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework

2014-12-04 Thread Nikolay Markov
...@mirantis.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2014 9:00 AM To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework I didn't participate in that discussion, but here are topics on Flask cons from your link. I added some comments

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework

2014-12-04 Thread Ryan Petrello
community, con Flask, not. Kevin From: Nikolay Markov [nmar...@mirantis.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2014 9:00 AM To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework

2014-12-03 Thread Alexander Kislitsky
We had used Flask in the fuel-stats. It was easy and pleasant and all project requirements was satisfied. And I saw difficulties and workarounds with Pecan, when Nick integrated it into Nailgun. So +1 for Flask. On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 11:00 PM, Nikolay Markov nmar...@mirantis.com wrote:

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework

2014-12-03 Thread Ivan Kliuk
Well, I think if the general direction is to make Fuel using OpenStack tools and libraries as much as it's possible, that makes sense to use Pecan. Otherwise I'd prefer to swap web.py with Flask. Sincerely yours, Ivan Kliuk On 12/2/14 16:55, Igor Kalnitsky wrote: Hi, Sebastian, Thank you

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework

2014-12-03 Thread Przemyslaw Kaminski
The only useful paradigm to write in Flask is MethodView's for me [1] because decorators seem hard to refactor for large projects. Please look at adding URLs -- one has to additionally specify methods to match those from the MethodView -- this is code duplication and looks ugly. It seems

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework

2014-12-03 Thread Kamil Sambor
Additionaly to what Przemek wrote, also Pecan is released more often, IMHO documentation is better written, and described a lot of possibilities of modification, also as Lukasz wrote in previous thread that Pecan is used in openstack. So I'm also for Pecan Best regards, Kamil S. On Wed, Dec 3,

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework

2014-12-03 Thread Igor Kalnitsky
I don't like that Flask uses a global request object [3]. Przemyslaw, actually Pecan does use global objects too. BTW, what's wrong with global objects? They are thread-safe in both Pecan and Flask. IMHO documentation is better written, and described a lot of possibilities of modification I

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework

2014-12-03 Thread Sebastian Kalinowski
2014-12-03 13:47 GMT+01:00 Igor Kalnitsky ikalnit...@mirantis.com: I don't like that Flask uses a global request object [3]. Przemyslaw, actually Pecan does use global objects too. BTW, what's wrong with global objects? They are thread-safe in both Pecan and Flask. To be fair, Pecan could

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework

2014-12-03 Thread Przemyslaw Kaminski
Yeah, didn't notice that. Honestly, I'd prefer both to be accessible as instance attributes just like in [1] but it's more of taste I guess. [1] http://tornado.readthedocs.org/en/latest/web.html#tornado.web.RequestHandler.request P. On 12/03/2014 02:03 PM, Sebastian Kalinowski wrote:

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework

2014-12-03 Thread Nikolay Markov
Dear colleagues, We surely may take into account the beauty of the code in both cases (as for me, Pecan loses here, too) and argue about global objects and stuff, but I'm trying to look at amount of men and time we need to move to one of these frameworks. I wouldn't say our API is badly

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework

2014-12-03 Thread Sebastian Kalinowski
I never used Flask and Pecan personally so I can only rely from what I saw in this thread and in both projects docs. I don't have strong opinion, just want to share some thoughts. I think that as a part of OpenStack community we should stick with Pecan and because of the same reason we can have a

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework

2014-12-03 Thread Roman Prykhodchenko
I don’t have an opinion for now but do have some thoughts instead. We use Pecan in Ironic. I could say that it’s pretty nice when one needs to make something simple but requires some manual job to be done in more or less sophisticated cases. On the other hand we have that the Pecan team is quire

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework

2014-12-03 Thread Jay Pipes
On 12/03/2014 09:35 AM, Sebastian Kalinowski wrote: I think that as a part of OpenStack community we should stick with Pecan and because of the same reason we can have a bigger impact how future versions of Pecan will look. Yes, this. ++ -jay ___

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework

2014-12-03 Thread Nikolay Markov
It would be great to look at some obvious points where Pecan is better than Flask despite of the fact that it's used by the community. I still don't see a single and I don't think the principle jump from the cliff if everyone does works well in such cases. On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 5:53 PM, Jay

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework

2014-12-03 Thread Roman Prykhodchenko
Being able to make some impact on Pecan is an advantage for sure. But there are other aspects in choosing a web framework and I’d rather discuss them. Let’s not think about what is used in other OpenStack projects for a moment and discuss technical details. On 03 Dec 2014, at 15:53, Jay Pipes

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework

2014-12-03 Thread Jay Pipes
On 12/03/2014 10:16 AM, Nikolay Markov wrote: It would be great to look at some obvious points where Pecan is better than Flask despite of the fact that it's used by the community. I still don't see a single and I don't think the principle jump from the cliff if everyone does works well in such

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework

2014-12-03 Thread Nikolay Markov
However, the OpenStack community is also about a shared set of tools, development methodologies, and common perspectives. I completely agree with you, Jay, but the same principle may be applied much wider. Why Openstack Community decided to use its own unstable project instead of existing

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework

2014-12-03 Thread Nikolay Markov
A month or two ago I started gathering differencies between Flask and Pecan, let's take a look at technical details. Maybe there are some things that are already fixed in current versions of Pecan, feel free to comment.

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework

2014-12-03 Thread Jay Pipes
On 12/03/2014 10:53 AM, Nikolay Markov wrote: However, the OpenStack community is also about a shared set of tools, development methodologies, and common perspectives. I completely agree with you, Jay, but the same principle may be applied much wider. Why Openstack Community decided to use its

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework

2014-12-03 Thread Nikolay Markov
I didn't participate in that discussion, but here are topics on Flask cons from your link. I added some comments. - Cons - db transactions a little trickier to manage, but possible # what is trickier? Flask uses pure SQLalchemy or a very thin wrapper - JSON built-in but not XML # the

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework

2014-12-03 Thread Fox, Kevin M
...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2014 7:32 AM To: openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework On 12/03/2014 10:16 AM, Nikolay Markov wrote: It would be great to look at some obvious points where Pecan is better than Flask despite

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework

2014-12-03 Thread Ryan Petrello
I've left some comments/corrections in this document re: pecan and what is supports. On 12/03/14 07:58 PM, Nikolay Markov wrote: A month or two ago I started gathering differencies between Flask and Pecan, let's take a look at technical details. Maybe there are some things that are already

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework

2014-12-03 Thread Fox, Kevin M
community, con Flask, not. Kevin From: Nikolay Markov [nmar...@mirantis.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2014 9:00 AM To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework I didn't participate

[openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework

2014-12-02 Thread Sebastian Kalinowski
Hi all, Some time ago we had a discussion about moving Nailgun to new web framework [1]. There was comparison [2] of two possible options: Pecan [3] and Flask [4]. We came to conclusion that we need to move Nailgun on some alive web framework instead of web.py [5] (some of the reasons: [6]) but

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework

2014-12-02 Thread Igor Kalnitsky
Hi, Sebastian, Thank you for raising this topic again. Yes, indeed, we need to move out from web.py as soon as possible and there are a lot of reasons why we should do it. But this topic is not about Why, this topic is about Flask or Pecan. Well, currently Fuel uses both of this frameworks: *

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework

2014-12-02 Thread Ryan Brown
On 12/02/2014 09:55 AM, Igor Kalnitsky wrote: Hi, Sebastian, Thank you for raising this topic again. [snip] Personally, I'd like to use Flask instead of Pecan, because first one is more production-ready tool and I like its design. But I believe this should be resolved by voting.

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework

2014-12-02 Thread Nikolay Markov
Hello all, I actually tried to use Pecan and even created a couple of PoCs, but there due to historical reasons of how our API is organized it will take much more time to implement all workarounds we need to issues Pecan doesn't solve out of the box, like working with non-RESTful URLs, reverse

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework

2014-12-02 Thread Michael Krotscheck
This sounds more like you need to pay off technical debt and clean up your API. Michael On Tue Dec 02 2014 at 10:58:43 AM Nikolay Markov nmar...@mirantis.com wrote: Hello all, I actually tried to use Pecan and even created a couple of PoCs, but there due to historical reasons of how our API

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel][Nailgun] Web framework

2014-12-02 Thread Nikolay Markov
Michael, we already solved all issues I described, and I just don't want to solve them once again after moving to another framework. Also, I think, nothing of these wishes contradicts with good API design. On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 10:49 PM, Michael Krotscheck krotsch...@gmail.com wrote: This